All marketers are liars?

LarryC

11 years ago

Who really knows what the truth is?

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Dan Riffle

11 years ago

Originally Posted by tmtechno

Seth Godin said - all marketers are liars.

I think marketers are not liars. They just accentuate the truth.

What do you say?

Fixed that for you.

It's a poor marketer who has to lie or exaggerate.

I haven't read Godin's comment in context. Perchance a link?

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Claude Whitacre

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Dan Riffle

Fixed that for you.

It's a poor marketer who has to lie or exaggerate.

I haven't read Godin's comment in context. Perchance a link?

I agree. Exaggeration is poor marketing. Lying is fatal marketing.

Good marketing is Clarity. It gives a bright clear picture of the problem and solution.

If you think marketing is lying, you aren't a marketer. And you would never be successful at it.

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lcombs

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

I agree. Exaggeration is poor marketing. Lying is fatal marketing.

Good marketing is Clarity. It gives a bright clear picture of the problem and solution.

If you think marketing is lying, you aren't a marketer. And you would never be successful at it.

I disagree.
Damn near every marketing tactic employs exaggeration and deception of one kind or another.
Dan Kennedy said, (according to Frank Kern), "If you're not getting at least a 10%
refund rate you're not selling hard enough."
I may be wrong, but it seems to me if you're getting a 10% refund/return rate, then your product isn't performing as advertized.

Check out this dog training site. (It isn't mine. I think it used to belong to Frank Kern but he says he sold it).
http://www.trainpetdog.com/Bichon-Fr...FVKf4Aodj20Akw

Check it out thoroughly and click on both links in the pop-up.
Then go to the root URL.
If you don't detect exaggeration and deception-teetering-on-lying maybe you should get out of marketing.

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Claude Whitacre

11 years ago

Originally Posted by lcombs

I disagree.
Damn near every marketing tactic employs exaggeration and deception of one kind or another.
Dan Kennedy said, (according to Frank Kern), "If you're not getting at least a 10%
refund rate you're not selling hard enough."
I may be wrong, but it seems to me if you're getting a 10% refund/return rate, then your product isn't performing as advertized.

A 10% refund rate is pretty standard. Kennedy was talking about getting a higher price, not exaggeration.. I've also heard that if you aren't getting price objections, you aren't selling at a high enough price. That's also not true.

Originally Posted by lcombs

Check out this dog training site. (It isn't mine. I think it used to belong to Frank Kern but he says he sold it).
http://www.trainpetdog.com/Bichon-Fr...FVKf4Aodj20Akw

Check it out thoroughly and click on both links in the pop-up.
Then go to the root URL.
If you don't detect exaggeration and deception-teetering-on-lying maybe you should get out of marketing.

I'm not really interested in checking out the site. There is a ton of exaggeration in advertising. Sometimes outright lies. But these aren't as effective as ads that stick to the truth.

How many times will you buy from someone who exaggerates what they deliver? The answer is always "Only once".

Exaggeration and deception doesn't build a business.
I'm not talking about morality. If lying in ads got better results, I'd do it.

If someone has a very clear picture of what you sell, the benefits it offers, and the return on investment.....a sale is possible.
But most of us have a "BS detector" that works in varying degrees. One hint that the advertisement, sales letter, sales page is giving BS...and the prospect doesn't buy.

Great marketing matches the prospect to the offer. That match can't come if deception is used. Being clear, concise, and honest are sales techniques that wok. They build trust, and repeat business.

Do you think marketing to high level clients is deceptive? Maybe...but it won't last long. You can't build a profitable relationship on exaggeration.

Exaggerating claims is a rookie mistake. Selling and marketing at high levels won't tolerate deception....not even a little.

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lcombs

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

A 10% refund rate is pretty standard. Kennedy was talking about getting a higher price, not exaggeration.. I've also heard that if you aren't getting price objections, you aren't selling at a high enough price. That's also not true.

