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For Ms. Terra And Dennis - Average Joe Lyrics- How An Average Joe Got Published

by John Durham
76 replies
  • OFF TOPIC
    • |
Ms. T, Dennis, or anyone else who is interested...,

Mind you that when these lyrics were written I was not a trained songwriter, so my later stuff is alot better. This was the song that landed my pub deal... They trained me for a few years after that.

Again, will upload some music soon.

Oh Yeah, BTW, yeah its personal. Back then I didnt know how to write except from personal experience. Now I can do it at will using strategies and techniques..."The Craft".

If you guys like it thats cool, but no need to make a big deal. I have enough haters already. I love you guys though, and it makes me happy that you would want me to share it. Thanks for the interest.

For anyone who wants to know what a song lyric looks like that can get somebody published...I guess this is one, because it was the one for me. Not my best, but I guess it was just good enough for the right listener at the right time. (That has alot to do with it).

I was actually playing in a band for an artist... That artist took me to his publishers one day and had me play him another song that the artist really liked...and the publisher wasnt very moved... but he asked me to play a couple more, and this one made him a stop and call his assistant and say "sign him". Who knows why, it just touched him. You cant take these things personal because the place where the publisher is at in his life has alot to do with how a song touches him/her...it doesnt necessarily mean its better than any other song.

Also, the place where an ARTIST is at personally is what makes them want to cut you or not...

Let me add a few notes, because I want this to help someone, while Im at it:

Melody.

When you go to write a song and you want to pitch it to an artist, think of the kinds of things that artist likes to do with their voice, because they like stuff that showcases their vocal talent...so you have to know what their vocals do best, and what it seems like they like singing...

To the Artists themselves, message and lyrics are important...but what matters most is how it feels to sing and how it showcases their voice. They have to sing it hundreds of times.

For instance, a bunch of bunched up consonants does not feel good to sing...its cumbersome, unless you are going for a punchy type alliteration and thats the clincher on that song...which, for instance; rappers do alot.

"Vocalists" like lots of long vowel sounds... especially for ballads, they showcase the singers vibrato...

I never did get a big major cut, but I did get to write for almost 7 years on a nice salary and got to meet alot of cool artists and producers in the pitching process, also got to do alot of demos with top studio musicians like 'The players" who you can look up on youtube... Also co wrote with a few really great ones like Charlie Craig, Brent Rowan, and a couple of the guys from "Bad Company".

My songwriting career ended mostly (partially), believe it or not, because I was on a partying binge with "Bad Company" (The Band), and got caught Red handed partying with the wrong kind of party favors.... I was young...stupid, trying to be cool, and on a path to destruction... This was almost seven years into my career.

Just want to get that out before anyone else does.

By the way, this is interesting... Right around the time I wrote this, I was watching CMT music awards, and I saw Brent Rowan Onstage, guitarist /producer of the stars...with the "Players".

My wife at the time, was watching with me, and we were not talking for some reason, and I was depressed with my life watching it... and I said "Someday Im going to play with those guys".

She said back to me "You are living in a pipe dream, those guys are so far away from Clarksville Arkansas. Yeah right. You need to face up to reality John, thats never going to happen".

You will see in coming months, that a few years later I ended up recording in the studio with them numerous times. Miracles CAN happen!

When you hear my recordings, and listen to the players you will KNOW its them... It's pretty high quality stuff, and they sound like...well...the players...

The reason I got to record with them is because Brent Rowan, who you can google, took interest in pitching my songs, or at least wanted publishing to a few of them on Rowest Records... So he picked through a stack of 70 my tunes and decided he would record me if I would let him add a line to a couple of them and share co-writers royalties.

We continued this relationship for a couple of years... Ultimately he had a few artists he was serious about cutting the songs with, but wanted more of a percentage than my publisher wanted to give him, so I guess he got offended with that... and took me to the side and said "I will work with you if you ever dump this publisher".

Later on he transformed into a major producer by discovering "Joe Nichols". Which is what he wanted to do with me, but he wanted not only writers royalties but also 100% publishing, and my publisher wouldnt give him 100%... He ended up publishing a couple of songs anyway, but never got them cut. Most publishers have thousands of songs in their report which they own for safe keeping but may never get cut.

Guys I know some think Im a braggert...dont mean to come off that way. But I cant let anyone stop me from being me, and sharing the way I share, who knows who this info might inspire.

If nothing else its interesting for some Im sure. For others its hate fodder. I cant give my focus to them though. I love my OT friends, and I will share myself in a genuine way. Sorry...

Anyway, here are the song lyrics that got me my deal Dennis and Terra. Will put up recording when I can.

Again, this is "pre-training" writing.

Average Joe - by John Durham

V1:

Workin in the lumber isnt much of a life
But he dont complain cuz its all he understands
He wouldnt trade the whole world for his daughter and his wife
But there's a dream that never died from way back when

He looks around at what he's made
And all those dreams of yesterday

And the only thing he really knows is
He's so tired of keeping up with the Joneses

(Chorus

You've got that

Two car garage and a family
A fulltime job at the factory
and you spend your nights just watchin TV at home

In the corner there's an old guitar
Oh, you used to dream about being a star
You should have known you'd never get that far
Average Joe

V11:

She never did see Joe as No ordinary guy
She would have been so proud just to wear his high school ring

He always dreamed he'd give her all of the finer things in life
but she didnt care if Joe ever had a thing.

She looks around at what they've made
The memories she'd never trade
And says Darlin "Everythings comin up roses
I think we're finally catchin up with the Joneses...."

(Bridge)

Average Joe , you know,
She's looking from, another side of life.
If you only knew all the things you truly own.
Oh the grass would look much greener
if you could see it through her eyes
She sees a deeper love, a gentle touch, and a man with a heart of gold.

(Back to Chorus)

You've got that
Two car garage and a family
a fulltime job at the factory
and you spend your nights just watchin TV at home

In the corner there's an old guitar
Oh , who really cares about bein a star
You should've known you'd never get that far
Average Joe

(Ending Tag)

Oh you're gonna hold your love tight
when you lay down tonight
so I guess its alright

Just bein an average Joe


End.


So thats what an average Joe getting published looks like.

Hope you guys dug this Saturday morning post. Sure was a nice trip down memory lane for me.

For those who thought it was arrogant or bragging...sorry. Im just sharing myself with my friends. Dont read it and mind your own business.

As for "proof": My friends dont need it...and if you do, you probably aint one, so I could care less.

-John

Ps. A couple of years ago, right before Charlie Craig died, he called me up twice and I missed his call (I was well into being an offline marketer by this time- it was ten years after we wrote them... I had totally forgotten about the dream- wel "almost")... He had a major artist that wanted to record my songs...days later he was in the hospital by the time I reached him...and months later he passed away.

Im thinkin though that the songs we co wrote could be worth something. he was a songwriting legend.








  • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
    Sigh. May not be your best but those are the kind of lyrics I've been looking for
    my whole life.

    Oh well, maybe in the next lifetime.
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    • Profile picture of the author John Durham
      Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

      Sigh. May not be your best but those are the kind of lyrics I've been looking for
      my whole life.

      Oh well, maybe in the next lifetime.
      We still have work to do Steven... I havent forgotten, and cant wait to get a chance to get around to it.

      Thanks.
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      • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
        Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

        We still have work to do Steven... I havent forgotten, and cant wait to get a chance to get around to it.

        Thanks.
        I didn't want to be a pest. I figured you were busy and had more pressing
        matters than writing songs. God knows there are serious problems we all have
        to deal with each day (I won't even begin to get into my own) without having
        to be bothered with stupid sh*t like writing songs.

        Before I die, I have just one wish. And it's not to be rich or become a Grammy
        Award winning songwriter or anything like that. I'd just love to walk into an FYE,
        pick up a CD, look at the back with the song listing, point to track 7 and say
        to my wife, "See that? I wrote that. Nobody will ever hear it except for whoever
        buys this obscure CD, but I wrote that."

        I've been living for that simple innocuous thing for over 30 years.

        Thank God I'm still young.
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  • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
    Oh John!

    That's beautiful! It brought tears to my eyes as it focuses on the true riches one has but so often overlooks and feels less of a person because of them, but the opposite is so true!!

    It also strikes a chord within me as it somewhat parallels myself in my younger years. I won't go into my specifics, but I was a budding actress back then along with acting experience and broadcasting experience under my belt. When my contract was over, I came back home to see my family and looked forward to signing another contract when I returned.

    But, while home, I met hubby to be. You may not believe this but it is true...when he first entered the room, all sound was muted to my ears and I heard a voice say that this was the man I would marry. Sounds corny, I know. :rolleyes:

    Anyway, I pursued him rather than my career and never returned to Texas. I have never looked back. My mom was killed in a car accident shortly after that and I don't think I could have handled being so far away when it happened. Hubby and I both never looked back and we both were in the ministry for thirteen years. We also had a radio show for a year and a half. We had three beautiful children one of which was a missionary in the Philippines for 3 years ministering to orphaned children in large overcrowded facilities and to people that actually lived in huge garbage dumps!

    Hubby was on a road to destruction via drugs and alcohol when I met him but made the decision to give that up rather than me. He often says I saved his life by coming into it. So many lives have been touched because of that decision to give up my acting career.

    I also now have 5 grandchildren who are amazing! These things are more precious than any dream or aspiration I ever had.

    Sorry I rambled.

    But I have to say Bless You John! That song is perfect and true!!

    Terra
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Originally Posted by MissTerraK View Post

      Oh John!

      That's beautiful! It brought tears to my eyes as it focuses on the true riches one has but so often overlooks and feels less of a person because of them, but the opposite is so true!!

      It also strikes a chord within me as it somewhat parallels my myself in my younger years. I won't go into my specifics, but I was a budding actress back then along with acting experience and broadcasting experience under my belt. When my contract was over, I came back home to see my family and looked forward to signing another contract when I returned.

