Unbelievable-Kills wife and now wants US to pay for sex change,and Judge gives OK!

12 years ago

I see what the ta-ta is up to.

Wants to become a woman in an all male corrections facility hoping to get transferred to an all women's facility for safety where he/she will conveniently revert back to being a man. :rolleyes:

Wants life sentence to be one to a sex playground. :p

Terra

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MissTerraK 12 years ago

Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill

...or to be the most popular gal on the cell block.

Ha! That too!

Anyway, whatever happened to locking 'em up and throwing away the key?

Terra
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Brian John 12 years ago

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salegurus

12 years ago

So the MA tax payers are footing the bill for this POS!
"Serious medical need." are you F%$#&*# kidding me, i say throw that
Judge in with the inmates for a week or so.

States are going broke and we have Judges like this P#$% forcing tax payers
to entertain the whims of a convicted murderer.

Send that Ass %$#@% down to TX...

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KimW

12 years ago

The Judge should be recalled ASAP.
As it is,there is an inmate here in Va that has been trying to get the same thing and now the ACLU is going to try to use the Mass case to push it through here in Va.

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MissTerraK

12 years ago

Originally Posted by KimW

The Judge should be recalled ASAP.
As it is,there is an inmate here in Va that has been trying to get the same thing and now the ACLU is going to try to use the Mass case to push it through here in Va.

All kidding aside...

I can't tell you how much that incites me to anger! In this country we have literally thousands upon thousands of children living below poverty level due to the high unemployment levels where their parents can't find work to feed them and so they're going hungry every day.

We have so many homeless veterans and those in need of medical treatment but can't afford it. And yet, some members of the government would rather pay for a convicted murderer to have a sex change with the tax payers dollars? Un-freakin-belivable!!

:confused:

Terra

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waterotter

12 years ago

This is outrageous and no doubt will be precedent setting. I think the citizens of Mass. should be the ones filing a lawsuit.

What is a law-abiding citizen who requires a necessary medical treatment/operation, but can't afford it, to do - go commit a crime so s/he can have it paid for? This is a very, very slippery slope.

I also don't like the message we are sending to our children if this is allowed to proceed.

I say, give him a knife. What will be, will be.

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MoneyMagnetMagnate

12 years ago

Originally Posted by waterotter

This is outrageous and no doubt will be precedent setting. I think the citizens of Mass. should be the ones filing a lawsuit.

What is a law-abiding citizen who requires a necessary medical treatment/operation, but can't afford it, to do - go commit a crime so s/he can have it paid for? This is a very, very slippery slope.

I also don't like the message we are sending to our children if this is allowed to proceed.

I say, give him a knife. What will be, will be.

I think this has actually been done before, so no precedent, but I cannot remember the case. Seems when you are in jail for a crime such as this, you lose a particular amount of freedoms - hence, WHY you are in jail...

If you are a woman, trapped inside a man, in a men's prison...ya know what? Life sucks - especially life in prison...get used to it. "If ya can't do the time, don't do the crime"

This does remind me of a case though, where a man had an operation, then tried to petition the court to let him stop paying child-support for the children he fathered - on the grounds he was no longer a man, so he was not their father. (don't worry, the judge had some sense in this case)

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SteveJohnson

12 years ago

Originally Posted by MoneyMagnetMagnate

This does remind me of a case though, where a man had an operation, then tried to petition the court to let him stop paying child-support for the children he fathered - on the grounds he was no longer a man, so he was not their father. (don't worry, the judge had some sense in this case)

And likely got overruled on appeal to the Ninth Circuit

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MoneyMagnetMagnate 12 years ago

Originally Posted by SteveJohnson

And likely got overruled on appeal to the Ninth Circuit

I had remembered this one, because it was another strange case - the mentioned 'fellow' was a railroad worker who got his insurance to pay for his operation, then, because he was "ostracized" by his co-workers...he turned around and sued same railroad for discrimination, and won. Then appealed for workmen's compensation for his 'medical condition'...
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SteveJohnson

12 years ago

Originally Posted by waterotter

This is outrageous and no doubt will be precedent setting. I think the citizens of Mass. should be the ones filing a lawsuit.

