Hourly rates vs Fixed price?

12 years ago

I always work on fixed rate because I don't know exactly how long a job will take but I usually have a fair idea. However, I may start a job and leave it and go back later to finish it off so I don't want to be bothered with measuring my actual time on it.

Thanks

Signature

Cheers, Laurence.
Writer/Editor/Proofreader.

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6263554].message }}

KimW

12 years ago

My hourly rate is always fixed.

[ 1 ] Thanks

Signature

Read A Post.
Subscribe to a Newsletter
KimWinfrey.Com

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6264014].message }}

SteveJohnson

12 years ago

Your assumption is that people who charge by the hour 'cheat' and are 'unethical' in their business dealings.

It is quite often impossible to know the amount of time it will take to finish a certain task. You're saying that in these situations it is the seller's burden to bear?

The fixed rates that I may quote for a job are based on how long I think it will take, multiplied by my internal hourly rate.

What about jobs that don't take as long as I thought they would? Should I lower the price?

Thanks
1 reply

Signature

The 2nd Amendment, 1789 - The Original Homeland Security.

Gun control means never having to say, "I missed you."

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6264025].message }}

Masterminding

12 years ago

Originally Posted by SteveJohnson

Your assumption is that people who charge by the hour 'cheat' and are 'unethical' in their business dealings.

It is quite often impossible to know the amount of time it will take to finish a certain task. You're saying that in these situations it is the seller's burden to bear?

The fixed rates that I may quote for a job are based on how long I think it will take, multiplied by my internal hourly rate.

What about jobs that don't take as long as I thought they would? Should I lower the price?

I'm with Steve here. Try employing a team of people who ARE paid by the hour (because that's what "official" companies do) and THEN agreeing to do fixed price projects while still making a project... and then come back and talk to me

In other words: a fixed price project can come back to haunt you, especially if you don't make an agreement in which you clearly state the following...

If you want more changes/improvements then the ones defined in this agreement, then it will cost MORE money and a NEW agreement will have to be made.

If you don't do that, then what's stopping the according to you oh so holy client from not paying you because he/she thinks the work is not done (because they make sure it's never done).

It goes both ways my friend. Hourly rates can be scammed by contractor, while fixed price can be scammed by contractee.

[ 1 ] Thanks

Signature

â€œHe will win who knows when to fight and when not to fight. He will win who, prepared himself, waits to take the enemy unpreparedâ€ â€“ Sun Tzu

Check out the Motriz Marketing blog for a funny yet informative, brutally honest look at the IM world in general and SEO in particular.

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6271530].message }}

Alexa Smith

Banned 12 years ago

Originally Posted by PimpinRice

My argument is that hourly rates isn't a good way to do business with.

I completely agree.

Customers want to know how much the job's going to cost them.

I haven't been a service provider for a long time, now, but when I was, I always worked on the basis of my own hourly rate (not discussed with customers), quoted a price for the work according to my own estimate of how long it would take me according to what I'd learned/worked out about the work, and lived with the consequences (occasionally to my detriment, I admit).

My customers needed to know that an article of around "x" length, on "y" subject, making "z" point(s), was going to cost them $80, or whatever, not how much I charged per hour and how long I thought it would probably take me.

Customers, I think, are fully entitled to assume that someone selling their expertise is able to judge how much work's going to be involved in it, after all, and quote a price accordingly.

Service sellers, I think are liable to lose quite a bit of credibility (and maybe a few customers, too) if someone asks, effectively, "How much to achieve this specified outcome?" and the only answer they can offer is "Dunno, depends how long it takes me".

I suspect that which side of the fence people are on, with this question, depends on whether they think service providers should look at the market from their customers' perspective rather than from their own. To me, that always went without saying.

[ 1 ] Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6264051].message }}

SteveJohnson 12 years ago

Originally Posted by Alexa Smith

and lived with the consequences (occasionally to my detriment, I admit).

