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A Place At The Table - One Nation. Underfed.

by MoneyMagnetMagnate
44 replies
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A Place at the Table (Official Movie Site) - Starring Jeff Bridges - In theatres, available on iTunes, and on demand March 1st - Trailer, Pictures & More

50 million people in the U.S. – one in four children -don't know where their next meal is coming from, despite our having the means to provide nutritious, affordable food for all Americans. Directors Kristi Jacobson and Lori Silverbush examine this issue through the lens of three people for who are struggling with food insecurity: Barbie, a single Philadelphia mother who grew up in poverty and is trying to provide a better life for her two kids; Rosie, a Colorado second-grader who often has to depend on friends and neighbors to feed her and has trouble concentrating in school; and Tremonica, a Mississippi second-grader whose asthma and health issues are exacerbated by the largely empty calories her hardworking mother can afford.

Their stories are interwoven with insights from experts including sociologist Janet Poppendieck, author Raj Patel and nutrition policy leader Marion Nestle; ordinary citizens like Pastor Bob Wilson and teachers Leslie Nichols and Odessa Cherry; and activists such as Witness to Hunger's Mariana Chilton, Top Chef's Tom Colicchio and Oscar®-winning actor Jeff Bridges.

Ultimately, "A Place at the Table" shows us how hunger poses serious economic, social and cultural implications for our nation, and that it could be solved once and for all, if the American public decides - as they have in the past - that making healthy food available and affordable is in the best interest of us all.

  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Won't happen. People have been indoctrinated into consumerism. They scream their faces off over anyone being given anything. There is a predominant sentiment - even now with jobs closing by the thousands every day - that anyone poor is worthless, lazy, moochie. They will allow the gov to take billions to hand to banks, but insist on a poor person getting anything to make their life livable - no freaking way.

    Thousands were given phones and the public foamed at the mouth over it, yet do you realize how hard it is to get a job without one? It's rare to be hired right there and then because of the insistence on background checks. They have to call you later.

    If a business man takes advantage of tax breaks, he's smart. If a person takes advantage of food stamps they are a low life mooch. Of course, jobs are so overwhelmingly plentiful, if they really wanted to eat they'd be employed, right.

    Now school lunches, thanks to our insightful admin, have had the calorie content slashed.......the food is still often no better than your average fast food - loaded with the chemicals that make people retain weight -- but hey, they are only eating half as much of it.

    This is a very sick in the head country (maybe as much from the 3,000 poisons in our food as from indoctination) and nobody is going to do squat about any of it until people are living in dirt and dying on the sidewalks.
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    Sal
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      Sal -

      I don't understand your arguments. You say repeatedly that govt is bad, they are intrusive, we are heading for disaster.

      But then say the govt programs are not big enough and don't pay enough?

      We've gone from 30% of the populace on govt programs to 50%. What happens when it reaches 60-70-80%? The worst thing about most of the govt programs is they have no end point. They aren't temporary help - they become a way of life. It's unsustainable.

      It was found 40% of the cell phones handed out were to people who didn't qualify to get them. Of course, there's no tracking to see if anyone who got the free phones is using it to get a job.
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      • Profile picture of the author HeySal
        Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

        Sal -

        I don't understand your arguments. You say repeatedly that govt is bad, they are intrusive, we are heading for disaster.

        But then say the govt programs are not big enough and don't pay enough?

        We've gone from 30% of the populace on govt programs to 50%. What happens when it reaches 60-70-80%? The worst thing about most of the govt programs is they have no end point. They aren't temporary help - they become a way of life. It's unsustainable.

        It was found 40% of the cell phones handed out were to people who didn't qualify to get them. Of course, there's no tracking to see if anyone who got the free phones is using it to get a job.
        First off - don't take me wrong. I think the welfare program has gone way too far. When people drop babies simply for more money, the system is flawed in the extreme. When people actually wanting to get jobs, but they take so much of the help away from those who try to stand on their own, the system is flawed. When the system is so rigged that people will fight to stay OFF of it because they know once inside it they are trapped like rats, the system is flawed. When generations of a family see it as a way of life, the system is flawed.

        When food is denied to people in need, the people running the system need to be arrested or at least fired. Look at Bloomberg denying food to Sandy victims. Just the other day the gov stepped in and destroyed 1,600 lbs of venison donated to the homeless. This following incident is just a crime and nothing else.
        La. health officials destroy 1,600 pounds of venison donated to homeless shelter - Washington Times

        Yes, I think the gov goes too far when they have decided they can take fresh food right out of our mouths when it's given, just because it didn't come from them. It's criminal - it's slavery.

        We need to fix this system - there's not one doubt about that.
        But we shouldn't, can't, just let people starve......especially at a time that the job market is collapsing. You'd be starving people out of work through no fault of their own. Once jobs start opening up again - welfare should be a means to find work, not to live without doing so.

        So you are willing to allow this country to start looking like Etheopia with people dying in the streets because they are costing some money at a time when illegal immigrants are being handed everything free? At a time that the same money that could be putting us into a boom economy is being used to fund World Bank puppets and theives? "They" are going to keep taking all your money regardless of what they are doing with it. I would just as soon see it go to feed the hungry than to buy another CEO of another financial institution his next sports car.

        We are in crisis and until we can get the cause of the crises out of office - and get the FED out from our money system, we need to take care of those who get hit in this war on our citizens. We can figure out the rest later on.
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        • Profile picture of the author seasoned
          Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

          First off - don't take me wrong. I think the welfare program has gone way too far. When people drop babies simply for more money, the system is flawed in the extreme. When people actually wanting to get jobs, but they take so much of the help away from those who try to stand on their own, the system is flawed. When the system is so rigged that people will fight to stay OFF of it because they know once inside it they are trapped like rats, the system is flawed. When generations of a family see it as a way of life, the system is flawed.
          MY POINT EXACTLY!!!!!