I'm not really interested in checking out the site. There is a ton of exaggeration in advertising. Sometimes outright lies. But these aren't as effective as ads that stick to the truth.

How many times will you buy from someone who exaggerates what they deliver? The answer is always "Only once".

Exaggeration and deception doesn't build a business.
I'm not talking about morality. If lying in ads got better results, I'd do it.

If someone has a very clear picture of what you sell, the benefits it offers, and the return on investment.....a sale is possible.
But most of us have a "BS detector" that works in varying degrees. One hint that the advertisement, sales letter, sales page is giving BS...and the prospect doesn't buy.

Great marketing matches the prospect to the offer. That match can't come if deception is used. Being clear, concise, and honest are sales techniques that wok. They build trust, and repeat business.

Do you think marketing to high level clients is deceptive? Maybe...but it won't last long. You can't build a profitable relationship on exaggeration.

Exaggerating claims is a rookie mistake. Selling and marketing at high levels won't tolerate deception....not even a little.

That site is just an example of a multi-million dollar marketers tactics.

I suspect you don't have a "Swipe" file.

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tagiscom

11 years ago

Added later; There is a big difference between being "Honest" and being stupid. Great marketing still has to be engrossing, compelling, interesting. So that involves using language and copywriting skills.
You can create vivid pictures with words, but lying is a different thing altogether. Some people think that if you are interesting and make a compelling argument, you must be dishonest.

They think that because they don't know how to create a compelling argument.

It could also be because they don't want to be made aware that making an honest buck online, or especially wealth is possible.

So there BS meters, go way down, to a point, that we find ridiculous.

Or they call a product scammy, because the info, on creating wealth is derived from another source, and not from the author.

Nothing wrong with this, as long as you have permission, etc, and have decent evidence that it has worked for others!

Shane

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Claude Whitacre 11 years ago

Originally Posted by lcombs

That site is just an example of a multi-million dollar marketers tactics.

I suspect you don't have a "Swipe" file.

In fact I have several. I've written a few books on advertising and marketing. I make a very comfortable living from my marketing efforts, and I now understand what type of offers you are talking about.

Yes, the sales letters designed to get one sale from a customer can have exaggerated claims..in fact many do.

I see now. You are talking about the sales letters and ads that bring in lots of up front money, but don't translate to an ongoing relationship. Or sell crap that isn't expected to give any real benefits. Yes, you can make money doing that. But you're always looking for the new list, the new customer.

And many of the old time marketers that use lies to sell, are now in jail...or are broke....or after they made some money, changed the way they sold.

Again, you can sell by exaggeration, broken promises, and lies..but usually only once. And selling this way shows a lack of talent. You can paint a beautiful picture, and it can still be accurate.

There is also the possibility that you think good copywriting is, by it's very nature, deceptive. I don't know.

Added later; The reason I have swipe files is because there are patterns in the sales letters and ads that sell. After you have written a few dozen successful sales letters (and many more losers), and studied hundreds of the best sales letters...

You see patterns. You see the sequence of appeals...that language used to pain a picture.

All of these things are useful, and can be translated into almost any offer.

But some of the offers are exaggerated, a few are outright frauds. And this isn't necessary.
In fact, some sales letters are so well written, that the create sales...despite the fact that they exaggerate claims. I've always made more sales, on the first attempt, by painting a clear picture. The clearer the better.
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Joel Young

11 years ago

Originally Posted by lcombs

I disagree.
Damn near every marketing tactic employs exaggeration and deception of one kind or another.
Dan Kennedy said, (according to Frank Kern), "If you're not getting at least a 10%
refund rate you're not selling hard enough."
I may be wrong, but it seems to me if you're getting a 10% refund/return rate, then your product isn't performing as advertized.

