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08-12-2008, 06:11 PM
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| In The Mouth Of Madness War Room Member  Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: England
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Swivel your eyes to the left...what does it say there mmmm? Contrary to popular belief, England is not yet a State of the US of A. Made a bit of a tit of yourself there, matey.  Quote:
I emphasized the "Left" credentials of the articles purely so you couldn't trot out the "Big Oil" or "right wing corporate" dismissal. There are some excellent, thought provoking articles out there from the "Right" (not as many as from the Left, but they are there) however I have enough experience at this to know they'll be dismissed out of hand. Some dude has just got to have had a cup of coffee with someone who once worked for Enron and the baby is thrown out with the bath water. But even if Gore and the IPCC are scamming (they shared the Nobel for a reason, you cannot separate the two) what about "the science"? After all, that's supposedly what it's all about. Quote:
Ain't just the nuke industry they've got back on track thanks to AGW hysteria, (and the Head of the IPCC Rajendra Pachauri has himself sat on the board of an Oil Company. - not found which one yet, but I will - he's been busy trying to get the Indian Government to sign nuclear plant contracts), they are in control of the biofuels juggernaut "the biggest colonial land grab ever". The poverty, deaths, the environmental destruction.....they couldn't have done it without you guys. Way to go! The Clean Energy Scam - TIME Most scientists are idiots. They will never invent or discover anything, they merely play around with the discoveries of others. When a new theory comes along they will fight tooth and nail to prevent it's acceptance, probably because it makes them face their own ignorance. Eventually they are forced to change their minds - or die off and let the younger generation through - but they act as if they never doubted in the first place. Scientists are no different from Joe Public in that they can be emotionally manipulated. They also work on assumptions just like the rest of us. Doctors hand out poison pills because their "authorities" like the FDA, BMA or whatever, instruct them to. They assume - usually erroneously - that all those authorities are trustworthy and "the scientific method" has been adhered to. Other scientific fields are no different. "One could not be a successful scientist without realizing that, in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers and mothers of scientists, a goodly number of scientists are not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid." ~ James Watson, Nobel Winner and co-discoverer of DNA An eminent Israeli scientist in atmopspheric physics taught his students that AGW was the cause of the climate problems for years. One day he actually looked at the research and was all "oops". He no longer teaches it, but it is purely because he has clout that he hasn't lost his tenure. You want grants to do your research, you better be pushing the AGW line. Quote:
"Claude Allegre, one of France's leading socialists and among her most celebrated scientists, was among the first to sound the alarm about the dangers of global warming....... In the 1980s and early 1990s, when concern about global warming was in its infancy, little was known about the mechanics of how it could occur, or the consequences that could befall us. Since then, governments throughout the western world and bodies such as the United Nations Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change have commissioned billions of dollars worth of research by thousands of scientists. With a wealth of data now in, Dr. Allegre has recanted his views. To his surprise, the many climate models and studies failed dismally in establishing a man-made cause of catastrophic global warming. Meanwhile, increasing evidence indicates that most of the warming comes of natural phenomena. Dr. Allegre now sees global warming as over-hyped and an environmental concern of second rank...... Dr. Allegre's skepticism is noteworthy in several respects. For one, he is an exalted member of France's political establishment, a friend of former Socialist president Lionel Jospin, and, from 1997 to 2000, his minister of education, research and technology, charged with improving the quality of government research through closer co-operation with France's educational institutions. For another, Dr. Allegre has the highest environmental credentials. The author of early environmental books, he fought successful battles to protect the ozone layer from CFCs and public health from lead pollution. His break with scientific dogma over global warming came at a personal cost: Colleagues in both the governmental and environmental spheres were aghast that he could publicly question the science behind climate change. But Dr. Allegre had allegiances to more than his socialist and environmental colleagues. He is, above all, a scientist of the first order, the architect of isotope geodynamics, which showed that the atmosphere was primarily formed early in the history of the Earth, and the geochemical modeller of the early solar system. Because of his path-breaking cosmochemical research, NASA