          When food is denied to people in need, the people running the system need to be arrested or at least fired. Look at Bloomberg denying food to Sandy victims. Just the other day the gov stepped in and destroyed 1,600 lbs of venison donated to the homeless. This following incident is just a crime and nothing else.
          La. health officials destroy 1,600 pounds of venison donated to homeless shelter - Washington Times

          Yes, I think the gov goes too far when they have decided they can take fresh food right out of our mouths when it's given, just because it didn't come from them. It's criminal - it's slavery.
          It's THEFT!!!!! HOW is deer dangerous? SE danger? NOPE! There IS a definite threat of SE with COWS, but we still get THAT! With DEER, it is thought to be IMPOSSIBLE! LYME disease? OK, MICROWAVE it, or COOK IT! That is unlikely anyway, since they are on the skin, and DON'T like dead animals. Salmonella? If it was fresh, or properly handled, the risk is LOWER than with beef!

          But what do you expect? I heard of a similar incident with school kids because it didn't meet NY guidelines. Also, in NY, when kids have birthday parties at restaurants, they have to buy a separate cup for everyone! Costs go up! Pollution goes up! Inconvenience goes up! WHY? Because they are afraid that every 4oz of drink might increase the childs weight by as much as .21oz! So they can have a 16oz soda that might increase their weight .84oz, but NOT a 32oz one that might increase it by 1.68oz! And you absolutely can NOT get a maybe 64oz pitcher for the group!

          We need to fix this system - there's not one doubt about that.
          But we shouldn't, can't, just let people starve......especially at a time that the job market is collapsing. You'd be starving people out of work through no fault of their own. Once jobs start opening up again - welfare should be a means to find work, not to live without doing so.
          EXACTLY!

          So you are willing to allow this country to start looking like Etheopia with people dying in the streets because they are costing some money at a time when illegal immigrants are being handed everything free? At a time that the same money that could be putting us into a boom economy is being used to fund World Bank puppets and theives? "They" are going to keep taking all your money regardless of what they are doing with it. I would just as soon see it go to feed the hungry than to buy another CEO of another financial institution his next sports car.
          I don't think she wanted that AT ALL!!!!! And I DON'T EITHER!

          We are in crisis and until we can get the cause of the crises out of office - and get the FED out from our money system, we need to take care of those who get hit in this war on our citizens. We can figure out the rest later on.
          EXACTLY! And if taxes were lower, more could make donations and help. There was a LOT of garbage with the last charity I worked with, but they TRIED to keep it down. They only took people recommended. You couldn't simply come off the street and say "I'm poor, HELP ME".

          Steve
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          • Profile picture of the author Kay King
            A woman in Illinois complained on a show a couple weeks ago that she can't get off welfare.

            So we say - SEE - it's invasive, it keeps you down.

            What was her problem? The amount she received in checks from various govt programs (federal and state) and free services...was over $80k a year! Of course she couldn't get off the dole - she had no education, no job skills, no work history. Her complaint was that jobs didn't pay enough to be worth taking. Interesting train of thought, isn't it?

            We have to feed those who can't feed themselves but the system we are using isn't an efficient one and any effort to change it results in screams of people claiming we want people to starve.

            We have post offices in every little burg in the country - why can't we have food banks where people who NEED food can get food for their family once a week - without junk food or empty calories or the ability to sell a food card to get cash for something else? We're closing a lot of those little post offices - why can't the buildings be repurposed as food banks or homeless shelters?

            We have a bad habit of starting a program and allowing it to run away in spending and waste as it grows. There should be only ONE govt agency in charge of entitlement programs for the poor so the help could go where most needed and the abuse would be easier to control. No program - whether food or welfare - should be open ended. No one should be able to enroll in one training program after another after another at govt expense - or to assume every new baby is a new paycheck.
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            • Profile picture of the author seasoned
              Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

              A woman in Illinois complained on a show a couple weeks ago that she can't get off welfare.

              So we say - SEE - it's invasive, it keeps you down.

              What was her problem? The amount she received in checks from various govt programs (federal and state) and free services...was over $80k a year! Of course she couldn't get off the dole - she had no education, no job skills, no work history. Her complaint was that jobs didn't pay enough to be worth taking. Interesting train of thought, isn't it?

              We have to feed those who can't feed themselves but the system we are using isn't an efficient one and any effort to change it results in screams of people claiming we want people to starve.

              We have post offices in every little burg in the country - why can't we have food banks where people who NEED food can get food for their family once a week - without junk food or empty calories or the ability to sell a food card to get cash for something else? We're closing a lot of those little post offices - why can't the buildings be repurposed as food banks or homeless shelters?

              We have a bad habit of starting a program and allowing it to run away in spending and waste as it grows. There should be only ONE govt agency in charge of entitlement programs for the poor so the help could go where most needed and the abuse would be easier to control. No program - whether food or welfare - should be open ended. No one should be able to enroll in one training program after another after another at govt expense - or to assume every new baby is a new paycheck.
              HECK, we COULD reduce the costs and complexities of education and say that we will support a poor person through reasonable education, and actually PAY him/her to IMPROVE! THEN, they can be paid for a viable job, and the payback can come from taxes, etc...

              Denmark did a study once. When they reduced unemployment times, the time to getting a viable job DROPPED! By spending LESS money, EVERYONE benefited!

              And that IS a thought! EARLIER, they had soup kitchens, etc... The poor can get fed without having a lot of money for things like cigarettes, etc....

              I hate to bring up a movie or series again, but it is like with winchester on a mash christmas show. Everyone considered him an arrogant, stingy SNOB! He got a HUGE care package, and people thought it was for HIM, etc... He gave VERY nice chocolates, gormet food, etc.... to an orphanage for christmas, as was his families custom. Well, he found that this stuff ended up on the black market! He was APPALLED and confronted the caretaker after finding the children didn't get the nice gifts. and what did the caretaker say? "All that food was nice, and the children really would have appreciated it for a moment. But they needed shoes, and food, etc.... Your gifts brought us a lot of money so we could get what they NEEDED!". Winchester felt far better, but probably felt best when his BIGGEST detractor, hearing what happened, gave him a piece of cake he managed to save.

              Steve
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      Won't happen. People have been indoctrinated into consumerism. They scream their faces off over anyone being given anything. There is a predominant sentiment - even now with jobs closing by the thousands every day - that anyone poor is worthless, lazy, moochie. They will allow the gov to take billions to hand to banks, but insist on a poor person getting anything to make their life livable - no freaking way.

