Greenhouse Gas Emissions Reached New Highs In 2012, World Meterological Organization Says

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Greenhouse Gas Emissions Reached New Highs In 2012, World Meterological Organization Says
  • Profile picture of the author Kay King
    Of course it gets worse every year - and every years there are articles like that one saying "worse this year than last".

    Good to see at least the US doesn't lead in this category these days...

    U.S. once had air pollution to match China’s today

    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/31/wo...smog.html?_r=0

    Smog Blocks China’s Surveillance Cameras | TIME.com

    Delhi
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  • Profile picture of the author yukon
    Banned
    In other news glaciers melted creating the Great Lakes, Ohio & Mississippi rivers.

    Tell your friends...
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  • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
    What do they know? It's not like they have instruments to measure these things.
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    • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
      Yep, reached new highs after 15 years of nothing???


      Or translated it should say, "we know this cash cow is on its last legs, but we will still flog it til we can't flog it no more!".


      The more time that passes the deader the horse, and the more they will try to flog it. At least til the men on white suits come along!


      Shane
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      • Profile picture of the author HeySal
        Originally Posted by tagiscom View Post

        Yep, reached new highs after 15 years of nothing???


        Or translated it should say, "we know this cash cow is on its last legs, but we will still flog it til we can't flog it no more!".


        The more time that passes the deader the horse, and the more they will try to flog it. At least til the men on white suits come along!


        Shane
        That's right. In the US our freedom loving congress is now thinking about making us put black boxes in our cars so they can tax us a carbon tax for each mile we drive. The box also conveniently works as a GPS so "they" can tell where your car is at any given moment. Get ready for a LOT of CO2 warnings.

        On the other hand - those who REALLY care about the condition of the planet are working on reforestation efforts.
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        • Profile picture of the author ThomM
          Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

          That's right. In the US our freedom loving congress is now thinking about making us put black boxes in our cars so they can tax us a carbon tax for each mile we drive. The box also conveniently works as a GPS so "they" can tell where your car is at any given moment. Get ready for a LOT of CO2 warnings.

          On the other hand - those who REALLY care about the condition of the planet are working on reforestation efforts.
          For the most part every new car sold already has the black box. The "carbon tax" is interesting:rolleyes:
          I mean cars really aren't taxed that much now:rolleyes::rolleyes:
          First you pay a sales tax when you buy a car.
          Then a yearly registration fee (tax) for permission from the state to drive the car.
          Then Federal, State, and local tax on the gas you buy to use the car. Of course those last three taxes apply to everything you buy for the car from brake parts to body parts.
          Just with the gas alone we are already taxed for the miles we drive.
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          • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
            Number of posts needed to turn a strictly scientific issue into a political issue? Four.
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            • Profile picture of the author garyv
              Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

              Number of posts needed to turn a strictly scientific issue into a political issue? One.
              No one is saying that the science is not real. Just about everyone knows that the things you do effect the planet you live on. However "scientists" are always being caught fudging and manipulating these numbers so that someone else can make a buck. It's just about impossible for this to be a strictly scientific issue when the politics are already baked into the numbers.
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              • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                Originally Posted by garyv View Post

                . However "scientists" are always being caught fudging and manipulating these numbers so that someone else can make a buck.
                Maybe one scientist employed by an oil company. Not every scientist on the planet. The figures are the figures. You can try to make them mean anything you want. But the measurements remain the same.

                Originally Posted by travlinguy View Post

                Claude, do you not agree that scientific results can and are often influenced by political alliances?
                Interpretation of the fact? Sure. But the actual measurements of the CO2 levels? No.
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                • Profile picture of the author garyv
                  Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                  Maybe one scientist employed by an oil company. Not every scientist on the planet. The figures are the figures. You can try to make them mean anything you want. But the measurements remain the same.



                  Interpretation of the fact? Sure. But the actual measurements of the CO2 levels? No.
                  You can fudge the numbers - it's been done. Are you looking over their shoulders making sure that the numbers are being recorded properly?
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                  • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                    Originally Posted by garyv View Post

                    You can fudge the numbers - it's been done. Are you looking over their shoulders making sure that the numbers are being recorded properly?
                    One climatologist can fudge the numbers. But every climatologist on the planet? All fudging the measurements in the same way? That would be literally impossible.

                    Unless this is all a dream. And if it is, I want a smarter dream.

                    This has all been hashed out over and over and over and over and over again on this Forum.

                    You can only hear a joke so many times, before it isn't funny anymore.

                    And this isn't funny anymore. I'll leave this to more interested people.
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                • Profile picture of the author HeySal
                  Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                  Maybe one scientist employed by an oil company. Not every scientist on the planet. The figures are the figures. You can try to make them mean anything you want. But the measurements remain the same.



                  Interpretation of the fact? Sure. But the actual measurements of the CO2 levels? No.
                  Lies are told in these arenas, though. They figure that the average joe isn't going to have access to actual data. During the warming talks India was furious with the IPCC - walked out on them - because they (IPCC) said the Himalayas were melting. India's scientists who were actually ON the glacier studying it called them on their lie. THOSE scientists said there was nothing wrong with the glaciers.

