Another Bullied Teen Suicide

12 years ago

Thanks T-Bird - I actually just read this story and thought it was compelling, but there was a political ad at the beginning on my link, so I was up in the air as to how to post it and remain 'neutral'.

These are very sad things going on with confused, depressed, and desperate teens - we have to come up with better ways of preventing this from happening. (imo)

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thunderbird

12 years ago

I've been feeling shock from this story ever since I learned about it. It is close to home, not so far from where I live. This tragedy could have been avoided. She was only 15! Why did this have to happen?

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Kay King

12 years ago

These sad stories have things in common that lead to the cyber bullying.

Teen sexting and showing their bodies online without being aware they are exhibiting themselves IN PUBLIC when they are online.

Connecting with people they don't know and believing they know who a stranger is in spite of the history of predators pretending to be teens online.

Staying online after an incident has happened. No, bullying shouldn't limit a teen's access or fun - but sometimes it's the only way to keep the bullying at bay.

This mother was aware and trying hard - but sometimes you can't do anything when the snowball is rolling downhill. Sad.

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John Durham

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

These sad stories have things in common that lead to the cyber bullying.

Teen sexting and showing their bodies online without being aware they are exhibiting themselves IN PUBLIC when they are online.

Connecting with people they don't know and believing they know who a stranger is in spite of the history of predators pretending to be teens online.

Staying online after an incident has happened. No, bullying shouldn't limit a teen's access or fun - but sometimes it's the only way to keep the bullying at bay.

This mother was aware and trying hard - but sometimes you can't do anything when the snowball is rolling downhill. Sad.

My daughter did this when she was a teen, starting flirting with some guy on line... and he started asking her to do things like flash...which she never did... She came to me and said he wouldnt leave her alone... so I got on and started talking to him like I was her, got him to say somethings, then said I was her Dad and that I knew his IP address... which I didnt... and told him I would call the cops.... he laughed at me and quoted our address and said he knew exactly where we lived.

So I threw away her computer and changed IP's, and we never heard from him again...

Then I had a long talk with her and told her that she may be naive to it, but to remember...People can track you down easily on the internet. Its nothing to play with. She learned a valuable lesson.

The internet can be dangerous... VERY much so...in naive hands.

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thunderbird

12 years ago

I agree that online access and interaction with strangers are avenues of access for abuse from predators, and some kids are vulnerable to it.

If there was more control over bullying, more severe punishment of bullies, maybe it wouldn't have happened. People do what they can get away with. School authorities should also face the knife of the law if they fail to protect a bullied child -- that would make those mealy-mouthed wimps do something. It is mainly a strong system of laws that controls people (and that is why "self-regulation" fails).

B.C. teen's suicide could lead to criminal charges - British Columbia - CBC News

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thunderbird

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill

Noooooooo -- parents should be executed for failing to supply their offspring with a backbone.

It is a tough world. That girl had learning difficulties and may have lacked what it would take to defend herself. She wasn't properly defended.

Personally, I want that cyber-stalker to hunted down, prosecuted to the full extent of the law with all legal arsenal available, and sent to prison.

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thunderbird

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill

I remember a time during the 60s when people around DC were so rowdy (you know, expressing their opinions and things like that) that the jails couldn't hold them. They herded them into a football stadium and declared it a jail.

I think they should declare Canada a prison and incarcerate everyone. <snip>

I think the States has a bigger problem with overcrowded prisons, lol, eg people who steal loaves of bread or smoke weed (never could stand even the smell of the stuff myself) while those who steal homes, retirement savings etc. live the good life. I believe in a strong system of laws to prosecute criminals according to the gravity of their crimes, not innocent people, but maybe that's because I'm a Canadian.

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Kurt

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill

I remember a time during the 60s when people around DC were so rowdy (you know, expressing their opinions and things like that) that the jails couldn't hold them. They herded them into a football stadium and declared it a jail.

