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The Biggest Scientific Breakthrough In History! (bigger than the moon landing)

by TheSalesTechnician
42 replies
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This is the most historical moment in science. Take a moment to reflect and be glad that this has occurred in your life time. We are truly living in interesting times.

CERN scientists: Strong evidence ‘God particle’ exists - World - The Boston Globe

PS This post is meant for scientific discussion. Please dont turn it into anything else. Thanks
  • Profile picture of the author KingYoungPimpin
    Very interesting!
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  • Profile picture of the author lcombs
    Interesting indeed.

    But, here's the real question/s:

    What was there before the Big Bang?

    And, where did the Higgs boson come from?

    In infinity there is no begining and no end.

    Pipe that in your smoke and put it!
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    • Profile picture of the author TheSalesTechnician
      Originally Posted by lcombs View Post

      Interesting indeed.

      But, here's the real question/s:

      What was there before the Big Bang?

      And, where did the Higgs boson come from?

      In infinity there is no begining and no end.

      Pipe that in your smoke and put it!

      As I stated this post is NOT meant for religious discussion. So there is no need to get hostel.

      But if you are truly asking a *scientific* question as to where did Higgs boson come from then... the obvious answer is it was always here.

      Its the fabric of the universe along with matter.
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      • Profile picture of the author Halcyon
        Originally Posted by TheSalesTechnician View Post

        As I stated this post is NOT meant for religious discussion. So there is no need to get hostel.

        But if you are truly asking a *scientific* question as to where did Higgs boson come from then... the obvious answer is it was always here.

        Its the fabric of the universe.

        I don't think he was being hostile. Wry humor is common around these parts.
        If I understood, he was playing devil's advocate with a little tongue in cheek.


        Now if I'm dipping in the Kool-Aid but don't know the flavor- someone please correct me. :p
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        • Profile picture of the author TheSalesTechnician
          Originally Posted by Halcyon View Post

          I don't think he was being hostile. Wry humor is common around these parts.
          If I understood, he was playing devil's advocate with a little tongue in cheek.


          Now if I'm dipping in the Kool-Aid but don't know the flavor- someone please correct me. :p
          Point well taken. Just trying to preserve the integrity of the forum.
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        • Profile picture of the author lcombs
          Originally Posted by Halcyon View Post

          I don't think he was being hostile. Wry humor is common around these parts.
          If I understood, he was playing devil's advocate with a little tongue in cheek.


          Now if I'm dipping in the Kool-Aid but don't know the flavor- someone please correct me. :p
          Definitely no hostile intent.

          According to the article, (as well as other articles I've read), 'they' study the "begining of the Universe."

          All I'm saying is there was no begining.
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    • Profile picture of the author Henry White
      Originally Posted by lcombs View Post

      Interesting indeed.

      But, here's the real question/s:

      What was there before the Big Bang?

      And, where did the Higgs boson come from?

      In infinity there is no begining and no end.

      Pipe that in your smoke and put it!
      Before the so-called Big Bang there was no space-time, so the better question is what triggered the BB.

      The Higgs boson particle is a hypothetical construct that solves many of the unanswered questions scientists have to deal with - and if true makes life easier because it points to the next set of questions they need to answer. Perhaps it's not a particle but a wave.

      Does 'infinity' really exist? Astro-physicists can pretty much pinpoint the BB at 13.7 billion years ago, and that's slightly larger than the farthest galaxies discovered to date. We also know that the universe is still expanding and at an increasing rate, so any hypothetical Big Crunch would have to be well into the tens of billions of years into the future - still not quite infinite unless this enormous cycle is an endless loop. We don't know that - one way or the other - and there doesn't seem to be any way to prove it scientifically.

      Heady stuff whether you're religious or not.
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      • Profile picture of the author Joe Mobley
        Originally Posted by Henry White View Post

        Before the so-called Big Bang there was no space-time...

        I am somewhat suspect of this conclusion. Perhaps you could point me to some supporting documentation.

        Joe Mobley
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        • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
          Pretty cool!

          But as for the big bang theory, l tend to believe that the universe has always existed, it's just that our minds short circuit when we try to get a grasp on infinity!

          But if you walk in a circle you could do so forever, so it isn't impossible to grasp.

          As for the expanding universe, it most likely expands and contracts every $300,000,000 years or so, and we are reaching the point of maximum expansion at the end of this year, according to historical texts.

