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Suicides In China iPad & iPhone factories

by thunderbird
24 replies
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So many workers at Chinese Apple electronics ipad & iphone factories have committed suicide that they must sign a pledge not to kill themselves.

Workers in Chinese Apple factories forced to sign pledges not to commit suicide | Mail Online
#apple suicides
  • Profile picture of the author LarryC
    Not trying to be morbidly sarcastic here, but what consequences will they face if they break the pledge?

    Seriously, it's sad that Apple can't get it's act together and improve conditions in these factories. It's not like they're short of cash. I'm saying that as a longtime user of Macs.

    Microsoft is surely no better. Among other things, Bill Gates is now a major investor in Monsanto. But Apple tries to portray itself as a cool and alternative type company, so they should try to live up to this image.
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by LarryC View Post

      Not trying to be morbidly sarcastic here, but what consequences will they face if they break the pledge?

      Seriously, it's sad that Apple can't get it's act together and improve conditions in these factories. It's not like they're short of cash. I'm saying that as a longtime user of Macs.

      Microsoft is surely no better. Among other things, Bill Gates is now a major investor in Monsanto. But Apple tries to portray itself as a cool and alternative type company, so they should try to live up to this image.
      Apple is ***NOT*** a chinese company! Fox Conn is NOT an Apple Plant! Seriously, if ford sold your friend a car, and a defect in it killed someone else, would you tell your friend that they should help ford to do better? If yes, then I am HAPPY! On the same basis, I could probably demand that YOU help out many companies!

      Steve
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      • Profile picture of the author LarryC
        Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

        Apple is ***NOT*** a chinese company! Fox Conn is NOT an Apple Plant! Seriously, if ford sold your friend a car, and a defect in it killed someone else, would you tell your friend that they should help ford to do better? If yes, then I am HAPPY! On the same basis, I could probably demand that YOU help out many companies!

        Steve
        That sounds like an argument that a lawyer would make to defend a company in court. Apple is still one of the largest companies in the world, so they should take some responsibility for the conditions in these plants, even if they don't technically own them.
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    With protectionism gone in the US, a lot of companies here are starting to stretch the limits as far as they can, too. It's not going to be long before we see the factories in the US being no different than in China. Factory work in the US is fast becoming less than living wages and mandatory overtime. Everywhere in the world that there is a large corporation - there seems to be some form of human suffering caused from the abuse they are willing to dole out for a profit. And our consumers are now too stupid to react to it at all. Look at Nike - plenty of other types of tennis shoes on the market and most people KNOW that Nike abuses its employees - but consumers still want NIKES - they can't stop buying them long enough to send a message to corporations that we aren't going to put up with them abusing humans. WTF is wrong with us?

    I used to think that US citizens would never allow this treatment in their own country -- I now see it starting and see nobody is really giving much of a rip about it. Seems that the same attitude is going to take over manufacturing as is taking over in regard to the poor and homeless that were struck by the economic crash - if you are poor you are just trash and not worth anything anyway -- coming soon: if you work in a factory you are just stupid trash and don't deserve to be treated like a human anyway.
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    • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      With protectionism gone in the US, a lot of companies here are starting to stretch the limits as far as they can, too. It's not going to be long before we see the factories in the US being no different than in China. Factory work in the US is fast becoming less than living wages and mandatory overtime. Everywhere in the world that there is a large corporation - there seems to be some form of human suffering caused from the abuse they are willing to dole out for a profit. And our consumers are now too stupid to react to it at all. Look at Nike - plenty of other types of tennis shoes on the market and most people KNOW that Nike abuses its employees - but consumers still want NIKES - they can't stop buying them long enough to send a message to corporations that we aren't going to put up with them abusing humans. WTF is wrong with us?

      I used to think that US citizens would never allow this treatment in their own country -- I now see it starting and see nobody is really giving much of a rip about it. Seems that the same attitude is going to take over manufacturing as is taking over in regard to the poor and homeless that were struck by the economic crash - if you are poor you are just trash and not worth anything anyway -- coming soon: if you work in a factory you are just stupid trash and don't deserve to be treated like a human anyway.
      You are spot on, and from what I can see appearing to be a trend, is along with the poor, throw in the elderly and the very young. It appalls me that they abuse the most vulnerable in society. Kinda reminds me of the behavior of street thugs!

      Terra
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      • Profile picture of the author thunderbird
        Originally Posted by MissTerraK View Post

        You are spot on, and from what I can see appearing to be a trend, is along with the poor, throw in the elderly and the very young. It appalls me that they abuse the most vulnerable in society. Kinda reminds me of the behavior of street thugs!

