Human Ecology - How Sustainable? (Not another 'The End of the World is Nigh' Question) | Warrior Forum - The #1 Digital Marketing Forum & Marketplace

12 years ago

I know I go on about this all the time, but if we don't stop Monsanto and the other biotech companies from controlling our food, we're f**ked.
Here's just one more example of the unintended consequences of genetically engineered crops.
Siskiyou Seed: New Organism Ravages GMO Round Up Ready Corn & Soy.

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Jesse L

12 years ago

Well, what I have done is; this past year I bought some undeveloped property out in the middle of nowhere Missouri. MY son, his girlfriend and I then left in mid April and spent the next 5 months clearing some of the land, putting in gardens, built a cabin and then stocked it with preserved food and a quantity of water. I didn't do this just for a bug out place but to also give my son something to call his own and give him something to work for and be proud of.

This coming Spring, if it comes, my son is going back to set up solar and wind energy and to have a well dug. There is a stream close by but well, a well just makes things easier.

It was a very tough 5 months for me as the heatwave and drought took it's toll, but it was also magical, filled with many memories that I will not soon forget.
But I must admit, it was nice to get back to running water, air conditioning and not having to run 30 miles to town to use McD's wifi.

This is something I would never have been able to do if I had been locked into a "real job". Guess there are some advantages to being a bit of a rebel

JL

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The difference between a successful person and others is not a lack of strength, not a lack of knowledge, but rather a lack of will. â€“ Vince Lambardi

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HeySal

12 years ago

Considering we are inside of a major, human caused, extinction our prospects are pretty shaky. We need immediate action as of about two decades ago to forestall it and turn it around. People think the extinction is all about plants and animals, but as the dominant species, we're about toast.

Much work is going on to save ecosystems, but it's not going to be enough with some of the actions of our politicians and major corporations and considering some of the damage already done.

We're in more trouble than people realize. We're running out of a few elements that will change our life drastically when they are gone. The underground supply of copper, for instance, is going to be gone within the decade. That's pretty scary.

In the gulf - oil is leaking a lot faster than we've been told. They are also still spraying corexit. The poison is starting to hit the shores - it is also continuing to cull marine life. Why are they doing this? Because the heaviness of the water at the bottom has stopped the normal flow of water in and out of the gulf and is changing weather patterns globally. In a few more decades, the shores of the gulf should be completely uninhabitable. That's just ONE problem. Fukashima is now sinking and if they don't get that radiation under control almost immediately it could render most of the earth completely uninhabitable.

Population has grown to a point we are completely stripping the earth of everything that made it survivable for us. That will take care of itself (and nature is not kind or gentle) but with companies like Monsatan insisting they can provide food for a growing population and poisioning everything in its path we have not one bat's chance in hell of diverting a major catastrophe if they are not stopped. Most countries are "getting that" and kicking that crap out of their country - but the US is attempting to see them control our entire food supply..........which is just plain genocide. Here in the US they even poison the water supply - which we drink and the poison goes back out into water bodies and gets washed around worldwide. We are almost out of enough potable water to support our life and lives of many other species. There is talk of further raping the ocean to make up for it - when what we need to do is stop poisoning water and start cleaning the poisons out of all of it that we can clean up.

We need to get back to natural resources - but our numbers are too large to do so. Even with artificial substances we are managing to completely strip forests - an extremely deadly and complete act of stupidity from a species that thinks it's pretty smart. Again - politics going in for the kill - we could avoid much of the forestry stripping by growing hemp, which can be used for everything from food to paper to building supplies and would save the forests we need to survive. But noooooooooooooo -- we have to worry about who dies with the most money and power instead.

I believe that humans will survive as a species - but also think we're looking at a die-off that will stagger the imagination of even the best horror fiction writer before too long. If we die off in a large enough number, parts of the earth will be able to refurbish itself and come back to full life supporting condition (minus a few minerals and metals that we have stripped). I just hope the survivors will learn how not to let this crap happen again.

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Sal
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Mark Andrews

Banned 12 years ago

Pre-cise-ly.

