Who Do You Blame For The Financial Crisis?

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Blameworthy - 25 People to Blame for the Financial Crisis - TIME

There is an article in the Time magazine asking its readers to vote on who do they blame for the financial crisis. I would be interested in your opinions for the top three here.

My pick would be

1. The American consumer - the debt bubble is completely unsustainable, whether it went into housing, consumer products or otherwise. This was bound to collapse anyway.

2. Alan Greenspan - he low interest rate policy stroked housing bubble and he stood in the way of regulating derivatives.

3. Joe Cassano - he was the driving force behind the CDs whose collapse led to the financial crisis.


Although the collapse of Lehman's triggered the crisis, I don't think Dick Fuld was the main culprit. Also although Maddoff was involved in massive fraud, that fraud did not lead to the financial crisis.

I do not blame Clinton or Bush that much either. If there is president to blame, I would say it is Reagan who instigated all this deregulation.

Now, please read that article and give us your opinions!


Derek
  • Profile picture of the author Phil Jones
    I blame those that keep telling us about the ressession and "crisis"... just makes things worse for everyone!

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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Nope - the fault of the Debt belongs to Roosevelt who declared the US bankrupt and installed the lethal FED (World Bank) on top of us illegally. Without the FED, there would have been no monopoly money and we couldn't have built such a debt in the first place.
    It's been well planned and conceived and many "conspiracy theory nut jobs" were able to place it right down to the very month it was going to fail years ago. Go figure.
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  • Profile picture of the author Star69
    A woman actually said the following on CNN this morning in regards to her home falling into foreclosure:

    "We bought a house that we knew we couldn't afford, but the bankers made it so easy."

    Oh. Well, that explains it.

    If they knew they couldn't afford it, why did they still sign the papers?!!! Why is she blaming the bankers?!!! LOOK IN THE FRIGGING MIRROR!!!

    I have absolutely no pity for this woman and those like her. The responsible must now shoulder the burden of the irresponsible while white collar crimes go unpunished. Even Bernie Madoff is still allowed the luxury of being able to live at home after taking people for FIFTY BILLION DOLLARS! There should be NO BAIL for scum like that man!

    'Oh, but he wears a suit and tie...' SO WHAT?!
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    • Profile picture of the author Phnx
      Originally Posted by Star69 View Post


      If they knew they couldn't afford it, why did they still sign the papers?!!! Why is she blaming the bankers?!!! LOOK IN THE FRIGGING MIRROR!!!
      Because it IS their fault! Sure they take advantage of human nature, but that woman has ALREADY PAID FOR THE HOUSE if she only knew it.

      Banks are not allowed by law to lend out depositors money, it has to be available for the depositor to withdraw any time they want. The bank can't turn round and say "sorry you can't have your money at the moment, we've lent it to someone else". So they lend their own money? Er no. They lend out money that doesn't exist. Not a penny is debited from their account.

      The money comes into existence when the borrower puts their SIGNATURE on the loan agreement. The bank uses that to create bonds and securities. The borrower is ultimately the creditor and if they'd get up off their knees they could challenge the mortgage (or CC) contract because for a contract to be valid in law - this aplies in all countries which use the Western banking system (UCC) - both parties must bring consideration. The borrower puts a deposit but the banker brings nothing to the table. Not a bloody penny. A contract must also contain full disclosure - not telling you that they haven't actually lent you anything kinda voids the contract.

      Don't believe me? Below are the Court records from a fellow who attempted to forestall foreclosure with just this method. The banker admitted under oath that this is what they were doing. The Judge and the Jury agreed it was fraud and the man ended up owning his house free and clear. A few others have cottoned on to this - but you have to file BEFORE the banks call the shots I think.

      Some Judges and economists appear to know what's going on, but most don't I think. I also don't think 'middle managers' in banks can fully understand what goes on. After all, they are getting shafted too, but they are expendable.

      You or I did this we'd be jailed for fraud. The bankers have no lawful remit to do this in any country. They appear to have decided amongst themselves that this is how it's gonna be, and we are so dumb that we never question, so it is we who let them get away with it.

      There was recently a piece in The Economist magazine (very respected) pointing out that all these Hedge Fund losses are actually just digits on a screen. No real loss, though bankers may have lost some of their personal assets. For the loss of fake money we have bailed them all out with real tax payers money (not that any of it is real of course). Instead of lending to businesses they started buying up other banks and consolidating. So what do we do? We give them a slap on the wrist and hand them more money. All those foreclosed businesses and homes - guess who'll own them all when the dust settles?

      Over here Gordon Brown gave Bailiffs the power to enter homes to seize property (most of them have a criminal record). The police can't do that without a warrant, but these licensed thugs now can. Don't pay a parking ticket, then they'll burst into your home and take whatever they want. Debt is bad don't ya know. So let's get this straight, the rich get in debt and they get bailed out - much of the money coming from the poor - but the poor get legally burgled. See anything wrong with this picture?

      We are little more than bonded serfs ultimately, and are paying for our own enslavement.