Check out this dog training site. (It isn't mine. I think it used to belong to Frank Kern but he says he sold it).
http://www.trainpetdog.com/Bichon-Fr...FVKf4Aodj20Akw

Check it out thoroughly and click on both links in the pop-up.
Then go to the root URL.
If you don't detect exaggeration and deception-teetering-on-lying maybe you should get out of marketing.

I have done very well with being truthful, using no exaggerations or deceptions, even a little bit. In fact I've had prospects turn away because they figured there MUST be something I'm hiding because I'm "too honest". And that's fine because a client like that will always be looking for something wrong, and will become the nightmare I don't need.

Honesty can and does work. Unfortunately, few people give it a chance.

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GforceSage

11 years ago

Or...Are all Liars marketers? Just trying to say anything to get what they what.

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DotComBum

11 years ago

They are not liars, it's just an art of selling

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tmtechno

11 years ago

@Dan Riffle - I apologize for the misleading opening statement. Seth Godin did not 'say' that - http://sethgodin.typepad.com/all_marketers_are_liars/

But all marketers do have to extend, accentuate or exaggerate the truth. None can state the absolute truth and survive - in marketing.

Storytelling is also sugarcoating the truth - making it more palatable.

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David Maschke

11 years ago

Originally Posted by tmtechno

None can state the absolute truth and survive - in marketing.

You are way over-thinking it.

My daughter goes door to door selling girl scout cookies.

Her marketing strategy isn't too complex, "Do you want to buy some girl scout cookies?" Zero philosophy involved.

Some buy. Some Don't.

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kenmichaels

11 years ago

Originally Posted by David Maschke

You are way over-thinking it.

My daughter goes door to door selling girl scout cookies.

Her marketing strategy isn't too complex, "Do you want to buy some girl scout cookies?" Zero philosophy involved.

Some buy. Some Don't.

Perfection, at its finest.

I hope in 20 years from now, she remembers the lesson.
She will be set for life if she does.

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Claude Whitacre

11 years ago

Originally Posted by tmtechno

@Dan Riffle - I apologize for the misleading opening statement. Seth Godin did not 'say' that - http://sethgodin.typepad.com/all_marketers_are_liars/

But all marketers do have to extend, accentuate or exaggerate the truth. None can state the absolute truth and survive - in marketing.

Storytelling is also sugarcoating the truth - making it more palatable.

There is "inside baseball" that doesn't further the sale. This isn't deception, it's just "not stating what doesn't apply".

I've watched Dan Kennedy tell us from stage exactly what he was doing to sell us...and then he would sell us, using methods that he just taught us. he would tell a story, dissect the story, and reveal what made the story useful...all in the same speech...selling all the time.

Why does this work?

Because if the offer is sound, if it really is to the buyer's benefit, it doesn't matter if the client sees the technique.

I once used a close to help a client decide whether to buy my high end offer or not. He was a very sharp sales manager for a large company.

He said "That's a hell of a great close".

I said "And it worked, didn't it." He said "It sure did".

You can tell a story, and then tell how that story applies, spill all the beans (as long as it isn't boring)...and the client will still buy...because the more you reveal, the better the pitch sounds.

This is especially true in in-person selling. We can't hide our body language. Unless you are a psychopath, you just aren't a real convincing Liar.
Women are a little better at detecting these signals than men.
Telling the truth has real power in selling. Far more than exaggerating or deception.

I think I've spent enough time on this.

Added later; There is a big difference between being "Honest" and being stupid. Great marketing still has to be engrossing, compelling, interesting. So that involves using language and copywriting skills.
You can create vivid pictures with words, but lying is a different thing altogether. Some people think that if you are interesting and make a compelling argument, you must be dishonest.

They think that because they don't know how to create a compelling argument.

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Daniel Evans

11 years ago

Originally Posted by tmtechno

Seth Godin said - all marketers are liars.

What do you say?

I say he missed his ironic paradox....

(or you did).

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MissTerraK

11 years ago

Originally Posted by tmtechno

Seth Godin said - all marketers are liars.