And the other occasions were, technically, to the customer's detriment. If they weren't, you wouldn't have had the extra profit built up to be able to absorb the loss.

I don't disagree with the sentiment for fixed pricing, by the way. The answer, though, isn't so cut-and-dried beneath the surface.
- Thanks
- 1 reply
Signature

The 2nd Amendment, 1789 - The Original Homeland Security.

Gun control means never having to say, "I missed you."
{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6264160].message }}
- Alexa Smith Banned 12 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by SteveJohnson
  
  And the other occasions were, technically, to the customer's detriment.
  
  Incorrect. The customer got the job done at the price agreed (and typically came back for more). I think you'd have had a hard time convincing them that it was "to their detriment". Nice try, though.
  
  The outcome, of course, was that my overall, net hourly rate actually worked out to be a little lower than the figure I'd had in mind. But for the sake of looking at it from the customer's perspective, giving people the type of information that most helped them, and building my business, that seemed a small price to pay.
  
  Originally Posted by SteveJohnson
  
  If they weren't, you wouldn't have had the extra profit built up to be able to absorb the loss.
  
  I didn't.
  
  Originally Posted by SteveJohnson
  
  The answer, though, isn't so cut-and-dried beneath the surface.
  
  No, I accept that: I think some lines of work perhaps lend themselves more easily to fixed prices than others do.
  
  Thanks
  
  1 reply
  
  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6264609].message }}
  
  MoneyMagnetMagnate 12 years ago
  
  Let's use a Mechanic to consider this argument:
  
  When you go to service your car, there are shops that charge an hourly rate - let's say, 100/hr - and others that have "book rate" - The mechanic looks at a job in the shop book, and charges by the hours given.
  
  If the job says 4.5 hours, and to charge $500 - but he knows he can do it in 3 hrs...he comes out ahead -
  
  But for some unknown glitch in the repair, it takes him 6 hours to complete?
  
  Thanks
  
  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6264716].message }}

candres79

12 years ago

I do both but prefer to do a fixed price in most cases

Thanks

Signature

Regards,
Candres
Powerful Internet MarketingPowerful Internet Maketing

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6264066].message }}

KimW

12 years ago

You really can't give a definitive answer based on the provided information.
When I had my shop and someone wanted a part installed or a custom built machine, Sure I could give them a fixed price. I knew how much parts would cost and from past experience how much time would be involved.
Yet if I went on site and had to set something up, it would usually be an hourly rate agreed upon by both parties because there were too many unknown variables that could affect the completion of the job.

Thanks

Signature

Read A Post.
Subscribe to a Newsletter
KimWinfrey.Com

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6264116].message }}

SteveJohnson

12 years ago

Originally Posted by PimpinRice

Guys, I just came off from an argument about which is better hourly rates of a fixed price. I was arguing from the Fixed price side and my opponent was from hourly rates.

My argument is that hourly rates isn't a good way to do business with.

1. It is not trust-able.
The price can be set at any point and given time when the seller is ready or decided to cheat their ways in to make it more time effective. Spending more time doens't necessarily mean more quality stuff. The seller is using an unethical pricing process that is blinded by the clients eye and knowledge. There isn't a real way to know when the seller is actually working or not. Not only that, but hourly rates have a bigger rate for scamming.

2. Fixed price is reliable.
A fix price is reliable because it justifies the proper tag that isn't invisible and can warn the clients that they understand what they're really paying for. Has less scams and can be refunded quite easily.

Well there is more to fixed price I can give.

If you want to provide an argument please do so. Or post something useful or such as criticism for both argument.

You seem to be basically distrustful of people who sell their services.

When a service is involved, fixed-price pricing will very rarely be equitable for both parties. It isn't often that the internal time estimate that the fixed price is based upon is to-the-dot accurate. That makes it a win-lose business deal, doesn't it? Someone wins, someone loses, based on the actual time the job took.

Just be aware that when you're paying a fixed price from a service provider, you're likely subsidizing other people's jobs. You're probably paying more than you would had you contracted the job on an hourly basis with an honest provider.

