Old Asylums

11 years ago

The states use to "hold" anyone with mental illness by confining them to state run mental hospitals. These were more like prisons than hospitals. Even if a patient was not dangerous to themselves or to others, anyone with a mental issue could be held indefinitely.

In 1975 there was a landmark decision from the US Supreme Court that caused the states to release patients.

Wikipedia says this: O'Connor v. Donaldson - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"O'Connor v. Donaldson, 422 U.S. 563 (1975), was a landmark decision in mental health law. The United States Supreme Court ruled that a state cannot constitutionally confine a non-dangerous individual who is capable of surviving safely in freedom by themselves or with the help of willing and responsible family members or friends..."

Patients were held in abhorrent conditions at these "hospital prisons."

About the hospital at which Donaldson was imprisoned Wikipedia says: "In 1956 Donaldson travelled to Florida to visit his elderly parents. While there, Donaldson reported that he believed one of his neighbours in Philadelphia might be poisoning his food. His father, worried that his son suffered from paranoid delusions, petitioned the court for a sanity hearing. Donaldson was evaluated, diagnosed with "paranoid schizophrenia," and civilly committed to the Florida State mental health system. At his commitment trial, Donaldson did not have legal counsel present to represent his case. Once he entered the Florida hospital, Donaldson was placed with dangerous criminals, even though he had never been proved to be dangerous to himself or others. His ward was understaffed, with only one doctor (who happened to be an obstetrician) for over 1,000 male patients. There were no psychiatrists or counsellors, and the only nurse on site worked in the infirmary."

I remember a state run mental hospital in Cincinnati called Longview State Hospital. The property was enclosed within an 8ft fence. From the outside, it looked like prison. Occasionally a patient/prisoner would escape, this would make the television news, and the police would go arrest the patient.

It was as if the act of having wrong brain chemistry was a crime.

:-Don

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Daniel Evans 11 years ago

Ten pin bowling!

Book me in!
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bizgrower

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Don Schenk

The states use to "hold" anyone with mental illness by confining them to state run mental hospitals. These were more like prisons than hospitals. Even if a patient was not dangerous to themselves or to others, anyone with a mental issue could be held indefinitely.

In 1975 there was a landmark decision from the US Supreme Court that caused the states to release patients.

Wikipedia says this: O'Connor v. Donaldson - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"O'Connor v. Donaldson, 422 U.S. 563 (1975), was a landmark decision in mental health law. The United States Supreme Court ruled that a state cannot constitutionally confine a non-dangerous individual who is capable of surviving safely in freedom by themselves or with the help of willing and responsible family members or friends..."

Patients were held in abhorrent conditions at these "hospital prisons."

About the hospital at which Donaldson was imprisoned Wikipedia says: "In 1956 Donaldson travelled to Florida to visit his elderly parents. While there, Donaldson reported that he believed one of his neighbours in Philadelphia might be poisoning his food. His father, worried that his son suffered from paranoid delusions, petitioned the court for a sanity hearing. Donaldson was evaluated, diagnosed with "paranoid schizophrenia," and civilly committed to the Florida State mental health system. At his commitment trial, Donaldson did not have legal counsel present to represent his case. Once he entered the Florida hospital, Donaldson was placed with dangerous criminals, even though he had never been proved to be dangerous to himself or others. His ward was understaffed, with only one doctor (who happened to be an obstetrician) for over 1,000 male patients. There were no psychiatrists or counsellors, and the only nurse on site worked in the infirmary."

I remember a state run mental hospital in Cincinnati called Longview State Hospital. The property was enclosed within an 8ft fence. From the outside, it looked like prison. Occasionally a patient/prisoner would escape, this would make the television news, and the police would go arrest the patient.

It was as if the act of having wrong brain chemistry was a crime.

:-Don

Sadly, the other side of the coin is that this helped create the homeless problem as no better alternative system was established. And humane services are needed today.

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Big Rob 11 years ago

There is an old asylum in my town.

It sits on Prime Riverfront property, and has been for sale for at least 10 years
11 acres, ripe for a condo or small subdivision.

