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Unread 27th December 2012, 05:14 AM   #1
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Default Why Should We Trust Doctors?

I always encounter the qualifier of consulting a doctor or medical professional about this or that. However, I've found that they are often quite uninformed on a vast array of health issues apart from those related to disease symptoms, drugs, and extreme procedures such as fixing broken bones and transplanting organs. They tend to be biased in favor of approaches that most enrich the pharmaceutical industry while being woefully ignorant of the merits of other approaches to healing.

In my own experience, I find that I have to second-guess doctors more often than I'd like, such as one who kept on prescribing antibiotics to my toddler, while a second opinion was that antibiotics would be inappropriate and extreme. A nurse once informed me not to worry about my toddler eating floride-containing toothpaste, but a dentist told me that ingesting flouride is bad for toddlers (which we'd already figured and acted on, on our own without the "medical professional green-light").

No, I don't blindly trust any authority, whether medical or other, however highfatutin' they may be. Some of the most highfalutin' accomplished, educated, rich successful and brightest people on this planet are among the most abusive as well, often notable not only for areas of brilliance but for blind spots as well.

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Unread 27th December 2012, 07:47 AM   #2
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Default Re: Why Should We Trust Doctors?

In the US, there was a nice TV series called HOUSE(The medicine and the way it is done on the show IS TRUE TO LIFE!). On cable, there was ANOTHER called medical mysteries.(ACTUAL REAL LIFE EXAMPLES). Sometimes, on a show called AMERICAN GREED(REAL LIFE EXAMPLES), there are shows about medical doctors. Look at MRSA! PNEUMONIA! I could go on and on!

MOST doctors are QUACKS! Most of the REMAINING doctors strive only to learn things DIRECTLY related to their chosen specialty. Most of those can NOT be trusted with anything outside the realm of that.

But doctors have conflicting priorities. Even on HOUSE there was an episode where the director of the hospital owned part of a company and wanted HOUSE to LIE about the companies product to promote it. HOUSE ended up saying, IIRC, that the drug was NOT any better than the old version but was different, and therefore patentable, so they could keep a lock on the market(AGAIN, TRUE TO LIFE). Disagree with me if you must, but such things happen.

The UNBELIEVABLE treatment of Ignaz Semmelweis in the 19th century is indicative of what happens even TODAY! Because doctors didn't want to wash their hands, MILLIONS of people DIED! And they sentenced Semmelweis to the SAME death because he called attention to it!

Don't believe me? MRSA and pneumonia are BIG problems today! WHY? Did they just spring up by spontaneous generation? Do they just MAGICALLY appear in patients? They would like you to THINK so. The fact is that Louis Pasteur got credit for destroying THAT belief. NO, they happen because of the careless handling and disregard for patients. MRSA is acknowledged to have been caused by, though they don't say it in these terms, simply going through the motions. One of those? Over prescribing antibiotics, like they did for your toddler!

And I write this NOT only as someone that has read, watched, etc... things on the subject, and seen other people treated, but they have treated ME that way ALSO! Did you ever notice that the ONLY times they seem to REALLY care is when THEIR health is at a definite risk, or maybe in the operating rooms(REMEMBER Semmelweis!!!!!!). Maybe the ONLY reason why they care in the operating room is because THEY are at risk. SURE, they may wear gloves, but they may come in close to talk and you may even feel spit! They will work long with you on the PRETENSE that this is IN CASE you magically get pneumonia, but may actually give you the illness in doing so.

And YEAH, they STILL talk about AMALGAM being safe, but have you read how they are to dispose of waste amalgam? I have! It is like the stuff is RADIOACTIVE! WHY? Could it be that dentists are afraid of how the prolonged exposure to it may affect THEM?