What is a law-abiding citizen who requires a necessary medical treatment/operation, but can't afford it, to do - go commit a crime so s/he can have it paid for? This is a very, very slippery slope.

Unfortunately, that's been done. 3 hots and a cot, and free medical care.

I also don't like the message we are sending to our children if this is allowed to proceed.

I say, give him a knife. What will be, will be.

He tried, they stopped him.

In what world does a sex-change operation become 'necessary medical care' that is covered under the 8th Amendment?

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ThomM

12 years ago

Originally Posted by waterotter

This is outrageous and no doubt will be precedent setting. I think the citizens of Mass. should be the ones filing a lawsuit.

What is a law-abiding citizen who requires a necessary medical treatment/operation, but can't afford it, to do - go commit a crime so s/he can have it paid for? This is a very, very slippery slope.

I also don't like the message we are sending to our children if this is allowed to proceed.

I say, give him a knife. What will be, will be.

Better yet, give the knife to Bubba and tell him his new roomy wants to be a girl and hates people named Bubba

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waterotter

12 years ago

Seems when you are in jail for a crime such as this, you lose a particular amount of freedoms - hence, WHY you are in jail...

If you are a woman, trapped inside a man, in a men's prison...ya know what? Life sucks - especially life in prison...get used to it.

Yes, he is in jail and should lose his "freedoms".

He will not die if he is refused this operation, therefore, it's not a medical necessity.

Provide him with the necessary "mental health" treatment with a psychiatrist to help him accept and deal with his issues. Should he refuse this and choose to commit suicide, that's his decision.

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waterotter

12 years ago

It is now being reported the cost of the sex reassignment surgery can range from $30,000 to $80,000.

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KimW

12 years ago

Originally Posted by waterotter

Yes, he is in jail and should lose his "freedoms".

He will not die if he is refused this operation, therefore, it's not a medical necessity.

Provide him with the necessary "mental health" treatment with a psychiatrist to help him accept and deal with his issues. Should he refuse this and choose to commit suicide, that's his decision.

Jody, apparently he has a dr that says he would commit suicide if he doesn't get the operation. ( I say let him then).

Originally Posted by waterotter

It is now being reported the cost of the sex reassignment surgery can range from $30,000 to $80,000.

I would guess that even the $80K range is very low end. $30K is a laughable estimate.

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MissTerraK 12 years ago

Originally Posted by KimW

Jody, apparently he has a dr that says he would commit suicide if he doesn't get the operation. ( I say let him then).

That's the flimsiest excuse! Really?

Why can't he just be put on suicide watch like all of the other inmates that purport suicidal tendencies?

Aren't prison's supposed to keep the kind of stuff they could hurt others or themselves with out of their reach anyway? And, if he happens to get his hands on something to commit suicide with, yeah, let him!

Terra
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MoneyMagnetMagnate

12 years ago

Originally Posted by SteveJohnson

And likely got overruled on appeal to the Ninth Circuit

Originally Posted by KimW

Jody, apparently he has a dr that says he would commit suicide if he doesn't get the operation. ( I say let him then).

I would guess that even the $80K range is very low end. $30K is a laughable estimate.

What if they get used parts?...to cut down on the cost of the rebuild...

They could send him to a Surgeon's college...let the students work on him...

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waterotter 12 years ago

[QUOTE=KimW;6928135]Jody, apparently he has a dr that says he would commit suicide if he doesn't get the operation. ( I say let him then).

Kim, I understand about the doctor. If this was any citizen other than an inmate, fine - give them the operation. Now, considering this is a convicted murderer, give him psychiatric help him so he can deal with his identity crisis. If it doesn't work, let him kill himself - he's a waste of oxygen and taxpayers money.