      But, while home, I met hubby to be. You may not believe this but it is true...when he first entered the room, all sound was muted to my ears and I heard a voice say that this was the man I would marry. Sounds corny, I know. :rolleyes:

      Anyway, I pursued him rather than my career and never returned to Texas. I have never looked back. My mom was killed in a car accident shortly after that and I don't think I could have handled being so far away when it happened. Hubby and I both never looked back and we both were in the ministry for thirteen years. We also had a radio show for a year and a half. We had three beautiful children one of which was a missionary in the Philippines for 3 years ministering to orphaned children in large overcrowded facilities and to people that actually lived in huge garbage dumps!

      Hubby was on a road to destruction via drugs and alcohol when I met him but made the decision to give that up rather than me. He often says I saved his life by coming into it. So many lives have been touched because of that decision to give up my acting career.

      I also now have 5 grandchildren who are amazing! These things are more precious than any dream or aspiration I ever had.

      Sorry I rambled.

      But I have to say Bless You John! That song is perfect and true!!

      Terra
      What an amazing story. I guess in a way, I did the same thing. No, I never
      really had a chance at the big time, but having a mother with tons of
      connections in the entertainment business in general, if I begged her enough
      to push for me, I might have gotten a break. Who knows? But I met my wife,
      knew from the minute I saw her that I'd marry her, and really gave up all
      those dreams for her. I pursued a regular job and career and while that
      actually didn't work out too well, it lead me to Internet marketing and to you
      and all the wonderful people here like John, Sal, Kim, Kurt, and so many others
      who I now consider friends, that I wouldn't have done it any other way.

      In short, I don't regret one decision that I've made in my life.

      How many people can say that?
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    Ironically, Ms. Terra. the bridge... reminds me alot of you and the love I sense between you and your husband. I mean that I have thought that before. He seems like your hero, and thats so awesome. I know he probably feels the same knowing what we see of you here.

    Im almost afraid to take compliments honestly, because it causes people to hate. But I do appreciate that you enjoyed it. It's not a big deal, its just me sharing my experience. It hasnt all been good, but some of it has been a dream come true. Im thankful for that.

    Who knows that number one hit may come just yet.

    Ps. I feel you on the grandchildren...there's no amount of success that is more rewarding than Grandchildren.
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    • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
      Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

      Ironically, Ms. Terra. the bridge... reminds me alot of you and the love I sense between you and your husband. I mean that I have thought that before. He seems like your hero, and thats so awesome. I know he probably feels the same knowing what we see of you here.

      Im almost afraid to take compliments honestly, because it causes people to hate. But I do appreciate that you enjoyed it. It's not a big deal, its just me sharing my experience. It hasnt all been good, but some of it has been a dream come true. Im thankful for that.

      Who knows that number one hit may come just yet.

      Ps. I feel you on the grandchildren...there's no amount of success that is more rewarding than Grandchildren.
      John,

      Thank you for those kind words!

      It's funny, but although we haven't met, I feel as though we are friends, kindred spirits even.

      I want to share two things with you that I hope will help you regarding those haters. I once felt as you do, but after many years of living, I came to this conclusion. "I am who I am, approval not needed! You don't like me? That's your problem...deal with it!"

      The second is a quote I came upon a few years back and adopted it as one of my favorites.

      "There comes a time in life when you have to let go of all the pointless drama in your life and the people that create it, and surround yourself with people who make you laugh so hard that you forget the bad and focus solely on the good! After all, life is too short to be anything but happy!"

      It is my sincerest hope that these may help you as they have me. Be yourself, you are a wonderful person in my book!

      I'm pulling for you whatever your desires are!

      Terra
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    Lol!

    Steven Wagenhiem Of The Warrior Forum a pest?

    Man as far as Im concerned you are a rock star. Even being regarded at all by you is like being regarded by the Brent Rowan of the Warrior forum!

    If you were looking at yourself from "our" side of life as average Warriors, the grass would look much greener.
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

      Lol!

      Steven Wagenhiem Of The Warrior Forum a pest?

      Man as far as Im concerned you are a rock star. Even being regarded at all by you is like being regarded by the Brent Rowan of the Warrior forum!

      If you were looking at yourself from "our" side of life as average Warriors, the grass would look much greener.
      Thanks John, but in all seriousness, I've never been a pushy person. Maybe
      that's why I haven't been more successful. I'll ask somebody to do something
      for me once and that's it. If things work out, great. If not, I go on. I have to.
      When my dad walked out on me and my mom a day before my 5th birthday, I
      realized then that I couldn't depend on other people for my success and
      happiness in life. And while I love my wife and kid more than anything, they
      are also not responsible for my happiness and success.

      Conversely, if I can, I'll give somebody the shirt off my back. I think growing
      up with close to nothing turned me into what I am. It's why I'm active in
      my church, it's why I've dug out my wallet for friends out of thin air and
      bought them that cool thing that they've wanted for like forever but couldn't
      afford it. Yeah, I do wacky sh*t like that.

      And in a way, I'm repaid. The guys I play Magic with treat me like their
      grandfather. One day, a bunch of them got together and gave me a whole
      bunch of cards that I didn't have but was looking for. The only thing that
      kept me from crying was not wanting to look like a wuss in front of a bunch
      or 18 year olds.

      I have no idea where my life is going to take me. I'd like to think that if I
      just be the best person that I can to others that maybe someday my own
      dreams will come true. But if not, that's okay too. See, the wonderful thing
      about the way I look at life (never expecting anything good to happen) is
      that when something really good DOES happen, the feeling is like nothing
      else in the world and one that I think few people really experience.

      And then, finally, there is something else. People don't have things happen
      to them just because they're good people. Sometimes good things happen
      to people even if they're not so good. An artist who makes it in the
      entertainment business doesn't make it because he's a good person. He makes
      it because he's talented. He may be the most lousy, rotten, son of a bitch
      that ever lived. It doesn't matter. If he can sing like Gary Puckett and looks
      like Sean Connery and can act like Gregory Peck, he's going to make it.

      Watch Glee. Those kids are amazingly talented. For all I know, the girl who
      plays Rachel can be the biggest bitch in heels. The kid who plays Artie in
      the wheelchair can be a total jackass. I mean we all know what a whack
      job Joan Crawford was.

      I'm not going to win any awards because I'm kind to my fellow man. I'm going
      to win them because of my talent or not win them because of my lack of
      talent.

      That's the way it is and that's the way it should be.

      Musically, I think I can (if I really work hard at it) write something that
      people will want to listen to. Lyrically, that's another thing entirely. I think
      I've learned after 30 years that I just don't have the knack for writing the
      kind of lyrics that the music biz is looking for. I know what they're looking
      for. I understand it intellectually, but I don't have the talent to carefully
      craft a "commercial" lyric. The closest I've come (according to the "experts")
      is one song about a kid who's sick of being called a nerd (I guess that was
      auto biographical in a way) and another song about a new kind of super hero.
      Other than that, my lyrics have essentially been torn to shreds.

      And of course it really doesn't help that I can't sing or record for sh*t when
      I even submit something because most people probably can't even get past
      the lousy voice and recording quality to even "listen" to the song.

      And ultimately, all the rejection (35 years is a LONG time) has taken me to
      the point where my own confidence in my writing ability is about as low as
      John Robinson's in expecting Dr. Smith to get them out of a jam with his vastly
      superior intellect.

      This April, I made my first CD in 2 years. It will probably be another 2 years,
      if that, before I do another one. Honestly, the fire is dying out. There's only
      so long you can go on doing something (35 years is a LONG time...see above)
      before you get to a point where you just say f**k it.

      This year, our church choir performed a song that I wrote.

      That's my consolation prize I guess. And don't get me wrong, it was one of
      the coolest days of my life. But the feeling didn't last longer than the day
      itself.

      At age 20, I wrote my first song because a girl broke my heart.

      At age 55, I may have written my last song because I just have no heart
      left for this business.

      Hey, 35 years is a LONG time.
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  • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
    Enjoyed the lyrics, John, and look forward to hearing the song/your songs. Appreciate the honesty in the OP too -- nothing like being put on the spot, eh?

    The lyrics reminded me of a song I wrote back in the 70's called Joe Corporation (what is it with everyone picking on Joe?), only in my song Joe doesn't realize what's important until it's too late.

    Good stuff, John! Thanks for posting it.
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    Just when you think you've got it all figured out, someone changes the rules.

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    • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
      Hey Steve,

      Don't give up your first love, that of music. Music is a gift to people and a God given talent and if it makes you happy, do it!

      I have found other ways in my life for performing, and utilizing my God given talent. It may not be my first aspiration, but I find ways to utilize it where it helps other people too rather than just myself. Chin up my friend!

      Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

      Ironically, Ms. Terra. the bridge... reminds me alot of you and the love I sense between you and your husband. I mean that I have thought that before. He seems like your hero, and thats so awesome. I know he probably feels the same knowing what we see of you here.
      I didn't address this before because I was fighting tears thinking about it, but I have myself together now, so here goes...

      Yes, I do think of hubby as my hero for he saved my life too.

      After the car accident that took my mom's life, I went into a deep dark bout of mourning and depression. I went three whole weeks without eating, I just couldn't do it. It was like my whole world was rocked and had lost meaning for me. For those three weeks, I lived on coffee and cigarettes and that is it. I dropped 28 pounds in those three weeks and grew very weak. I was literally skeletal. My dad and the rest of my family were very concerned and tried to get through to me but couldn't. I was living in a dazed fog and couldn't think for myself. It was hubby and his mom that directed me where to go, and when, etc.

      Then one day hubby took me by the hands and looked straight into my eyes. He said let me ask you a question. Do you think your mom is smiling down on you from heaven thinking that's right, Terra, go ahead and starve yourself and die of a broken heart where I can have you with me as I miss you dearly.

      Or do you think she has a look of concern hoping you'll come out of this and thinking I want you to live so that a part of me can live through you. I want you to marry Bill and have children so that a part of me can keep living through them as well.

      At that moment, I felt like my mom had actually said that. I had goosebumps running all up and down my whole body. At that moment, something snapped inside of me and I knew what I had to do and I did it.

      I'm really not sure if I would have gotten my health or will to live back if it had not been for his words, so yes, he is my hero too.