I think they should declare Canada a prison and incarcerate everyone. That way the statists could be happy that all who disagree with them (and many that do) are tucked away safely in the arms of the state and can harm no one.

People will get bullied in a free state. People will get bullied in a totalitarian state. We can't legislate the human condition.

If you want freedom of speech, it comes with responsibility for your words. Cyber bullies should grow a spine and post their real names. Just because you can say things doesn't mean others can't judge you for what you say. That's also freedom. And this freedom is denied by the cowardly cyber bullies who hide from their words and actions.

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thunderbird

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill

Tell it to the cyber bullies. Others may judge as they please. It's when they start clamoring for someone else to do something about it that they're dangerous.

Let's make another draconian law. Gee, we don't have enough of them.

You'd be be singing a different tune if it had been your child or a child you personally knew and cared about. If laws that protect children from predators, pedophiles, and bullies are "draconian" bring the "draconian" laws on.

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thunderbird

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill

Sure I would. I'd cry my heart out to the nearest government agency to do something, anything. I'd never let the fact that I let an unprepared child face things she couldn't handle due to my negligence enter into my thinking.

Individual are never responsible for anything. Responsibility is best left to some nebulous group who can make decisions for me and correct all wrongs.

Of course, If I found the bully and administered a good old south side tire iron attitude correction, I'd be an awful human being.

That is a straw man of your creation, crafted and glued together with some sort of extremist and simplistic dogma. Of course parents should take responsibility for how their children are raised; I wasn't ever disputing that. Who was? If schools fail to protect children from bullies, and predators are free to run wild and victimize children, there should be a means to stop them and punish those who do harm, irrespective of how parents raise their children.

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thunderbird

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill

<snip>
I shudder to think what would happen to people if someone with your...<snip>

I don't have a problem with you, Ken. I got carried away with my comment there which wasn't necessary and didn't help. I'm too busy disagreeing with myself over things to continue an odd abstract debate with you based on presumptions we're making about each other's beliefs.

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kenmichaels

12 years ago

Originally Posted by thunderbird

I don't have a problem with you, Ken. I got carried away with my comment there which wasn't necessary and didn't help. I'm too busy disagreeing with myself over things to continue an odd abstract debate with you based on presumptions we're making about each other's beliefs.

I do that a lot, which is why I don't post here too often...

sometimes it is just too hard to separate ideas and conjecture, from truth .. or fiction from fact ..

or even perceived fact,

for me.. in most cases it is just better to keep my mouth shut

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Kurt

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill

Tell it to the cyber bullies. Others may judge as they please. It's when they start clamoring for someone else to do something about it that they're dangerous.

Let's make another draconian law. Gee, we don't have enough of them.

No, I'll tell it to you. Deal with it.

It doesn't only apply to cyber bullies, it applies to anyone online that has negative comments that can harm another, including their business. People should be responsible for their comments.

Stop being a jellyfish, grow a spine and if people are afraid to reveal their true identity, using your words, "pull the plug" and stay off the Net.

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kenmichaels

12 years ago

Originally Posted by thunderbird

It is a tough world. That girl had learning difficulties and may have lacked what it would take to defend herself. .

Where do you get that from .. the video ? i did not search for any articles...

so i don't know anything but the vid.. and if you got it from that.. how?

if from an article.. can you post the link ?

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thunderbird

12 years ago

Originally Posted by kenmichaels

Where do you get that from .. the video ? i did not search for any articles...

so i don't know anything but the vid.. and if you got it from that.. how?

if from an article.. can you post the link ?

The school she attended was for students with learning difficulties, as the name of the school suggests: "Coquitlam Alternate Basic Education."

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joseph7384

12 years ago

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John Durham 12 years ago

Originally Posted by joseph7384

Just to tell you a little about myself. I was raised on the southside of Chicago

In the baddest part of town?