      Here's a link to that Court doc...you'll note it was from the 60's and TPTB have managed to keep a lid on it. Just think, if the masses really understood what was being done to them there'd be bankers swinging from every lampost and tree............

      "Intro......

      A Minnesota Trial Court's decision holding the Federal Reserve Act unconstitutional and VOID; holding the National Banking Act unconstitutional and VOID; declaring a mortgage acquired by the First National Bank of Montgomery, Minnesota in the regular course of its business, along with the foreclosure and the sheriff's sale, to be VOID.

      This decision, which is legally sound, has the effect of declaring all private mortgages on real and personal property, and all U.S. and State bonds held by the Federal Reserve, National and State Banks to be null and VOID. This amounts to an emancipation of this nation from personal, national and State debt purportedly owed to this banking system. Every True American owes it to himself/herself, to his or her country, and to the people of the world for that matter, to study this decision very carefully and to understand it, for upon it hangs the question of freedom or slavery....."


      THE CREDIT RIVER DECISION - Gold & Silver Forum
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      • Profile picture of the author ShayB
        Originally Posted by Phnx View Post

        Because it IS their fault!
        I respectfully disagree.

        It is NOT their fault that people have a mortgage they cannot afford.

        There may be other things that are their fault, but this is not one of them.
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        • Profile picture of the author Phnx
          Originally Posted by ShayRockhold View Post

          I respectfully disagree.

          It is NOT their fault that people have a mortgage they cannot afford.
          I suggest you reread the post, and most importantly the Court Docs. She'd ALREADY PAID FOR THAT HOUSE FREE AND CLEAR WITH HER SIGNATURE.

          Geddit?

          It was HER signature that provided the funds. The bankers had ALREADY been paid for it, they just had to keep milking it.

          The bank lent her nothing. Not one dime. Understand?
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    • Profile picture of the author ShayB
      Originally Posted by Star69 View Post

      A woman actually said the following on CNN this morning in regards to her home falling into foreclosure:

      "We bought a house that we knew we couldn't afford, but the bankers made it so easy."

      Oh. Well, that explains it.

      If they knew they couldn't afford it, why did they still sign the papers?!!! Why is she blaming the bankers?!!! LOOK IN THE FRIGGING MIRROR!!!

      I have absolutely no pity for this woman and those like her. The responsible must now shoulder the burden of the irresponsible while white collar crimes go unpunished. Even Bernie Madoff is still allowed the luxury of being able to live at home after taking people for FIFTY BILLION DOLLARS! There should be NO BAIL for scum like that man!

      'Oh, but he wears a suit and tie...' SO WHAT?!
      I have said it before and I will say it again: personal responsibility (or lack thereof) is a big part of this crisis.

      Live within your means and don't spend every penny you make (and then some). Not too difficult.

      Are there cases where the "innocent" suffer through no fault of there own? Sure. Illness, etc., can wreak havoc with lives.

      But if you listen to a majority of the cases shown on the news, these are just really stupid people who don't have a lick of sense.

      You buy a home you can't afford and then don't pay a single payment for 6 months or more, and you will lose your house. Period. That is the way it works.

      If you buy a home you can't afford, then you need to lose your house. Period. You can't afford it.

      Seeing people whining about losing a house they had no business buying in the first place ticks me off. Sorry.
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  • Profile picture of the author Patrician
    I have been watching for the last few decades and knew there could be no other result:

    - shutting our industries down, off-shoring our manufacturing to foreign countries

    * displacing the workers in those and many other industries by off-shoring/outsourcing services that were done previously by consumer citizens

    * playing favorites with those same countries/trading partners that got our industries and jobs, making it impossible for our remaining companies to compete with their low cost imports.

    * displacing many millions more American citizens by 'downsizing' and then giving their jobs to immigrants who will work for half the cost.

    - greedy lending practices and speculation

    - outrageously obscene compensation for the 'upper eschelon' even when the stockholders and employees are suffering severe loss as a result of poor performance by the same management/companies.

    - spending billions of dollars and thousands of lives on the war machine

    Now the middle class is jobless and in poverty. "The rich get richer and the poor get poorer" -

    Remember there is no real money - only debt. We all have debt from the government on down to the people. If you take away our jobs we will not be able to pay our debts. duh.

    The greedy carpet bagging corporations that broke the back of this country for a few extra pennies, have now lost billions of our dollars somewhere or other - oh yeh - there it is - missing from pension plans that people have saved for their entire lives with investments that have tanked and real estate that has been foreclosed.

    The so-called solution is to now take billions more from us to 'recover'.

    What a joke.
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      It's easy to blame the consumer - but the recent practice of bundling loans into "securities" labeled AAA is one reason lenders turned a blind eye to falsified documents and inflated income of borrowers. Realtors and loan officers help falsify and mis-state applications. Ethics and common sense gave way to greed because deregulation left the foxes in the henhouse.

      The question should be "who isn't to blame" - and that would be those who bought houses they could afford and are now losing their homes due to the economic turmoil and huge job losses.