      Terra
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      • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
        Originally Posted by MissTerraK View Post

        Hey Steve,

        Don't give up your first love, that of music. Music is a gift to people and a God given talent and if it makes you happy, do it!

        I have found other ways in my life for performing, and utilizing my God given talent. It may not be my first aspiration, but I find ways to utilize it where it helps other people too rather than just myself. Chin up my friend!

        Terra
        Thanks Terra. Honestly, a lot of the spark is gone. I used to write constantly.
        Between 2003 and 2008, I didn't write at all. After a 2 year "burn out" I didn't
        write anything again until 2012. And the way I feel now, I don't see myself
        writing anything again for a very long time, if ever.

        It's kind of like a bad relationship, of which I had many before I met my wife.
        Eventually, you just get tired of it and give up on it. I mean there is only so
        much one person can take.

        And the truth is, if I really loved music for music's sake, none of this would
        matter. I'd be writing forever. But obviously I was looking for some recognition
        from my music that I never got and eventually reached the point where I
        was tired of looking for that recognition.

        I strongly believe that the things you REALLY love, you never stop doing. So
        if music really is a "love' and not just a means to an ends (acknowledgement)
        then I will write again.

        And if not, nothing is really lost, is it?
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        • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
          Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

          Thanks Terra. Honestly, a lot of the spark is gone. I used to write constantly.
          Between 2003 and 2008, I didn't write at all. After a 2 year "burn out" I didn't
          write anything again until 2012. And the way I feel now, I don't see myself
          writing anything again for a very long time, if ever.

          It's kind of like a bad relationship, of which I had many before I met my wife.
          Eventually, you just get tired of it and give up on it. I mean there is only so
          much one person can take.

          And the truth is, if I really loved music for music's sake, none of this would
          matter. I'd be writing forever. But obviously I was looking for some recognition
          from my music that I never got and eventually reached the point where I
          was tired of looking for that recognition.

          I strongly believe that the things you REALLY love, you never stop doing. So
          if music really is a "love' and not just a means to an ends (acknowledgement)
          then I will write again.

          And if not, nothing is really lost, is it?
          No, I guess not.

          BUT, I still want to see you happy. I like you just fine either way, but I like you better when you're happy.

          Terra
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          • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
            Originally Posted by MissTerraK View Post

            No, I guess not.

            BUT, I still want to see you happy. I like you just fine either way, but I like you better when you're happy.

            Terra
            Happiness comes from within. Something else I've learned over the years.

            I'm happy because my wife is happy and my daughter is happy. When they're
            not, I'm not and it doesn't matter what I have or don't have in my life.

            The older I get, the more I realize what's really important.

            The day my daughter gets married will be the happiest day of my life. Her
            boyfriend is a real keeper. She's so lucky to have him.

            That's the stuff that keeps me going and keeps a smile on my face.

            A teenage dream doesn't quite cut the muster.
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    • Profile picture of the author John Durham
      Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post


      The lyrics reminded me of a song I wrote back in the 70's called Joe Corporation
      You know what you gotta do now Dennis... We're anxious to check out the story behind such an interesting hook now!

      I will swap you another one if you do it! I read one of your lyrics once and loved it!

      @ Ms. Terra, your story about your mom and husband is a hit song waiting to be written.
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      • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
        Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

        You know what you gotta do now Dennis... We're anxious to check out the story behind such an interesting hook now!

        I will swap you another one if you do it! I read one of your lyrics once and loved it!
        Uh, no, I don't think so. My lyrics aren't as good as yours. Besides, I only remember fragments of it. I've entered different lyrics into my computer when I run across them, but that one isn't there so I don't know if they're gone or I just haven't found the paper they were written on since we moved. Sorry. My old lyrics aren't very well organized. Just written on single sheets of paper scattered around here and there.
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        Just when you think you've got it all figured out, someone changes the rules.

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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    @ Ms. Terra, your story about your mom and husband is a hit song waiting to be written.

    "I live on in you, every sparkle in your eye, every joyous tear you cry , when you see your baby smile... I live on in you, in every breath you keep on takin, every memory you keep makin, honey dont you be mistaken, Im not gone, yeah I live on......In you"

    That just came to me. Damn, your hubby is Good. Where was he when I needed him in the nineties!
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    • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
      Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

      @ Ms. Terra, your story about your mom and husband is a hit song waiting to be written.

      "I live on in you, every sparkle in your eye, every joyous tear you ever cry , when you see your baby smile... I live on in you, in every breath you keep on takin, every memory you keep makin, honey dont you be mistaken, Im not gone, yeah I live on......In you"

      That just came to me. Damn, your hubby is Good. Where was he when I needed him in the nineties!

      Gosh Durn it, John!

      You got me to crying again! That was beautiful and touching and well, I thank you from the bottom of my heart!!

      I luv ya for it ya big ole teddy bear! :p

      Oh, well back in the nineties he was over here with me!

      Terra
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      • Profile picture of the author John Durham
        Originally Posted by MissTerraK View Post

        Gosh Durn it, John!

        You got me to crying again! That was beautiful and touching and well, I thank you from the bottom of my heart!!

        I luv ya for it ya big ole teddy bear! :p

        Oh, well back in the nineties he was over here with me!

        Terra
        This is a great story...I may try to write it. If so I will post an accoustic recording. Kinda scared to ruin it though, its such a beautiful concept. Really deserves the best verses. If you could hear the melody in my head its really beautful.

        Dang its so beautiful that Im gunshy about touching it.

        @ Dennis

        Understandable...I have lost more lyrics than I remember. it happens to all song writers I guess.

        Holy crap...I have to go grab a guitar.
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        • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
          @ Dennis

          Aww come on, can't you just toss out a lowly beggar a lil morsel? Pretty please??

          @ John

          Go for it my friend, I wanna hear it! In doing it, my mom would have yet another avenue in which to live on and I would be eternally grateful.

          Terra
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          • Profile picture of the author John Durham
            Originally Posted by MissTerraK View Post

            @ Dennis

            Aww come on, can't you just toss out a lowly beggar a lil morsel? Pretty please??

            @ John

            Go for it my friend, I wanna hear it! In doing it, my mom would have yet another avenue in which to live on and I would be eternally grateful.

            Terra
            If I am blessed enough to complete it and do it justice... then I will be the one eternally grateful to all three of you... Sitting at piano now, frustrated that I cant get the recording mic on the computer to work.

            Ps. The meaning here and what you feel about your mom, and helping people have an outlet for that is what music is all about.

            Edit: Only problem is Im scared to touch the verses, its too beautiful a thought to mess up.
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      • Profile picture of the author peter_act
        Originally Posted by MissTerraK View Post


        You got me to crying again!

        Terra
        Come on guys, Steven, John and Dennis.

        That's got to become a country song doesn't it?
        (Sung by Crystal Gayle, of course!)

        I'll start on the lyrics tomorrow!


        P.S. I did post this earlier, but it seems to have disappeared. If a duplicate turns up, many apologies
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        • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
          Originally Posted by peter_act View Post

          Come on guys, Steven, John and Dennis.

          That's got to become a country song doesn't it?
          (Sung by Crystal Gayle, of course!)

          I'll start on the lyrics tomorrow!


          P.S. I did post this earlier, but it seems to have disappeared. If a duplicate turns up, many apologies
          I'm not sure if you noticed or not, but John has been banned. I don't know why or need to for that matter, but I'm pretty sure the song died at that point.

          If you are serious about writing the lyrics, I would be honored.

          Terra
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          • Profile picture of the author peter_act
            OK, here they are - woke up this morning and the words were there!

            You got me to cryin' again!

            Finally got my life on track,
            Turned around, no going back,
            On the straight and true
            Well and truly over you.

            Got it all to make some sense,
            Got the house and picket fence,
            You came back and then,
            You got me on to cryin' again.

            [Bridge]

            My peaceful existence, where did it go?
            Just an illusion, this I now know.
            Take away this everyday mask
            Just say you love me, not too much to ask.

            [Verse]

            Thought I was strong, and unafraid,
            Life was sweet, I had it made,
            But you came back and then,
            Here I am just cryin' again

            [Bridge]

            Said goodbye to romance, thought I was cool.
            No foolish attachments, nobody's fool,
            No-one could hurt me, thought I was strong,
            Safe in my bubble, till you came along.

            [Verse]

            Give me some pity; I know I'm weak,
            Go to pieces each time you speak,
            I try not to wilt, but then,
            You get me on to cryin' again.

            The working melody I used to make the words scan was "Don't it make my brown eyes blue". (I love Crystal Gayle!)
            As soon as I read that line in your post and thought it would be a good title for a country song, Crystal's voice came into my head.

            I should point out that I have never written a country song before, so if the lyrics are no good, that's why!

            Now I just need the melody from Steven!

            P.S. I only found this thread because I was searching for a long forgotten thread by John, but it's amazing - I only ever read everything written by 5 or 6 people in this forum, and three of them are Steven, John and Dennis, and here thay all are in the one thread.
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            • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
              Originally Posted by peter_act View Post

              OK, here they are - woke up this morning and the words were there!

              You got me to cryin' again!

              Finally got my life on track,
              Turned around, no going back,
              On the straight and true
              Well and truly over you.

              Got it all to make some sense,
              Got the house and picket fence,
              You came back and then,
              You got me on to cryin' again.

              [Bridge]

              My peaceful existence, where did it go?
              Just an illusion, this I now know.
              Take away this everyday mask
              Just say you love me, not too much to ask.

              [Verse]

              Thought I was strong, and unafraid,
              Life was sweet, I had it made,
              But you came back and then,
              Here I am just cryin' again

              [Bridge]

              Said goodbye to romance, thought I was cool.
              No foolish attachments, nobody's fool,
              No-one could hurt me, thought I was strong,
              Safe in my bubble, till you came along.

              [Verse]

              Give me some pity; I know I'm weak,
              Go to pieces each time you speak,
              I try not to wilt, but then,
              You get me on to cryin' again.

              The working melody I used to make the words scan was "Don't it make my brown eyes blue". (I love Crystal Gayle!)
              As soon as I read that line in your post and thought it would be a good title for a country song, Crystal's voice came into my head.