Thank you Heysal.

It's reassuring to see I'm not the only person seeing all of this around me continuously.

Most people unfortunately just seem to have their heads buried in the sand.

You know, if and when the sh!t really hits the fan, just out of personal interest, what's your own personal back up plan?

Only I see this impending catastrophe as being inevitable, it's just a case of when it's all going to kick off now.

We're at the point of no return. A planet wide extinction is almost certainly on the cards in the next decade, or two at most the way I see it.

Kindest regards,

Mark Andrews

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seasoned

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Mark Andrews

Pre-cise-ly.

Thank you Heysal.

It's reassuring to see I'm not the only person seeing all of this around me continuously.

Most people unfortunately just seem to have their heads buried in the sand.

You know, if and when the sh!t really hits the fan, just out of personal interest, what's your own personal back up plan?

Only I see this impending catastrophe as being inevitable, it's just a case of when it's all going to kick off now.

We're at the point of no return. A planet wide extinction is almost certainly on the cards in the next decade, or two at most the way I see it.

Kindest regards,

Mark Andrews

I'm glad you were kidding. It is ASTOUNDING how many don't realize what is happening. When I hear of all the stuff going on, WOW! I thought, for example, that sewage was treated, etc... but a lot of it flows into the OCEAN! That not only kills stuff, and pollutes the waters, but it weakens all sorts of support. That is only ONE MINOR example. I could list DOZENS. Some have planet wide implications that have been happening for decades.

Even HEALTHCARE! A LOT of it is due to garbage like this.

Sadly, my current position affords me little support for a good backup plan at the moment, but I still have SOME reserve.

Steve

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HeySal

12 years ago

I give it 7 years to really kick in. Famine was supposed to move from a man-made to a natural crisis by 2020 - but there are a few things that are starting to take shape that are going to make us feel the crunch a lot sooner. Monsanto will start a die off from disease if they get their new corn into enough mouths. At least that will sterilize the population and hinder growth rates - but it will also do the same to diverse species of wildlife and that's something we can't afford right now.

When copper runs out, and irridium (I might have irridium wrong - might be another I mineral) we're going to see real changes to our present way of life - and possibly more resource wars. Anyone who isn't expecting resource wars when things start running out is is fool. When food becomes scarce resource wars will be internal as well as external and people will just destroy everything.

As far as a plan. Not saying a word. I'd like to be able to survive for a normal lifespan.

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Sal
When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
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Jesse L

12 years ago

Originally Posted by HeySal

I give it 7 years to really kick in. Famine was supposed to move from a man-made to a natural crisis by 2020 - but there are a few things that are starting to take shape that are going to make us feel the crunch a lot sooner. Monsanto will start a die off from disease if they get their new corn into enough mouths. At least that will sterilize the population and hinder growth rates - but it will also do the same to diverse species of wildlife and that's something we can't afford right now.

When copper runs out in irridium (I might have irridium wrong - might be another I mineral) we're going to see real changes to our present way of life - and possibly more resource wars. Anyone who isn't expecting resource wars when things start running out is is fool. When food becomes scarce resource wars will be internal as well as external and people will just destroy everything.

As far as a plan. Not saying a word. I'd like to be able to survive for a normal lifespan.

Kind of makes everything seem so pointless...

I certainly hope you are mistaken but I fear that you are totally correct in everything you say. And the worst part is, there is nothing that can stop it now.

You know, it is not so much what happens to us that concerns me. We All helped to make this mess. But our children did not... and they are the ones that are going to suffer the most.

We do need to think of them and their future. We need to teach our children that material things and luxury are not the real items of happiness.

OUR Greed is our downfall and the future will pay dearly for it.

Sigh... I think I need a drink... or a dispensary

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HeySal

12 years ago

Who's kidding, Steve? This isn't funny stuff.