I had OPEN HEART SURGERY that could have been avoided if they used like early 20th century(Maybe this goes back to the 18th century, who knows?) technology, and did it as a cardiologist would. INTERESTING, all the cardiologists I have had do this! I heard about this technique in a school in the early 1970s. That school only went to the 4th grade(Average age of 4th graders is about 9yo)! So it is NOT new! HECK, even AFTER the operation(which left me with an almost audible click to the naked ear), a nurse ADMITTED that, using 20th century technology, a normal stethoscope, she did NOT hear my valve! A trained nurse, years earlier, should have been able to hear my sub par NORMAL valve. If they used the sphygmomanometer on BOTH sides, a deaf and barely capable nurse could have detected my problem, and prescrbed a drug to get e past the occasion with NO operation.

Did I mention that a doctor gave me a clean bill of health in a "complete physical" only 2 months before my operation? HEY, I went to a military school and THEY demanded that I get a "full physical", and it was EXTREME! I had to go to the HOSPITAL! I had to take barium, had xrays, mris, etc.... The one 2 months before my operation was a JOKE! It seemed like little more than a "doctor" visit.

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Unread 27th December 2012, 12:03 PM   #3
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Default Re: Why Should We Trust Doctors?

I went to a doctor for something very minor. I was given pills that made me so sick I was unable to defecate for two months. Then I was given another pill to keep me alive.

The pain was terrible. The pills were so strong I couldn't drive or anything.

You know what I went into the doctor for? I was welding and poked myself with hot mig wire and went to the doctor just to be on the safe side that I might get sick from that.

The doctor almolst killed me with the pills he gave me.

I poked myself again in the same way after that but did not go to the doctor and nothing happened to me, no infection or anything. So not only was poking myself with hot mig wire harmless, but I was given a pill for it that put me through hell and could have taken my life.

I was 17 at the time and blindly trusted Doctors.

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Unread 27th December 2012, 12:55 PM   #4
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Default Re: Why Should We Trust Doctors?

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I went to a doctor for something very minor. I was given pills that made me so sick I was unable to defecate for two months. Then I was given another pill to keep me alive.

The pain was terrible. The pills were so strong I couldn't drive or anything.

You know what I went into the doctor for? I was welding and poked myself with hot mig wire and went to the doctor just to be on the safe side that I might get sick from that.

The doctor almolst killed me with the pills he gave me.

I poked myself again in the same way after that but did not go to the doctor and nothing happened to me, no infection or anything. So not only was poking myself with hot mig wire harmless, but I was given a pill for it that put me through hell and could have taken my life.

I was 17 at the time and blindly trusted Doctors.
Poking yourself with a very hot wire,or one that was not contaminated after recently being very hot, will NOT hurt you! You could literally infect it with HIV, bacteria, small pox, and anthrax, heat it red hot, poke it into your skin and not even catch a cold! OH YEAH, I forgot to tell you guys! My INR went to about 12(1 is normal, and the doctor must be notified, and gets scared if it hits 4!), and I was taking a medication(It must be popular, it used to be advertised on TV), SUPPOSEDLY to HELP me "go". It actually PREVENTED me from going. I felt like I was near death for DAYS! How did I survive? I lowered the warfarin, and stopped taking the other. My INR dropped to about 3(about where it should have been), and I could "go". Within about a day, I felt MUCH better!

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Unread 27th December 2012, 01:26 PM   #5
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Default Re: Why Should We Trust Doctors?

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quite uninformed on a vast array of health issues apart from those related to disease symptoms, drugs, and extreme procedures such as fixing broken bones and transplanting organs.
Why should a medical doctor - trained in disease/drugs/procedures such as setting bones and transplanting organs....be expected to know about all other "health issues"???? Many doctors are specialists but having an M.D. doesn't mean you know everything about health.

Just as in any profession - some doctors are better than others. Whenever a doctor prescribes a medication for me I want to know what it is, why I need to take it and what the potential side effects are. I've never encountered a doctor unwilling to answer those questions. If I did, I'd find another doctor.

If I stuck a wire in my finger, I'd clean the wound immediately and check to make sure my tetanus shot was current.


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Unread 27th December 2012, 02:09 PM   #6
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Default Re: Why Should We Trust Doctors?