              I should point out that I have never written a country song before, so if the lyrics are no good, that's why!

              Now I just need the melody from Steven!

              P.S. I only found this thread because I was searching for a long forgotten thread by John, but it's amazing - I only ever read everything written by 5 or 6 people in this forum, and three of them are Steven, John and Dennis, and here thay all are in the one thread.
              For what it's worth,

              I think it'd make a brilliant country song and don't think it stinks at all.

              Isn't it amazing how when we have something on our mind, we go to sleep and while sleeping, our brains work it out? It never ceases to amaze me!

              Well, it is very nice to make your acquaintance even though I'm not John, Dennis, or Steve.

              Terra
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              • Profile picture of the author Horny Devil
                Banned
                Nice lyrics. You've obviously got a talent.

                PS - Terra could do a voice over bit for the chorus following, You get me on to cryin’ again. You know, something like . . Wotchu say boy, wotchu say.
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    Sorry guys for keeping on posting, but after singing it out... A couple of words slightly change to make it flow...very slightly...it feels better...Gosh darn it, wish I could record this now.

    anyway... "I live on in you...in every sparkle in your eyes, in every tear you ever cry, when you see your babies (plural) smile- I live on in you, in every breath you keep on takin, every memory you keep makin, honey dont you be mistaken Im not gone, Yeah I live on...In you".
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    • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
      Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

      Sorry guys for keeping on posting, but after singing it out... A couple of words slightly change to make it flow...very slightly...it feels better...Gosh darn it, wish I could record this now.

      anyway... "I live on in you...in every sparkle in your eyes, in every tear you ever cry, when you see your babies (plural) smile- I live on in you, in every breath you keep on takin, every memory you keep makin, honey dont you be mistaken Im not gone, Yeah I live on...In you".


      I wish I could thank you again, but I have apparently used up my quota for today.

      But I do thank you.

      I'm excited again over John's music!

      Terra
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      • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
        Originally Posted by MissTerraK View Post



        I wish I could thank you again, but I have apparently used up my quota for today.

        Terra
        I gave him one for ya!

        That verse is lookin' great, John.

        Originally Posted by MissTerraK View Post

        @ Dennis

        Aww come on, can't you just toss out a lowly beggar a lil morsel? Pretty please??
        I really don't where the lyrics are, or if I even still have them. I'll see if I can find them, or remember them, but it will be like eating porridge after a 5 course meal.
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        • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
          Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post

          I gave him one for ya!

          That verse is lookin' great, John.



          I really don't where the lyrics are, or if I even still have them. I'll see if I can find them, or remember them, but it will be like eating porridge after a 5 course meal.
          Thank you Dennis!

          I wish I had one for you too, a thank you, that is.

          Terra
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          • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
            Well shoot, Sal!

            I looked and my thank you button was back. I thanked John and then went to thank you and Drats! The button was gone again.

            But I thank you! And I'm right there pulling for all of your desires to come to fruition too!

            That's what girlfriends are for.

            Oh and Steve needs one too.

            Terra
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

      Sorry guys for keeping on posting, but after singing it out... A couple of words slightly change to make it flow...very slightly...it feels better...Gosh darn it, wish I could record this now.

      anyway... "I live on in you...in every sparkle in your eyes, in every tear you ever cry, when you see your babies (plural) smile- I live on in you, in every breath you keep on takin, every memory you keep makin, honey dont you be mistaken Im not gone, Yeah I live on...In you".
      See, now I could write something to stuff like that, that doesn't sound like crap.

      Folks, that's a lyricist that KNOWS how to write lyrics that composers can write
      music to.

      John, I just need one chance. Write me something that good and I'll send
      you the damn best song you ever feasted your ears on.

      How's THAT for modesty?

      Seriously, my one friend writes lyrics but most of them are so nonrhythmic
      that I end up pulling my hair out of my head before I'm done. One of the few
      exceptions was when I wrote "Puppet On A String."

      Not to hijack the thread, but my friend wrote the lyrics to this. They ain't
      great but at least they flowed.

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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    Ms. T, thats awesome to hear, it makes me happy that you are happy...your husband has a beautiful mind...I thank you also because I havent been excited about writing in awhile...but I am sincerely feeling paranoid because if I do anything good it gets twisted to look like Im doing something ugly... I know thats not you. I apologize for that.

    Its the chorus Dennis, but man, the verses are another thing entirely. I will have to read her story a few more times.
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    Ms. Terra, could we please hear more about your mom? What kinds of things did she teach you, what kind of things would she have been proud to see... what kind of things do you wish you could share with her, in what kind of moments are you reminded of her?
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    [DELETED]
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    • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
      Oh my goodness! My mom was larger than life with a wonderful sense of humor. She always put us first before herself and made life so magical for us. She told us our toys came alive at night and played and told us if we were quiet enough in the morning, we might catch them, lol! One time she even took one of her Cupie dolls and dipped its feet in mud and left muddie footprints for us to discover when we woke up, lol!

      She did this despite having been taunted and ridiculed as a child. You see she was half Cherokee Indian and half Czechoslovakian. She grew up being spat at and called half breed. None of that ever hindered her from being a kind caring and tenderhearted person. She loved life so much. Life was sacred. When my parents bought their first home and Dad had planted a tree in the front yard, although she took care of it with loving care every day, it didn't make it. My dad came home from work and found her in her bed bawling, and sobbing that she had killed it. Bless her heart!

      She encouraged all three of us, her children, in what our desires and likes were. She read to us, taught us to read before we started school and called her friends over to watch us put on puppet shows and plays we had put together and listen to stories we had written.

      She loved music and sang all of the time even though she couldn't carry a tune for nothing! Funny thing was is that it didn't matter because her joy and heart always poured forth when she "tried" to sing. She used to go out in the cold and snow and build snowmen with us, snow forts, and even have snowball fights with us. She sledded with us too. In the summer she took us to the beach and amusements parks. She always let us have sleepovers with our friends in a tent in the backyard in the summers and in the huge family room in the winters.

      She volunteered for chaperoning with school trips and was a Brownie Leader.

      When we had to walk and grew tired of walking whether we were at a mall or where ever, she would make the walking a game by saying walk, walk, walk walk, skip, skip, skip, skip, run, run, run, run, run as she did those very things and encouraged us to do them too with her.

      As we grew older she became the most popular mom in the hood. She would dance with our friends in the living room and slaughter the lyrics to new songs, lol! She'd even laugh harder at herself than we all did.

      Everyone loved her. She just had a way with understanding needs and situations. When we started dating and got our little hearts broken, she would just hug and rock us and cry with us rather than saying a word. That action was more healing than any words could have ever been.

      Her three most favorite songs of all time were The Piano Man, Only the Good Die Young and Cats in The Cradle.

      She loved Led Zepplin, Cat Stevens, Billy Joel, Elvis, Nancy Sinatra, the Doors, Ted Nugent, Bob Seger, Rod Stewart, The Carpenters, etc. Her music tastes were very eclectic and I guess that's where I get it from, lol!

      The music/songs she loved most were those that told an emotional story.

      Oh, and she loved hubby to be, even though he only got to know her for less than a year.

      Geez, I miss her! My children always say the feel like they know her just from all of the stories I've shared with them.

      One of my favorite memories of her is when I was shopping with her as a teenager in a department store. When we were in line for the register, a cute little blond haired, blue eyed boy was in the cart in front of us. Mom smiled at him and the little rascal made a dirty face and stuck out his tongue at her.

      What did Mom do? She lowered herself to his level, got right in his face and returned the favor! I was horrified! I told her I couldn't believe she did that and she had embarrassed me. She apologized then explained to me that little kids sticking out their tongue at you was the equivalent of saying "F" You! And no one was going to say that to her without getting one right back! LOL!

      Only my mom...

      As you can see she was just wonderful.

      I wish she could have been at my wedding and at the birth of my children. I wish she could have known my children and see what legacy she created as I try to be a mom just like her. I know she would have been proud no matter what I did in life, she was just that way.

      Terra
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    Steven if you will PM me an address... When I get the lyrics going in the right direction I will send you a cassette to produce... That seems easy enough. I just frustrate myself trying to be an engineer. i can sit and lay tracks, if someone else is running the board.... but It would be really cool to send you the lyrics with a melody and see what you come up with. I need to give myself a week on this though. Lets make this our first co creation. I will just send you an acoustic demo.

    This is an excellent opportunity for us to get started on what we talked about.

    Puppet on a string is a pretty killer. Isnt this already on the radio Steven? You wrote this music? Wow. I could swear I have heard it!
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

      Steven if you will PM me an address... When I get the lyrics going in the right direction I will send you a cassette to produce... That seems easy enough. I just frustrate myself trying to be an engineer. i can sit and lay tracks, if someone else is running the board.... but It would be really cool to send you the lyrics with a melody and see what you come up with. I need to give myself a week on this though. Lets make this our first co creation. I will just send you an acoustic demo.

      This is an excellent opportunity for us to get started on what we talked about.

      Puppet on a string is a pretty killer. Isnt this already on the radio Steven? You wrote this music? Wow. I could swear I have heard it!
      The reason it sounds so familiar is because musically it's inspired by just
      about every 60s song ever written. The verse was inspired from several
      songs the Beatles did including ones sung by both John and George. The
      chorus, if you listen carefully enough, is derived from "Ain't Too Proud To Beg"
      but with a pop twist.

      I lived through the 60s and that's always been my favorite musical time,
      which might explain another part of my problem, writing music that is more
      contemporary. I don't relate to a lot of the styles that are popular today. I
      certainly don't relate to Katie Perry and that gal with the 100 different
      hairdos. Can't remember her name, thank God.

      So really, if you don't like what the masses are listening to today, how can
      you write for them?

      The only music I listen to these days is Christian contemporary. And even
      that, I don't really "feel" as it has a certain structure that is also foreign to
      what I normally do.

      I've sent you a number of my tunes about a year or so ago. If you listen to
      them, you can clearly see that they're stuck in a time machine. And while I
      know I can write good music to good lyrics, how commercial that music is
      going to be is quite another story.