        Terra
        That is why people are better off if they are self sufficient and can live "off of the grid" (that is, away from it). That doesn't necessarily mean out of the city or the community. Someone can be invisibly self-sufficient, not dependent on the kindness or generosity of others. I believe in being generous and having high standards in how I treat others, while not expecting, never mind assuming, the same in others (or I'd be clawing at my head in disappointment all the time). There are a lot of vicious and hypocritical parasites out there and it is downright dangerous to depend on them for anything.
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        • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
          Originally Posted by thunderbird View Post

          That is why people are better off if they are self sufficient and can live "off of the grid" (that is, away from it). That doesn't necessarily mean out of the city or the community. Someone can be invisibly self-sufficient, not dependent on the kindness or generosity of others. I believe in being generous and having high standards in how I treat others, while not expecting, never mind assuming, the same in others (or I'd be clawing at my head in disappointment all the time). There are a lot of vicious and hypocritical parasites out there and it is downright dangerous to depend on them for anything.
          I agree with 100%!

          And I am so thankful that I've been blessed enough to not have to depend on them for anything.

          But I also know that in life, sometimes "stuff" happens, that the bottom falls out without any fault of your own. For instance the terrible stock market crash that lead to the Great Depression.

          I believe that it's more a possibility than a probability that it would happen to me, but I shudder to think where I would be if it did, to tell you the truth. I'm knocking on 50's door and not getting any younger and time is bringing me closer to that elderly sect, lol.

          Terra
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  • Profile picture of the author MoneyMagnetMagnate
    Hey, Foxconn just gave them a 25% raise...that increase basically amounts to free room and board - that ought to bring a few of them out of the doldrums...

    But by comparison, I read a statistic yesterday that said if a Foxconn employee wanted to buy a new iphone that they build, it would cost them 8 months wages (not including service contract) -

    No offense, but there are a few thousand applicants waiting outside the gate - this wage is higher than many if not most other factory environments available to them right now...

    The cost of living over in Hong Kong is way higher...

    I'm not saying it is a completely fixed system or even right, just a little better than before...
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  • Profile picture of the author yukon
    Banned
    The Chinese Gov. is so backwards, they allow corporate giants to walk all over people in order to get a job.

    And they were made to promise that if they did, their families would only seek the legal minimum in damages.
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    • Profile picture of the author thunderbird
      Originally Posted by yukon View Post

      The Chinese Gov. is so backwards, they allow corporate giants to walk all over people in order to get a job.
      They're not backwards, whatever they are. Far from it. I think in the game of poker, so to speak, China is winning. Usually the sucker has no idea that they are the sucker.
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      • Profile picture of the author yukon
        Banned
        Originally Posted by thunderbird View Post

        They're not backwards, whatever they are. Far from it. I think in the game of poker, so to speak, China is winning. Usually the sucker has no idea that they are the sucker.
        Lol, winning what?

        That's one step above North Korea.
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        • Profile picture of the author MoneyMagnetMagnate
          Originally Posted by yukon View Post

          Lol, winning what?

          That's one step above North Korea.
          Ah, but the US is not in hock to North Korea...:rolleyes:

          Funny - Communism didn't take over the World by Revolution...

          But it might get there with Revolving Credit -
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        • Profile picture of the author thunderbird
          Originally Posted by yukon View Post

          Lol, winning what?

          That's one step above North Korea.
          There's not much resemblance between contemporary China and North Korea. I'm not sure what you're imagining, but it is not 1974 any more.

          Hooters in Vancouver, Canada went out of business. Hooters in Shanghai, China is thriving. There is no Hooters in North Korea.

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          • Profile picture of the author yukon
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            Originally Posted by thunderbird View Post

            There's not much resemblance between contemporary China and North Korea. I'm not sure what you're imagining, but it is not 1974 any more.

            Hooters in Vancouver, Canada went out of business. Hooters in Shanghai, China is thriving. There is no Hooters in North Korea.
            So Hooters is the definition of winning in China?
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            • Profile picture of the author thunderbird
              Originally Posted by yukon View Post

              So Hooters is the definition of winning in China?
              I don't know what a Hooters existence in China means, signifies, or proves. I wasn't too impressed with the Vancouver Hooters (I actually found it kind of sad).
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by yukon View Post

      The Chinese Gov. is so backwards, they allow corporate giants to walk all over people in order to get a job.
      Want to run your own country and get a lot of slaves?

      1. Show them how bad things are, and blame the rich.
      2. Get them together to help overthrow the rich.
      3. Take over the plants, and assure them simple work at a certain payrate and just make sure the bare essentials are met.
      4. If you fail in any way, blame OTHERS.
      5. It works best if you censor and limit communication. You want them to believe that they have the best deal going.

      Sound familiar? It is the same type of communism in the soviet union, and china. When the walls came down in berlin, some actually PINED for the old way because less was expected, and there were fewer worries if they towed the line. Advancement, preparation, vacations, etc... were HARDER though!