                  There's also the case that some glaciers are not melting......the scientists say there's no heating on many of them. What's happened is that the forests below them have been cut, so there is simply no moisture left to produce snow.

                  It's easy to lie to people about science. You should hear the pure shyte that comes out of the Smithsonian about achaeological findings. You should know about some stuff that's been found and has been kept under wraps.

                  When it comes to science, Joe Q Public is told exactly what they want us to know.....it doesn't have to be truth or even close. The general public is looked down on as a special breed of cattle that can (somewhat) speak in a human language.
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            • Profile picture of the author travlinguy
              Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

              Number of posts needed to turn a strictly scientific issue into a political issue? Four.
              Claude, do you not agree that scientific results can and are often influenced by political alliances? Varying results for science and other so called "objective" issues almost always come down to interpretation. And without a doubt, interpretation is influenced by business, politics, religion and many other things.
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          • Profile picture of the author HeySal
            Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

            For the most part every new car sold already has the black box. The "carbon tax" is interesting:rolleyes:
            I mean cars really aren't taxed that much now:rolleyes::rolleyes:
            First you pay a sales tax when you buy a car.
            Then a yearly registration fee (tax) for permission from the state to drive the car.
            Then Federal, State, and local tax on the gas you buy to use the car. Of course those last three taxes apply to everything you buy for the car from brake parts to body parts.
            Just with the gas alone we are already taxed for the miles we drive.

            Ya left one out...........when I moved down to CA to my sister's for that year - - DMV wouldn't plate my car without paying taxes on it AGAIN. They wanted $1,500 to plate that rig. I ended up refusing to plate it because I didn't know how long I'd be there and didn't work there, no benefits there - I didn't even RENT there. I went down because my sister asked me to come. Anyhow - I just replated to ID where I'd just come from for a hundred bucks and was out of there before they came due again anyway. Did all my work online till then.

            Yeah, new vehicles have black boxes that are tied to GPS, but they don't do the gas mileage thing -- if the bill passes, ALL cars will have to have one. Period. Things are just out of control in this country. In CA they put up "smart meters" on people's houses to monitor energy use. They put off a very dangerous radiation, too.

            "1984 was not supposed to be an instruction manual." ~ author unknown
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  • Profile picture of the author travlinguy
    The World Meteorological Organization (WMO) is a specialized agency of the United Nations.

    Oh, boy. Why am I not surprised.
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Blame politicians who have turned everything in our lives into political issues. Science is not supposed to be edited by politicians, either - but it is.......and very heavily. When listening to a scientist........follow the money. Where's his funding coming from. It makes a big difference in the science that person is purporting.

    When greenhouse gases become the problem, SCIENTISTS will be reforesting. Period. Politicians will be seeing how to make money from it.
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  • Profile picture of the author MikeTucker
    Perhaps even more than alcohol, the Atlantic Cod was the single most
    important resource in early American history, and it allowed the USA
    to become the greatest economic power in recent world history.
    (It was, in fact, both a primary reason for the Revolutionary War,
    and one of the biggest reasons we were able to win it!)

    Scientists of the time warned, begged, and pleaded with the government
    and the public at large, trying to get them from over-fishing.

    But the larger fishing companies began a campaign of rumors, lies,
    misinformation, and "fish stories" that convinced just enough people
    not to worry about it that nothing was ever done.

    Among the articles, they often took a fact such as how the cod
    lays millions of eggs, and then explained that it was arrogant to
    imagine that mankind could have any effect on a creature so well
    protected by "god".

    Thus, one of the most successful creatures in the history of this planet
    was decimated to the point that they still haven't recovered over a
    hundred years later, and might not ever.

    When US Constitution was signed, Atlantic Cod was one of the cheapest
    foods in the world, normally reserved for the extreme poor, slaves, and
    for trade with other countries. Atlantic Cod was the "Ramen Noodles"
    of early America.

    This morning at the grocery store, Atlantic Cod was over $28 per pound.

    http://www.fishwatch.gov/seafood_pro...lantic_cod.htm
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    • Profile picture of the author yukon
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      Originally Posted by MikeTucker View Post

      Perhaps even more than alcohol, the Atlantic Cod was the single most
      important resource in early American history, and it allowed the USA
      to become the greatest economic power in recent world history.
      (It was, in fact, both a primary reason for the Revolutionary War,
      and one of the biggest reasons we were able to win it!)

      Scientists of the time warned, begged, and pleaded with the government
      and the public at large, trying to get them from over-fishing.

      But the larger fishing companies began a campaign of rumors, lies,
      misinformation, and "fish stories" that convinced just enough people
      not to worry about it that nothing was ever done.

      Among the articles, they often took a fact such as how the cod
      lays millions of eggs, and then explained that it was arrogant to
      imagine that mankind could have any effect on a creature so well
      protected by "god".

      Thus, one of the most successful creatures in the history of this planet
      was decimated to the point that they still haven't recovered over a
      hundred years later, and might not ever.

      When US Constitution was signed, Atlantic Cod was one of the cheapest
      foods in the world, normally reserved for the extreme poor, slaves, and
      for trade with other countries. Atlantic Cod was the "Ramen Noodles"
      of early America.