      As for sending me lyrics with a melody, honestly, that's going to turn my
      head into a train wreck. Once I hear the melody you came up with, I'll
      never be able to get it out of my head, unless I literally put the lyrics away
      for 6 months, and I'll end up trying to "fit" the melody to my own creative
      process and what will happen is it's going to end up sounding like crap. And
      that's not on you. That's on me being totally unable to write something to
      a set of lyrics that already have music to them.

      The only exception happened once when I wrote my own arrangement to
      Jingle Bells. It's like two different songs. But that was a once in a lifetime
      thing. If the recording of it wasn't so horrible, I'd let you hear what I did
      with it, but it was years ago when I was an even worse engineer than I am
      now. The vocals were over-recorded and the whole mix was so hot that it
      pins the meters. In short, it's a mess. But the arrangement is so catchy.
      Shame I had to wreck it with a lousy recording.

      Anyway, I'm babbling now so I'll just sign off with another one of my "better"
      tunes. Too bad the lyrics are so lame.


      Oh, and here's my own version of the Theme From MacGyver. Always wanted
      to do this.

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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    Yeah she sounds aweful special!

    We are going to give her a song she can still sing.

    I once wrote a song for my daughter... That had a verse that said "If I could be the sky, I'd make a rainbow way up high, I'd just let the wind blow, and sing my soul through trees, I'd be the breeze... If I could be a star, man I'd be out there oh so far, makin wishes come true, especially for you..."

    This kind of reminds me of the spirit of that.

    Originally Posted by MissTerraK View Post

    @ Dennis

    Aww come on, can't you just toss out a lowly beggar a lil morsel? Pretty please??

    Yes...Or even some of your thoughts that can be crafted to really help this idea be expressed would be awesome...I can put some rythem to the words if needed, as Steven said... This kind of a song needs depth though not just tricky words... Nobody is deeper than Dennis.

    We are already saying what Ms. Terras mom wants to say in the chorus, but what is the set up? What leads us to this...twice... or what is the creshendo- the moral of the story...What does Ms. Terra get when she hears these words in her head, and is reminded that mom still lives on in her? Thats a bridge. The verses are a story...the chorus is the repetitive theme, and the bridge is the main point, moral, the meaning of it all, what she feels inside when she hears her mothers words (husbands in this case)...

    A chorus can be beautiful... but if it isnt set up right, the punchline wont punch, and it steals all the power from what would have been an awesome chorus... So with a chorus, even if its great... that doesnt make a great song yet.... We could sing the chorus all day and it will be beautiful as a stand alone... but if you stick verses on it that dont set up the punch line to punch...then it loses all its power.

    The bridge, though... thats the creshendo...its the "and every time I hear these words it makes me...or takes me back to....and I feel...and then the whole world is perfect again..." sort of thing. Or " just when things arent feeling right these words come back to me...and..." sort of thing.

    Maybe in the second verse does it remind of you of something God also quietly speaks to you at times? Do the words have a double meaning?

    Who knows. But this is a great concept.

    Hmmm... second verse, double meaning of some sort.... it will come together. The idea is there.
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Well jeez people.....

    I might not relate to the music all that well - but I understand holding on to a dream. I understand looking for that outrageous crystal - and writing that bestseller. I've yet to give up on either.

    Three years ago there was that thread in here and we all started giving each other gifts.........and I offered Steve an article. He said he wanted lyrics. Okay. Sure. I'd never even come close to THINKING about writing a song lyric before. But that's what he asked for, so without the first iota of an idea of what I was doing, I wrote. And he put a melody to the words. It charged me for everything I was worth to hear it. My words had a sound. So I understand that much. I understand what it is like to have your idea echoed with notes. I would never have known that without one simple request from Steve. It didn't change my life in any overt way - but it changed me inside a little bit.

    I haven't achieved my dream yet - but it's in the works. I have a hella good start to it. Whether it will be the hit I'd like to see it become or not, I don't know. But I'll be able to at least say I gave it a shot. I'd like to find that someone to share it with, too. Even if I achieve what I want, I've really got no real way to share it - to make it whole for me.

    I've still got this feeling..........I need to finish my book. I don't know whether it's the book itself or something that is waiting in my future that is spurring me on........but I am staying with it to find out. So much in my life didn't work out the way I had planned - envisioned - that I think it's all still ahead waiting to ambush me. Maybe on the way there I'll find lyrics in my head hiding somewhere and I'll brush them off and give them to someone so I can hear my thoughts and feelings with notes attached again.
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    • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      Maybe on the way there I'll find lyrics in my head hiding somewhere and I'll brush them off and give them to someone so I can hear my thoughts and feelings with notes attached again.
      It's fun, but it's funny how it works out sometimes. I've got a friend in Colorado that's in a band. One time when he was stuck for song ideas I sent him the lyrics to one of my old songs. They wrote music for it and put it on their CD and send me a copy.

      Now, when I write lyrics I usually have a tune in my head, and that one was no exception. When I listened to the song, it was about as far away from what I had in my head as you could get. I didn't like it at all. It's grown on me some since then, but the first listen was ... um, not what I expected.
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      • Profile picture of the author HeySal
        Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post

        It's fun, but it's funny how it works out sometimes. I've got a friend in Colorado that's in a band. One time when he was stuck for song ideas I sent him the lyrics to one of my old songs. They wrote music for it and put it on their CD and send me a copy.

        Now, when I write lyrics I usually have a tune in my head, and that one was no exception. When I listened to the song, it was about as far away from what I had in my head as you could get. I didn't like it at all. It's grown on me some since then, but the first listen was ... um, not what I expected.

        Must be part of what it's usually all about, Dennis. I had no notion of what I was doing - nothing per-concieved at all. I had no clue what he would do to them. So I enjoyed hearing his version of what was in my head. It wasn't an award winner - more's the pity for us both, but it was pretty special anyhow. I would do it the same way if I did it again - but I'd look up some advice on how to write lyrics first so I wouldn't be giving the music writer such a hard way to go again.
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    Well, you do great with music, what you need is a modern "melody" and you wont have a problem creating music around it. It isnt the music that is 60's or not...you can arrange around anything Im sure... Its just coming up with modern "melodies", and I have a good one for the chorus of this at least...the verses and bridge remain to be seen. Will work on it and get it to you one way or the other... I think you can producee modern music with your ability to be relevant...again, i think you just need a modern Melody to build around.
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    Gosh Darn, this is going to be my favorite song... It may not turn out like you expect it to Ms. T. You can only say so much in three minutes and twenty seconds... but its the overall "feeling" that matters.

    And the chorus is your husbands words so I will give him a writers credit.

    Wow. Thank you so much Terra.... I thought I had lost all inspiration to write music. I cant even play it myself without crying. I will get a recording of this up within a week for Steven to work on. This is going to be beautiful.

    Again , it wont be your moms exact story...but it will be for her, and we will give her credit for it if it ever goes anywhere.

    I almost have to write it from a male perspective...or it wont sound cool to sing, but it would be better from a female perspective and could be changed with just a couple of words.

    I also think of my own mother...and how it would feel if she was ever gone, so there is some of that in there. Cant put up the lyrics without a recording, because the verses would have no rythem without the melody, and you wouldnt be able to follow the rhyme.

    As far as melody , think along the lines of Garth Brooks "What she's doing now", only with originality, but thats the general kind of feel. I think you will like it.
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

      I will get a recording of this up within a week for Steven to work on.
      Work on? Woooo, I'm not touching a masterpiece.

      I can't WAIT to hear this. I'm already chomping at the bit.

      Let us know when it's done.

      PS - I'm so glad you've gotten the inspiration to write again. That's about the
      best news I've heard all day.
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    • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
      Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

      Gosh Darn, this is going to be my favorite song... It may not turn out like you expect it to Ms. T. You can only say so much in three minutes and twenty seconds... but its the overall "feeling" that matters.

      And the chorus is your husbands words so I will give him a writers credit.

      Wow. Thank you so much Terra.... I thought I had lost all inspiration to write music. I cant even play it myself without crying. I will get a recording of this up within a week for Steven to work on. This is going to be beautiful.

      Again , it wont be your moms exact story...but it will be for her, and we will give her credit for it if it ever goes anywhere.

      I almost have to write it from a male perspective...or it wont sound cool to sing, but it would be better from a female perspective and could be changed with just a couple of words.

      I also think of my own mother...and how it would feel if she was ever gone, so there is some of that in there. Cant put up the lyrics without a recording, because the verses would have no rythem without the melody, and you wouldnt be able to follow the rhyme.

      As far as melody , think along the lines of Garth Brooks "What she's doing now", only with originality, but thats the general kind of feel. I think you will like it.
      You are the song writer John!

      Just knowing that my story about the love my mom, my hubby and I shared has been your inspiration, is completely awesome.

      I know I will love it even if it isn't our exact story, as you say, it is the sentiments behind the song that counts.

      I can't wait to hear it! You go, John!!

      There really is no need to thank me, it just is what it is, my history is all. I'm glad some more good can come from the ashes of my shattered life...at that time, anyway.

      Oh, and there really is no need to give hubby a writers credit, but thank you for the offer.

      Aw c'mon Steve! At least look it over and see if John's inspiration inspires you too?

      If you decline, no harm done.

      I'm sooo excited!

      Terra
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    I hope you guys can tell the difference betweeen a bathroom demo and a production... The vocals here are just what you call "scratch" and they sound like crud...because I did this with a phone. But here is the first verse and chorus. Usually I do more rocky kind of stuff ...anyway, this aint about me, so lets just listen. Its the song that matters. When I go to record it I will polish the vocals...and make it killer. This isnt exactly a studio mic. and Im still rough with the song. You may have to download to listen.

    Voice 014.3ga
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

      I hope you guys can tell the difference betweeen a bathroom demo and a production... The vocals here are just what you call "scratch" and they sound like crud...because I did this with a phone. But here is the first verse and chorus. Usually I do more rocky kind of stuff ...anyway, this aint about me, so lets just listen. Its the song that matters. When I go to record it I will polish the vocals...and make it killer. This isnt exactly a studio mic. and Im still rough with the song. You may have to download to listen.

