Multiculturalism

11 years ago

Multiculturalism is a dirty word for a lot of people.

Mainly due to people who advocate multiculturalism as an ideology, promoting tolerance of other cultures' values even when they are in conflict with established 'norms' of society - honor killings, for example.

The U.S. has never been 'multicultural' in the modern context of the word, but since its inception - and, as history as shown, whether it wanted to be or not - it has been and is culturally diverse.

The ideological multiculturist would never agree with your concept of 'enforcing existing laws'. They would advocate rewriting existing law to accommodate the behavior and beliefs of the other culture, even to the detriment of the host community.

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thunderbird

11 years ago

Originally Posted by SteveJohnson

Mainly due to people who advocate multiculturalism as an ideology, promoting tolerance of other cultures' values even when they are in conflict with established 'norms' of society - honor killings, for example.

The U.S. has never been 'multicultural' in the modern context of the word, but since its inception - and, as history as shown, whether it wanted to be or not - it has been and is culturally diverse.

The ideological multiculturist would never agree with your concept of 'enforcing existing laws'. They would advocate rewriting existing law to accommodate the behavior and beliefs of the other culture, even to the detriment of the host community.

The "ism" in the word does imply imposition of an ideology. I oppose that myself. Dogma is always ugly whatever direction it takes.

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HeySal

11 years ago

Rewriting laws for immigrants is where the cultures really start to clash, too. You can't peacefully tell a whole nation of people that they have to change long valued traditions because other people want to live there. Traditionally - that's called invasion. When people move to a new culture, they should do so with the intent of adapting to the laws and ways of that country. If enough people move from one culture to another, some norms will end up eventually blending and changing on their own. For politicians to push for it only encourages conflict.

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whateverpedia 11 years ago

Originally Posted by HeySal

When people move to a new culture, they should do so with the intent of adapting to the laws and ways of that country.

Like Europeans did when they "moved" to North and South America, Australia, Africa, etc.?
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- SteveJohnson 11 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by whateverpedia
  
  Like Europeans did when they "moved" to North and South America, Australia, Africa, etc.?
  
  Unless it is their intent to conquer, yes.
  
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Sue McDonald

11 years ago

Originally Posted by HeySal

Rewriting laws for immigrants is where the cultures really start to clash, too. You can't peacefully tell a whole nation of people that they have to change long valued traditions because other people want to live there. Traditionally - that's called invasion. When people move to a new culture, they should do so with the intent of adapting to the laws and ways of that country. If enough people move from one culture to another, some norms will end up eventually blending and changing on their own. For politicians to push for it only encourages conflict.

Well said - it is not only a problem in Canada but here in Australia we are experiencing the same problems. We have thousands of boat people arriving here ever year and these people are not changing to live like we do and they will not give up their cultures and customs. They get to Indonesia and pay the boat smugglers to bring them to Australia. When they get here they claim refugee status and the Government has to feed and clothe them and even provide cigarettes for those people who smoke.

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hardraysnight

11 years ago

Originally Posted by thunderbird

Multiculturalism is a dirty word for a lot of people. There certainly are a lot of significant problems associated with multiculturalism. Canada is a multicultural society. I daily read ugly news about gangs formed out of immigrant populations. Naturally one wonders why are we importing criminals into Canada? When one reads about honor killings committed by immigrants who harbor brutal backwards values, why did we import such savages into Canada?

However, the bigger view presents a different picture. New immigrants overwhelmingly work and study hard and generally improve Canada's economic, educational, and cultural landscape. Overall, multicultural societies fare better than relatively homogeneous xenophobic societies such as North Korea and Iran. Historically, times of greatest economic prosperity are associated with times of greatest multiculturalism and economic and cultural engagement with other nations.