My guess is due to the history and plain ol heebee-geebee
factor, they just cant sell the place.

My son and his friends poked around there one night on a dare,
And it freaked them out so bad they wont even talk about it much.

They swear they saw shadows and heard groaning.
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- Dennis Gaskill 11 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Big Rob
  
  There is an old asylum in my town.
  
  It sits on Prime Riverfront property...
  
  That right there would be enough to get me to look at it, if it were in my town. Being on the market for 10+ years means the price ought to be pretty reasonable for riverfront property.
  
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Diane S

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Don Schenk

I remember a state run mental hospital in Cincinnati called Longview State Hospital. The property was enclosed within an 8ft fence. From the outside, it looked like prison. Occasionally a patient/prisoner would escape, this would make the television news, and the police would go arrest the patient.

:-Don

I remember Longview as well. It was on the corner of Paddock and Seymour, or at least part of it was. It was huge, with dozens of buildings on both sides of Paddock. Back in 1998 there was an effort to preserve the cemetery there, with over 800 markers mostly sunken in and hard to read. Wonder if it is still being protected.

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HeySal

11 years ago

I don't know if I'd be willing to go into one of those places without a whole crew of people and a LOT of daylight, and I'm not the easily spooked type. A few of the pics of those long hallways really got to me, though.

I can't imagine what it was like to be sane and have relatives "put you away". There were a lot of people that wound up in these places just to keep them from their share of family fortunes and things of that nature. If you weren't dangerous and truly just zoned out when you went in.........how long could you stay that way?

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devonm

11 years ago

hell, I got a BOOK, a book with PHOTOS of old asylums, btw. Thank you for bringing this up. Nice.

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MissTerraK

11 years ago

Was that ice growing up out of the floor in that one photo?

That old asylum with the rounded hallway really gave me the creeps!

Don't feel bad Sal, there's no way I'd go into one of those places without a whole slew of people either! And after dark? Uh, uh! Not even with the army or marines at my side!

(Could be because I've watched too may "My Ghost Story Caught On Camera" episodes.)

Terra

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Claude Whitacre

11 years ago

When I was a teenager and still believed in ghosts, demons, spirits (Thanks Mom)...old houses and old buildings were kind of scary to me.

Now, they just bother my dust allergies.

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MissTerraK

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

When I was a teenager and still believed in ghosts, demons, spirits (Thanks Mom)...old houses and old buildings were kind of scary to me.

Now, they just bother my dust allergies.

So, you don't believe in ghosts, demons or spirits...how about negative energy?

Hmmm, I don't believe in dust allergies but I still have them.

:p

Terra

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Claude Whitacre

11 years ago

Originally Posted by MissTerraK

So, you don't believe in ghosts, demons or spirits...how about negative energy?

Hmmm, I don't believe in dust allergies but I still have them.

:p

Terra

Terra; Define negative energy. Then I can answer.

Thanks for asking, Claude

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MissTerraK

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

Terra; Define negative energy. Then I can answer.

Thanks for asking, Claude

Okay, let me see if I can do this justice with an example of entering into an area full of negative energy. The air around you sometimes feels colder than normal. Sometimes you get goose bumples or chills run up and down your back. Your hair feels like it is growing. The air changes, it feels thick and sometimes you feel nauseated way down in the pit of your stomach. Not the same nauseated as when you have the flu, though. You just sort of feel creeped out and you can sense a unseen presence or that you're not alone or the negative energy all around you.

Hope that helped your understanding of it.

Terra

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ThomM

11 years ago

Originally Posted by MissTerraK

Okay, let me see if I can do this justice with an example of entering into an area full of negative energy. The air around you sometimes feels colder than normal. Sometimes you get goose bumples or chills run up and down your back. Your hair feels like it is growing. The air changes, it feels thick and sometimes you feel nauseated way down in the pit of your stomach. Not the same nauseated as when you have the flu, though. You just sort of feel creeped out and you can sense a unseen presence or that you're not alone or the negative energy all around you.