asked Dr. Allegre to participate in the Apollo lunar program, where he helped determine the age of the Moon. Matching his scientific accomplishments in the cosmos are his accomplishments at home: Dr. Allegre is perhaps best known for his research on the structural and geochemical evolution of the Earth's crust and the creation of its mountains, explaining both the title of his article in l' Express and his revulsion at the nihilistic nature of the climate research debate. Full article Allegre's second thoughts "You're a respected scientist, one of the best in your field. So respected, in fact, that when the United Nations decided to study the relationship between hurricanes and global warming for the largest scientific endeavour in its history -- its International Panel on Climate Change -- it called upon you and your expertise. You are Christopher Landsea of the Atlantic Oceanographic & Meteorological Laboratory. You were a contributing author for the UN's second International Panel on Climate Change in 1995, writing the sections on observed changes in tropical cyclones around the world. Then the IPCC called on you as a contributing author once more, for its "Third Assessment Report" in 2001. And you were invited to participate yet again, when the IPCC called on you to be an author in the "Fourth Assessment Report." This report would specifically focus on Atlantic hurricanes, your specialty, and be published by the IPCC in 2007. Then something went horribly wrong. Within days of this last invitation, in October, 2004, you discovered that the IPCC's Kevin Trenberth -- the very person who had invited you -- was participating in a press conference. The title of the press conference perplexed you: "Experts to warn global warming likely to continue spurring more outbreaks of intense hurricane activity." This was some kind of mistake, you were certain. You had not done any work that substantiated this claim. Nobody had. As perplexing, none of the participants in that press conference were known for their hurricane expertise. In fact, to your knowledge, none had performed any research at all on hurricane variability, the subject of the press conference. Neither were they reporting on any new work in the field. All previous and current research in the area of hurricane variability, you knew, showed no reliable upward trend in the frequency or intensity of hurricanes. Not in the Atlantic basin. Not in any other basin. To add to the utter incomprehensibility of the press conference, the IPCC itself, in both 1995 and 2001, had found no global warming signal in the hurricane record. And until your new work would come out, in 2007, the IPCC would not have a new analysis on which to base a change of findings. To stop the press conference, or at least stop any misunderstandings that might come out of it, you contacted Dr. Trenberth prior to the media event. You prepared a synopsis for him that brought him up to date on the state of knowledge about hurricane formation. To your amazement, he simply dismissed your concerns. The press conference proceeded........" The hurricane expert who stood up to UN junk science The full "Deniers" series: Climate change: The Deniers There is way more than these of course, if you can be bothered to look for them them. Our own David Bellamy, a prominent botanist is also now a 'denier' once he'd actually checked all the research (again, like most he hadn't personally looked at it originally, he'd just assumed it was scientifically legit). He was forced to resign as head of an environmental group he'd led for 20+ years. Oh he's still doing environmental work, but it's much harder now he hasn't got the financial resources he had previously backing him. ....btw I'm not at all surprised some of the Oregan Petitioners got scared and tried to back out. They don't wanna watch their careers going down the toilet. Most of us "deniers" have been on "your side" of the fence, and believed the spin. At first. Quote:
BTW Wikepedia? Don't make me laugh, that has never been a safe source for "authority" infomation. See how easily vested interests like BigPharma change thing. Thanks to WikiScanner they are now being caught at it. BrandweekNRX: Abbott caught altering entries to Wikipedia CIA and Major Corporations Altering Articles on Wikipedia - The Largest Minority Lawrence Soloman tried to balance up some articles after speaking to the climate 'recanters'. Wiki was having none of it. Richard Vigilante Books I realise none of this will make a blind bit of difference to you - just as you can shove as much evidence at people that sustainability is another manipulative lie, and depopulation is yet another means to globalist control (nobody ever suggests sharing resources that are allegedly scarce or returning to a more pastoral agricultural model) but whatever. The gig will be up soon enough if the sunspots remain absent. Be hard to keep claiming warming when the temperatures plunge. Still, they have other tricks up their sleeve - water scarcity and food shortages will be their next ones. Genetically modified seeds will be offered to "save us" and we'll be begging for it. Sheesh. | |||||
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08-12-2008, 07:47 PM
| #52 |
| Planter of Seeds War Room Member  Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: On the Computer.