      Thousands were given phones and the public foamed at the mouth over it, yet do you realize how hard it is to get a job without one? It's rare to be hired right there and then because of the insistence on background checks. They have to call you later.

      If a business man takes advantage of tax breaks, he's smart. If a person takes advantage of food stamps they are a low life mooch. Of course, jobs are so overwhelmingly plentiful, if they really wanted to eat they'd be employed, right.

      Now school lunches, thanks to our insightful admin, have had the calorie content slashed.......the food is still often no better than your average fast food - loaded with the chemicals that make people retain weight -- but hey, they are only eating half as much of it.

      This is a very sick in the head country (maybe as much from the 3,000 poisons in our food as from indoctination) and nobody is going to do squat about any of it until people are living in dirt and dying on the sidewalks.
      OK, are you REALLY heysal, or someone that hacked the account? My FATHER is using what he THINKS is medicare! It recently had over 700BILLION STOLEN from it! Although he and MANY others paid into it, he will soon find that the medicare ADVANTAGE that he is REALLY using will DISAPPEAR, because THAT is where the billions came from!

      My mother, and several others I polled, got, or are getting, roughly $1000/month for SSI that THEY paid into! The government ripped them off SO much that they are TOTALLY broke! That was OUR money, or what is LEFT of it! NOW, many say that I, and MILLIONS LIKE ME, won't get a PENNY!!!!!!!!!!! Don't worry, YOU are on the other side, and WILL get the MEAGER amount!

      So WHO can blame me for being AGAINST a poor person getting $81,000/year($6750/month folks) *****TAX FREE***** just because she makes only $19,000 and has 2 kids? BTW the $19000 was ALSO made tax free!

      Am I against them getting a hand up? NO WAY! I, MYSELF, have helped in EVERY way!
      Am I against helping the poor get through it? NO WAY! And I HAVE helped!
      Am I against helping the disabled? NO WAY! AGAIN, I have helped through money and OTHER means!
      Am I against helping the moochers trying to game the system? HECK YEAH! They are thieves no less that the ones that stole stuff from 12 homes(INCLUDING MINE) one day while I was having lunch with my mother at a restaurant several years ago.

      BTW do I like all the bailing out of banks? NOPE! I am NOT a banker!

      Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author Kurt
    Originally Posted by MoneyMagnetMagnate View Post

    I saw the two woman behind this on Colbert last night.

    They brought up some interesting points. The hunger problem was solved in the late 1970's in a matter of weeks. However, in about 1980 people started changing their opinion of people needing help, the programs were eliminated and instead of caring about the hungry, they were called "freeloaders" and "hand out seekers".

    At the same time, people in the US started thinking the gov was bad and couldn't fix anything and that the private sector was the solution. Well, we've had over 30 years of this train of thought and the simple truth is, the private sector and charities simply can't handle the problem of hunger in the US, it's simply too big of a job.

    History shows the US gov can fix this and the private sector can't. Meanwhile, kids and the elderly go hungry while billion dollar corps get bailouts and tax cuts.

    If you don't want to feed these people, fine. Just quit lying to yourself that the private sector can fix it. It's been 30 years already. It's time to wake up.
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    • Profile picture of the author MoneyMagnetMagnate
      Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

      I saw the two woman behind this on Colbert last night.
      I saw them too, that was my reason for posting this, to raise awareness about the movie - if it worked once - maybe it can work again
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

      I saw the two woman behind this on Colbert last night.

      They brought up some interesting points. The hunger problem was solved in the late 1970's in a matter of weeks. However, in about 1980 people started changing their opinion of people needing help, the programs were eliminated and instead of caring about the hungry, they were called "freeloaders" and "hand out seekers".

      At the same time, people in the US started thinking the gov was bad and couldn't fix anything and that the private sector was the solution. Well, we've had over 30 years of this train of thought and the simple truth is, the private sector and charities simply can't handle the problem of hunger in the US, it's simply too big of a job.

      History shows the US gov can fix this and the private sector can't. Meanwhile, kids and the elderly go hungry while billion dollar corps get bailouts and tax cuts.

      If you don't want to feed these people, fine. Just quit lying to yourself that the private sector can fix it. It's been 30 years already. It's time to wake up.
      You are DREAMING! The government policies were put in place in like the 30s, and they have been expanded and expanded and expanded! They NEVER reduce! The hunger problem wasn't solved in the 70s, and we had stagflation to boot. People lost their homes! Troubles in the middle east ended up coming to a head. And as long as the poor but able get paid a lot of money, they will never accept a job paying minimum wage, or anything close to it, and the problem will get WORSE! AND IT HAS! HECK, the 2008 crises happened because of that! You can blame the banks etc......

      1. Blame derivatives? They could NEVER exist UNLESS.....
      2. Blame the bonds? They could NEVER exist UNLESS......
      3. Blame the mortgages? THEY could NEVER exist UNLESS.....
      4. Blame the mortgagees? AW YEAH! So many poor people that KNEW they couldn't afford them!

      And EVEN if all that were wrong, WHERE would you get the money? If the top 10 american billionares took EVERY penny they have on paper, and paid it towards the debt, it wouldn't make a DENT! and they really DON'T have that much money.

      Now I am not laying ALL the blame at the feet of the American welfare moochers... I have been complaining for a LONG time about manufacturing moving away, and illegal aliens moving in, etc.... So our ability to produce real jobs has gone DOWN as the need has gone UP. What do you EXPECT to happen?

      Steve
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      • Profile picture of the author Kurt
        Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

        You are DREAMING! The government policies were put in place in like the 30s, and they have been expanded and expanded and expanded! They NEVER reduce! The hunger problem wasn't solved in the 70s, and we had stagflation to boot. People lost their homes! Troubles in the middle east ended up coming to a head. And as long as the poor but able get paid a lot of money, they will never accept a job paying minimum wage, or anything close to it, and the problem will get WORSE! AND IT HAS! HECK, the 2008 crises happened because of that! You can blame the banks etc......

