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A huge dilemma - Credit Card issue.

by GGpaul
41 replies
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Hey all, so I was a "partner" for this construction company that was beyond stupid. It was the dumbest decision I made in my life to waste a year there (I never got paid!!!).

Anyways, the co-owner made me apply for a revolving credit card at Home Depot. They approved me of $500. (they asked for my social security) This would be for the company, so anyone in the company is allowed to use this credit card.

Now that I'm out of the company, should I close this account? Will it affect MY credit score? Let's just say worst case scenario they (my ex co-partners) don't pay for it as they said they will? Thanks
  • Profile picture of the author travlinguy
    Originally Posted by GGpaul View Post

    Hey all, so I was a "partner" for this construction company that was beyond stupid. It was the dumbest decision I made in my life to waste a year there (I never got paid!!!).

    Anyways, the co-owner made me apply for a revolving credit card at Home Depot. They approved me of $500. (they asked for my social security) This would be for the company, so anyone in the company is allowed to use this credit card.

    Now that I'm out of the company, should I close this account? Will it affect MY credit score? Let's just say worst case scenario they (my ex co-partners) don't pay for it as they said they will? Thanks
    Do you really have to ask this? Seems obvious to me.
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    • Profile picture of the author GGpaul
      Originally Posted by travlinguy View Post

      Do you really have to ask this? Seems obvious to me.
      Well I want to ask you because it's a revolving commercial account. I don't KNOW much about this. Like since it's under the companies name, even though I signed up under my name, will it affect my credit? That's why I have to ask.
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      • Profile picture of the author travlinguy
        Originally Posted by GGpaul View Post

        Well I want to ask you because it's a revolving commercial account. I don't KNOW much about this. Like since it's under the companies name, even though I signed up under my name, will it affect my credit? That's why I have to ask.
        If you have a bunch of people able to charge things in your name I personally think it wise to put a stop to that otherwise you might be in for some unpleasant surprises. Good luck.
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      • Profile picture of the author seasoned
        Originally Posted by GGpaul View Post

        Well I want to ask you because it's a revolving commercial account. I don't KNOW much about this. Like since it's under the companies name, even though I signed up under my name, will it affect my credit? That's why I have to ask.
        Computers don't work well with names. People make mistakes ALL THE TIME! So a THINKING person won't use your name to track credit, etc... They use the TIN! There is a SPECIAL one for a company called an EIN. YOU used the SSN, so it is YOU! YOUR records are tied to it. YOU opened the account. YOUR credit is tied to it.

        Steve
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        • Profile picture of the author Dan Riffle
          Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

          Computers don't work well with names. People make mistakes ALL THE TIME! So a THINKING person won't use your name to track credit, etc... They use the EIN! There is a SPECIAL one for a company called an EIN. YOU used the SSN, so it is YOU! YOUR records are tied to it. YOU opened the account. YOUR credit is tied to it.

          Steve
          Usually, commercial credit is applied for with the EIN with the owner providing their SSN as the guarantor, unless it's a sole prop. With a sole prop, the owner has the choice to use an EIN or SSN.

          My assumption, since he's referring to this as a "commercial" account, is he guaranteed it. Splitting hairs, really. Either way, he's on the hook.
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          • Profile picture of the author Kay King
            It's not unusual for a new small business to use a personally guaranteed credit card for supplies because the new business hasn't established a credit rating.

            However, this should have been part of the settlement when you left the partnership. Yes, you ARE responsible for making sure it is paid. Yes, it can affect your credit rating.

            You should call and immediately stop activity on the card to prevent more charges - but it won't be closed until it's paid. You didn't agree to allow former partners to continue to use this account, did you?
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  • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
    I would have closed it yesterday. You could ask Home Depot to remove you from the account, explaining that you no longer are associated with the company, but if they won't or can't do that, close the thing. You don't want to be responsible for their debt.
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post

      I would have closed it yesterday. You could ask Home Depot to remove you from the account, explaining that you no longer are associated with the company, but if they won't or can't do that, close the thing. You don't want to be responsible for their debt.
      YEAH, nobody would remove him. They ARE backed by a name. HIS in this case!

      Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author Dan Riffle
    I actually posted a lengthy answer earlier today when the forum was having database issues. My post never appeared.