Seth Godin the marketer?

I don't believe that.

Terra

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tagiscom 11 years ago

True, all marketers have to bend the truth a little, to get the sale, but as long as it has, a money back guarantee, then the only issue is time wasted?

Some people consider something as being a scam, eventhough a full money back guarantee is present and it is a quality product, (overall).

It may have a section on wealth creation, which is information others used to create wealth?

But some will see this, especially if the individual hasn't used those methods to create wealth as scammable.

But if a guarantee is present, (and by guarantee, l mean quick and easy to get your money back) then it isn't a scam, just pushing the truth!

I was with an organization that costed me more than $25 per month, and one of the reasons l joined was the individual would very seriously consider some product l developed as long as it had some extra bells and whistles, and was targeted to his list.

I did that with high praise from the people who got it, and eventhough the individual did see it, (he posted a comment on the sales page) nothing!!!

I consider that to be a scammy organization, for saying things and not following through, or getting close to lying for a recurring profit.

I won't drop names, but l pulled that a while ago after being a member for more than 6 months; He also had a friend with another forum, selling stuff, and worded the sales pitch, so it sounded like if l posted there from the recurring cost, club l was in, l would be able to send my product past his list as well.

Didn't happen!!!

So, yeah, fine line between being a liar and sugar coating the truth.

I would sugar coat the truth, but l wouldn't lie outright to get a sale! I certainly feel sorry for the ones that do!

Shane

PS l have been conned a few times, so this is only one example!

PPS it was a quality organization, so it was a pity, they felt they had to step over the line, to keep getting a recurring profit!
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seasoned

11 years ago

Exaggeration to intentionally mislead IS lying!

MOST marketers clearly are. I love(sarc) those that sell a niche and sell maybe 30 different products that say they are far and away THE best in the same areas. The EXACT same areas.

What about one company, that is somehow advertising ALL OVER, radio, TV,web, etc... And they will rename things, exaggerate facts, and REALLY stretch the truth, to describe things to get you to pay sometimes TENS of THOUSANDS of dollars for their products?

You have to wonder... OK, they REALLY expect me to buy ALL of these?

Steve

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tagiscom

11 years ago

Exaggeration to intentionally mislead IS lying!

MOST marketers clearly are. I love(sarc) those that sell a niche and sell maybe 30 different products that say they are far and away THE best in the same areas. The EXACT same areas.

What about one company, that is somehow advertising ALL OVER, radio, TV,web, etc... And they will rename things, exaggerate facts, and REALLY stretch the truth, to describe things to get you to pay sometimes TENS of THOUSANDS of dollars for their products?

You have to wonder... OK, they REALLY expect me to buy ALL of these?

Steve

Sounds like you are describing, a introductory Seminar? You know, "Come to this free seminar, and learn how to create wealth, even if you are comitozed"?

Then buy my s***, or even better spend $5000 grand or more in a series of seminars, that apart from patting the persons head next to you, and exchanging our life storey's, and dancing around a lot, there is no more info, there than reading a $30 book!!!

But, if it is a tax right off, then??? :rolleyes:

Creating wealth isn't quick and easy, unless you win Lotto, and most p*** that away, so creating wealth through dumb luck, is no guarantee.

Shane

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Claude Whitacre

11 years ago

Guys; It was the title of his book. It was provocative to built curiosity...and discussions like this.

It was a brilliant title, because it makes us repeat his name. Excellent marketing, I think.

But he doesn't think all marketers are liars.

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Ken Leatherman

11 years ago

I'm Very, Very, FUNNY, Extremely HANDSOME, Super, Super Duper INTELIGNT and I NEVER EVER EXAGGERATE or tell a LYE when I markIt on line.

The Old Geezer

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yukon

Banned 11 years ago

Scrubs 2 Thumbs - YouTube

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TimothyTorrents

11 years ago

Funny, I just started reading this book.