      This morning at the grocery store, Atlantic Cod was over $28 per pound.

      NOAA - FishWatch: Atlantic Cod
      A similar thing happened with logging on the east coast (US) in the late 1800's. A lot of people back then believed there was so much lumber it would last forever. The difference is a wealthy person (George W. Vanderbilt) appreciated natural landscapes & financed the first forestry school in the US. This was the start of sustainable forest. If you've ever been to the southern states (US) the managed pine plantations are obvious.

      I watched a documentary on the subject.
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    • Profile picture of the author garyv
      Originally Posted by MikeTucker View Post

      Perhaps even more than alcohol, the Atlantic Cod was the single most
      important resource in early American history, and it allowed the USA
      to become the greatest economic power in recent world history.
      (It was, in fact, both a primary reason for the Revolutionary War,
      and one of the biggest reasons we were able to win it!)

      Scientists of the time warned, begged, and pleaded with the government
      and the public at large, trying to get them from over-fishing.

      But the larger fishing companies began a campaign of rumors, lies,
      misinformation, and "fish stories" that convinced just enough people
      not to worry about it that nothing was ever done.

      Among the articles, they often took a fact such as how the cod
      lays millions of eggs, and then explained that it was arrogant to
      imagine that mankind could have any effect on a creature so well
      protected by "god".

      Thus, one of the most successful creatures in the history of this planet
      was decimated to the point that they still haven't recovered over a
      hundred years later, and might not ever.

      When US Constitution was signed, Atlantic Cod was one of the cheapest
      foods in the world, normally reserved for the extreme poor, slaves, and
      for trade with other countries. Atlantic Cod was the "Ramen Noodles"
      of early America.

      This morning at the grocery store, Atlantic Cod was over $28 per pound.

      NOAA - FishWatch: Atlantic Cod

      Back then there wasn't a billion dollar industry that stood to gain money from forcing people into alternative forms of fish.

      Today we have the "green energy" industry, which is very innovative - but also rife with corruption at the highest levels. When you have current government giving out billions of dollars in loans to companies that then go bankrupt shortly after, it makes you highly suspect of previous leaders that are now worth 100s of millions of dollars. Especially when those previous leaders have their hands in the green energy cookie jar right up to their elbows.

      It's curious how you could back a company that goes bankrupt right after receiving a half a billion dollar loan from the government, and some how walk away with millions of dollars.
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      • Profile picture of the author Kurt
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        • Profile picture of the author garyv
          Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

          This is so one-sided it's laughable. You pretend that Big Oil doesn't get 1000X as much help from the Gov. See lower corp tax rates as well as wars in the Middle East to protect their assets, costing us to the tune of TRILLIONS OF DOLLARS.

          Let's ask Joe Barton, who not only apologized to BP after the Gulf oil spill, he actually said that wind power will increase global warming due to obstructing the wind. That's our energy "leadership" for you.

          And of course, previous administrations had no connections with Big Oil, whatsoever. :rolleyes:

          At least we don't have to worry about Big Oil ever going bankrupt.
          I'm not going to argue with you on that one. I agree - there's huge corruption in that industry as well. I'm just trying to make the point that the corruption and the vast amounts of money to be made makes it hard to trust the numbers. Especially when a lot of the time current "scientific data" actually turns out to be political or money-grabbing propaganda. -- I'm not saying that all of it is. I'm just saying that we've gotten ourselves into a mess by allowing this corruption to happen. The money grabbing cries of wolf are going to make us miss the actual wolf attack.
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      • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
        Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

        Ya left one out...........when I moved down to CA to my sister's for that year - - DMV wouldn't plate my car without paying taxes on it AGAIN. They wanted $1,500 to plate that rig. I ended up refusing to plate it because I didn't know how long I'd be there and didn't work there, no benefits there - I didn't even RENT there. I went down because my sister asked me to come. Anyhow - I just replated to ID where I'd just come from for a hundred bucks and was out of there before they came due again anyway. Did all my work online till then.

        Yeah, new vehicles have black boxes that are tied to GPS, but they don't do the gas mileage thing -- if the bill passes, ALL cars will have to have one. Period. Things are just out of control in this country. In CA they put up "smart meters" on people's houses to monitor energy use. They put off a very dangerous radiation, too.

        "1984 was not supposed to be an instruction manual." ~ author unknown
        Yep, Aussies have those things, too!

        There was a case of someone getting an electrician to pull it out and install an old mechanical system, because it was near his daughters bedroom!

        He was concerned about the radiation, and couldn't get a straight answer from the energy company!


        He got his electricity supply cut as a result!


        I know that these things put out radiation, but no more than a typical Wi-Fi.

        Obviously not a good thing to have next to a baby or young child's bedroom.


        Shane
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  • Profile picture of the author garyv
    Also - you'll know that our Government is serious about our situation and not just money-grabbing, once they put sanctions on China. Until then, it's impossible to take them seriously.
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    • Profile picture of the author MikeTucker
      Originally Posted by MikeTucker View Post

      But the larger fishing companies began a campaign of rumors, lies,
      misinformation, and "fish stories" that convinced just enough people
      not to worry about it that nothing was ever done.
      Case in point:

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      • Profile picture of the author myob
        It appears we may be finally starting to at least slow down emissions. A very long way to go yet though!