          So, scientists could see the universe slowing down or stopping in 6 months time and start to contract?

          That would be a pretty cool thing!

          Either the historical texts have got it wrong, or the big bang theory is wrong?

          We will know soon enough!

          Shane
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      • Profile picture of the author lcombs
        Originally Posted by Henry White View Post

        Before the so-called Big Bang there was no space-time, so the better question is what triggered the BB.

        The Higgs boson particle is a hypothetical construct that solves many of the unanswered questions scientists have to deal with - and if true makes life easier because it points to the next set of questions they need to answer. Perhaps it's not a particle but a wave.

        Does 'infinity' really exist? Astro-physicists can pretty much pinpoint the BB at 13.7 billion years ago, and that's slightly larger than the farthest galaxies discovered to date. We also know that the universe is still expanding and at an increasing rate, so any hypothetical Big Crunch would have to be well into the tens of billions of years into the future - still not quite infinite unless this enormous cycle is an endless loop. We don't know that - one way or the other - and there doesn't seem to be any way to prove it scientifically.

        Heady stuff whether you're religious or not.
        That's impossible.
        'Something' doesn't come from 'nothing'.

        These Physists are looking for something that isn't there.

        Threre has to have been an infinite number of "Big Bangs".

        "Bang" "contract", Bang, contract,.......

        But, how can that be without a begining?
        There has to have been a first Big Bang;
        But, there couldn't have been a first Big Bang
        because space/time is infinite.
        And, as I stated before, and, by definition, in infinity,
        there is no begining and no end.
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        • Profile picture of the author MoneyMagnetMagnate
          The fact that there may be solid evidence found to support the Higgs Boson particle theory will be overshadowed and argued because it has unfortunately been nicknamed the 'God particle' - and some people who do not, or will not, understand the implications of this energy find and the inherent nature of it's origin will argue its discovery from a theological viewpoint, and unfortunately, there will be some factions who will spend more time attempting to discredit the find because of the nickname, than they will give time to the science behind its discovery. (jmo)
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        • Profile picture of the author jacktackett
          Originally Posted by lcombs View Post

          That's impossible.
          'Something' doesn't come from 'nothing'.
          ....
          I'm not trying to be difficult - but again - why is this true?

          I know to say 'What was before the big bang - nothing' just doesnt sit well with our view of the current universe..

          The real answer is 'We don't know [yet]". maybe never will know. human minds/brains are VERY good at seeing (wishing?) patterns that really are not there.

          respectfully,
          --Jack
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  • Profile picture of the author thunderbird
    Someone who is not a physicist ain't likely to understand that. As for what they call that particle, that seems to be a deliberate attempt at being provocative and generating publicity. I guess they need "good" publicity to generate public interest and support to justify the astronomical expenses of the CERN lab during times of extreme economic duress. If I understood him correctly, I think physicist David Bohm said that it is impossible to get the whole picture by always breaking things down. Trying to do so is quixotic quest. It will lead to discoveries and adventures but not the ultimate objective. They're not going to conquer the "windmill"; it will always partly be in their imaginations which distorts things and there is no way around that.
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  • Profile picture of the author TheSalesTechnician
    Well Im no physicist myself but I imagine, just like gravity, the Higgs Boson will remain a theory just like Gravity is a theory but will be accepted as fact.

    It is proven, because we can accurately test the results within a controlled environment (Cern).

    From what I understand from reading the article...the test results will be released Wednesday.
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Infinity isn't a religious statement. Time has no religion. I am wondering how close they can get to the actual explosion from what they are finding. Those stupid little fractions really confound information when it comes to things such as the birth of a universe.

    Gravity, though - has always been a massive matter to tackle, too. It just sucks.
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    • Profile picture of the author whateverpedia
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      Gravity, though - has always been a massive matter to tackle, too. It just sucks.
      I disagree. Gravity keeps us all grounded in reality.
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  • Profile picture of the author yukon
    Banned
    No matter what they find, it couldn't be the beginning, since everything has to originate from something else before it's existence.
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    • Profile picture of the author jacktackett
      Originally Posted by yukon View Post

      No matter what they find, it couldn't be the beginning, since everything has to originate from something else before it's existence.
      Why?

      the quantum universe is no where near as linear as the Newtonian universe.
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      • Profile picture of the author yukon
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        Originally Posted by jacktackett View Post

        Why?

        the quantum universe is no where near as linear as the Newtonian universe.
        If I asked you to create a tree, but you couldn't use anything (nothing), could you do it, or do you know anyone that could?
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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    Evolution proves nothing. Even COMPUTERS have evolved! The existence of a particle before what is known, proves nothing. MANY people have theories as to how god was created and why, but the real FACT is that it is to try to explain a beginning that NOBODY has ever attempted to explain and in theory, as far as I know, could never be explained because IT would have to be explained.