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Oh, certainly - biofuels is a Very Bad Idea, right up there with NINJA mortgages and deregulation of financial markets that let certain banks and lending institutions print imaginary money in a manner reminischent of the "trusts" and "trusts of trusts" of 1920-29. We'd need about 8 Earths to have enough arable land to grow enough fuel to replace just current energy needs, never mind whats' going to be neccesary when China and India gets any kind of standard of living. So if biofuels are the real alternative that the energy companies are going to be using, there's going to be mass starvation before they're done. I suspect it's merely another potential future vehicle for control though - when you wind up spending most of your disposable income on food and the rest to pay interest on your credit cards you can't afford to rock the boat by ojecting too loudly when another one of your human rights gets quietly flushed down the crapper; what if the Company notice and fire you? I saw that already, you 'orrible litte oik, I was just pointin' out yeronner's mistake in callin' me a sep. And it's also why I sent you to The Economist, that noted Labour bastion and market regulation proponent. I mistrust the globalists and the capital forces - a lot more than you do, apparently. The oil industry and the reality-distirtion field that emanates from the oil industry's money is one of the driving influences behind globalization, so when you're repeating their talking points verbatim you're naturally going to get lumped in with them in my personal reailty filter. If you want to appear independent of the policy goals of energy companies in general you'd do well to not cut and paste from their press releases and use their PR flaks as sources. Contrary to popular perception of how science works, it usually also does not progress by paradigm revolution, but by gradual refinement of existing theories up until the point where existing theories does not explain or even predict obervations; so the 'genius inventor' model is singularily unhelpful from any point of view. This is why we have theorists and experimentalists - theorists make elaborate guesses about how certain observations might be connected and attempt to predict what else might be true based on those connections. Experimentalists go out and blow stuff up(CERN) or otherwise attempt to construct experiments to test what the theorists have thoiught up. Theorists need to be brilliant and imaginative in many ways, experimentalists who test their ideas need to be plodding and methodical. It takes both kinds. And you are seriously using the freakin' right wing National Post as a source? Interesting article series though, from a real conservative in the true sense- one interested in conserving the best of what already exists, so yeah, thanks - I haven't read everything from Lawrence Solomon yet, but I fully intend to, he's a good writer. (Uh, dude? Don't know if you noticed that link in my .sig file, but there's a reason I've begun to learn how to grow my own food without the help of chemical fertilizers purchased from Yara and seeds from Monsanto, no matter how much them guys would like to make it a thoughtcrime to even think of doing without their 'blessings', they're as bad as my personal bugbear in the oil industry. The PLR content is just a starting point.) |
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08-12-2008, 08:02 PM
| #53 | |
| and his shiny metal ... War Room Member  Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: 42.751109°N 73.408756°W
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 (Damn it I want my old smileys back)
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| I Donated to KimW - give a sig link to Kim W Life: Nature's way of keeping meat fresh Always remember that you are unique. Just like everyone else. No matter how deep the ocean is, you can still break a window with a hammer Getting old ain't for sissy's | ||
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08-12-2008, 09:30 PM
| #54 | ||||
| In The Mouth Of Madness War Room Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: England
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The oil companies are nothing. Pfft. Lackeys in a larger scheme. To believe they are the ones calling the shots is to believe Dubya is controlling American foreign policy. Or anything else for that matter. Don't think so. You may be interested in this article which has Russians claiming oil and gas are not fossil fuels and that's the reason why they have suddenly become one of the worlds top producers. War and "Peak Oil" That's a well regarded Canadian site by the way, with some excellent articles. Leans to the Left but it's more interested in the globalists games than narrow partisan politics. Peak Oil is just another scam. Drives the price up if people think there's scarcity. If there is war (probable if they follow their agenda to a tee) then it could hit $500 a barrel. They must be drooling at the thought. If it starts dropping to $50 a barrel head for the hills as they'll be flooding the market with cheap oil to crash the world economies. Quote:
