Card-jacked after buying PLR

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I'm wondering if anyone here would happen to be well-versed in the legal aspects of dealing with banks/credit card companies and could offer me tips or clarification on handling things with the bank.

My credit card number was stolen and fraudulent charges (hundreds of dollars total) made on March 15 and March 21. I discovered the charges at the end of March and immediately called the Wells Fargo fraud line to report it. The rep told me that I would receive a form in the mail from them in a few days that I should use to convey all the facts to them and report the fraud in writing.

Instead, I received a letter today wherein they stated "our investigation reveals that you provided apparent authority to the person or entity that initiated the transactions you have claimed as fraud. As a result, the transactions in question are valid and will remain on your account."

I went absolutely spastic when I saw this, because I definitely did NOT authorize the charges, which are completely foreign to me, and have no idea on what basis the bank is trying to claim that I would have authorized them (and am dying to know).

Another thing that I'm very curious about is whether it is possible that Wells Fargo has already violated some federal credit laws by "concluding" things that are highly adverse to me and denying the claim before even talking to me or letting me state my position and the facts. I'm wondering if there are solid grounds for a suit or punitive fines here.

By law, don't they have to cooperate with me in an investigation? The letter did give a phone number I could call, and I did call it but only got a "fraud prevention representative" who was just a claims rep and not any kind of fraud investigator, which is who I want to talk to. I was told I can call tomorrow and talk to a "claims specialist" which apparently is the same thing there as a fraud examiner, but I have a bad feeling that they are going to treat me as the guilty party (since they have already) and not give me access to whatever information they are claiming led them to believe that I authorized the charges... and if they do this, I am pretty confident that they will be violating some really basic rights of mine as a cardholder.

I'm willing to give them a sworn affidavit and file a police report and whatever else like that they may want, but I am not going to let them call me a liar, basically, which is what the letter they sent does, and stick me with hundreds of dollars in charges that some scumbag credit card thief stole from me after I had worked hard paying the card down for months.

The reason I mentioned PLR is because I know where the fraud had to have come from: the card was only exposed on the net (or anywhere else besides a major car rental agency one time in August 2011) one single time, and that was when I used it in January to buy a $10 PLR package from someone who, unfortunately, is a member here. Now, of course I'm not saying that I think that member necessarily is the one who pulled the fraud, because obviously it could easily have been someone else who had hacked into his data stream or something to get my number, but I think it's safe to say that his payment channel is definitely not secure.

The charges were made to a website that in the bank records appears as "www.eastwestenterp" which probably refers to eastwestenterprisesllc (dot) com which is a retail electronics site that is kind of mysterious for a retail store that ships stuff, because it has no way other than email addresses to contact them. I mean there is no info at all on the site about who they are, where they are, what their address is, or anything like that. When I tried to look up the Whois data, I found it has the "Domains By Proxy" block on it so I can't get any info.

Anyway, sorry for the long saga, but does anyone know

1. Whether there is a chance I have a lawsuit against Wells Fargo for some kind of cardholder rights violation if they refuse to cover the fraud and refuse to share with me all information they have in the matter, and

2. What the procedure is on things like this and what options I have (they're not very good about informing me of those things, and I've never gone through this before so I'm pretty uninitiated).

Thanks in advance,
A.C.
  • Profile picture of the author Entrecon
    A few things....

    First, information on East West Enterprises can be found here:
    Amazon.com At a Glance: East West Enterprises LLC
    They have a 201 area code phone number, but it says for charges made to the credit card to contact Amazon.

    Second, when you purchased the PLR, did the website your ordered from handle it, or was it handled by a processor like PayPal? There is a good chance that that WASN'T the source of the exposure. I had a card used with an online merchant fraudulently several years ago and that card had never been used online.

    Lastly, I am surprised at the Wells Fargo response. I have had to deal with a stolen card number a few times and on every occasion the bank sided with us first and the Merchant second. I am not sure why they reacted the way they did.

    Best of Luck!
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    • Profile picture of the author specialized
      Originally Posted by Entrecon View Post

      A few things....

      First, information on East West Enterprises can be found here:
      Amazon.com At a Glance: East West Enterprises LLC
      They have a 201 area code phone number, but it says for charges made to the credit card to contact Amazon.
      Thanks, I'll look into this, at least it's a lead to follow. But isn't Amazon another entity that you can't reach by phone? Contacting Amazon doesn't sound too promising.

      Originally Posted by Entrecon View Post

      Second, when you purchased the PLR, did the website you ordered from handle it, or was it handled by a processor like PayPal?
      It was a non-PayPal conduit---a straight Visa input. So, it was the site.

      Originally Posted by Entrecon View Post

      There is a good chance that that WASN'T the source of the exposure. I had a card used with an online merchant fraudulently several years ago and that card had never been used online.
      If that site wasn't the vector, then I have no idea how it happened. That card has sat in my wallet totally unused before and since the fraudulent charges (well now it's canceled, Wells Fargo shut it down instantly when I reported the fraud). I literally did not use it at all except for the car rental in August and the PLR purchase. I am assuming the major car rental agency wasn't where it happened, though I guess I can't know that. But the chances seem far less of that.

