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Edit 1/12/13- Leaks #s' 4 and 5 reared their heads today.. see explaino below

We had ANOTHER roof leak recently, the third one AFTER the installation of the new shingles earlier this year. Okay, so the first 2 leaks were during the installation process, one of which was major enough to flood my kitchen and require drywall a insulation and painting repairs. The other was caught before it could cause damage,
by my wife ,who alerted the crew of the leak. The new roofing code requires extra nails in the decking, before new shingles can be installed. The crew doing it MISSED the trusses hundreds of times, discovered due to the leak over the kitchen.
The contractor sent a guy into the attic , who knocked maybe half of the nails back through the decking, causing holes in the underlayment (peel and stick). The contractors solution was to add a layer of peel and stick over the areas, resulting in an uneven appearance of the shingles. After much back and forth with the company, they semi fixed one area of lumpy bumpys on the small shed roof off of the fireplace.
The latest leak was discovered in the garage attic whilst getting christmas decos down.SO, after two attempts the leak was patched and damaged decking replaced, and the contractor is blaming the trusses.
Ironically, the crew that did our roof got fired on their next job which a catastrophe style leak did thousands in damage to those customers.
The Supervisor in charge of our house and that one was demoted.

The sad/bad thing is the owner of the company is our next door neighbor.
He did not come over after the first leaks and generally avoided us unless he had no choice but to acknowledge us.
This time round, AGAIN he avoided us.
Big mistake.
The NEW super left his guy at the house today, and owner/neighbor pulled up as I was checking his work. We said Hello and he asked hows it look, I said you tell me. "Great". No man, better than it was.

My wife UNLOADED on him, purging 6 months of frustration,and worrying about roof leaks.,,in one RELENTLESS 15 minutes of carnage. She never cursed and stated fact and feeling and fury.
Totally professional, but merciless.

The end result is the roof is patched, albeit not pretty, but patched.

And my neighbor/roofer will never forget the scalding wrath of a woman scorned.
  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    YEAH, that is BAD! Sadly, it probably isn't uncommon. a person came over a couple weeks ago to see if I would accept their business. They are promising customers that they will do all they can to fix roofs damaged by Sandy, and charge no more than $500, with the rest coming from insurance.

    He ALSO said that the shingles they used on many homes here were RECALLED, and that the format(size/type) has changed, so they can NOT replace them! If there is a problem that affects 2sf, for example, they USED to be able to replace maybe 4sf. NOW, they CAN'T, and must replace it ALL, or it will look patchwork, which affects the value of the home.

    I guess they caught me at the wrong time, because I am not aware of them coming out yet.

    You REALLY have to check such things, etc... When they are done, check the upper floor, attic, or roof, depending how far you want to go. ALSO, check the outside to make sure things seem flat and well sealed. Even on the GROUND you can catch a lot.

    Steve
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    • Profile picture of the author Big Rob
      Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

      YEAH, that is BAD! Sadly, it probably isn't uncommon. a person came over a couple weeks ago to see if I would accept their business. They are promising customers that they will do all they can to fix roofs damaged by Sandy, and charge no more than $500, with the rest coming from insurance.

      He ALSO said that the shingles they used on many homes here were RECALLED, and that the format(size/type) has changed, so they can NOT replace them! If there is a problem that affects 2sf, for example, they USED to be able to replace maybe 4sf. NOW, they CAN'T, and must replace it ALL, or it will look patchwork, which affects the value of the home.

      I guess they caught me at the wrong time, because I am not aware of them coming out yet.

      You REALLY have to check such things, etc... When they are done, check the upper floor, attic, or roof, depending how far you want to go. ALSO, check the outside to make sure things seem flat and well sealed. Even on the GROUND you can catch a lot.

      Steve
      And that, My friend, is the coup de grais.

      22k on a roof that may decrease the value.

      After the initial leaks, Either my wife or myself would check the attics after or even during rains.
      since we are in the "dry" season here in florida, we slacked off of the diligence.