        1. Blame derivatives? They could NEVER exist UNLESS.....
        2. Blame the bonds? They could NEVER exist UNLESS......
        3. Blame the mortgages? THEY could NEVER exist UNLESS.....
        4. Blame the mortgagees? AW YEAH! So many poor people that KNEW they couldn't afford them!

        And EVEN if all that were wrong, WHERE would you get the money? If the top 10 american billionares took EVERY penny they have on paper, and paid it towards the debt, it wouldn't make a DENT! and they really DON'T have that much money.

        Now I am not laying ALL the blame at the feet of the American welfare moochers... I have been complaining for a LONG time about manufacturing moving away, and illegal aliens moving in, etc.... So our ability to produce real jobs has gone DOWN as the need has gone UP. What do you EXPECT to happen?

        Steve
        STOP lying to yourself! If you'd rather people starve and pay for prisons you're a bigger fool than I thought. But quit pretending nothing can be done to protect your own lack of initiative.

        The billionaire's can't pay for the deficit if faulty logic. You/it assumes the money billionaires make is static. Truth is, they can pay a little more per year, year after year. And, taxes are also paid by people that aren't millionaires, corps., etc.

        Plus, for the cost of the unneeded and unjustified Iraq war, the USA could have fed every hungry person on the planet. I wonder how feeding people food with a little American flag on it would have done for our national security over the long-haul?

        Your use of "moochers" is an INSULT! No wonder you were bullied as a kid. Some deserve it!!!!!!!!!!

        BTW, 99% of your post is a red herring and has NOTHING to do with the subject. I didn't blame anyone or anything, other than people that think like you. It's YOUR thought process that needs to change, nothing else!!!! YOU are the problem!!!!!!!!!!! At least have a spine and admit it.
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      • Profile picture of the author Kurt
        Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

        You are DREAMING! The government policies were put in place in like the 30s, and they have been expanded and expanded and expanded!

        And the life expectancy and standard of living has also expanded over the same period of time, while the number of seniors living in popularity and dramatically decreased. You forgot to mention that part.

        No need for us to argue. I'll just put in you the "don't give a damn" category.
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        • Profile picture of the author seasoned
          Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

          And the life expectancy and standard of living has also expanded over the same period of time, while the number of seniors living in popularity and dramatically decreased. You forgot to mention that part.

          No need for us to argue. I'll just put in you the "don't give a damn" category.
          Well, making it even worse doesn't really change things. It was bad enough before that. Of course this is NOT X+Y+z*(increase in le). It is X+Y+((Y+Z)*(increase in le))

          But whatever...

          Steve
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    • Profile picture of the author whateverpedia
      Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

      It's time to wake up.
      Thirty years of tax cuts, tax cuts, tax cuts has really paid dividends for American society hasn't it? [/sarcasm]
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      • Profile picture of the author Kay King
        The extreme rich - and I am talking about the EXTREME rich, own most of everything on the planet and just keep taking and they are doing it at the expense of most of the people on the planet. I refuse to feel bad for saying that Rothschild should have most of their money seized and "redistributed".
        That's scary to me. If someone as smart as you is buying into the recent "rich are bad" scenario....that is truly frightening. It tells me the political hype and misdirection is working for the pols. It's a deep pit and we're in danger of falling to the bottom of it if we buy into the rhetoric and fear mongering.

        The "rich" don't owe me a damned thing. It's up to me to make MY life and MY money and MY own version of success or failure. This new societal idea being promoted is "we are OWED by the rich". It's a true entitlement mentality - and reverse class system that presents those who have earned less, accomplished less, paid less as "most" deserving.

        The rich could pay more - but it will never be enough. I think some would love to seize the money of the rich. Would it be ok to go into their homes and take their couch because it's better than mine? No? Why is it acceptable to take their wealth because you want it?

        The land of opportunity is rapidly becoming the land of greed and envy. It's not pretty.

        Redistribution is a socialistic ideal but the truth is within a few years there would again be rich and poor. Do you keep redistributing whenever one group achieves wealth again? Why would anyone bother to succeed under such a system?
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        • Profile picture of the author seasoned
          Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

          That's scary to me. If someone as smart as you is buying into the recent "rich are bad" scenario....that is truly frightening. It tells me the political hype and misdirection is working for the pols. It's a deep pit and we're in danger of falling to the bottom of it if we buy into the rhetoric and fear mongering.

          The "rich" don't owe me a damned thing. It's up to me to make MY life and MY money and MY own version of success or failure. This new societal idea being promoted is "we are OWED by the rich". It's a true entitlement mentality - and reverse class system that presents those who have earned less, accomplished less, paid less as "most" deserving.

          The rich could pay more - but it will never be enough. I think some would love to seize the money of the rich. Would it be ok to go into their homes and take their couch because it's better than mine? No? Why is it acceptable to take their wealth because you want it?

          The land of opportunity is rapidly becoming the land of greed and envy. It's not pretty.

          Redistribution is a socialistic ideal but the truth is within a few years there would again be rich and poor. Do you keep redistributing whenever one group achieves wealth again? Why would anyone bother to succeed under such a system?
          As far as I see it there are, discounting the OTHER scum(the 2 or three remaining "classes"), at least 4 classes.

          1. Poor
          2. Middle class.
          3. very rich.
          4. Political "upper class"

          Although not often recognized, and maybe not "officially" so, heysal was talking about that 4th one. The average person there is a multimillionaire, and there are a good number of billionaires there. As far as I am concerned most of that money IS stolen! and MUCH is stolen by claiming that they will do so much good.

          But yeah, money is ONLY good because people can spend it! THAT is because others are willing to ACCEPT it! They accept it to spend it or accumulate it to spend LATER. Take 100% of their money with NO return, and they will cease to accept. If nobody accepts, it becomes WORTHLESS!!!!!!!

          Steve
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        • Profile picture of the author HeySal
          Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

          That's scary to me. If someone as smart as you is buying into the recent "rich are bad" scenario....that is truly frightening. It tells me the political hype and misdirection is working for the pols. It's a deep pit and we're in danger of falling to the bottom of it if we buy into the rhetoric and fear mongering.