      Most disgusting to me is the "shock and surprise" being displayed by everyone involved. This was predicted - but no one listened. From March 2007 -
      Mortgage reset 'tsunami' could end up an economic ripple - MarketWatch

      Why were questions about Bernie M ignored? Because the very rich are treated with respect whether they earn it or not. We see it in IM every day - people believe it when someone tells them what they want to hear.

      Subprime is no longer the news - foreclosures now are in the "good" market. Option Arms - perhaps riskier than sub-prime - will start resetting this Spring - and may be another tsunami of defaults.

      You can't talk UP a freefalling economy. Ignoring it doesn't change anything - nor does obsessing about it. Hunker down, manage your own money wisely...and survive.

      kay
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      • Profile picture of the author ShayB
        Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

        The question should be "who isn't to blame" - and that would be those who bought houses they could afford and are now losing their homes due to the economic turmoil and huge job losses.

        kay
        Absolutely.

        But I have yet to see one of these cases on the news. Why? Why do they only show people who were "duped" into buying a house too expensive? :confused:

        I know there are cases like you describe, but I wonder why they are showing these other cases?

        Every case I see on tv has had the "Stupid Factor," for lack of a better word. No innocent victims. Just people buying too much house and then crying about not being able to keep it.
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        • Profile picture of the author Phnx
          Originally Posted by ShayRockhold View Post

          Absolutely.

          But I have yet to see one of these cases on the news. Why? Why do they only show people who were "duped" into buying a house too expensive? :confused:

          I know there are cases like you describe, but I wonder why they are showing these other cases?

          Every case I see on tv has had the "Stupid Factor," for lack of a better word. No innocent victims. Just people buying too much house and then crying about not being able to keep it.
          This is classic 'conditioning'. They do this all the time with controversial topics - conspiracies for instance - or anything they wish to divert attention from. They wheel out the craziest kooks and people automatically associate the topic with nutjobs and lose interest in researching the subject.

          The sheer repetition of the 'stupid factor' will make you accept that it's not really the bankers fault. Oh sure, they were a being a bit greedy lending to people they shouldn't :rolleyes: , but hey that's business! Ultimately, it's those impertinent poor who wanted their own homes when clearly they couldn't afford them. It's all their fault. See how stoopid they are?

          It's a demonization of the poor Shay, and they are probably hoping you won't notice when hardworking people you know are getting tossed out on the street. Or it'll mute your rage, because if the conditioning has worked, you'll be unconsciously thinking that maybe they really couldn't afford it in the first place and they've done what those 'stupid people' did, living beyond their means. After all, how do you really know what the state of their finances are?

          You are being conditioned to think losing your home equates to being stupid/reckless/greedy etc etc. Hard to feel sorry for people like that, after all, it's their own fault! Of course should it happen to you, that's the point when the conditioning stops, but it's too late then. And of course other people will think you brought it on yourself.

          See how it works?

          Blaming the victims never goes out of style.
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  • Profile picture of the author valerieSONORA
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      • Profile picture of the author pavondunbar
        If these people really are to blame for the crisis...

        I wonder how they sleep at night...

        Knowing they destroyed families' livelihoods and the economy...

        For a big payday?

        Pavon
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        • Profile picture of the author Phnx
          Originally Posted by pavondunbar View Post

          If these people really are to blame for the crisis...

          I wonder how they sleep at night...

          Knowing they destroyed families' livelihoods and the economy...

          For a big payday?

          Pavon
          I think they sleep very well mate. This is what they've been aiming for for a very long time. Us "conspiracists" in the NN (early editions) thread were warning that this shit was going down a couple of years ago. Maybe not the fine details, but we knew this was coming.

          We ain't psychic, "they" told us what their plans were. It's kinda fascinating watching it unfold. Codex Alimentarius is really gonna help with the depopulation, and of course massive food shortages are coming. For the first time in commerce freight forwarders are giving free passage. There are retail goods stuck in ports unable to get to their owners who've paid for them. This didn't happen even during the Great Depression. Pretty soon food containers will be rotting there, then oil etc. The food supply chains gets buggered then we're screwed.

          How soon, ah that's another matter. If we're lucky we might have a year at best.

          Plus there is also an esoteric angle for those paying attention...

          Back in 2004 a scholar called called Carl Johan Calleman suggested that the international monetary system may collapse and we would see 'alliances' being made as the old order desperately tried to maintain the status quo. Dualing 'energies' if you like battling it out before the planetary realignment in 2012 which many ancient peoples prophecised.

          So both those dismissed as conspiracists (because the bad guys laid out their plans for economic collapse and global dominance and a One World Government resulting from meltdown) and the New Agers/Religionists/Esotericists who'd paid attention to the prophecies suspected something big coming down the pike.

          No surprise to us lot.

          Don't suppose you'd want to know that the crap has barely started according to both those groups.
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        • Profile picture of the author valerieSONORA
          Originally Posted by pavondunbar View Post

          If these people really are to blame for the crisis...