      Just happened to be raining when we were fetching the christmas stuff.

      It is discouraging and disappointing that we will always have worry about the stupid roof. And poor business practice from an UN-neighborly neighbor took away some of the sheen from our otherwise sparkly sub-division.

      As far as the roof gypsys working your neighborhood, it probably warrants a call to code enforcement to make sure they are on the up and up.

      You're right,Steve. Without full replacement, any patch looks like dookie.
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  • Profile picture of the author DJL
    Next time, maybe a metal roof would be better?
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by DJL View Post

      Next time, maybe a metal roof would be better?
      If it were a stretegic mix of rubber, diamond, titanium and asphault, it would STILL leak!

      Rub made it clear that the primary cause was incompetent STUPIDITY!

      Steve
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      • Profile picture of the author Big Rob
        Originally Posted by DJL View Post

        Next time, maybe a metal roof would be better?
        Considering the Metal was 34k, and the HOA would have had a hizzie fit,
        we opted for asphalt shingle. I have had Asphalt roofs done on 4.5 other homes I have owned and NEVER had an issue. The neighbor did save me some cash, but I would GLADLY have paid extra to avoid the aggrevation
        Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

        If it were a stretegic mix of rubber, diamond, titanium and asphault, it would STILL leak!

        Rub made it clear that the primary cause was incompetent STUPIDITY!

        Steve
        I would be Honored if you addressed me as RUB from here forward
        (This is ONLY for Seasoned Steves Use!)

        And %110 correct,Steve.

        The cascading incompetence was/is deflating.

        It was our next door neighbors company,for petes sake!

        He NEVER extended an olive branch, yet alone stay on top of HIS NEIGHBORS ROOF. Nimrod! I ALMOST felt bad for him yesterday, and probably should have at least tried to reign her in, instead I let her roll him up, slice him up and crush him into itsy bits.

        My wife talks to ALL the neighbors, including many sitting board members of the HOA. And they all now we are making structural repairs, and ALL their houses are as old as ours and ready for a ROOF.
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        • Profile picture of the author seasoned
          Originally Posted by Big Rob View Post

          I would be Honored if you addressed me as [COLOR=RoyalBlue]RUB [COLOR=Black]from here forward
          (This is ONLY for Seasoned Steves Use!)
          Sorry, I meant to say Rob.

          Steve
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          • Profile picture of the author Big Rob
            Originally Posted by thunderbird View Post

            Whoah, almost sounds as if you're married to my wife.
            If your Wife is of Hungarian/German descent with a hair trigger temper...

            Originally Posted by Raydal View Post

            If I'm doing a job for my neighbor I would do the best
            job possible seeing that I have to face them daily. This is
            a strange case.

            -Ray Edwards
            I know,Right? Thats what is irking us most. That and the leaks.

            I guess I expect the Golden Rule.



            Originally Posted by Dave Patterson View Post

            All I can say is...22K?

            I think maybe moving to FL and start a roofing biz wouldn't be a bad idea...
            C'mon down, Dave. I've been thinking the same

            Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

            Sorry, I meant to say Rob.

            Steve
            No worries, Steve. and my offer still stands...
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  • Profile picture of the author thunderbird
    Originally Posted by Big Rob View Post

    <snip>

    My wife UNLOADED on him, purging 6 months <snip>
    Whoah, almost sounds as if you're married to my wife.
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  • Profile picture of the author Raydal
    If I'm doing a job for my neighbor I would do the best
    job possible seeing that I have to face them daily. This is
    a strange case.

    -Ray Edwards
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  • Profile picture of the author Dave Patterson
    All I can say is...22K?

    I think maybe moving to FL and start a roofing biz wouldn't be a bad idea...
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    • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
      Originally Posted by Dave Patterson View Post

      All I can say is...22K?

      I think maybe moving to FL and start a roofing biz wouldn't be a bad idea...
      No kidding. We put a new roof on for under 5k, and that's a nearly 3,000 sq. ft. house.