Half way done!

I learned a lot already. It is definitely worth reading.

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Joel Young

11 years ago

I never lie.

oh... wait.....

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Joel Young

11 years ago

Claude, if I could click the Thanks button more than once you'd have about ten of them for that post!

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Dan Riffle 11 years ago

Originally Posted by Joel Young

Claude, if I could click the Thanks button more than once you'd have about ten of them for that post!

What the hell!? Claude just spun my content and you thank him?!

Just kidding.
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- Ken Leatherman 11 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Dan Riffle
  
  What the hell!? Claude just spun my content and you thank him?!
  
  Just kidding.
  
  Dan,
  
  Please don't feel left out on the thanks. Thank You X 11.
  
  Ken
  
  The Old Thank You Geezer
  
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BHeard

11 years ago

Makes me smile when the true marketer stands up every now and then and is not run over by the BS brigade..

Many many years on in "say it like it is" world of sales and IM territory,
my clients are repeat, I do not have to constantly reinvent everything or find ways to remove myself from a product..

I sometimes fear in the WF we are getting a bit overrun by the BS folks who make a "killing" repeatedly...

You can indeed earn an income from both ways as is testament here, you just have to pick your preference..

One stands the test of time as is, the other makes you stay on your toes and keep reinventing the wheel..

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tmtechno

11 years ago

@BSHeard - hmm, not sure what you mean by BS brigade here. Care to elaborate?

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PROmotions LLC

11 years ago

Some people stretch the truth and basically put glitter on turds to "hype" stuff up and make it look better, a quick use of the brain should thwart this strategy.

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MissTerraK

11 years ago

Originally Posted by PROmotions LLC

Some people stretch the truth and basically put glitter on turds to "hype" stuff up and make it look better, a quick use of the brain should thwart this strategy.

Just like the Miller Park Zoo in Illinois.

In 2009, the Miller Park Zoo in Bloomington, Ill., made nearly $21,000 selling jewelry made from reindeer droppings. The dung is dehydrated, sterilized and sprayed with glitter and then sold as "Magical Reindeer Gems." The jewelry is so popular that the zoo's gift shop regularly sells out. Requests for reindeer poop necklaces have even been made by other countries, but federal regulations don't allow reindeer poop to be exported.

14 examples of eco-fashion gone too far

Terra

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Claude Whitacre 11 years ago

Originally Posted by MissTerraK

Just like the Miller Park Zoo in Illinois.

14 examples of eco-fashion gone too far

Terra

Terra; Yup, that's the kind of offer that you can make money on, that is deceptive crap. And there is always a huge sea of people ready to part with their last dollar because of hope that this will help them in some magical way.
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PROmotions LLC

11 years ago

I always enjoy your posts Miss Terra!! LMAO, that is too funny, I am pretty sure I know a couple of people who would totally purchase those! Reindeer Poop Necklace? Finally jewelry us MEN can wear!

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Dan Riffle 11 years ago

Originally Posted by PROmotions LLC

<snip>Reindeer Poop Necklace? Finally jewelry us MEN can wear!

Speak for yourself. I do my best to make sure I'm not wearing my own poop. I'm certainly not going to wear Rudolph's.
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PROmotions LLC

11 years ago

Give it a shot, you know how "cool" we will look rocking Rudolph Poop around our neck? Um....THE COOLEST.

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ozzie2012

11 years ago

What about used car salesmen? Are they liars?

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Claude Whitacre

11 years ago

Originally Posted by ozzie2012

What about used car salesmen? Are they liars?

Ozzie; Yes. I have talked to every single used car salesman (they are all men), and I have recorded every single one of them lying.

This project took me two years and cost $1,354,957 to produce.

The lie they usually start with is "Hello"....a blatant lie.

When I ask them where the restroom is, they say "Sign this". Another obvious lie. And the pictures of their families at their desk? Those pictures come with every desk. Car salesmen have no families.