Did you ever meet a man named.... forget it... not important.
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KimW

12 years ago

Originally Posted by joseph7384

@Ken Caudill

Some of your comments are a bit disturbing.

Just to tell you a little about myself. I was raised on the southside of Chicago in the Bridgeport community which is a pretty tough neighborhood. Growing up in Chicago, teenage boys back in the early 70's did what they could to survive the streets, we stole pop bottles off back porches to redeem them for pinball money, we scalped Whitesox tickets and we would take over an empty lot and park cars for the allstar games at $15 per car.

We did a lot of crazy things including fighting with outsiders but as kids we respected adults and we didn't bully other children, if we fought it was over the next day. As an Italian American I could have chosen to be connected and until today I have acquaintances that are connected but it wasn't the life that I wanted.

Well to get back on topic, sometimes parents have no control over what their children are doing.
Just this summer, I was having lunch with my eighteen year old daughter at Mc donalds and these girls hanging outside wanted to fight with my daughter and I pleaded not to do this in the presence of her father but they insisted. I seen that there was no way out so I insisted that only one of them fight with my daughter. My daughter was getting the best of the other girl and one of the other girls jumped in and when I pulled her off, she turned and "Bam" punched me right in the face and then "Bam" again she punched me in the face. These girls were only 16 years old and to punch a 50 year old man in the face shows what respect they have towards adults.

These youths are America's future, oh what great values they'll contribute to this great nation.

Huh??
Why didn't you get the manager of the McDonalds to kick the girls of the property and/or call the police? You let 16 year olds bully you and your daughter into fighting?

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John Durham

12 years ago

Originally Posted by KimW

Huh??
Why didn't you get the manager of the McDonalds to kick the girls of the property and/or call the police? You let 16 year olds bully you and your daughter into fighting?

The more time one spends in an undignified lifestyle the more they become desensitized to the fact that its really undignified.

What sticks out like a sore thumb to one is barely noticeable to another... I know because I grew up poor and hard with poor and hard principles...and as I became an adult, and changed my circles, and began to learn other things... I realized that alot of stuff that was normal to me, that I didnt notice was totally unthinkable to to an average person.

Now I look back at the neighborhood I came from and see people who cuss like sailors and have never been outside of the projects, and I literally CRINGE for some of the stuff they accept as normal from themselves.

No offense intended, but now we are adults and we can choose what we want to be, what we want to honor, and what we want to be associated with, as well as what purpose we want to serve and what example we are for others...

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joseph7384 12 years ago

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- KimW 12 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by joseph7384
  
  It wasn't McDonalds property, it was a strip mall, they quickly surrounded us and it happened so fast and began swinging punches at my daughter.
  
  Just so you know, I was asking to understand the situation, not trying to give you a hard time....
  
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HeySal

12 years ago

My problem with this is that when she started having problems, they drugged her. Anti-depressants. They know that anti-depressants can induce suicidal tendencies. We need our emotions intact to be able to deal with things - especially when they get hard-core like this situation did. Had she been allowed to function as normal she might have been able to build some perspective.... might have been able to confront some of those that turned away from her head on. But instead of helping her deal with the situation - - someone stuck her on dangerous pharms.

This was not death by bully trauma - this was death by drugs.

There havea always been bullies and there always will be - but I don't remember kids killing themselves over them before they starting drugging kids every time they weren't all sunshine and rainbows either.

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thunderbird

12 years ago

Originally Posted by HeySal

My problem with this is that when she started having problems, they drugged her. Anti-depressants. They know that anti-depressants can induce suicidal tendencies. We need our emotions intact to be able to deal with things - especially when they get hard-core like this situation did. Had she been allowed to function as normal she might have been able to build some perspective.... might have been able to confront some of those that turned away from her head on. But instead of helping her deal with the situation - - someone stuck her on dangerous pharms.

This was not death by bully trauma - this was death by drugs.

