Wrong man was executed in Texas

Death penalty is a bad thing. In my opinion, no one have the right to take another person's life no matter what the person has done!

The death penalty has nothing to do in the Western World!

It doesn't make me rethink the death penalty itself - I think it is more than called for in certain circumstances - it reinforces my opinion of the travesty that the criminal justice system is. Prosecutorial misconduct, inane court rules that prevent retrials even in the face of obvious mistakes, police misconduct and outright stupidity, and not least, the complete and utter unreliability of eyewitnesses, combine to put the average person in fear of their lives at any contact with any part of the system.

They get it wrong more often than you will ever hear about -- sometimes with full awareness of it.

I agree with you taskemann. There's too many ways for mistakes to be made - too many people that are evil enough to take advantage of it.

I'm with Steve on this one. There are different times and circumstances that merit the death penalty. When there in no doubt involved of the criminal doing the crime.
But I disagree with Steve in that I feel there are more and more cases every day where the doubt is removed.

Recent attacks at fast food joints,recent attacks at colleges, recent attacks at high schools, recent attacks at random places in the public.
If someone pulls out an ak47 or a mini uzi and opens fire on innocent bystanders. The doubt of guilt disappears in my opinion.

There should be no life in prison for someone like that. Because of "no death penalty" people we have given people like Charles Mason everything he needs for a comfortable life since the 1970s.

Instead of no death penalty we need a less fallable system of determining the guilt. Modern science,with DNA testing is finally catching up with the judicial system.

Welcome to Texas - The "He needed killin' state" :rolleyes:

Ron White on the State of Texas' Death Penalty
"I'm from Texas. In Texas we have the death penalty and we USE IT! That's right... if you come to Texas and kill somebody, we kill you back. That's our policy.
They're trying to push a bill right now in the Texas legislature that'll speed up the process of execution in heinous crimes where there are more than three credible eye witnesses. If more than three people saw you do what you did, you don't sit on death row for fifteen years, you go straight to the front of the line.
Other states are trying to abolish the death penalty. My state is putting in an express lane..."

I live in Texas, But I hate the death plenty!

I think we should just give them life (Even if they did do the crime) I think we should leave the justice up to god (Or the universe or whatever you want)

Killing someone is not the way to get justice because it will not bring back that person and it doesn't make sense to kill the person that did it.

The more and more I think about it the more and more it makes me sick

Wow that sucks majorly.

I'm a firm believer in an eye for an eye but the death penalty as it stands is not an eye for an eye. It's murder disguised as retribution.

But it's still OK because killing society's miscreants makes us safer... right?

If some madman rapes and kills children. Of course he should die. After the trial, the parents of the children should cut slits all over his body, douse him with kerosene and burn him alive. That's retribution.

But that's not what will happen, he will waste 250K of state money, then be put to sleep in the same comfort as a well-loved 17 year old euthanized dog.

We can't have it both ways. Either we want to be a humane, human rights centered society or we want our pound of flesh.

If a pound of flesh is what we say is owed for certain crimes then let's get out there and get it. Stop hiding the executions and let's return to public hangings.

But no.
We don't want to get our hands dirty and we're much too civilized to torture.
Instead we'd rather pay a few hundred thousand for the state to do it nice quiet and clean. Where regular Joe Blow can feel safe in his bed at night knowing someone else will kill all the bad people and that he's still a good person because there's no blood on his hands.

That's what makes America great,we can all have our own opinions.
Mine is that there is a place for the death penalty in our society.
Will it or does it stop everyone that is thinking about committing illegal or immoral crimes.
No, sure doesn't.
But if it stops that 1 in 1000 or 1 in 10,000 or 1 in 100,000 than that is preventing enough for me.

I can tell you there are probably hundreds of thousands of people that were against the death penalty,until one of their loved ones was attacked,raped,or even murdered, then reality changes everything.

Halcyon,
I agree that the process is too long and involved.
It should be like this.
January myself and 6 others are witness to a person killing another person.
There is no doubt it happens the way all 7 of of say it did. ( any random number)
By January 31st the killer should be executed by that date.
Next,
No appeals, no miscarriages of justice. No 11 years on death row.

I'm sure I posted in another thread that my niece was murdered some years back, 22, had her whole life ahead of her. Was trying to become a model.They also believe that date rape drug was used. The incompetent Hawaii 5-0 did not find the murderers,but the theory is they knew who it was and covered it up. But if they had found arrested and convicted them, I would be the first in line to pull the trigger,pull the plug, pull the lever or perform any other action that would be required to rid the planet of the scum.
Does our country make it too sanitized? It sure does.
And you're right that seeing a real execution reality changes again.
Giving a man a shot to put him to sleep then dropping cyanide in a bucket is like putting a pet to sleep. He has to die a humane death some say. Why? Is that what separates us from what he/she is? I don't think so.
I'd have it televised if it was up to me.

As far as consoling the mother, I can understand that. Some people are just bad, no matter how good of a loving home they came from. I couldn't and wouldn't blame other family members for what 1 did.

same truth about the victim's mother.

The inherent flaw with the death penalty is that it doesn't work as a deterrent.