          The "rich" don't owe me a damned thing. It's up to me to make MY life and MY money and MY own version of success or failure. This new societal idea being promoted is "we are OWED by the rich". It's a true entitlement mentality - and reverse class system that presents those who have earned less, accomplished less, paid less as "most" deserving.

          The rich could pay more - but it will never be enough. I think some would love to seize the money of the rich. Would it be ok to go into their homes and take their couch because it's better than mine? No? Why is it acceptable to take their wealth because you want it?

          The land of opportunity is rapidly becoming the land of greed and envy. It's not pretty.

          Redistribution is a socialistic ideal but the truth is within a few years there would again be rich and poor. Do you keep redistributing whenever one group achieves wealth again? Why would anyone bother to succeed under such a system?
          Kay - I didn't say any rich person -- I said the EXTREME rich that got that way by stealing, enslaving, and murdering the people. The Rothschild's have funded both sides of every war for how long now? They've been supporters of genocide. They own the Central bank that manipulates money illegally in a fashion that has put millions into streets starving. They've funded most fascist leaders.

          That's not just rich --- that is CRIMINAL...........and that's the difference for me. I don't mind anyone getting rich - but to do so on the blood of thousands or millions is slaughter and I'm sorry (not) -- But people who slaughter for wealth don't deserve ANYTHING but a jail cell.
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          • Profile picture of the author thunderbird
            Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

            Kay - I didn't say any rich person -- I said the EXTREME rich that got that way by stealing, enslaving, and murdering the people. The Rothschild's have funded both sides of every war for how long now? They've been supporters of genocide. They own the Central bank that manipulates money illegally in a fashion that has put millions into streets starving. They've funded most fascist leaders.

            That's not just rich --- that is CRIMINAL...........and that's the difference for me. I don't mind anyone getting rich - but to do so on the blood of thousands or millions is slaughter and I'm sorry (not) -- But people who slaughter for wealth don't deserve ANYTHING but a jail cell.
            You're referring to the Illooterati, despised by Ayn Rand.
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            • Profile picture of the author Kay King
              The problem is - who is qualified to decide which rich person is rich enough - or which rich family didn't get rich in the right way?

              Many extremely wealthy people have robber barons in their family tree - but is that the descendant's fault? How does taking from them to give to the poor differ from the ongoing arguments about "reparations" for slavery?

              If we start pointing to people and saying "that person doesn't deserve his extreme wealth" - and then take it to give to others WE deem as "more deserving"....we'd have to rewrite a few things like the Constitution and the Bill of Rights and the laws that govern the country.

              The super rich would quickly find a better place to live - and to keep and spend their money. Then it would become increasingly difficult to find sources of wealth to keep feeding the masses with their hands out for freebies and "their share".

              Following the path in Ayn Rand style - how long before anyone earning more than $50k would be required to turn over the excess to the govt for "redistribution to the poor"? Where would the motivation be to build a thriving business or create the next great product - why bother if you can't reap the benefits but are required to share with others who have not put in the time/money/work?

              When you talk about taking wealth from one entity in order to GIVE it to another, it's a premise that violates everything we were founded on.
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              • Profile picture of the author HeySal
                Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                The problem is - who is qualified to decide which rich person is rich enough - or which rich family didn't get rich in the right way?

                Many extremely wealthy people have robber barons in their family tree - but is that the descendant's fault? How does taking from them to give to the poor differ from the ongoing arguments about "reparations" for slavery?
                Rich enough is NOT the point. Criminal enough is the point. I'm not talking about families who gained their wealth historically - I'm talking about those who are raking it in at the present time via criminal actions. I don't care how LITTLE rich is when it's got massive amounts of blood attached to it.
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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    Actually, a lot of criminals were let out of jail yesterday. I guess they have to be recaught at some point. They pulled this garbage in 1978 also! THAT time it was in CA! NOW, apparently, it was the entire country. BOTH times they LIED BIG TIME! I hope somebody PAYS NOW!

    My OWN lack of initiative? I paid money, donated food, helped at a food kitchen, provided help with shelter, helped counsel. So what initiative do you want? Sell all and give it to them to feed them for a day? YOU FIRST!

    Feeding all, even with a flag wouldn't have helped us, but the great grandchildren of young people on this forum will likely have to pay for expenses up to this point. So who would REALLY have paid for that food anyway?

    Moochers was a descriptive term. Should I have said "lazy do-nothings that lived off social security while not doing anything, even though they were fully capable of at least ATTEMPTING to get gainful employment"? Referring to those on it because they simply don't want to work.

    If I changed the way I thought about things in this regard it didn't help AT ALL!!!!!!!! NOTE, INTENTIONAL odd tenses, since I used to never consider that such people existed. After hearing about MILLIONS of them, and personally meeting HUNDREDS, my views DID change! That ALSO invalidates your claim as to bullying.

    NICE TRY!

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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Ah - I see where you're coming from now, Kay.

    What I can't figure out is how these people get something like 80K a year. I've known many a woman who ended up on welfare when their husbands ditched them. (doesn't happen as much now with DNA testing and accountability). They were making barely enough to survive, and if they wanted to take a job so much of the help they were getting was completely cut off that they would be in the streets if they took the job -- and that's just wrong. It actually creates a slave class.

    I do know that people who are starving aren't going to get jobs though. They can't think clearly, look like....well...like they are starving to death, their energy is low so they aren't going to produce well. The hungrier they get - the less likely they will be able to get up and do anything. If people have to live in tents - that's one thing, but having enough to eat is a necessity plain and simple. And if it weren't for World bank and their cronies - everyone COULD have enough to eat.

    The extreme rich - and I am talking about the EXTREME rich, own most of everything on the planet and just keep taking and they are doing it at the expense of most of the people on the planet. I refuse to feel bad for saying that Rothschild should have most of their money seized and "redistributed". When you consider how many lives it cost for that family to get that rich, it's time for them to just be forceably liquidated. That family has been the cause of more murder and suffering than any other thing on this planet.....EVER. Half of their wealth would still keep them in the bracket of one of the richest on earth.........and it would allow every other human on this planet to eat decently. I'm not normally a proponent of "wealth redistribution" - but in their case and in the case of any other person who got rich on the blood of hordes of other people........take their funds. They are criminals.
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      Ah - I see where you're coming from now, Kay.