There havea always been bullies and there always will be - but I don't remember kids killing themselves over them before they starting drugging kids every time they weren't all sunshine and rainbows either.

Antidepressants are present in a lot of tragic cases, from suicides to acts of murder (eg Columbine). Could antidepressants have rendered her like a declawed cat -- unable to defend herself? It looks to me like many factors contributed to her tragic end, but could something -- perhaps chemical in nature -- have punctured a hole in her armor and make her vulnerable to challenges she might otherwise have been equipped to meet? I don't know.

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GarrieWilson

12 years ago

The school she attended was for students with learning difficulties, as the name of the school suggests: "Coquitlam Alternate Basic Education."

Actually, she was sent there because she was being bullied at "normal" school. According to several articles I read.

At first I didn't believe this as the video looked to polished and it is anti-bullying month.

After her first attempt, she should have been institutionalized.

-g

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thunderbird

12 years ago

Originally Posted by GarrieWilson

Actually, she was sent there because she was being bullied at "normal" school. According to several articles I read.<SNIP>

The mother of suicide victim -Amanda Todd- speaks out - Vancouver Parenting | Examiner.com

"...Amanda, who had learning problems, had excellent support in the Coquitlam school district, where Amanda spent most of her school time."

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GarrieWilson

12 years ago

Originally Posted by thunderbird

The mother of suicide victim -Amanda Todd- speaks out - Vancouver Parenting | Examiner.com

"...Amanda, who had learning problems, had excellent support in the Coquitlam school district, where Amanda spent most of her school time."

That's the first article I have read saying the had learning problems. All the others, I've read, said she changed schools after being bullied.

-g

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thunderbird 12 years ago

Originally Posted by GarrieWilson

That's the first article I have read saying the had learning problems. All the others, I've read, said she changed schools after being bullied.

-g

Whatever the case may be, she didn't deserve such relentless bullying and it is a tragedy that a 15-year-old suffered so much hat she took her own life. Whether or not she had learning difficulties for whatever reasons (be it post traumatic stress syndrome or something else), her final video was well-shot and shows that she obviously had talent, now forever lost.
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thunderbird 12 years ago

Originally Posted by GarrieWilson

That's the first article I have read saying the had learning problems. All the others, I've read, said she changed schools after being bullied.

-g

Amanda Todd: ‘She shared everything with me,’ Amanda’s mother talks about life with her daughter | Vancouver Sun
"Carol, a teacher who works with children with learning disabilities, recognized early on that her daughter had learning challenges. She knew raising her would take more time and effort than it would for a typical child."
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HeySal

12 years ago

Joseph - don't get me wrong. I believe in punishing kids that are bullies. I believe they have problems of their own that need to be dealt with as well.

What I do not believe is that "prosecution" and "lawsuit" are correct reactions. Our nation becomes more severely f***ed up every time we allow the gov to become involved in any aspect of our lives. We need to get a grip, cowboy up, and start handling things on our own again without legal and gov interference. It used to work and it can still work. Communities need to start locking gov surveillance and rules out of their system and start treating humans like humans again. Only when someone becomes a problem beyond fixing via parents, teachers, and community should anyone consider resorting to the law to get them out of the way and teach the last lesson, that if you won't become normal enough to live here without hurting anyone, we will just lock you away from everyone.

Every time I hear anyone scream about gov has to do this about that or about prosecuting kids for what used to be handled ourselves, it just makes my teeth clench. This is the prescription for tyranny.

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thunderbird

12 years ago

Originally Posted by HeySal

<snip>We need to get a grip, cowboy up, and start handling things on our own again without legal and gov interference. <snip>

Who are you referring to when you say "our own"? Kids? Parents? Family? Community? How would it be applied?

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HeySal

12 years ago

Originally Posted by thunderbird

Who are you referring to when you say "our own"? Kids? Parents? Family? Community? How would it be applied?

Yes, yes, and yes. What do you mean how would it be applied? Just the same damned way we always applied it before the gov started interfering in every aspect of our lives.