Gee - If I were in prison and wanted a boob transplant, do you think I'd get one if I threatened to kill myself? I'm sure anyone could convince a doctor that they needed breast implants due to their lack of self-esteem, thus making them suicidal.

I'm fed up with the rights of convicted criminals. They have it so much better than so many others do.
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thunderbird

12 years ago

Nasty man, ugly woman.

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KimW

12 years ago

Terra,
Yeah,it says that on the second page of the article I posted the link to. It also says that the estimate the surgery at a cost of about $20K like Jody says,but you can't get an ingrown toe nail fixed for 20K in the states anymore,much less a sex change,unless you do it the way Thom suggested.

They also refer to the inmate as "she" in the article. :rolleyes:

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MissTerraK

12 years ago

Originally Posted by KimW

Terra,
Yeah,it says that on the second page of the article I posted the link to. It also says that the estimate the surgery at a cost of about $20K like Jody says,but you can't get an ingrown toe nail fixed for 20K in the states anymore,much less a sex change,unless you do it the way Thom suggested.

They also refer to the inmate as "she" in the article. :rolleyes:

Ha!

I'm sure some inmates would have no qualms castrating and performing a total penectomy on him for free!

Terra

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garyv

12 years ago

There has never been a more appropriate circumstance to use the phrase "Go $crew yourself" - and this judge blew it!

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HeySal

12 years ago

I am thinking it's about time to get rid of some judges - seems the the crew we have are now becoming senile.

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Jessica Lynn

12 years ago

From the article: Kosilek "continues to suffer intense mental anguish"

If he can kill his wife, which I'm thinking caused her some ******* mental anguish, I could care less about what he claims is a health care need. He's already being fed and housed by our taxed dollars - that's bad enough!

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MoneyMagnetMagnate

12 years ago

"In 1990, he killed her spouse Cheryl."

That is basically all I can find as to the WHY he is serving life in prison - can anyone elaborate?

WHY did this guy/gal murder his wife?

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HeySal

12 years ago

Originally Posted by MoneyMagnetMagnate

"In 1990, he killed her spouse Cheryl."

That is basically all I can find as to the WHY he is serving life in prison - can anyone elaborate?

WHY did this guy/gal murder his wife?

Unless it was self defense - which I am assuming is not the case since he is jailed for MURDER - it really doesn't matter. He killed her. Killing others for any reason besides self defense is something that society cannot tolerate.

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MoneyMagnetMagnate

12 years ago

Originally Posted by HeySal

Unless it was self defense - which I am assuming is not the case since he is jailed for MURDER - it really doesn't matter. He killed her. Killing others for any reason besides self defense is something that society cannot tolerate.

What I was alluding to, is did 'gender-identity' have any part in the murder or in his defense? It seemed curious I did not see any mention of how he was tried for murder, or the circumstances of the trial, only that he was convicted. For a life sentence, it would have most certainly been 1st degree, and most likely a heinous crime...why should we 'take pity' on his present condition and plight?

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waterotter

12 years ago

Originally Posted by MoneyMagnetMagnate

"In 1990, he killed her spouse Cheryl."

That is basically all I can find as to the WHY he is serving life in prison - can anyone elaborate?

WHY did this guy/gal murder his wife?

I'm not sure about the accuracy of this report, but s/he claims self defense in killing his wife: Michelle Kosilek: Judge rules murderer will receive TAX PAYER funded sex change | Mail Online

He later admitted to a reporter that he and his wife got into a heated argument during the day and she had thrown boiling water in his face.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz25dk5WldM

Yeah, there isn't much of an explanation...

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HeySal

12 years ago

Originally Posted by waterotter

I'm not sure about the accuracy of this report, but s/he claims self defense in killing his wife: Michelle Kosilek: Judge rules murderer will receive TAX PAYER funded sex change | Mail Online

Obviously the jury didn't think that was the truth. You don't go to jail for defending yourself.

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kenmichaels 12 years ago

Originally Posted by HeySal

Obviously the jury didn't think that was the truth. You don't go to jail for defending yourself.