National Post? The National Post are irrelevant. They were merely running the articles in full - the only other place would have been to read them in the published book. At least you did read them, most go "ooh National Post obviously a dodgy source so I won't bother reading". Now do you see the rationale for emphasizing that the Gore articles came from a heavyweight hardcore Left source? The hope is that people will then read it, whereas they wouldn't if they thought it was on a "rightwing" blog. Works the other way too though, many rightwingers will refuse to read something if it's on a left leaning site "oh they're all lefties can't trust anything they say". It's very tiresome because what is going on at the moment goes way beyond politics. Many on the 'Left' are wolves in sheeps clothing: Ted Turner, George Soros et al. Even Chomsky himself is suspect. He's been pimping the One World Government for a long time, but it wasn't until his complete denial of any possibility that 9/11 was an inside job that some respected intellectuals started to see through him. He started backtracking then. Many environmental movements like the WWF were set up by Nazi - sometimes literally former members of the Waffen SS - or Nazi sympathisers like Prince Phillip - but Malthusian eugenicists to a man. And of course Globalists. The whole 'environmental catastrophes' thing had been planned for long before they actually became an issue. They even have the Wildlands Project (headed by globalist Mikhail Gorbachev) ready to carve up America. Nobody asks what the hell the UN is doing planning to carve up the US in the first place. It is their globalist system which is causing the bulk of the destruction, but rather than place the blame where it belongs we have been carefully conditioned over the last 30+ years to blame ourselves. There are too many of us, most of us have to go, the earth can't sustain us we are poisoning the planet (no, the system is). No less a towering figure than R. Buckminster Fuller proved beyond doubt the Malthusian model of sustainability was a fallacy. The National Academy Of Sciences agreed with his math. Yet it keeps being ignored. Nobody has any intention of changing the system, they are gonna change us. Gore, Big Oil, The Multinationals, Environmental Movement are all working to the same Agenda. Of course the foot soldiers doing their dirty work have no idea - just like doctors haven't a clue they are killing hundreds of thousands of their patients every year via "iatragenic" illness. Means 'doctor induced' and as most is from drug side effects you'd think they'd get a clue. It isn't even "capitalism" causing it, it's an Agenda to suck up the wealth of the world for the "few" (surely won't be us) and force us back into a feudal system. They masquerade as capitalists but they are surely not. They are gonna squeeze us till the pips hurt and we'll help them because our attention is always 'misdirected' to place the blame elsewhere. Carbon Credits is the slickest they've come up with. Gore and his cronies are making millions as they are buying them from the company they set up. Buying them from themselves. There is an excellently researched article on this, but it's from a journalist on the 'right' so I doubt you'll be interested. Quote:
I no longer share the optimism of some on here. I've seen the 'Belly Of The Beast' recently and there is an evil so monstrous within our society that there is little hope of removing it. You could have Mother Theresa in the White House and it wouldn't make a lick of difference. And no, the epicentre of this isn't actually in the US though it has strong roots there. I badly want to post that stuff, but I don't want to remove hope ya know? I don't sleep easy anymore. I just have to work out how to deal with it and still function. "What you have to understand, John, is that sometimes there are forces and events too big, too powerful, with so much at stake for other people or institutions, that you cannot do anything about them, no matter how evil or wrong they are and no matter how dedicated or sincere you are or how much evidence you have. This is simply one of the hard facts of life you have to face." - Former CIA director and Cercle member William Colby giving advice to his friend Senator John DeCamp, Before the other thread went bellyup I posted a vid on how 'misdirection' is used to distort our perceptions, but we ended up on here. Here it is again. Don't be waiting for a 'gotcha' or you'll miss the lesson. Follow the instructions exactly and you should 'get it'. Now apply that understanding to everything 'authority' tells you, even those you think are on your (or the planets) side. Including AGW. | ||||
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08-12-2008, 09:31 PM
| #55 | |
| In The Mouth Of Madness War Room Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: England
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08-12-2008, 10:23 PM
| #56 |
| The Nature Lady War Room Member  Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: , , USA.