    Here's the short answer: pull your credit to see if it's reporting. Commercial accounts rarely show on your credit report, but it depends on the bank. If it's not reporting, the only problem you should run into is if the account goes to collection. The collection account will show on your report and affect your score. If it is showing, pay the balance to $0 and close the account. Even if the debt isn't entirely yours, pay it off anyway. Don't let a $500 debt cost you many times more in increased interest rates.

    Let me edit this: when I say "the only problem," I'm referring to the account's affect on your score. That withstanding, close the account.

    And this isn't a "huge dilemma." It's $500. A huge dilemma is when you sign on a million dollar line of credit for your company and your "business partner," who didn't guaranty (for credit reasons), uses it to buy a yacht and skips out of town, leaving you the bill.
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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    Originally Posted by GGpaul View Post

    Hey all, so I was a "partner" for this construction company that was beyond stupid. It was the dumbest decision I made in my life to waste a year there (I never got paid!!!).

    Anyways, the co-owner made me apply for a revolving credit card at Home Depot. They approved me of $500. (they asked for my social security) This would be for the company, so anyone in the company is allowed to use this credit card.

    Now that I'm out of the company, should I close this account? Will it affect MY credit score? Let's just say worst case scenario they (my ex co-partners) don't pay for it as they said they will? Thanks
    OK, you created a SERIOUS problem for yourself!!!!!! You should NEVER NEVER NEVER do what you did! NEVER!

    First, IMMEDIATELY close the account, and pay it off! Make it clear that you have left and they do NOT have permission to use your details. Send a certified letter to the bank, to that effect. ALSO, ask the company to shred all paperwork, and the card, and send it back to you. Check back with the bank later to make sure no account has been opened. Better yet, subscribe to a credit tracking service, and check your credit for MONTHS!

    NOW, as to the mistakes you made......

    1. Obligating yourself PERSONALLY for a partnership!
    2. Using your OWN SSN on company credit, especially things like revolving lines. You should use an EIN!!!!!!!
    3. If it is a corporation, you pierced the corporate veil. If they get sued, the lawyer may track you down and involve YOU!

    Will it affect your credit score? Unless you are poor, have HORRIBLE credit, and they handled things well, closing the account can only HELP! $500 should be a drop in the bucket. A $500 line of credit COULD conceivably cost YOU BILLIONS EVEN if they and you had PERFECT credit! ALL that has to happen is someone getting BADLY injured and hiring a "good" attorney. That attorney could use that $500 credit line with YOUR SSN to pry open a channel to YOUR accounts, and you are a sitting duck! I hope you have good records about leaving the company.

    I am not a lawyer, but this is my understanding of US law.

    Steve
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    • Profile picture of the author Dan Riffle
      Originally Posted by seasoned View Post




      NOW, as to the mistakes you made......

      1. Obligating yourself PERSONALLY for a partnership!
      2. Using your OWN SSN on company credit, especially things like revolving lines. You should use an EIN!!!!!!!
      3. If it is a corporation, you pierced the corporate veil. If they get sued, the lawyer may track you down and involve YOU!

      Will it affect your credit score? Unless you are poor, have HORRIBLE credit, and they handled things well, closing the account can only HELP!
      Steve, the above isn't entirely true. Typically, Banks require the personal guaranty of small business owners, especially on revolving debt because it is unsecured. The company has to have some strength to it to get a revolving line without one. This company doesn't sound like it was every very strong.

      Regarding the credit score, the reverse of what you said is more likely. Someone with horrible credit would see a negligible drop in their score. However, for someone with good credit, the closing of the card *could* mess up their balance to limit ratio depending on their balances on their other cards. The drop in score would probably be greater than in the other scenario.
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      • Profile picture of the author seasoned
        Originally Posted by Dan Riffle View Post

        Steve, the above isn't entirely true. Typically, Banks require the personal guaranty of small business owners, especially on revolving debt because it is unsecured. The company has to have some strength to it to get a revolving line without one. This company doesn't sound like it was every very strong.

        Regarding the credit score, the reverse of what you said is more likely. Someone with horrible credit would see a negligible drop in their score. However, for someone with good credit, the closing of the card *could* mess up their balance to limit ratio depending on their balances on their other cards. The drop in score would probably be greater than in the other scenario.
        Well, a corporation should be guaranteed with the COMPANY! Do you think Apple, for example, was under job's or woz's SSN?

