I Don't Remember The Last Time I Felt So Lost

by Steven Wagenheim 159 replies
Life is so funny.

3 years ago, I was sick as a dog. My health was as bad as it had ever been. I
really didn't think I was going to last much longer. In fact, I almost wished I was
dead.

On the plus side, my business was doing great. I had more money than God.

Flash ahead to 2013. I am now pain free and in excellent health for almost 3
years. It'll be 3 years on September 5. Yes, I celebrate my anniversary.

Not only that, I have my first classical music CD out there and selling.

I am about to complete my first symphony.

My wife and I will be married 29 years on August 25 and we've never been
happier with each other.

I have a bunch of Magic the Gathering friends who I play with on Friday and
Saturday who just love me to pieces. Friday is "Win The Wags Lottery" night
and Saturday is the "Wonderful World Of Wags Legacy" as Sean calls it.

I've been told I'm the most fun player to play against. A night of Magic
without me just isn't a night of Magic.

I have everything a guy could possibly want in his life.

And I've never felt so lost in my life.

My business is non existent, through my own doing and fault so I'm not going
to blame Google or EZA or anything else. I should have adapted. I didn't.

But with all that I have, the fact that I am no longer contributing anything
financially to my family makes me feel pretty worthless. I am currently spending
most of my time at Elance looking for work. So far, no luck. There is so much
that I can do and do well, but when you're competing with people who are
bidding $6 for a writing job it's impossible to compete with that.

One guy is looking for jokes for a routine. I even sent him one as a show of
good faith and a show of my talent for free hoping that I'd get the gig. So
far, nothing. I wouldn't be surprised if he picked somebody else simply because
they bid $6.

I should be so happy right now, and yes, I'm trying to look at all the good
that I have in my life. And believe me, I have a ton of good. And I know there
are people who have it a whole lot worse than I do.

But a man needs to feel that he's worth something. For 10 years, I felt like
I was worth something. I single handed paid off our mortgage and credit
cards thanks to my business. I made it so that my daughter could go to
college debt free.

I'm trying to hold onto all of that, especially my good health which I so used
to take for granted.

It's just not easy.

Funny, years ago, all I had was money.

Now, I have everything but.

You think maybe God has a sense of humor?
#off topic forum
  • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
    You think maybe God has a sense of humor?
    He must have, my social life sucks, and financially, l am probably on the verge of hitting the jackpot!


    But l guess, that means in a month or two, my social life will be great and my financial life will be great as well?


    Well hopefully in a few months, it could be years, Yeeekkk! Now l am getting depressed!


    The universe seems to be clobbering most of us at the moment, which usually means something good is on the horizon, so keep going.


    So, far this week l have learned, that something l lent to a company is gone for good since they got taken over by a rival company, and the f key on my Laptop is acting up. Arrrrrggggg, can it get any worse???


    But on a positive note, it seems that you write music, so maybe this site could help?


    I am using one of these sites for graphics, with very promising results, so if you need any tips to make this site cough up, let me know.

    All the best!

    Shane

    Royalty Free Music - Sound Effects - Stock Audio | AudioJungle


    PS. also keep in mind J K Rowling, before publishing Harry Potter was having such bad luck that she was scared she would wake up one morning, and find that her daughter died in her sleep.

    Food for thought!

    This is a very common occurrence for individual on the verge of success.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jason Kanigan
    Steven,

    How are you positioning yourself?

    What are you doing to market your services?

    Elance is a low bidder marketplace. I did a couple jobs there in 2011, even one for $3000, and got out of there as fast as I could. Closed my account. Scratching around for a couple hundred bucks of crumbs on gig sites just ain't worth it.

    You can do better than Elance. Is there a topic that people want to know about that you are experienced with? Maybe a specific blog is the way to go. There must be companies that will pay you well for articles on their subject matter--but they don't know you exist.

    I think the biggest concern you have is No Focus. Once you pick a direction, you'll be able to pick the means of promoting your services and get on with it.
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Originally Posted by Jason Kanigan View Post

      You can do better than Elance.
      Such as? Where can I go to find work? Monster.com? Are they even still around
      and do those sites hire freelancers or are we talking regular 9 to 5 brick and
      mortar jobs? Because that's what those job sites were like back in 2000. It
      was essentially businesses looking to hire employees to work on site. I'm not
      looking for another 9 to 5 commute on the parkway during rush hour both ways.

      I want to work from home, on what I want, when I want. And if beggars can't
      be choosers, fine. But I'm not going back to the rat face. I'd rather be dead.
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      • Profile picture of the author Jason Kanigan
        Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

        Such as? Where can I go to find work? Monster.com? Are they even still around
        and do those sites hire freelancers or are we talking regular 9 to 5 brick and
        mortar jobs? Because that's what those job sites were like back in 2000. It
        was essentially businesses looking to hire employees to work on site. I'm not
        looking for another 9 to 5 commute on the parkway during rush hour both ways.

        I want to work from home, on what I want, when I want. And if beggars can't
        be choosers, fine. But I'm not going back to the rat face. I'd rather be dead.
        Nope. No grind. Here's what I'd do in your shoes:

        1. Identify what I like to talk about--that matches up with a high-ticket market.

        (For me, it was scientific and testing equipment, and I got paid $100 for a 600 word article.)

        2. Get a list of companies together that are in that niche.

        3. Identify the Marketing Manager of each company.

        4. Communicate with them, by phone or email or smoke signals, that you do what you do, and can help them get very interested prospective customers through unique and accurate articles. Write a sample or two to share.

        5. Charge large. If it's an $800 product or a $2500 product, and they'll sell 3 or 5 a month more because of your article, isn't your article worth at least $100? Probably more.

        (I quit writing these articles because it wasn't worth my time after a point--I could earn more doing what I do now.)
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        • Originally Posted by Jason Kanigan View Post

          Nope. No grind. Here's what I'd do in your shoes:

          1. Identify what I like to talk about--that matches up with a high-ticket market.

          (For me, it was scientific and testing equipment, and I got paid $100 for a 600 word article.)

          2. Get a list of companies together that are in that niche.

          3. Identify the Marketing Manager of each company.

          4. Communicate with them, by phone or email or smoke signals, that you do what you do, and can help them get very interested prospective customers through unique and accurate articles. Write a sample or two to share.

          5. Charge large. If it's an $800 product or a $2500 product, and they'll sell 3 or 5 a month more because of your article, isn't your article worth at least $100? Probably more.

          (I quit writing these articles because it wasn't worth my time after a point--I could earn more doing what I do now.)
          This is a great plan. If you like to write, and can find a B2B market that appeals to you (health, tech, finance, engineering, etc), you'll find plenty of business. Trust me, they can't write, much less write to sell.

          They think nothing of paying $100 or more per article. After that, $1200 case studies and $5000 white papers are just a step away. Why would they pay $5,000 for a 3000-word white paper? A well-written white paper will play a major part in selling million dollar software or equipment for several years. (Jeez, I need to raise my prices.)
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          Marketing is not a battle of products. It is a battle of perceptions.
          - Jack Trout
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  • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
    Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

    But a man needs to feel that he's worth something. For 10 years, I felt like
    I was worth something. I single handed paid off our mortgage and credit
    cards thanks to my business. I made it so that my daughter could go to
    college debt free.
    The fact that this bothers you is a big plus. This isn't an "either/or" thing. You can have a great family life and plenty of money.

    What is it you do? What's you area of expertise?

    Sorry, if you've said it earlier.
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  • Profile picture of the author thunderbird
    Steven, you know what to do. You're a composer. What would you do for another composer who hired you to promote his/her work? Do that for yourself.]

    (See you at the Oscars)
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  • Profile picture of the author KimW
    Steven,
    update and revise your products.You had a great market before, you have a ready made one waiting to see your take on today.
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Originally Posted by KimW View Post

      Steven,
      update and revise your products.You had a great market before, you have a ready made one waiting to see your take on today.
      The problem is, my main method of marketing (using articles) is dead, at least
      for me. I can't generate a list anymore through it and I don't know any other
      way to generate traffic other than to pay for it and I just don't have the money
      to do that. My last products I've made (all new and updated) sold between
      5 and 10 copies a piece for about $300 profit. Sure, I could do that weekly
      and make $1,200 a month, but that's a lot of work for $1,200. If I find that I
      have no other choice, sure, that's what I'll do. But right now I'm pursuing other
      options.

      As always, thanks for the suggestions and the support.
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  • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
    How about composing music for business marketing or training ads and videos, or for documentaries?
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    "If you think you're the smartest person in the room, then you're probably in the wrong room."

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    • Profile picture of the author marketingva
      Hi Steven,

      How about creating music for videos? I know there are lots of people who have problems finding music that they can use legally on videos. The other thing that comes to mind are book trailers. They might need custom music. You could offer this service to businesses that create the trailers.

      Bonnie
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      http://www.mwauthorservices.com

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      • Profile picture of the author thunderbird
        Originally Posted by marketingva View Post

        Hi Steven,

        How about creating music for videos? I know there are lots of people who have problems finding music that they can use legally on videos. The other thing that comes to mind are book trailers. They might need custom music. You could offer this service to businesses that create the trailers.

        Bonnie
        That is totally true. I think that Steven would find a very receptive audience with emerging filmmakers/video-producers (and have lots of fun I bet), as well as with established ones too through the right channels (eg Linkedin). The international film festival circuit would be a great way to broadcast one's work.
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        • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
          Originally Posted by bizgrower View Post

          How about composing music for business marketing or training ads and videos, or for documentaries?
          Originally Posted by marketingva View Post

          Hi Steven,

          How about creating music for videos? I know there are lots of people who have problems finding music that they can use legally on videos. The other thing that comes to mind are book trailers. They might need custom music. You could offer this service to businesses that create the trailers.

          Bonnie
          Originally Posted by thunderbird View Post

          That is totally true. I think that Steven would find a very receptive audience with emerging filmmakers/video-producers (and have lots of fun I bet), as well as with established ones too through the right channels (eg Linkedin). The international film festival circuit would be a great way to broadcast one's work.
          These are all great ideas. I have no clue how to find these people. I've tried
          Elance but I can't compete against the bids from third world composers who
          are willing to write a whole score for $6.

          It isn't a question of what I can do. It's a question of how to reach my target
          market. So far, I have been unsuccessful in doing that.
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          • Profile picture of the author thunderbird
            Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

            These are all great ideas. I have no clue how to find these people. I've tried
            Elance but I can't compete against the bids from third world composers who
            are willing to write a whole score for $6.

            It isn't a question of what I can do. It's a question of how to reach my target
            market. So far, I have been unsuccessful in doing that.
            Just go to filmmaker networking events and suchlike. It's amazing what can happen just by meeting people. This kind of thing can be good:
            New Jersey Filmmakers Network (Somerset, NJ) - Meetup
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          • Profile picture of the author marketingva
            Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

            These are all great ideas. I have no clue how to find these people. I've tried
            Elance but I can't compete against the bids from third world composers who
            are willing to write a whole score for $6.

            It isn't a question of what I can do. It's a question of how to reach my target
            market. So far, I have been unsuccessful in doing that.
            Hi Steven,

            There are tons of companies that create book trailers for authors. I find them using Google search for "book trailers" and going through the results. I would send them each an e-mail asking if they are looking for someone to create music for trailers. You would not find these jobs on Elance... you have to contact the companies yourself. Some of them will say no but I bet some would say yes.

            Bonnie
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          • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
            Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

            These are all great ideas. I have no clue how to find these people. I've tried
            Elance but I can't compete against the bids from third world composers who
            are willing to write a whole score for $6.

            It isn't a question of what I can do. It's a question of how to reach my target
            market. So far, I have been unsuccessful in doing that.
            You mastered the marketing you did before. You can master the marketing of the music you compose. Follow the bread crumbs.


            http://taxi.com and other sites



            Network with other musicians doing these type of things.

            Contact ad agencies, marketing service providers, and companies that make training or documentary films.

            Also contact local TV and radio stations. A lot of time they create the jingles and background music for their advertisers. Or, they know who does.

            Post original music services on fiverr.
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            "If you think you're the smartest person in the room, then you're probably in the wrong room."

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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Steve --
    You are in a proverbial "rut". Here's what I do if I were in your shoes:

    Get out into nature and take those things off. Let your body do the natural electromagnetic grounding it is supposed to do. Nature immersion is great for restoring a sense of perspective and letting your mind roam on it's own volition. When the mind is freed, and you put yourself into a natural environment, it gives you back your perspective and allows your creative brain to tie up the loose ends of problems you are having. EVERYTHING I have ever done that was healthful and good came as a result of nature immersion.

    Even it if doesn't completely answer all of your questions, it will refresh you, give you a new environment to relieve senses that become dull from the SO SO they are usually immersed in. You may think you are healthy - but true health and true energy alignment can only be achieved through a link with the natural state of the planet.

    Serious as a crutch - try it before you knock it. Go to a quiet beach, mountaintop or forest and just be for a day or two.
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    New PLR - Disaster prep duo report pkg: The Art of the Graceful Bug out, and Preparing Pets for a Disaster. - PM me for report details.
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  • Profile picture of the author yukon
    Put some music on AudioJungle, it's free.

    If you have a bunch of old music you've made & it's not making any money, upload it to AJ, see If it starts making money. Look around AJ & see what sells the most, can you do the same/better?

    Most of that audio on AJ is very short TV commercial type jingles.

    This single audio made $1,088 in sales last week (recurring income on auto pilot).

    BTW, you don't have to be a best seller on any Envato store to make good money.


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  • Profile picture of the author SandraLarkin
    Banned
    Can't you just replicate everything you did before to make you successful? Those principles still hold true today.
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Originally Posted by SandraLarkin View Post

      Can't you just replicate everything you did before to make you successful? Those principles still hold true today.
      No, I can't. Because the methods I used to generate traffic to my sites don't
      work anymore since Penguin and Panda. Long story that I just don't want to
      rehash. In short, I didn't adapt and my business died.

      Trust me, I'm not the only one this has happened to.
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      • Profile picture of the author SandraLarkin
        Banned
        Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

        No, I can't. Because the methods I used to generate traffic to my sites don't
        work anymore since Penguin and Panda. Long story that I just don't want to
        rehash. In short, I didn't adapt and my business died.

        Trust me, I'm not the only one this has happened to.
        I understand totally. This was the same reason I stopped CPA marketing a while back. Too much uncertainty.
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        • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
          Originally Posted by SandraLarkin View Post

          I understand totally. This was the same reason I stopped CPA marketing a while back. Too much uncertainty.
          It's not even a question of uncertainty. I know exactly what I'm going to get out
          of doing what I used to do, nothing. It flat out just doesn't work anymore.

          Honestly, I don't even know how article directories stay in business anymore.
          EZA's traffic is a fraction of what it used to be as Google has essentially
          buried them.

          My articles used to get hundreds if not thousands of views. Now they get maybe
          10 to 20. It's a total waste of time.

          I don't have the money to pay for traffic and my sites, even the one with
          thousands of articles on it, simply don't rank. For the life of me I can't figure
          out why but they just don't

          7 years of writing and I have nothing to show for it.

          Totally boggles my mind.
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          • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
            Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

            7 years of writing and I have nothing to show for it.
            How about making some PLR bundles out of them and post a WSO?

            If you like to write take that one step further and start a membership service where you offer X number of PLR articles a month.

            How about making music blurbs for video intros and outros? When I make videos I almost always start and end them with a 5-10 second music blurb. Finding the right stuff isn't easy. Bundle up 25, or 50 or even 100 short pieces from 5 to 30 seconds and sell as a WSO for video productions. Maybe toss in a few longer pieces too.

            Offer the buyers a few more music blurbs for signing up to your mailing list and you have proven buyers for your next music bundle, plus you can do traditional email marketing with them. That would keep you doing what you love - music.

            Start a website selling them as well. And higher-end custom music. The custom music probably wouldn't happen for a while, until you start building a name in that industry, but then again you never know.
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            • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
              Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post

              How about making some PLR bundles out of them and post a WSO?

              If you like to write take that one step further and start a membership service where you offer X number of PLR articles a month.

              How about making music blurbs for video intros and outros? When I make videos I almost always start and end them with a 5-10 second music blurb. Finding the right stuff isn't easy. Bundle up 25, or 50 or even 100 short pieces from 5 to 30 seconds and sell as a WSO for video productions. Maybe toss in a few longer pieces too.

              Offer the buyers a few more music blurbs for signing up to your mailing list and you have proven buyers for your next music bundle, plus you can do traditional email marketing with them. That would keep you doing what you love - music.

              Start a website selling them as well. And higher-end custom music. The custom music probably wouldn't happen for a while, until you start building a name in that industry, but then again you never know.
              See, these are all great ideas. I just have no idea what kind of demand, if
              any, there is for this stuff since I've never tried selling it before. I've never
              seen music WSOs in this forum. Don't you think there's at least ONE composer
              in this forum who has researched the market and, if discovered to be viable,
              has launched a music related WSO?