Well...you can always get a 2nd opinion...unfortunately, that would be from another doctor...

And there is a wealth of information to be obtained on the net...we don't have to go to the local barber for bloodletting anymore...(while thoughts of Sweeney Todd dance through my head )
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Unread 27th December 2012, 02:28 PM   #7
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Default Re: Why Should We Trust Doctors?

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Why should a medical doctor - trained in disease/drugs/procedures such as setting bones and transplanting organs....be expected to know about all other "health issues"???? Many doctors are specialists but having an M.D. doesn't mean you know everything about health.

Just as in any profession - some doctors are better than others. Whenever a doctor prescribes a medication for me I want to know what it is, why I need to take it and what the potential side effects are. I've never encountered a doctor unwilling to answer those questions. If I did, I'd find another doctor.

If I stuck a wire in my finger, I'd clean the wound immediately and check to make sure my tetanus shot was current.
That's fine, so the disclaimer notice that is the end of so many health article should read: "DISCLAIMER: If you have health concerns, it is always best to consult with a doctor or medical professional before beginning any dietary or exercise regimens. Beware that doctors are more than likely ignorant and useless on health topics that concern you, but we pasted this disclaimer here because everyone else does."

That all said, I sometimes see paramedics treating people who've been shot or stabbed or beaten up in my neighborhood, then given life-saving treatment at hospitals. Is that a good thing, I don't know. What percentage of them are gangsters and criminals? Anyway, doctors do save lives every day, including lives that don't deserve to be saved.

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Unread 27th December 2012, 03:24 PM   #8
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Default Re: Why Should We Trust Doctors?

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That all said, I sometimes see paramedics treating people who've been shot or stabbed or beaten up in my neighborhood,
If you are being literal, I would say its high time to move.


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Unread 27th December 2012, 03:36 PM   #9
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Default Re: Why Should We Trust Doctors?

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Why should a medical doctor - trained in disease/drugs/procedures such as setting bones and transplanting organs....be expected to know about all other "health issues"???? Many doctors are specialists but having an M.D. doesn't mean you know everything about health.

Just as in any profession - some doctors are better than others. Whenever a doctor prescribes a medication for me I want to know what it is, why I need to take it and what the potential side effects are. I've never encountered a doctor unwilling to answer those questions. If I did, I'd find another doctor.

If I stuck a wire in my finger, I'd clean the wound immediately and check to make sure my tetanus shot was current.
You're RIGHT! NOBODY in their right mind expects ANYONE to know everything about ANYTHING! But the idea of wire/tetanus/disease/heat is a COMMON problem! General anatomy is COMMON! Antibiotics is COMMON! For blood pressure, a person that doesn't know the right way should NOT be doing it! And LISTEN to the patient!

As for the doctor/questions, that is, in practice, WRONG! If you are in a hospital, they may be SCARCE, etc... ALSO, you may NEVER see them again! I once HARASSED a doctor to get answers. I harassed him AT HIS OFFICE for about 2 WEEKS! HEY, I had nothing better to do, LOTS of free time, and the hospital cafeteria was actually GOOD! By the end of that time, I figured I was doomed to live with any problems, etc... and settled for a writeup on the operation.

The writeup did NOT answer my simple question. I STILL don't know if it is wise doing pushups. I could have suffered a SERIOUS injury the first time I ATTEMPTED it! You see, they ripped part of my right pec OUT! It is GONE! My right arm pulls back farther, and can kind of lock behind me! It is NOTICABLE to me. If I do a pull up(Is THAT safe?) you can clearly see the difference in my chest. They ADMITTED that they removed it just as I was coming out of the stupor, etc... The writeup simply says it(NO FURTHER DETAILS) was done to facilitate the bypass.

Th doctor FINALLY called me MONTHS later! Like it could have in any way made a difference to me. If that muscle rips, he and/or that hospital WILL be named in a suit!

And if a doctor doesn't know something, they should CONSULT, or recommend someone that DOES!