      What I can't figure out is how these people get something like 80K a year. I've known many a woman who ended up on welfare when their husbands ditched them. (doesn't happen as much now with DNA testing and accountability). They were making barely enough to survive, and if they wanted to take a job so much of the help they were getting was completely cut off that they would be in the streets if they took the job -- and that's just wrong. It actually creates a slave class.
      BOTH methods create a slave class! But the government doesn't just GIVE you the money. There are ALL SORTS of ways to get money. It is like one family I know where the mother went to get money for education, and used the money to move from florida to california. You can get money for kids, for various things for kids, for programs to brake addictions, for education, and there are MANY welfare programs(They do the same thing for different reasons). And MANY pay CASH or are transferable, etc.... They should have some central office that tracks it. It would be a WIN/WIN! Those that REALLY need the money GET IT! Tax payers will spend less. Right now, it is ALL OVER! My mother had to go to like three places to pay for long term care. and like three places to pay for cremation. The ads on TV didn't help! They advertise that the government pays $250+ for funerals! *****THEY DON'T***** unless you are a surviving current spouse, or a child no older than 21!

      I do know that people who are starving aren't going to get jobs though. They can't think clearly, look like....well...like they are starving to death, their energy is low so they aren't going to produce well. The hungrier they get - the less likely they will be able to get up and do anything. If people have to live in tents - that's one thing, but having enough to eat is a necessity plain and simple. And if it weren't for World bank and their cronies - everyone COULD have enough to eat.
      Yeah. ALSO, many places won't consider skills on your resume unless you can show a work history within the last six months! The charity where I had to help out most physically was one that actually arranged with churches and synagogues to have those centers used as shelters for the poor. They were also fed, provided with clothes if they needed them, provided with job finding assistance, and given access to showers, and even clothes if they needed them. With enough assistance, it doesn't require much to really put a dent in the problem. But the idea is NOT so much to feed them for a day, but rather work towards getting them to feed themselves!

      The extreme rich - and I am talking about the EXTREME rich, own most of everything on the planet and just keep taking and they are doing it at the expense of most of the people on the planet. I refuse to feel bad for saying that Rothschild should have most of their money seized and "redistributed". When you consider how many lives it cost for that family to get that rich, it's time for them to just be forceably liquidated. That family has been the cause of more murder and suffering than any other thing on this planet.....EVER. Half of their wealth would still keep them in the bracket of one of the richest on earth.........and it would allow every other human on this planet to eat decently. I'm not normally a proponent of "wealth redistribution" - but in their case and in the case of any other person who got rich on the blood of hordes of other people........take their funds. They are criminals.
      Well, they ARE rich, and guilty. But apparently there are a good number that are.

      Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author MoneyMagnetMagnate
    Wait - where did this subject get off the tract? We are a country that has homeless, hungry people that we do not address - I hate to be the bad guy in this congress - but we have a problem we don't addeess - and I am apolitical. Idon't care who fixes the problem- just fix it.
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    • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
      Seems like when the subject of the poor comes up these days the poor get blamed and the rich become the victim, unless the rich are part of the illuminati. Then we end up talking about endless conspiracy theories.
      Originally Posted by MoneyMagnetMagnate View Post

      Wait - where did this subject get off the tract? We are a country that has homeless, hungry people that we do not address - I hate to be the bad guy in this congress - but we have a problem we don't addeess - and I am apolitical. Idon't care who fixes the problem- just fix it.
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill View Post

    The question is why don't we have community gardens, rooftop gardens, patio gardens, container gardens, vertical gardens, window gardens, hydroponic gardens in apartment buildings?

    Isn't it much better if we have the know-how and the wherewithal to feed ourselves?

    Why aren't our prisons producing food for the needy?

    I've given up hope of getting the churches off their asses and feeding the hungry, They're too busy channeling money into building funds.
    Corporate dictated America is trying to shut down healthy organic farms -- because,,,,,wahhh,,,,,,,Monsanto wants a monopoly on food. Food for the poor is being seized or destroyed and people get arrested for trying to feed the poor. If it's not from the gov so they can control what we put in our bodies, it isn't allowed.

    That's one of the examples of what I am saying - Monsanto GMO's have been proven harmful to people and the environment - enough so that they are getting kicked out of country after country - our meat is now poisonous enough that other countries refuse to buy it - our health care system is bleeding every cent out of people while letting them die of things cures to have been suppressed - so healthy food is being sequestered at every opportunity they get - and they are getting the chance by installing their execs into our gov. They need to be in jail instead of out buying new rolls royces with their blood money.
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      Rothschild Crime Syndicate owes you $100 Trillion in restitution for wars, depressions, inflations, monopoly and everything else they have done since in the last two centuries --
      The most wealthy bloodline in the world bar none and the leader of the Ashkenazi ... or any of the names listed above are part of the Rothschild criminal network.
      Very popular topic on blogs like citizenamerica, tobefree, renegadesblog, and on and on. A lot of hatred and half facts and "proof" - or at least a piece of truth that suits the blogger's view.

      I understand some people feel this way about the very wealthy - but it does seem self serving when the remedy they come up with is "give us the money".

      Too much hatred and energy spewed on causes like this for me - so I avoid them.
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      • Profile picture of the author HeySal
        Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

        Very popular topic on blogs like citizenamerica, tobefree, renegadesblog, and on and on. A lot of hatred and half facts and "proof" - or at least a piece of truth that suits the blogger's view.

        I understand some people feel this way about the very wealthy - but it does seem self serving when the remedy they come up with is "give us the money".

        Too much hatred and energy spewed on causes like this for me - so I avoid them.
        IF you think the proof for Rothschild's murder empire is only partial you have blinders on. I'm not sure what you don't "get" about the fact that corporate owned media is not going to spew the truth about the FED owners into your livingroom. Kennedy tried - and look what it got him - and there have been others with the same results.