              The one site I used to get my music clips from, before I started writing, was
              a free site. I don't even know how this guy makes any money at all. And yes,
              I've been thinking of contacting him to see if he could use a partner. But if
              he's doing this for little or no profit, what's the point?

              To the poster who suggested JVs, please don't even go there. I've tried. I
              won't go into detail but let's just say they don't work for a variety of reasons.
              Sure, I can go to the JV forum and make a thread "Looking for a JV." In fact,
              I did. With my name and rep, no prob. The one didn't make one sale. The
              other, well, let's just say it's never getting off the ground and I'm leaving it
              at that. Another, the personality conflict was just too great and yes, I'll put
              that one on me. But some people are just not cut out to work together.

              Point is, for me, at least of late, I can't make a JV work. When I was successful,
              all my JV's worked. I remember the ones I did with John Rhodes. We were
              amazing together.

              Today, everything I touch turns to crap. No, I don't believe in bad luck or
              any of that voodoo stuff, but I'm starting to think maybe somewhere I shot
              a leprechaun's cat or something.

              What I need right now is a business manager, somebody who knows the music
              business and all the avenues where I can make money in it, such as royalty
              free music, and tell me what to do and how to do it. The problem is, such a
              manager would cost me a fortune and I don't have the money. He'd have to
              work for a percentage of the profits and nobody is going to do that. So I'm
              back at square one.

              And if you go to Google and look up Royalty Free Music, the first site listed
              is this one.

              Royalty-Free Music Online for Production Music, Hold Music & More

              I can't compete with that. Pages and pages of music clips in just about every
              conceivable style. It would take me years just to write and record all that
              music.

              Finally, and maybe Sal has a valid point, my brain is just fried right now. I
              can't think. I don't know where to begin and on what. I look at my computer
              screen and it's like this big black hole.

              But what this all boils down to is this. I don't want to spend countless months
              or years on something only to find out that there's no money in it. I need to
              know that whatever it is I'm going to tackle, as soon as I'm finished putting
              it together, I WILL make money from it. Believe it or not, that's how it used
              to be for me. I almost NEVER had a loser. Everything I ever created, outside
              of my Diceology book series, made me money. And even that made a few
              sales.

              So yes, I'm looking for a guarantee. And until I find that project that I'm at
              least 99% sure will make me money when it's done, I'm not just going to dive
              into something in the hope that it pays off.

              And further down the rabbit hole, what this REALLY all boils down to is need.

              I simply don't NEED the money right now. Not yet anyway. In fact, I may
              never need it. Between my wife's pension and tax shelter when she retires and
              the fact that we simply have no debt anymore, we can probably live off of
              that.

              But this isn't about money. It never was. It's about my pride and self worth.

              I can't live off my wife's pension and tax shelter. I need to feel like I matter.
              It's because of that, that I realize I can never retire completely. I have to
              work. And right now, that's all I want to do, find a job and make a few bucks.

              It seems I can't even do that. Not when I'm competing against third world
              marketers bidding $6 for a job that shouldn't pay less than $100 to do.

              Yes, Elance is probably a waste of my time but I don't know where else to go.

              Heck, I contacted the Detroit Symphony Orchestra about an opportunity and
              they won't even write back to me. That's another problem that seems to be
              so common in this world today. If you're a nobody, people don't even write
              back to you.

              I contacted a member of this forum begging for help. They didn't even have
              the decency to write me back and say "Sorry, I can't help you."

              So when the world essentially just doesn't give a crap, you ultimately have
              to do this by yourself. That becomes very hard to do when you don't know
              what to do.

              Hire a mentor myself? Great. Don't have that kind of money.

              So I'm back at square one.

              If you asked me back in 2009 if I ever thought I'd be here, I would have
              laughed in your face.

              Life can be very humbling.

              Anyway, back to Elance this morning to see who else won't hire me because
              I won't do the job for $6.
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              • Profile picture of the author AnneE
                Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

                .... Don't you think there's at least ONE composer
                in this forum who has researched the market and, if discovered to be viable,
                has launched a music related WSO?

                .....

                Royalty-Free Music Online for Production Music, Hold Music & More
                I can't compete with that....
                .
                First, you sound tired. Sal is probably right that you should get your butt outside and go to a place that inspires you. Take a walk, smell some flowers.

                BUT.... when you come back in, I think you are completely wrong about music NOT working as a WSO. And frankly.... if you are right, it will cost you $40 to find out, so why not try. One of us can have the satisfaction of saying, "told you so". But back to why I think there is a need for royalty-free music WSO's. Because I bought one 3 or 4 years ago. It came with MRR. It was crap. The music was awful, nothing that I wanted to listen to at all.

                I buy music off iStockphoto.com -- yes, they sell audio too. The music is NOT cheap and there are some restrictions, like you can't use it as theme music, meaning you can't create a series of audiobooks or videos and use the same music at the start of each of them.

                But my point is that link that you showed us, sure they have tons of music in tons of styles. You don't have to offer something for everyone. If you put up even a dozen pieces of music and I liked a couple of them and I could purchase unlimited use of them for my own use -- NOT resale rights, I'd pay $17 or more for that, maybe more. I just paid $40 to use a song off iStockphoto for my audiobook. You would need to let us listen to them, like people can do on iStockphoto.com -- they overlay the music with an annoying voice so people can't steal the music.

                If you REALLY don't believe me that this will sell as a WSO, I'll partner with you... do all the work, write up the WSO, for a tiny fraction of the profits. Just throwing the idea out there. Feel free to PM me.

                Anne

                P.S. As a bonus for the WSO, you could write up a quick how-to of using Audacity, so people understand how to add music to voice -- in case they don't know. Or I will, if you are interested in that partnering/JV offer of mine
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                • Profile picture of the author Kay King
                  Anne - I think you're on to something and I'd take it a step further.

                  One problem people making videos can have is finding music they can use without legal repercussions.

                  What about composing music on demand? Someone needs upbeat music, or a rock beat or a classical sound for a 2-10 minute video...Steve has the equipment to do that.

                  There are people who write greeting card verses; people who compose jingles to sell for TV commercials; people who do custom graphics for products...why not someone who composes music designed just for your application?
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                  • Profile picture of the author travlinguy
                    Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                    One problem people making videos can have is finding music they can use without legal repercussions.
                    I used to think this too. But the truth is, there is a MASSIVE amount of "do whatever you want with it" PLR music out there. Everything from techno to classical. I needed some music for a project earlier this year and did a search.

                    I ended up with more than 1000 tracks for under $30. Most came from a particular wholesale PLR membership site. In the past I paid as much as $60 for a 10-minute clip.

                    There's a guy who is a member here that churns it out like a machine and it's really good quality stuff, amazing actually. And it's cheap.

                    That's not to say someone couldn't compete but there is plenty of good material out there for those willing to look around a bit.
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                • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
                  Originally Posted by AnneE View Post

                  First, you sound tired. Sal is probably right that you should get your butt outside and go to a place that inspires you. Take a walk, smell some flowers.

                  BUT.... when you come back in, I think you are completely wrong about music NOT working as a WSO. And frankly.... if you are right, it will cost you $40 to find out, so why not try. One of us can have the satisfaction of saying, "told you so". But back to why I think there is a need for royalty-free music WSO's. Because I bought one 3 or 4 years ago. It came with MRR. It was crap. The music was awful, nothing that I wanted to listen to at all.

                  I buy music off iStockphoto.com -- yes, they sell audio too. The music is NOT cheap and there are some restrictions, like you can't use it as theme music, meaning you can't create a series of audiobooks or videos and use the same music at the start of each of them.

                  But my point is that link that you showed us, sure they have tons of music in tons of styles. You don't have to offer something for everyone. If you put up even a dozen pieces of music and I liked a couple of them and I could purchase unlimited use of them for my own use -- NOT resale rights, I'd pay $17 or more for that, maybe more. I just paid $40 to use a song off iStockphoto for my audiobook. You would need to let us listen to them, like people can do on iStockphoto.com -- they overlay the music with an annoying voice so people can't steal the music.

                  If you REALLY don't believe me that this will sell as a WSO, I'll partner with you... do all the work, write up the WSO, for a tiny fraction of the profits. Just throwing the idea out there. Feel free to PM me.

                  Anne

                  P.S. As a bonus for the WSO, you could write up a quick how-to of using Audacity, so people understand how to add music to voice -- in case they don't know. Or I will, if you are interested in that partnering/JV offer of mine
                  Anne, thanks. This is very kind of you. I am seriously considering doing this.
                  But if we do, you're not just getting a small percentage. That's not how I do
                  things.

                  Where I'm going to need your help is with exactly what kind of pieces to write.
                  I don't really know what people are looking for. Is it hard rock? Is it classical?
                  Is it movie type themes?

                  Right now I'm nursing a terrible cold and can just about think. When I'm back
                  on my feet, I'll PM you and we can start working on something.

                  I am very serious about this.
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                  • Profile picture of the author AnneE
                    Right now I'm nursing a terrible cold and can just about think. When I'm back
                    on my feet, I'll PM you and we can start working on something.
                    Cool! I'm trying to team up with folks as part of an overall strategy. Sometimes it's easier to wax poetic about another person's efforts. Also, I've noticed when I team up with someone, often their day of being discouraged is a day when I'm fired up and ready to go and vice versa.

                    So get better and meanwhile I'm going to see if I can track down the info above about decent music PLR being available. Because what I found was expensive or crap. I can believe there might be something I missed, but it certainly isn't a saturated market.

                    Talk to you later,
                    Anne
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                  • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
                    Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

                    Where I'm going to need your help is with exactly what kind of pieces to write.
                    I don't really know what people are looking for. Is it hard rock? Is it classical?
                    Is it movie type themes?
                    I buy music for video intros and outros. I've used classical, rock, blues, choir, kids music, and new age/ambient music. The kind of video I'm making usually tells me what kind of music has the feel I want to convey.

                    So for me, variety is the key because I don't want to have the same feel in every video.

                    Most of what I use would be called stingers. Short 8 to 15 second pieces. Good ones are hard to find so I usually have crop them out of full songs. For marketers, I would think stingers for intros, outros, and bridge pieces would be popular.

                    Full songs would appeal to those making slide show videos without narration. Seems to be a lot of those around too. I can PM the URL to a couple of mine to show you how I use them if it helps.
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                  • Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post


                    Where I'm going to need your help is with exactly what kind of pieces to write.
                    I don't really know what people are looking for. Is it hard rock? Is it classical?
                    Is it movie type themes?
                    One market that is growing rapidly is explainer videos. They need bg music that runs up to 90 seconds or so. Here are a few examples from one company.

                    http://www.videoexplainers.com/portfolio/industry
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          • Profile picture of the author bwh1
            Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

            It's not even a question of uncertainty. I know exactly what I'm going to get out
            of doing what I used to do, nothing. It flat out just doesn't work anymore.

            Honestly, I don't even know how article directories stay in business anymore.
            EZA's traffic is a fraction of what it used to be as Google has essentially
            buried them.

            My articles used to get hundreds if not thousands of views. Now they get maybe
            10 to 20. It's a total waste of time.

            I don't have the money to pay for traffic and my sites, even the one with
            thousands of articles on it, simply don't rank. For the life of me I can't figure
            out why but they just don't

            7 years of writing and I have nothing to show for it.

            Totally boggles my mind.
            Steven

            if I could write like you do I would

            A - write my own unique "How To's" and sell them here with PLR

            B - Offer copywriting and sales letters

            C - search for a niche inside the new and rising medias like Kindle and Apple News stand and create content for those.

            Wishing you much success, just do it man.

            G.
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          • Profile picture of the author robofx
            Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

            Honestly, I don't even know how article directories stay in business anymore.
            EZA's traffic is a fraction of what it used to be as Google has essentially
            buried them.
            I'm confused. Does this mean that article syndication no longer works??? :confused:

            I've followed everything that Alexa Smith has written here and she makes it clear (and her reputation is absolutely *sterling*) that article syndication does work - and works very well.

            So I don't understand what it is exactly you're doing wrong in terms of article syndication and Ezine Articles etc.
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            • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
              Google doesn't rank Ezinearticles' content as highly as it used to so many people who relied on them to get traffic aren't getting as much traffic. Speaking of Alexa, check out the traffic stats for ezinearticles which at one time was closing in on a top 100 site a couple years ago:

              Ezinearticles.com Site Info

              Originally Posted by robofx View Post

              I'm confused. Does this mean that article syndication no longer works??? :confused:

              I've followed everything that Alexa Smith has written here and she makes it clear (and her reputation is absolutely *sterling*) that article syndication does work - and works very well.

              So I don't understand what it is exactly you're doing wrong in terms of article syndication and Ezine Articles etc.
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              • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
                Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

                Google doesn't rank Ezinearticles' content as highly as it used to so many people who relied on them to get traffic aren't getting as much traffic. Speaking of Alexa, check out the traffic stats for ezinearticles which at one time was closing in on a top 100 site a couple years ago:

                Ezinearticles.com Site Info
                The graph at the top of the page showing the traffic decline looks bad, but they're still ranked (according to Alexa) #758 in the world. One of my sites ranks at around 91,000 and it gets 100,000 to 200,000 unique visitors each month. EZA still has to be pulling in an enviable amount of traffic.
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                • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
                  Your site might be getting more traffic than Ezinearticles pretty soon. Back in feb 2011 EA took a big hit which doesn't show in the Alexa graph. Some said their traffic went from 60 million to about 30 million a month. With the continued drop, according to Alexa and other sites like searchmetrics and sistrix, I'm guessing their traffic is getting closer to 10 million or less a month which isn't a lot considering the number of articles it has. Edit: I just checked Compete.com and they estimate EA's trafic in the US to be 3.6 million. EA has 7.2 million pages indexed by Google.
                  Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post

                  The graph at the top of the page showing the traffic decline looks bad, but they're still ranked (according to Alexa) #758 in the world. One of my sites ranks at around 91,000 and it gets 100,000 to 200,000 unique visitors each month. EZA still has to be pulling in an enviable amount of traffic.
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              • Profile picture of the author bwh1
                Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

                Google doesn't rank Ezinearticles' content as highly as it used to so many people who relied on them to get traffic aren't getting as much traffic. Speaking of Alexa, check out the traffic stats for ezinearticles which at one time was closing in on a top 100 site a couple years ago:

                Ezinearticles.com Site Info
                Ouch, and from that 50% comes from India, Pakistan and similar regions.

                Not that those aren't potential buyers but if you target US, UK and similar readers then you have to cut that traffic in half.

                I guess the main reason to use EA today is getting high quality articles syndicated so the traffic comes from those republishing sources like Blogs etc.

                G.
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            • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
              Originally Posted by robofx View Post

              I'm confused. Does this mean that article syndication no longer works??? :confused:

              I've followed everything that Alexa Smith has written here and she makes it clear (and her reputation is absolutely *sterling*) that article syndication does work - and works very well.

              So I don't understand what it is exactly you're doing wrong in terms of article syndication and Ezine Articles etc.
              I think Alexa, the person - not the site, would write that article syndication works because it does not rely on search engine traffic or traffic from article directories, and so is protected from such things as the Google animals, rules and tactics.

              Instead, article syndication works because it is more about getting your articles on publications relevant to your niche. Taking advantage of the facts that people go to the internet to find good information, and that Google changes are actually trying to help get rid of the stuff that makes it difficult to find the good information.
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              • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
                Well, I thought I'd update everybody on my PLR experiment.

                I put together a package of 50 IM related articles and 14 e-books. I broke them
                up into 4 separate packages starting at just $9.

                I launched the WSO yesterday as well as emailing my list.

                Today, I dropped off of page 1.

                These are my stats for the launch.

                200 WSO Views

                5 Sales

                Total Income = $168

                WSO Cost = $40

                Net Profit = $128

                Nothing to write home about.

                Do you have any idea how long it would take me to write another 50 articles
                and 14 e-books?

                Maybe PLR sells. But this didn't.

                So now I'm moving onto something else because doing the same thing over
                and over and expecting different results is the very definition of insanity.

                Thanks for the suggestion but it didn't work.
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                • Profile picture of the author travlinguy
                  Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

                  Well, I thought I'd update everybody on my PLR experiment.

                  I put together a package of 50 IM related articles and 14 e-books. I broke them
                  up into 4 separate packages starting at just $9.

                  I launched the WSO yesterday as well as emailing my list.

                  Today, I dropped off of page 1.

                  These are my stats for the launch.

                  200 WSO Views

                  5 Sales

                  Total Income = $168

                  WSO Cost = $40

                  Net Profit = $128

                  Nothing to write home about.

                  Do you have any idea how long it would take me to write another 50 articles
                  and 14 e-books?

                  Maybe PLR sells. But this didn't.