Jess - nobody gets out of here alive anyway. We have to try our best to do what we can and to make sense of things. We're here for a purpose. I have to believe that sentience isn't just a cruel joke of nature that is wiped out at death. Quantum physics says we survive death. Religions say the same. For my own sanity, I believe that I am here intended to learn something..........so I just continue learning and hope that I find what I was put here seeking. I also hope that the Hindus are not right - I definitely do not want to do this again. I also maintain that I am expecting a phenomenal punch line on the other side.

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Sal
When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
Beyond the Path

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seasoned

12 years ago

Originally Posted by HeySal

Who's kidding, Steve? This isn't funny stuff.

Jess - nobody gets out of here alive anyway. We have to try our best to do what we can and to make sense of things. We're here for a purpose. I have to believe that sentience isn't just a cruel joke of nature that is wiped out at death. Quantum physics says we survive death. Religions say the same. For my own sanity, I believe that I am here intended to learn something..........so I just continue learning and hope that I find what I was put here seeking. I also hope that the Hindus are not right - I definitely do not want to do this again. I also maintain that I am expecting a phenomenal punch line on the other side.

When people talk about "make believe", etc... I start wondering, and I guess it was so late tat it looked almost like a taunt.

The Christian religion says only SOME will survive, and they won't be that comfortable. It is incredible that the human race has had SO much potential, and SQUANDERED it! If the population had been kept smaller, and inventions had been used for the benefit of all, it could have been a paradise. And NOW, most are put into a mold that almost PREVENTS them from being part of the solution, though it is now millions of times harder to have as much impact. In a way, what is to come, is just a further progression of the same. Things will get harder STILL.

Steve

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Mark Andrews

Banned 12 years ago

Seriously folks and I don't mean to sound condescending...

If I were you, I'd seriously start looking at your back up plans. You're going to need a place to hunker down into and at least enough supplies to last you for a year or more.

Look at it like this...

Sooner or later, we not when, the sh!t really is going to hit the fan - big time.

And when that happens things will start to go downhill extraordinarily quickly.

We can only survive at best 3 days on average without water for example before you start going stark raving nuts. Now take a city like London for example, I say London because I live in the UK...

Most city dwellers haven't got a clue where most of their food or produce comes from. They simply go to the supermarket to replenish their supplies.

Water pops out of the tap in abundance. Anything and everything a wo/man could wish for is immediately on tap. Want something, you go out and buy it with no thought or consideration going in often to how this resource arrived there in the first place delivered into your hands.

You only have to look at the London riots a couple of years ago to see how quickly and nasty things can turn within just a few hours.

If infrastructure starts breaking down one day and the water supplies dry up, almost instantly you're going to have millions of people going crazy / demented to drink water.

The first day or two, they'll probably be just about enough to keep everyone happy by and large. Day three though and the shortage will seriously kick in. By the end of the week people will start going stir crazy for water and they'll do anything to get their hands on this resource, which to date they've always taken for granted.

Mob rule will rule the day. Hundreds of thousands if not millions of people trying to get out of the city towards the countryside. Most people equating the countryside with where their food and water supplies come from.

Immediately outside any major city it will be bedlam. A very dangerous place to be. Armed gangs, looters, just about any stir crazy fool relishing the initial anarchy looking to start a fight for the sake of it with anyone. Old arguments between neighbors and friends pushing many to the edge. Nowhere within 100+ miles of any major city will be safe.

If you want to secure at least a modicum of normality within your family and community - try to head for areas where large numbers of people are likely to avoid for whatever reason and bunker down.

In advance, as in now, start preparing a disaster management plan to keep you, your family, and friends safe.

I'm not writing this out of paranoia. I'm writing this for your own good just in case the inevitable hits sooner rather than later.

Forget all about what you think you might need under ideal circumstances. Just concentrate all of your resources, time, and energy into acquiring the basic essentials. Life on the other side of an event like this will not be pretty. You'll be basically living life through very frugal means providing just enough to get your community group through the day. Living hand to mouth, day to day.

You'll want to stay hidden, out of sight, out of mind. Although it sounds a little extreme now, if you can afford to think about investing in an underground bunker or former missile silo, do so. They do come up on the market fairly regularly believe it or not. Cost wise you'll be looking at anything from $200k upwards.