      Voice 014.3ga
      I don't even know where to start.

      You know, too many people, when you ask their opinion on something, just
      say the politically correct thing because they don't want to hurt your feelings.
      But ultimately, they end up doing you more harm than good, especially when
      it's about something REALLY important.

      That's why I have always tried to be honest about things when asked because
      I would want the same courtesy in return. Otherwise, I never improve, I
      never grow, and I stay the same blithering uninformed idiot that I was before
      I asked for your opinion.

      So having said all that, I am going to be brutally honest with my comments
      here.

      Most TRUE songwriters can't sing for sh*t. Have you ever heard Burt
      Bacharach sing? God awful. But man, could that guy write. So, if you were
      as good a writer as I was expecting, I wasn't expecting to hear any kind of
      vocals that would make me take notice.

      And then you started singing and I completely lost track of the main reason
      I was listening to the darn song in the first place.

      John, you are country through and through. Maybe you wrote that song for
      Terra, but you could have written that for anybody. With a commercial
      arrangement, that's a "typical" country hit that YOU could sing.

      Now I know, the business is competitive and maybe your voice isn't quite as
      distinct as somebody like Randy Travis (one of my personal favorites) but
      I can't see why you couldn't make it as a singer if you really tried. I couldn't
      help smile through the whole song, and it wasn't because of what you were
      singing about because, quite honestly, I couldn't concentrate on the lyrics
      because I was so surprised by the vocals.

      The melody? Solid country melody. Not flashy but just what it needs to be.
      In fact, I could definitely hear it on the radio. You write commercial melodies,
      at least for the country genre. I'm not built that way. I don't think that way.
      My brain isn't wired like that. I'm too stuck between classical, opera, 60s,
      prog rock, Broadway and even Dragonforce. My musical tastes are so diverse,
      it's no wonder I can't write a "commercial" melody. Forget lyrics. I'm not a
      lyricist and shouldn't try to be. Music is my life, even if it is all over the place.

      I can't really comment on the lyrics because I'd have to try to listen to the
      song again and actually concentrate on them, and I'm not sure I could do
      that. But from the little bit I was able to absorb, they seemed passable as
      a hit record. Again, just going by what I'm used to hearing on country
      stations.

      Point is, you've done it before so I don't see any reason why you can't do
      it again. That's if you want to. Only you know the answer to how much fire
      you have left inside to give this one more shot. At least you have a resume
      behind you and maybe even some contacts. If I were in your shoes, I'd suck
      every last bit of juice out of whatever I could from those two things. I'd be
      knocking on doors and screaming, "Hey, I wrote XYZ 20 years ago. I want
      you to listen to my latest." I'd be calling up all my old friends. I'd do whatever.

      John, I don't have what you have. I most likely never will. And maybe having
      had it makes it something that just isn't as important to you anymore. I don't
      know. I do know that I NEVER want to get to the point where I've had so
      much success that I just don't care anymore.

      In short, I'd do anything, short of steal and commit murder, to have the
      "commercial" talent and opportunity that YOU have.

      So don't blow this. Life is too short.

      In the meantime, tomorrow I'll listen to it again when nobody is around and
      try to get more of the lyrics. I'm sorry but I was just too distracted by that
      very surprising voice.

      This is probably the most honest response I have ever given anybody in
      regard to feedback on their music, with the exception of one up and coming
      group that I know personally that I am hoping to God makes it big someday.
      They are so talented it's sickening.

      Well, so are you. If I had half of the talent you have in your pinkie in my
      whole body, I'd be something today instead of the guy whose friends tell
      him he shouldn't quit his day job.

      So damn it to hell. You have a gift

      USE it for crying out loud!

      Otherwise, it's an insult to poor schlubs like me who would give anything for
      the talent you have and the chance that you have to make something of it.
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    • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
      Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

      I hope you guys can tell the difference betweeen a bathroom demo and a production... The vocals here are just what you call "scratch" and they sound like crud...because I did this with a phone. But here is the first verse and chorus. Usually I do more rocky kind of stuff ...anyway, this aint about me, so lets just listen. Its the song that matters. When I go to record it I will polish the vocals...and make it killer. This isnt exactly a studio mic. and Im still rough with the song. You may have to download to listen.

      Voice 014.3ga
      Oh! My! Gosh!

      I love, absolutely love, it thus far!

      I can feel the emotion in that John, especially when Mom says I live on in you, etc.

      I only have one thing to say that you may not want to hear ...






















      You owe me a box of Kleenex!!!! Mr. John Durham aka singer, songwriter extraordinaire!!!

      I want a hot off the press first edition autographed CD!

      I honestly thank you from the bottom of my heart!

      Terra
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  • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
    Wow John! That's freaking great! You have an excellent voice too. Deeper than I'd imagined. Keep going, you don't need anyone's help. Bravo!
    Signature

    Just when you think you've got it all figured out, someone changes the rules.

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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    Very rough Dennis... if you will PM your email addy , I will try to send you some better produced stuff when I get it in the right format.

    Ps. Thanks. I appreciate your words. Its the song itself that I like.
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    Also, Dennis, when an artist records, or even when I do myself, I would probably sing it a little higher... I was kinda trying to keep it on the downlow so it wouldnt go red on the phone recorder.

    Another thing is is starts out in a lower key because in the end its going to creshendo and transpose into a higher one. This is d, but at the end it will jump up to E in the last chorus.

    Will probably be slightly faster too. The timing isnt really right here, because I was nervous showing it to you. lol

    Im glad you like it.

    Voice 014.3ga
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    Appreciate that Steven. Alot. I can sing alot better than that. I was trying to be quiet to not blow out the mic..., so the melody is there but the dynamics arent...and when you dont push, its easy to go flat and sharp and not give off any vibrato. When you hear my other travis tritt type stuff you wouldnt even recognize it as the same singer.

    As far as being commercial...that comes from having people pick apart your stuff so bad it makes you want to cry. When I was coming from Arkansas to Nashville, it was real easy to be a big fish in a little pond, but when I got to Nashville....EVERYBODY could play, and where in Arkansas I got a big response...there it was like..."Okay", so I had to work real hard and study, it didnt come so much from talent as just studying alot...

    You really play and write whatever you listen to...I dont listen to country much anymore, because todays country isnt my thing....this melody, if I took it to Nashville they would say is too "90's"...but I think if it was shopped around somebody who likes the 90's stuff would buy it.

    As far as not blowing it?

    I already did.

    But here's the good news for both of us... if you can keep growing you can be a hit songwriter when you are 80 years old...just not a "face".

    I truly thank you for putting so much time into your response... it is really moving that you thought so much of this, and you guys have almost made me think I want to move back there and have another go at it.

    No words for your response, it felt very nice to read,. Thank you for the good feeling. Keep your chin up, and make a "choice"....just decide what you want to write like, and start listening to that kind of stuff. What goes in your ears comes out your fingers I have always thought.

    Also I appreciate that you know the difference between a songwriter and an Artist. If someone were expecting an artist this may have disappointed. You expected me to not be able to sing, so it sounded a little better to you. lol Thats nice.

    Thanks again,

    John

    Ps. In the 90's, I was too "80's" lol Go figure.
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

      Appreciate that Steven. Alot. I can sing alot better than that. I was trying to be quiet to not blow out the mic..., so the melody is there but the dynamics arent...and when you dont push, its easy to go flat and sharp and not give off any vibrato. When you hear my other travis tritt type stuff you wouldnt even recognize it as the same singer.

      As far as being commercial...that comes from having people pick apart your stuff so bad it makes you want to cry. When I was coming from Arkansas to Nashville, it was real easy to be a big fish in a little pond, but when I got to Nashville....EVERYBODY could play, and where in Arkansas I got a big response...there it was like..."Okay", so I had to work real hard and study, it didnt come so much from talent as just studying alot...

      You really play and write whatever you listen to...I dont listen to country much anymore, because todays country isnt my thing....this melody, if I took it to Nashville they would say is too "90's"...but I think if it was shopped around somebody who likes the 90's stuff would buy it.

      As far as not blowing it?

      I already did.

      But here's the good news for both of us... if you can keep growing you can be a hit songwriter when you are 80 years old...just not a "face".

      I truly thank you for putting so much time into your response... it is really moving that you thought so much of this, and you guys have almost made me think I want to move back there and have another go at it.

      No words for your response, it felt very nice to read,. Thank you for the good feeling. Keep your chin up, and make a "choice"....just decide what you want to write like, and start listening to that kind of stuff. What goes in your ears comes out your fingers I have always thought.

      Also I appreciate that you know the difference between a songwriter and an Artist. If someone were expecting an artist this may have disappointed. You expected me to not be able to sing, so it sounded a little better to you. lol Thats nice.

      Thanks again,

      John

      Ps. In the 90's, I was too "80's" lol Go figure.
      More than ever now, I want to hear your "professional" stuff. I've been waiting
      for over year for crying out loud.

      My mother, God rest her soul, had a saying. Actually, she had quite a few
      sayings. She was very wise and very talented (a professional opera singer,
      concert pianist, and voice and piano teacher) and she said to me many times

      "To thine own self be true."

      I can't write what I don't feel. I've tried. I've tried to be metal or country
      or whatever the "sound" of the times were and it always ended up sounding
      like crap.

      I listen to the music of today and either I want to barf, or, in the rare case
      that I actually like it, wish I had that much talent. And most of "that" music
      isn't exactly "top of the charts" stuff. It's mostly alternative. A lot of it
      doesn't even get played on the radio.

      I should have been born in the 40s. I think I could have written for the 60s
      and possibly well enough to get a song cut. I'm not talking big hit, but at
      least I feel that music, and, it was easier to make it back then. Lots of songs
      that got cut as singles would never make it off the cutting room floor today.
      There is just too much money in this business today.

      Groups like Status Quo, The Move, Renaissance, Strawberry Alarm Clock,
      and on and on would have never even been given a chance today. I had a
      chance back then. But I was also a teenager and didn't even know I wanted
      to be a songwriter yet.