                  So now I'm moving onto something else because doing the same thing over
                  and over and expecting different results is the very definition of insanity.

                  Thanks for the suggestion but it didn't work.
                  They're not selling because this has become a marketplace where the majority believes they can buy great content for $5 a pop. Almost no one here appreciates good content and people who do pretty much have their writers identified.

                  If you want to swim in this pool go through a bunch of your old stuff and rewrite it to meet whatever ridiculous "originality" percentage is in vogue and then sell it cheap. And don't be afraid to sell hundreds of packs. That's the PLR market these days.
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                  • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
                    Originally Posted by travlinguy View Post

                    They're not selling because this has become a marketplace where the majority believes they can buy great content for $5 a pop. Almost no one here appreciates good content and people who do pretty much have their writers identified.

                    If you want to swim in this pool go through a bunch of your old stuff and rewrite it to meet whatever ridiculous "originality" percentage is in vogue and then sell it cheap. And don't be afraid to sell hundreds of packs. That's the PLR market these days.
                    Thanks, but no thanks.
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                • Profile picture of the author bwh1
                  Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

                  Well, I thought I'd update everybody on my PLR experiment.

                  I put together a package of 50 IM related articles and 14 e-books. I broke them
                  up into 4 separate packages starting at just $9.

                  I launched the WSO yesterday as well as emailing my list.

                  Today, I dropped off of page 1.

                  These are my stats for the launch.

                  200 WSO Views

                  5 Sales

                  Total Income = $168

                  WSO Cost = $40

                  Net Profit = $128

                  Nothing to write home about.

                  Do you have any idea how long it would take me to write another 50 articles
                  and 14 e-books?

                  Maybe PLR sells. But this didn't.

                  So now I'm moving onto something else because doing the same thing over
                  and over and expecting different results is the very definition of insanity.

                  Thanks for the suggestion but it didn't work.
                  What is a barrier IMO with your WSO is that you offer several prices. Looks a bit "complicated" and also is over the average WSO front end price.

                  I bet it would have sold more if you make that famous ridiculous front end offer for 7 bucks and then offer the reports as an OTO.

                  I also would throw in some graphics for whom purchases the OTO as bonus.

                  WSO's in the front end need to be a no brainer in terms of Offer vs. Price.

                  One problem - one solution - one price.

                  Also, with all the newer folks in here which are "visually handicapped" and don't read, they need the Clickbank sales page look, your WSO doesn't look "cool" what turns most of them off right away.

                  Last, did you invite some of the heavy PLR sellers to be an affiliate?

                  This Forum changed a lot in the last few months in terms of running a WSO and it's much closer to the traditional launches where the front end covers basically the costs and is aimed to build your list while you make some money over the OTO.

                  I didn't launched my WSO (yet) but I will follow those strategy when I do.

                  I would rework yours or ask someone to JV to do so and then bump it again to see the difference.

                  G.
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                  • Profile picture of the author Nate Simms
                    Originally Posted by bwh1 View Post

                    Also, with all the newer folks in here which are "visually handicapped" and don't read, they need the Clickbank sales page look, your WSO doesn't look "cool" what turns most of them off right away.
                    Sad, but true.

                    That abomination of a banner at the top of the page has to go. It just gives the vibe that everything about the WSO (including the PLR itself) is outdated and poor quality.

                    And, this kind of ties in with the quality of the banner: no snippet from one of the articles as a sample? I am not going to 'blindly' purchase a PLR product without a little bit of quality assurance.

                    ... and as BWH1 as noted, the pricing structure is far too complicated for a typical WSO.

                    Anyways, the least successful WSO is the one you do not launch. You did make a profit from it, so you got that going for 'ya.
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                  • Profile picture of the author Kay King
                    What it tells me is that members here aren't as gullible as some want to believe. Studying WSO sales is not the same as studying what good PLR is and why it sells.

                    The advice was to write PLR articles and sell them as a WSO.

                    Instead, the WSO is a list of old articles submitted to EZA and Steven's blog in past years. I thought perhaps they were rewritten - but the titles and word counts match EZA exactly. If that's what you want to sell, fine - but it's not truly "PLR" material.

                    Old ebooks have value as PLR as they can be reworked. Old articles already indexed by the seller - highly personalized in the first person with specific experiences, timelines, etc of the author - do not have value as PLR.

                    Limited PLR should be freshly written, topic driven material that can easily fit on someone else's site or blog. Price it right and it will sell - and it's the end total of sales that is the price paid for the article.

                    I believe you can burn out to the point where you just can't face doing the same things again. That may be the case with Steven at this point.

                    If you want to get ahead in IM you have to work at it. If you want to sell writing, you have to keep writing. If that holds no interest for you - you need to find something outside IM that does excite you and has profit potential.
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                    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
                      Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                      What it tells me is that members here aren't as gullible as some want to believe. Studying WSO sales is not the same as studying what good PLR is and why it sells.

                      The advice was to write PLR articles and sell them as a WSO.

                      Instead, the WSO is a list of old articles submitted to EZA and Steven's blog in past years. I thought perhaps they were rewritten - but the titles and word counts match EZA exactly. If that's what you want to sell, fine - but it's not truly "PLR" material.

                      Old ebooks have value as PLR as they can be reworked. Old articles already indexed by the seller - highly personalized in the first person with specific experiences, timelines, etc of the author - do not have value as PLR.

                      Limited PLR should be freshly written, topic driven material that can easily fit on someone else's site or blog. Price it right and it will sell - and it's the end total of sales that is the price paid for the article.

                      I believe you can burn out to the point where you just can't face doing the same things again. That may be the case with Steven at this point.

                      If you want to get ahead in IM you have to work at it. If you want to sell writing, you have to keep writing. If that holds no interest for you - you need to find something outside IM that does excite you and has profit potential.
                      That's what I like about you Kay. You just get right to the heart of the matter.

                      I have another idea that was actually given to me by somebody in this thread
                      and I think it's brilliant. I'm going to do this right.

                      I'm not giving any info on what I'm doing because I don't want anybody to
                      steal the idea but if I'm right on this one, it's probably going to be one of my
                      biggest selling WSOs ever.

                      And if not, and it bombs out, then I'll know I'm just not cut out for this niche
                      anymore and I need to do something else with my life.

                      Thanks for keeping it real.
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                      • Profile picture of the author Kay King
                        Steven -

                        It's hard to impress me - but you just did it. A few years ago you would have gone ballistic at that type of advice.

                        I've hit burnout myself a couple times over the years in IM - and when I do, I just stop. I know the problem is me - and so I move to something else in life for a bit until I can get my mind in the right place again.

                        Find one thing - commit to it - and WORK at it. Put in the time needed to get it right and to do it best. We know you can do this stuff - but you can't do it half-a@@ed or do it without being committed to putting out the best quality you are capable of.

                        There are marketers who can slap something up, grab the money and be fine with that. You can't do that. If you are not proud of what you produce you won't be happy with anything - it's how you are wired and there's nothing wrong with that.

                        Now - go do it right!:p
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      • Profile picture of the author lcombs
        Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

        No, I can't. Because the methods I used to generate traffic to my sites don't
        work anymore since Penguin and Panda. Long story that I just don't want to
        rehash. In short, I didn't adapt and my business died.

        Trust me, I'm not the only one this has happened to.
        I think Heysals' advice is a great place to start.
        Begin anew.
        Then, go back to what you were doing, only do it from a different perspective.
        I achieved expert author on EZA. And, trust me, I'm not half the writer you are.
        I got some traffic from my articles but my purpose was backlinks.
        I got very good at SEO.
        Every site I built achieved top 5 ranking.
        Like you, however, Penguin and Panda knocked me off the map.
        I was in a position to just say "screw Google" and pack it in.
        So, here I am in Panama City Beach, Fl. about a mile from the beach
        drinking daiquiris in the sun.

        My point is, you are much more talented and skilled than I.

        As a writer and composer you have so many avenues to pursue.

        I read somewhere on the 'net about 2 years ago that one of the best selling authors in the U.S. has never been on any best sellers list.
        She was making 100s of 1,000s of dollars writing books for Kindle.

        You can write both books and music. And, you know how to market.

        Take Heysals' advice and recharge your batteries and clear your mind.
        Then come back and do what you know.

        Your personal story about your experiences on in IM would, be an excellent book for Kindle or even in print.

        Scroll through the Internet Marketing Forum and I'll bet you'll find
        many IMers who want to know what you know and could really use your help.

        But, never forget, you have friends here.
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  • Profile picture of the author SandraLarkin
    Banned
    People still need copywriting. You could very easily go into the Warriors for hire section and advertise your copywriting skills. You have MASSIVE clout around here so that would be I would start if I were you, copywriting for warriors.

    You could also write a copywriting WSO to get you back into the game, do some JVs with other warriors, and you would very easily be back in the game. From there, you can figure out where to go.
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  • Profile picture of the author David Maschke
    You underestimate what you've done, or how many people you've reached.

    Your crap advertising book was really good, and your idea of selling traffic info to the TE crowd was brilliant. I've tried it and it worked.

    I think all you have to do is write something like that again, but put an invitation to your list within it. Hardly anyone does that.

    I remember once Allen Says writing he was going to get out of the master resale rights market because too many people were practically giving his ebooks away.

    I thought to myself I'd like to have the same problem, and he didn't say he recommended everyone else get out of the master resale rights market, it was just time for him to move beyond that market.

    Not many people harness the viral marketing power of PLR and MRR. I've seen your crap advertising ebook in many membership sites.
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  • Profile picture of the author Dan Riffle
    Wags, from reading this entire thread, I think what you need most is an attitude adjustment. You tend to go through phases of harsh personal criticism.

    Reread your posts in this thread and ask yourself if it's really you talking. Having read most of your books, I don't think it is.

    You got knocked clean off the horse. Fine. Dust off and leather up. Career adversity brought you to IM in the first place. You did well then and you'll do well again -- but your mind has to be right.
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Originally Posted by Dan Riffle View Post

      Wags, from reading this entire thread, I think what you need most is an attitude adjustment. You tend to go through phases of harsh personal criticism.

      Reread your posts in this thread and ask yourself if it's really you talking. Having read most of your books, I don't think it is.

      You got knocked clean off the horse. Fine. Dust off and leather up. Career adversity brought you to IM in the first place. You did well then and you'll do well again -- but your mind has to be right.
      I understand mindset has a lot to do with it, but my bigger problem is I just
      don't know what to do. In theory, yes.

      1. Take a niche with huge demand with hungry buyers.

      2. Create or find a product to sell to them.

      3. Build an authority site that will rank in spite of all the Google crap because
      it's simply kick ass.

      4. Sit back and watch the money come in.

      It's textbook, cookie cutter.

      # 3 is the stumbling block. My web design and programming skills are limited.
      No site I create is going to rank. So I will need to hire an expert. I don't have
      that kind of money, period.

      So I'm searching for alternatives to this classic model. Problem is, I can't
      think of any that aren't long shots at best. I don't have the energy to dump
      months into a project only to find out it isn't viable. I've done that before but
      I can't anymore. I need a guarantee income right now. And the only way to
      get that is through freelancing.

      Problem is, I don't know how to go about it other than through sites like
      Elance and they pay pennies.

      I have skills. I have tons of things that I'd enjoy doing in the writing field
      alone such as music, novels, copywriting, etc.

      But copywriting? I get somebody email me for a quote. I give them a quote
      and I never hear back from them again. They simply don't want to pay what
      my copywriting skills are worth and I won't work for peanuts.

      So we're back to square one again.

      I've tried getting an apprenticeship with a top copywriter. No luck. I guess
      they either don't hire anymore or have all the staff they need.

      I don't know what else to do. Yes, as Sal said, I need to clear my head. But
      I can't just run away from home for 3 days. I have other responsibilities that
      I can't run away from. In short, I need to be here.

      I'm not giving up. I just applied to Elance to write a short novel. I've submitted
      my Wizard Wars novel as my portfolio. But I doubt I'll get the job because
      somebody will do it for $6.
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      • Profile picture of the author Jason Kanigan
        Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

        I understand mindset has a lot to do with it, but my bigger problem is I just
        don't know what to do. In theory, yes.

        1. Take a niche with huge demand with hungry buyers.

        2. Create or find a product to sell to them.

        3. Build an authority site that will rank in spite of all the Google crap because
        it's simply kick ass.

        4. Sit back and watch the money come in.

        It's textbook, cookie cutter.

        # 3 is the stumbling block. My web design and programming skills are limited.
        No site I create is going to rank. So I will need to hire an expert. I don't have
        that kind of money, period.

        So I'm searching for alternatives to this classic model. Problem is, I can't
        think of any that aren't long shots at best. I don't have the energy to dump
        months into a project only to find out it isn't viable. I've done that before but
        I can't anymore. I need a guarantee income right now. And the only way to
        get that is through freelancing.

        Problem is, I don't know how to go about it other than through sites like
        Elance and they pay pennies.

        I have skills. I have tons of things that I'd enjoy doing in the writing field
        alone such as music, novels, copywriting, etc.

        But copywriting? I get somebody email me for a quote. I give them a quote
        and I never hear back from them again. They simply don't want to pay what
        my copywriting skills are worth and I won't work for peanuts.

        So we're back to square one again.

        I've tried getting an apprenticeship with a top copywriter. No luck. I guess
        they either don't hire anymore or have all the staff they need.

        I don't know what else to do. Yes, as Sal said, I need to clear my head. But
        I can't just run away from home for 3 days. I have other responsibilities that
        I can't run away from. In short, I need to be here.

        I'm not giving up. I just applied to Elance to write a short novel. I've submitted
        my Wizard Wars novel as my portfolio. But I doubt I'll get the job because
        somebody will do it for $6.
        Not everyone wants the $6 solution, Steven. I don't. A cheap solution means a low-quality and easily broken solution, to me. Would you rather have a car worth $1,000 or $60,000? Which do you think is going to break down faster?

        I want a contractor who is easy to communicate with, who understands what I want the first time. If I have to go back two weeks later and start from scratch, I'm going to be upset.

        There are many graphic designers on fiverr and I use some of them for site banners, ebook covers etc. But they aren't that good. None of them. I could do a better job myself, except that it takes too much time. Now that I've found someone who is much better at design, better than I am hands-down, I'm happy to send all my business to him. And he's at least quadruple the fiverr gig. The proportional increase is what I'd like you to see. Yes, I could pay 4 fiverr people and see if one of their results hits the spot (I've done this, btw, and not one was any good compared to what my chosen designer did).

        It's not always about price--and for the right kind of client, it never is.

        I got out of elance quickly because in general it's the wrong kind of client there.
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      • Profile picture of the author lcombs
        Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

        I understand mindset has a lot to do with it, but my bigger problem is I just
        don't know what to do. In theory, yes.

        1. Take a niche with huge demand with hungry buyers.

        2. Create or find a product to sell to them.

        3. Build an authority site that will rank in spite of all the Google crap because
        it's simply kick ass.

        4. Sit back and watch the money come in.

        It's textbook, cookie cutter.

        # 3 is the stumbling block. My web design and programming skills are limited.
        No site I create is going to rank. So I will need to hire an expert. I don't have
        that kind of money, period.

        So I'm searching for alternatives to this classic model. Problem is, I can't
        think of any that aren't long shots at best. I don't have the energy to dump
        months into a project only to find out it isn't viable. I've done that before but
        I can't anymore. I need a guarantee income right now. And the only way to
        get that is through freelancing.

        Problem is, I don't know how to go about it other than through sites like
        Elance and they pay pennies.

        I have skills. I have tons of things that I'd enjoy doing in the writing field
        alone such as music, novels, copywriting, etc.

        But copywriting? I get somebody email me for a quote. I give them a quote
        and I never hear back from them again. They simply don't want to pay what
        my copywriting skills are worth and I won't work for peanuts.

        So we're back to square one again.

        I've tried getting an apprenticeship with a top copywriter. No luck. I guess
        they either don't hire anymore or have all the staff they need.

        I don't know what else to do. Yes, as Sal said, I need to clear my head. But
        I can't just run away from home for 3 days. I have other responsibilities that
        I can't run away from. In short, I need to be here.

        I'm not giving up. I just applied to Elance to write a short novel. I've submitted
        my Wizard Wars novel as my portfolio. But I doubt I'll get the job because
        somebody will do it for $6.
        Steven,

        You don't need to build a site that ranks.
        You build a simple a simple Wordpress site and
        THEN build its' rank through back links.

        I mentioned before that SEO was my thing and all of my sites got into the 10 or higher.
        Panda knocked them off the map so I sold them and retired.
        But, here's the thing.
        I can't recall who wrote it, (maybe Brad Fallon, but don't quote me on that).
        But it's a new SEO course that teaches the exact same methods that I used.
        I would be more than happy to help you with building a site and getting ranked. It's more time consuming than anything.
        And articles are still the main ingredient. Which just happens to be your strong suit.
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        • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
          Originally Posted by lcombs View Post

          Steven,

          You don't need to build a site that ranks.
          You build a simple a simple Wordpress site and
          THEN build its' rank through back links.