      Rob, don't give him a break because he's your neighber, he didn't do right by you. I'd give him an ultimatum. Fix it right or face a lawsuit.
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      • Profile picture of the author Big Rob
        Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post

        No kidding. We put a new roof on for under 5k, and that's a nearly 3,000 sq. ft. house.


        Rob, don't give him a break because he's your neighber, he didn't do right by you. I'd give him an ultimatum. Fix it right or face a lawsuit.
        Way ahead of you. But here is the rub...

        Technically, he has fulfilled his warranty. Leaks fixed.

        The issue is one of aesthetics, hard to win, according to my lawyer.

        Believe me, the Wife will not let him rest easy
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        • Profile picture of the author seasoned
          Originally Posted by Big Rob View Post

          Way ahead of you. But here is the rub...

          Technically, he has fulfilled his warranty. Leaks fixed.

          The issue is one of aesthetics, hard to win, according to my lawyer.

          Believe me, the Wife will not let him rest easy
          It isn't enough to fix leaks. they need to be fixed RIGHT and be aesthetic

          Steve
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    • Profile picture of the author John Durham
      Originally Posted by Dave Patterson View Post

      All I can say is...22K?

      I think maybe moving to FL and start a roofing biz wouldn't be a bad idea...

      Roofing jobs are easy to get with an appointment setter too. An average appointment setter can set 5-8 leads a day in most average sized towns, offering free quotes and inspections. Imagine say 20 leads per week and averaging even ONE job through that.
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      • Profile picture of the author Big Rob
        Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

        Roofing jobs are easy to get with an appointment setter too. An average appointment setter can set 5-8 leads a day in most average sized towns, offering free quotes and inspections. Imagine say 20 leads per week and averaging even ONE job through that.
        Yup. All you have to do is get your contractors license (or rent one), Buy/lease trucks and equipment, hire qualified personnel,hire a supervisor,rent /buy an office warehouse,carry a bond/liability insurance, hire an office person, hire a salesman,
        market,advertise, ad nauseum.....

        PIECE OF CAKE!

        Mine was not the typical roof either,John.

        3200 sq ft house. 3 roof levels.
        Hip valley roof with chimney and MANY peaks and valleys.

        I'd estimate the median average shingle replacement here is about 12k.
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        • Profile picture of the author John Durham
          Originally Posted by Big Rob View Post

          Yup. All you have to do is get your contractors license (or rent one), Buy/lease trucks and equipment, hire qualified personnel,hire a supervisor,rent /buy an office warehouse,carry a bond/liability insurance, hire an office person, hire a salesman,
          market,advertise, ad nauseum.....

          PIECE OF CAKE!

          Mine was not the typical roof either,John.

          3200 sq ft house. 3 roof levels.
          Hip valley roof with chimney and MANY peaks and valleys.

          I'd estimate the median average shingle replacement here is about 12k.
          Im no roofer, but my friends company president was complaining of a roof leak on one of his buildings one day, and I casually offered to quote it for him years ago, not thinking he would take me seriously, but he did...and so quoted him 10k, after taking an experienced friend of mine up on his roof who was able to identify the problem.

          I got the job, and bought the materials out of the 50% I got paid up front, hired my friend , who hired a couple of hourly laborers to help him. They fixed it in one day and I made around 5k.
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          • Profile picture of the author Big Rob
            Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

            Im no roofer, but my friends company president was complaining of a roof leak on one of his buildings one day, and I casually offered to quote it for him years ago, not thinking he would take me seriously, but he did...and so quoted him 10k, after taking an experienced friend of mine up on his roof who was able to identify the problem.

            I got the job, and bought the materials out of the 50% I got paid up front, hired my friend , who hired a couple of hourly laborers to help him. They fixed it in one day and I made around 5k.
            I am not doubting you did, but in order to pass code here, a county inspection along with permits would have to be filed. Then the owner might be able to pull his own permits and be his own contractor, assuming all liability.
            At least in my area, this would not fly on a commercial zoned building.
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            • Profile picture of the author John Durham
              Originally Posted by Big Rob View Post

              I am not doubting you did, but in order to pass code here, a county inspection along with permits would have to be filed. Then the owner might be able to pull his own permits and be his own contractor, assuming all liability.
              At least in my area, this would not fly on a commercial zoned building.
              I guess this one just slipped under the radar.