      Originally Posted by Entrecon View Post

      Lastly, I am surprised at the Wells Fargo response. I have had to deal with a stolen card number a few times and on every occasion the bank sided with us first and the Merchant second. I am not sure why they reacted the way they did.
      Imagine my own surprise! Here I was expecting paperwork that I would use to give their investigators information to look into this, and expecting cooperation from them, and instead I get that letter. I'm calling to talk to a "claims specialist" today but also will be sending in a written response. It makes sense that a written answer is the next major step because all legal stuff works off of written correspondence and not phone calls. Another example is taxes... you can talk to IRS "reps" on the phone all day long, and it won't make a shred of difference to your tax matter, but written correspondence is a factor.

      Originally Posted by Entrecon View Post

      Best of Luck!
      Thanks. I'll post back in this thread after the call to report what they say.
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      • Profile picture of the author Bill Farnham
        Originally Posted by specialized View Post

        If that site wasn't the vector, then I have no idea how it happened. That card has sat in my wallet totally unused before and since the fraudulent charges...
        This is just a FYI comment, but they now have card readers that can swipe information off the magnetic strip on your card just by being in close proximity such as boarding a bus or waiting in line at a crowded venue, as examples.

        If you keep your wallet in your back pocket you would never even know someone held that device up next to you.

        ~Bill
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  • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
    I feel for you, but seeking legal advice on a marketing forum probably isn't a very good way to go about obtaining legal advice. Almost everyone who replies will only be giving their opinion, which probably won't be grounded in a knowledge of the law.

    There are a few lawyers here, but the thing is, they're not YOUR lawyer, so I wouldn't expect much more than for them to tell you to seek qualified legal counsel.
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    • Profile picture of the author specialized
      Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post

      I feel for you, but seeking legal advice on a marketing forum probably isn't a very good way to go about obtaining legal advice. Almost everyone who replies will only be giving their opinion, which probably won't be grounded in a knowledge of the law.

      There are a few lawyers here, but the thing is, they're not YOUR lawyer, so I wouldn't expect much more than for them to tell you to seek qualified legal counsel.
      Yes, true enough... I know this and am not really seeking legal advice here as much as seeing if anyone has experience dealing with this kind of thing to get a general feel for my options.

      Retaining an attorney is totally out of the question for me cost-wise unless it is a contingency attorney, which is why I was asking of anyone knows whether Wells Fargo's broad action here generally violates any rights so that I might figure out whether a contingency attorney might be interested. I guess I will just have to call a few. I know that FCRA violations by credit reporting and collection agencies are good for slam-dunk fines if you catch them dead-to-rights, but when it is the card issuer itself doing the violating, I have no idea.

      Another aspect here is, I would really kick myself if I were to get Wells Fargo to reverse the charges off of me, but then later find out that I had them on a federal violation with the claim denial and it was worth $10,000 or something like that to me. I have a strong feeling that someone (or maybe their computers) went off half-cocked in sending that letter.
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  • Profile picture of the author quicklynx
    You could take them to small claims court. They'll settle and you get your claim money back and charges waived next business day. As for the interception of your credit card #, there is a chance that you have malware or something on your computer recording your keystrokes just as much as you believe the other guy is vulnerable.

    I personally would charge-back and request a new card number. You can do charge-backs with a visa/mastercard. If this place that charged you claims to have sold you goods then ask them for the delivery confirmation.

    Hope this helps.
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    • Profile picture of the author specialized
      Originally Posted by quicklynx View Post

      You could take them to small claims court. They'll settle and you get your claim money back and charges waived next business day. As for the interception of your credit card #, there is a chance that you have malware or something on your computer recording your keystrokes just as much as you believe the other guy is vulnerable.

      I personally would charge-back and request a new card number. You can do charge-backs with a visa/mastercard. If this place that charged you claims to have sold you goods then ask them for the delivery confirmation.

      Hope this helps.
      Thanks quicklynx (and thanks to everyone who replied!). Small claims is certainly an option in reserve...

      The chargeback option is puzzling to me... should I really do a chargeback when I wasn't the one who made the charges? Wouldn't doing so suggest that I was the one who made the charges in the first place (I wasn't)?
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  • Profile picture of the author KimW
    I'm not surprised at all at Wells Fargo's response. Banks no longer work for the customer,they work for other corporations like themselves.
    I had a similar experience with a well known company,I won't say there name but they have a product that sounds a lot like YirgoFax.
    When I closed my shop I cancelled my service with them.
    Of course I kept my bank account open because I had bills that were going to still be coming in after I closed such as end of service bills for phone,electricity,gas,and other things,etc etc.
    Turns out after I cancelled the above mentioned service,they continued to take their monthly fee out of my account.
    I'd go to the bank and explain I had cancelled their service and I wanted my money back. The bank said ok.
    Then a few days later I got another notice saying the company again had pulled the money out.
    I went to the bank and asked what was going on.
    Well, the virgofax company claimed I had improperly cancelled my contract and they were going to continue taking the money out every month,and my bank said they could!
    They bank told me that the companies right to my bank account superceded my own rights!!
    I argued with them for 3 months about this and they always sided with the other company.
    In the end I had to close the bank account to stop the illegal transactions by the other company.
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    • Profile picture of the author specialized
      Originally Posted by KimW View Post