You'll need to think about water, food, energy, waste disposal, sanitation, security, medical care, emergency transportation and a 101 other things including an escape plan or plan B too - to last a minimum of 12 months.

The reason why you're not doing this right now, preparing in advance... is because at the moment whilst everything is still tickety boo, you're associating this exercise with pain rather than pleasure.

Your pleasure is maintaining at the moment everything you've already got on this side of such an event.

When you start associating pleasure with surviving on the other side of this event, then in the here and now, you might start thinking more seriously about your preparations for the future.

99% of people will bury their heads in the sand and scoff at such a notion - they can't see it ever happening.

Nor can they see the rapid escalation of violence associated with such an enormous breakdown of basic infrastructure across nation states globally. Things will get extremely nasty to put it very mildly.

The further away you are from other people on the surface the better your groups chances of survival. Being prepared in advance whilst you still have plenty of the basics now and readily available resources will stand you in good stead for the future. If you prepare well in advance.

If you cannot afford to put an emergency plan together under your own steam consider getting a few heads together to spread out the cost of putting a plan into action - starting now.

Small community groups with a strong focus on survival, each member having their own unique skills to bring to the table in the interests of the overall group survival strategy will be in with a much better chance of surviving the odds in case of such an event.

Wilderness country, Alaska, parts of Canada, North America your chances of survival in these areas are pretty good if you execute a plan starting today. Australia similarly. And parts of Africa too. Europe will be a mess. The UK pretty much done for, there's very little space here given the size of the population except for parts of Scotland. Small islands will also be a good choice.

The 'good news' is whilst you and your family are hunkered down, out of sight, out of mind the rest of the poor ignorant sods who chose to formerly bury their heads in the sand, their numbers will start falling off pretty quickly. Certainly within 3-6 months the population will be significantly reduced. Lessening the danger.

The downside to this is that the ones who are still left on the surface will be hell bent themselves on survival and they'll stop at nothing to get their hands on the essentials to make sure they live as long as possible.

You'll need good leadership, a cool head, and all the protection you can afford if you want to survive at least 12 months.

I'm just saying, think about all of this now whilst you still can. Better prepared now, this side of such an event rather than being ill prepared the other side of such a global collapse.

Take the military for example...

They don't plan for certain unfolding events just for the sake of it. Their actions are based on intelligence gathered. They prepare for any eventuality. To win the war. To push the odds in their favor of winning, getting the result they want.

It's not paranoia the war preparations they put in place. They do it to protect themselves from every conceivable attack from an enemy. If they didn't prepare so well in advance you can bet your bottom dollar the enemy would take advantage of this exploit, this gap in their preparations to win one over on their strategies to achieve the upper hand.

You too can learn a few lessons in advance from this approach.

The government won't look after you in this kind of scenario.

The police will be non-existent.

There will be no-one to call on, no telephones, no mobile phones, no Internet, nothing. It will be and is right now completely up to you and you alone to prepare now for these events in the future.

Better well prepared than to not be prepared at all.

A friendly piece of advice. Research online. See what you need to do. There's plenty of good information out there, groups you can approach to ask for advice right now.

Smoking hot,

Mark Andrews

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Kurt

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Mark Andrews

I'm not writing this out of paranoia. I'm writing this for your own good just in case the inevitable hits sooner rather than later.

It is only your opinion that this is "inevitable". The vast majority of experts disagree with you.

IMO, things will get tougher and food prices and other basics will rise, but that's a far cry from the Mad Max World Mark says is "inevitable".

You'll want to stay hidden, out of sight, out of mind. Although it sounds a little extreme now, if you can afford to think about investing in an underground bunker or former missile silo, do so. They do come up on the market fairly regularly believe it or not. Cost wise you'll be looking at anything from $200k upwards.

I REFUSE to imprison myself. Living in a hole is NOT living.