Hope that helped your understanding of it.

Terra

I've had a couple of different people who said they could sense that sort of stuff freak in my living room and dining room.
I know for a fact that my fathers first wife died in the room above the living room and her wake was in the house. Her body was displayed in the living room and the liquor was in the dining room with the food in the kitchen

The earliest record I have of the house is from when it was first sold to the Lee family around 1864. Around here in the country when someone died the wake was always in the home with the body displayed in the living room. That went on well into the 40's.
So there no telling home many wakes there have been here, but I imagine quite a few.

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bizgrower

11 years ago

Originally Posted by MissTerraK

Okay, let me see if I can do this justice with an example of entering into an area full of negative energy. The air around you sometimes feels colder than normal. Sometimes you get goose bumples or chills run up and down your back. Your hair feels like it is growing. The air changes, it feels thick and sometimes you feel nauseated way down in the pit of your stomach. Not the same nauseated as when you have the flu, though. You just sort of feel creeped out and you can sense a unseen presence or that you're not alone or the negative energy all around you.

Hope that helped your understanding of it.

Terra

I get this feeling around some people and buildings, and when I venture into caves and ... the copywriting subforum.

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MissTerraK 11 years ago

Originally Posted by bizgrower

I get this feeling around some people and buildings, and when I venture into caves and ... the copywriting subforum.

Hahaha! You just made my day! I use to venture in there once in a while and with all that "negative energy" bouncing around, I don't so much anymore. :p

Terra
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Claude Whitacre

11 years ago

Originally Posted by MissTerraK

Okay, let me see if I can do this justice with an example of entering into an area full of negative energy. The air around you sometimes feels colder than normal. Sometimes you get goose bumples or chills run up and down your back. Your hair feels like it is growing. The air changes, it feels thick and sometimes you feel nauseated way down in the pit of your stomach. Not the same nauseated as when you have the flu, though. You just sort of feel creeped out and you can sense a unseen presence or that you're not alone or the negative energy all around you.

Hope that helped your understanding of it.

Terra

Terra; Thanks for the explanation. I think your feelings are absolutely real.
Do I think they are caused by a supernatural source? No.

Originally Posted by HeySal

Yeah me, too.

Maybe a night or two in one of those places might just change your mind.

Sal; I understand why you think that. And I understand why that is a popular thought. But no.

If I would spend the night in an asylum...noises would just be noises. a cold spot would just be a place that's cold. and the only thing that would scare me is the fact that I'm alone...and I may choke on my cold taco. If a vision appeared in front of me...I would be kicking it in the groin to see if ghosts have groins. If that didn't work, I'd assume someone put something in my coffee.
I just have no religious or supernatural thoughts.

This isn't an argument, and I'm not trying to convince anyone. It's just my take on it.

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MissTerraK

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

Terra; Thanks for the explanation. I think your feelings are absolutely real.
Do I think they are caused by a supernatural source? No.

Hmmm,
Okay, what would you say caused my goose bumples and the hair on the back of my neck and on arms to stand up when it is say 80 degrees and there is no wind, no chill, no sudden drop in temperature and I haven't ingested any sort of "uppers"? lol!

Terra

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Claude Whitacre

11 years ago

Originally Posted by MissTerraK

Hmmm,
Okay, what would you say caused my goose bumples and the hair on the back of my neck and on arms to stand up when it is say 80 degrees and there is no wind, no chill, no sudden drop in temperature and I haven't ingested any sort of "uppers"? lol!

Terra

No. It was a reaction to a perceived threat. I mentioned this on another thread, I think.

We are hardwired to see patterns in our world. We are also (like any animal) subject to our survival mechanism.

When an animal sees a bush rustle, or tall grass move..they instantly perceive it as a predator. All animals have that instinct, even us. That's what has allowed us to survive. We still have those instincts. In fact, we can't overcome them, even when we know intellectually, that there is no danger.

