Would You Prefer Your Hand Cut Off or 35 Years in Prison?

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Assume you committed a crime and had two options for punishment: 35 years in prison or to have your hand cut off. Which would you choose?

There has been a lot of publicity about the suicide of Aaron Swartz, who created RSS and was a co-founder of Reddit. He was accused of hacking into MIT computers to steal scholarly documents. Reportedly, Swartz claimed since the research was publicly funded the documents should be publicly available.

There has been a lot of criticism of prosecutorial abuse and overreach in charging what could be viewed as a petty theft claim. Swartz was facing 35 years in prison. In other countries theft is punished by cutting of a hand.

Which would you prefer?

One-handed freedom or two-hands in prison?

I think I'll go for freedom.

.
  • Profile picture of the author MikeAmbrosio
    I don't know - perhaps a better lawyer?

    Probably freedom. You can get a prosthetic hand but you can't reclaim 35 years...
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    • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
      I think I'd prefer an acquittal.

      However if I didn't get one, I'd give up my left hand being right handed. Then I'd opt for a hook to replace it so I'd have a weapon and be intimidating if need be.

      Terra
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      • Profile picture of the author Frank Donovan
        Incarceration. I wouldn't want to be free in a society where such primitive acts of barbarism were enshrined in the judicial system.

        I'd gamble that the regime would get overthrown long before my 35 years were up.
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        • Profile picture of the author seasoned
          Originally Posted by Frank Donovan View Post

          Incarceration. I wouldn't want to be free in a society where such primitive acts of barbarism were enshrined in the judicial system.

          I'd gamble that the regime would get overthrown long before my 35 years were up.
          The society I was talking about was much in its current form even about 1300 years ago. SOME are a bit better but, even there, some prefer the OLD punishments.

          Steve
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        • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
          Banned
          Originally Posted by Frank Donovan View Post

          Incarceration. I wouldn't want to be free in a society where such primitive acts of barbarism were enshrined in the judicial system.

          I'd gamble that the regime would get overthrown long before my 35 years were up.
          Oooh, I was reading the thread thinking "surely nobody's going to choose the 35-year sentence?" and then someone did. And pretty well-reasoned, too. In a sense. Though if you don't want to be free in a society where such primitive acts of barbarism are enshrined in the justice system (and I wouldn't either) the answer is maybe to emigrate? And if the regime does fall before your 35 years are up, does that guarantee your release? Nah, I like your post but I still give up a hand ...
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          • Profile picture of the author Frank Donovan
            Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

            And if the regime does fall before your 35 years are up, does that guarantee your release?
            A lot can happen in 35 years. I could get a retrial. The law under which I was prosecuted could get repealed. Bono could take up my cause. I could escape. Planet X could annihilate the Earth...

            By accepting the removal of a hand, I'd be supporting the State's right to mutilate its citizens. Where does such a policy lead?

            Gotta take a stand. While I still have both feet.


            Frank
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            • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
              I'd say FU...you're not taking my hand OR my freedom and would fight to the
              death to protect both.

              This whole incident is just very disturbing. That's all I can say.
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              • Profile picture of the author Daniel Evans
                Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

                I'd say FU...you're not taking my hand OR my freedom and would fight to the
                death to protect both.

                This whole incident is just very disturbing. That's all I can say.
                My thoughts, bang on.
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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    Originally Posted by kindsvater View Post

    Assume you committed a crime and had two options for punishment: 35 years in prison or to have your hand cut off. Which would you choose?

    There has been a lot of publicity about the suicide of Aaron Swartz, who created RSS and was a co-founder of Reddit. He was accused of hacking into MIT computers to steal scholarly documents. Reportedly, Swartz claimed since the research was publicly funded the documents should be publicly available.

    There has been a lot of criticism of prosecutorial abuse and overreach in charging what could be viewed as a petty theft claim. Swartz was facing 35 years in prison. In other countries theft is punished by cutting of a hand.

    Which would you prefer?

    One-handed freedom or two-hands in prison?

    I think I'll go for freedom.

    .
    First of all, he DIDN'T create RSS! According to wikipedia, in line with what I remember:

    ", the first version of RSS, was created by Dan Libby and Ramanathan V. Guha at Netscape. It was released in March 1999 for use on the My.Netscape.Com portal. "

    There IS a second vrsion, that obviously came years later that is different, but even THAT is problematic. There was a fork down at least two totally different paths"

    If it were publically funded, he's RIGHT! Colleges/universities do WAY to much that borders on THEFT, etc.... One guy once went to a university, and I guess for his doctorate had to come up with a thesis....

    You guys may ALREADY know where I am going with this! His thesis was VERY valuable, but probably just collecting dust somewhere. It turns out that the university decided to reduce its interest in that area. Anyway, the student took his idea for a storage device, and ran with it. he even started a computer company. TO THIS DAY the term is used in SCIFI and with main frames, etc... IBM owes a lot of their success to it. Apparently JUST after it seemed all but dead, eventually it was replaced by ICs in the 1970s or so(They started in 1951), the university was challenging ownership claiming THEY owned the technology because of the thesis.

    Frankly I would want option C ALSO. I only know of ONE type of society that cuts off a persons hand for stealing, and I wouldn't want to live in that place ANYWAY!

    WOW, wikipedia says "Swartz was a member of the RSS-DEV Working Group that co-authored the "RSS 1.0" specification of RSS,[2] and built the Web site framework web.py and the architecture for the Open Library."

    So it says nothing about HIS creating RSS! The first RSS version was .9. I guss they just wanted to stay with the version number, etc... and didn't feel earlier versions were releasable. That is fairly common these days. Linux was pretty mature before v1 was a rumor.