Wilderness country, Alaska, parts of Canada, North America your chances of survival in these areas are pretty good if you execute a plan starting today. Australia similarly. And parts of Africa too. Europe will be a mess. The UK pretty much done for, there's very little space here given the size of the population except for parts of Scotland. Small islands will also be a good choice.

This is the WORST advice that could be given, often repeated by the Prepper World.

Half of the year, someone new to the area doesn't have a chance in hell of surviving off the land. There's a reason bears hibernate for 6 months of every year, and bears are far better at finding food than people will ever be. People that live off the land in these areas are still dependant on society. They still need things like flour, machinery, gas, etc. These folks are very skilled at what they do, but if something little goes wrong, even they are in a world of hurt.

Native people are/were also very migratory. The one guy that still lives in ANWAR (he was grandfathered in) has 3 cabins dozens of miles apart, so he can move from one to the other to let the wild life replenish. Residents of Alaska set out trap lines that are 6 (or more) miles long, just trying to catch enough rabbit to get them through the winter.

Eskimos/Inuit travel 100s of miles using snow machines to eek out a living. And, they know where to go. Those that depend on dog sleds will find that about once a decade they don't catch enough food to feed their dogs and end up putting them down because of it. And these are the experts.

And all of this doesn't even include the social factors...Most people can't be alone for months on end without going totally insane.

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ThomM

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Kurt

It is only your opinion that this is "inevitable". The vast majority of experts disagree with you.

IMO, things will get tougher and food prices and other basics will rise, but that's a far cry from the Mad Max World Mark says is "inevitable".

I REFUSE to imprison myself. Living in a hole is NOT living.

This is the WORST advice that could be given, often repeated by the Prepper World.

Half of the year, someone new to the area doesn't have a chance in hell of surviving off the land. There's a reason bears hibernate for 6 months of every year, and bears are far better at finding food than people will ever be. People that live off the land in these areas are still dependant on society. They still need things like flour, machinery, gas, etc. These folks are very skilled at what they do, but if something little goes wrong, even they are in a world of hurt.

Native people are/were also very migratory. The one guy that still lives in ANWAR (he was grandfathered in) has 3 cabins dozens of miles apart, so he can move from one to the other to let the wild life replenish. Residents of Alaska set out trap lines that are 6 (or more) miles long, just trying to catch enough rabbit to get them through the winter.

Eskimos/Inuit travel 100s of miles using snow machines to eek out a living. And, they know where to go. Those that depend on dog sleds will find that about once a decade they don't catch enough food to feed their dogs and end up putting them down because of it. And these are the experts.

And all of this doesn't even include the social factors...Most people can't be alone for months on end without going totally insane.

As much as I hate to do it, I've got to agree with you Kurt

I've got a bit of wilderness survival training. I can build shelters, make bedding and all the other "essentials". I know how to build a variety of traps from snares to dead falls. I have a good working knowledge of wild edibles and know how to purify water and start a fire without matches.
I wouldn't give myself a week in the wilderness of Alaska in winter

Being migratory is practically essential. At least in the beginning.
I have a stash of heirloom vegetable seeds I renew annually. At some point you will settle down and start communities again.

Oh yea, I'm also well prepared for Zombies

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Life: Nature's way of keeping meat fresh
Getting old ain't for sissy's
As you are I was, as I am you will be
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Mark Andrews

Banned 11 years ago

Originally Posted by Kurt

It is only your opinion that this is "inevitable". The vast majority of experts disagree with you.

IMO, things will get tougher and food prices and other basics will rise, but that's a far cry from the Mad Max World Mark says is "inevitable".

As it is Kurt, in your opinion too, that this scenario is far fetched.

Likewise many experts might also disagree with you. This works both ways of course.

It's amazing as history has proven over and over again how quickly things can change out from relative 'normality' to complete chaos.

Take the extinction of the dinosaurs for example. A whopping great asteroid hits planet earth and what have you got? Massive instant change on your hands.

What if a rogue nation state lets off a nuclear weapon aimed at another country, what have you got? Third world war?

What if fuel supplies as we know them start drying up? What have you got? Instant fuel and heating shortages plus...?