        And what I meant was that if the SSN owner had bad and low credit, and the card was handled well, dropping it would make his credit worse. If he had higher values elsewhere, and/or handled things better than they did, cancelling the account would only HELP.

        Steve
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        • Profile picture of the author Dan Riffle
          Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

          Well, a corporation should be guaranteed with the COMPANY! Do you think Apple, for example, was under job's or woz's SSN?

          And what I meant was that if the SSN owner had bad and low credit, and the card was handled well, dropping it would make his credit worse. If he had higher values elsewhere, and/or handled things better than they did, cancelling the account would only HELP.

          Steve
          The company doesn't guaranty (at least, insofar as the current discussion). They are the borrower. Owners guaranty on behalf of the company. And I would bet that at some point Jobs and Woz had to guaranty Apple's debt. A long, L O N G time ago.

          The debt is associated with the Borrower, under the borrower's EIN. Owners guaranty the debt personally and assume some form of responsibility for the debt. It could be full or limited, secured or unsecured, in terms of the owners' personal wealth.

          I'll agree to disagree on the affect on credit because there are too many unknown variables to fine tune what might actually happen.
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          • Profile picture of the author seasoned
            Originally Posted by Dan Riffle View Post

            The company doesn't guaranty (at least, insofar as the current discussion). They are the borrower. Owners guaranty on behalf of the company. And I would bet that at some point Jobs and Woz had to guaranty Apple's debt. A long, L O N G time ago.

            The debt is associated with the Borrower, under the borrower's EIN. Owners guaranty the debt personally and assume some form of responsibility for the debt. It could be full or limited, secured or unsecured, in terms of the owners' personal wealth.

            I'll agree to split hairs on the affect on credit because there are too many unknown variables to fine tune what might actually happen.
            As for the effect on credit, I made my decision considering te $500 line of credit. That is rather meager. If you have a rating indicating you can handle maybe $2000, $500 is a big deal. One would hope that a business owner would hae well over ten times that though, so $500 is a small portion.

            The percentage of value, length of time, and payment pattern are the biggest parts figuring into its effect.

            Steve
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            • Profile picture of the author Dan Riffle
              Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

              As for the effect on credit, I made my decision considering te $500 line of credit. That is rather meager. If you have a rating indicating you can handle maybe $2000, $500 is a big deal. One would hope that a business owner would hae well over ten times that though, so $500 is a small portion.

              The percentage of value, length of time, and payment pattern are the biggest parts figuring into its effect.

              Steve
              I pretty much agree with you here, especially the last sentence. You're spot on there.

              I'm just saying that if he already has bad or marginal credit, closing the account or getting slow pays wouldn't affect his score as much as someone with good credit closing the account and having it screw up their ratios. I've seen similar situations cause a 30-40 point drop and the customer did nothing wrong. They closed a card they rarely carried a balance on. Once closed, their balances to limits ratio tightened up and caused the drop.
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              • Profile picture of the author seasoned
                Originally Posted by Dan Riffle View Post

                I pretty much agree with you here, especially the last sentence. You're spot on there.

                I'm just saying that if he already has bad or marginal credit, closing the account or getting slow pays wouldn't affect his score as much as someone with good credit closing the account and having it screw up their ratios. I've see similar situations cause a 30-40 point drop and the customer did nothing wrong. They closed a card they rarely carried a balance on. Once closed, their balances to limits ratio tightened up and caused the drop.
                Yeah, if some variables change, the effect can TOO! if you have two cards with the same credit, payment pattern, etc.... closing one a few years older could HURT your credit while closing one that is newer may HELP! STUPID, I KNOW! But that is what bankers have told me. The theory is that closing the older somehow gives you less history. Closing EITHER gives you a better ability to pay, but the older one may have more of an adverse effect.

                Oh well, that is one thing I HATE about FICO. A person's worth and ability can't be determined simply by a formula. Someone somehow figured that complex meant more accurate, but it means nothing of the sort. By 9am today, I could pay off 1/5th of my current credit card debt. By about 12noon on wednesday, I could pay off ALL of the credit card debt, and still have money in the bank, etc... I could even pay off half of my mortgage. HECK, my score went up 20% this month simply because the accounts showed more of that reality. but they take NONE of that into account.