          I wonder how they sleep at night...

          Knowing they destroyed families' livelihoods and the economy...

          For a big payday?

          Pavon
          They sleep just fine. No conscious. People with no conscious don't care about others at all even if they destroy lives.
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        • Profile picture of the author derekwong28
          Originally Posted by pavondunbar View Post

          If these people really are to blame for the crisis...

          I wonder how they sleep at night...

          Knowing they destroyed families' livelihoods and the economy...

          For a big payday?

          Pavon

          Pavon, greed knows NO bounds. I witnessed it first hand 10 years ago during the Asian Financial Crisis. American bankers and hedge funds went round wrecking economies around Asia that susbequently engulfed almost all developing countries. The fact of the matter is that people can often make bigger money in falling markets. Despite denials, Soros was thought to be one of biggest culprits at that time. Here is what he and his greedy friends did to us.

          1. Bought land borrowed lots of HK dollars
          2. Placed bets against Hong Kong stocks in terms of short selling and through the futures market
          3. Sold lots of HK dollars suddenly.
          4. Hong Kong would be forced to raise interest rates because of a shortage of HK dollars.
          5. Stock prices would crash
          6. Soros et al would reap in huge profits.

          As a result of this, our economy did enter a depression and people were committing suicides left, right and center.

          The difference this time is that the action is in the U.S. I hate to say it, but in all likelihood, you will have lots of people committing suicides soon that it will cease to be reported in the news.

          Of course, there are lots of vultures hoping for great bargains as stock and house prices crash.

          Derek
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  • Profile picture of the author Phnx
    Here's another fella who predicted both the financial and coming food crisis over a YEAR ago. He ain't psychic either.

    If you want to know how badly we are being screwed do some searches on Dunn & Bradstreet www.dnb.com for any country in the world. D&B list COMMERCIAL businesses - trading "for profit" CORPORATIONS.

    In the "Find A Company" type in the Federal Reserve Board>Nationwide; Department Of Justice etc and what do you see? Type the individual names of your Courts and City Councils. Type in "United States Government" and you'll see the Corporate branches listed (you can't get the indepth details unless you pay, but the vid below shows what type of stuff that throws up). Yes the UK Government is the same. Hah our Ministry Of Justice has got a credit default (CCJ) against it. All our courts and police stations are there too.

    Do you understand what this means? It means our Government departments and Courts etc, are NOT and cannot be "public" bodies working for the people. Somewhere along the line they got taken over by the Corporate world and we are their employees. Our countries really are run as Corporations. It's like WalMart or Microsoft telling you how to live your life, and sucking up your wealth to put you on the street. Dude, they own us.

    How could they get away with this? Not hard to keep us distracted with gameshows and reality tv, or chasing the pot of gold to buy shiny things eh? Corrupt and immoral doesn't begin to describe them.

    Do your own research. They are tricky and you have to play about a bit to see what they could be using to 'trade' under. The Bank Of England trades under it's old nickname of "The Old Lady Of Threadneadle Street". That's supposed to be nationalized but it's bullshit. That seems to be a scam to obscure things, or put ownership into the hands of a few. Certainly not the public.

    And those hidden Corporations are sucking up the wealth of the world. You'll be giving them more before they are through. What are they doing at the moment... why they talk about "nationalizing" more and more banks. To save us all of course. Riiight!

    Wake up FFS!

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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    LOL - now you've done it Lee. People are going to be calling Dunn and Bradstreet "conspiracy nut cases" Hahahahahaha.

    Of course, US is corporate owned. We have been since the installment of career politicians. I guess that wasn't on CBS either huh? I watched their news last night (Corporately produced news, btw) and they are still saying that the Arctic is melting - it's like we don't have access to the satellite pics ourselves -- then they turned around and blamed the arsen set fires in Australia on Global warming. Well now I know. Global Warming is a person. I wonder if he's protesting the new toilet taxes with those fires he set, eh? LOL.

    Lee - people over here still haven't figured out that having Career Political families giving the corporations people's money against the will of the people they are taking it from is a signal that we have a fascist rule here. Now they are taking OUR money to keep corporations employing us?? Hahahaha - but there's no fascism here. That can't happen in the real world, ya know. LOL.
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  • Profile picture of the author Phnx
    The speculation on the financial blogs is who is gonna be the next Iceland. UK or Ireland seem to be the favourites. The way they are printing money at the moment I'll bet it's us. Respected economists have been making comparisons with the Weimar Republic just before it became Nazi Germany - they were wheeling their money in barrows just to buy groceries. Zimbabwe at the moment is in that position. Argentina experienced the same before they sank. Hey we could get to be millionaires yet, but it won't be worth squat.

    More people are waking up, but it's not nearly enough Sal. I find myself periodically slipping back into your position of "the hell with them then". What the hell does it take to get people to pay attention?