              I dont suggest starting a fulltime business with it unless you get licensed... however I do suggest that if one wanted to start that business, there is profit and the possibilities are endless.

              Sometimes I feel like fixing a roof would be easier than managing a web customer, because you just fix it, it doesnt leak anymore, and thats it. You're done. Not so much guesswork.

              Plus you exercise and get a tan while you're at it.

              Im sure its good to save some profit for the seasonal lack of good work conditions...
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        • Profile picture of the author seasoned
          Originally Posted by Big Rob View Post

          Yup. All you have to do is get your contractors license (or rent one), Buy/lease trucks and equipment, hire qualified personnel,hire a supervisor,rent /buy an office warehouse,carry a bond/liability insurance, hire an office person, hire a salesman,
          market,advertise, ad nauseum.....

          PIECE OF CAKE!

          Mine was not the typical roof either,John.

          3200 sq ft house. 3 roof levels.
          Hip valley roof with chimney and MANY peaks and valleys.

          I'd estimate the median average shingle replacement here is about 12k.
          Isn't "renting" a license ILLEGAL? Licenses are meant to limit providers, allocate resources, enforce laws, and confirm competitency! NON of that will happen if you can RENT!

          Steve
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          • Profile picture of the author Big Rob
            Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

            Isn't "renting" a license ILLEGAL? Licenses are meant to limit providers, allocate resources, enforce laws, and confirm competitency! NON of that will happen if you can RENT!

            Steve
            Not %100 sure bout that,Steve. Contractors often work under someone elses GC, often for a percentage of the Job. If the GC is willing to "sub" a tradesmen, often they charge the tradesmen for the liabilty. I know this fact in the pest control, painting ,drywall,plumbing and electrical trades, at least that used to be when I worked the trades 15 yrs or so ago. Pretty sure that is how my roofer is operating also, His partner has a General Contractors license ( and has done work on the house), and goes under the same name.
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            • Profile picture of the author seasoned
              Originally Posted by Big Rob View Post

              Not %100 sure bout that,Steve. Contractors often work under someone elses GC, often for a percentage of the Job. If the GC is willing to "sub" a tradesmen, often they charge the tradesmen for the liabilty. I know this fact in the pest control, painting ,drywall,plumbing and electrical trades, at least that used to be when I worked the trades 15 yrs or so ago. Pretty sure that is how my roofer is operating also, His partner has a General Contractors license ( and has done work on the house), and goes under the same name.
              But the GC is STILL acting as a general contractor.

              Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author Big Rob
    Un-freaking believable.

    Whilst doing the laundry, my wife noticed some water on the floor behind the machines.
    She moved the machine to have a closer look, and water came gushing out of the dryer vent.
    Crap! How does freaking water get inside a dryer vent?

    So we call the Clown Corps out, of course they send 2 guys who barely speak english.
    They claim the leak is around the flashing at a window 10 feet away from the dryer vent.
    WTH?
    SO no fixey today, boss man call you munday, we fix no problem, adios...

    sigh....

    NOW we will have no choice but to hire an independent inspector/Roofing contractor to give us a written evaluation/recommendation, Then Lawyer up to see whats gonna fly.

    Meantime, water in the walls in Laundry room, and Sons connecting closet,JOY!
    Machines in dining room and off to the Laundromat for a fun filled Saturday

    " I picked a helluva week to quit sniffing glue"- Lloyd Bridges in Airplane (1976)
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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    HEY, I just got confirmation that I have a roof that was damaged by that storm sometime back *****AND***** it DOES have the recalled shingles. I got a huge run around by the insurance company, so I have to wait for a call.