First time for everything i guess.

This ( so far ) is the only time i don't agree with you .

Some attorneys suck at there job, and i would be willing to bet
everything i own, that there are people in jail right now
that are innocent... that were defending themselves.
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SteveJohnson

12 years ago

Originally Posted by HeySal

Obviously the jury didn't think that was the truth. You don't go to jail for defending yourself.

Most of the time

Farm tenant arrested after burglars shot was 'plagued by break-ins' - Telegraph

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Kay King

12 years ago

"continues to suffer intense mental anguish"

I guess I'm a hard case - I have no problem with a killer suffering mental anguish even if it's "severe". Part of the punishment for taking a life.

This guy had a horrid upbringing and was never afforded the appropriate treatment at an early age. Proper diagnosis and treatment may have well averted the unfortunate death of his wife.

Ignores the fact there was no acceptance or treatment of such a condition a generation ago. Sounds like more of the "not my fault" that's so common these days.

So the country pays for a sex change - and then he files an appeal with "proof" using that surgery as evidence of his affliction? Right.

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MoneyMagnetMagnate

12 years ago

Thanks for that update Jody, that is more info on the case than I could find by a long shot...yeah, "self-defense" sounds a little 'iffy'...

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waterotter 12 years ago

Originally Posted by MoneyMagnetMagnate

Thanks for that update Jody, that is more info on the case than I could find by a long shot...yeah, "self-defense" sounds a little 'iffy'...

Check this out: Robert KOSILEK - Murderpedia, the encyclopedia of murderers

Our society is doomed.
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waterotter

12 years ago

Originally Posted by MoneyMagnetMagnate

Thanks for that update Jody, that is more info on the case than I could find by a long shot...yeah, "self-defense" sounds a little 'iffy'...

Kosilek is a transsexual. Since at least age three, Kosilek has believed that he
is actually a female who has been cruelly trapped in a male's body.

Here is a 91 page document/summary from the "UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT DISTRICT OF MASSACHUSETTS": http://pacer.mad.uscourts.gov/dc/opi...df/kosilek.pdf

Just for the record, I'm NOT in agreement with this court ordered decision.

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seasoned

12 years ago

Originally Posted by waterotter

Here is a 91 page document/summary from the "UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT DISTRICT OF MASSACHUSETTS": http://pacer.mad.uscourts.gov/dc/opi...df/kosilek.pdf

Just for the record, I'm NOT in agreement with this court ordered decision.

If they say he knew when he was 3, WHY did he have a wife? Either his story is garbage, or he knowingly defrauded her. Ether way, it is a mark AGAINST him in MY book!

Steve

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KimW

12 years ago

Originally Posted by seasoned

If they say he knew when he was 3, WHY did he have a wife? Either his story is garbage, or he knowingly defrauded her. Ether way, it is a mark AGAINST him in MY book!

Steve

Steve,
My thought exactly when I read that.

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seasoned 12 years ago

Originally Posted by KimW

Steve,
My thought exactly when I read that.

IMAGINE if they figure out how to have eternal youth, or immortality. I guess we would have to pay for THAT also! OK, so if I go to jail, I can ask for a 2000sf cell with a nice 7 course meal 3 times a day, and my favorite moves that I can watch ll day long. HEY, WHY NOT! SO AND SO got a "SEX CHANGE"!!!!

Steve
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waterotter

12 years ago

Originally Posted by seasoned

If they say he knew when he was 3, WHY did he have a wife? Either his story is garbage, or he knowingly defrauded her. Ether way, it is a mark AGAINST him in MY book!

Steve

Although he had dropped out of high school, Kosilek managed to earn a college degree and to work productively for periods of time. Despite his painful belief that he was truly a female, Kosilek did not seek treatment for his gender identity disorder.

After relapsing into drug abuse, Kosilek entered a drug rehabilitation facility. There he met Cheryl McCaul, who was working as a volunteer counselor. McCaul told Kosilek that his transsexualism would be cured by "a good woman," and married him. However, Kosilek's distress did not abate. In 1990, Kosilek murdered McCaul.