[ 1 ] Thanks

Signature

The 2nd Amendment, 1789 - The Original Homeland Security.

Gun control means never having to say, "I missed you."

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6264139].message }}

Nicola Lane

12 years ago

It depends on the job!

If I can control how long a job takes me - then I can accept a piecework payment. But if I don't have that control = then I need payment by the hour.

Thanks
1 reply

Signature

I like to keep an open mind, but not so open that my brains fall out

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6264539].message }}

MissTerraK 12 years ago

I do work by fixed rates and have been doing so based on experience in doing the work I do.

If for some reason, I take longer then that is on me and I would never dream of putting that on my client.

That being said, obviously with varying degrees of uncertainty as in repair that may take longer depending on what is found, one would be charging for parts and labor. Then again, isn't there a fixed price for certain parts and for labor.

I believe that is why in this line of work, estimates are given. But aren't customers told how much labor cost is per hour?

Terra
- Thanks
{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6264607].message }}

wizzard1222

12 years ago

I use both...depending upon the project....!

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6265163].message }}

SteveJohnson

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Alexa Smith

And the other occasions were, technically, to the customer's detriment.

Incorrect. The customer got the job done at the price agreed (and typically came back for more). I think you'd have had a hard time convincing them that it was "to their detriment". Nice try, though.

The outcome, of course, was that my overall, net hourly rate actually worked out to be a little lower than the figure I'd had in mind. But for the sake of looking at it from the customer's perspective, giving people the type of information that most helped them, and building my business, that seemed a small price to pay.

But it IS correct, in terms of your statement that your absorbing the extra time on a job was to your detriment. If you weren't able to absorb the loss of time from profits gained from other jobs (from which you paid the 'small price'), you wouldn't be able to stay in business. That your "overall, net hourly rate actually worked out to be a little lower than the figure I'd had in mind" is an issue that you as a business owner must have an answer for, and continually evaluate: "Is, overall, my net hourly rate enough to let me continue on in business knowing that I may sustain losses from time to time?"

A singular client job can't be a zero-sum event when a person is in business. Problems must be anticipated, and contingencies planned for. That necessarily increases the level of gross profit that must be charged to keep the business sustainable.

From a purely technical point of view, that means that a subset of a business's clientele is subsidizing another. That's just business.

[ 1 ] Thanks

Signature

The 2nd Amendment, 1789 - The Original Homeland Security.

Gun control means never having to say, "I missed you."

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6266256].message }}

Dennis Gaskill

12 years ago

The notion that hourly rates are not trustable is nonsense, IMO. If you don't trust the party you shouldn't be doing business with them. You can "be taken" whether you pay by the hour or the job.

As for a fixed price being reliable, there are plenty of folks out there who will sell you their service at the price you want to pay, but they may cut a lot of corners to get their price down to that point.

An example is someone I know contracted a company to blow insulation into the walls of an older home that had none. They got it at the price they wanted, but that winter some rooms were still quite cold. The reason? The contractor never insulated those rooms. Not one bit. He stopped when HIS expenses reached a certain point and called it done.

Fixed price, hourly rate - pfft! What I want is the job done right, and I'm willing to pay a fair price for it whether it's by the job or the hour.

[ 2 ] Thanks
1 reply

Signature

Just when you think you've got it all figured out, someone changes the rules.

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6267333].message }}

MoneyMagnetMagnate

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill

The notion that hourly rates are not trustable is nonsense, IMO. If you don't trust the party you shouldn't be doing business with them. You can "be taken" whether you pay by the hour or the job.

As for a fixed price being reliable, there are plenty of folks out there who will sell you their service at the price you want to pay, but they may cut a lot of corners to get their price down to that point.

An example is someone I know contracted a company to blow insulation into the walls of an older home that had none. They got it at the price they wanted, but that winter some rooms were still quite cold. The reason? The contractor never insulated those rooms. Not one bit. He stopped when HIS expenses reached a certain point and called it done.