      I'm not surprised at all at Wells Fargo's response. Banks no longer work for the customer,they work for other corporations like themselves.
      I had a similar experience with a well known company,I won't say there name but they have a product that sounds a lot like YirgoFax.
      When I closed my shop I cancelled my service with them.
      Of course I kept my bank account open because I had bills that were going to still be coming in after I closed such as end of service bills for phone,electricity,gas,and other things,etc etc.
      Turns out after I cancelled the above mentioned service,they continued to take their monthly fee out of my account.
      I'd go to the bank and explain I had cancelled their service and I wanted my money back. The bank said ok.
      Then a few days later I got another notice saying the company again had pulled the money out.
      I went to the bank and asked what was going on.
      Well, the virgofax company claimed I had improperly cancelled my contract and they were going to continue taking the money out every month,and my bank said they could!
      They bank told me that the companies right to my bank account superceded my own rights!!
      I argued with them for 3 months about this and they always sided with the other company.
      In the end I had to close the bank account to stop the illegal transactions by the other company.
      Wow Kim, not an encouraging story at all... sorry you went through that. I hope this doesn't end up going that type of direction. Needless to say, as soon as I get this settled, I am dumping Wells Fargo and going with a small community credit union like I should have to begin with.
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      • Profile picture of the author Dave Patterson
        Originally Posted by specialized View Post

        Wow Kim, not an encouraging story at all... sorry you went through that. I hope this doesn't end up going that type of direction. Needless to say, as soon as I get this settled, I am dumping Wells Fargo and going with a small community credit union like I should have to begin with.
        I can't say too much good about that idea. I love my local credit union!
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      • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
        Originally Posted by specialized View Post

        Yes, true enough... I know this and am not really seeking legal advice here as much as seeing if anyone has experience dealing with this kind of thing to get a general feel for my options.
        Fair enough. Good luck.

        Originally Posted by specialized View Post

        Needless to say, as soon as I get this settled, I am dumping Wells Fargo and going with a small community credit union like I should have to begin with.
        I use a credit union exclusively and have for decades. Much more customer-friendly in my experience. I think you'll be glad you did.

        Several years ago a bought a new computer online through perhaps the most well-known computer company there is. They charged me for five computers, and despite the fact they only shipped one computer and kept promising to refund the overcharge, after two months they had only refunded 25% of the overcharge. I filed one fraud paper with my credit union and had my 9k back in a matter of days.
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    You can also just wrap them in tinfoil or put your wallet in an electro-static bag.

    I dealt with Wells Fargo once. My bank was bought out by them. They came in stealing so much from everyone that when a check of mine bounced, the business never charged me for the bounce - they were trying to get $1,500 stolen funds back from that bank.

    I closed out of Wells Fargo within the first month and you could not pay me enough to let them even look at my money again.
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  • Profile picture of the author specialized
    Thanks for the comments everyone!

    About the remote card reading---wow. I thought you had to physically swipe it. That is really wild, they can do it right through your wallet and pants? Jeez. When will they have a remote colonoscopy that works like that?

    Well the next phase of the story goes like this. I called them again today and basically replayed the same conversation I had with them the day before. According to the rep I talked to today, this is the standard way they do things: deny first, making the next move the cardholder's. I told her I thought that was lame policy that will further alienate their customers (as if they care).

    When I asked on exactly what basis they had concluded that I had authorized the fraudulent purchases, she told me that it was because... get this... I had made a payment on the card subsequent to the fraudulent charges occurring, which to them constitutes my de facto acceptance of the charges! Can you believe that? I told her I was amazed at the stupidity of that policy too. My mistake here was making a payment without scrutinizing the account (which didn't seem necessary seeing as how the card hadn't been used since January... lesson learned).

    But, she said, it's okay, just fax or mail a written answer to the denial letter which they call a "reconsideration letter"... this is done every day, she said... very common. So I wrote a detailed and fairly scathing three-page letter---maybe not scathing, but let's call it extremely adamant. I faxed that today. Apparently they will get that and "reconsider" my claim. Between that letter and the three calls I have made to them, I think their genius claims specialists should be able to piece together that I am not trying to pull a fraud on my own credit card.

    The whole thing really made me wonder how many people out there that have more of an aversion than I do to confronting huge corporate institutions just knuckle under when faced with that type of letter, defeated, without doing anything. I know there must be some. I'm glad I'm not one of them.

    Definitely looking forward to getting it ironed out so I can dump Wells Fargo like a rotten Halloween pumpkin. They may have been the good guys back in the 1800s, but they are the bad guys now.
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  • Profile picture of the author Entrecon
    The payment thing kind of makes sense. In my case my wife puts over the bills and noticed any discomfited. If course, in the one case the credit card company called us when someone all of a sudden was using our card to buy a bunch of western union money orders!
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