          I mentioned before that SEO was my thing and all of my sites got into the 10 or higher.
          Panda knocked them off the map so I sold them and retired.
          But, here's the thing.
          I can't recall who wrote it, (maybe Brad Fallon, but don't quote me on that).
          But it's a new SEO course that teaches the exact same methods that I used.
          I would be more than happy to help you with building a site and getting ranked. It's more time consuming than anything.
          And articles are still the main ingredient. Which just happens to be your strong suit.
          Larry, I already have a WordPress blog. It has over 2,000 IM related articles
          on it with author bio links to tons of products.

          Can you give me instructions on how to get this blog to rank. It's quite old so
          it shouldn't be that hard.
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          • Profile picture of the author lcombs
            Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

            Larry, I already have a WordPress blog. It has over 2,000 IM related articles
            on it with author bio links to tons of products.

            Can you give me instructions on how to get this blog to rank. It's quite old so
            it shouldn't be that hard.
            I can do that Steven.

            It's all about Keyword density and back links.

            PM me and we'll get the ball rolling.
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            • Profile picture of the author yukon
              Originally Posted by lcombs View Post

              I can do that Steven.

              It's all about Keyword density and back links.

              PM me and we'll get the ball rolling.
              Sorry, keyword density isn't SEO, it's keyword stuffing & Google figured it out years ago.
              Signature
              Hi
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              • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
                Originally Posted by yukon View Post

                Sorry, keyword density isn't SEO, it's keyword stuffing & Google figured it out years ago.
                I have to agree with this. Besides, what do I do, rewrite 2,000 articles? They
                were written for people, not for search engines.

                There has to be a better way because that's not going to work.
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                • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
                  Banned
                  I have at least two suggestions. I don't know whether and/or to what extent they might be appropriate, but I tentatively offer them anyway ... (and all of them with great affection and respect for you, Steve: you know this).

                  I think you need to start by totally abandoning what seems to be your assumption that "making a living from a website" has to have something to do with "ranking the website". It just doesn't. Google traffic is crap traffic. You need and deserve better and can do better by totally ignoring Google. Some of the Warriors here are people whose incomes would be almost entirely unaffected if Google de-indexed all their sites tomorrow (it wouldn't even make much difference to me). My two suggestions ...

                  (i) Don't be so quick to abandon the copywriting idea. You mention above something you'd be willing to do for $1,200-ish per month if you can't find anything better - don't stoop so low as this. You could get yourself started in "copywriting services" with something like a $397 WSO for copywriting, explaining your circumstances openly in the sales post, and offering people the chance to take advantage of your circumstances for their business and put in an order for what would otherwise be more like a $2,000 copywriting job, but for only $397 (or whatever). Ok, it's not pay that's commensurate with your skills and experience, but it picks you up and gets you (re)started?

                  (ii) You could go back into affiliate marketing for yourself (I think it's a much better shot than being a vendor/merchant, for all these reasons among others), using article marketing to build up your business. Large and increasing numbers of Warriors are successfully building up full-time livings with article marketing, and you already have the writing skills (which puts the odds in your favor, but it's only one part of achieving anything with article marketing, and you would have a whole new skill-set to learn, and quite some learning-curve, because article directory marketing of the kind you've done in the past is - as you well recognize - stone dead now, and article marketing has absolutely nothing to do with Google/SEO/rankings, and nothing to do with trying to attract traffic from article directories, either). Still, I'd put money on you to be able to do this far more successfully than many people who take it up. One thing's for certain: people who switch from article directory marketing to article syndication are not switching back!
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                  • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
                    Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

                    I have at least two suggestions. I don't know whether and/or to what extent they might be appropriate, but I tentatively offer them anyway ... (and all of them with great affection and respect for you, Steve: you know this).

                    I think you need to start by totally abandoning what seems to be your assumption that "making a living from a website" has to have something to do with "ranking the website". It just doesn't. Google traffic is crap traffic. You need and deserve better and can do better by totally ignoring Google. Some of the Warriors here are people whose incomes would be almost entirely unaffected if Google de-indexed all their sites tomorrow (it wouldn't even make much difference to me). My two suggestions ...

                    (i) Don't be so quick to abandon the copywriting idea. You mention above something you'd be willing to do for $1,200-ish per month if you can't find anything better - don't stoop so low as this. You could get yourself started in "copywriting services" with something like a $397 WSO for copywriting, explaining your circumstances openly in the sales post, and offering people the chance to take advantage of your circumstances for their business and put in an order for what would otherwise be more like a $2,000 copywriting job, but for only $397 (or whatever). Ok, it's not pay that's commensurate with your skills and experience, but it picks you up and gets you (re)started?

                    (ii) You could go back into affiliate marketing for yourself (I think it's a much better shot than being a vendor/merchant, for all these reasons among others), using article marketing to build up your business. Large and increasing numbers of Warriors are successfully building up full-time livings with article marketing, and you already have the writing skills (which puts the odds in your favor, but it's only one part of achieving anything with article marketing, and you would have a whole new skill-set to learn, and quite some learning-curve, because article directory marketing of the kind you've done in the past is - as you well recognize - stone dead now, and article marketing has absolutely nothing to do with Google/SEO/rankings, and nothing to do with trying to attract traffic from article directories, either). Still, I'd put money on you to be able to do this far more successfully than many people who take it up. One thing's for certain: people who switch from article directory marketing to article syndication are not switching back!
                    Alexa, you know how much I love yuh. I'm all for going into affiliate marketing
                    but I simply don't know how. I have no idea where to start since article
                    directory marketing is dead. I would need a complete step by step process
                    to follow that I would follow to the letter as long as I knew that it was one
                    that wasn't at the mercy of Google and its stupid rules.

                    So I'm back to square one. I'm not asking you to give me a blueprint. In fact,
                    I'm not asking for anybody to give me a blueprint. But without one, I'd just
                    be groping in the dark right now. I'm just being honest.

                    As for writing a sales letter for $397, I'll have to think about that. Writing
                    sales letters is a ton of work. I should know. I've written hundreds for
                    myself. Plus, I'd have the added job of having to fully research the niche if
                    it was one I wasn't familiar with in order to know what hot buttons to push.
                    That step alone can sometimes take weeks. So a sales letter, to do properly,
                    could take me a whole month. A whole month for $397? I don't know about
                    that. Again, I'd have to think about it.

                    Anyway, thanks for your suggestions. You're the absolute best. Hope your
                    health is well these days. At least I have that much and I wouldn't trade it
                    for all the money in the world.

                    I learned that the hard way.
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                    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
                      So I'm back to square one.
                      You've never left square one since you started this thread. Every suggestion - and there have been some good ones - have been dismissed as "wont' work".

                      You don't need 3 days in the woods - but you do need a few hours of insight into your own thought patterns. Did you start this thread to get helpful advice - or to throw a pity party? There's a lot of empathy in this thread - but empathy doesn't pay well.

                      You started a thread long ago about having taken weeks and thoroughly mastered Wordpress - but your sites are outdated in design and need new, fresh themes. You posted stats from a site where the 40 download links lead to an error page with newsletter signup and a "gone to Mars" message. The sales pages for your products promise to teach what you now say you can't do and are old style in design.

                      A good copywriter or a paid article writer needs to be able to produce the work, take the critiques in stride and be easy to work with. You positioned yourself here as a good copywriter - now say it's too much work and takes a month to a write a $400 piece of copy?

                      One thing that caught my eye in this thread is something I wish you would think about. You've posted - and written EZA articles - on the game Magic the Gathering. Look at what you said about the game in this thread. You didn't talk about your enjoyment of or interest in the game - but of how others saw you and your value to the group. It's a theme that runs through your music and your work as well - the need for approval and recognition.

                      You aren't the only IMer who has had success and then had to start over and I know it's stressful. I've been there. But you aren't a newbie and you know the basics. You have to get over the "I'm too good for this" and the "my time is too valuable to do that" - and focus on what you have to offer others.

                      Think small - work on one site and upgrade/improve it. Refocus your efforts on a narrow goal and then widen your goals as you move forward. The only person who can move you off square one...is you.

                      I know you won't like this advice - but I think you need it. You can do this - you just have to make the choice to do it.

                      kay
                      Signature

                      Saving one dog may not change the world - but forever changes the world of one dog.

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                      • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
                        Steve, you know I love ya to bits, but what I think you need is an attitude adjustment. In all of your posts, your attitude towards every suggestion is a poor one and since attitude determines altitude, you need to change your mindset.

                        Mindsets are built up in our minds through experiences we've encountered making things appear to be truths even though they aren't the truth. Every thing afterwards is filtered through that mindset.

                        You want to know the truth? The truth is that you are a highly talented and creative person that absolutely can create success with determination and innovation. You've done it before and can do it again if you truly want to. The real question is, do you really want to?

                        If you do, then start and if you have to keep chanting, I think I can, I think I can just like the little engine that could, then do it. It worked for him.

                        Terra
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                        • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
                          Okay, I hear what everybody is saying. Yes, I need an attitude adjustment.

                          But I also need something just as important if not more so...direction.

                          I know how to do one thing...write articles. And the only thing I've ever known
                          what to do with those articles is submit them to article directories and put them
                          on my blog. Those two things used to work like gangbusters. They now don't
                          work at all.

                          I love Alexa's suggestion to get back into affiliate marketing. I'd love to. I don't
                          know how.

                          So what exactly am I supposed to do, reach into a barrel, pick out some tactic
                          and hope it works? If that's essentially what I'm supposed to do now, test a
                          whole bunch of tactics until I find something that works, no thank you, I'd
                          rather just go and find a job. I've been through the marketing crap. It took
                          me 3 years (I started in 2003) to figure out that article marketing even
                          existed, let alone work. I'm not going to spend the next 3 years hunting and
                          pecking in the hope that MAYBE I'll find something else that works. I don't
                          have that kind of time to waste. I need an income now.

                          Now if that's an unreasonable expectation, fine, tell me it's an unreasonable
                          expectation and we'll be done with this. I can't go back to the days of "Let's
                          see if this works." I won't do it.

                          In the meantime, I've contacted a music site and we might have a possible
                          JV when he returns to the studio on the 15th. He creates royalty free music.
                          Even if he just pays me for each composition I create, that's at least an
                          income for the work I do. That's all I'm looking for now.

                          Thank you again for all your suggestions but without knowing what the hell
                          I'm doing in the marketing world anymore (which I freely admit) none of these
                          suggestions are going to help me because I don't know what to do with them.

                          I hope you can all understand that.
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                          • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
                            Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

                            As for writing a sales letter for $397, I'll have to think about that. Writing sales letters is a ton of work.
                            It's not something you'd keep doing at that price. If it interests you, consider the first few a "loss leader" to gain a footing in that industry, and then raise your rates.


                            Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

                            I know how to do one thing...write articles. And the only thing I've ever known what to do with those articles is submit them to article directories and put them on my blog. Those two things used to work like gangbusters. They now don't work at all.
                            And I gave you a suggestion earlier that is right up that alley. Bundle your articles into themed sets and sell them as PLR.

                            Michael Mayo has some software for searching the WSO forum. According to it, PLR is the most search for term. Several PLR producers keep posting new PLR threads so they must be making money at it.

                            Don't want to use your old articles for this? Write some new ones on a hot evergreen topic.

                            For example, say you write 15 articles and sell them for $7. Don't think of it as selling them for just over $2 each. If you sell 50 bundles that's $350. So you wrote 15 articles for $350, not $2 each.

                            You could do that in your sleep. You'd build a new list of buyers at the same time.

                            Or create a PLR ebook on an evergreen topic and charge $17. Or bundle an ebook and a the articles together.

                            You keep saying what you were doing isn't working anymore, so use that experience and go off in a different direction. It's starting over without starting from scratch. Reinventing your craft, so to speak.

                            Stop lamenting and start doing. There are no guarantees. You'll find out what works faster by doing something than by analyzing everything to death looking for a sure thing. That's the classic newbie mistake.

                            You can't go from where you are to where you want to be without crossing over those learning bridges, so get moving, Mister! It doesn't have to be what I suggested, but something. Anything.

                            You can view the obstacles in your path as stumbling blocks or stepping stones. You can bemoan your fate, or create your future. You can find fault with every suggestion in the thread, or you can pick yourself up, dust yourself off, and say "Dammit Steven, let's make a great comeback!"

                            Your choice.
                            Signature

                            Just when you think you've got it all figured out, someone changes the rules.

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                            • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
                              Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post

                              It's not something you'd keep doing at that price. If it interests you, consider the first few a "loss leader" to gain a footing in that industry, and then raise your rates.




                              And I gave you a suggestion earlier that is right up that alley. Bundle your articles into themed sets and sell them as PLR.

                              Michael Mayo has some software for searching the WSO forum. According to it, PLR is the most search for term. Several PLR producers keep posting new PLR threads so they must be making money at it.

                              Don't want to use your old articles for this? Write some new ones on a hot evergreen topic.

                              For example, say you write 15 articles and sell them for $7. Don't think of it as selling them for just over $2 each. If you sell 50 bundles that's $350. So you wrote 15 articles for $350, not $2 each.

                              You could do that in your sleep. You'd build a new list of buyers at the same time.

                              Or create a PLR ebook on an evergreen topic and charge $17. Or bundle an ebook and a the articles together.

                              You keep saying what you were doing isn't working anymore, so use that experience and go off in a different direction. It's starting over without starting from scratch. Reinventing your craft, so to speak.

                              Stop lamenting and start doing. There are no guarantees. You'll find out what works faster by doing something than by analyzing everything to death looking for a sure thing. That's the classic newbie mistake.

                              You can't go from where you are to where you want to be without crossing over those learning bridges, so get moving, Mister! It doesn't have to be what I suggested, but something. Anything.

                              You can view the obstacles in your path as stumbling blocks or stepping stones. You can bemoan your fate, or create your future. You can find fault with every suggestion in the thread, or you can pick yourself up, dust yourself off, and say "Dammit Steven, let's make a great comeback!"

                              Your choice.
                              So PLR is actually selling here? Who'd a thunk it. I thought PLR was essentially
                              dead in the water.

                              In that case, that certainly is an option. I could make packages by the boat
                              load just out of articles I've written.

                              Okay, I'll give it a test run and see how it goes.
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                              • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
                                Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

                                So PLR is actually selling here? Who'd a thunk it. I thought PLR was essentially
                                dead in the water.

                                In that case, that certainly is an option. I could make packages by the boat
                                load just out of articles I've written.

                                Okay, I'll give it a test run and see how it goes.
                                Okay, I just can't stop myself...Atta Boy Steve!

                                Terra
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                                • Profile picture of the author Chuck Avants
                                  First think what you used to say to people who made comments like this.
                                  You basically said pull your head outta your --- and get busy.

                                  You have lots of connections--people who would be willing to help you
                                  start over..

                                  Seek out one of them and get some coaching.

                                  I'm sure you can sell--go get some local clients and outsource websites, SEO,
                                  or whatever. Someone here can help you figure out how to get started.

                                  Sandra Larkin who contributed to this thread might be able to help. She has a small charge but you should make it back quickly.
                                  Signature
                                  Do the right thing---
                                  Because it is the right thing to do
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                              • Profile picture of the author SandraLarkin
                                Banned
                                Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

                                So PLR is actually selling here? Who'd a thunk it. I thought PLR was essentially
                                dead in the water.

                                In that case, that certainly is an option. I could make packages by the boat
                                load just out of articles I've written.

                                Okay, I'll give it a test run and see how it goes.
                                You are a master copywriter -


                                You can also form a WSO on how to write copy that converts. You have to have a list as well correct?
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              • Profile picture of the author lcombs
                Originally Posted by yukon View Post

                Sorry, keyword density isn't SEO, it's keyword stuffing & Google figured it out years ago.
                100% wrong!

                Ask yourself this: If you don't link KWs back to your site,
                how do get ranked for that KW.

                Linking keywords in articles to your site is by definition a backlink!
                That's how you get ranked for a specific KW.

                Keyword stuffing is linking too many keywords in a single article.

                Way back when, the standard was 2 - 3% KW density.
                Now, I believe it's about 1, maybe 2%.
                That also holds true for the content on the pages of your web site.

                The same holds true for press releases, bookmarking, and every other avenue of SEO.

                This is a simple example of linking structure.
                I'm aware that many of the sites listed may no longer be viable, but, they have been replaced by new ones.

                But the strategy remains the same.



                Of course this is a small sampling of what it takes to 'Super Size' your site.
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              • Profile picture of the author lcombs
                [DELETED]
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                • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
                  Originally Posted by lcombs View Post

                  Absolutely, 100% WRONG!

                  Keyword stuffing is linking too many KWs to your site in 1 article.