Fixed price, hourly rate - pfft! What I want is the job done right, and I'm willing to pay a fair price for it whether it's by the job or the hour.

Were you thinking of Lawyers? :rolleyes: it has always made me wonder how they can account for their billable hours sometimes...:p

Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6268138].message }}

Dennis Gaskill 12 years ago

Originally Posted by MoneyMagnetMagnate

Were you thinking of Lawyers? :rolleyes: it has always made me wonder how they can account for their billable hours sometimes...:p

I wasn't thinking of any profession, and yet I was including all of them.

As for your point of curiosity, I'll let Brian Kindsvator answer that for you.
- Thanks
Signature

Just when you think you've got it all figured out, someone changes the rules.
{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6268245].message }}

seasoned

12 years ago

Alexa,

Don't you charge by a metric, such as by the word or length?

When determining the cost of a custom job, SOMEONE is likely to get CHEATED!

Look at what I am doing now! It is hourly. If it were fixed, I would tell them to take a flying leap! They have a STUPID way of doing things, and keep reverting code. You have to HOPE that you get your code DONE and migrated by some invisible timeline that could be a month from now, or 5 seconds ago, or you lose EVERYTHING! In some cases I fixed problems 3 times already.

I had a special hourly deal with a guy in 2003-2004, and ended up working for his customer constantly changing the tinyest things, even words in a contract, creating graphics, etc... Because of our agreement, etc... I did the work for free. The guy smply gave a friend of mine some free bandwidth. BTW he complained when I said he should pay me $55/hour for time outside of the contract. The ONLY other person that would do it charged $250/hour for ALL time! The KICKER? NO time was spent outside of the contract so he paid NOTHING for months of work. I did EVERYTHING originally asked for and provided MANY revisions outside of scope.

IMAGINE if either were fixed. For fixed, there are generally TWO ways to do it. In MY business, they usually take expected hours, and multiply that by some multiple of the hourly rate. Scope is often AGRESSIVELY adhered to. If the provider gets it done on time, it may cost the customer 3-4 times as much as it would if it were hourly.

The OTHER way, which is what some service people do, is based on a standard hour basis. AGAIN, it may cost the provider if problems occur.

But if you had seen some things I have had to put up with. I GO IN trying to save the customer money. I tell them what I need, and ask them to get it. It is often stuff that is cheap or FREE!!!!!!! I mean $42 for a key that could save MILLIONS? WHAT A DEAL! How about a password(FREE) that can save millions? I am NOT exagerating. but they will just throw the money down a toilet.

Steve

Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6267356].message }}

Alexa Smith Banned 12 years ago

Originally Posted by seasoned

Alexa,

Don't you charge by a metric, such as by the word or length?

Because that would have meant I'd be doing some $80 jobs in a quarter of the time it took to do others. I was able (effectively) to select the ones I wanted to do more reasonably and more fairly (to both sides) by estimating how long it would take me, really, even if I wasn't always 100% accurate at that. Which inevitably depended on how much I knew about the subject in the first place.

If I'd been doing it full time, or had done it for much longer, I might have evolved more toward that sort of arrangement, though: I see that it's a perfectly reasonable one, and it still enables you to give the client the information he needs to have in order to decide whom to employ.

Originally Posted by seasoned

Look at what I am doing now! It is hourly. If it were fixed, I would tell them to take a flying leap!

Actually I've often wondered what you do, Steve, but never known, to be honest.
- Thanks
- 1 reply
{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6269811].message }}
- seasoned 12 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Alexa Smith
  
  Actually I've often wondered what you do, Steve, but never known, to be honest.
  
  When I spoke of "doing now", I meant the current customer only. I do computer consulting.
  