    Logically, and with most dryer vents I have seen, the vent should go off to a side wall! They can get clogged and are ESPECIALLY likely to get clogged if they go UP! So WHY do you have water GUSHING? MINE goes to the side of the home, and is maybe a foot off the ground, so the whole city would have to be flooded such that we would need BOATS before water would come in. It is hard enough to clean my vent as it is. I had to clean it once because lint fell down the trap hole, and clogged things up.

    GRANTED, you might have an access port to the side, and your laundry room might be central, or in the basement, or some building code may require it(There are often restrictions as to how close a vent can be to a window, for example.), but I think most are on the side and off to the side.

    WHY do they make lint traps like that ANYWAY? I wondered that for DECADES, and this dryer is the EPITOME of what I feared. I have to treat the trap like dynamite, or lint falls off, and down the hole!

    BTW sounds to me like you have a BIG lawsuit in your future. Some people are SO stupid that they don't understand how bad such things can be.

    I heard a story here about a real estate agent that was showing a home. The prospect wanted to see how the refrigerator was hooked up. The refrigerator was pulled out, shown to the prospect, and shifted back. 3 days later, the place was practically a total loss! WHY? Well, the connection for the icemaker came lose, and flooded the apartment!

    Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author Big Rob
    The vent is in the center of the roof. I, too have always thought poor design. After further investigation, water was trapped inside the interior vent tube,which finally rusted through,causing
    the gush when my wife moved the machine. There is no visible breach around the goose neck on the roof.
    SO, how is water getting inside the vent? migrated from the window flashing leak?
    All the yahoos did to remedy that was goop cheap caulking around the base of the window.Quality!
    Monday we're calling the county and they to get a code enforcement inspection.
    THIS SUCKS!


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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by Big Rob View Post

      The vent is in the center of the roof. I, too have always thought poor design. After further investigation, water was trapped inside the interior vent tube,which finally rusted through,causing
      the gush when my wife moved the machine. There is no visible breach around the goose neck on the roof.
      SO, how is water getting inside the vent? migrated from the window flashing leak?
      All the yahoos did to remedy that was goop cheap caulking around the base of the window.Quality!
      Monday we're calling the county and they to get a code enforcement inspection.
      THIS SUCKS!


      Posted from Warriorforum.com App for Android
      HOWEVER the drain goes there MUST BE, and I am sure code REQUIRES a CAP of some sort! My SIDE vent has a downward facing cover and the inside is obfuscated such that water will NOT go in, and animals would have a hard time getting in. BESIDES, any animal large enough to get to the vent would be too large to get through it ANYWAY. They DO make such caps for upward facing vents ALSO!

      Those are generally for drains and exhaust gases!!!!!!!! Waste drains can build up gases, and air facilitates drainage, so they may be there. And exhaust from combustion of forced air/water heaters can be deadly, so IT is vented also. IMAGINE what would happen if your heaters didn't have covers on the vents! At BEST, you may find it impossible to stay warm in the winter or rain storms.

      Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author Lori Kelly
    That stinks. And it will literally if it leads to mold. Not sure where you are in the world, but general contractors don't like having complaints filed against them. If you're in an area where the GCs have to be licensed, perhaps a conversation with the neighbor about fixing the problem correctly rather than going the route of a complaint against his license might do the trick.

    I like your wife. She sounds a lot . . . like me.

    Good luck to you. And sorry you have to go to a laundry mat.
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by Lori Kelly View Post

      That stinks. And it will literally if it leads to mold. Not sure where you are in the world, but general contractors don't like having complaints filed against them. If you're in an area where the GCs have to be licensed, perhaps a conversation with the neighbor about fixing the problem correctly rather than going the route of a complaint against his license might do the trick.

      I like your wife. She sounds a lot . . . like me.