    Don't talk to me about evolution, because that requires materials that the big bang tries to explain which requires SO much explanation that any statement would be more absurd than the creation of the entire cosmos we have ever perceived to this point. It is like my asking a kid how a piece of paper moved, and he says it was from the wind of a the largest storm ever to hit the area. Considering nothing else was touched, and nobody else knows about it, that would be very hard to explain.

    Of course, I am saying NOTHING about religion, but showing the silliness in any such discussions.

    Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
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  • Profile picture of the author domainarama
    Gravity is a theory but will be accepted as fact.
    Gravity is not just a theory. IT'S THE LAW!!!!!

    Unless Chief Justice Roberts repeals it.

    PS Other than playing on your words my message is that your understanding of the words "theory" and "fact" and "law" is a common non-technical, nonscientific understanding of those words. However, when used by scientists (especially philosophers of science since the mid-20th Century) the words have a rather different meaning. As a simple example, "theories" are never solely about "facts" and can never be "proven." They can be "supported" by facts derived from experiments. But they always contain "concept" words that cannot be reduced completely to "facts."
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  • Profile picture of the author Patrician
    Ha ha -

    We will all get a Big Bang out of the truth when it is revealed -

    ... and of course the less you see (inner space) the bigger the bang will B 4 U.

    Good luck with that.
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  • Profile picture of the author Silas Hart
    I don't believe that something can't come from nothing. I believe some things are ever existing, not everything has a life cycle.
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    • Profile picture of the author MoneyMagnetMagnate
      Originally Posted by Silas Hart View Post

      I don't believe that something can't come from nothing. I believe some things are ever existing, not everything has a life cycle.
      That might be contradictory to the laws of thermodynamics and entropy. (and a double-negative )
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    • Profile picture of the author lcombs
      Originally Posted by Silas Hart View Post

      I don't believe that something can't come from nothing. I believe some things are ever existing, not everything has a life cycle.
      "Ever existing" by definition, means that 'something' is there.
      Therefore, 'something' did not come from 'nothing'.
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  • Profile picture of the author derekwong28
    So what, this has got absolutely nothing to do with daily lives!
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  • Profile picture of the author nehadas87
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    • Profile picture of the author MoneyMagnetMagnate
      Stephen Hawking on Higgs Discovery: This lost me a $100 bet!

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    • Profile picture of the author Joe Mobley
      Let me suggest that the money spent on this project did touch human lives in many ways.

      Many construction jobs were created. The money from those jobs went to pay for mortgages, make car payments, buy clothes, buy a beer on the way home after a days work, etc.

      Many support jobs and businesses benefited from this project. Suppliers, those that created the materials needed, truckers who brought the materials to the construction sites, etc.

      Of course there are ongoing jobs where the current employees earn a paycheck.

      Then there are the small businesses that provide indirect support for those that have and do work there. I'm thinking of the gas stations, restaurants, etc. where people stop in for a quick purchase.

      I can appreciate that you should be able to spend your money in areas that are important to you. In all fairness, shouldn't we extend the same privilege to others and their money?

      Joe Mobley


      Originally Posted by nehadas87 View Post

      Though this is a good breakthrough for scientific community, the amount spent could have been precious for deprived countries or voluntary organizations. Yes, scientific progress is required , but something which touches human lives.
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    • Profile picture of the author Thomas
      Originally Posted by nehadas87 View Post

      Though this is a good breakthrough for scientific community, the amount spent could have been precious for deprived countries or voluntary organizations. Yes, scientific progress is required , but something which touches human lives.
      It's not a "good breakthrough for scientific community" - it's an invaluable scienfitic advance for humanity. When first discovered, people thought electricity was interesting but "obviously" useless in their day-to-day lives - scientific advances are almost always decried until they make machines work.