  Steve
  
  [ 1 ] Thanks
  
  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6271504].message }}

HKSEO Jonbones

12 years ago

In general 'Hourly' rates are for 'those' types of hotels...daily rates usually get you the more upscale places, but then You have to find more expensive....'dates'

Thanks

Signature

Letmeknowseo.comSEO News and tips From real SEO'ers!
Linklicious- Get your links crawled, so they can count
SEO Black Book By: R.L. Adams An Insider's Guide to the SEO Industry
Glowing Reviews- Get your Online Business Reviews to STICK!

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6271544].message }}

alicejhon11

Banned 12 years ago

[DELETED]

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6274530].message }}

seasoned 12 years ago

Originally Posted by alicejhon11

I definitely prefer to Fixed price plus commission based salary for extra working hours.

WOW! Suppose that it were somehow patented and really took off, and made 10% and the person got a 6% commission. YOU would pay them 60% of the profit FOREVER rather than $50 NOW? WOW!

Anyway, talk about DISHONEST! Movies, audio, etc... Are DIFFERENT! There are special rights ALL OVER and the content and notoriety sell. SO, in a way, there IS an automatic patent.

For programming, most of the time, fixed price WON'T WORK! My father once got a fixed quote to put on a home addition. *****THREE***** big problems!

1. HE wanted to add a hall and wash area. OBVIOUSLY, this meant he needed water, gas, a drain, a new wall, etc...
2. HE wanted to add a phone line. SOUNDS SIMPLE, RIGHT? WRONG!!!!!!! It was an old home that only had ONE line! The builders couldn't attach a line that didn't exist, and the phone company would have to rip up half the property to install one! They had to determine where they could dig, so the city had to come out. They then had to cut through the drive way, and they moved the point of demarcation to the other side of the house to avoid having to dig all around it.

3. The home had an unexpected drain problem raising the cost AGAIN!!!!!

A LOT of times, people try to SNEAK things in, like a template for a website, localization for a program, logo design for printing, or a new line for a room addition. Sometimes, there is a mistake on the other side, or they try to be nice, and throw it in. But many don't seem to appreciate THAT!

A LOT of my problems in my job are due to something SOOOOO common it has a nice short name! "SCOPE CREEP"! That refers to the slow accumulation of tasks into the agreed on scope.

Steve
- Thanks
{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6274943].message }}

PimpinRice

10 years ago

The real question is how do we, the customer, know we are not being scooped by the hourly?

Hourly rates can be abuse by the freelancer's, and fixed rates can be abused by both parties 'under contract'

I notice a lot of people who say hourly rates lets the freelancers charge for the errors that come up during the project. That's irresponsible to do that. If you're incompetent with the project then by all means you should have not accept the project, instead of charging them for your mistakes.

Fixed rate are supposed to be estimated before hand, that includes time and mistakes given, during the project.

Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9014511].message }}

seasoned

10 years ago

Originally Posted by PimpinRice

The real question is how do we, the customer, know we are not being scooped by the hourly?

Hourly rates can be abuse by the freelancer's, and fixed rates can be abused by both parties 'under contract'

I notice a lot of people who say hourly rates lets the freelancers charge for the errors that come up during the project. That's irresponsible to do that. If you're incompetent with the project then by all means you should have not accept the project, instead of charging them for your mistakes.

Fixed rate are supposed to be estimated before hand, that includes time and mistakes given, during the project.

Dennis gaskill is right, but....

Pimpinrice. You don't know what you are talking about AT ALL! MANY projects I have been on took longer than planned. USUALLY, it was the CUSTOMER'S fault!

As I said earlier, scope creep is a HUGE problem! I was on a project once, and the customer had me twiddling thumbs for 3 MONTHS!!!!!!!!! I HAD to use MY account on THEIR computer using THEIR methods! It took them 3 MONTHS to get me an account and computer. They couldn't show me their methods until they needed to promote things, and they decided not to have me, or another there, since it could take over a WEEK to get us up to speed, and they had to get us up to speed no later than like 2 days BEFORE! ALSO, it was misrepresented! That meant we were not the best fit.