    I found out something real scary the other day. Governments usually buy emergency stocks in when commodity prices are low, so of course as they've been so high lately most countries are gravely understocked. In the 90's we decided not to bother with those stocks and instead decided to rely on supermarkets. FFS! These days supermarkets buy in "just in time" to cut expenditure. If things really crash it'll happen quickly, supply routes will be disrupted and once our supermarket shelves are empty that is it. No stocks anywhere - though I bet the elite have their own food stores somewhere. This is criminal negligence (serves the agenda of course) because it'll take a few weeks to get things sorted and hundreds of thousands of people - mainly those on low incomes who don't keep large stocks in - are going to be without food and other essentials.

    Of course there is one way out of the mess, which they've always favoured in the past. World War. All those armaments, that'll get the economy and manufacturing flowing again eh, and the unemployed will be sucked up into the military. Never fails, and it'll make even more profit for the banksters. And they'll use OUR money to fund it all.

    Damn them all to hell.
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      But I have yet to see one of these cases on the news. Why? Why do they only show people who were "duped" into buying a house too expensive?
      Because it makes people who have not (yet) been affected feel immune and self satisfied and makes it easy to blame the problem on the public instead of on the system. In that "I did it so everyone else can, too" belief you do their propaganda for them. I know several people personally who have fallen behind after years of paying mortgages responsibly. They are trying desperately to keep up and they're terrified of the future.

      They aren't "news" because they don't fit the agenda of getting people to point at each other as "to blame".

      A few years ago CEO salaries were 24 times the pay of the average worker in their company - in the past two years they've been earning 275 times that pay. We're financing that!

      In the past few years the amount saved in taxes by the richest 1% due to changes in the code total over half a trillion dollars. With large tax rate cuts and cuts in capital gains taxes, many of these very wealthy people pay less in taxes than an average middle class person. We say "oh well" as we cash a $300 check we paid ourselves (with borrowed money).

      Our medical records are now required to be put online - how long before insurance companies can access them to check out "worthiness"? How about credit bureaus? No one is saying anything about it.

      After being given billions in taxpayer dollars, the auto industry cut jobs - less than two months later they are back with their collection plates out and announcing more huge job cuts at the same time. Will we tolerate it? Probably - "too big to fail" has become a phrase people spout without thinking.

      Cemeteries are full of people who were "indispensable"; some of these companies and banks deserve to go the same route.

      Talking heads harp on the "American Dream" - but the spirit of the people seems to be gone. We are busy with our TVs, computer games, blackberry's and ipods and chatting incessant irrelevancies on our cell phones - but 40 years ago people would have been protesting in the streets throughout this country. That we aren't filling the streets now is a sad commentary on our priorities and a measure of our cluelessness.

      As Phnx pointed out above, some of the most damaging things have been done under the radar. My Grandmother used to say "the chickens will come home to roost" - looks like we'll be standing right underneath them!

      kay
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    • Profile picture of the author derekwong28
      Originally Posted by Phnx View Post

      The speculation on the financial blogs is who is gonna be the next Iceland. UK or Ireland seem to be the favourites. The way they are printing money at the moment I'll bet it's us. Respected economists have been making comparisons with the Weimar Republic just before it became Nazi Germany - they were wheeling their money in barrows just to buy groceries. Zimbabwe at the moment is in that position. Argentina experienced the same before they sank. Hey we could get to be millionaires yet, but it won't be worth squat.
      I agree, looking at other countries that could be in line

      "A study of the external debt in relation to GDP in several countries suggests the risk is not limited to Iceland, according to Hennessee's research.

      Like Iceland, Ireland's external debt, at $1.8 trillion, equals 900% of the country's $200 billion GDP.

      The United Kingdom's external debt of $10.5 trillion equals 456% of its $2.3 trillion GDP.

      Switzerland's external debt of $1.3 trillion equals 433% of its $300 billion GDP.

      Even though it might not feel like it right now, the United States is in better shape with $12.3 trillion worth of external debt and a $14.6 trillion GDP for an 84% debt-to-GDP ratio."


      While it is the US that started the crisis, it would be wrong to put the blame on it alone. Almost every other country has bubbles of their own that were waiting to burst.

      Do not believe entirely any figures that come out of China. Its economy is more dependent on trade than Japan and its stock market suffered the greatest collapse of all markets last year. Morover, its property bubble in relation to the earnings of its populace would be among the highest in the world.
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      • Profile picture of the author Kay King
        I found these numbers interesting.