      And, for what it's worth, if you're from India, don't worry - it didn't cost you a penny. The project was entirely financed by European nations who, incidentally, donate far more money to other countries in a single year than they paid for both the LHC and the entire CERN organisation put together.
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      • Profile picture of the author Joe Mobley
        Thomas,

        Good point. I didn't even think about that.

        Joe Mobley

        Originally Posted by Thomas View Post

        And, for what it's worth, if you're from India, don't worry - it didn't cost you a penny. The project was entirely financed by European nations who, incidentally, donate far more money to other countries in a single year than they paid for both the LHC and the entire CERN organisation put together.
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  • Profile picture of the author MoneyMagnetMagnate
    The Higgs Boson Explained in Animation
    by PHD Comics
    The Higgs Boson Explained on Vimeo
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    • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
      So what, this has got absolutely nothing to do with daily lives!
      Yep, l tend to agree, obviously for them it is a great achievement, billions of dollars and almost 45 years of effort have paid off.

      But for the rest of us, it doesn't seem like much, l wouldn't be surprised that by or before the year 2100, this could give us a new power source or interaction, that will get us to the nearest star, possibly within Avatar type speeds, or something equally impressive.

      If we can change the mass of a particle, by understanding how the Higgs interacts with matter maybe we can reduce the mass to zero and get over Einsteins barrier of needing infinite mass to reach near light speed?

      Shane
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      • Profile picture of the author thunderbird
        Originally Posted by tagiscom View Post

        Yep, l tend to agree, obviously for them it is a great achievement, billions of dollars and almost 45 years of effort have paid off.

        But for the rest of us, it doesn't seem like much, <snip>
        Internet wouldn't exist if it wasn't for quantum physics. The information gathered from these experiments will almost certainly directly impact myriad facets of our lives, even if we're not aware of it:
        Quantum Physics in a Nutshell - Perimeter Institute for Theoretical Physics
        "...quantum physics plays a crucial role in a number of everyday technologies including computers, remote control devices, lasers, and cell phones..."

        That said, I think it was stupid to publicly call it the "God particle...," whatever they like to call it amongst themselves. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that that term would generate unproductive conflict and negative publicity.
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  • Profile picture of the author dallas playboy
    Maybe the big bang is just one cycle, one event in an infinite series of events. God says
    let there be light, and the universe begins to exist; then God say, let there be darkness,
    and nothing exists. After God rests, He says, let there be light again.
    What we call God always has existed, always will exist, with no beginning or end.

    This is not religion, its the cosmic cycle, and is known be many names. The Dow!
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    • Profile picture of the author lcombs
      Originally Posted by dallas playboy View Post

      Maybe the big bang is just one cycle, one event in an infinite series of events. God says
      let there be light, and the universe begins to exist; then God say, let there be darkness,
      and nothing exists. After God rests, He says, let there be light again.
      What we call God always has existed, always will exist, with no beginning or end.

      This is not religion, its the cosmic cycle, and is known be many names. The Dow!
      Energy cannot be destroyed. It simply changes form.
      And, "God" is defined the same as energy.
      They move "in form, through form, and out of form."
      When, in my younger days, I first became aware of the the universe and started having discussions on the subject, this question and answer for
      "space" came up;
      "If the universe ends, where does it end, and what's there? A brick wall?
      If so, then, what's on the other side of the wall"?
      As humans, I think we can barely comprehend something begining and extending forever.
      The hard part is comprehending something that has no begining.
      As having always been.
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  • Profile picture of the author dallas playboy
    >>If I asked you to create a tree, but you couldn't use anything (nothing), could you do it, or do you know anyone that could? <<

    "POEMS ARE MADE BY FOOLS LIKE ME, BUT ONLY GOD CAN MAKE A TREE"

    JOYCE KILMER
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    • Profile picture of the author yukon
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      Originally Posted by dallas playboy View Post

      >>If I asked you to create a tree, but you couldn't use anything (nothing), could you do it, or do you know anyone that could? <<

      "POEMS ARE MADE BY FOOLS LIKE ME, BUT ONLY GOD CAN MAKE A TREE"

      JOYCE KILMER
      I'll take that as a No.
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  • Profile picture of the author johnnys229
    Shane, that's a very interesting thought. By somehow "taking" the mass from particles we could accelerate them to the speed of light, perhaps?

    But surely nothing can go faster, though... or can it...

    All this is confusing, and most of us don't even have the faintest idea about what the Higgs really is or how it works. Fascinating stuff though, a welcome breakthrough.
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