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thunderbird

12 years ago

Originally Posted by HeySal

Yes, yes, and yes.

When people organize and implement things as a community, that is known as "government."

What do you mean how would it be applied? Just the same damned way we always applied it before the gov started interfering in every aspect of our lives.

Whatever happened in her case, FAILED. She needed help from the community.

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HeySal

12 years ago

Originally Posted by thunderbird

When people organize and implement things as a community, that is known as "government."

Whatever happened in her case, FAILED. She needed help from the community.

I'm not talking about "organizing or implementing" anything but good parenting and neighboring - like we used to do it. Schools worked because people cared, not because of "programs". Kids learned to act like decent humans because of good parenting, good neighbors - not because of "Laws". What I'm talking about is self-established responsibility to oneself, family, and neighbors - not legislation, programs, laws.

It saddens me that people have forgotten so cleanly how to live together as humans that just the suggestion would confuse someone about how to "implement such a program".

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thunderbird

12 years ago

Originally Posted by HeySal

I'm not talking about "organizing or implementing" anything but good parenting and neighboring - like we used to do it. Schools worked because people cared, not because of "programs". Kids learned to act like decent humans because of good parenting, good neighbors - not because of "Laws". What I'm talking about is self-established responsibility to oneself, family, and neighbors - not legislation, programs, laws.

It saddens me that people have forgotten so cleanly how to live together as humans that just the suggestion would confuse someone about how to "implement such a program".

I'd be happy with anything that worked, whether as you describe or by force of the law. Frankly I suspect the only way to stop those de facto psychopaths who attacked her would be by the knife of the law. Even after her suicide, they are still writing vicious comments on her her Facebook memorial page.

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joseph7384

12 years ago

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HeySal

12 years ago

Originally Posted by joseph7384

Perhaps they put the wrong child on drugs, it's these creeps that said "drink some more bleach so you can do it right this time" who are in need of the drugs.

I am wondering where these kids parents are. Would they just shrug it off or realize that something was very, very wrong with their little "angel"? I know if I ever caught a child of mine acting in such a violent, vicious manner, they wouldn't be on the net or any sort of interactive device for a hell of a long time. My guess is that kid is as messed up, lonely, and frustrated as the one who killed herself and needs loads of help. Some people turn it inside - some take it out on everyone else.

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John Durham

12 years ago

Originally Posted by HeySal

I am wondering where these kids parents are.

I wish good parenting solved everything...but it really doesnt.

Like Gibran talks about in the Prophet, children arent our belongings, they are their own people, as much as I wish I could own them and make them do only whats good for them.

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MikeAmbrosio

12 years ago

Originally Posted by John Durham

I wish good parenting solved everything...but it really doesnt.

Like Gibran talks about in the Prophet, children arent our belongings, they are their own people, as much as I wish I could own them and make them do only whats good for them.

While good parenting doesn't solve everything it sure hedges your bets a little (or, a LOT).

But good parenting is more than just "taking an interest" in your child's life. It means being hands on - every single day. Yes, it's a tough thing to do, but when you are investing in your child's future, to me there should never be a question. I know too many parents today who THINK they are taking an interest in their child's life, but really have no clue what their kids are up to.

I have 2 adult sons now (24, 22). When they were young, I told them and showed them how I know every single site they visit on line, and every single conversation they had on chats. I taught myself to do this. Most of their playmates came to my house so I can keep an eye on what was going on.

My teen aged step daughter is still convinced that not only can I tell WHO she is texting on her phone, but that I can also log in to my account and read her actual texts (I can't of course - but she doesn't need to know that

). We have log ins to ALL of her online accounts (which these days it's mostly Facebook and email).

My 9 year old has his own Facebook page. BUT... we monitor EVERY SINGLE THING he does. We approve all his "friends" (which is to say we personally know every person on his friends list). We give him time limits.