From Benefits of Multiculturalism | BIPT

"Benefits of Multiculturalism

Innovation and Creativity
--At least 35 per cent of Canada Research Chairs are foreign-born, even though immigrants make up only 20 per cent of the Canadian population.
Immigrants to Canada win proportionally more prestigious literary and performing arts awards.
--Foreign direct investment into Canada is greater from countries that are well represented in Canada through immigration.
--Immigration rates improve trade between Canada and immigrants' countries of origin.
--Immigrants make significant contributions to innovation: Report
--Why Immigration is Critical to Canada's Prosperity: Report"

I think the best solution to ridding Canada of problems associated with criminal immigrants is a policy of intolerance to criminal behavior and enforcing existing laws. Canada is exploring the idea of stripping immigrant criminals of their Canadian citizenship:
MPs vote to study bill that would strip citizenship - Politics - CBC News

i live in z bi-cultural country, but have all the problems of a multicultural country due to untethered immigration policies by successive governments

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Dennis Gaskill

11 years ago

Forced multiculturalism won't work. The trouble is, that's how it's been handled.

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Thomas

11 years ago

Originally Posted by SteveJohnson

Mainly due to people who advocate multiculturalism as an ideology, promoting tolerance of other cultures' values even when they are in conflict with established 'norms' of society - honor killings, for example.

The ideological multiculturist would never agree with your concept of 'enforcing existing laws'. They would advocate rewriting existing law to accommodate the behavior and beliefs of the other culture, even to the detriment of the host community.

I think multiculturalism can work to some extent, but only if the cultures involved are already broadly similar to each other. Serious problems only arise when the immigrant culture is vastly different to the host culture.

In Europe, for example, there is quite a lot of third-world and/or non-Christian immigration into places like France, the UK, and Sweden. The result is race riots, cultural violence ("honour" killings, etc.), terrorism, etc.

Here (Ireland), some 17% of the total population are foreigners. However, they are almost entirely from other European countries, with the 2 largest immigrant groups (by far) being white, English-speaking Britons with existing family connections to Ireland, and white, Catholic Poles, mostly of whom already speak English before arriving in the country.

However, despite hosting a foreign population that is, for example, twice that of the UK (as a percentage of the overall population), Ireland hasn't had any race riots, immigrant gangs, or any significant level of problems with "cultural differences".

And, while it does have a pretty overwhelming national identity that is very hostile to outside interference, one very un-PC (but true, nevertheless) fact remains: when almost all immigrants are the same race, speak the same language, have the same religion, and have a very similar culture to the native population, there's very little to fight about anyway.

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socialentry

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill

Forced multiculturalism won't work. The trouble is, that's how it's been handled.

Tell that to Lee Kuan Yew.

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Dennis Gaskill

11 years ago

Originally Posted by socialentry

Tell that to Lee Kuan Yew.

I don't know you, so I have no idea what you mean by that.

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socialentry

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill

I don't know you, so I have no idea what you mean by that.

Lee Kuan Yew - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Apologies if I am a bit laconic/minimalist.

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Dennis Gaskill

11 years ago

Originally Posted by socialentry

Lee Kuan Yew - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Apologies if I am a bit laconic/minimalist.

I saw that page before I posted my last response. What I don't know is why you posted your reference to him. If you don't want to have a discussion, that's fine, enjoy your minimalism. No harm done.

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thunderbird

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill

I saw that page before I posted my last response. What I don't know is why you posted your reference to him. If you don't want to have a discussion, that's fine, enjoy your minimalism. No harm done.

Sheesh Dennis, why didn't you just read his mind? Get with the program. Didn't you read HeySal post with a link to an article about brains interlinking, even over long distances?

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socialentry

11 years ago

Originally Posted by thunderbird

Sheesh Dennis, why didn't you just read his mind? Get with the program. Didn't you read HeySal post with a link to an article about brains interlinking, even over long distances?

yeah i know i am hopelessly lazy when it comes to explaining things,lol.