                Steve
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                • Profile picture of the author Dan Riffle
                  Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

                  Yeah, if some variables change, the effect can TOO! if you have two cards with the same credit, payment pattern, etc.... closing one a few years older could HURT your credit while closing one that is newer may HELP! STUPID, I KNOW! But that is what bankers have told me. The theory is that closing the older somehow gives you less history. Closing EITHER gives you a better ability to pay, but the older one may have more of an adverse effect.

                  Oh well, that is one thing I HATE about FICO. A person's worth and ability can't be determined simply by a formula. Someone somehow figured that complex meant more accurate, but it means nothing of the sort. By 9am today, I could pay off 1/5th of my current credit card debt. By about 12noon on wednesday, I could pay off ALL of the credit card debt, and still have money in the bank, etc... I could even pay off half of my mortgage. HECK, my score went up 20% this month simply because the accounts showed more of that reality. but they take NONE of that into account.

                  Steve
                  What the bankers have told you is fairly spot on. I'm a reformed banker, myself. I managed a small business credit underwriting division for a few years.
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  • Profile picture of the author GGpaul
    Wow. This just got crazy.
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    • Profile picture of the author Dan Riffle
      Originally Posted by GGpaul View Post

      Wow. This just got crazy.
      Naw, Steve and I are just arguing semantics. Nothing to see here.
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  • Profile picture of the author GGpaul
    I'll give Home Depot a call tomorrow. They're closed.
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  • Profile picture of the author SteveJohnson
    Don't take it lightly - it has the potential to screw you up. If you don't want to close the account, you need to make absolutely sure that you're the only one who can charge on it. Have them invalidate any cards other than your own.

    My dad ended up paying $4,000 for an airplane engine because the company he worked for went out of business, and he didn't read what he was signing when he picked the airplane up after the replacement was installed. In the early 70s, $4K was a lot of money...

    Understand that as the guarantor, they can - and WILL - come after you for payment.
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  • Profile picture of the author GGpaul
    So I spoke to the representatives at Home Depot, and I GOT OWNED so bad...

    The credit card was 72 days delinquent. The owner never made his payments. SO I HAD to put in $200 of my money to pay for it. They couldn't close the account because the owner had changed the address. I need to find a way to get the address, cause right now I'm in bad terms with the owner. Wow.
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  • Profile picture of the author Dan Riffle
    Wait. What?

    When you applied for this card, did the company apply and you signed as a guarantor? Did the other owner also sign as a guarantor?

    Why did the change of address deter them from closing the account at your request?
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    • Profile picture of the author yukon
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      Originally Posted by Dan Riffle View Post

      Wait. What?

      When you applied for this card, did the company apply and you signed as a guarantor? Did the other owner also sign as a guarantor?

      Why did the change of address deter them from closing the account at your request?
      That's what I'm thinking. Is the card/account in your name or not? Who's name is on the card/account?
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      • Profile picture of the author GGpaul
        Originally Posted by yukon View Post

        That's what I'm thinking. Is the card/account in your name or not? Who's name is on the card/account?

        The card account is under my name BUT two other guys (the other owners), is also on the account as well. Without me, this card would have not been approved.

        Damn, $200 there goes my Xmas shopping or $$ invested into internet marketing .
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  • Profile picture of the author yukon
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    As long as anyone else has access to that card, your screwed. Even If you keep paying the bill, they can keep making new purchases.

    You need to close that account ASAP (forget the credit score), otherwise they can buy whatever they want at your expense.

    Is it possible to have an online account for that card, If so change the address, pay off the account & close the account.
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    • Profile picture of the author GGpaul
      Originally Posted by yukon View Post

      As long as anyone else has access to that card, your screwed. Even If you keep paying the bill, they can keep making new purchases.

      You need to close that account ASAP (forget the credit score), otherwise they can buy whatever they want at your expense.

      Is it possible to have an online account for that card, If so change the address, pay off the account & close the account.

      They didn't close it but they blocked it. My duty now is getting the address. I've contacted the other owner who I'm close with to get me that address.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jack Gordon
    I am a former collection agency owner. I know a little something about credit and delinquency. I have a few thoughts.

    1) A $500 line of credit, while not insignificant, is destined to be not much more than a blip in your credit history. Take the long view, there is no reason to overinflate the importance of this one account in your lifetime credit history. Worst case scenario, it will be meaningless 7 years from the moment you pay it off and close the account.