        BBC report:

        BBC News - Report suggests slowdown in CO2 emissions rise

        I think we'll see a turnaround in China (from increasing to decreasing) within the next ten years, if only because their cities are choking. According to some reports I expect economic and social collapse on a wide scale over the same sort of period.

        Continued de-industrialisation in Europe and impoverishment in the US will also reduce emissions. All in all, it's time to pull your money out of fossil-fuel stocks and get into renewables. The carbon bubble will burst and it's best to be far away when that happens.
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        • Profile picture of the author MikeTucker
          Originally Posted by myob View Post

          It appears we may be finally starting to at least slow down emissions. A very long way to go yet though!

          BBC report:

          BBC News - Report suggests slowdown in CO2 emissions rise

          I think we'll see a turnaround in China (from increasing to decreasing) within the next ten years, if only because their cities are choking. According to some reports I expect economic and social collapse on a wide scale over the same sort of period.

          Continued de-industrialisation in Europe and impoverishment in the US will also reduce emissions. All in all, it's time to pull your money out of fossil-fuel stocks and get into renewables. The carbon bubble will burst and it's best to be far away when that happens.
          In the US, Oil & Gas are currently little more than 1% of the GPD, and yet
          over the next 5 years they are projected to drive 25% of the job growth.

          The current boom is predicted to be the longest in history, and most
          experts agree that the bust will come somewhere between 2018 and 2022,
          although it could last through 2025 depending on how accurate current
          models turn out to be.


          Edit: All this in addition to the coming changes in emissions, if that wasn't clear.
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          • Profile picture of the author myob
            Originally Posted by MikeTucker View Post

            In the US, Oil & Gas are currently little more than 1% of the GPD, and yet
            over the next 5 years they are projected to drive 25% of the job growth.

            The current boom is predicted to be the longest in history, and most
            experts agree that the bust will come somewhere between 2018 and 2022,
            although it could last through 2025 depending on how accurate current
            models turn out to be.


            Edit: All this in addition to the coming changes in emissions, if that wasn't clear.
            The melting sea ice in the Arctic is opening up vast new frontiers for economical oil and gas exploitation, which may mean extending the boom times well into 2050.
            Due to rising global temperatures, sea ice in the Arctic is melting quickly, opening up vast new frontiers to oil and gas development.
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            • Profile picture of the author ThomM
              Originally Posted by myob View Post

              The melting sea ice in the Arctic is opening up vast new frontiers for economical oil and gas exploitation, which may mean extending the boom times well into 2050.
              Due to rising global temperatures, sea ice in the Arctic is melting quickly, opening up vast new frontiers to oil and gas development.
              I read something else interesting about the melting Arctic sea ice (can't find the link at the moment).
              The article talked about the minerals released from the ice. It said the plankton feed on the minerals causing their population to increase. In turn the animals that feed on plankton have more food causing their population to increase, and so on.
              Good thing Japan is fighting all that increased sea life with radiation I guess.
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            • Profile picture of the author MikeTucker
              Originally Posted by myob View Post

              The melting sea ice in the Arctic is opening up vast new frontiers for economical oil and gas exploitation, which may mean extending the boom times well into 2050.
              Due to rising global temperatures, sea ice in the Arctic is melting quickly, opening up vast new frontiers to oil and gas development.
              From what I'm told, that should result in a second boom in the 20's.
              They are still expecting a bust? I suppose we'll see when the time comes,
              but I for one would prefer sooner than later.

              A billion people around the world driving their vehicles every day, many
              of them with little or no emissions regulations, I'm no scientist but that has
              to be doing something!
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              • Profile picture of the author myob
                Originally Posted by MikeTucker View Post

                From what I'm told, that should result in a second boom in the 20's.
                They are still expecting a bust? I suppose we'll see when the time comes,
                but I for one would prefer sooner than later.

                A billion people around the world driving their vehicles every day, many
                of them with little or no emissions regulations, I'm no scientist but that has
                to be doing something!
                There's going to be crashes and perhaps a few busts at least until about 2050, but that's been going on since the stock market began in 1792. However, just like ocean temperatures, the overall trend is up. Way up.

                Oh, and BTW, if greenhouse emissions continue their steady escalation, temperatures across most of the earth will also be way up. They will rise to levels with no recorded precedent by then, according to climatologists.

                Scientists from the University of Hawaii at Manoa calculated that by 2047, plus or minus five years, the average temperatures in each year will be hotter across most parts of the planet than they had been at those locations in any year between 1860 and 2005.

                To put it in another way, for a given geographic area, "the coldest year in the future will be warmer than the hottest year in the past," said Camilo Mora, the lead scientist on the paper published in the journal Nature.

                To put it in another way, if current trends in CO2 emissions continue, we will be pushing most of the ecosystems of the world into climatic conditions that they have not experienced for many millions of years.