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socialentry

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Dennis

I saw that page before I posted my last response. What I don't know is why you posted your reference to him. If you don't want to have a discussion, that's fine, enjoy your minimalism. No harm done.

lol no, I don't mean to be rude, I am simply not an argumentative person because I am very passionate about my views. If I start, I can write all day about it.

And I think writing on a forum about them won't do anything for them, but since I took the bait, I guess I should take the time to really flesh out an answer.

Also, I tend to assume that other people have the same interests as me (or that theyre telepaths) --- which is clearly not true.

If you read the history of Singapore, you know that the small city-state had a lot of racial strife. Furthermore, it is not even really a country. At first, it was never meant to be one, they tried to unite with Malaysia and got rejected because of multiculturalism.

When Lee Kuan Yew became prime minister,amongst the first few things he did was:

1-To promote mandatory english as the first tongue (mind you, Singapore is ethnically Chinese and have malay minority)..
2-Through the indirect use of public housing,"forcefully" split up ethnic neighbourhoods

He also did a lot of other little things.
aka Gradually diminish the cultural influence of muslims because of their "difficulty to integrate". Promote multiculturalism in schools, etc.

Singaporean multiculturalism is a great achievement because the state had a heavy hand in its shaping. That is an example of successful "forced" multiculturalism.

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Dennis Gaskill

11 years ago

Originally Posted by thunderbird

Sheesh Dennis, why didn't you just read his mind? Get with the program. Didn't you read HeySal post with a link to an article about brains interlinking, even over long distances?

Is there a WSO for that? I ain't learnt it yet.

Originally Posted by socialentry

lol no, I don't mean to be rude, I am simply not an argumentative person because I am very passionate about my views. If I start, I can write all day about it.

And I think writing on a forum about them won't do anything for them, but since I took the bait, I guess I should take the time to really flesh out an answer.

Also, I tend to assume that other people have the same interests as me (or that theyre telepaths) --- which is clearly not true.

If you read the history of Singapore, you know that the small city-state had a lot of racial strife. Furthermore, it is not even really a country. At first, it was never meant to be one, they tried to unite with Malaysia and got rejected because of multiculturalism.

When Lee Kuan Yew became prime minister,amongst the first few things he did was:

1-To promote mandatory english as the first tongue (mind you, Singapore is ethnically Chinese and have malay minority)..
2-Through the indirect use of public housing,"forcefully" split up ethnic neighbourhoods

He also did a lot of other little things.
aka Gradually diminish the cultural influence of muslims because of their "difficulty to integrate". Promote multiculturalism in schools, etc.

Singaporean multiculturalism is a great achievement because the state had a heavy hand in its shaping. That is an example of successful "forced" multiculturalism.

Thanks for the response. It may have ended successfully (up to this point anyway) but there was a lot of racial strife. That was my point about forced multiculturalism. The "cultures" have to be ready for it, and when it's forced on them they often are not. There are many examples where it has led to violent ends.

I'm a live and let live kind of guy. Forcing things on people, in my humble opinion, isn't the best way to go about it.

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bravo75

11 years ago

Multiculturalism is not so great when the foreigners outnumber the indigenous population.
Which is the case now in London, for example.

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thunderbird

11 years ago

Originally Posted by bravo75

Multiculturalism is not so great when the foreigners outnumber the indigenous population.
Which is the case now in London, for example.

I can see that something ugly is going on in London, but the demographics seem to only be true of some neighborhoods, while the indigenous popoplution is by far the majority elsewhere.
Police 'covered up' violent campaign to turn London area 'Islamic' - Telegraph

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bravo75

11 years ago

Originally Posted by thunderbird

I can see that something ugly is going on in London, but the demographics seem to only be true of some neighborhoods, while the indigenous popoplution is by far the majority elsewhere.
Police 'covered up' violent campaign to turn London area 'Islamic' - Telegraph

I read the article. Man, don't even get me started on these *******s.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UzdbFsagk74

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thunderbird

11 years ago

Originally Posted by bravo75

I read the article. Man, don't even get me started on these *******s.