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Unread 27th December 2012, 03:41 PM   #10
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Default Re: Why Should We Trust Doctors?

Im posting about the title of your post only.

If you don't trust doctors how are you going to get better if you get sick?
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Unread 27th December 2012, 03:57 PM   #11
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Default Re: Why Should We Trust Doctors?

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Im posting about the title of your post only.

If you don't trust doctors how are you going to get better if you get sick?
I go to doctors for what they're good for, but don't waste my time or theirs consulting them on health-related topics on which most of them are useless. Is that fair?

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Unread 27th December 2012, 03:58 PM   #12
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If you are being literal, I would say its high time to move.
It happens in your neighborhood too, I'll bet, even if you don't necessarily see it. My neighborhood is actually pretty nice and getting increasingly "gentrified". We have a good mayor who's cleaning up the town, so to speak.

(It would be hard for me to leave Gangcouver. Too many attachments).

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Unread 27th December 2012, 04:13 PM   #13
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Default Re: Why Should We Trust Doctors?

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Well...you can always get a 2nd opinion...unfortunately, that would be from another doctor...

And there is a wealth of information to be obtained on the net...we don't have to go to the local barber for bloodletting anymore...(while thoughts of Sweeney Todd dance through my head )
Yeah, I always get my medical information from random strangers on the Internet.

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Great men are almost always bad men."
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Unread 27th December 2012, 04:21 PM   #14
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Default Re: Why Should We Trust Doctors?

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It happens in your neighborhood too, I'll bet, even if you don't necessarily see it. My neighborhood is actually pretty nice and getting increasingly "gentrified". We have a good mayor who's cleaning up the town, so to speak.

(It would hard for me to leave Gangcouver. Too many attachments).

When i was posting that, i was really thinking... damn he must have moved into
my old place. :p ( inner city NY )

I moved to a really nice place ( neighborhood wise ) in florida.

BUT, its going backwards since we moved in, as in 20 years from now
i would not be surprised if this gated community might either be the ghetto
or on the fringes of it.

o crap... maybe its high time I moved


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Unread 27th December 2012, 04:26 PM   #15
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Default Re: Why Should We Trust Doctors?

I don't.
Here's the Cliff's Notes version of a typical doctors visit.

"Ok, Mr. Combs. What seems to be the problem?"
"I feel like shit."
"Ok. I'm going to write a prescription. Come back in 2 weeks""

And for that I pay an outrageous amount of money.

Basicly, it's the illness d'jour that they treat.

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Unread 27th December 2012, 04:27 PM   #16
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Default Re: Why Should We Trust Doctors?

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In the US, there was a nice TV series called HOUSE(The medicine and the way it is done on the show IS TRUE TO LIFE!). On cable, there was ANOTHER called medical mysteries.(ACTUAL REAL LIFE EXAMPLES). Sometimes, on a show called AMERICAN GREED(REAL LIFE EXAMPLES), there are shows about medical doctors. Look at MRSA! PNEUMONIA! I could go on and on!

MOST doctors are QUACKS! Most of the REMAINING doctors strive only to learn things DIRECTLY related to their chosen specialty. Most of those can NOT be trusted with anything outside the realm of that.

But doctors have conflicting priorities. Even on HOUSE there was an episode where the director of the hospital owned part of a company and wanted HOUSE to LIE about the companies product to promote it. HOUSE ended up saying, IIRC, that the drug was NOT any better than the old version but was different, and therefore patentable, so they could keep a lock on the market(AGAIN, TRUE TO LIFE). Disagree with me if you must, but such things happen.

The UNBELIEVABLE treatment of Ignaz Semmelweis in the 19th century is indicative of what happens even TODAY! Because doctors didn't want to wash their hands, MILLIONS of people DIED! And they sentenced Semmelweis to the SAME death because he called attention to it!