                  KWs linking back to your site in articles are, by definition,
                  backlinks.
                  How else do you believe a site gets ranked for a specific KW?

                  When I got started in SEO the recommended KW density rate was 2 - 3%.

                  Now, I believe it's 1 maybe 2%.

                  Here's how it works.



                  Many of the sites have lost their link power, but others have taken there place.

                  Then there are videos, bookmarks, and any number of ways to get a high ranking and, they also generate traffic themselves.


                  And, no, Steven, there is no reason to rewrite 2,000 articles.
                  However, you may want to go back insert KW links in the articles from page to page.
                  Time consuming? Yes. But, creating the links over a period of time appears more natural to Googles spiders.
                  You mean link from one article to another article that is related to it on my
                  blog?
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                  • Profile picture of the author lcombs
                    Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

                    You mean link from one article to another article that is related to it on my
                    blog?
                    Yes Steven.
                    Web pages get ranked. Not web sites.
                    Actually, you can and should link all your pages to your landing page.
                    This is easily done by placing the KWs linking back to your landing page by placing it outside the article at the bottom of the page.
                    I'm sure you've seen it. It's SOP.
                    You can also place a link in the body of the article pointing to another page.

                    Maybe I should just put it all down in book form or video.

                    Imagine, in the link map I post earlier, repeating that for each of the original sites.
                    And doing that over and over for different KWs.

                    I outsourced using each article, with photos, to make videos and submit them, with backlinks to my site, to multiple video directories.
                    And, I used an automated system to bookmark each and every page.
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                    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
                      Okay, let's begin.

                      I never jump into anything without doing proper research first. That's one of
                      the traits of a successful marketer, research.

                      I went to the WSO forum and did a search on anything PLR related to see what
                      was selling. That's a basic marketing principle. See what's selling and create
                      something similar and better if possible. You can even sell it for more money if
                      it's vastly superior.

                      Anyway, this is what I discovered in going through close to 40 pages of WSOs
                      going all the way back to December of last year.

                      1. Most of the WSOs that appear to be selling (I can only go by views and
                      responses) are more than just articles. Most of the top WSOs are selling
                      software, ebooks, graphics, affiliate packages (squeeze pages, reports, etc.)
                      and even membership sites.

                      2. Most of the PLR content is massive in nature. There no 15 articles for $7
                      WSOs that are showing any signs of selling. Some WSOs with significant
                      numbers of articles aren't selling. For example. One WSO selling 36 articles
                      for just $7 has almost no traffic at all. And this was for a member who has
                      been a member here since 2007. So certainly he has some credibility.

                      3. The prices of these WSOs are almost give away. There was only a couple
                      that I saw beyond the $10 mark and they were selling literally hundreds of
                      articles, ebooks, squeeze pages and other items. The one WSO sold 29
                      different mega packs for $129. I don't know how many of those packs sold
                      as there were cheaper options as well, one being 1 pack for $7. But that
                      WSO did have thousands of views.

                      One WSO selling 30 packs at $7 only made 8 sales. I know this because they
                      were using WSO Pro. So they made $56 and spent $40 on the WSO, which
                      is a profit of $16. These packs had way more than the 15 articles I was
                      suggested to package in this thread.

                      This is a red flag to me. I don't see putting together a 15 article $7 WSO as
                      making me any money.

                      So, if I'm going to do this properly (because there is no question there is a
                      market for PLR material as evidenced by the number of selling PLR offers out
                      there) I am going to have to put together a mega pack, maybe make 50
                      packs available and sell it for $10. That'll probably sell out and make me $500
                      minus the $40 WSO fee for a profit of $460. It isn't a fortune but I'll take it
                      for now.

                      However, I'm going to have to put in a lot of work for that $460. Past history
                      in the WSO forum shows beyond much doubt that 15 articles for $7 won't
                      cut it.

                      I think the 50 article pack for $10 might do it. I'm not sure. But I'm going to
                      test it out. If I don't at least get my $40 WSO fee back then at least I'll
                      know that if I'm going to go the PLR route, I'm going to have to look at the
                      top sellers and come up with a similar offer. The problem there is a lot of
                      these involve creating things that I'm not that good at creating, such as
                      software, web sites, graphics, videos and audios. That's where the real
                      money is. The evidence is all over the WSO forum. And creating whole ebooks
                      and sales pages is a lot of work for very little return.

                      I'm going to go into this with an open mind. $40 isn't the end of the world
                      though right now it's a lot of money for me. But if I don't at least give it one
                      shot, I'll never know.

                      I'll report back here after I've put it together and sold it to let you know how
                      well it did. If it was profitable, I'll do another. If not, I'll move on to something
                      else. I can't afford to keep throwing $40 WSO fees into something that has
                      no demand.
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                      • Profile picture of the author Kay King
                        Past history in the WSO forum shows beyond much doubt that 15 articles for $7 won't cut it.
                        Up until late 2012 YOU ran two dozen WSO's a year. Most were PLR so you should have some insight on what sells...and what doesn't. Your price was often 37 bucks and it takes a lot of content to sell PLR at that price.

                        I don't think you can sell PLR without revealing the niche...which is what you tried in the past.
                        Signature

                        Saving one dog may not change the world - but forever changes the world of one dog.

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                        • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
                          Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                          Up until late 2012 YOU ran two dozen WSO's a year. Most were PLR so you should have some insight on what sells...and what doesn't. Your price was often 37 bucks and it takes a lot of content to sell PLR at that price.

                          I don't think you can sell PLR without revealing the niche...which is what you tried in the past.
                          Actually, those weren't PLR packs. They were for personal use only. The reason
                          I didn't reveal the niches were because they were niches I researched that were
                          brand new and I didn't want people to just see the niche and be able to go out
                          and start putting up sites for it, thus competing with those who bought the
                          packs on good faith, knowing they could get a complete refund if they didn't
                          like the niche.

                          And as long as my list was large and responsive, they sold well. But they never
                          really sold here at the forum. Maybe a few sales and that was it. That's why
                          I never really depended on the forum. I had a responsive list. Now I don't.

                          This is another reason I'm slightly wary of selling PLR packs here regardless of
                          how good they are. How many of these great offers sell because these
                          marketers simply have big lists? I mean do you really think that just the casual
                          browsers through the WSO forum are enough to give these vendors 100,000
                          views? Somehow I doubt that.

                          So I'm starting over from scratch. I'm selling a few packs and starting to build
                          a list again. Maybe in 3 years I'll have a big list again. It isn't going to happen
                          over night, which is why I can't rely on this to be my only source of income.
                          I've learned enough in 10 years to know that it's not going to happen.
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                  • Profile picture of the author lcombs
                    Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

                    You mean link from one article to another article that is related to it on my
                    blog?
                    And, there's also the ever-present table of contents.
                    And, WP has several good SEO plug-ins.
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            • Profile picture of the author mrkitty
              Originally Posted by lcombs View Post

              I can do that Steven.

              It's all about Keyword density and back links.

              PM me and we'll get the ball rolling.
              His site is getting 8,000 visits a month. Seo ain't his problem, it's an excuse....one of many he's posted in this thread. If only he could find a way to monetize excuse-making, he'd be set.
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              • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
                Originally Posted by mrkitty View Post

                His site is getting 8,000 visits a month. Seo ain't his problem, it's an excuse....one of many he's posted in this thread. If only he could find a way to monetize excuse-making, he'd be set.

                Originally Posted by mrkitty View Post

                So you're going to try to write and sell articles on a subject you've already admitted to who knows how many people here that you're clueless about, lol?

                :confused:
                Mr Kitty,

                Let me make a friendly suggestion to you. Perhaps you should go back to your kitty litter box and fiddle around in there since it holds the very thing you like to talk...crap!

                May I also suggest you pull back your kitty claws and leave our alley because there are a lot of Tom's around here and some female felines who can revert back to being feral when you attack one of ours. Go back to your scratching pad and claw at it instead.

                What are you waiting for? Get! Pfffft! Pffft! Low growl!

                Terra
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                • Profile picture of the author fin
                  Building an authority site just takes time, but it's certainly not rocket science.

                  Start with a few blog posts. Have an opt-in form, 2-3 emails per week, a sales page, and a product to sell.

                  Email other bloggers and offer than guest posts. Write one each day. If you target the right blogs you will get the same amount of people reading your articles and clicking through to your site.

                  You just need to put the articles on other sites instead of EZA.

                  I'll give you an example:

                  Hey John,

                  I really like your knitting blog. One of your last posts gave my great inspiration and I knitted a sweater for my dog. I wrote an article and I'd love if you could post it on your blog.

                  Hey Steve,

                  That sounds great. Stick a link in the bottom and hundreds of my readers will click through to your site. They will enter your sales funnel and eventually buy your product.

                  Hey John,

                  Super duper.

                  -----------------

                  Rinse and repeat.

                  You could also do the same ninja tricks Alexa write about and use an article for multiple sites.

                  Get on it...
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  • Profile picture of the author Dan Riffle
    Steve, I'm not saying you need to strip naked and run through fields o' plenty. There's no need to join a drum circle and smoke peyote to find yourself. I'm sure you have some projects around the house that need finished. Paint a room. Fix a broken door. Sand the deck. Connect yourself to the work at hand and forget about this crap for a while.

    When you come back, make it a priority to figure out why you can't rank a site to save your life. Other people are doing it. This is certifiable proof that you can, too. You're no dummy. You'll figure it out.
    Signature

    "Arguing with...strangers on the Internet is a sucker's game because they almost always turn out to be, or to be indistinguishable from, self-righteous 16-year-olds possessing infinite amounts of free time."

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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Originally Posted by Dan Riffle View Post

      Steve, I'm not saying you need to strip naked and run through fields o' plenty. There's no need to join a drum circle and smoke peyote to find yourself. I'm sure you have some projects around that house that need finished. Paint a room. Fix a broken door. Sand the deck. Connect yourself to the work at hand and forget about this crap for a while.

      When you come back, make it a priority to figure out why you can't rank a site to save your life. Other people are doing it. This is certifiable proof that you can, too. You're no dummy. You'll figure it out.
      In theory, I know what needs to be done to rank a site. But I have a blog in
      the IM niche that's quite old right now with thousands of articles on marketing.

      You couldn't find it if you searched Google for 200 pages. And we're talking
      about WordPress so it's not like the blog looks like crap or has any issues
      with layout.

      My monthly traffic to this blog?

      Well, here's my total traffic for the whole domain.



      I used to get between 15 and 20,000 visits per month.

      And none of my visits are translating to sales anymore. All readers simply
      read and move on. I'm lucky if I get 1 opt in a day.

      That's my reality right now. I don't get it, but that's what it is.
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  • Profile picture of the author historial0racle
    It is such a good feeling when someone like Steven who has seen such successful days in IM has the humility to reach out to his fellow mates here. I am new here as I just joined but this is a good way to start. Hello everyone and thank you for the wonderful words of wisdom as it has helped me too.
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  • Profile picture of the author Don Schenk
    Three things come to mind.

    1. Years ago, when my father-in-law was on this planet, he retired. Within a short time he became depressed, because he no longer felt important. I have another relative who is going through the same situation.

    2. The fellow who had been my family physician (since about age 13 for me), retired at age 70, because his business partner wanted to retire. He soon developed sever depression, because he too no longer felt needed.

    I realize you have not "officially" retired, but it has to be the same sort of thing causing the feelings of being useless, and not knowing where to turn.

    3 I'm sending you a PM in a moment.

    :-Don
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  • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
    Steven,

    Since you are shooting down every suggestion, or making them seem more difficult to do than they really are, what do you want to do and what are you going to do about your situation?

    Dan
    Signature

    "If you think you're the smartest person in the room, then you're probably in the wrong room."

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  • Profile picture of the author Nate Simms
    Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

    So what exactly am I supposed to do, reach into a barrel, pick out some tactic and hope it works? If that's essentially what I'm supposed to do now, test a whole bunch of tactics until I find something that works, no thank you, I'd rather just go and find a job. I've been through the marketing crap. It took me 3 years (I started in 2003) to figure out that article marketing even existed, let alone work. I'm not going to spend the next 3 years hunting and pecking in the hope that MAYBE I'll find something else that works. I don't have that kind of time to waste. I need an income now.
    ... if you "need an income now," then you should probably leave this thread and go apply for a 9-5 job. Just sayin'.
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  • Profile picture of the author garyv
    Your post here... http://www.warriorforum.com/off-topi...ml#post8354042
    is a $9.95 WSO

    My DETAILED Report on the TOP Selling WSOs of 2013!
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  • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
    Steven,

    The 15 articles for $7 was just to have some numbers to work with. Knowing how you are, I figured you'd work out the best approach for yourself. That's why I closed my post the way I did.

    I almost added a comment in that post about making the offer better than everyone else's, but decided against it. I settled for suggesting the article pack/eBook bundle. I didn't want to insult you by telling you what you already know, just wanted to give you what I thought was a viable option for you . . . and a small kick in the pants.

    By the way, I've posted two WSOs in my life (not counting the upcoming one). The first one was a 22 page PLR eBook. I don't remember how many copies it sold exactly, but it sold for $17 and I made about $400 and bumped it once for another $200 or so. And that was when I was relatively new here, and being my first WSO I didn't really know what I was doing.
    Signature

    Just when you think you've got it all figured out, someone changes the rules.

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  • Profile picture of the author Gil Doer
    Steven,

    5 years ago I had good position of an offline company. I was the GM and I tripled the size of this franchise operation in less than two years with 6 figures cash flow. In the middle of this I started doing some affiliate marketing. Then my wife was diagnosed with Stage 4 lung/brain cancer (although she never smoked in her life.) in December 2009.

    Everything changed.

    We moved to San Diego to get her treatment although the doctors only gave her 6 months. She got better but wasn't out of the ballpark even though she wanted to move to our island. After a year of begging reluctantly (because of the lack of medical treatments on the island.) I agreed for us to move back. She was amazing. Full of life and spice more than anybody I knew. But Mia went to heaven in April. After 3 years she fought hard, suffered tremendously and she still won. (cancerfreemia.com)

    I've been working for my Mother-in-Law since we got back just over a year ago. I've helped her with her franchise operation and it's grown and has changed for the better but with that she's become threatened by me and has felt that somehow with my growing influence on the company I want to usurp her position although I've assured her that I only want to help her company grow... Long story short today she let her fear get the best of her... and released me from my position.

    I have to young boys to take care of and I don't know how I'm going to pay for next months bills BUT I am alive, I have my health, I have a sound mind (I AM still reeling from what my MILaw did though) , I have two fantastic boys, I have good friends, and I have God.

    Something good will happen.

    I know this isn't like Kay's direct, specific advice but my IM experience has had limited success. You've had great success. I have no doubt that you will be found or will find yourself... whichever verbal you prefer.

    Keep fighting... your still alive.

    Something good will happen.
    Signature

    Gil...

    Genius is ninety percent perspiration and ten percent inspiration.

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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Originally Posted by Gil Doer View Post

      Steven,

      5 years ago I had good position of an offline company. I was the GM and I tripled the size of this franchise operation in less than two years with 6 figures cash flow. In the middle of this I started doing some affiliate marketing. Then my wife was diagnosed with Stage 4 lung/brain cancer (although she never smoked in her life.) in December 2009.

      Everything changed.

      We moved to San Diego to get her treatment although the doctors only gave her 6 months. She got better but wasn't out of the ballpark even though she wanted to move to our island. After a year of begging reluctantly (because of the lack of medical treatments on the island.) I agreed for us to move back. She was amazing. Full of life and spice more than anybody I knew. But Mia went to heaven in April. After 3 years she fought hard, suffered tremendously and she still won. (cancerfreemia.com)

      I've been working for my Mother-in-Law since we got back just over a year ago. I've helped her with her franchise operation and it's grown and has changed for the better but with that she's become threatened by me and has felt that somehow with my growing influence on the company I want to usurp her position although I've assured her that I only want to help her company grow... Long story short today she let her fear get the best of her... and released me from my position.

      I have to young boys to take care of and I don't know how I'm going to pay for next months bills BUT I am alive, I have my health, I have a sound mind (I AM still reeling from what my MILaw did though) , I have two fantastic boys, I have good friends, and I have God.

      Something good will happen.

      I know this isn't like Kay's direct, specific advice but my IM experience has had limited success. You've had great success. I have no doubt that you will be found or will find yourself... whichever verbal you prefer.

      Keep fighting... your still alive.

      Something good will happen.
      There is no way I could not respond to this. Forgetting about myself, I can't
      for the life of me understand how your children's grandmother could do this
      to her own grandchildren. I'm speechless.

      Aside from that, that's quite a story. I'm sorry about your wife. That is so sad. Your story just reaffirms how lucky I really am. My problems, in comparison,
      are insignificant.

      I wish you only the very best and hope you pull yourself through this, what
      has to be a, very difficult time.