      Steve
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      • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
        Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

        Want to run your own country and get a lot of slaves?

        1. Show them how bad things are, and blame the rich.
        2. Get them together to help overthrow the rich.
        3. Take over the plants, and assure them simple work at a certain payrate and just make sure the bare essentials are met.
        4. If you fail in any way, blame OTHERS.
        5. It works best if you censor and limit communication. You want them to believe that they have the best deal going.

        Sound familiar? It is the same type of communism in the soviet union, and china. When the walls came down in berlin, some actually PINED for the old way because less was expected, and there were fewer worries if they towed the line. Advancement, preparation, vacations, etc... were HARDER though!

        Steve
        I guess some things never do change.

        Way back in biblical times when the Hebrews were freed from Egyptian slavery, when things got tough they whined it was better for them when they were bound with the bonds of slavery back in Egypt.

        Nothing new under the sun, just different packaging?

        Terra
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  • Profile picture of the author hardraysnight
    i am boycotting apple, except apple records
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  • Profile picture of the author dgridley
    American corporations typically turn a blind eye to these sorts of things but the public is equally to blame, once educated to the problem. Still I don't see people refusing to buy Apple or Nike products if it doesn't directly affect them.

    People "tsk, tsk" when they hear about the goings on in slaughterhouses yet they still wolf down burgers (myself included)..
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    • Profile picture of the author Chris Worner
      Originally Posted by dgridley View Post

      American corporations typically turn a blind eye to these sorts of things but the public is equally to blame, once educated to the problem. Still I don't see people refusing to buy Apple or Nike products if it doesn't directly affect them.
      Your also forgetting the worlds governments where these sweat shops are located. They profit the most out of all this.

      -Chris
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      • Profile picture of the author dgridley
        Not forgetting.. I actually think the 1st world buying public is most complicit, assuming they are aware of the conditions. The corporations and officials couldn't make the bucks if the public put their foot down and demanded a change. People won't do it because prices would go up more than they already are..

        Originally Posted by Chris Worner View Post

        Your also forgetting the worlds governments where these sweat shops are located. They profit the most out of all this.

        -Chris
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by dgridley View Post

      American corporations typically turn a blind eye to these sorts of things but the public is equally to blame, once educated to the problem. Still I don't see people refusing to buy Apple or Nike products if it doesn't directly affect them.

      People "tsk, tsk" when they hear about the goings on in slaughterhouses yet they still wolf down burgers (myself included)..
      You want to stop buyig the products? *****GOOD LUCK***** When you find a way, let US know TOO, OK? Do you have ANY idea how much of this happens? Let's say you are a body builder that doesn't want to support such things in china. OK, 98% of all protein sold is now TABOO! ODD, but apparently TRUE! Let's say you like peanuts or cashews, etc.... OOPS! Let' say you want sneakers, almost ANY brand, or pants, etc.... OOOPS!

      OH, you mean just electronics? OK, samsung, toshiba, NEC, IBM, lenovo, motorola, TI, etc... are probably ALL equally as guilty!

      Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author paul_1
    This only goes to show that humans are not created to stand 12+ hours doing repetitive work... This is just degrading and undignified... There's so much more the human spirit ought to do than becoming a robot in the assembly line... I doubt if they'd still like to stare at an i-pad in the stores after their shifts...
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by paul_1 View Post

      This only goes to show that humans are not created to stand 12+ hours doing repetitive work... This is just degrading and undignified... There's so much more the human spirit ought to do than becoming a robot in the assembly line... I doubt if they'd still like to stare at an i-pad in the stores after their shifts...
      I once did a study on MYSELF, which current commercials and the like, created DECADES later seem to support! I told my boss that if I worked 9-3:30, I would do TWICE the wor with LESS effort. He LAUGHED! A 32% reduction in hours DOUBLING the work sounds incredible, but it ISN'T! That was my MOST productive time. By giving me the other 2.5 hours, it would reduce errors and make me more willing to work. It is AMAZING how much effort is lost in corporations due to overworked workers. A problem may be HARD to fix! BUT.... BUT....?

      I was once on a project where people worked well into the night, for over a WEEK! We were CLOSE to being finished! ONE guy made the TINIEST mistake. All the work was LITERALLY wiped out in les than a MINUTE! Everyone went home that night while he and a few others tried to recover what they could!

      BTW in my defense, he ALSO said I was wrong about microcomputers taking over, and hurting DECS and IBMs business. Within about a decade, they took over, IBM lost a LOT of market share, and DEC went bankrupt! He finally caved, and NOW, they only support MICROS with a version I created!

      As for the chinese workers? Prior to like mid 1980, assembling circuit boards was FAR more involved!

      Steve
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