        Federal obligations exceed world GDP
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  • Profile picture of the author Jared Alberghini
    I blame the Illuminati.
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    • Profile picture of the author valerieSONORA
      Originally Posted by Jared Alberghini View Post

      I blame the Illuminati.
      The Illuminati is behind everything bad. Why can't they be assassinated?
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      • Profile picture of the author myob
        Originally Posted by valerieSONORA View Post

        The Illuminati is behind everything bad. Why can't they be assassinated?
        Illuminati are very hard to kill. Some can live up to 200 years or more by sucking on the huddled and enslaved masses who are yearning to breathe free. Here are some valuable techniques revealed by an ex-Illuminati mind programmer on how they train ordinary citizens and even children to kill targets of the Illuminati. These techniques can also be used against the Illuminati themselves. Hope this helps:

        Interview with Ex Illuminati Mind Programmer
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  • Profile picture of the author pzone
    Greed period. Bad lending practices and wall st's willingness to bundle bad mortgages and sell them as A+++ investments
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  • Profile picture of the author Steve Brown
    When we left the gold standard it allowed our econmy to grow but made everything decline in value. Now we just keep increasing our debt to fund our obsessions. What truly needs to happen is a balanced budget with no off budget items at a rate of 75% to 50% of the nations income tax income. If you want something, then move around money in the budget, don't borrow for it. Simplistic, yeah, but then I'm not an economist - I just keep my family afloat.
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  • Profile picture of the author Black Hat Cat
    Banned
    I blame bigfoot.
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    • Profile picture of the author Jared Alberghini
      Originally Posted by blackhatcat View Post

      I blame bigfoot.
      Why bring poor bigfoot into this... it's clearly the loch ness monster who is to blame.

      .jrd
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      • Profile picture of the author Kay King
        13 thanks posts - some people can't find the thanks button if it bites them in the ....

        1-4 words consistently does not constitute "participation"....am I talking to a bot????
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  • Profile picture of the author mmpieri
    In a situation like this, there is no real justification for pointing a finger of blame to anyone even to people that bought a house they knew they can't afford. As an entreprenuer, if you do your research well, this financial melt-down could make you a millionaire.

    MM
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    • Profile picture of the author derekwong28
      Blame is one thing but there is a big difference in level of guilt. I certainly would not place guilt on American consumers, except those who are involved in property speculation.

      As far as individuals are concerned, most financial commentaries put Greenspan at the top of the list. However, what he did was what he thought was right for his country, and certainly he was paid very poorly in terms of actual income.

      I would put the highest level of guilt to the greedy bankers who have bought their own institutions to their knees and are now asking for bailouts.

      Of course, guys like Madoff and Stanford are the worse in terms of guilt, although I don't think they play much of a role in causing the current crisis.


      Derek
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    • Profile picture of the author myob
      Originally Posted by mmpieri View Post

      In a situation like this, there is no real justification for pointing a finger of blame to anyone even to people that bought a house they knew they can't afford. As an entreprenuer, if you do your research well, this financial melt-down could make you a millionaire.

      MM
      Agreed. There is no point in placing blame. This may be the greatest opportunity since the Depression for building wealth for those with the foresight to seize the moment. Right now cash is KING. Buy up as much of the foreclosed houses and undervalued stocks as possible. It will come back.
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      • Profile picture of the author HeySal
        Originally Posted by myob View Post

        Agreed. There is no point in placing blame. This may be the greatest opportunity since the Depression for building wealth for those with the foresight to seize the moment. Right now cash is KING. Buy up as much of the foreclosed houses and undervalued stocks as possible. It will come back.
        Gee Paul - I have been waiting to see someone blame the mess on you. We know you've been hording all the money - time to give some of it back, Dude. Paypal will work for most of us.


        Once we adapted the FED, debt was inevitable. That is how the FED works. There is no money but what they produce, and there is a price on what they produce - how do you pay for something with something that doesn't exist? There's only one way. You borrow it from those who create it - at a price. More debt that is.
        There is NO WAY to pay off the debt with the current money system. It is a physical impossibility. It is also true that if the illegal system were dissolved - there would be no debt. It doesn't really exist any more than the money does. The ONLY THING that actually EXISTS in the slavery that it provides for a Power class.
        The ONLY way we are going to stop this before Billions die is to force our Government to END THE FED. The World bank must be dissolved. Period. Until a few years back no one even believed the FED wasn't part of the Government. Now we know - but it's still there.
        What the hell are people doing about it? Arguing who's fault it is that they are enslaving people of almost every country of the world right now. Sweet.
        LEE - you wonder where my attitude comes from? The only correct question to ask if we want to survive en mass now is "HOW do we force our government to end the FED?"
        Putin's asking it in Russia - and hopefully he has a whole lot of Allies asking it, too - our reps are too busy voting themselves larger paychecks to touch it - and our people are running around pointing fingers at each other instead of where the blame lies.
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        • Profile picture of the author myob
          Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

          Gee Paul - I have been waiting to see someone blame the mess on you. We know you've been hording all the money - time to give some of it back, Dude. Paypal will work for most of us. ...
          Give it back? To who? I already give back alot in my own community in the form of charitable donations and sponsorships. But I choose where my money goes. Nobody else.

          This attitude of some kind of entitlement that is owed by entrepreneurs to the poor and enslaved masses is the root of economic disaster. Why are the failures entitled to bailouts from those who have become successful?

          When you can accept the fact that the world doesn't owe you anything, and you are responsible for your own actions, and seize the opportunities that are abounding - that is the path to success.

          You cannot "force" the government to end the FED. Or change the world. But you can change your own economic condition by getting off your ass, quit whining about how life is unfair, and get to work.