                To put it in another way, the record 195 mph hurricane that recently hit the Philippines and the record high levels in greenhouse gas emissions are not just a coincidence. In the climatologists' model of coming attractions from the effects of rising CO2 levels, extreme weather patterns are to become the new norm.

                By 2047, Coldest Years May Be Warmer Than Hottest in the Past - NY Times

                The referenced paper was published in the October 2013 issue of Nature.
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      • Profile picture of the author garyv
        Originally Posted by MikeTucker View Post

        Case in point:
        Good try - but that was the telegraph's headlines not mine. I fall more in line with how wikileaks summed it up...

        CRU emails reveal a worrying pattern of bad behaviour - WikiLeaks

        I'm not a denier. I honestly don't think there are many "deniers" out here. Most people know that what we do effects the planet. Some of us just have a lesser degree of over-reacting. We too want to make sure the planet is preserved, but refuse to believe that we need to spend billions of dollars on theories that never pan out. Especially when there are people that could care less if the planet croaks in the future, because they are going to croak today if they don't get a bite to eat.

        And do you remember this picture?...


        We were all forced to feel guilty over the "inconvenient truth" that the polar icecaps were melting. Most news agencies including the BBC reported in 2007 that global warming would leave the Arctic ice-free by the summer of 2013.

        http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...s-29-year.html

        How "inconvenient" for them that the polar ice cap actually grew by 29% since this time last year.

        I've been watching this fiasco since the 70s when my science teacher and every news report back then warned that we'd all be frozen by now. - The "scientists" predictions almost always fall flat - in fact just the opposite usually happens.

        All I'm saying is that if this is a completely understood science, then there should be a completely predictable outcome. But so far the outcomes have not been reliably predicted at all - not even close. So I say we dial back the "this is the end" rhetoric, until we have some theories and reliable science that can actually predict what's going to happen. So far all the fear mongering has done is made a few people rich - and bilked the rest of us out of billions in tax money.
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        • Profile picture of the author MikeTucker
          Originally Posted by garyv View Post

          Good try - but that was the telegraph's headlines
          That was my point.

          "Fifties Somethings"
          "Imagining God as a woman? That's like farting against thunder"
          "Theresa May needs to ditch the kinky boots"

          Aside from the silly headlines and stories, it's difficult for me
          to take a "news" site seriously when they have their own
          online dating service. :p
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        • Profile picture of the author yukon
          Banned
          Originally Posted by garyv View Post

          And do you remember this picture?...
          Why is that polar bear mounting a big ice cube?
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        • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
          Originally Posted by garyv View Post

          How "inconvenient" for them that the polar ice cap actually grew by 29% since this time last year.
          Gary;

          The arctic is shrinking rapidly.

          The Antarctic is growing rapidly. But it's growing because the ocean flow has been disrupted by the warming of the oceans. So he cold is being sealed in.

          Arctic=North Pole (You know, Santa all that)
          Antarctic = South Pole (Anti-Santa and his evil minions)

          Got it?
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          • Profile picture of the author MikeTucker
            Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

            Some people check the dates of satellite pics before believing what are being told
            C'mon, don't be spreading doubt. If you don't want to believe,
            that's fine, but don't ruin it for the children!


            Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

            To everyone; I am now going to look up what Sal said. Why? Because I could be wrong, and I want to learn.
            Don't let her make you doubt yourself, Claude.
            I can confirm that what you said is absolutely true:


            Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

            Arctic=North Pole (You know, Santa all that)
            Antarctic = South Pole (Anti-Santa and his evil minions)
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  • Profile picture of the author David Maschke
    [DELETED]
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    • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
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      • Profile picture of the author ThomM
        climate change deniers
        TL I don't believe anyone is a climate change denier. Many don't believe in global warming, but that is different. Many don't believe man is responsible at all for global warming, but that is also different.
        As for the rest of your post, trying to turn it political again?
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        • Profile picture of the author Kurt
          Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

          TL I don't believe anyone is a climate change denier. Many don't believe in global warming, but that is different. Many don't believe man is responsible at all for global warming, but that is also different.
          As for the rest of your post, trying to turn it political again?

          TL turning this thread political? Seriously? I'd take another look at the order of the posts.

          TL posted a scientific study, which some people can't accept. So, instead of posting anything that's scientific to counter the research, they deny the research in the report by telling us how Al Gore makes money from green products. Helluva leap in logic, if you ask me.
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          • Profile picture of the author ThomM
            Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

            TL turning this thread political? Seriously? I'd take another look at the order of the posts.

            TL posted a scientific study, which some people can't accept. So, instead of posting anything that's scientific to counter the research, they deny the research in the report by telling us how Al Gore makes money from green products. Helluva leap in logic, if you ask me.
            Kurt did you get a chance to read his post before he deleted it?
            Other then the small part I quoted the rest was about politics.
            If it wasn't why did he delete it after I posted what I did?
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            • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
              Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

              Kurt did you get a chance to read his post before he deleted it?
              Other then the small part I quoted the rest was about politics.
              If it wasn't why did he delete it after I posted what I did?

              Sorry Thom, I did not delete anything.