      What's done is done. I can't go back and I'm too out of touch with the
      youth of today to go forward. Sure, I could immerse myself in the pablum
      of today but I'll probably want to put a gun to my head before I even came
      close to writing something that was "acceptable."

      John, you have a gift. You have a feel for what's today. At least more than I
      do. That song, at least to me, didn't sound any different from the country
      tunes I've heard in the last 10 years.

      No, I'm not a country professional and maybe I'm not hearing it the way a
      "critic" would, but I know what I like and I think I'm fairly representative of
      the general public who listens to and likes country music.

      Some of my favorites:

      John Michael Montgomery (Life's A Dance)
      Randy Travis (Forever and Ever, Amen)
      Shania Twain (From This Moment On)
      Lonestar (I'm Already There)
      Garth Brooks (If Tomorrow Never Comes)
      Toby Keith (I Wanna Talk About Me)

      That's just off the top of my head.

      I have no doubt you could write for one of these artists and many others.

      Again, I'm no expert. If I was, I'd be somebody. But you've gotten a lot
      farther than I ever have so at least you have a shot.

      Well, I've said my peace.

      Tonight was certainly a pleasant and unexpected surprise.
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    Lol... Im glad you like it. I just wrote what came to me, I know your story is a bit different... Will be uploading more stuff soon. Please play it to your husband and tell him he inspired it. He deserves to know his thoughts are like music!

    This will sound really cool when you hear how it transposes to a higher key at the end... just havent written that far yet.
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    • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
      Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

      Lol... Im glad you like it. I just wrote what came to me, I know your story is a bit different... Will be uploading more stuff soon. Please play it to your husband and tell him he inspired it. He deserves to know his thoughts are like music!

      This will sound really cool when you hear how it transposes to a higher key at the end... just havent written that far yet.
      Haha!

      I played it for him and he just said, Wow!

      I said, Just Wow?

      He said yeah, Just Wow!

      Then he said to tell you that he's looking forward to hearing the whole thing.

      He likes it, lol!

      Terra
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    Thanks Steven,

    Appreciate it. The thing is you just have to set your mind to what you want to write and start focusing on learning that style. It has to be a deliberate thing... Also as far as being inspired, you have to be open to inspiration, and seize opportunities. For instance, when I hear something (non music) that touches me... I know there is good song potential there... like in this instance. I once went out looking at movie titles, go to the library and look for catchy book title. A movie once said that most people die in the woods because they focus on "how did this happen to me" instead of "What is my next survival move". Just start focusing on what it will take to move forward and not your perceived lack of talent. You have it all there. Just move forward with it. Dont get stuck in the woods. Dont depend on talent...rather depend on your ability to move forward deliberately. The idea of talent is vague, and esoteric...but deliberate intentions toward mastery cannot be stopped. Not that Im the master I aspire to be. May just go back and give this another shot sometime. There's the brutal honestly you were asking for brother...dont worry about what you dont have...focus on getting to where you want to be...first you have to be clear what that is....you can move from level to level... I have many more to go myself.

    Re listning, this would have been ten times better at about 5 points faster...thats how I play it at home, dont know why I was slow on recording

    Probably just nervous.

    -John

    ps. 7 keys brother...you can mold them anyway you like. You have all the material, and trust me, you have many styles in you if you develop them.

    The only reason I know this was that in order to keep my deal I had to write 8 songs per month, so I learned to go hunt down inspiration instead of waiting for it.

    Hunt it down... Look for hooks in anything you can...once the hook is there, the song writes itself. There are five directions this one could go...because the hook (idea) is already there. Once the story idea is there its just a matter of choosing how you build around it. This could tell many stories without changing the chorus.

    Pps. Im just now learning to write without having to have perfect meter or rhyme. This song was a good example of that. I t doesnt perfectly ryhme which wouuld have been an irritation to me years ago... but now I can do it....have always admired writers who write around the beat instead of right on top of it.
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

      Thanks Steven,

      Appreciate it. The thing is you just have to set your mind to what you want to write and start focusing on learning that style. It has to be a deliberate thing... Also as far as being inspired, you have to be open to inspiration, and seize opportunities. For instance, when I hear something (non music) that touches me... I know there is good song potential there... like in this instance. I once went out looking at movie titles, go to the library and look for catchy book title. A movie once said that most people die in the woods because they focus on "how did this happen to me" instead of "What is my next survival move". Just start focusing on what it will take to move forward and not your perceived lack of talent. You have it all there. Just move forward with it. Dont get stuck in the woods. Dont depend on talent...rather depend on your ability to move forward deliberately. The idea of talent is vague, and esoteric...but deliberate intentions toward mastery cannot be stopped. Not that Im the master I aspire to be. May just go back and give this another shot sometime. There's the brutal honestly you were asking for brother...dont worry about what you dont have...focus on getting to where you want to be...first you have to be clear what that is....you can move from level to level... I have many more to go myself.

      Re listning, this would have been ten times better at about 5 points faster...thats how I play it at home, dont know why I was slow on recording

      Probably just nervous.

      -John

      ps. 7 keys brother...you can mold them anyway you like. You have all the material, and trust me, you have many styles in you if you develop them.

      The only reason I know this was that in order to keep my deal I had to write 8 songs per month, so I learned to go hunt down inspiration instead of waiting for it.

      Hunt it down... Look for hooks in anything you can...once the hook is there, the song writes itself. There are five directions this one could go...because the hook (idea) is already there. Once the story idea is there its just a matter of choosing how you build around it. This could tell many stories without changing the chorus.

      Pps. Im just now learning to write without having to have perfect meter or rhyme. This song was a good example of that. I t doesnt perfectly ryhme which wouuld have been an irritation to me years ago... but now I can do it....have always admired writers who write around the beat instead of right on top of it.
      Well, I still think it would be easier for me to find a quality lyricist to work
      with and just concentrate on the music part.

      Anyway, I don't plan on doing anymore writing for a long time anyway since I
      really have to concentrate on my business now with things being so bad
      thanks to this miserable economy.

      Anyway, I do wish you luck with whatever you decide to do with your talent.

      I'm sure you know what's best for you.
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      • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
        Oh, and John,

        In adding on to my last post, I forgot to say that hubby doesn't care for Country music so for him to be Wowed by it and say he likes it means a lot!!


        Terra
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        • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
          Okay, I just gave the tune another listen to. I'd really love to hear the whole
          thing completed so I can see how you tie it all up lyrically.

          See, my biggest criticisms of my lyrics is that the songs don't go beyond the
          initial thought. I don't tie it up with some catchy twist or whatever at the end.
          They don't resolve. I'm just saying the same thing over and over but just using
          different words.

          I get what they're saying but I don't know how to fix this. It's kind of like
          writing a mystery and then at the end, the killer is exactly who you expected
          or is cliche'd or whatever. There are no surprises and it falls flat at the end.

          For example, my songs about breakups or bad relationships, I always get
          letters back saying, "What caused this? What went wrong? Where's the detail?"

          Again, I get what they're saying. Somebody who has a hard enough time
          just getting things to rhyme has an uphill battle trying to paint the kind of
          pictures that these people are looking for.

          And yes, when I listen to the music of others, especially country music which
          is all about the story and less about the music, I hear it. I get the little twists.
          I see what they did there. I see all the detail.

          But ask me to come up with that kind of detail and those kind of twists? I'm
          not a lyricist. I never proclaimed to be. I don't write that stuff because I
          don't feel that stuff, at least not lyrically. I feel it musically. But music is
          only a part of the puzzle. And, from what I've been told, it's the least
          important part. It's the words that are everything. The music is just there to
          compliment the story.

          And the more I think about it, the more I understand. I think of some of my
          favorite songs and the words are amazing. Maybe I don't think about them
          consciously, but they're still there and they're important to the song.

          Case in point, had Paul McCartney sang "Ham and Eggs" instead of Yesterday,
          with the same melody, it wouldn't have been the same song. It wouldn't have
          become the most recorded song of all time.

          Each of us has to know our strengths and weaknesses. If I work hard enough
          on my music, I have a shot to turn out something "passable" for the masses.

          But lyrically? It would be like my trying to play basketball against Michael
          Jordan.

          OH well, I'm just gonna stop now because I'm only going to end up frustrated
          and depressing myself. And I can't afford that right now. I need to keep my
          head clear for the things in my life now that really matter.

          And right now, music is not one of them.
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
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    • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
      Hey John!

      I've been offline for a couple of weeks and was just wondering how you were faring.

      I'm still pulling for you to knock it out of the park!

      Terra
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      • Profile picture of the author John Durham
        Originally Posted by MissTerraK View Post

        Hey John!

        I've been offline for a couple of weeks and was just wondering how you were faring.

        I'm still pulling for you to knock it out of the park!

        Terra
        EEES coming Senorita!

        I was at my bro's house recording that last one on his $2800 Taylor 810 , the guitar I use to have... now I'm back to my little Yamaha acoustic and its hard to get inspired. I gotta get another 810.

        The tone on that guitar is amazing, you might agree, regardless of how I played it, do HEAR that thing? Thats on a CELL PHONE mic...not even plugged in. It comes across more bell like if you play it loud...the guitar tone.

        OMG such a sweet tone!

        I hate my current acoustic so much, that I wrote that on the piano (been into more electrics this past couple of years as far as purchases), but it sure sounds good with a "nice" acoustic guitar.

        I was actually playing it waaay soft, because it has so much tone and volume....Didnt want to blow out the mic as stated. That wasnt bringing out NEAR the tone that guitar has.

        Anyway, yes, its coming.
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        • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
          Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

          EEES coming Senorita!

          I was at my bro's house recording that last one on his $2800 Taylor 810 , the guitar I use to have... now I'm back to my little Yamaha acoustic and its hard to get inspired. I gotta get another 810.

          The tone on that guitar is amazing, you might agree, regardless of how I played it, do HEAR that thing? Thats on a CELL PHONE mic...not even plugged in. It comes across more bell like if you play it loud...the guitar tone.

          OMG such a sweet tone!