What if you've got a huge super storm coming up from the equator region colliding with a super ice storm descending from the north pole? What have you got? Major, major disruption to all basic infrastructure across a very wide area indeed.

What if the powder keg, tinder box that is the Near and Middle East really kicks off? What have you got?

What if a subduction zone earthquake of unprecedented proportions kicks off setting off a chain reaction of other earthquakes around the ring of fire and elsewhere? What have you got?

What if a super volcano erupts, for example, if Yellowstone went up big time - what have you got?

Look at the first world war. The second world war. The Cuban missile crisis. The Cold War or any one of a number of other factors - what have you very quickly got on your hands?

What if the humble bumble bee is almost wiped out of existence? Think it can't happen? How many other animal species in the past 50 years, 100 years have gone the way of total extinction? How would food crops be pollinated without the bee? What would happen shortly afterwards? I'll leave this to your imagination.

The answer is obvious.

Not having a go at you Kurt but there are a huge number of variables at play now because basically, we as a species, we're decimating our planet, our home, the earth's natural resources at an astonishing rate and sooner or later...

...this is going to come back and bite us in the ass - one way or another.

So I can think of a 101 reasons why one must be more prepared for the future to the best of one's ability.

Just saying. Stating another perfectly valid opinion.

What do you think of this counter argument?

Smoking hot,

Mark Andrews

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HeySal

12 years ago

I have my army survival guide = get one.

Mark - 3 to 6 months will, indeed, take most out. Of course, martial law will be the rule of the day so many won't get out of the cities at all. Being trapped by martial law will NOT guarantee survival. The plan won't be for most to survive.

I hear people saying they are going to run to the mountains - people who have never lived in mountains. What a lark. At least we can hope they take a lot of supplies so we can be comfy after we bury them, eh?

Incidentally - people will strip the ecosystems during this stage of melt-down. 7 billion people who need to cook and stay warm will just decimate nature.

Incidentally -- people who are "preparers" in the US are now on terrorist lists, as are those who pay cash for things. Barter is the safest way to stock up. When things get desperate, if there's a record that you own supplies, the military will seize them so you've done yourself no favors.

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Sal
When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
Beyond the Path

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Mark Andrews Banned 12 years ago

You ever come across this outfit Heysal?...

Vivos - Underground Shelter Network for Surviving 2012 and Beyond

Smoking hot,

Mark Andrews
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HeySal

12 years ago

So you think that in a complete meltdown there's gonna be TV and Internet? Wonder if members get a discount or partial refund when those systems go down.

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Sal
When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
Beyond the Path

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Mark Andrews

Banned 12 years ago

Of course not. I don't for a second believe there will be any services at all as we know them today. Which goes without saying.

This company I think are just riding the 2012 wave.

Interesting nonetheless.

Mark Andrews

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ThomM 12 years ago

I hear people saying they are going to run to the mountains - people who have never lived in mountains.

Well Sal we won't have TV's for entertainment anymore so they will do
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Life: Nature's way of keeping meat fresh
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As you are I was, as I am you will be
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HeySal

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Mark Andrews

Of course not. I don't for a second believe there will be any services at all as we know them today. Which goes without saying.

This company I think are just riding the 2012 wave.

Interesting nonetheless.

Mark Andrews

Well, it's a good scam, anyway Mark, gotta love it. They are making a great income and by the time anyone finds out that they've paid and can't get in they probably won't survive it anyway so there won't be anyone to file charges or sue - as if the money will be good AFTER the fact even if you survive. LAMO

Originally Posted by ThomM

Well Sal we won't have TV's for entertainment anymore so they will do

I'm counting on them to have shitloads of "necessities" that will provide some luxury to life when we bury those dead carcasses.

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Sal
When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
Beyond the Path

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Mark Andrews

Banned 12 years ago

Originally Posted by HeySal

Well, it's a good scam, anyway Mark, gotta love it. They are making a great income and by the time anyone finds out that they've paid and can't get in they probably won't survive it anyway so there won't be anyone to file charges or sue - as if the money will be good AFTER the fact even if you survive. LAMO

Exactly, that's why I posted it up. Some people eh?