              Someone else deleted my post along with Kurt's post that had a very brief mention of a congressman who had the unmitigated gall to apologize to BP after the admin helped them pledge 20 billion or so because of their spill in the Gulf.

              In my post, I didn't name names but I did say there's a bunch of dangerous, denying kooks up on the hill and they need to go - for many reasons - climate change being one among them.


              BTW...

              Lots of people want to deny the clear fact that one side on the hill has 98% of the climate change/global warming/it's man made deniers and they are preventing the nation from taking any meaningful action on this most critical issue.

              Also...

              Just because someone is going to make some money off the fix does not mean it shouldn't be fixed as a few people in here seem to be suggesting.

              Many people whether they like it or not, are just carrying water for big oil and big polluters like the Koch brothers.
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              • Profile picture of the author ThomM
                Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

                Sorry Thom, I did not delete anything.

                Someone else deleted my post along with Kurt's post that had a very brief mention of a congressman who had the unmitigated gall to apologize to BP after the admin helped them pledge 20 billion or so because of their spill in the Gulf.

                In my post, I didn't name names but I did say there's a bunch of dangerous, denying kooks up on the hill and they need to go - for many reasons - climate change being one among them.


                BTW...

                Lots of people want to deny the clear fact that one side on the hill has 98% of the climate change/global warming/it's man made deniers and they are preventing the nation from taking any meaningful action on this most critical issue.

                Also...

                Just because someone is going to make some money off the fix does not mean it shouldn't be fixed as a few people in here seem to be suggesting.

                Many people whether they like it or not, are just carrying water for big oil and big polluters like the Koch brothers.
                No problem TL. I just thought it was getting into a dangerous area.
                I did agree with what you where eluding to, by the way.
                Just with you recently coming off a ban, I didn't want to see you go on another vacation
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                • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
                  Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

                  No problem TL. I just thought it was getting into a dangerous area.
                  I did agree with what you where eluding to, by the way.
                  Just with you recently coming off a ban, I didn't want to see you go on another vacation

                  Sure Thom.
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                  • Profile picture of the author ThomM
                    Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

                    Sure Thom.
                    Yeah, sounded good though didn't it
                    I hope you at least got a laugh out of it
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              • Profile picture of the author garyv
                Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

                Many people whether they like it or not, are just carrying water for big oil and big polluters like the Koch brothers.

                And others whether they like it or not are carrying water for big tax money wasters and snake charming anti-carbon shysters like GIM.
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                • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
                  Originally Posted by garyv View Post

                  And others whether they like it or not are carrying water for big tax money wasters and snake charming anti-carbon shysters like GIM.


                  I guess you meant GM.

                  Where are these big tax wasters you talk about?

                  We've barely started to attack the problem.

                  Oh, I guess you mean the Solendra affair.


                  Are you also saying that there is no real problem and we should simply do nothing?


                  anyways..


                  You're way in the minority on this issue (maybe not in here but with people around the country who are paying attention on this issue)...


                  ... and it's simply because your wrong.


                  I guess you and your friends (like the Koch Bros) won't be happy until everyone looks like this....




                  (please scroll down)














































































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                  • Profile picture of the author garyv
                    Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

                    I guess you meant GM.

                    Where are these big tax wasters you talk about?
                    Nope - GIM - anyone educated on the subject knows of GIM the investment firm founded by Al Gore raking in snake oil money from gullible people like yourself. It's a shame. - And yes GM has their fingers in it too - but I was referring to "GIM". Like you and several others have said here before... just follow the money. It's not that hard to figure out.

                    And by the way - you can stop using the "big oil" subsidies argument - because according to the CBO - green energy firms make up 3/4 of the energy related tax subsidies in the US for 2013.

                    CBO: Most energy tax subsidies go toward green energy | The Daily Caller

                    ps - it also wouldn't be the first time the "majority" have been wrong on something. It happens quite frequently lately.
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                    • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
                      Originally Posted by garyv View Post

                      Nope - GIM - anyone educated on the subject knows of GIM the investment firm founded by Al Gore raking in snake oil money from gullible people like yourself. It's a shame. - And yes GM has their fingers in it too - but I was referring to "GIM". Like you and several others have said here before... just follow the money. It's not that hard to figure out.

                      And by the way - you can stop using the "big oil" subsidies argument - because according to the CBO - green energy firms make up 3/4 of the energy related tax subsidies in the US for 2013.

                      CBO: Most energy tax subsidies go toward green energy | The Daily Caller
                      No its not a big oil gets energy subsidies argument.

                      I'm saying you're fighting to protect one of the dirtiest - as far as the environment and most profitable industries on the planet that's helping to ruin the planet and has a lot to lose if/when we finally decide to seriously combat the problem.

                      Do you secretly own stock in the big oil companies??

                      Kurt has also cited some national security concerns for us continuing the stay on big oil.


                      But...

                      So to sum things up, are you saying there's no real problem and we just need to do nothing?


                      From everything I've heard from you on this subject I think that's what you're saying.


                      Am I right about this?
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                      • Profile picture of the author garyv
                        Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

                        No its not a big oil gets energy subsidies argument.