I was at another customer that wasted better than 6 MONTHS!(BTW 3 months cost ME) This was complicated because they lied to me, etc... They wanted the WHOLE thing done in 4 WEEKS! I would have done that if they were HONEST. I ALREADY spoke of my fathers home. HE decided he wanted another line, and the building was built at a time when such things were RARE! The phone company USUALLY charges a minor charge to enable orphan lines. He HAD no orphan lines, so the POD had to be moved! And what of the drain? These things were NOT incompetence on the contractors side.

Of course, hourly or fixed, SOMEONE is likely to end up cheated. It is just what happens on custom jobs, which these generally end up being. If it is hourly, MOST mistakes WILL cost the customer! If it is fixed, the consultant reserves the right to limit creep and WILL charge more than they think the job will take to cover problems that are BOUND to happen. If there is too much scope creep, they will demand you accept it with LESS creep, cut back on something else, or reestimate a new addendum.

Steve

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9014622].message }}

Dennis Gaskill

10 years ago

Why would you resurrect this thread after two years?

Hourly or fixed, there is no right or wrong answer. It's a matter of preference.

[ 1 ] Thanks
1 reply

Signature

Just when you think you've got it all figured out, someone changes the rules.

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9014597].message }}

PimpinRice

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill

Why would you resurrect this thread after two years?

I didn't notice the time stamp before you mention it.

Originally Posted by seasoned

I was on a project once, and the customer had me twiddling thumbs for 3 MONTHS!!!!!!!!! I HAD to use MY account on THEIR computer using THEIR methods! It took them 3 MONTHS to get me an account and computer. They couldn't show me their methods until they needed to promote things, and they decided not to have me, or another there, since it could take over a WEEK to get us up to speed, and they had to get us up to speed no later than like 2 days BEFORE! ALSO, it was misrepresented! That meant we were not the best fit.

You, as the hired expert, should of calculate before hand the work necessary and provide contracts as well as thorough communication, but you fail to do this proper management which results in your very own workload.

Originally Posted by seasoned

I was at another customer that wasted better than 6 MONTHS!(BTW 3 months cost ME) This was complicated because they lied to me, etc... They wanted the WHOLE thing done in 4 WEEKS! I would have done that if they were HONEST. I ALREADY spoke of my fathers home. HE decided he wanted another line, and the building was built at a time when such things were RARE! The phone company USUALLY charges a minor charge to enable orphan lines. He HAD no orphan lines, so the POD had to be moved! And what of the drain? These things were NOT incompetence on the contractors side.

Again a simple contract and proper analysis can fix this before undertaking the project, and if anything happens out of the contract that wasn't caused by the freelancer, they have the option to fix it. But if it is caused by the freelancer they're bound to fix it, putting the blame on others is just plain childish and irresponsible.

Originally Posted by seasoned

if it is hourly, MOST mistakes WILL cost the customer!

There isn't a justifiable collection of data that can prove this, but the most logical conclusion is if you break something, you pay something. You don't make others pay for you. I don't know about you but if I hire someone, they better get the job done 'correctly' and asap, I don't pay for them to try and figure out a flaw within their skill during workload.

Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9027591].message }}

seasoned

10 years ago

Originally Posted by PimpinRice

You, as the hired expert, should of calculate before hand the work necessary and provide contracts as well as thorough communication, but you fail to do this proper management which results in your very own workload.

I TRY, but it is more of a GUT thing. On the last contract where I was to estimate for the customer, an "EXPERT" used my answers to questions and added a fudge factor. Fudge factors are ALWAYS added, since this is NOT a science, exact or otherwise. I estimated for MYSELF about 4 weeks(2 weeks for work, and 2 weeks because I never did it before.) THEY added stuff that I earlier might have estimated would take 3-7 more days. In the end, ironically, after 2 weeks work, they asked how much longer, and I said about 2 weeks. THEY had a piece missing, and had me for only 2 weeks. They were UPSET because I let the OTHER guy tell them 8! They wondered how I did 6 weeks work in 2 weeks!