          I hate my current acoustic so much, that I wrote that on the piano (been into more electrics this past couple of years as far as purchases), but it sure sounds good with a "nice" acoustic guitar.

          I was actually playing it waaay soft, because it has so much tone and volume....Didnt want to blow out the mic as stated. That wasnt bringing out NEAR the tone that guitar has.

          Anyway, yes, its coming.
          I'm so excited hearing you say that, John!

          You know how sometimes, when you get really excited thinking about something and your heart beats a tad faster with a little adrenaline push?

          Yep! That just happened!

          Bring it, John!

          @ Dennis - I think what you are doing is awesome and since we are coming out of the closet...Oh yeah, that was the guitar.

          Anyway, I amaze myself with the mini-scripts I come up with but not more than the acting and the bringing to life of the characters I've created. Like you say, for my pleasure only!

          Terra
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          • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
            I've been away working on my first Kindle book, music trivia of the 60s. It should
            be published soon. I'll let you guys know when you can download a free copy.

            But back to this thread. So what's going on? What you up to now John? How's
            the song coming? Is it finished yet?

            Musically, I kind of feel like a fish out of water these days. My heart's just not
            in it. Maybe if I listen to some of the stuff I've done that I actually like it might
            inspire me again.

            Part of me misses it. Part of me is fed up with it. Part of me almost wishes I
            never got involved in it in the first place with all the disappointment I've had
            because of it. Know what it's like to be told that Crystal Gale might be doing
            one of your songs and have it fall through? And yes, this was long after she
            was popular while she was looking to make a "comeback."

            Well, I don't wanna go down that road again. Brings back too many painful
            memories.

            Damn, you'd think with all the hell I've been through because of this business
            I'd be miserable enough to come up with some great lyrics because of it.

            I can't even write well when I'm depressed.
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            • Profile picture of the author John Durham
              Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post


              I can't even write well when I'm depressed.
              Me too, I guess depression plays a little into it as well. Been going through some with a coming court hearing for the kids, alot of back and forth emotions... Am planning to finish it as soon as I get in that right creative space though. It will be coming soon . Cant leave that great idea like this one on the table for long.

              Ps. Steven, I have alot of depression songs too...and it doesnt help, they come out "depressed". When you right a song about a depressing subject it comes out better if you are in a spirit of "compassion" about the subject, as if someone else were going through it. Maybe its just me, but even now, when I listen to my depression songs, they make me depressed. I feel like "OMG why dont he just shoot himself and get out of his misery". lol

              Country music isnt just about depression obviously... I dont know where it got that rep, lovesick blues is all over all music. Probably the Hank song "tear in my beer" gave it that rep. Certainly alot of the more financially oppressed geographical areas are countryish... blue collar... Workin man music.

              You dont hear alot of pop songs about working at a factory I guess... I have never related country to depression, I just see it as a musical style... also alot of the lyrical jargon may be a bit unique to the style, but that is changing as more city slickers jump on it.
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  • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
    Looking forward to it, John. Keep plucking away.

    I was playing the other day, just going with the flow not knowing what note was even coming next, when all of a sudden...

    ...something I played almost sounded like music! It surprised me so much I stopped playing to try and repeat it.
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    Keep it up Dennis, its just like IM , you stumble, until you DONT.

    I should have picked some while I was recording that so you could really hear that guitar, but it wasnt the focus at the moment. Stumbled a bit with my fingers on that one, mostly because I was trying to hard to play softly.
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  • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
    John, I never took lessons, but I did play for about 15 years before I put it away. It sat in the closet for probably 20 years until I took it out a couple months ago. I'm probably better now, after just two months, then I was at any time during the 15 years I played regularly.

    I think the difference is, now I just play for myself. I don't care if anyone else likes it or even hears it. I don't have to be good. I just play because it's a creative outlet that I enjoy. That's very freeing.
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    • Profile picture of the author John Durham
      Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post

      John, I never took lessons, but I did play for about 15 years before I put it away. It sat in the closet for probably 20 years until I took it out a couple months ago. I'm probably better now, after just two months, then I was at any time during the 15 years I played regularly.

      I think the difference is, now I just play for myself. I don't care if anyone else likes it or even hears it. I don't have to be good. I just play because it's a creative outlet that I enjoy. That's very freeing.
      I knew you were being too humble. A man who can write the lyrics you showed me isnt exactly a beginner.

      Edit: No reason to tell all that... (deleted some stuff).

      In any event. Dennis, if your playing is anywhere near your lyrics, my hats off!
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      • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
        Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

        I knew you were being too humble. A man who can write the lyrics you showed me isnt exactly a beginner.
        No, I'm really not, John. There's a big difference between writing words and writing music, and playing music for that matter. My repertoire is very small, and would probably amount to little more than finger exercises for you. But, it makes me happy, and that's good enough to keep playing.

        Just so you don't think this is false humility, I will admit I'm pretty good with words. Maybe not with lyrics as I tend to get too complicated, but prose, yeah, I do OK.
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        • Profile picture of the author John Durham
          Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post

          No, I'm really not, John. There's a big difference between writing words and writing music, and playing music for that matter. My repertoire is very small, and would probably amount to little more than finger exercises for you. But, it makes me happy, and that's good enough to keep playing.

          Just so you don't think this is false humility, I will admit I'm pretty good with words. Maybe not with lyrics as I tend to get too complicated, but prose, yeah, I do OK.
          I dont think its false humility...but I think you are FULL of humility. Much better than some things one could be full of! lol

          One day I hope to hear you!

          On another note, you and I have had a spiritual chat a time or so... I have been taking in some different teaching lately and have listened to the book of daniel on audio about 3 times now, going to do it again tonight... When you understand how that potentially correlates with current events its mind blowing. Im really awestruck by it.

          There are some guys on youtube who illustrate the potential correlations with current events... and, while it speaks in metaphors, it has blown my mind to see the interpretations of it, and they seem pretty accurate ...

          While I have taken in alot of other teachings, I figured I would give the Bible a fair shot again, after talking to one of my brothers... starting with those prophecies... It has REALLY blown my mind to see some things in it more clearly than ever.

          I was asking him about the book of Revelations over Christmas, and he told me I had to read Daniel first to "get it"... so I did. Mind blowing. Cant stop replaying it after seeing the youtube guys.
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  • Profile picture of the author nik0
    Banned
    I can use a good copy for my sales thread, if interested shoot me a PM, seems there is plenty of time on hands
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    • Profile picture of the author peter_act
      Thanks Terra,

      As I said I just dashed it off in about ten minutes flat. Looking at it now, I'd change a couple of things.

      Using your exact phrase as the tag line at the end of some verses doesn't fit - it's one syllable short. That's why I had to put the extra "on" at the end of the second verse. I wanted to use your exact phrase, but now I think I'd like to change the title and the tag line to "Damn, you got me cryin' again"

      It scans much better, and gives the sense of frustration that this woman lets this man back into her life even though she knows it'll only bring her heartbreak - again.

      Also, if ever I think the words are a bit banal, I comfort myself that even the great ones wrote lyrics they were probably ashamed of.

      Consider:

      Oh yeah I'll tell you something - I think you'll understand
      When I say that something "I wanna hold your hand
      I wanna hold your ha-a-a-a-a-nd, I wanna hold your hand"

      I think I would have thrown those in the rubbish tin!

      nik0 - there is a world of difference between the words of a country song and good sales copy. That is a completely separate art form. If you want good sales copy, there's plenty to choose from on the WSO forum - just swipe the bits you like and change bits around, just like everyone else!
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  • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
    Well now, I didn't expect to see this old thread resurrected.

    Peter, your lyrics are decent and they make sense. In other words, it's like most songs aren't, so it would probably be rejected! Have you ever noticed the lyrics to a lot of popular are just awful?

    My songs would be rejected too. The lyrics are too complex in most of them. Stupid simple seems to be the key. Oh well, I never had any illusions I'd ever make money as a songwriter. I did enter a contest once just for fun. Never heard a word, not even an acknowledgement that my entry had been received. Maybe that's their version of a rejection letter.
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    • Profile picture of the author peter_act
      Hi Dennis, my old mate.

      How are things in chilly Wisconsin?
      It's a lovely 30 odd degrees here (88 degrees to you), I go swimming in the pool every day, and Surfers Paradise beach is just 12ks down the road, golden sands and 22 degree Celcius water temperature.

      Thanks for your kind words. yes my lyrics were trying to tell a story, as most country songs do.

      After I read Terra's comment, I took that title and went to bed with an idea about a mistreated woman who takes her man back, even though she knows it's the wrong thing to do, and will only cause her grief and heartbreak/

      I had to keep the words simple, as it was a country song, so my Cole Porter sophisticated lyrics would not have fitted (not that I have his God-given talent - I wish I did) Besides, that kind of lyric takes a lot of time and craftsmanship.

      This was just something I dashed off quickly, much like John Lennon used to do when George Martin needed a song to fill up a side of what was predominately Paul McCartney music.
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  • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
    Hi Peter

    We're doing those things you do in the fall to get ready for winter now. I'm doing well, other than having stuck myself in the eye with stick today trying to mow under some low hanging branches. I'm sitting here writing with one good eye, and one watering like it's a waterfall.

    Do you play any instruments? How long have you been writing lyrics?
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  • Profile picture of the author peter_act
    Sorry to hear about your injury, Dennis.

    We don't have to get ready for winter here, it's basically endless summer - we have two seasons, hot, and even hotter.

    We do have to prepare for bushfires, though.

    No, I don't normally write lyrics, that was just a one off, as Terra's phrase triggered a song title in my brain, and I foolishly suggested that I could write some lyrics, and she challenged me to do so.

    I used to do it years ago, waited for Andrew Lloyd Webber to contact me after his split with Tim Rice, but he must have misplaced my number, or perhaps I was out when he called!

    Instruments - I used to play a bit of lead guitar years ago (everybody wanted to be like Elvis, or in my case Cliff Richard), but found I was lacking a small thing called talent.

    Perhaps I should use the piano sitting in my lounge for something other than a ledge to put family photos.

    Hope the eye gets better soon
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