                        I'm saying you're fighting to protect one of the dirtiest - as far as the environment and most profitable industries on the planet that's helping to ruin the planet and has a lot to lose if/when we finally decide to seriously combat the problem.

                        Do you secretly own stock in the big oil companies??

                        Kurt has also cited some national security concerns for us continuing the stay on big oil.


                        But...

                        So to sum things up, are you saying there's no real problem and we just need to do nothing?


                        From everything I've heard from you on this subject I think that's what you're saying.


                        Am I right about this?
                        You don't really read the posts do you? - are you a post skimmer? That's extremely annoying.
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                        • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
                          Originally Posted by garyv View Post

                          You don't really read the posts do you? - are you a post skimmer? That's extremely annoying.

                          Thank you Gary!
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                          • Profile picture of the author garyv
                            Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

                            Thank you Gary!
                            I apologize - I should probably erase that post. You're not annoying TL. I actually enjoy your postings. They keep me on my toes.
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          • Profile picture of the author garyv
            Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

            TL posted a scientific study, which some people can't accept. So, instead of posting anything that's scientific to counter the research, they deny the research in the report by telling us how Al Gore makes money from green products. Helluva leap in logic, if you ask me.
            Not much of a leap when you consider that the same organization (the WMO) that did this research is the same organization that created the IPCC - which is the very same IPCC that works hand in hand w/ Al Gore to push their scare tactics on to gullible people - so that Al Gore's investment firm - GIM can make a fortune pushing over-hyped anti-carbon products. - It's not a leap at all really to anyone that cares to look it up.

            Blood And Gore: Making A Killing On Anti-Carbon Investment Hype - Forbes

            Current admin is getting ready to make a major push in this direction too. It's a red herring to be sure.
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Sigh.

    The Arctic ice is at a 15 year HIGH. Sea warming around the Arctic is usually because there are underwater volcanoes in that area.

    The Antarctic is an Archipiélago -- sitting on mantle plumes. When those get agitated we see some pics of "severe" warming down there. I'm not sure if ice is up or down there right now.

    Some people check the dates of satellite pics before believing what are being told about "warming".
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    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      Sigh.

      The Arctic ice is at a 15 year HIGH. Sea warming around the Arctic is usually because there are underwater volcanoes in that area.

      The Antarctic is an Archipiélago -- sitting on mantle plumes. When those get agitated we see some pics of "severe" warming down there. I'm not sure if ice is up or down there right now.

      Some people check the dates of satellite pics before believing what are being told about "warming".
      Sal; I'll bet you've been waiting a year to use " Archipiélago' in a cohesive sentence.

      To everyone; I am now going to look up what Sal said. Why? Because I could be wrong, and I want to learn.

      See how easy it was to say that?

      Go and do likewise...Minions of the Offline Universe.




      Added after I read a few ranked articles....
      OK, I just read three articles on real news websites. Not political, not religious, not with an agenda...real news websites.

      The Arctic ice took a sharp increase over last year, but the trend is still that it's melting.

      Here's one from the New York Times (NOT AN AFFILIATE LINK)
      http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/21/sc...-continue.html


      From a real Climatology website that has a pagerank of 7. (NOT AN AFFILIATE LINK)

      http://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/

      And here's an article from a science website for skeptics (NOT AN AFFILIATE LINK)

      http://www.skepticalscience.com/Has-...-recovered.htm

      All say the same thing. Dramatically more ice than last year, but a real downward trend over several years. Graphs and everything.

      Anyway, there you are.
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Claude -- I did science newsletters and 7 years of daily quake tracking on my site. I f***ing LOVE earth science. That's why I'm not biting a lot of the warming scam. I KNOW scientists. I've built enough rapor that they know full well when they say "off the record" that's where what they tell me stays. Keeping integrity with info has made me privy to some very interesting info.....especially in the field of Archaeology. I don't pretend to "know everything" in the fields - but I know the guys that do and I love learning from them.

    There's some very high test cl;climatologists at www.icecap.us These guys aren't gov funded and have the credentials that over-ride gov bullshyte.

    Nobody is denying that the earth is experiencing climate change. It always has - what would be really bizarre is if that stopped. Somehow humans forget that we aren't supposed to expect everything to be just comfy cozy just for us. We're nearing the climate of the 70's again very rapidly, and other than in a few places that the deforesting is doing real damage, have gained in crop yields over the last couple years. However - once we go past the 70's in cooling, you're going to some really bizarre excrement hitting the air conditioning. Trust me on that one.

    On a note aside from warming - back to archaeology. ....just to reference what the science community authorities are like:
    I have a friend who had a small expedition in WY. They discovered some gold artifacts that were just amazing. They took them to the "authorities" for validation. The authorities refused to acknowledge the artifacts. Reason? Because they were found deeper than it was "possible" for them to exist. Period. The date would have been older than the "community" is willing to accept that people using such artifacts could have been around. This is what you are dealing with when you deal with scientific "authority" -- and the more funding they are pulling from the gov, the worse it gets.

    Those artifacts, by the way, were melted down for the gold since there was nothing else that could have been done with them. Our scientific "authorities" are used to doing the world major injustices for their own positions and egos.