      Thanks for the words of encouragement.
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      • Profile picture of the author Kay King
        Something good will happen.
        ...and because that is what you expect, you will make something good happen for you and your boys.
        Signature

        Saving one dog may not change the world - but forever changes the world of one dog.

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        • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
          Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

          ...and because that is what you expect, you will make something good happen for you and your boys.
          Kay, I have just one article left to write and then I will have a pack of 50
          Internet marketing related articles to put up for sale next week. I'll add some
          extra goodies to it and it should do well. How well? I'll find out shortly.

          Thanks for the kick in the ass.
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          • Profile picture of the author Revolutionary
            I've lurked for a long time and felt compelled to create an account in order to respond to this thread.

            I too had a nice little business going in the good ol' EZA days. Writing has always come easily to me, and so article directory marketing was something I could do in my spare time.

            For a couple of years, my EZA-related earnings were enough to pay my monthly mortgage – not exactly small potatoes! So when Google clamped down, I definitely rued having put all my eggs in one basket.

            But over the last two years, I've managed to bounce back. Because the OP is a writer too, maybe this might be of some use.

            1. I wrote a Kindle series.
            I chose a fairly specialised niche in women's health, and wrote five books. Each book took me about a month to write, and I average 10 sales per day for each book. My sales figures continue to improve. I've marketed through my own blog as well as guest blogging and sending out free review copies to webmasters.

            2. I write web copy for local businesses.
            I connected with my local chambers of commerce and made more local connections on Twitter. I'll write anything from social media/daily tweets to blog posts, newsletters and web copy.

            3. My "Hire Me" tab on my blog.
            I work part-time as a school administrator, so can't dedicate myself to a full-time writing career. If I did, I'd have my own freelance writer website. But on my blog promoting my Kindle books, I have a "hire me" tab. The more I blog, the more queries/writing gigs I get.

            I've been down the Elance road and found it very demoralising. In my experience, it's been far more rewarding (psychologically and financially) to be the master of my own destiny. If I didn't love my job at the school so much, I honestly think I could make a full-time living with the above methods.

            Also, I've found that the more specialised one is, the easier it is.

            For instance, the OP mentions Magic the Gathering. That sounds to me like a perfect candidate for a Kindle series!

            Good luck!
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            • Profile picture of the author Dan Riffle
              Originally Posted by Revolutionary View Post

              A lot of good information
              I humbly request that you stop lurking and start participating. We can use more people like you around these parts.
              Signature

              "Arguing with...strangers on the Internet is a sucker's game because they almost always turn out to be, or to be indistinguishable from, self-righteous 16-year-olds possessing infinite amounts of free time."

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          • Profile picture of the author thunderbird
            Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

            Kay, I have just one article left to write and then I will have a pack of 50
            Internet marketing related articles to put up for sale next week. I'll add some
            extra goodies to it and it should do well. How well? I'll find out shortly.

            Thanks for the kick in the ass.
            I'll definitely buy it. Looking forward to it.
            Signature

            Project HERE.

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          • Profile picture of the author lcombs
            Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

            Kay, I have just one article left to write and then I will have a pack of 50
            Internet marketing related articles to put up for sale next week. I'll add some
            extra goodies to it and it should do well. How well? I'll find out shortly.

            Thanks for the kick in the ass.
            Consider this;

            MissTerraK does voice-overs.

            You could team with her and convert the articles into a CD course.
            Or, a membership site offering a new CD every week.
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            • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
              Originally Posted by lcombs View Post

              Consider this;

              MissTerraK does voice-overs.

              You could team with her and convert the articles into a CD course.
              Or, a membership site offering a new CD every week.
              Good thinking.

              Pushing that idea just a little further, call them Audio Articles and set up a low cost membership site where members get one Audio Article a week they can embed into their blogs or websites.

              Show folks how to do it and you might have a hit.

              Sheesh, maybe I should do that myself.
              Signature

              Just when you think you've got it all figured out, someone changes the rules.

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              • Profile picture of the author lcombs
                Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post

                Good thinking.

                Pushing that idea just a little further, call them Audio Articles and set up a low cost membership site where members get one Audio Article a week they can embed into their blogs or websites.

                Show folks how to do it and you might have a hit.

                Sheesh, maybe I should do that myself.
                Ain't difficult.
                I had a similar site at one time.
                Except, instead of articles I provided interviews with successful IMers.

                WP has a nice free membership plug-in.
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              • Profile picture of the author bwh1
                Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post

                membership site where members get one Audio Article a week they
                I would be interested into a monthly audio pack PLR in the IM niche with a good american voice.

                G.
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            • Profile picture of the author Kay King
              But over the last two years, I've managed to bounce back. Because the OP is a writer too, maybe this might be of some use.
              I've bounced back a couple times myself. Success is a MOVING target - You can celebrate every success - but rest on none of them.
              Signature

              Saving one dog may not change the world - but forever changes the world of one dog.

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          • Profile picture of the author mrkitty
            Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

            Kay, I have just one article left to write and then I will have a pack of 50
            Internet marketing related articles to put up for sale next week. I'll add some
            extra goodies to it and it should do well. How well? I'll find out shortly.

            Thanks for the kick in the ass.
            So you're going to try to write and sell articles on a subject you've already admitted to who knows how many people here that you're clueless about, lol?

            :confused:
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            • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
              Originally Posted by mrkitty View Post

              His site is getting 8,000 visits a month. Seo ain't his problem, it's an excuse....one of many he's posted in this thread. If only he could find a way to monetize excuse-making, he'd be set.
              Originally Posted by mrkitty View Post

              So you're going to try to write and sell articles on a subject you've already admitted to who knows how many people here that you're clueless about, lol?

              :confused:
              Are you done?
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            • Profile picture of the author garyv
              Originally Posted by mrkitty View Post

              So you're going to try to write and sell articles on a subject you've already admitted to who knows how many people here that you're clueless about, lol?

              :confused:
              He never said he didn't know anything about Internet Marketing. He said he's hit a rough spot because of a google slap. It happens to a lot of internet marketers. That has nothing to do with whether or not you know how to market on the internet. - If you'd bothered reading, you'd know that he's made a ton of money online, and that doesn't happen for someone that doesn't know IM. So give it a rest.
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              • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
                Originally Posted by garyv View Post

                He never said he didn't know anything about Internet Marketing. He said he's hit a rough spot because of a google slap. It happens to a lot of internet marketers. That has nothing to do with whether or not you know how to market on the internet. - If you'd bothered reading, you'd know that he's made a ton of money online, and that doesn't happen for someone that doesn't know IM. So give it a rest.
                Gary, he's not worth your time. Just ignore him. Thanks for having my back
                though.

                I need to start getting used to forum trolls because they're never going to go
                away.
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  • Profile picture of the author garyv
    Just a reminder Steven - Everything you were doing, you were doing right. Because you were making money. If you can recapture your formula - minus the google part, you'll be making money again. You just need to find a way to get your stuff in front of those same groups of people. - And part of your success was a continuous output. The grind keeps it going. You just need to recapture that excitement you once had.

    And if you haven't done it yet - I know many have suggested it - you should try some Amazon ebook writing. You must have been good at title writing to get your articles to rank in google and have people clicking them. It's the same in Amazon - the right title will make you money. And a few amazon sales will help you to recapture that excitement that keeps you going every day.

    You had one of the first posts I'd ever read in here, and your enthusiasm back then was an inspiration. Just get back to it. Keep trying different things until one of them works. You know that it can be done because you've done it.
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  • Profile picture of the author travlinguy
    Why compete in a crowed field when there's low hanging fruit all over the place?

    Every week there are dozens of threads started on how to select a niche. Check it out. They're everywhere. This place is loaded with newbies who don't have a clue. I'm not being critical just voicing an observation.

    I've participated in many of these threads. A couple of times I've half-playfully mentioned I might just create a comprehensive report on niche selection. Once Alexa responded to one of those comments and said she was also tempted to write one and then mentioned you, Steve, as you'd been in that arena in the past.

    Of course, a lot of your potential customers already have preconceived ideas of how the process goes. They usually want to find the most profitable "untapped" niche and then build a site/blog based on ranking certain keywords. That only works for a very small percentage of newbies. And that approach is putting the cart before the horse. Most newbs will soon tire of working a niche they have no connection to and then they're back at square one feeling like crap and complaining that nothing works, yadda yadda.

    I've always been an advocate of picking something you at least like and then filling in the blanks with the nuts and bolts basic Internet marketing stuff. And I'm not much of an fan of trying to build a business solely on SEO for traffic.

    But it doesn't matter what I think because the target audience expects certain things and they need to see those things in any guide on niche selection. I know how I'd do this if I were going to write a report on niche selection but I'm not going to.

    Bottom line here is there's a massive market for this and if it's done well it could be a huge seller. I'd write the thing based on my own experience blending in the stuff they're expecting while also reminding them the marketing landscape has changed and gently lead them in more productive directions that reflect those changes. Tell them the Google zoo critters have made certain changes critical. Then I'd offer up two or three case studies along with a huge laundry list of possible niches.

    I'm thinking this thing is around 15 to 20 thousand words. Maybe make part of it in a few video installments. I see it at 12 bucks with maybe an OTO where they get some email consulting from you for another 12 or 15 dollars.

    Then when you bring it out as a WSO you need to give them what they expect again. Plain text sales pitches are soooooo old school. Graphical presentations are very easy to put together and the WSO buying crowd loves them. If you don't want to do it you can get someone to do the graphic stuff for $10 to $15.

    Do a search for threads where people are asking how to choose a niche. There are a lot of them. Then do a search for products addressing this. There are very few and you should be able to beat the ones out there because you've got years of experience and are a prolific writer with a shitload of success behind you. So use it to your advantage already.

    Good luck.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jgannuny
    Hi Steven, I don't know you and you don't know me, also I can't even remember how I got here but I can feel your pain.
    I read every single thread here and some people have great ideas, also if I understood right it sounds like you're a good writer so I have a suggestion if you don't mind?
    I've been around IM for about 3 years and the easiest money system I've ever came across is called Kindle and Creatspace. So if you really can write and I mean write good content you can make a fortune there and on the top you can have hungry follwers!
    I wish you all the best.
    Jorge
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  • Profile picture of the author Lyanna
    Would you like to enter the world of self-publishing? Kindle is hot right now.
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Originally Posted by Lyanna View Post

      Would you like to enter the world of self-publishing? Kindle is hot right now.
      I actually have 3 Kindle books selling. Two music trivia books and one fantasy
      novel. I'm lucky if I make 2 sales a month.

      I've given up on Kindle. There is no point in spending weeks writing a book for
      that kind of result.
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      • Profile picture of the author Lyanna
        Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

        I actually have 3 Kindle books selling. Two music trivia books and one fantasy
        novel. I'm lucky if I make 2 sales a month.

        I've given up on Kindle. There is no point in spending weeks writing a book for
        that kind of result.
        Aw, that's too bad.
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      • Profile picture of the author bwh1
        Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

        I've given up on Kindle. There is no point in spending weeks writing a book for
        that kind of result.
        That's understandable but there are people who make a good money at Kindle so it's not a question of the platform, rather then on your strategy.

        Somehow the same with IM.

        Did you tweaked your book graphic, the title or your listing. Are you in a niche which sells?

        When we are down, everything seams to work against us.

        G.
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      • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
        Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

        I actually have 3 Kindle books selling. Two music trivia books and one fantasy
        novel. I'm lucky if I make 2 sales a month.

        I've given up on Kindle. There is no point in spending weeks writing a book for
        that kind of result.
        I have three books on Kindle. Combined, they bring in about $1,000 a month..plus several thousand dollars a month in new client fees. they are marketing and advertising books. The only promotion I do is list the books on various websites when the books are free to download 5 days every 3 months.

        Fantasy is big, but it really works better if there is a series. I know nothing about the music trivia niche.

        But there are several authors here that pop out a book a month, and are doing quite well with it. The Warrior Book Club Forum is a great help.
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        • Profile picture of the author bwh1
          Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

          I have three books on Kindle. Combined, they bring in about $1,000 a month..plus several thousand dollars a month in new client fees. they are marketing and advertising books. The only promotion I do is list the books on various websites when the books are free to download 5 days every 3 months.

          Fantasy is big, but it really works better if there is a series. I know nothing about the music trivia niche.

          But there are several authors here that pop out a book a month, and are doing quite well with it. The Warrior Book Club Forum is a great help.
          Cool, always thought on getting clients over Amazon Kindle. Seams to work for you.

          G.
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      • Profile picture of the author Karen Blundell
        Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

        I actually have 3 Kindle books selling. Two music trivia books and one fantasy
        novel. I'm lucky if I make 2 sales a month.

        I've given up on Kindle. There is no point in spending weeks writing a book for
        that kind of result.
        how did you price them and what have you done to promote them? Did you give anyone here copies so that we can get you some reviews? Do that for starters - then write some press releases and blog posts about your books. Also guest blog in those niches and embrace the power of social media to spread the word.

        Kindle pricing is typically:
        fiction: $.99 to $1.99
        non-fiction: $2.99 to $9.99

        If a once unknown writer - barely past her teens can become a millionaire from writing fiction published to Kindle and only charging the above prices, so can you.

        with your writing abilities, Steven, I wouldn't give up so soon. Unless you are truly just burned out - in which case, my advice would be to take a break from everything.

        I wish you every happiness and success with whatever you decide to do.
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  • Profile picture of the author vne5
    I'll give you a bit to think about. I was a full-time road musician for 18 years. I met my wife while in China and obviously got married. I was on the road performing 6 nights a week for 18 years. I gave up music, moved to China, and now have a family to support. I did this in country where I still don't to this day speak the language, and I had to find ways to make ends meet without even being able to work legally.

    I started off saying I cant do this, and I cant do that, and all it did was make me miserable and drive my motivation into the ground. Guess what, negative thinking breeds negative results...PERIOD!

    If you look around you, everything you see has made someone a millionaire!!! Your clothing, your furniture, your housing, even the concrete in your drive-way was provided by a entrepreneur that said.. "i'll bet you someone needs concrete".

    I now own a media company in Beijing that I built from scratch doing nothing but filling a market need!!! I can't do this, and I can't do that, and this won't work...BLAH, BLAH, BLAH.. doesn't accomplish anything but waisting oxygen.

    Ask yourself, what do I need? What do I wish was better? How can I make something better? What need can I fill?

    Don't be so narrow minded on only one talent. We all have tons of them...Just find yours!

    The answers are all in your head man.. You just need to be positive and look for them.
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Originally Posted by vne5 View Post

      I'll give you a bit to think about. I was a full-time road musician for 18 years. I met my wife while in China and obviously got married. I was on the road performing 6 nights a week for 18 years. I gave up music, moved to China, and now have a family to support. I did this in country where I still don't to this day speak the language, and I had to find ways to make ends meet without even being able to work legally.

      I started off saying I cant do this, and I cant do that, and all it did was make me miserable and drive my motivation into the ground. Guess what, negative thinking breeds negative results...PERIOD!

      If you look around you, everything you see has made someone a millionaire!!! Your clothing, your furniture, your housing, even the concrete in your drive-way was provided by a entrepreneur that said.. "i'll bet you someone needs concrete".

      I now own a media company in Beijing that I built from scratch doing nothing but filling a market need!!! I can't do this, and I can't do that, and this won't work...BLAH, BLAH, BLAH.. doesn't accomplish anything but waisting oxygen.

      Ask yourself, what do I need? What do I wish was better? How can I make something better? What need can I fill?

      Don't be so narrow minded on only one talent. We all have tons of them...Just find yours!

      The answers are all in your head man.. You just need to be positive and look for them.
      Short answer. I won't do something I don't enjoy doing. I'm too old to start
      selling widgets just to make a buck if I'm miserable selling them.

      If I reach the point where I'm destitute and have no choice, maybe.

      Not now. NOW...I do something that I want to do.
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  • Profile picture of the author travlinguy
    Making the page visually appealing isn't going to do squat. It's the market. They don't recognize the need for good content. They think they can get it for chump change. And affiliates aren't much interested in stuff that the marketplace itself is rejecting. Affiliates are looking for exciting, sexy offers that promise the moon on autopilot.
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    • Profile picture of the author bwh1
      Originally Posted by travlinguy View Post

      Making the page visually appealing isn't going to do squat. It's the market. They don't recognize the need for good content. They think they can get it for chump change. And affiliates aren't much interested in stuff that the marketplace itself is rejecting. Affiliates are looking for exciting, sexy offers that promise the moon on autopilot.
      While I agree with you on this I would like to point out why I wrote my comment.



      I would base my product on what people search for. PLR is definitely one of the better niches in here.