Don't believe me? MRSA and pneumonia are BIG problems today! WHY? Did they just spring up by spontaneous generation? Do they just MAGICALLY appear in patients? They would like you to THINK so. The fact is that Louis Pasteur got credit for destroying THAT belief. NO, they happen because of the careless handling and disregard for patients. MRSA is acknowledged to have been caused by, though they don't say it in these terms, simply going through the motions. One of those? Over prescribing antibiotics, like they did for your toddler!

And I write this NOT only as someone that has read, watched, etc... things on the subject, and seen other people treated, but they have treated ME that way ALSO! Did you ever notice that the ONLY times they seem to REALLY care is when THEIR health is at a definite risk, or maybe in the operating rooms(REMEMBER Semmelweis!!!!!!). Maybe the ONLY reason why they care in the operating room is because THEY are at risk. SURE, they may wear gloves, but they may come in close to talk and you may even feel spit! They will work long with you on the PRETENSE that this is IN CASE you magically get pneumonia, but may actually give you the illness in doing so.

And YEAH, they STILL talk about AMALGAM being safe, but have you read how they are to dispose of waste amalgam? I have! It is like the stuff is RADIOACTIVE! WHY? Could it be that dentists are afraid of how the prolonged exposure to it may affect THEM?

I had OPEN HEART SURGERY that could have been avoided if they used like early 20th century(Maybe this goes back to the 18th century, who knows?) technology, and did it as a cardiologist would. INTERESTING, all the cardiologists I have had do this! I heard about this technique in a school in the early 1970s. That school only went to the 4th grade(Average age of 4th graders is about 9yo)! So it is NOT new! HECK, even AFTER the operation(which left me with an almost audible click to the naked ear), a nurse ADMITTED that, using 20th century technology, a normal stethoscope, she did NOT hear my valve! A trained nurse, years earlier, should have been able to hear my sub par NORMAL valve. If they used the sphygmomanometer on BOTH sides, a deaf and barely capable nurse could have detected my problem, and prescrbed a drug to get e past the occasion with NO operation.

Did I mention that a doctor gave me a clean bill of health in a "complete physical" only 2 months before my operation? HEY, I went to a military school and THEY demanded that I get a "full physical", and it was EXTREME! I had to go to the HOSPITAL! I had to take barium, had xrays, mris, etc.... The one 2 months before my operation was a JOKE! It seemed like little more than a "doctor" visit.

Steve
Ironic, coming from someone whose heart condition would have killed them years ago if you lived in any age other than the present.

Are you sure that instead of saying "most doctors are quacks" that you shouldn't bend over every day and kiss your butt in thanks for being alive and for the doctors for making it possible that you are even alive today?

I know, I know! You'll try to tell me about everything they did wrong. However, the fact is, you are alive. Be thankful.

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Unread 27th December 2012, 05:46 PM   #17
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Default Re: Why Should We Trust Doctors?

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Ironic, coming from someone whose heart condition would have killed them years ago if you lived in any age other than the present.

Are you sure that instead of saying "most doctors are quacks" that you shouldn't bend over every day and kiss your butt in thanks for being alive and for the doctors for making it possible that you are even alive today?

I know, I know! You'll try to tell me about everything they did wrong. However, the fact is, you are alive. Be thankful.
Well, they certainly gave me enough chances to die a painful death BECAUSE of how they did what they did. They had a whole team working on me. The one I went after was the one with the main responsibility but, in truth, there were at least 6 doctors on the team. Still, why should I have even gone through it. Ironically, the majority of the technology, at least to keep one alive 6+ years, was created in the 50s. If I could somehow have had a potential for a problem THEN, I probably wouldn't have needed the operation.

But I have LONG spoken about some good and fascinating discoveries. That doesn't outdo the bad. I would have been happier if I never had the problem.

BTW interesting trivia I just found out! Dr. Michael DeBakey, the person that defined classes of the problem I have(apparently, I have a DeBakey class II), and how to fix it, suffered the SAME problem in 2005 almost a year after I did! HIS operation ALSO, of course with his method, was only 7 hours. Mine was 13, as I recall. Anyway, he died 3 years later, July 11, 2008, at age 99.