    2) Having said that, you have every right to be pissed and, at least in the eyes of the world, get ready to go ballistic to get this remedied. Of course your partners screwed you - they had no risk. Letting them continue to use your card after you left the company was extraordinarily irresponsible. Bitter pill time: you only have yourself to blame for the situation you are in.

    My advice:

    First, pay it off. You are the only one who will suffer the consequences of this going further into default.

    Second, Home Depot is not a bank. They put their name on a bank's card. Make sure you are talking to the bank, as they will be able to give you the right information.

    Third, if they will not close it (the reason you got from Home Depot sounds bogus), then find out exactly what they need in order to get it closed.

    Fourth, communicate with your ex-partners. I know it will not be pleasant. Tell them what is going on, and what you need from them to make this happen. I would leave out the part about how much money they owe you. They are not going to pay it, and that will make getting whatever it is you do need that much harder.

    If you are unable to talk to them, then get yourself an attorney. This is what they do. Just be prepared to lose even more money on this deal.

    Sixth: Close that account.

    While all of this is going on, head to www.annualcreditreport.com and check all three of your credit reports (Experian, Equifax and Transunion). It is free, but plan to spend a couple of hours going through the process. It is likely this debt has been reported to the bureaus, and you may not have any recourse. You can try to dispute the charges, but they will easily be able to validate them and you will be no better off. It is worth trying though, as you have nothing to lose either.

    Good luck. Some day when you are successful, you will look back on this experience as a very cheap lesson in the ways of business.
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by rocket2uranus View Post

      I am a former collection agency owner. I know a little something about credit and delinquency. I have a few thoughts.

      1) A $500 line of credit, while not insignificant, is destined to be not much more than a blip in your credit history. Take the long view, there is no reason to overinflate the importance of this one account in your lifetime credit history. Worst case scenario, it will be meaningless 7 years from the moment you pay it off and close the account.
      I once ran into problems for $.05!!!!!!! YEP, one NICKLE! OK, OK, that was interest on a $20 "DEBT" that they should NOT have given me, but a nickle none the less. At the time, the checking account in that SAME bank had over $5000, and I had a few hundred thousand dollars worth of credit and was using only a fraction. so a small amount IS something to be concerned about.

      Some companies go neurotic over a minor blemish, and credit agencies are paid to notify them about such things. And their computers probably trigger the whole thing without concern of the amount.

      First, pay it off. You are the only one who will suffer the consequences of this going further into default.
      I agree here.

      Second, Home Depot is not a bank. They put their name on a bank's card. Make sure you are talking to the bank, as they will be able to give you the right information.
      HOPEFULLY the OP called the customer service number on the back of the card which SHOULD be the bank or their agent. They SHOULD be able to help you or direct you properly.

      Third, if they will not close it (the reason you got from Home Depot sounds bogus), then find out exactly what they need in order to get it closed.
      Send them certified letters. Hopefully that can be used later. They should be willing to close YOUR account on YOUR request if it is paid down. Of course, you CAN send them the letters, and tell your partners not to use the card, send them letters also, and dispute any new charges.

      As for lawyers, if you and your partner are rather rich, and the amount of damage exceeds maybe $10,000 , ask the partner to settle or you will both have to go to court. Charge him all the cash since you quit that hasn't been paid, and damages.

      If any of the above aren't true, ask the partner to pay or you will both go to small claims court. Charge him all the cash up to the limit of the court. That is usually in the low thousands, like $2000 or $5000.

      Charging on a card that you have no permission on without intending to pay IS credit fraud.

      Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author Jack Gordon
    Looks like I missed the last few posts while I was composing that one. It sounds like you are well on your way.

    Best of luck.
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  • Profile picture of the author GGpaul
    Yeah, I'm going through some trial and error. Not just internet marketing, but other businesses. At the same time, I'm glad that I'm going through this kind of shit NOW than later. Imagine when a lot of $$ is at stake and I make silly mistakes like this?
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  • Profile picture of the author GGpaul
    So I made a payment, I got the confirmation number but it didn't go through. Before I call Home Depot to make sure it pays, I should tell the owner how much he owns and that HE needs to pay this mess. What do you think?
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    • Profile picture of the author yukon
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      Originally Posted by GGpaul View Post

      So I made a payment, I got the confirmation number but it didn't go through. Before I call Home Depot to make sure it pays, I should tell the owner how much he owns and that HE needs to pay this mess. What do you think?