We also tend to anthropomorphise these feelings. Instead of a lion, we think it's something...sort of...human.
These feelings are intuitive. Not having them would make us something odd.
Goose bumps have nothing to do with the cold. Goosebumps, shivers up the spine, the very strong feeling that we are not alone, feeling cold (from our skin flushing) are all normal reactions to an unseen threat.

There are plenty of books on brain science that explain how this all works.

Believe me, I've had exactly the same feelings as you just described...multiple times. These feelings are intuitive.

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MissTerraK

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

No. It was a reaction to a perceived threat. I mentioned this on another thread, I think.

We are hardwired to see patterns in our world. We are also (like any animal) subject to our survival mechanism.

When an animal sees a bush rustle, or tall grass move..they instantly perceive it as a predator. All animals have that instinct, even us. That's what has allowed us to survive. We still have those instincts. In fact, we can't overcome them, even when we know intellectually, that there is no danger.

We also tend to anthropomorphise these feelings. Instead of a lion, we think it's something...sort of...human.
These feelings are intuitive. Not having them would make us something odd.
Goose bumps have nothing to do with the cold. Goosebumps, shivers up the spine, the very strong feeling that we are not alone, feeling cold (from our skin flushing) are all normal reactions to an unseen threat.

There are plenty of books on brain science that explain how this all works.

Believe me, I've had exactly the same feelings as you just described...multiple times. These feelings are intuitive.

See, I intuitively know that I am not alone. :p

Seriously though, I do get them even when I do not feel threatened by anything. Let me give you an example.

Not too long ago I was talking with my sister about our mom who was killed in a car accident when I was only 19 and she 21. We were discussing what we believed my mom would have been like with grand and great grandchildren. I stated something I believed wholeheartedly that she would have done with them based on what she did with us as kids. As soon as I said it, both my sister and I got those goose bumple/chills simultaneously. There most certainly was no sense of threat, perceived or otherwise.

Your thoughts?

Terra

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Claude Whitacre

11 years ago

Originally Posted by MissTerraK

See, I intuitively know that I am not alone. :p

Seriously though, I do get them even when I do not feel threatened by anything. Let me give you an example.

Not too long ago I was talking with my sister about our mom who was killed in a car accident when I was only 19 and she 21. We were discussing what we believed my mom would have been like with grand and great grandchildren. I stated something I believed wholeheartedly that she would have done with them based on what she did with us as kids. As soon as I said it, both my sister and I got those goose bumple/chills simultaneously. There most certainly was no sense of threat, perceived or otherwise.

Your thoughts?

Terra

Terra; You're now just getting a guess from me. And guesses have little value. You were both using your imagination strongly. You were both very emotionally involved in the subject. And how could you not feel strongly thinking about your mother? That can easily force a physical reaction.

Believe me, an hour with my Dad would be worth a fortune, now that he's gone. Even the thought that he was still alive in some way..any way...would give me great comfort.

And I truly think that if you believe that your Mom was present, that has far more value than anything I could say. In fact, I envy you.

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MissTerraK

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

Terra; You're now just getting a guess from me. And guesses have little value. You were both using your imagination strongly. You were both very emotionally involved in the subject. And how could you not feel strongly thinking about your mother? That can easily force a physical reaction.

Believe me, an hour with my Dad would be worth a fortune, now that he's gone. Even the thought that he was still alive in some way..any way...would give me great comfort.

And I truly think that if you believe that your Mom was present, that has far more value than anything I could say. In fact, I envy you.

Aww Geez Claude!

You're making the emotion that overflows from my heart spill out through my eyes.

Terra

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HeySal

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

<snip>
When an animal sees a bush rustle, or tall grass move..they instantly perceive it as a predator. All animals have that instinct, even us. That's what has allowed us to survive. We still have those instincts. In fact, we can't overcome them, even when we know intellectually, that there is no danger.
<snip>

There are plenty of books on brain science that explain how this all works.

LOL - I lived in an old house in the Mt's of CO. The valley was star shaped and we got some real heavy winds from two directions. I had a Rottweiler, pretty smart and strong guy.

