Big disagreement with contractor. Things are about to turn sour. What would you do?

11 replies
  • OFF TOPIC
  • |
I decided to accept a painting job, and it has turned into a bit of a headache.

The houses are still being completed. The contractor got me on board, and I have to paint EVERYTHING (including ceilings, hard-to-paint doors, door frames, closets, etc.)

The challenge is, he got several gallons of a crappy quality (yet 40$ a pop) paint this is supposed to be a flat + paint. I had to put three coats of this stuff to hide the gyproc underneath it. After two coats we could still read some of his writing on the gyproc. It was as if I was working with a diluted water paint.

Usually one good coat of flat will do the job. I basically painted the house three times instead of one. The other house only required one coat of a different flat he bought.

He's disappointed to say the least with my lack of progress. The way I see it, I lost two days. He also got some bad tools for painting. Not all bad quality (some of it is very good), but some dollar store crap that breaks and doesn't apply the paint well.

Bad tools = longer job and drop in quality. He finally got a high-quality trimmer after I told him that is was a pain to apply the paint with a brush that wasn't made for that.

I got the job done once and for all with that quality brush. But, I had to go over what I had done previously. Time wasted.

He said he got a quote from people he knows for $1600 for painting the TWO houses. He also said that they claimed they could do it in 4 days.

I've done 8 ten-hour days so far, with one house almost completed (6 hours left) and the other prepped for painting, and flat on the walls and ceiling.

In addition to the painting, I had to sand the walls, remove the dust with a swiffer, clean up the place with a broom and vacuum, clean up their mess, patch holes and cracks, help him bring stuff in (appliances, wood floors, etc.) etc.

The ceiling is one color, the bathroom another, and both rooms have three different colors.

I charge him $15 an hour, and he says it is too expensive for what he gets in return. Now keep in mind, I work HARD. I don't take brakes anymore, and sit down only long enough to eat my lunch. He's the first person who isn't happy with what I've done.

He keeps hinting at wanting to fire me if I don't step up and work harder. The way I see it, I am not responsible for selecting the bad quality paint. Nor buying the not-so-good tools. He wants to re-negotiate and pay me $1,600 for both places. Or lower my pay by 3 bucks.

This doesn't feel fair to me.

According to research I've done online, I charge cheaper than other painters, and take about as long as they do.

I made $1,200 so far. If it wasn't for the bad paint, I'd have $900 instead. Much more agreeable, wouldn't you think? If I'd had better tools, he'd have more money in his pocket.

Please tell me how you would handle this. And what would be the money and time investment to paint 2 one story, 720 square feet houses (two bedrooms and one bathroom)?

Thank you so much!

SEO
  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    WOW, I have a similar problem NOW! I was esentially lied to, and they are shocked that I couldn't sneak in who knows where, get documents THEY probably have, read all their minds, piece it together and do something I NEVER claimed to be able to do.

    A 1 week project has morphed into a 3 MONTH one.

    If you told him about the bad tools/paint, YOUR hands are clean! Explain to him that higher quality paint and tools could make YOU happier, save HIM a lot of money, and make the CUSTOMER happy.

    I had my home painted, it cost about $2000+ BTW, and it started to go bad in a few years.I have been here 12 years, and repainted the home THREE times! I tried to explain to the second painter somethig that any FIVE year old should be able to understand. I asked him to somehow cap the jambs on the garage on the floor. He actually made it WORSE! In a few months, it was starting to go. In a few years, the ENTIRE jamb had to be replaced. WHY? Because it wicked water inside, the paint peeled, and the weather beat down on it.

    Any way, he will probably NEVER understand! SOME seem to think hourly rate determines cost. It DOESN'T! It is rate times (work + repeat effort) +(waste+lack of job quality)+etc.... People have DIED because they saved a few bucks on a bolt.

    Steve
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7367263].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author yukon
    Banned
    I would tell him to hire the other guys. At the rate your going two houses at 80 hours each $1600 pay, will get you exactly $10 per hour while painting two houses. Assumes all houses are 720sq. ft.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7367377].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author lcombs
    Well, I was a sub-contractor many years ago.
    I did cement flat-work.
    I NEVER worked on a per hour basis.
    As a sub-contractor, you bid by the job.
    You buy the paint and your own tools.
    You figure in the cost of materials + time and do the job for flat fee.
    If you don't get the job, so be it.
    The contractors going get a lousy job and a bad reputation.
    You, on the other hand, will get other jobs and maintain a good reputation which will lead to more jobs.
    Get paid for the work you've done and tell the S.O.B to kiss your ass.
    (lie if you have to).
    Chalk this one up to experience and move on.