This guy had a horrid upbringing and was never afforded the appropriate treatment at an early age. Proper diagnosis and treatment may have well averted the unfortunate death of his wife.

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seasoned

12 years ago

Originally Posted by waterotter

This guy had a horrid upbringing and was never afforded the appropriate treatment at an early age. Proper diagnosis and treatment may have well averted the unfortunate death of his wife.

Yeah, they will suggest a SCO. 8-( Really, there IS no such thing. It is about as phony as sewing threads into a persons scalp to replace hair. So frankly, I hate the idea. But why should such a felon have one? They are there to be PUNISHED and denied the basics to hopefully give them the idea that crime or murder isn't worth it.

Steve

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waterotter

12 years ago

Originally Posted by seasoned

Yeah, they will suggest a SCO. 8-( Really, there IS no such thing. It is about as phony as sewing threads into a persons scalp to replace hair. So frankly, I hate the idea. But why should such a felon have one? They are there to be PUNISHED and denied the basics to hopefully give them the idea that crime or murder isn't worth it.

Steve

I agree (as stated in post #35) and he needs to be punished, however - has anyone bothered to read the 91 page report?

This dude had serious problems long ago. Maybe they didn't have the name yet for his "mental illness" but there is a paper trail of evidence where he sought medical help for his suffering. He even wanted to pay out of his own pocket for the necessary treatment, but was denied.

Look at Chaz Bono - he suffered for years, not understanding the root cause of his emotional pain. He finally got a proper diagnosis and was treated accordingly. He now lives a very happy/contented life.

I don't condone this guy's behaviour, nor am I making excuses for him. I'm simply pointing out some "FACTS". Isn't that what many here want???

I do however, empathize with this guy's situation after reading the "FACTS".

How well-known is GID among mainstream medical professionals?
GID is a well known and established mental disorder, recognized under DSM -IV Section 302.85.
(The Diagnostic Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders) DSM is the generally recognized authoritative handbook on the diagnosis of mental disorders relied upon by mental health professionals, and GID (then called transsexualism) was first included in the DSM in 1980.

How many GP's were even educated enough about this back when this guy needed help? Yeah he was, still is on hormone replacements, but for some, this doesn't provide relief from their mental anguish, thus the suicidal tendencies.

God forbid any of your children will have to endure this life-long tormenting illness.

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seasoned

12 years ago

Originally Posted by waterotter

I agree (as stated in post #35) and he needs to be punished, however - has anyone bothered to read the 91 page report?

This dude had serious problems long ago. Maybe they didn't have the name yet for his "mental illness" but there is a paper trail of evidence where he sought medical help for his suffering. He even wanted to pay out of his own pocket for the necessary treatment, but was denied.

Look at Chaz Bono - he suffered for years, not understanding the root cause of his emotional pain. He finally got a proper diagnosis and was treated accordingly. He now lives a very happy/contented life.

I don't condone this guy's behaviour, nor am I making excuses for him. I'm simply pointing out some "FACTS". Isn't that what many here want???

I do however, empathize with this guy's situation after reading the "FACTS".

How many GP's were even educated enough about this back when this guy needed help? Yeah he was, still is on hormone replacements, but for some, this doesn't provide relief from their mental anguish, thus the suicidal tendencies.

God forbid any of your children will have to endure this life-long tormenting illness.

I read a LITTLE bit of that document you posted, but I don't care! Frankly, I don't even if it were FREE, but it is NOT! It deserves nothing for that. ****HECK**** I have had a hard life! OH, I was thinking about telling you about how I ended up like an orphan, was beaten up, etc... But I'll spare you.

So forgive me if I don't feel sorry for its perceptions. and forgive me if I am upset if I even have to pay a penny extra for it. Do you realize that if we paid for this in full with NO debt, it would probably start at about one penny per? That would be enough to buy a nice home for like 5 families! It would be enough to house like 83 small families for a YEAR! And WHY would we do this for it?