But you can RARELY get it right. Even if the consultant were PERFECT, and this were an EXACT science, it wouldn't be accurate. The client often LIES, sneaks things in, or forgets things. On one project, they had a person work for 2 YEARS to do something. He was wrong about the source, wrong about the target, wrong about the format, and it took ME like 2 weeks to find out what happened and how to get it to work.

I got it to work perfectly. *******I******* was now ****THE**** expert in this part, being the ONLY one to know all this stuff. It was working fast and reliably for over a month. THEN someone decides to change EVERYTHING, assuming that there was a partial update capability. He asked ME to do it, I started, then realized what he was trying to do, and told him I doubted that capability was there. I tested it, and it FAILED!

Again a simple contract and proper analysis can fix this before undertaking the project, and if anything happens out of the contract that wasn't caused by the freelancer, they have the option to fix it. But if it is caused by the freelancer they're bound to fix it, putting the blame on others is just plain childish and irresponsible.

In case you hadn't noticed, I was not involved in this AT ALL! Should my father have checked the internal lines? MAYBE! But RELIABLY testing that with NO POD access or multiple accounts is just not possible. And he, like most customers, doesn't think of such things. MOST homes in the US have at LEAST 2 sets of lines!

The need to have drain access was due to an idea he had. He realized that the back, having 2 doors and no reasonable space for a desk, could be a hall way with a laundry room. GOOD IDEA all the way around, but required facilities that otherwise WEREN'T needed!

There isn't a justifiable collection of data that can prove this, but the most logical conclusion is if you break something, you pay something. You don't make others pay for you. I don't know about you but if I hire someone, they better get the job done 'correctly' and asap, I don't pay for them to try and figure out a flaw within their skill during workload.

OK, then they will, necessarily, simply raise the per hour, and base cost. MANY places have a BASE cost. This is probably currently rare for the computer consultant industry, but COMMON for plumbers, HVAC, car repair, lawyers, etc.... And YEAH, YOU pay for changes to scope, LEARNING some interfaces, WORKING AROUND some limitations, etc... When people hire me, in my current position, they often raise expenses SKY HIGH, and PAY for them! If they want to discuss reducing their bill with ME, I will simply say HEY, simply give me the resources to do it from home, and let me do it from home! THAT would save the average customer OVER $29.75/hour! And I would be HAPPY to throw in extra hours to make that over $40/hour!

On the last contract I was on, I had to learn new things that were NOT included in the contract.

Steve

Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9027733].message }}

PimpinRice

10 years ago

Originally Posted by seasoned

I TRY, but it is more of a GUT thing. On the last contract where I was to estimate for the customer, an "EXPERT" used my answers to questions and added a fudge factor. Fudge factors are ALWAYS added, since this is NOT a science, exact or otherwise. I estimated for MYSELF about 4 weeks(2 weeks for work, and 2 weeks because I never did it before.) THEY added stuff that I earlier might have estimated would take 3-7 more days. In the end, ironically, after 2 weeks work, they asked how much longer, and I said about 2 weeks. THEY had a piece missing, and had me for only 2 weeks. They were UPSET because I let the OTHER guy tell them 8! They wondered how I did 6 weeks work in 2 weeks!

But you can RARELY get it right. Even if the consultant were PERFECT, and this were an EXACT science, it wouldn't be accurate. The client often LIES, sneaks things in, or forgets things. On one project, they had a person work for 2 YEARS to do something. He was wrong about the source, wrong about the target, wrong about the format, and it took ME like 2 weeks to find out what happened and how to get it to work.

I got it to work perfectly. *******I******* was now ****THE**** expert in this part, being the ONLY one to know all this stuff. It was working fast and reliably for over a month. THEN someone decides to change EVERYTHING, assuming that there was a partial update capability. He asked ME to do it, I started, then realized what he was trying to do, and told him I doubted that capability was there. I tested it, and it FAILED!