As for DeBakey? I never knew him. I think it is amazing that they got such a thing to work. I guess he only tried it because it was the only way at the time, and really now, that it could be done. When you think of how the heart distorts, and all the pressure, and how thread could tear through tissue, etc... His prototype was done on his wife's sewing machine in 1953! That was before I was even BORN!

The way they're going, at the rate they are going, maybe in 20 years they could use an autologous tissue implant. Of course THAT would require weeks or months of planning probably. They could also maybe have some lattice to do the same thing.

Steve
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Unread 27th December 2012, 06:35 PM   #18
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Default Re: Why Should We Trust Doctors?

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I find that I have to second-guess doctors more often than I'd like
Happens to me too. Unfortunately they have to keep a lot of health conditions in mind. That would limit me from getting into the fine detail of each one, so I can understand it from anyone.

Also the theoretical understanding is different from the practical experience. For people who are living with a condition, they often understand that part of it better than most doctors.

But I want to understand everything I can for myself. I've had 2 different prescription mix ups by doctors and don't want another one. Both times I had questions that I didn't ask.

And another little problem. Statistically some of those doctors are alcoholics or drug addicts, or just very strange human beings. Stay awake when dealing with them.

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Well...you can always get a 2nd opinion...
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Unread 27th December 2012, 06:44 PM   #19
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Default Re: Why Should We Trust Doctors?

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Originally Posted by wlasikiewicz View Post
Im posting about the title of your post only.

If you don't trust doctors how are you going to get better if you get sick?
The body has a remarkable ability to heal itself. That's not to say we should always play tough guy and ride something out, but many times people do go to the doctor unnecessarily. The doctor gives them something they don't need and the body heals itself and the doctor gets the credit.

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Unread 27th December 2012, 08:13 PM   #20
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Default Re: Why Should We Trust Doctors?

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I don't.
Here's the Cliff's Notes version of a typical doctors visit.

"Ok, Mr. Combs. What seems to be the problem?"
"I feel like shit."
"Ok. I'm going to write a prescription. Come back in 2 weeks""

And for that I pay an outrageous amount of money.

Basicly, it's the illness d'jour that they treat.
Yep, it's a bit like depression being an illness; for a small minority it is, but for the vast majority, it isn't!

Of course doctors will throw drugs at it, and charge $50 or more for the 15 minute consultation!


Although a wad of cash thrown on the kitchen table and your soul mate doing the throwing would cure most, depression!!! :rolleyes:


So the best cure for depression is to go online and get a pep talk from a millionaire or get drunk!!! :rolleyes:

The drugs they will give you will basically do the same thing, except they will relax the muscles as well, which in most cases isn't necessary!


I would rather watch "Groundhog Day" while getting stuck into a large block of chocolate than, blow hundreds of dollars seeing a doctor!

Shane

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Unread 27th December 2012, 08:31 PM   #21
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Default Re: Why Should We Trust Doctors?

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Originally Posted by DJL View Post
Yeah, I always get my medical information from random strangers on the Internet.
My sarcasm is sometimes lost in the written word without an :rolleyes:

(Hence, the barber references...)

However, that being said - there is good information to be found from reliable medical sources if you know where to look. I would not discount the 'reliability' just because you do cannot see a diploma on the wall...my mother was a very well trained surgical nurse, and she taught me to not take everything as concrete. She taught me that there are different ways to attack the situation, assess the particulars and triage the situation to determine the best course of action. Don't always depend on a doctors diploma - they don't call it a 'practice' for nothing...
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Unread 27th December 2012, 08:31 PM   #22
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Default Re: Why Should We Trust Doctors?

I wouldn't blindly trust anyone. If in doubt, I'd get a second opinion and spend a lot of time googling the topic in question.

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Unread 28th December 2012, 03:58 PM   #23
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Default Re: Why Should We Trust Doctors?

after a couple of months in hospital with two broken legs, and a few months more, i have nothing but praise for the service i have received from the whole medical profession and it is free as it is socialised
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