Steve

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MoneyMagnetMagnate

12 years ago

He looks more menacing as a woman than he does a man!

He's creepy - in a Michael Caine "Dressed to Kill" sort of way...

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seasoned

12 years ago

I don't believe in conjugal visits EITHER, let alone for a MURDERER! So WHY does he need the bottom part done? He won't be outside, so WHY does he need the body/face done?

If I were the judge, and thought I could do it without rolling the ball down the hill of snow, I would say we could go HALFSIES! Simply cut off the testicles, and give him estrogen. His soft tissue would look more feminine, he would lose muscle mass, the voice might become more feminine, and he would get breasts! Then lets see how he would like THAT in the MEN'S prison! HEY, the courts have held that yo should LIVE as the other sex before having the final transition. And the method I mentioned might only cost like $300.00 and maybe $20 a month. And HE could pay for the $20/month. Why give him the appearance of being a female, and being able to act the part, if he can't even do anything with it?

Steve

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kenmichaels 12 years ago

Originally Posted by seasoned

the method I mentioned might only cost like $300.00

Instead of 300.00. Provide "IT" with a fresh scalpel, then you would have my vote.
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- seasoned 12 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by kenmichaels
  
  Instead of 300.00. Provide "IT" with a fresh scalpel, then you would have my vote.
  
  HEY, I would be for that, but could you imagine the mess. 8-( YIKES!
  
  Steve
  
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YoungAndOpulent

Banned 12 years ago

This is present-day America; where the gays are gonna try to force us to do what THEY want us to do, try to force us to bend the rules for them, or else they're gonna scream discrimination which we all know can get pretty messy. So America is gonna start bending over backwards to please them. They don't want a killer to be uncomfortable in prison because he's gay. Get the f*ck out of here.

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MoneyMagnetMagnate

12 years ago

Originally Posted by YoungAndOpulent

This is present-day America; where the gays are gonna try to force us to do what THEY want us to do, try to force us to bend the rules for them, or else they're gonna scream discrimination which we all know can get pretty messy. So America is gonna start bending over backwards to please them. They don't want a killer to be uncomfortable in prison because he's gay. Get the f*ck out of here.

Sorry to bend your argument, but technically, he's not gay - he's a trans-gender, and for the record, I don't think he should be allowed the operation to make his life "easier" either - he is in prison for life, for murder,and frankly, if he feels suicidal because he feels tortured - tough, I couldn't care less. He can file to appeal his case if he feels he was not given a fair trial. That is a right he still has, and it's on the taxpayer...

And crazy as it sounds (just playing 'devil's advocate' for a moment), he may have been misrepresented in court - had his attorney gone with more mental instability due to his 'condition', ironically he probably would have gotten what he wanted and needed in a mental institution, and/or appropriate treatment.

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YoungAndOpulent

Banned 12 years ago

Originally Posted by MoneyMagnetMagnate

Sorry to bend your argument, but technically, he's not gay - he's a trans-gender, and for the record, I don't think he should be allowed the operation to make his life "easier" either - he is in prison for life, for murder,and frankly, if he feels suicidal because he feels tortured - tough, I couldn't care less. He can file to appeal his case if he feels he was not given a fair trial. That is a right he still has, and it's on the taxpayer...

And crazy as it sounds (just playing 'devil's advocate' for a moment), he may have been misrepresented in court - had his attorney gone with more mental instability due to his 'condition', ironically he probably would have gotten what he wanted and needed in a mental institution, and/or appropriate treatment.

He's not gay? He's a man who's attracted to other men, right? That makes him gay. Who cares if he "feels" like a woman. At the end of the day, he is NOT a woman and even if he gets this procedure done, his genetics in any form of testing will still identify him as a man. There's no such thing as transgender, you're either a man or a woman....period. To me, its disrespectful to women for people to even imply that a man can be a woman.