In case you hadn't noticed, I was not involved in this AT ALL! Should my father have checked the internal lines? MAYBE! But RELIABLY testing that with NO POD access or multiple accounts is just not possible. And he, like most customers, doesn't think of such things. MOST homes in the US have at LEAST 2 sets of lines!

The need to have drain access was due to an idea he had. He realized that the back, having 2 doors and no reasonable space for a desk, could be a hall way with a laundry room. GOOD IDEA all the way around, but required facilities that otherwise WEREN'T needed!

OK, then they will, necessarily, simply raise the per hour, and base cost. MANY places have a BASE cost. This is probably currently rare for the computer consultant industry, but COMMON for plumbers, HVAC, car repair, lawyers, etc.... And YEAH, YOU pay for changes to scope, LEARNING some interfaces, WORKING AROUND some limitations, etc... When people hire me, in my current position, they often raise expenses SKY HIGH, and PAY for them! If they want to discuss reducing their bill with ME, I will simply say HEY, simply give me the resources to do it from home, and let me do it from home! THAT would save the average customer OVER $29.75/hour! And I would be HAPPY to throw in extra hours to make that over $40/hour!

On the last contract I was on, I had to learn new things that were NOT included in the contract.

Steve

A lot of whining about unexpected events, it's really is hard to say no in your life as well as stopping on contract term and a thorough examination along with precise communication is of up most important, which you could avoid a lot of trouble. The real answer is not to expect to add value to a fixed price but to put it at an reasonable cost.

Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9027945].message }}

seasoned

10 years ago

Originally Posted by PimpinRice

A lot of whining about unexpected events, it's really is hard to say no in your life as well as stopping on contract term and a thorough examination along with precise communication is of up most important, which you could avoid a lot of trouble. The real answer is not to expect to add value to a fixed price but to put it at an reasonable cost.

YOU are the one WHINING about unexpected events. I am merely saying WHY they necessitate a new payment and HOW to get rid of it.

Steve

Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9027970].message }}

Kay King 10 years ago

A lot of whining about unexpected events

You bump your own thread after two years to argue the same thing again? ...and someone else is whining?

Could it be people can decide for themselves how they prefer to charge for the work THEY do?
- Thanks
- 1 reply
Signature

Saving one dog will not change the world - but the world changes forever for that one dog
***
Live life like someone left the gate open
{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9027995].message }}
- PimpinRice 10 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Kay King
  
  You bump your own thread after two years to argue the same thing again? ...and someone else is whining?
  
  There is a difference between whining and giving constructive arguments. As I've stated before, I forgot to look at the post date as well as not understanding that this will eventually bumped, so your point is quite evidently moot.
  
  Originally Posted by Kay King
  
  Could it be people can decide for themselves how they prefer to charge for the work THEY do?
  
  I wouldn't really know, I'm not everyone. But is that the case for you and others as well?
  
  Originally Posted by seasoned
  
  YOU are the one WHINING about unexpected events. I am merely saying WHY they necessitate a new payment and HOW to get rid of it.
  
  Steve
  
  I don't understand seasoned, please clarify what you've stated.
  
  Thanks
  
  1 reply
  
  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9028098].message }}
  
  Paul Myers 10 years ago
  
  I don't understand seasoned,
  
  And that, my friends, is why they call it commady!
  
  [ 1 ] Thanks
  
  1 reply
  
  Signature
  
  .
  Stop by Paul's Pub - my little hangout on Facebook.
  
  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9028148].message }}
  
  seasoned 10 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Paul Myers
  
  And that, my friends, is why they call it commady!
  
  Considering your latest splorf, or whatever that sound is, THAT is ALSO!
  
  Steve
  
  Thanks
  
  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9028999].message }}

Hourly rates vs Fixed price?

Trending Topics

How did you turn it all around?

Any thoughts on golf's latest phenom...Scottie Scheffler??

Infographic: How B2B marketers on LinkedIn can maximise their efforts for better audience reach

What's the Best IM-Related Skill to Learn Today That Can Help in the Future?

Some interesting stats about brand comms