    Steve
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  • Do I get to choose which hand? :rolleyes:

    Or choose the prison? (I'm going to Norway!)
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  • Profile picture of the author Dan Riffle
    If they take the hand, am I then entitled to disability payments?
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    Raising a child is akin to knowing you're getting fired in 18 years and having to train your replacement without actively sabotaging them.

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    • Profile picture of the author myob
      Some US states as well as the Feds actually do offer convicted criminals a choice for their punishment.

      Alabama, Florida, Ohio, South Carolina, Virginia: Lethal injection or electrocution

      Idaho, Utah: Lethal injection or firing squad

      California, Missouri: Lethal injection or gas chamber

      Washington: Lethal injection or hanging

      Federal Government: Lethal injection or option offered under the execution protocols of individual state jurisdiction.

      Most death row inmates enjoy several years or even decades of good food, good company, great entertainment, and free job/career training with full healthcare benefits. Anyone else would have to give an arm or a leg for such treatment.
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  • Profile picture of the author garyv
    Just because something was federally funded, does not mean that it belongs to the public. If that were the case I should be able to walk into any GM dealership and walk out with the auto of my choosing.

    That being said -- the "possible" punishment didn't fit the crime for sure. Especially when you consider that there are murderers walking around that have served less than half of that amount.


    To answer the original question - I would also give up my hand.
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  • Profile picture of the author RochelleK
    Hand cut off.
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    • Profile picture of the author Joe Mobley
      I have just about had it with hackers and the damage they cause. The disruption of peoples lives and business losses are inexcusable.

      My personal opinion is that there should be no choice. First offense for hacking, removal of the dominant hand... at the armpit.

      "So, that's why they call you lefty."

      Joe Mobley
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      .

      Follow Me on Twitter: @daVinciJoe
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    • Profile picture of the author myob
      Originally Posted by RochelleK View Post

      Hand cut off.
      Oh yeah, baby!

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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    I think I would let them have the right hand, then I would have a guitar pic prosthetically attached . Might not be the best finger picker anymore, but I wouldnt have anything better to do for the rest of my life then to become the world best flat picker, and wouldnt lose 35 years.
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    • Profile picture of the author Brandon Tanner
      Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

      I think I would let them have the right hand, then I would have a guitar pic prosthetically attached . Might not be the best finger picker anymore, but I wouldnt have anything better to do for the rest of my life then to become the world best flat picker, and wouldnt lose 35 years.
      No need to have 2 hands to play 1 guitar, John!

      (OK... perhaps it would be a necessity for 99.99999% of us mere mortals).

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  • Profile picture of the author Kurt
    Can I keep the hand? I'd like to take it to a taxidermist to get it mounted in a "flipping the bird" pose.
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  • Profile picture of the author waterotter
    Since a change of venue isn't viable, is deportation an option?

    Sometimes it pays to be a Canadian, eh?! :p


    j/k
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  • Profile picture of the author Lucian Lada
    What if, after choosing and executing the 35 years of prison, you lose a hand in say, an accident while building a new bookcase in your workshop? Now that would be disturbing.

    On a more serious note, although I haven't studied the US judicial system, I don't like their whole idea (well, the Common Law principle, to be more exact) of adding up sentences to a total. Theoretically, if one steals three times, and gets 7 years for each theft, one would get a total of 21 years in prison, but a person who shoots another person dead can get somewhere in that neighborhood. What's the logic? Clearly the thief is much less dangerous to the society than the murderer, but they get similar punishments.

    Of course, there are a lot of intricacies, probably some exemptions to the rule, and better chances that the theft could be released earlier on good behavior than the criminal, but still, the principle is not something I am fond of. I think the Civil Law's principle of adding an increment to the biggest punishment in case of multiple crimes is better. (Like a bonus, you know?)

    That's why I can't understand how the Reddit guy could have faced 35 years in prison for hacking a database ... (It's not like he leaked sensible or classified information.)
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  • Profile picture of the author RedShifted
    First thing I'd ask is 2 questions:

    1) Is it a mandatory 35 years or 35 years flat where you can be paroled in 10 years?

    2) In the country this "crime" was commited, how often and how regularly do they make changes to their legal system and laws? In America, laws are changed every single day and murderers with life are released based on loopholes in the system.

    So knowing a bit about the law that was broken, controversy behind the law, etc is really important. You may decide to chop your hand off than find out 2 years down the road that the law was changed and you would have been released.

    With that said, there is a story about a guy who got trapped in a mountain, and had to choose between death or chopping his own arm off.

    His arm was stuck to a rock, and this particular man slowly cut his own arm off. There is even a movie that was made about this called "127 hours". And it is one crazy movie to watch. The story is even crazier to read about online. This man cut his own arm off with a dull blade, and broke 2 bones in his elbow to detach the arm from his body... so he didn't die.

    So if it was a mandatory 35 years, thats a good portion of a persons life.
    Even if there was a chance of the legal system changing, I'm not sure I would bet on it.

    So as long as someone else was doing the chopping, I'd probably pick losing the hand. Then I'd write a book about it to fund my new robotic hand. =]

    And seriously, like most people said, the best decision is to fight both scenarios. Problem is that in the real world, that doesn't always work. It would be a tough decision, but as long as it wasn't my left hand (I'm a lefty) I'd have to go with decaputation here.

    -Red

    ps. If you want a really tough question this is one that me and my brother asked ourselves when we were kids. Even today you can stump 9 out of 10 people with this question:

    "If you had the choice to get doused in gasoline and lit on fire, or get thrown into a pack of hungry lions... which would you choose?"

    I know, its deep. I still haven't figured out which would be worse.
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