      G.
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  • Profile picture of the author webrankingservices
    Banned
    I really feel sorry for you dear. You can never compete with those $6 writers, However you must be having some competitive advantage over them also. You must have some competitive advantage from your past experience. You had not mentioned the skill you were best at or else I had suggested you some.
    In short keep experimenting, You will get the success.
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  • Profile picture of the author lcombs
    Steven, it just occurred to me.
    If your articles are about IM, then why
    are you having trouble with IM?
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Originally Posted by lcombs View Post

      Steven, it just occurred to me.
      If your articles are about IM, then why
      are you having trouble with IM?
      Because when I wrote my articles, I wasn't having trouble with IM. Then Google changed the "rules" and everything went to hell.

      Things change. Science articles written in the 1800s hardly apply today for many
      things.

      We don't live in a stagnant world.
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      • Profile picture of the author lcombs
        Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

        Because when I wrote my articles, I wasn't having trouble with IM. Then Google changed the "rules" and everything went to hell.

        Things change. Science articles written in the 1800s hardly apply today for many
        things.

        We don't live in a stagnant world.
        Submitted that post in haste.
        I apologize.

        Actually the "Panda" was the last straw for me.
        So, with the exception of a couple of accounts and some referrals I closed up shop, and sold my sites.

        However, I did get an email recently about a "new" SEO course.
        Rather expensive membership site that teaches the same methods I use.
        What was old is new again, I suppose. :p
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        • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
          Originally Posted by lcombs View Post

          Submitted that post in haste.
          I apologize.

          Actually the "Panda" was the last straw for me.
          So, with the exception of a couple of accounts and some referrals I closed up shop, and sold my sites.

          However, I did get an email recently about a "new" SEO course.
          Rather expensive membership site that teaches the same methods I use.
          What was old is new again, I suppose. :p
          No need to apologize. That's why I keep telling people not to take anything
          for granted because things change and just because they're making money
          today doesn't mean they will tomorrow. Look at all the big corporations
          throughout history that went out of business.

          I'm going to come back. It's just a matter of time.
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          • Profile picture of the author bwh1
            Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

            Look at all the big corporations
            throughout history that went out of business.
            Mostly they died because they are not seeing the trends and miss to apply changes or they are simply lousy in terms of quality.

            Look at IBM PC's for example.

            I'm going to come back. It's just a matter of time.
            That's the first step to success, self confidence.

            Sure you will.

            G.
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  • Profile picture of the author frankm
    I arrived here after reading another thread and checking your profile to see what you were up to now... this thread and that are light years apart but there might be something in the other one that gives you a spark...

    http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...50k-month.html
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Originally Posted by frankm View Post

      I arrived here after reading another thread and checking your profile to see what you were up to now... this thread and that are light years apart but there might be something in the other one that gives you a spark...

      http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...50k-month.html
      The thread is 5 years old. In 2008 I was making close to 6 figures. There is no
      way to know if anything in that thread even works anymore. This isn't 2008
      anymore. If it was, I wouldn't be having the problems that I'm having.

      Do you have any idea how many successful marketers from 2008 are now
      broke today? You don't hear about them because they're not as candid as I
      am, but trust me, there are a lot of us out there.
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  • Profile picture of the author LeeLee
    I enjoy your emails Steve and find you inspirational... except when you get down like this. Then I think if someone as talented as Steve is ready to throw the towel in on this IM thing, what chance do I have?

    So I hope you get happier soon.

    There has been a lot of interesting discussion in this thread about what is and isn't working these days. I remember probably about a year ago a lot of noise being made about curation and silos. I was wondering if anyone was doing much with these kinds of sites?
    Signature
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    • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
      Originally Posted by LeeLee View Post

      I enjoy your emails Steve and find you inspirational... except when you get down like this. Then I think if someone as talented as Steve is ready to throw the towel in on this IM thing, what chance do I have?

      So I hope you get happier soon.
      Same here, it saddens me to see you down like this especially with what you've been through over the years.

      I'll say this though, when I read you say things like this...

      I'm going to come back. It's just a matter of time
      ....I know hell will likely freeze over if you don't.

      Good luck Steve, I know you can do it and if I can help, just ask.
      Signature

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  • Life really is funny, isn't it?
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Originally Posted by reputablemarketing View Post

      Life really is funny, isn't it?
      Funny isn't quite the word I'd use. More like unpredictable.

      One thing is for certain. I will never take anything for granted ever again.
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  • Profile picture of the author derekwong28
    Steven, good luck to whatever you decide to do. You were very brave to write what has happened to your business. Like you and many other old timers, I was repeatedly badly hit by Google from 2008 onwards. Google mounted waves upon waves of attack on small businesses, whether in terms of SEO, Adsense or Adwords. They may or may not have targeted small businesses directly, but they certainly targeted techniques than many small businesses use because of the lack or time or money. The tone of this forum has definitely soured a bit in the past few years. There must be lots of others who are similarly affected but did not want admit it.

    I was repeatedly hit for selling links and using MFA sites. I was well aware that what I was doing was very risky. It could that I planed for failure and that I rarely worked that hard that my link business was able to survive until last year. Even then, it did not fail because of a Google update. It failed because people discovered a loophole where they could produce high PR sites that seems to be genuine at first. As a result, the market for links on high PR sites collapsed and my inventory was regarded suspiciously by link buyers. Despite it being not a “real business model”, I don’t regret any of it. I was one of the largest individual link seller around and it was so lucrative and involved so little work. You will be shocked to know who is involved in buying links on a massive scale. Those who have bought links on my sites looked like a roll call of top 500 sites on the net.

    Although this disaster happened in May last year, I managed to successfully switched focus to affiliate marketing by January this time. This time, I am mainly using PPC and this is something I have always wanted to try but could not get it to work. However, my earlier experience as a merchant was invaluable because I knew exactly what type of keywords and products would convert. Although my link sales is one tenth of what it was, I am no longer worried about it.

    I don’t know much about your business but surely you are the expert on it. If articles and PLR don’t work well for you anymore, it will probably not work well for others either. I did use PLR articles to construct my link selling sites but clearly that had collapsed. Do not feel that you must stick with whatever you have been doing. My message to you would be that it is completely possible to change your business direction completely, as I have done from e-commerce to link sales to affiliate marketing. Another point I want to make is that you should avoid being overworked excessively for prolonged periods in order to avoid being burntout. I am sure you have the dedication and knowledge to pull your business up again.
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Originally Posted by derekwong28 View Post

      Steven, good luck to whatever you decide to do. You were very brave to write what has happened to your business. Like you and many other old timers, I was repeatedly badly hit by Google from 2008 onwards. Google mounted waves upon waves of attack on small businesses, whether in terms of SEO, Adsense or Adwords. They may or may not have targeted small businesses directly, but they certainly targeted techniques than many small businesses use because of the lack or time or money. The tone of this forum has definitely soured a bit in the past few years. There must be lots of others who are similarly affected but did not want admit it.

      I was repeatedly hit for selling links and using MFA sites. I was well aware that what I was doing was very risky. It could that I planed for failure and that I rarely worked that hard that my link business was able to survive until last year. Even then, it did not fail because of a Google update. It failed because people discovered a loophole where they could produce high PR sites that seems to be genuine at first. As a result, the market for links on high PR sites collapsed and my inventory was regarded suspiciously by link buyers. Despite it being not a “real business model”, I don’t regret any of it. I was one of the largest individual link seller around and it was so lucrative and involved so little work. You will be shocked to know who is involved in buying links on a massive scale. Those who have bought links on my sites looked like a roll call of top 500 sites on the net.

      Although this disaster happened in May last year, I managed to successfully switched focus to affiliate marketing by January this time. This time, I am mainly using PPC and this is something I have always wanted to try but could not get it to work. However, my earlier experience as a merchant was invaluable because I knew exactly what type of keywords and products would convert. Although my link sales is one tenth of what it was, I am no longer worried about it.

      I don’t know much about your business but surely you are the expert on it. If articles and PLR don’t work well for you anymore, it will probably not work well for others either. I did use PLR articles to construct my link selling sites but clearly that had collapsed. Do not feel that you must stick with whatever you have been doing. My message to you would be that it is completely possible to change your business direction completely, as I have done from e-commerce to link sales to affiliate marketing. Another point I want to make is that you should avoid being overworked excessively for prolonged periods in order to avoid being burntout. I am sure you have the dedication and knowledge to pull your business up again.
      Thanks for the kind words Derek. I happen to know first hand from another
      person at this forum that a number of successful marketers have fallen on
      hard times because of the Google updates. I'm far from alone.

      It doesn't make it any easier though. But I'm working on something now that
      I think has a chance of being my biggest success ever. It's going to take a lot
      of coordination and some help from others, but I think I can pull it off.

      Time will tell.
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  • Profile picture of the author MikeAmbrosio
    Steve,

    You are definitely NOT alone. And you are right that so many of yesterday's IM millionaires and Guru's are not doing well today. In fact, what I have seen working for one guru would shock most people.

    But I can also tell you this... the main reason these other Guru's don't say anything public like you did is because 1) a bit of shame and embarrassment and 2) they are confident that they are going to rebound. And a few I know already have.

    I have seen your talent (with the stuff I read from the stalled project I started). It'll come around for you again, I am confident.

    As for that project, I have to apologize. Like you, my own on line business is basically dead. My last 6 figure year was 2011. 2012 dropped to mid-low 5 figures. This year, well...

    I refocused my business this year OFF line. I do consulting in the pharmaceutical industry and business is pretty good. But I am out of the house a lot because of it. I don't mind because it's what's keeping me over the 6 figure mark (two years in a row). And frankly, I do enjoy it

    I also burned out on this business and NEEDED to take a break and gain some new perspective. That said, I have decided to approach this business much as I did when I got started in 2004. As a "part time" gig. I LOVED doing this. But when I went to work for Mike, I was doing this 18 hours a day (between his business and my own). I got to hating it. But now, I spend my days consulting and I no longer work for Mike, so I am finding my interest perking up again.

    I still may do that site I discussed - not sure. The one thing I DO have in the IM world is reach. All I need is a good product idea, build it and I can get some good peole to promote it

    Anyway, hang in there. Like I said - you have talent and people with talent always find a way (well, the one I know, anyway).
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Originally Posted by MikeAmbrosio View Post

      Steve,

      You are definitely NOT alone. And you are right that so many of yesterday's IM millionaires and Guru's are not doing well today. In fact, what I have seen working for one guru would shock most people.

      But I can also tell you this... the main reason these other Guru's don't say anything public like you did is because 1) a bit of shame and embarrassment and 2) they are confident that they are going to rebound. And a few I know already have.

      I have seen your talent (with the stuff I read from the stalled project I started). It'll come around for you again, I am confident.

      As for that project, I have to apologize. Like you, my own on line business is basically dead. My last 6 figure year was 2011. 2012 dropped to mid-low 5 figures. This year, well...

      I refocused my business this year OFF line. I do consulting in the pharmaceutical industry and business is pretty good. But I am out of the house a lot because of it. I don't mind because it's what's keeping me over the 6 figure mark (two years in a row). And frankly, I do enjoy it

      I also burned out on this business and NEEDED to take a break and gain some new perspective. That said, I have decided to approach this business much as I did when I got started in 2004. As a "part time" gig. I LOVED doing this. But when I went to work for Mike, I was doing this 18 hours a day (between his business and my own). I got to hating it. But now, I spend my days consulting and I no longer work for Mike, so I am finding my interest perking up again.

      I still may do that site I discussed - not sure. The one thing I DO have in the IM world is reach. All I need is a good product idea, build it and I can get some good peole to promote it

      Anyway, hang in there. Like I said - you have talent and people with talent always find a way (well, the one I know, anyway).
      Mike, no need to apologize. I kind of figured it just couldn't be a priority for
      you. I understand.

      I do have a new product that I can use your help in promoting. Is it okay if
      I write to you and send it to you? I am going to offer an affiliate program for
      it. I think it's a very novel idea and I'm also getting Mike Lantz of WSO Pro
      to help me with it.

      If it's okay, I'll send you the details.
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  • Profile picture of the author Lanciau
    Wait a sec. You're selling a bunch of articles on how to make money when you can't make money yourself.

    A fat personal trainer came up to me yesterday. He told me that his knowledge was outdated by 6 years, and yet he still wanted my money.
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  • Profile picture of the author trader909
    Banned
    Problem with I.M. you he very little ownership. Playing by G's rules, or F.B.'s or Paypal. They make new rules...bang. back to start.

    It's 10X harder now than back in 2003-2008 for sure.
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      It's 10X harder now than back in 2003-2008 for sure.
      I don't agree - it's different but if you started in 2003 or earlier (as many of us here did) you didn't have all the instructions and blueprints and payment options now available.

      You paid more for domain registration and for hosting and many of the slick tools, plugins, etc people consider normal today didn't exist.

      Not sure why it's relevant in this thread in any case.
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      • Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

        I don't agree - it's different but if you started in 2003 or earlier (as many of us here did) you didn't have all the instructions and blueprints and payment options now available.

        You paid more for domain registration and for hosting and many of the slick tools, plugins, etc people consider normal today didn't exist.

        Not sure why it's relevant in this thread in any case.
        So true. Back in the late 90s and early 2000s everything was a hassle. Now you can set up a network of sites, autoresponders, payment gateways, and a high level sales funnel in one day.
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    • Profile picture of the author derekwong28
      Originally Posted by trader909 View Post


      It's 10X harder now than back in 2003-2008 for sure.
      There are many more ways to make money now but it is much more complicated technically and seems to be harder to make good money. You have also got much more competition from people living in developing countries. The easy automated ways to make money are also mostly gone.

      I am a bit cynical about this as I was one of the first to be hit by Google for selling links and using MFA sites. It seems that big sites can get away with buying and selling links whereas small ones cannot. We hear about the Panda and Penguin updates all the time but who has heard about the "May day" update? Google really went after small e-commerce sites in that update leaving the likes of Amazon and Newegg to take top listings.

      I saw through this and finally gave in completely late last year. Now I am using Adwords to generate the majority of my income. Google can actually be quite good to you if you pay them. I got invited to Google's local office a few weeks ago and my account representative went through my account thoroughly. As a result of that meeting, I have now increased my traffic and conversion rate substantially.
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  • Profile picture of the author trader909
    Banned
    The market place (sellers) has jumped up enormously past 7 years or so. it's very hard to make big money in crowded markets.
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  • Profile picture of the author trader909
    Banned
    Right but this made the barriers to entry a little higher and believe me...masses do not like to put in effort.

    I.M.H.O. it's a LOT harder now. You now have tens/hundreds thousands od mom and pop doing exactly the same as you.

    Pre 2005 it was so easy to game high rankings, get free traffic etc. Hell even P.P.C. was cost effective. Big keywords 25c each. Now they are $3+ It's maturing and becoming more efficient.

    So true. Back in the late 90s and early 2000s everything was a hassle. Now you can set up a network of sites, autoresponders, payment gateways, and a high level sales funnel in one day.
    course it can till be done but gone are the days where you run around with 50+ 1 page affiliate sites making you $500 each. You have to build a real brand/business. Maybe it's not a bad thing?
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    • Originally Posted by trader909 View Post

      Right but this made the barriers to entry a little higher and believe me...masses do not like to put in effort.

      I.M.H.O. it's a LOT harder now. You now have tens/hundreds thousands od mom and pop doing exactly the same as you.

      Pre 2005 it was so easy to game high rankings, get free traffic etc. Hell even P.P.C. was cost effective. Big keywords 25c each. Now they are $3+ It's maturing and becoming more efficient.

      course it can till be done but gone are the days where you run around with 50+ 1 page affiliate sites making you $500 each. You have to build a real brand/business. Maybe it's not a bad thing?
      You speak the truth-- but where we are is nothing compared to what the future holds. In 5 years we'll look back at 2013 like we look at pioneer days in the US. Keep digging because there are billions to be made on products/apps/companies/investments that don't even exist yet. How exciting is that?

      Crowdfunding for equity investments and real estate, for example, is going to blow up this year.
      Signature
      Marketing is not a battle of products. It is a battle of perceptions.
      - Jack Trout
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  • Profile picture of the author trader909
    Banned
    you'll find everyone is.
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I saw through this and finally gave in completely late last year. Now I am using Adwords to generate the majority of my income. Google can actually be quite good to you if you pay them. I got invited to Google's local office a few weeks ago and my account representative went through my account thoroughly. As a result of that meeting, I have now increased my traffic and conversion rate substantially.
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  • Profile picture of the author daavid3
    Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

    Life is so funny.

    You think maybe God has a sense of humor?
    I feel the exact same way!
    1 day I am making a killing then I run into problems with the law which makes me think "great! can't spend money in jail"
    When those problems went away so did my income. Now, my income becomes my biggest problem.
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      So is this how it ends...with total frustration?

      I admit that I am a complainer by nature, but lately it seems like the cosmos are
      determined to make me want to throw chairs through windows.

      It seems almost everybody I have contacted of late, either for JVs, questions,
      favors, or whatever, can't even have the decency to respond. The few who
      have and have tried to help me, thanks.