He used to get spooked as hell when the wind blew hard enough because cupboards would bang in the kitchen, etc, but he couldn't see or smell anyone there. I came home from work one day that the wind had been particularly strong and there in the front yard sat Blitz. The door was open so I figured the wind rattled it open. When we went inside I grabbed the knob to pull the door shut, and the knob had been half crushed and Blitz had bit right through the metal to get out. That made it obvious that my suspicions that he thought we had ghosts when the wind came up were right.

I still believe there is more to existence than we can understand and the glimpses we get are all natural, but we misinterpret because our senses, except the basic 5, are for the most part gone. Even the very normal can seem bizarre and unreasonable when you are limited in your perceptions.

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Sal
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ThomM

11 years ago

We had the Marshal Sanitarium in Troy.
It sat on Linden Ave. across from the Postenkil Gorge.
Here's a bit that I dug up from an old census record.

In 1859, the three-story brick building on the south side of the infirmary was erected by the supervisors of Rensselaer County for an insane asylum, and in 1861, they built a similar structure for lunatics, beyond the hill, on the grounds, east of the infirmary building. In 1880, a two-story building was erected south of the insane asylum for the care of refractory patients.

That was one of two places our parents would threaten to send us to if we acted up real bad, the other was St. Colemans Home and orphanage in Cohoes.
The rumor was the Sanitarium was haunted, which gives me a chuckle every time I go by there as it has been torn down and replaced with duplex type condos.

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AprilCT 11 years ago

Definitely creepy looking. I remember being in grade school and one of the school trips was to see one of those places--with the people actually living there. All I can remember is one very pretty blond teenage girl was amongst the inmates.

Actually, we were way too young to go on that kind of trip because it was like going to a hospital, some trip--no big deal, but we got out of school for the trip.

The place has been torn down now for awhile, but nobody's building on it...heard something about the soil there not good for buildings. Anyway, it was a large asylum and I think it had been there a long time, abandoned for a long time and then it was torn down.
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Daniel Evans 11 years ago

Originally Posted by devonm

hell, I got a BOOK, a book with PHOTOS

The kids nowadays with their video books don't know how lucky they are!...

Daniel
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HeySal

11 years ago

Claude - I lived in mining areas and they are famous for ghosts. These are not autonomous beings though, they are kind of like holograms, that is, they play out the same action or just sit there. One thought on this phenomenon is that there is a lot of quartz in the area -- and quartz stores energy (that's why it's used in computers), and it's also piezoelectric, so when hit right, it releases energy - so the "ghosts" are actually like a recording. When the earth shifts, you get ghosts.

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Claude Whitacre

11 years ago

Originally Posted by HeySal

Claude - I lived in mining areas and they are famous for ghosts. These are not autonomous beings though, they are kind of like holograms, that is, they play out the same action or just sit there. One thought on this phenomenon is that there is a lot of quartz in the area -- and quartz stores energy (that's why it's used in computers), and it's also piezoelectric, so when hit right, it releases energy - so the "ghosts" are actually like a recording. When the earth shifts, you get ghosts.

Sal; No, I don't believe these things are real.

After my father died, I was in my retail store doing paperwork. I looked up and could plainly see my dad standing in the next room.

I didn't look away. I wasn't about to let it disappear. And the image changed to a coat rack and some winter coats. It was lighting, shadow, a large dose of wishful thinking, and an active imagination.

I have many very intelligent friends that have beliefs that I don't understand. It's just the way we are built.

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HeySal

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

Sal; No, I don't believe these things are real.

After my father died, I was in my retail store doing paperwork. I looked up and could plainly see my dad standing in the next room.

I didn't look away. I wasn't about to let it disappear. And the image changed to a coat rack and some winter coats. It was lighting, shadow, a large dose of wishful thinking, and an active imagination.

I have many very intelligent friends that have beliefs that I don't understand. It's just the way we are built.

Yeah me, too.

Maybe a night or two in one of those places might just change your mind.

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Kurt

11 years ago

If I were a ghost the last place I'd haunt would be an old insane asylum....I'd go to a place like the Playboy Mansion.

Plus, I ain't afraid of no ghost...