      Good luck to you. And sorry you have to go to a laundry mat.
      You mean someplaces GCs DON'T have to be licensed? YIKES! And it sounds TOO LATE to properly fix it amicably. HECK, I would want to be put up in a fancy hotel nearby and have the whole place torn down and rebuilt by a GREAT contractor before I would forget about that! A bad roof is one thing. Dryer vent another. Water damage ALONE is crossing the line. Not attempting to fix it ASAP is like getting in the SR71 and trying to fly to the moon! THAT is how far over the line it is. Mold can start QUICKLY! And it may proceed from there.

      BTW licensed or no, a complaint can hurt him. Sometimes they start licensing BECAUSE of complaints! That happened with stock brokers and insurance agents and may have with realestate agents ALSO. As for GCs, I thought it was a given. My father dealt with one guy that CLAIMED to be able to design things, and it turned out that he used a program I had that anyone HERE could get or use. GREAT for concepts, mock ups, walk throughs, sales, but NOT the end all be all for design. For THAT get an architect or someone with a good track record. So such people should be LICENSED! Maybe not the workers, but at LEAST the guy that orchestrates them, which I BELIEVE is generally the GC! Of course, something like roofing or a dryer vent fix is FAR simpler, but you STILL want a person with EXPERIENCE!

      Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author Lori Kelly
    Welcome to Texas. Out here in the Hill Country, any yahoo can call himself (or herself) a general contractor and slap up a house. Yikes is right.

    A complaint against a GC is serious business. The hearings, possible black marks, fines, loss of license is or should be a main concern for any licensed GC'.

    People do check with local business license offices to make sure there are no complaints before they choose a contractor. The more complaints, the less likely it is the GC will get new business which will lead not to just a loss in the GC's revenue but possible revocation of a license.

    Here in Texas, mold is a huge issue. With our humid climate, a leak anywhere in a house could result in thousands of dollars in repairs. And it's not easy to get rid of mold.
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  • Profile picture of the author Big Rob
    Yup,Boys and girls. Mold big issue hear on the east coast of florida

    @Lori My wife has a plan of action... it will be brutally effective

    @steve I am sure it is a breach in the flashing,
    Mobile at the moment , google gooseneck roof vents
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by Big Rob View Post

      Yup,Boys and girls. Mold big issue hear on the east coast of florida

      @Lori My wife has a plan of action... it will be brutally effective

      @steve I am sure it is a breach in the flashing,
      Mobile at the moment , google gooseneck roof vents
      OK, you made it sound like the water was coming through the pipe.

      Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author KimW
    My wife always wants to get friends and neighbors to do stuff we needed done thinking we will get a break. I learned long ago that is a mistake. She always wants to remain friends so would never complain when a job was done poorly,which was more often than not. It was getting to where I was paying more for professionals to come in and redo jobs after she had already paid the friend.
    I finally told her no more. We always go with people we don't know so we don't have to worry about business and private lives interfering.
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    • Profile picture of the author Big Rob
      Originally Posted by KimW View Post

      My wife always wants to get friends and neighbors to do stuff we needed done thinking we will get a break. I learned long ago that is a mistake. She always wants to remain friends so would never complain when a job was done poorly,which was more often than not. It was getting to where I was paying more for professionals to come in and redo jobs after she had already paid the friend.
      I finally told her no more. We always go with people we don't know so we don't have to worry about business and private lives interfering.
      I like that approach,Kim.
      Fortunately,My wife does not friend easily.
      The neighbor/roofer were always a little stand -offish, wave only cause they had to types.
      Fine by Us.
      We are cordial and polite to all, and expect nothing in return except the same.
      If not,so be it.
      The decision was predicated on Angies list,BBB ratings,and price.
      He was good in all 3.
      And as I mentioned in an early post here, Almost ALL the homes in our subdivision are due for shingle replacement, and my wife knows/talks with Many.

      This ain't our first rodeo,either.
      We have been repairing and remodeling for 20 + years.
      Have had plenty of good, and bad ,contractors.
      Most of all, My wife is one tough customer.(lucky for me!)
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  • Profile picture of the author KimW
    Rob,
    I also use Angie's list,and using the same criteria as you, I have not been unhappy yet.
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