Muslims Enforcing Sharia Law on the streets of London - WTF!!! - YouTube - YouTube

They don't represent all Arabs or Muslim immigrants. My understanding is that they've been violent towards Muslims as well who don't support their version of Islam. Are they legally allowed to act as self-appointed ideological police officers in a UK neighborhood? Shouldn't they get arrested for that?

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bravo75

11 years ago

Originally Posted by thunderbird

They don't represent all Arabs or Muslim immigrants. My understanding is that they've been violent towards Muslims as well who don't support their version of Islam. Are they legally allowed to act as self-appointed ideological police officers in a UK neighborhood? Shouldn't they get arrested for that?

We are told that Islamic extremists differ from moderate Muslims. But how many moderate Muslims wish to see Britain governed by Sharia Law, but wish this to happen via the ballot box rather than the bomb?

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derekwong28

11 years ago

Originally Posted by thunderbird

"Benefits of Multiculturalism

Innovation and Creativity
--At least 35 per cent of Canada Research Chairs are foreign-born, even though immigrants make up only 20 per cent of the Canadian population.
Immigrants to Canada win proportionally more prestigious literary and performing arts awards.
--Foreign direct investment into Canada is greater from countries that are well represented in Canada through immigration.
--Immigration rates improve trade between Canada and immigrants’ countries of origin.
--Immigrants make significant contributions to innovation: Report
--Why Immigration is Critical to Canada’s Prosperity: Report"

[/url]

I would be surprised if this were not otherwise. Canada's immigration system heavily favors those with high qualifications and/or wealth. Its lifestyle is highly attractive to those who lived in highly stressful (and polluted) environments. I know a lot of people from Hong Kong who gave up very high paying jobs and businesses to move to Canada. However, there is also a confounding factor. A lot of highly qualified Canadians move to the US all the time for higher paying jobs.

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thunderbird

11 years ago

Originally Posted by derekwong28

I would be surprised if this were not otherwise. Canada's immigration system heavily favors those with high qualifications and/or wealth. Its lifestyle is highly attractive to those who lived in highly stressful (and polluted) environments. I know a lot of people from Hong Kong who gave up very high paying jobs and businesses to move to Canada. However, there is also a confounding factor. A lot of highly qualified Canadians move to the US all the time for higher paying jobs.

An increasing number of Canadians are moving to China for higher paying jobs, LOL.

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Angle Warrior 11 years ago

Originally Posted by derekwong28

I would be surprised if this were not otherwise. Canada's immigration system heavily favors those with high qualifications and/or wealth.

You're kidding right? The Canadian Gov. has one of the weakest systems in the world when it comes to immigration, but first before I rant I must say there are a SUPER AMOUNT of great people that have immigrated to Canada with respectful beliefs and respect for Canadian culture.

That being said, Canada is quickly becoming a cesspool for the worlds unwanted. The Canadian Gov. will allow almost anyone who claims the life is at risk to stay, and we will support them because they are NOT wealthy, they are NOT well educated, they are poor, and the Canadian Gov. will support them by providing them with an income of over $2,000 per month per adult PLUS after one month in Ontario they have full medical and dental coverage.

If you are born a Canadian maybe even a veteran who fought to protect this Great Country from people trying to force the beliefs and culture on us and others then you can expect the Canadian Gov. to fork over LESS than one third of that given to immigrants, Average Benefit 65 and over $ 528.49 per month.

Yes I will agree there are a lot of great people that have come to Canada and help it grow, work hard and are PROUD to be Canadian, than there are those that despise Canada and it culture and our laws, they don't respect our environment or Canadians and are the heartbeat of the tax less underground economy avoiding whenever possible to pay the very taxes that made it possible for them to stay here in the first place.

If they break a Canadian law DEPORT THEM, end of story.
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Multiculturalism

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