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So while everyone is debating on C02, may I remind you all that WATER - evaporated WATER is the number one greenhouse gas? Many areas that are used for examples of warming actually have mantle plumes sitting under them, LOL. Sure it's warming in some areas. Temperatures hot enough to melt metals will do that. And as far as rain - it's because we are in a La Nina cycle right now. It's going to rain during a La Nina. I have also heard people freaking out over no ice at the poles when we got more ice than in the last 15 years and had one hell of a cold winter...enough to destroy crops in many countries. Ice sheets collapsing...um..have you checked out the seismic activity in the north lately? Alaska is on a continual rumble at the time. The truth is there are so many factors involved in climate that to narrow it down to just one is ludicruous. The sun is inactive right now and it's colder overall than it has been in years - the cooling and warming cycles are going to continue. Picking out C02 and sweating about it is like worrying about a speck of dust in a sand storm. |
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08-12-2008, 10:36 PM
| #57 | |
| Pioneer  Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: USA
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|  Getting cooler, not wamer. Quote:
I wanted to put the LINK here again so no one would miss it. We as a world are getting cooler, not warmer. /Steve | |
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09-03-2008, 06:44 PM
| #58 | |
| Senior Warrior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: USA.
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| Re: 30,000 scientists sue Al Gore for fraud. Quote:
When a lion takes down a gazelle, is that somehow less cruel than a slaughterhouse killing a cow for meat? | |
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09-04-2008, 12:29 AM
| #59 |
| The Nature Lady War Room Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: , , USA.
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| Re: 30,000 scientists sue Al Gore for fraud.
Just a few points to throw out: The number one greenhouse gas on earth is.....WATER...evaporated water. Have you ever been in a very hot place that is also very humid? That is how WATER effects climate. The South Pole is melting -- and was melting during record cold last winter. It is believed that the pole is now sitting on an active mantle plume.....and if that is correct, not only is the pole going to melt, there might be volcanic action there before too long. What is going on at the N Pole? The magnetic N. Pole is shifting for one thing - and very rapidly (moving to Siberia). There also rapid true polar wander going on (that is geographical pole shifting). No need to worry about a geographical pole reversal at this time but land shifting, even slight is going to mess things up a bit at the pole. We had more ice there last winter than in the last 15 years, so something else is going on besides warming........which just might be....... Mantle instability. The mantle is going through some changes right now. Scientists are beginning to wonder if the plume under Yellowstone has been cut off from the mantle heat source. That doesn't mean it's not still dangerous - but it isn't as hot as would be expected at this stage of that game. Whether it cools enough to become too solid to spew is yet to be seen, but if it has, in fact been cut off from the heat source, the possibilities of a major blow in that area lessen as the area cools. Now that is a good thing. The mantle is very possibly changing it's rotational pattern right now...and that could mean some new warm areas, and some new cooler areas. If the rotation is changing directions, I will have scads new material for my newsletters very soon. There is some major subterranian volcanic activity going on at this time and that will warm oceans and have many effects on marine life, water currents etc -- and has nothing to do with CO2. It has to do with the fact that volcanic lava is some pretty hot crap. Okay? Now if you are worried about your planet instead of advocating socking our money into a freaking C02 tax -- go to the ocean beaches closest to you and clean up any trash you find there. That action alone will do more for the environment than if you drain your whole wallet for years into the C02 tax. |
| Last edited by HeySal; 09-04-2008 at 12:31 AM. | |
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09-05-2008, 12:50 AM
| #60 |
| Senior Warrior Member  Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Middle Earth
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| Re: 30,000 scientists sue Al Gore for fraud.
The real cause of what little global warming we do have is our own wealth. Every time we turn on an air conditioner we are throwing hot air out. Refrigerators, freezers, walkins air conditioners -- Every time we cool one cubic foot by one degree we are warming 1.2 cubic feet by 1 degree. The more people that can afford these conveniences the more heat is thrown outside. People using old fireplaces can be letting 90% of their heat go up the chimney. When winter comes we burn fuel and electricity to stay warm and this too heats up the environment. I've been in homes with 17 rooms that had central heat and air running constantly for a family of three. It sure feels good and cold in homes like this, down to 65 in summer and up to 80 in the winter. |
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When you strive for greatness you will find that having a professional collaborator at your side can turn all the fuzzy preaching into writing that is smooth as silk and right as rain. http://www.talewins.com/LinStone.htm | |
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09-05-2008, 10:18 PM
| #61 |
| Warrior Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: , , USA.
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| Re: 30,000 scientists sue Al Gore for fraud.
I Love You greymatrix for posting this. We need to get the word out!!! People open your ears!!! THEIR IS NO GLOBAL WARMING!!! Queenb http://www/thetruequeenb.com |
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