It doesn't matter how many murderers, rapists, etc. are killed, the crimes continue.

Revenge is not the same as justice.

And justice is not the same as revenge.

The flaw is not that it doesn't work as a deterrent, the flaw is that it doesn't work as a deterrent anymore.

Since it has become, as has been mentioned numerous times in this thread already, so sanitized and cleaned up so that people really can say the words but not deal with the reality. it has lost its effectiveness.

And the very last thing I ever want to see happen is what the OP posted about in this thread, an innocent individual being killed by the state for something he did not do.

But of course people differ on the opinion of its effectiveness. I'm not here to convince anyone to my way of thinking.I've just voiced my opinion as all that have posted here are welcome to do.

And since my niece was murdered I am certainly biased in my viewpoint.
And my opinion has also changed since I was younger. When I was young and very liberal minded I was against the death penalty. I'm older and it has changed again. No one idea or situation changed it,but many different factors.

And my opinion has not changed about any of you that I consider my friends because of your beliefs as I hope none have changed because of mine.

This case is from the 1980s - and I don't think any jury today would agree to a death penalty only on eye witness testimony.

I do think there are times when the death penalty makes sense - but today the forensics available are far more advanced.

If evidence - or admissions - clearly shows the person killed others deliberately...the death penalty suits some crimes.

Putting one murdered to death doesn't stop others - but it makes damned sure that person won't do it again.

Judging from the two murderers and the rapists pardoned by the exiting Governor in this state - you can't trust convicted killers will stay behind bars. The good old boy system here allows the Gov to pardon people as he leaves office - based on the criminals assigned to work at the governor's mansion or to please friends or influential people.

In this case a man who stalked and then murdered his ex-wife - and admitted doing it - cut the Governor's grass and got a full pardon.

Kenmichaels,
That's pretty much saying and agreeing with what I said.

Of course every case is different, and I also stated earlier that the burden of proof needs to be absolute. We have much better scientific means of determination than ever before. At the same time I said those that there is no doubt should be dealt with quickly.
We even supposedly promise a fair and speedy trial,not one that can take 15 appeals and 27 years to complete.

It ought to, but I'm afraid it really doesn't: some (many?) of the people on one side of that particular fence already "know that they're right", so they don't need to examine any potential evidence to the contrary, and psychologists report that even when they do, paradoxically, it serves only to entrench their own position. :p

-Chris

What a tragic story. As has been said here, there are many people who have been executed who were not guilty.

The problem is the system. If any of you have sat on a jury, you might have witnessed jurors who have been sequestered for a long time and when it's time to return a verdict, they just want to go home. It's sad but it's true.

If there is a lone juror who is not in agreement with the rest of jurors, there is extreme pressure to change that juror's mind. And yes, just so everyone can go home.

It is incredibly stressful to sit on a jury and a murder trial is the worst. You feel the weight on your shoulders - you are in a position that will determine someone's life or death.

Another flaw in the system is representation. Money will buy you the defense but what about the person who gets the court appointed representation? That certainly doesn't level the playing field. I'd hate to see the statistics of cases that were tried were the defendant had access to the best defense money can buy versus a court appointed attorney.

I know you can't have this both ways, but if it was possible, I believe in the death penalty for someone who is accused of a terrible crime and is guilty beyond a shadow of a doubt (video, dozens of witnesses whose testimony is air tight) versus the cases where there is very little material evidence coupled with a high powered suit who has the ability to create "reasonable" doubt.

It seems to me at least that those of us that are for it want to make sure there is indisputable proof.

Thom:
"Name one punishment for any crime that works as a deterrent."

Someone has even said in this thread that they are sure that in some level of consciousness that the death penalty has deterred them.

Thom:
"I'd bet that every single person visiting this forum breaks one law or another every day and may not even know it."

I'm sure you are right,but that's is also because our country makes so many laws but removes very few.Our penal code (and civil code) is full of so many outdated laws that one can't help to break the law.
Our justice system need a total overhaul and rewrite.

Whateva:
"Exactly. They all rely on "punishment" being administered after the deed."
Of course they do, you believe in punishing before any wrongdoing is done?

This happens because we actually don't administer the DP correctly. As such much of our time and resources are used vainly.

"IF" we didn't let criminals live years upon years on death row before putting them to death and instead administered a speedy trial and upon having been found guilty a quick execution....

then....

Murder rates would drop drastically and innocent people wouldn't be found guilty of a murder they didn't commit.

Because of how we administer punishment in our legal system those great people are over worked and over loaded with case work which basically translates to over sights and errors.

Additional benefits to a quick trial and speedy execution is that the tax payer need not support a criminal for years on end in jail. = )

Rus Sells,
I said the same thing already,but you probably said it better than I did.
I agree with you.

I speak only for myself,but the law and the consequences have prevented me from doing serious harm to several people in my lifetime.
And I am normally a very non violent person.
Like Thom, I believe in karma,but it isn't the bad karma that would come my way from following though,it it the legal repercussions.
So to me,the law is a deterrent.

"I don't know Kim, the legal repercussions would be some pretty serious bad karma"

LOL. touche~! Thom!!