Of course you could always join me on my little island in Greece. Every Englishman's home is his castle as they say. Hey, at least we'll have azure turquoise blue seas, plenty of sunshine, and ouzo. What could be better?

Leave the defense of the island to me.

Up top there won't be much to see, below ground in the sea caves, I'll have a little sub waiting for any intruders. Oh look! An armed bandit on the surface in his sailing boat. Ready about! Launch the torpedo!

"Oh sh!t! Was that Big Mike?"

"So Soorrryyy, send the pod up Heysal. Throw the man a rubber ring."

All joking aside, Greece despite the economic climate, with her thousands of islands wouldn't be a bad place to hole up in Europe with plenty of forward planning and preparation. Food stocks, water supplies etc.

Smoking hot,

Mark Andrews

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seasoned 12 years ago

Originally Posted by HeySal

So you think that in a complete meltdown there's gonna be TV and Internet? Wonder if members get a discount or partial refund when those systems go down.

OF COURSE!!!!! There are a LOT of people saying that the telephone companies are going to DIE because of the internet! They say that microsoft or whatever is going to BUY the internet!

This is funny, because the internet is just THAT! An INTER connection of computers. Basically, every intersection is a computer or some other component, and they are owned by MILLIONS of people! And the connection medium? TRADITIONALLY? In MOST cases? It is PHONE LINES!!!!!!!!! Check it out! Go to the big hosts, and see what connections they talk about, etc....

BUT, back to your question.... If the local power is no longer provided, or phone services aren't provided, the Internet is GONE!!!!!!!!!!!!

AND, some figure that they will use CELL PHONES!!!!!!!! Well, TECHNICALLY, cell phones DON'T exist! They are mobile terminals for a central repeating tower. They can't act like a phone AT ALL!

It is really just a radio unit that calls the closest available tower within 2 miles. EVEN if a person is right next to you and ALSO has a cell phone, you CAN'T call them! The signal goes to a tower from you, and it connects to a tower near them and relays the call to them. So how are the TOWERS connected? The LAND LINE telephone system!

Yeah, there is too much taken for granted.

Steve
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Kurt

12 years ago

While I don't believe we should spend much time on prepping for the End of the World As We Know It situation, we should all be prepared for disasters.

Water is an essential. Most people live close to some source of water, so it's more an issue of clean water than a water storage issue.

A good way to "pre-treat" water is to let it sit overnight in a container. Then skim off the top of the water, and don't disturb the bottom. Few materials have the same density/weight as water, so impurities will either float or sink.

Same with boiling water...Few materials have the same boiling temperature as water. Bring a pot of water to boil for 5 minutes to let everything with a lower boiling temperature than water to evaporate. Then, don't boil all of the water out of the pot so that anything with a lower boiling temperature of water won't evaporate.

Another thing you can do is buy some "pool shock". Pool shock is concentrated bleach used to keep swimming pools clean. Bottles of bleach have a pretty short shelf life, while pool shock lasts for decades. Pool shock is also much cheaper.

Also, learn how to filter and purify water using as many methods as possible. A simple solar oven can pasteurize water. An old pressure cooker is perfect for distilling water, if you need to use sea/salt water. Layers of sand and charcoal makes a great filteration system.

My suggestions for water:
Pool shock
Sand and charcoal
Lots of foil (for solar ovens)
Clear plastics sheets/oven bags
Pressure cooker with potable hot water PVC tubing. While copper tubing may seem better, copper is something that could be considered a precious metal and just be something that could get you mugged.

Pressure cookers are great for distilling water because of their design they use far less energy to boil water.