        Taking Rothschild's money is not "give us the money" -- it's "give us back what you stole from us" - "give us back what we spent for that phony war that you killed so many in and made so much profit from".

        Understand the difference between not wanting to rob rich people and taking your money (and freedom for that matter) back from a thief - a thief who would just as soon kill you as look at you. That family has trillions and they got almost every cent of it shedding blood and/or stealing - and you are commiserating with them because you don't like the sources of the info. Perhaps if you make fast friends with people in high level media that you seem to still feel is a "credible" source, they will tell you off-record some of what they know but are not allowed to print. You are going to die ill and broke waiting for what used to be a free press to give you the truth - you're going to have to learn which of the sources you seem to feel are not credible WILL give you the truth - or enough of it to advance your own research. Or just stay poor and wait to find out exactly what your owners have in store for ya. If I were you I'd start to check out that corexit they are STILL dispersing into that water body so near your house complements of those nice rich criminals we should be so respectful of. If that's not a reality check for you - then I don't know what will be.
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        • Profile picture of the author Kay King
          I've known the history of that family for years - studied it in a social history class and again in a class that focused on economic development of the country.

          I have no admiration for the families - and no admiration for the bloggers who seem to think you can erase history if you redistribute the wealth from those families.

          I's my choice not to expend energy hating people I don't know and will never meet or passing jugement about criminal activity when I'm not qualified to do that. I can dislike someone's actions and history without being angry about it.
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        • Profile picture of the author whateverpedia
          Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

          Taking Rothschild's money is not "give us the money" -- it's "give us back what you stole from us"
          Or better still, "Cancel the debt you have forced on us".
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          • Profile picture of the author Big Rob
            Originally Posted by whateverpedia View Post

            Or better still, "Cancel the debt you have forced on us".
            Congress could have instead of the bailouts.
            Every mortgage in the states could have been paid in full.

            BTW, welcome to the sequestration,America .
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            • Profile picture of the author whateverpedia
              Originally Posted by Big Rob View Post

              Congress could have instead of the bailouts.
              Every mortgage in the states could have been paid in full.
              Yep. Paying off every mortgage would've been a damn sight cheaper, the banks would've been "bailed out" and thousands (millions?) of people would've kept their homes.

              Ironically the biggest exponents of free market capitalism and less government intervention, required socialism (a government handout) to get them out of the mess they created.

              Despite this episode hammering the last nail in the coffin of neo-liberalism, there are still people (lobbyists) forcing this clap-trap (austerity, trickle down effect, Laffer Curve, etc.) on nations around the globe.
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            • Profile picture of the author seasoned
              Originally Posted by Big Rob View Post

              Congress could have instead of the bailouts.
              Every mortgage in the states could have been paid in full.

              BTW, welcome to the sequestration,America .
              NO THEY COULDN'T!!!!!!!!

              That money NEVER existed! What sense would it make for the country to go into debt to pay the countries debt? And you know.... They STILL would have blamed the rich! The stated idea of TARP(one of the bailouts) was to get people back to work, and build infrastructure. Presumably so manufacturers(That have not existed for a LONG time) could get going, and bring more money into the country to pay the debt. It was a pipedream BUT, if successful, it could have been a net gain. Paying off mortgages with debt would do NOTHING!!!!!!

              BTW services are either needed and provided, or can be almost anywhere, so the idea of massive infrastructure making changes there doesn't make near as much sense. Besides, most of that stuff wouldn't be international. When all is said and done, the stuff that really drives the economy is original import/export. The other countries pay you making their currency weaker, and yours stronger. That also drives demand for your currency. Without that, you have a closed system and your currency is practically worthless to them.

              As for the sequestration? It is interesting that the one that thought of it and did it, SUPPOSEDLY because NOBODY would want it to happen, is talking about it all the time and saying it was a HORRIBLE idea. They even told Bob Woodward not to tell anyone who did it! They said "You'll REGRET it!". It was NEVER a secret, but it is surprising how many are acting like they don't know the truth.

              They increased a tax on my income by 47%!!!!!!!!!!! FORTY SEVEN percent! From what I understand, it will hit people making $30K or less the hardest, since it stops accruing after $30K. They are claiming that it reduces the average paycheck by 2%(across the board). I believe it is almost 3% in my case. But some poor people started complaining after the first week in january! This is a real CUT in income! OH YEAH, we are SUPPOSED to get this back LATER, but many now say that if you aren't 56 or older now, you WON'T get it! We STILL have to PAY though!

              The sequestration is actually a reduction in the yearly INCREASE! They say it amounts to about $85billion in total cuts! To put this into perspective, last I knew, the US deficit increased by that much in less than 20 days!!!!!! It is a relatively piddly amount! And that is just the DEFICIT!!!!!! Money we have to BORROW!

              Some soldiers have been told to take a 20% cut in pay! Some prisoners, apparently about 500, have been set free.

              Steve
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              • Profile picture of the author Kay King
                I think sequestration is worth it just to watch the DC people dance and cry and moan. It's probably the only way we will ever slow down any spending, too.

                The danger in it is perhaps that partisan agency heads will make cuts where it will hurt the public - in order to show their "rightness".

                We spend millions on studying pig urine in China.
                We spent millions on a study to see how babies react to robots.
                and on...and on...and on...

                We are running a country on speeches and crises rather than on a budget and moderation...it will come home to roost eventually. Stay tuned for the next installment at the end of March when we run out of money...again.
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            • Profile picture of the author HeySal
              Originally Posted by Big Rob View Post

              Congress could have instead of the bailouts.
              Every mortgage in the states could have been paid in full.

              BTW, welcome to the sequestration,America .
              The bailouts were a COUP - and we allowed reps to keep their offices after going through with it, which makes them rulers, and us ignorant suckers.
              We could have walked out of the debt. Because the fiat currency that we have installed illegally on us can do nothing other than continually acquire more debt (that's exactly what it's set up TO DO), there was an expiration date set on the debt instead. If we had forced them to honor our wishes and stopped that bailout, the debt would have been legally cancelled and we'd have been freed of the debt and World Bank. Instead we chose to allow them to go through with bailouts and now we're owned lock, stock, and barrel.