Ozzie; I hope I have cleared this up for you. Of course, your question "Are they liars?" is also a lie.

The end.

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Dan Riffle

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

Ozzie; Yes. I have talked to every single used car salesman (they are all men), and I have recorded every single one of them lying.

This project took me two years and cost $1,354,957 to produce.

The lie they usually start with is "Hello"....a blatant lie.

When I ask them where the restroom is, they say "Sign this". Another obvious lie. And the pictures of their families at their desk? Those pictures come with every desk. Car salesmen have no families.

Ozzie; I hope I have cleared this up for you. Of course, your question "Are they liars?" is also a lie.

The end.

Being that Claude is a marketer, everything in the above quote is a lie.

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LarryC

11 years ago

Like most generalizations, it's not accurate to say "all marketers are liars." My complaint with most marketing is that it's cliched, tacky and often insulting to the reader's intelligence.

A good example is Yahoo. The only reason I use it at all is because I've had an email account with them for a long time and it would be inconvenient to drop it. Now Yahoo News mixes in advertisements with news stories. This is not exactly a lie, as they do have the word "ad" in small print somewhere. It is misleading, though, and also insulting. The obvious intent is to trick you into believing it's a news story, yet you'd have to be pretty stupid to fall for it.

I find many common marketing tactics inhabit a similar grey area that is somewhere in between misleading and ethical or sometimes just plain annoying. For example, fake scarcity tactics, pop-ups that appear when you try to exit a page, "personal and confidential" emails sent by list owners, free information that is a pre-sell for an expensive product and so on.

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tagiscom

11 years ago

I find many common marketing tactics inhabit a similar grey area that is somewhere in between misleading and ethical or sometimes just plain annoying. For example, fake scarcity tactics, pop-ups that appear when you try to exit a page, "personal and confidential" emails sent by list owners, free information that is a pre-sell for an expensive product and so on.

Yep, installed a dumb program that was supposedly going to allow me to get something else for free, but it was a con!

I installed it, making sure to avoid the inevitable browser additions, and making it my default page.

And it wouldn't load?

I then found out after uninstalling it, that because l installed something into my browser as well, every time l typed free, it would automatically go to their crappy offer! Grrrrrr!

Then they had the gaull to ask me that they were sorry l pulled the plug, and asked for feedback.

I don't think they would like my feedback, but something along the lines of Lying, con artist, w****, and a***** is getting pretty close to what l wanted to write.

And of course the usual mine field of download here links, although l managed to avoid most of that crap!

Yep, there are some serious liars online!

Shane

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shirleywright83

11 years ago

No, Not all. You just really need to do a little research on the products they sell before purchasing them. You will be amazed that some are not really exaggerating but just stating facts.

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ReferralCandy

11 years ago

"Not liars, storytellers.

Just to be clear, especially if you're just joining us:

The truth is elusive. No one knows the whole truth about anything. We certainly don't know the truth about the things we buy and recommend and use.

What we do know and what we talk about is our story. Our story about why use, recommend or are loyal. Our story about the origin and the impact and the utility.

Marketing is storytelling.

The story of your product, built into your product. The ad might be part of it, the copy might be part of it, but mostly, your product and your service and your people are all part of the story.

Tell it on purpose."

- Seth Godin

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tagiscom

11 years ago

"Not liars, storytellers.

Just to be clear, especially if you're just joining us:

The truth is elusive. No one knows the whole truth about anything. We certainly don't know the truth about the things we buy and recommend and use.

What we do know and what we talk about is our story. Our story about why use, recommend or are loyal. Our story about the origin and the impact and the utility.

Marketing is storytelling.

The story of your product, built into your product. The ad might be part of it, the copy might be part of it, but mostly, your product and your service and your people are all part of the story.

Tell it on purpose."

- Seth Godin

Unfortunately there is a fine line between sugar coating, and not.