          I've got 16 year old sales people making a very good living for themselves (and their families) because they know that no one is going to give them anything. Their is no bailout for kids with a heady responsibility to supplement their parents' income to keep their homes.

          Their attitude and opportunistic efforts are paying off bigtime and they are learning lessons early in life that puts bailout executives to shame.
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          • Profile picture of the author Phnx
            Originally Posted by myob View Post


            This attitude of some kind of entitlement that is owed by entrepreneurs to the poor and enslaved masses is the root of economic disaster. Why are the failures entitled to bailouts from those who have become successful?
            Isn't that what the bailouts are doing, or do you get a pass if you are one of the 'in crowd'?

            I'm sure you are very happy that the Government have guaranteed your savings (psst by the time the house of cards collapses there'll be nothing left in the pot for those who ain't 'them'). But the money they are guaranteeing it with is the result of the labour of ALL working people. Including those on minimum wage.

            What do you think 'interest' is? It's UNEARNED income, derived from greed. And it's all fine and dandy when those who 'have' get money that they haven't earned, but god forbid the peasants should attempt to get their snout in the trough too.

            Millions of people are either on minimum wage or not much more, and they never had much left over at the end of the month. Certainly not enough to build savings and get rewarded with free money. Many don't even have enough to make it to the end of the month at the moment. Read THIS (scroll down a bit): working class people stopping off at glorified soup kitchens to get breakfast before going to work because their paycheck no longer stretches to that. IN AMERICA! These are not the 'feckless unemployed', these are part of the backbone of nations along with the middle classes. What used to be referred to as the "salt of the earth". Yet their taxes are going to help protect YOUR savings as well as the richest people in the land. What was that you were saying about "entitlement". Those guys are being shafted by the super rich and the middle classes with savings.

            People bitching about the poor getting houses they can't afford is a joke. The corruption and greed of the banking sector got us in this mess. They know how stupid the masses are and how willing to blame other people - usually those who have the least - so they have no qualms about fleecing the public. We take it.

            They used our money to keep paying themselves obscene bonuses and it's business as usual for most of them. Why do they care if we squeal about it, we won't actually do anything to stop them. Any Government who was really trying to sort things out would have started lending money to businesses directly and let the banks fall. New ones will spring up, isn't that the 'free market' so beloved of capitalism? The fact that Governments are NOT doing this but giving more money to the banks even though they are STILL refusing to lend it out, should tell you that Governments are in collusion.

            So why do they want taxpayers money if they aren't going to lend it back out - which is what they claimed they needed to do? To protect their assets and steal yours. And they'll ask for more. And more. Until there is nothing left. They are printing money like it's going out of fashion and pretty soon we'll all be millionaires, just like those in Zimbabwe. But it'll be monopoly money and worth nothing. Only those at the very very top of the dungheap will still be left standing. They'll throw a few expendables to the wolves so they can say "see we are suffering too", and distract us from the problem. They have us blaming the poor; soon it'll be the immigrants, or a handful of renegade financiers, but it will NEVER be placed where it belongs.

            The system is rotten and corrupt to it's core. All of it. Madoff is just the tip of the iceberg: they are hunting another banker at the moment involved in massive fraud and drug running. Remember the BCCI banking scandal a while back? They didn't go away, they merely changed tactics.

            You watch, everything will unfold over the next few months and more banks will get 'nationalized'. I'm not against nationalization for vital assets but this isn't true nationalization it's just a means to consolidate power into the hands of fewer people. If you saw the Dunn & Bradsheet info you'll know that Governments are hiding an enormous secret - they are ALL registered commercial corporations - unbeknownst to us peons. Even The Haves are nothing more than bonded servants so have no cause to feel superior.

            Personally I think we should do similar to what the French did prior to their Revolution. After all, these criminals are doing the equivalent of saying "Let them eat cake". Drag them out of their mansions and beat them to within an inch of their lives. Well okay, maybe no violence, but take back everything they have stolen and put them in the poorhouse for a change.

            This crosses all political parties and the current Administration will not save us. As my Grandfather used to say, they all pee in the same pot.

            Former Assistant to The Treasury during Reagans Administration knows what they are up to.

            Paul Craig Roberts: Government of Thieves (scroll down a bit)

            Pam Martens: How the Banksters are Making a Killing Off the Bailout

            So bend over Paul, and let them screw you some more. 'Cause you know, they believe they are entitled. And them that Have are allowed to feel that way as it's the natural order of things. The Have Nots are not allowed because their purpose is to help The Haves get richer and they should stop whining about it the jealous little scrotes. But soon many of The Haves will become Have Nots and the view might start to look a little different.

            Look at the parallels between the food crisis and the financial meldown. You'll note they used a similar modus operandi to sucker the poor into taking those 'sub-prime' mortgages. Clever aren't they?