    Just a side note:
    My crew and I once emptied an office building.
    The company was "Crest Homes" in Blue Ash, Ohio
    They owed us about $10,000 and kept putting us off.
    Finally, on a rainy day when we weren't working, we went to the office, (after having had a few beers), and politely asked to speak with the person who wrote the checks.
    We were told he'd be with us in a minute.
    After about a half hour we started stopping people crossing the waiting area.
    We got "out-the-side-the-mouth" comments as they walked by.
    One of our guys, Nick, pulled his 6" blade knife out of it's sheath and was leaning against the rail, cleaning his finger nails.
    After about an hour more, Darrell, who could get pretty mean when crossed, grabbed a guy by the collar, threw him against the wall, and said, "Look! We're not leaving, and you're not leaving until we get our check!".
    We had the check in about 10 minutes; the ink still wet.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7367514].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Greg71
      Originally Posted by lcombs View Post

      Well, I was a sub-contractor many years ago.
      I did cement flat-work.
      I NEVER worked on a per hour basis.
      As a sub-contractor, you bid by the job.
      You buy the paint and your own tools.
      You figure in the cost of materials + time and do the job for flat fee.
      If you don't get the job, so be it.
      The contractors going get a lousy job and a bad reputation.
      You, on the other hand, will get other jobs and maintain a good reputation which will lead to more jobs.
      Get paid for the work you've done and tell the S.O.B to kiss your ass.
      (lie if you have to).
      Chalk this one up to experience and move on.
      Pretty much what I'm thinking.

      When I build someone a website, they need MY expertise. I don't let them go out and choose a cms platform, graphics software and so on, for me to do the job with.

      What if they come back to me with Joomla and Gimp, when I use Wordpress and Xara? It would take me a month to learn to use my new tools.

      You're the painter, you choose the paint, tools etc, and factor it into the quote, explaining how using quality will be better and save money in the long run.

      I recently had a new radiator put in my car which was $300 without labour. More expensive then the $150 alternative that had less cooling fins and would break within a year, but I know I've got something that works properly. Hurts more initially, but each day when I'm sitting in traffic, it's money I'm glad I spent.

      Sorry if I'm being too metaphorical, I'm sure you see the point.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7368400].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author esuresh
      Originally Posted by lcombs View Post

      Well, I was a sub-contractor many years ago.
      I did cement flat-work.
      I NEVER worked on a per hour basis.
      As a sub-contractor, you bid by the job.
      You buy the paint and your own tools.
      You figure in the cost of materials + time and do the job for flat fee.
      If you don't get the job, so be it.
      The contractors going get a lousy job and a bad reputation.
      You, on the other hand, will get other jobs and maintain a good reputation which will lead to more jobs.
      Get paid for the work you've done and tell the S.O.B to kiss your ass.
      (lie if you have to).
      Chalk this one up to experience and move on.

      Just a side note:
      My crew and I once emptied an office building.
      The company was "Crest Homes" in Blue Ash, Ohio
      They owed us about $10,000 and kept putting us off.
      Finally, on a rainy day when we weren't working, we went to the office, (after having had a few beers), and politely asked to speak with the person who wrote the checks.
      We were told he'd be with us in a minute.
      After about a half hour we started stopping people crossing the waiting area.
      We got "out-the-side-the-mouth" comments as they walked by.
      One of our guys, Nick, pulled his 6" blade knife out of it's sheath and was leaning against the rail, cleaning his finger nails.
      After about an hour more, Darrell, who could get pretty mean when crossed, grabbed a guy by the collar, threw him against the wall, and said, "Look! We're not leaving, and you're not leaving until we get our check!".
      We had the check in about 10 minutes; the ink still wet.

      Good one. We need to deal like this if not paid for the Job done. You did the right stuff.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7369406].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author travlinguy
    Why would you even consider staying?
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7367538].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    I would call his bluff and say "pay me what you owe so far and I will walk away".
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7368793].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Ernie Lo
    Quit and run. (you made $1200 so far right) It's not the end of the world, life will go on.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7368807].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author seobeginner
    Thanks for your input everyone! It means a lot.

    Things are looking good. He's happy now that I've explained a few things to him in a different way, and we're even developing a friendship.

    Have a great day!

    SEO
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7371577].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author SteveJohnson
    Using cheap flat paints as wallboard primer is a common mistake of the inexperienced or cheapskate. Cheap flats are heavy with silica as a filler, with very little actual polymer solids (the ingredient that makes good paints expensive). A decent PVA wallboard primer, sprayed on and backrolled, will save hours of work and keep homeowners from complaining about seeing the wallboard tape through the topcoat.

    When I sold my painting business in 2005, we were painting production up-scale tract housing (pretty much standard subdivision fare) at $1.80/sq ft, inside - single color walls, white woodwork and doors. I charged a flat $200 color change fee for each additional interior color, because of the time it took to clean spray equipment and the material loss. Different color ceilings were $0.80/sqft extra, and smooth walls (instead of textured wallboard) were $0.50/sqft extra. I supplied the materials, the builder just paid the bill and got a painted interior in return.

    Average time on an interior (based on 300 houses in 2004) was 31 man hours per 1000 sq. ft. of floor space, including final touchups and homeowner punchlists. Color changes like what you're describing would have run the time up another 6 hours or so.

    So we would have painted your 760sq ft house in about 28 man hours, start to finish, and charged the builder about $2950 per house including materials. I would have spent somewhere around $1000 on materials, and another $1000 in labor costs.

    P.S. Only a dumbass writes on wallboard. Only a super-sized dumbass writes on wallboard with a sharpie. Only a completely clueless brain-dead super-sized dumbass writes on wallboard with a ball point pen. Even pencil writing will show through on smooth walls unless it's primed with a stain-blocking primer like Killz.
    Signature

    The 2nd Amendment, 1789 - The Original Homeland Security.

    Gun control means never having to say, "I missed you."

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7372414].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author biggoogle
      I love your reply Steve - thanks a bunch and have a great day!

      SEO
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7380325].message }}

Trending Topics