    ....................Predictions that 2013 would see an upsurge in solar activity and geomagnetic storms disrupting power grids and communications systems have proved to be a false alarm. Instead, the current peak in the solar cycle is the weakest for a century. Subdued solar activity has prompted controversial comparisons with the Maunder Minimum, which occurred between 1645 and 1715, when a prolonged absence of sunspots and other indicators of solar activity coincided with the coldest period in the last millennium. The comparisons have sparked a furious exchange of views between observers who believe the planet could be on the brink of another period of cooling, and scientists who insist there is no evidence that temperatures are about to fall. In all fairness, Russian scientists have warned over a decade ago that the Earth will enter a mini ice age period.

    The sun is acting bizarrely and scientists have no idea why. Solar activity is in gradual decline, a change from the norm which in the past triggered a 300-year-long mini ice age. The fall-off in sunspot activity still has the potential to affect our weather for the worse, Dr Elliott said. Research by Prof Mike Lockwood at the University of Reading showed how low solar activity could alter the position of the jet stream over the north Atlantic, causing severe cold during winter months. This was likely the cause of the very cold and snowy winters during 2009 and 2010, Dr Elliott said. “It all points to perhaps another little ice age,” he said. “It seems likely we are going to enter a period of very low solar activity and could mean we are in for very cold winters.”

    The Little Ice Age appears to have affected the climate powerfully. IPCC-leaning scientists, however, say that the Little Ice Age couldn’t have been caused by solar variability - not even solar variability combined with sky-darkening volcanic eruptions as the effects would have been too weak. A Swiss team of researchers now say that in fact the Little Ice Age most certainly could have been triggered by variations in the Sun.......
    IPCC scientists are noted for having "opposing views" from the rest of the scientific community. Wonder why. Does it make sense to you that C02 could cause extreme warming if volcanic action paired with low sun activity would not cause cooling? There's a complete lack of logic in the premises in the IPCC argument.

    If you want to worry about climate change................what you might want to start worrying about is why this sun cycle is so damned weak.
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  • Profile picture of the author garyv
    Following myob's lead I will also post failed predictions - (After you're done reading that, come back and see me - I have a good cure for baldness using **** berries... )

    Claim
    Jan. 1970: “By 1985, air pollution will have reduced the amount of sunlight reaching earth by one half.” Life Magazine, January 1970. Life Magazine also noted that some people disagree, “but scientists have solid experimental and historical evidence to support each of the predictions.”
    Data: Air quality has actually improved since 1970. Studies find that sunlight reaching the Earth fell by somewhere between 3 and 5 percent over the period in question.

    Claim April 1970: “If present trends continue, the world will be … eleven degrees colder by the year 2000. This is about twice what it would take to put us in an ice age.”Kenneth E.F. Watt, in Earth Day, 1970.
    Data: According to NASA, global temperature has increased by about 1 degree Fahrenheit since 1970.

    Claim 1972: “Artic specialist Bernt Balchen says a general warming trend over the North Pole is melting the polar ice cap and may produce an ice-free Arctic Ocean by the year 2000.” Christian Science Monitor, June 8, 1972.

    Claim 1989: “Using computer models, researchers concluded that global warming would raise average annual temperatures nationwide two degrees by 2010.” Associated Press, May 15, 1989.
    Data: According to NASA, global temperature has increased by about 0.7 degrees Fahrenheit since 1989. And U.S. temperature has increased even less over the same period.

    I could keep going - I'm only up to 1989 - but you get the picture.
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  • Profile picture of the author ConfusedJ
    Climate change alarmists have a history of badly missed predictions, almost to the point of being a parody, not to mention the shadiness revealed in the Climategate scandal.

    I tend to side with the skeptics on this one. Where there's smoke, there's usually fire, and when it comes to climate change being a power-and-money-motivated political hoax, there's a ton of smoke.
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  • Profile picture of the author MikeTucker
    Exactly! Some of them were wrong, and some of them were liars,
    so the entire body of scientific evidence should be completely dismissed.
    They are all doing it all for monetary gain.

    Instead, we should trust the people who say that nothing is really wrong
    and it's all being blown out of proportion. They have nothing to gain
    by keeping the status quo.

    :rolleyes:
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    • Profile picture of the author ConfusedJ
      Originally Posted by MikeTucker View Post

      Exactly! Some of them were wrong, and some of them were liars,
      so the entire body of scientific evidence should be completely dismissed.
      They are all doing it all for monetary gain.

      Instead, we should trust the people who say that nothing is really wrong
      and it's all being blown out of proportion. They have nothing to gain
      by keeping the status quo.

      :rolleyes:
      No need to rage, friend. Emotions reveal bias, which has no place in science.

      Anyway, when the missed predictions and revealed fraud greatly outnumbers the number of verified predictions, you've got a serious issue on hand. I'd argue we reached that point with the whole global warming/cooling/climate change mess long ago,

      For those of you who have scientific minds and enjoy skeptical thinking, I highly recommend Watts Up with That. It's a world-famous blog, so I'm sure most of you know of it already. For those who didn't: You're welcome.
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