            Eric Toussaint: How the Food and Financial Crises are Interconnected (scrooolllll)

            World Food Crisis: Trading Lives

            But don't be feeling too smug when you are buying up all those foreclosures Paul, I fear they'll be getting around to you and others higher up the ladder soon enough.
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  • Profile picture of the author millionareteam
    not really sure...
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    • Profile picture of the author Jared Alberghini
      Originally Posted by millionareteam View Post

      not really sure...

      I'm not really sure that spam posts count here in the OT... you should try the Test Forum for boosting your post count.

      .jrd
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  • Profile picture of the author ideasuniversity
    Do we really need to blame anybody? Why don't we concentrate on how to make more money during this time? In ages past there had been recession and people survive it.
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  • Profile picture of the author waltham
    theres no one to blame. Its a MAss reflection of the consciousness of the Whole. We're changing, tired of the way wet take take take. The economy is just changing, shifting,theres tons of money, and alot more now..This is when we all get richer
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  • Profile picture of the author John M Kane
    ...What Sal said.
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    • Profile picture of the author myob
      ...What ideasuniversity said.
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  • Profile picture of the author implrseoetc
    Were all to blame .. bankers , consumers , governments , capitalism
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  • Profile picture of the author Phnx
    There appears to be another player in the game........

    If this isn't true then why did he say it? It appears to be an inadvertent admission, but it's huge.

    *****

    "In an admission stunning for its frankness (and particularly given the fact it originated with a politician whose country is held prisoner by foreign, criminal interests) Rep. Paul Kanjorski, (D, Penn) Chairman of the House's Capitol Markets Subcommittee recently admitted on C-SPAN that the current economic problems faced by-not just the United States, but indeed the entire world-were the result of an "electronic run on the bank" that resulted in the hemorrhaging of $550 billion dollars in just "an hour or 2".

    Speaking the last week of January on the Washington DC-based television program, Rep. Kanjorski was verbally accosted by an irate American caller charging that the economic stimulus package currently up for debate in the Congress (as well as the previous $700 billion bank-bailout) is solely for the benefit of fat cats on Wall Street rather than for Joe Six-pack on Mainstreet. With barely-concealed panic in his voice, the Congressman tried explaining the severity of the current financial problem faced by the US with the following comments-

    "Why did we do that? We did that because...Look, I was there when the Secretary of the Treasury and Chairman of the Federal Reserve came and talked with members of Congress about what was going on, it was about September the 15th...Here's the facts and we don't even talk about these things..."

    "On Thursday at about 11 am the Federal Reserve noticed a tremendous drawdown of money market accounts in the United States to the tune of 550 billion dollars, being drawn out in the matter of about an hour or 2. The Treasury opened up its window to help, pumped 105 billion dollars in the system and quickly realized they could not stem the tide...We were having an electronic run on the banks. They decided to close the operation, close down the money accounts and announce a guarantee of $250,000 per account so there wouldn't be further panic out there. If they had not done this, their estimation was that by 2 o'clock that afternoon, 5.5 trillion dollars would have been drawn out of the money market system of the United States, would have collapsed the entire economy of the United States, and within 24 hours the world economy would have collapsed..."

    "We talked about what would happen-it would have been the end of our economic and political system as we know it, and that's why we had to act and do things quickly. Why? Because if you don't have a banking system you don't have an economy, and although we did that it wasn't enough. The economy has been falling and we're really no better off today than we were 3 months ago, as other assets are going sour by the moment...Somebody threw us in the middle of the Atlantic ocean without a life raft and we're trying to determine which is the closest shore and whether there's any chance in the world to swim that far. We don't know..."****


    The full article:
    September 11th, 2008-Americas Economic 9/11? The Ugly Truth
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  • Profile picture of the author janicejan
    Why need to point fingers when we don't want to be headed in that direction? I say let's just forgive, never forget, and go on our ways. As history repeats itself, all the efforts gets back to the water.
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  • Profile picture of the author sloanjim
    politicians/banks/ greedy big business. The consumer for being so gullible.
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      Gullible?

      Like bumping a 3 year old thread with a one line comment?
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      Saving one dog will not change the world - but the world changes forever for that one dog
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  • Profile picture of the author Big Rob
    Bump to get my buddy Joes' attention
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    • Profile picture of the author Joseph Robinson
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Big Rob View Post

      I blame Joe Robinson for his relentless posting of funny pictures and failure to admit that he is actually Billy Donavons alter ego.
      Originally Posted by Big Rob View Post

      Bump to get my buddy Joes' attention
      You goading me into a response ?



      Look, I'll admit it takes a lot of resources to perform these image searches and to create an entire fake identity; but I hardly think I can be blamed for the whole financial crisis!
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  • Profile picture of the author Big Rob
    Dude, You totally make my day.

    P.s. Joe Rogan scares the crap outta me!
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  • Profile picture of the author hardraysnight
    what is the paypal id for usa government

    they appear not to have a donate button on their website
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    • Originally Posted by oncewerewarriors View Post

      what is the paypal id for usa government

      they appear not to have a donate button on their website
      Thanks for your support - We request you please donate in Euros...:rolleyes:
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