      The postal system is losing my mail. This is costing me time and money.

      My business is non existent so I can't afford the things I need to run it properly.

      The software I need to do the best job possible is either ungodly expensive,
      discontinued, or won't run on my PC.

      All attempts for support from various companies have resulted in more
      unanswered emails.

      My PC tech always seems to have a reason why he can't help me right away
      and then he never gets back to me when he says he will.

      I need to be more self sufficient technically with my computer but that ship
      has sailed. I don't have the time to take a course in PC repair and upgrades.
      And no, I don't even know how to figure out what kind of memory I need and
      how to put it in.

      I'm tired of being dependent on people because people are unreliable. You're
      lucky if you have 1 or 2 people in your life that are really there when you need
      them.

      The only reason I'm not naming names right now is because I still have some
      friends here and can't afford to be tossed out of this forum. But boy, could
      I tell you stories.

      With all that, I am more determined than ever to turn my life around, with or
      without anybody's help. I made it on my own 10 years ago, I can do it again
      if I have to.

      If I sound bitter, I am. For 10 years I NEVER asked ANYBODY for ANYTHING.
      One guy I sent one of my symphonies to (plus one followup) hasn't even had
      the decency to write back and tell me my music isn't good enough and he
      can't work with me.

      Another guy ASKED me to put him on my Skype and we would talk. That
      was 11 days ago and he still hasn't confirmed my Skype request.

      Why don't people just be up front and say "I don't have the time" or "I'm not
      interested" or "I can't help you?"

      Why do they have to get your hopes up and essentially lie to you?

      I'm so fed up with the human race.
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      • Profile picture of the author thunderbird
        Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

        <snip>

        Why don't people just be up front and say "I don't have the time" or "I'm not
        interested" or "I can't help you?"

        Why do they have to get your hopes up and essentially lie to you?

        I'm so fed up with the human race.
        If you're talking about show business, you would already know that's how they do it. They don't respond affirmatively or negatively. Then out of the blue, you might can an offer. Or not.

        Are we talking about your compositions? If so, I can help you find a talent agent if you want. I'm in Canada, so it would have to start with my Canadian connections.
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        Project HERE.

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        • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
          Originally Posted by thunderbird View Post

          If you're talking about show business, you would already know that's how they do it. They don't respond affirmatively or negatively. Then out of the blue, you might can an offer. Or not.

          Are we talking about your compositions? If so, I can help you find a talent agent if you want. I'm in Canada, so it would have to start with my Canadian connections.
          No, I'm talking about somebody who I contacted for a music JV. He has a
          royalty free music site and I thought maybe we could do something together.

          He writes back to me telling me to send him some samples and he'll let me know.

          So I do that. I even sent them on the day he told me to send them. That was
          11 days ago. I followed up. Still no reply.

          Trust me, I will never hear from this guy again.

          The Skype person, he's a member of this forum. If he didn't want to be
          bothered why didn't he just say "I can't help you."

          When people write to me I'm up front with them and tell them that I either
          don't have the time or I can't help them with what they want. I don't lie to
          people and say, "Sure, let's do something."

          Sure, I've had JVs that didn't work out because of creative differences. It
          happens. But I've never said to somebody sure and then disappear on them
          at least without some kind of explanation like "this isn't working for me."

          Just be straight with me. That's all I ask.
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          • Profile picture of the author AnneE
            Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post


            When people write to me I'm up front with them and tell them that I either
            don't have the time or I can't help them with what they want. I don't lie to
            people and say, "Sure, let's do something."

            Sure, I've had JVs that didn't work out because of creative differences. It
            happens. But I've never said to somebody sure and then disappear on them
            at least without some kind of explanation like "this isn't working for me."

            Just be straight with me. That's all I ask.
            Well I do have friends (never me, of course) who make promises they don't keep, but I don't think they do it intentionally, they just have other stuff come up that takes their attention and what they promised to do for me is a lower priority and falls by the wayside. It is frustrating to have that happen and it took me a while to realize it is just them being unrealistic about how many projects they can handle.

            Don't let a couple deadends keep you from exploring all avenues!! (my one-line sermon)... someone just said they have a Canadian talent agency contact, seems like that might be worth checking out.

            okay... off soapbox. talk to you later. Keep smiling. What? you weren't smiling?
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            • Profile picture of the author Daniel Deegan
              Hey Steve, you don't know me per se but I remember when you first joined the forum. Caused quite a stir...

              Just a want to make a few quick points. You may have to buckle up and just expand you skill set. You may not want to or feel like you can't afford to but honestly from when you first posted till now, assuming your not working you could have already added to your skill set. (technical, etc,)

              Look up the book the "first 20 hours". It's about the art of rapid skill acquisition.

              Another thing you could look into to help fill in the gaps is barter what your good at for tools and services you need.

              Lastly, one thing is VERY clear you can write VERY well. Have you thought about going the kindle publishing route? Your best bet is to do what you can right now for short term cash, even if that means writing multiple PLR wso's etc. While focusing on a long term strategy/plan.

              You mentioned not having money to buy traffic, however your WSO did make you some money. Multiply that and start moving towards paid traffic with whatever you can budget.

              Change that frame up. Sure grinding it out for 100-200 bucks might feel ruff, but that's because you where looking at that in the context of a business model instead of something to create short term cashflow for a long term plan.

              Another option might just to move out of this box. Maybe crowd fund an idea or teach a course on udemy.

              Embrace change and find a wave that you might enjoy. Your focus is heavily on finding a a income stream that is guaranteed or certain. If you dont want an actual JOB, then maybe cut your self some slack and give your self permission to experiment and time to change and adapt.
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  • Profile picture of the author AnneE
    Hold that chair!!! Just saw you had PMed me and I answered -- not that that makes everything wonderful, but you should at least put down the chair long enough to respond!!

    Anne
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  • Profile picture of the author AnneE
    I like your advice Daniel Deegan, but now you have me wondering about the stir Steve created.

    Steve, do you like Steve or Stephen better?
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Originally Posted by AnneE View Post

      I like your advice Daniel Deegan, but now you have me wondering about the stir Steve created.

      Steve, do you like Steve or Stephen better?
      Anne, my friends call me Wags. Steve is fine.

      Dan, I'm starting on a brand new business model getting into royalty free music.
      It's at least something I love regardless of how profitable it is. I think I can make
      it profitable and so I'm going to give it everything I've got.
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  • Profile picture of the author londoncoffee
    Hi there.
    I've been there and many have worn the T-shirt too. You seem like a pro with many years exp. Just avoid those joke gigs please! - Elance, Freelancer, Guru etc are all awash with people in Asia, Ukraine, Far East offering everything for peanuts. The people who buy on their want cheap and nasty - period!
    So, here's a few idea i have just for you:
    Start writing a book, something you are passionate about and which might appeal to a large fan base. Then go to Kickstarter dot Com and make a short intro video. And ask for backing, maybe £3000 or similar for a printed book and offer rewards to your backers. Go check out the site and it will explain what you can do.
    Check out under Publishing. You wouldn't believe some of the shit that raises 10K plus. But thankfully, most projects are quality.
    Good luck
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    • Profile picture of the author ANonnaMoose
      Talk to Travis Sago. If anyone can help you, he can. By the way, he has a very interesting new product out now: webinar is tomorrow at 7:00pm CST.

      Good luck and God bless you.

      -Moose

      P.S. Video marketing is working well these days. You could repurpose your articles into videos and/or create new vids.
      Signature
      A-Nonna-Moose
      Think loose; write tight.
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      • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
        Originally Posted by ANonnaMoose View Post

        Talk to Travis Sago. If anyone can help you, he can. By the way, he has a very interesting new product out now: webinar is tomorrow at 7:00pm CST.

        Good luck and God bless you.

        -Moose

        P.S. Video marketing is working well these days. You could repurpose your articles into videos and/or create new vids.
        Thanks but I'm done with the IM make money niche.
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  • Profile picture of the author Ruth Hendrickson
    Why don't you write a book and publish on Amazon? You're a great writer, and many would benefit from your insight..
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Originally Posted by Ruth Hendrickson View Post

      Why don't you write a book and publish on Amazon? You're a great writer, and many would benefit from your insight..
      Been there, done that, sold like half a dozen copies between 3 books. I'm done
      throwing good money and time after bad. If it doesn't work for me, I move on.
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  • Profile picture of the author smsrapp
    Hey Steve, it's been a couple of weeks since your last comment, and I hope that's because things are looking up! Sometimes we get down in a well and it takes a while to pull ourselves back out.
    I've had good luck with getting writing gigs through the Freedom With Writing site:
    We Send You Writing Jobs -- Freedom With Writing Magazine
    Free to join, and they regularly send email updates when new opportunities arise.
    But more than the work, I hope you find a way to feel better asap!
    Best of luck.
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Originally Posted by smsrapp View Post

      Hey Steve, it's been a couple of weeks since your last comment, and I hope that's because things are looking up! Sometimes we get down in a well and it takes a while to pull ourselves back out.
      I've had good luck with getting writing gigs through the Freedom With Writing site:
      We Send You Writing Jobs -- Freedom With Writing Magazine
      Free to join, and they regularly send email updates when new opportunities arise.
      But more than the work, I hope you find a way to feel better asap!
      Best of luck.
      I'm starting a new business, royalty free music. I just purchases wagsrfm.com
      the other day and a friend of mine is going to partner with me and do all the
      web and administrative work.

      In a little over a month I already have 223 songs completed for the site. I
      have a very good feeling about this.

      Time will tell.
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      • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
        Originally Posted by MissTerraK View Post

        Mr Kitty,

        Let me make a friendly suggestion to you. Perhaps you should go back to your kitty litter box and fiddle around in there since it holds the very thing you like to talk...crap!

        May I also suggest you pull back your kitty claws and leave our alley because there are a lot of Tom's around here and some female felines who can revert back to being feral when you attack one of ours. Go back to your scratching pad and claw at it instead.

        What are you waiting for? Get! Pfffft! Pffft! Low growl!

        Terra
        Hmmmmm!


        Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

        Well, I thought I'd update everybody on my PLR experiment.

        I put together a package of 50 IM related articles and 14 e-books. I broke them
        up into 4 separate packages starting at just $9.

        I launched the WSO yesterday as well as emailing my list.

        Today, I dropped off of page 1.

        These are my stats for the launch.

        200 WSO Views

        5 Sales

        Total Income = $168

        WSO Cost = $40

        Net Profit = $128

        Nothing to write home about.

        Do you have any idea how long it would take me to write another 50 articles
        and 14 e-books?

        Maybe PLR sells. But this didn't.

        So now I'm moving onto something else because doing the same thing over
        and over and expecting different results is the very definition of insanity.

        Thanks for the suggestion but it didn't work.

        Yep, l can relate to that, l created an e-book that sold for under $10, so l added some more PLR products with high quality box graphics.

        But sales dropped off, multiple products don't seem to work as WSO's? Or people get suspicious about multiple offers.

        I know that you have dumped this course of action, but thought that clarification might help?

        Although l have sold, quality OTO's on the back and most have done quite well, so???

        Testing to death might help?

        But l also joined a WSO club, and created a Wordpress app, that made over $1000 but most of that went to affiliates.

        Then l tried it with Adwords hoping to scale and found out that WP keywords are typing over $5 a click. Facebook, which is another very popular area on the WF, also have overpriced kw costs.

        I have been at this product creation thing for years, and know how hard it is. Or it is what l like to call tit-for-tat marketing....

        develop a WF high demand product and it will probably online work here, or be too expensive to run with paid traffic, etc!

        Do a make money product with Adwords and watch your account get banned for life.

        The list of crap goes on, but there is or are things online that work and are scalable. I know because l have found one; it is graphics based, so probably not helpful for you, but is a good example.

        Hopefully the music idea will take off! :p

        Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

        Because when I wrote my articles, I wasn't having trouble with IM. Then Google changed the "rules" and everything went to hell.

        Things change. Science articles written in the 1800s hardly apply today for many
        things.

        We don't live in a stagnant world.
        Yep, l have tried the copyright free 1800's idea as well, that is how l wrote a 110 page e-book on Chess. But it rarely sold, and l ended up putting it on my site for free, which gave me a whopping 20-30 more visitors per day!




        Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

        So is this how it ends...with total frustration?

        I admit that I am a complainer by nature, but lately it seems like the cosmos are
        determined to make me want to throw chairs through windows.

        It seems almost everybody I have contacted of late, either for JVs, questions,
        favors, or whatever, can't even have the decency to respond. The few who
        have and have tried to help me, thanks.

        The postal system is losing my mail. This is costing me time and money.

        My business is non existent so I can't afford the things I need to run it properly.

        The software I need to do the best job possible is either ungodly expensive,
        discontinued, or won't run on my PC.

        All attempts for support from various companies have resulted in more
        unanswered emails.

        My PC tech always seems to have a reason why he can't help me right away
        and then he never gets back to me when he says he will.

        I need to be more self sufficient technically with my computer but that ship
        has sailed. I don't have the time to take a course in PC repair and upgrades.
        And no, I don't even know how to figure out what kind of memory I need and
        how to put it in.

        I'm tired of being dependent on people because people are unreliable. You're
        lucky if you have 1 or 2 people in your life that are really there when you need
        them.

        The only reason I'm not naming names right now is because I still have some
        friends here and can't afford to be tossed out of this forum. But boy, could
        I tell you stories.

        With all that, I am more determined than ever to turn my life around, with or
        without anybody's help. I made it on my own 10 years ago, I can do it again
        if I have to.

        If I sound bitter, I am. For 10 years I NEVER asked ANYBODY for ANYTHING.
        One guy I sent one of my symphonies to (plus one followup) hasn't even had
        the decency to write back and tell me my music isn't good enough and he
        can't work with me.

        Another guy ASKED me to put him on my Skype and we would talk. That
        was 11 days ago and he still hasn't confirmed my Skype request.

        Why don't people just be up front and say "I don't have the time" or "I'm not
        interested" or "I can't help you?"

        Why do they have to get your hopes up and essentially lie to you?

        I'm so fed up with the human race.
        I am sure something good will come from the music idea, give it time.


        I felt the same way do did a while ago, l was at my wits end with everything, and after 5 years of trying with pretty much everything failing, l was ready to make my Laptop airborne!


        But l researched an area l thought was a waste of time, and found the graphics area l am currently working on. Still not easy to make it cough up, but like anything new, it takes time to figure out the rules.

        But it has everything going for it, so it is worth persisting with.

        But the point is, before l spit the dummy, l thought that apart from putting a couple of gigs worth of mainly crappy graphics together and selling it for $7 bucks, was the only way to make money from graphics?

        But now l know better!


        It seems like you are already doing that with music, and going to music sites and getting a feel for what sells the most is a good strategy, (although since you are thorough, no doubt you have already done that).

        Anyway good luck, and remember there is always something positive hidden or going to occur, so keep going!


        Shane
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  • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
    Originally Posted by Brian Owens View Post

    Steve, I don't know you, but I've seen a lot of your posts and know you've definitely hit a wall, and that's it.

    You've got a lot of "I can't" in you right now, and very little of it seems to be based in reality. It's just your perception of how things are going, and that is something we all face.

    Here's a few thoughts:

    "Methods are many, principles are few, methods always change, but principles never do"

    The reason you made money before has nothing to do with the article writing methods...

    It was the principle of high quality content preselling. Is that fair to assume?

    And that still works.

    Here's a few ideas, hope they get your creative juices flowing.

    1.) You can make music, and write good content. -- Why isn't YouTube your new EZineArticles? Everything you did before still works there. The videos rank in Google, and get a ton of internal traffic as well...and probably convert people better.

    Take your top 10 best performing articles from back in the day, convert them into videos, post'em up, and wait a few weeks to see if you've found your new traffic source.

    2.) You said above "No site I make will rank in Google." - Obviously, that's a rediculous notion. Of course they will.

    If google's the game you wanna play, just ask the question "Why does the guy in #1 rank #1?" - With all the research tools available at your disposal online, the answer to that question is a few clicks away. Replicate it yourself.

    3.) Just say no - To pessimism. And to cynicism. You're burnt out. You've tried a lot with not so great results. The natural tendency is to think "I don't wanna try that, it probably won't work".

    When you actually DO try it, you give it a half hearted attempt because you don't believe it'll work. So you get half hearted results, and the deadly cycle continues.

    Just TRY the above stuff. Do those 10 videos, build a few quality links, and keep rolling. 10 is just enough to prove me wrong. I think you'll find success, but if not, you have a new YouTube channel with 10 videos on it. Win - Win.

    Always remember:

    "Methods are many, principles are few, methods always change, but principles never do"

    It's not about what works...It's about WHY it works.

    If you know that, you can adapt easier.
    It would help if you read the whole thread. I'm past the wall. I'm starting a
    new business. I am very optimistic about it.

    In short, the OP is old news and no longer relevant.
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