              But don't hate these people that have used their money to kill millions and leave the rest in poverty. Just learn to bow and hope it is a skill that will save your life. Because the ultra wealthy that are owners of world bank laugh at people who cow tow. They will kill you as soon as look at you if there's something in it for them. There are only 8 families that this applies to. It does not apply to the person who devises a plan and accidentally walks into millions, or even billions of dollars - your average severely wealthy dude, such as Trump. It's much different to respect someone who made a hella bucketload of bucks and is harmless, or even helpful to the population at large than the slave-holders and murders at the top of World bank. People that use wealth for power and use it with vengeance against humans do not respect people who respect them - they are sociopaths. They respect those who see through, even if they understand they are powerless against them - at least they are smart enough to understand what has been done. The rest of the population is seen as two classes of livestock - just "useless eaters" or "useful idiots".
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          • Profile picture of the author seasoned
            Originally Posted by whateverpedia View Post

            Or better still, "Cancel the debt you have forced on us".
            One way to provide parity, etc.... would be to make the currency what it was worth prior to 1913, and value all credit accordingly. It will never happen, but if it did, YEAH! The poor that have been on welfare all their lives would have more incentive to work, once the spigot is turned off. The middle class would be FAR better off! The jerks in congress would have almost NO ability to cheat the public, etc.... Maybe the government can get with what is good for the COUNTRY. I would be happy if they turned it back even to 1980. I would then be making about what I am supposed to, and be far happier.

            Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    Ken,

    You made a lot of good points. Look at aquaponics! A prison could set aside a small part of the property and grow enough food for the prison, and he poor, and give the criminals some good skills they could maybe use outside. Section 8 and community buildings could do the same. Planning for it, they could do it for a relative SONG! It is a WIN/WIN. And taxpayers could pay less while they actually get BETTER food.

    HEY, there may be RICH people doing the same. I did hear decades ago about a multi billionaire doing it. Ironically, he made most of his money growing things the old fashioned way, and made money from that, but he had plants purifying water that was loaded with waste from cows, fed plants to cows, etc.... Not QUITE the same thing, but close.

    And some in the middle class are starting to do it.

    HECK, do you know how many public fountains(the show type, NOT drinking) there are that do SO much of the work, and are 100% pure WASTE? If we replaced those with aquaponic stations, they could be made as attractive, but be near 100% efficient! One company even found a way to feed the fish for really NOTHING! The catch? It needs biological waste. That could be dog excrement, moldy bread, table scraps, etc.... And it also helps reduce flies! It leaves you with compost while feeding the fish automatically! If I could put this in my backyard, I would already of had the whole thing there!

    Steve
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    • Profile picture of the author dmorrow
      Seasoned, I tried to reply to your post #30. I don't know how this ended up way down here.

      My son and his wife are doing this. We were talking about the system tonight. They're converting their backyard into a system with worms, fish, chickens, rabbits, and plants. No waste, no pollution, everything going to nourish everything else. Sounds great.
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  • Profile picture of the author hardraysnight
    but no one has yet shown a practical way to feed the poor, playing politics, just like in real life
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    • Profile picture of the author HeySal
      Originally Posted by hardraysnight View Post

      but no one has yet shown a practical way to feed the poor, playing politics, just like in real life
      Thanks to the fact that the population has grown beyond critical mass, the crisis is now moving beyond man-made and into the realms of natural disaster. IF everyone started to plant their yards, we might be able to stop it temporarily - but you have people living en mass in huge cities that are not designed to feed ANYONE. With the soil depletion, desertification, and urban sprawl resulting from population growth and the ruin of croplands by Monsanto and other GMO producers, we've got a huge nightmare coming down the planks toward us. There are many countries that only survive already because of food aid, and those populations continue to increase.

      The only way we're going to keep most of the population surviving long enough to naturally turn population growth to negative numbers and reduce it to sustainable numbers without most dying of in the extinction is to plant every inch we can plant in crops and to reforest everything that can be reforested, and restore every other ecosystem as well as possible as fast as possible.

      Some things we can all do are:
      Plant food gardens in your yard. Even if you can't produce enough to live on, you can take a bite out of the stuff you need to purchase. If you don't have a yard, plant what you can in window boxes or inside in pots or a hydroponic system.

      Plant things that grow fast and will provide large amounts of nutrition - some bamboo species are extremely nutritious and grow extremely fast. Everyone needs to have at least a few of these plants around to feed them in an emergency.

      Plant vertical gardens for more space and plant them everywhere possible.

      Buy seeds of plants that are indigenous to your own area and sprinkle them in fields and open areas. Make sure they are plants that grow naturally in your own area so you don't introduce species that aren't good for the local environment. These plants will help your local ecosystems and soils, and will remove toxins in the soil - they can block toxins from reaching local water sources in runoff.

      Talk to people who own high rises and get them to okay gardens on top of the building or vertical gardens on the side of buildings - this is also a good way to cut city heat in the summer.

      Help to restore ecosystems in your own area. It's the only real way to replenish depleted soil used for planting crops for too long.

      Become an activist for organic farming. It's now been proven that the pesticides required for GMO crops are poison to the microbes that make soil - and no soil = no life. It's also been proven that GMOs are poisonous to humans and animals and also that they do NOT produce higher crop yields. We can still save a LOT of soil by turning back to Organic farming.

      Oppose legislation that will render our food void of nutrition. Right now there is legislation that will require all produce sold to be irradiated to stop bacteria. Unfortunately, this would also result in killing nutrients such as enzymes and in people eating humungous amounts of radioactivity. STOP THEM - call your legislators and tell them to stop that legislation. All it will result in is more illness and money for the medical industrial complex.

      Organize to restore your own communities to ecological health, to grow community gardens, and to educate people in your area about ecosystem health and food growing.

      There's a lot we CAN do individually and just have to hope that people will do more than just whine to the gov to provide for them. THAT one isn't going to take us anywhere.
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    I believe the animals and the bee's are dying off by choice, because they no longer want to support man kind, because we dont pay it forward.
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