I bought a product because it claimed you could make $1500 in a month, (l think it was) and being more gullible back then l thought great, and ordered.

The upsell was for a one off service, which l also got, and then found out l had to go to a IM Conference, and make a deal with a high end product l developed or bought the rights too. Arrrrggggg.

So l pulled the plug, but they still got there $5; but through all the audio tracks l got, there was a small amount of great info, there, so!

So, saying you can make $$$ with this in this time frame, is truthful, but not saying you have to have a great selling product already waiting and be a extravert sales person as well, is pushing it.

Most IM,ers live in caves, and the last thing they would want to do, is sell door to door, or something equally as unappealing.

So saying you can make $$$ by buying our s***, fair enough as long as it doesn't involve a bank heist? :rolleyes: Or coming out of our shells!

Shane

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tmtechno

11 years ago

The fine line between truth and lie tends to be blurred more in service sector. Sales executive are taught to exaggerate the numbers for potential clients - each time they follow a lead. First hand experience.

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praveenshkgp

11 years ago

AS you cant say all politician are liars then how come all marketers are liars

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Anne0521

11 years ago

I Exaggeration is always a part of marketing. Plain truth can be a bit boring. how can you catch the attention of your buyers if you don't bend or exaggerate a few things. Some commercials are funny and look stupid but it's the seller's way of catching the attention of viewers to buy their products. ..Just saying..

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MissTerraK

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Anne0521

I Exaggeration is always a part of marketing. Plain truth can be a bit boring. how can you catch the attention of your buyers if you don't bend or exaggerate a few things. Some commercials are funny and look stupid but it's the seller's way of catching the attention of viewers to buy their products. ..Just saying..

You can catch the reader's attention without exaggeration simply by being creative, original and unique in your presentation of the content.

Terra

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bizgrower

11 years ago

Besides wanting to sleep well, it makes no sense to have a bad reputation in business.

I've had so many customers hang on every word and object if anything is slightly off from what has been represented.

Dan

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bizgrower

11 years ago

Star Trek - Liar Paradox - YouTube

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MissTerraK 11 years ago

Telling the truth works in your favor.

Liar Liar (7/9) Movie CLIP - Roasting the...

Terra
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Igor Fridrihs

11 years ago

Hey,

Marketers are not liars unless they are marketing bad or poor product.
Out customers need help to choosing product. They are unable to find them or unable to choose which one is better.
So who did say we are all liars?

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tmtechno

11 years ago

@MissTerrak - that was hilarious. Saw that recently. Something like this happened once in a previous company i worked for. I was getting frustrated watching people with little skills (well they must've been good at selling now i realize) getting past me to superior post. Then one evening while having a group chat i gave it straight to the boss - nothing hidden. Most others present in the were giving me this weird look while i was talking (shouting actually!). I went home and started looking for openings in newspaper. Next day i came to office - i got an email, i was promoted! It does work sometimes - lol.

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LarryC

11 years ago

Someone posted a link in the main forum that is relevant to this question. It's a long article from a non-marketing website that takes the view that most internet marketing is a scam. It talks about how many IM products aren't really products and how people like Frank Kern and Mike Filsaime are part of a "syndicate" that runs the industry.

It's interesting because it's really not a black and white issue. There are certainly outright ripoffs in marketing, but there's also plenty of gray. For example, if someone makes millions selling a $2000 product and only 1% of the people who buy it succeed, was it a ripoff? You could say that most of the people who failed didn't take action, which is probably true. Yet the product owner probably knows this ahead of time.

When it comes to the idea of a syndicate, the fact is that all of society runs this way. You can't succeed in any industry without knowing the right people. Overall, I think the article is skewed and highly biased against IM, but it's not totally off base.

Scamworld: 'Get rich quick' schemes mutate into an online monster | The Verge

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sincosb 11 years ago

I got laugh out the paradox video.
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All marketers are liars?

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