Every night we sit with our kids and do homework with them. Every night we sit as a family at 6 PM and have dinner. No phones or TV allowed. Just conversation. Frankly, they love this time of day.

Bullying is disgusting and bullies MUST be dealt with. My problem with government intervention is they don't know where to draw a line and call every damn thing bullying. So this is not necessarily the best answer.

I was bullied as a kid (8th grade). But here's the thing... I was taught certain things by my mother such as: insults only come from those you love. And never let them see your pain. Bullies thrive on the feeling of power derived by their victims reactions. So I never reacted - or, in many cases, I laughed at myself right along with them. When they realized they absolutely could not get under my skin, they left me alone.

And at least once, I dropped a bully who was persistent. Most bullies are cowards.

Good parenting isn't enough. Proactive parenting is better. Will it solve everything? No. But it really increases the odds for survival.

Edit: Today my step daughter made this post on her Facebook page:

Never be bullied into silence. Never allow yourself to be made a victim. Accept no one's definition of your life; define yourself.♥

She's a good egg

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TimPhelan

12 years ago

That is just disgusting. It's bad enough to do what they did before she died, but to then keep on doing it...? Unbelievable.

Originally Posted by thunderbird

Even after her suicide, they are still writing vicious comments on her her Facebook memorial page.

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MissTerraK

12 years ago

What wastes of perfectly good young skin!

Too bad the brains, mouths, morals and consciences aren't just as good.

This poor girl certainly got the short end of the stick in life in so many arenas.

I hate to say it, but I'm beginning to lose faith in the humanity of our society and their offspring. <sigh>

Terra

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John Durham

12 years ago

Originally Posted by MissTerraK

What wastes of perfectly good young skin!

Too bad the brains, mouths, morals and consciences aren't just as good.

This poor girl certainly got the short end of the stick in life in so many arenas.

I hate to say it, but I'm beginning to lose faith in the humanity of our society and their offspring. <sigh>

Terra

Me too Mrs. Terra... It seems like the world gets darker and darker. We know how to make money on the Warrior Forum, but money isnt everything.

I just want to do my time, stretch my potential as far as it can go, and leave alot of inspiration behind, God knows the next generation will need it.

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celente

12 years ago

This is horrible, hate to hear this sad news, really tears you up.

This is a massive problem here in oz too. Our neighbours have a kid who is overweight, but he does not eat much, he just has a medical conditions, but you can see how depressed he is, as other kids taunt him, and call him names. Such a sad world in which we live, and kids can be VERY CRUEL.

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thunderbird

12 years ago

Here's a new development:
Amanda Todd's alleged tormentor named by hacker group - British Columbia - CBC News

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SandraLarkin

Banned 12 years ago

This is a symptom of society, and where it is headed. It is much deeper because of the lewdness in pop culture and the pure vitriol it produces. I can write a theses on it, but in my opinion the two go hand in hand.

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NeoGills 12 years ago

I have been seeking for this full story but didn't find it all
and finally i found here
Thanks for showing me.
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esuresh

12 years ago

All these are being siad after she is dead. There was nobody to help her even after she put her video. ( May be nobody was even aware that she put her video on Youtube. I was not.). What can we do now?. Let us trace who ever had done this and make him go through the same hell that this poor girl went through. I feel he should be publicly beaten to death. Sorry that I am being blunt here.

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seasoned

12 years ago

MAN, some "interviewers" are *****IDIOTS*****! They suggested that she do MORE! She did ENOUGH, not that she had to do ANYTHING! They wanted her to involve MORE kids! THAT was the problem! The WRONG kids WERE involved.

SERIOUSLY, did they fail to EVER watch TV or go to school at least once? Did they develop AMNESIA once they hit a certain age? Were they BRAINWASHED!?!?!?!? Did they come from another planet? Are they not human? Because outside of ANY of those cases being true, I can't understand why they don't know about bullies.

Steve

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