Pressure cooker water still.flv - YouTube

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Murtag

12 years ago

There's quite a few hefty posts here and given most of them a read,
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As a bit of an alternating view point from the majority mentioned here, I reckon we have at least a couple of decades left before things reach some of extremes mentioned here.
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also sorry guys I'm pro GMO too.
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and as a side note HeySal: incorrect use of the word 'Cull' with - 'it is also continuing to cull marine life' - as that would meen they were selected to be killed instead of an unfortunate side effect. (sorry to be picky! XD ) - though I agree somewhat with the conclusion of your initial post.
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oh and Seasoned: Not sure about other countries but sewage in the UK is treated - in fact calcium oxide is added to change it to sludge which benefits some areas by releasing extra Nitrates and causing eutrophication (increasing plant growth) however in areas where this causes undesired hypernutrification the excess Nitrates are removed - google defra for more info if you want

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But yea eventually we will face problems caused by the greed of those in power.
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Thanks for interesting thread

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seasoned

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Murtag

There's quite a few hefty posts here and given most of them a read,
-

As a bit of an alternating view point from the majority mentioned here, I reckon we have at least a couple of decades left before things reach some of extremes mentioned here.
-

also sorry guys I'm pro GMO too.
-

and as a side note HeySal: incorrect use of the word 'Cull' with - 'it is also continuing to cull marine life' - as that would meen they were selected to be killed instead of an unfortunate side effect. (sorry to be picky! XD ) - though I agree somewhat with the conclusion of your initial post.
-

oh and Seasoned: Not sure about other countries but sewage in the UK is treated - in fact calcium oxide is added to change it to sludge which benefits some areas by releasing extra Nitrates and causing eutrophication (increasing plant growth) however in areas where this causes undesired hypernutrification the excess Nitrates are removed - google defra for more info if you want

-

But yea eventually we will face problems caused by the greed of those in power.
-
Thanks for interesting thread

A LOT of biological waste will help plants! of course, if it is improper, it will hurt the balance. Some stuff, for example, goes into the ocean and causes algae blooms! GREAT for plants! Of course, it WILL kill plants BELOW them because light is kicked out, and will kill animal life because of light, substance, and lack of oxygen. And Calcium oxide is NOT enough(though apparently they often don't even do THAT here). And setting off the PH balance can cause a lot of problems. HECK, look at the phosphate problem earlier! Plants LOVE phosphor and oxygen is ok too! You know the three number formula identifier on fertilizer? That middle number just HAPPENS to be PHOSPHATE!!!!!!! So WHY worry about phosphates? *****BALANCE*****! And SALT is fine! Some plants LOVE salt, sometimes! But WHY did germany pass a law AGAINST salting roads in the black forest? Because the BALANCE problems were killing the plants!

Steve

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HeySal

12 years ago

I don't agree with Kurt on some issues, but he's got his head screwed on pretty well when it comes to survival issues. What he is saying is why I laugh when people talk about running to the Mts if excrement hits the air conditioning. I know where he lives and lived in the same relative area - and even with modern conveniences those areas can be a test in some weather conditions. People up there know more about survival in altitude and the communities are pretty close knit, too. Any vestige of the class system disappears in an emergency and the townsfolk handle it together.

On the other hand - Mt dwellers who go to regions of desert will get a few shocks that they aren't prepared for, too. It's best to be able to stick to territories you're familiar with if at all possible.

As far as hunting and trapping --- if the emergency puts enough people out hunting, you aren't going to be eating meat at all for very long. It wouldn't take millions of foragers and hunters long to completely strip the environment. That is one of the dangers of over-population. Don't forget that.

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Sal
When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
Beyond the Path

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Murtag

12 years ago

Seasoned : I wasn't suggesting that sewage waste (treated or not) being dumped into the ocean was beneficial, simply stating that the UK was treating it with a quick example of how and an outcome of it

- of course overall sewage flowing into our sea is a negative due to the imbalance of abiotic variables.

As for the last bit about salting - plants do not love salt directly, some simply find the extreme salinity beneficial as they are better adapted (usually with ion pumps) to coping with it than competitors. (marram grass would be an example i think). The flora from black forest would not have adaptations for salinity so any aditional salt would cause them problems of course... The overall conclusion of balance is fair enough though

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