      As long as that card is maxed out ($500 limit) it's buying you time to change that billing address.

      How do you know the other guy/s won't keep using the card If the balance drops down to say $400 (example)?

      Personally, If it's a $500 max. credit, I would get the address changed, payoff the balance, close the account, & chalk it up as a lesson learnt.

      I got the impression you didn't think the other guy/s would pay anything on the balance.

      As long as that account is open with your name on it, your screwed for all of eternity, because anyone can keep maxing out the $500 balance, no matter how much you keep paying down the balance.
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      • Profile picture of the author GGpaul
        Originally Posted by yukon View Post

        As long as that card is maxed out ($500 limit) it's buying you time to change that billing address.

        How do you know the other guy/s won't keep using the card If the balance drops down to say $400 (example)?

        Personally, If it's a $500 max. credit, I would get the address changed, payoff the balance, close the account, & chalk it up as a lesson learnt.

        I got the impression you didn't think the other guy/s would pay anything on the balance.

        As long as that account is open with your name on it, your screwed for all of eternity, because anyone can keep maxing out the $500 balance, no matter how much you keep paying down the balance.
        The account is blocked. And will remain blocked but I do need the address.
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        • Profile picture of the author yukon
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          Originally Posted by GGpaul View Post

          The account is blocked. And will remain blocked but I do need the address.
          Your friend you mentioned above couldn't get the address?

          If you do change the address, might be a good idea to get a P.O. Box long enough to get the account closed. If you change the address back to the original address how do you know the other guy won't start the mess all over again? Just saying...
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  • Profile picture of the author GGpaul
    gotcha. I'll see what happens this week.
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    RIP Dad Oct 14 1954 - Mar 14 2015.

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  • Profile picture of the author yukon
    Banned
    A lawyer is going to cost a lot more than simply paying off the entire account yourself ($500 credit limit) & closing the account.

    I don't see how you could possibly win anything in court considering you willingly used your own SS# to get the card approved & knowingly accepted that other people besides yourself would be using the card.

    Either way your responsible for any money charged on the card until the account is closed (as long as the card is in your name).
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by yukon View Post

      A lawyer is going to cost a lot more than simply paying off the entire account yourself ($500 credit limit) & closing the account.

      I don't see how you could possibly win anything in court considering you willingly used your own SS# to get the card approved & knowingly accepted that other people besides yourself would be using the card.

      Either way your responsible for any money charged on the card until the account is closed (as long as the card is in your name).
      Small claims costs maybe 1/10th of $500. A $500 credit line could cost tens, or even hundreds of thousands, etc... just in credit, fees, overlimit charges/fees, lowered scores, etc... MOST credit fraud has the SSN and most of that was signed by the victim. Yet most trials rule in their favor. HECK, I had credit cards stolen. MY SSN, I opened the account, I didn't have to pay.

      Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author HKSEO Jonbones
    Your former partners should be responsible for getting their own lines of credit. If you are not making any money off of hanging your credit on the line, then why leave the account open?

    Doesn't seem like much of an issue to me, close the account, and let them fend for themselves, their business is no longer your responsibility.
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  • Profile picture of the author Auctiondebteliminator
    Close it.

    It would hurt your credit score more if they make charges that are unauthorized by you and don't pay it.

    Plus, if it hurts your credit score - who cares anyway?

    Our culture today has us believing that we "need" good credit scores.

    A credit score is only a measure of how much we love debt.

    Instead, get out of debt, save up for stuff, and pay cash for it. Never pay interest for anything and you'll be just fine .

    Close this and all credit card accounts you have and live a debt-free life!

    If you are to ask the wealthiest people advice on 'how to be wealthy' 95 percent would say 'get out of debt'.

    No one ever 'borrowed their way to prosperity'

    *take note congress
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    • Profile picture of the author Dan Riffle
      Originally Posted by Auctiondebteliminator View Post

      No one ever 'borrowed their way to prosperity'

      I agreed with you all the way to here. Nearly every business that went on to be prosperous (or nonprosperous, for that matter) started out with debt.
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      Raising a child is akin to knowing you're getting fired in 18 years and having to train your replacement without actively sabotaging them.

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