Hospital worker infects 46 people with hepatitis C. Or why I favor the death penalty.

10 years ago

This type of behavior is unacceptable. His use of substances in no way excuses his horrible actions.

Make you wonder how he infected all of these people? There are very few ways this could be done "by accident"......

Were was the vetting process when this guy was hired?

He should have been in jail for the prior offenses and NEVER allowed to be near a patient or anyone that he could potentially infect.

Sad case indeed.

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seasoned

10 years ago

Typhoid mary did FAR less, and SHE became WORLD FAMOUS! Typhoid Mary - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

SHE only infected about 50 people and killed 3. HEY, according to wikipedia, SHE got almost 30 years TOO! You COULD argue that the numbers were likely LOW, but HEP C is even LESS likely to be diagnosed today, so HIS numbers probably cover a lower percentage of the real damage he did.

It IS interesting! THIS is why medical licenses are SUPPOSED to exist. If there is problem, it is supposed to be PULLED or LIMITED. ALAS, I doubt they are pulled, or even that they are checked.

Steve

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Joe Mobley

10 years ago

Apparently, I'm missing something.

Joe Mobley

Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill

If you want him killed, kill him yourself, Joe. I don't much care for people being killed in my name.

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Hogre 10 years ago

Originally Posted by Joe Mobley

Apparently, I'm missing something.

Joe Mobley

Um,I believe he meant "in the name of the people".
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Cool Hand Luke

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill

If you want him killed, kill him yourself, Joe. I don't much care for people being killed in my name.

Ken, I'm baffled as to how you somehow made this thread about killing "in your name"... or is that a really dark Hep C joke?

@Joe- I second your feelings. The guy deserves to be put down quickly.

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Kay King

10 years ago

He had moved from job to job despite being fired at least four times over allegations of drug use and theft.

It's a weakness in the medical community - and in other professions as well - that needs to change.

Fearing lawsuits from patients, hospitals will fire people for cause and not make the "cause" known to the public....or to the next employer. it's been a concern for years and there have been several cases where people could have been saved had the facts about an employee been fully disclosed to the new employer.

Make you wonder how he infected all of these people?

No accident involved from what I heard - he added a bit of his own blood to bags of saline solution.

Sicko.

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seasoned

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

It's a weakness in the medical community - and in other professions as well - that needs to change.

Fearing lawsuits from patients, hospitals will fire people for cause and not make the "cause" known to the public....or to the next employer. it's been a concern for years and there have been several cases where people could have been saved had the facts about an employee been fully disclosed to the new employer.

No accident involved from what I heard - he added a bit of his own blood to bags of saline solution.

Sicko.

The wrong blood type injected into a person could be disastrous! There could be a reaction to a foreign body,a clot, etc... Anyway, improperly breaking a seal on such a product ALONE should be grounds for swift action. Putting such a foreign body there MORE so! WHO CARES that he had hep C. I don't care if he were the healthiest person on the planet. He STILL should have had his license yanked, and been run through the courts,

Steve

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Kay King

10 years ago

Steve - if he's trying to give people a disease, I doubt he's worried about blood type.

I'm honestly tired of hearing what family/emotional/mental issues these people have when they commit crimes against others. Some people aren't worth the space they occupy in life. I think this person's "end" would come under the heading of good riddance to bad rubbish.

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Joe Mobley 10 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

Some people aren't worth the space they occupy in life. I think this person's "end" would come under the heading of good riddance to bad rubbish.

Some people aren't worth the space they occupy! Or the lives they take. Or the damage they do or have done.

Joe Mobley
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seasoned

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

Steve - if he's trying to give people a disease, I doubt he's worried about blood type.

I'm honestly tired of hearing what family/emotional/mental issues these people have when they commit crimes against others. Some people aren't worth the space they occupy in life. I think this person's "end" would come under the heading of good riddance to bad rubbish.

I was saying that even if he had NO disease.... In other words, NO EXCUSE!

As for the rest? I AGREE!

Steve

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Cool Hand Luke

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill

I'm baffled as to how anyone possibly cannot get the fact that when the government kills someone it's in your name, my name and the name of every citizen.

So, if you want to kill him, kill him yourself. Don't candy-ass around and wait for the government to do it.

I don't think the government should have the power to kill anyone.

Am I clear now?

So by your logic all government or judicial action is done "in your name"? That is not only incredibly narcissistic, it's ridiculously selfish. Your individual feelings on a matter don't dictate how the rest of the 265 million of us in this society have to live. Get over yourself.

No point in going on though, judging by your half-dozen angry posts ITT, you're clearly upset.

For the record though, I would gladly kill the guy and it has NOTHING to do with your name. :rolleyes:

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Hogre 10 years ago

Originally Posted by Cool Hand Luke

For the record though, I would gladly kill the guy and it has NOTHING to do with your name. :rolleyes:

Now it looks like you'd actually enjoy this experience.
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- Joe Mobley 10 years ago
  
  I would! If I was his hangman, I would be verbally screwing with him until I pulled the handle.
  
  Joe Mobley
  
  Originally Posted by Hogre
  
  Now it looks like you'd actually enjoy this experience.
  
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- Cool Hand Luke 10 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Hogre
  
  Now it looks like you'd actually enjoy this experience.
  
  :rolleyes: Only to you.
  
  I'd do it for the same reason I pay my bills and visit the dentist regularly; not because it's enjoyable, but because it's NECESSARY.
  
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HeySal

10 years ago

Ken was making a commentary against the death penalty. Executing a prisoner is done in "the name of the people". (Gov - by, of, for the people, etc)

That's okay Ken. Someone give me a gun and a President's pardon for committing the crime and I'll wax the ******* myself.

I'm sorry. " My life sucks", "I'm so deranged", and "I was stoned" -- none of it - absolutely none of that shyte exonerates someone from purposely rendering another person ill for life or mortally infected. To make a hobby of mass infliction is not the act of a human.

We have 7 billion people competing for resources that are growing scarce. We need to get this kind of sick crud out of the bloodlines - out of the resource pool. People who are of a physical harm and danger to others need to get off the planet. If we got rid of all this type of walking putrification, the rest of us would probably have a nice planet to take care of.

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Hogre 10 years ago

Originally Posted by HeySal

Someone give me a gun

I thought you already had one!
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- HeySal 10 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Hogre
  
  I thought you already had one!
  
  Do I?
  
  If I do - do you think I would tell billions of people on the net that I'm armed?
  If I don't - do you think I would tell billions of people on the net that I'm not armed?
  
  :rolleyes:
  
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Christopher Fox

10 years ago

Originally Posted by HeySal

Ken was making a commentary against the death penalty. Executing a prisoner is done in "the name of the people". (Gov - by, of, for the people, etc)

That's okay Ken. Someone give me a gun and a President's pardon for committing the crime and I'll wax the ******* myself.

Jimeny Christmas. We a bunch of 14-18 year old boys here?

Sal, whomever you are, I seriously doubt you could actually execute somebody.

I am not a mind reader and do not know Ken's thoughts and what he meant, but the thread title gave me a reaction similar to what you and I assume Ken's position to be.

No thanks, don't murder and execute in my name, either.

Hey, Hey Sal, there are many 16 year old boys and girls in this country that have killed somebody with their motor vehicles. Texting, driving drunk, etc. They were warned, they knew they were risking people's lives by texting and driving, but they didn't care and people died.

Go get yer gun and a bucket 'o lead Sal, you gots yerself sum killin' to do. Get at it.

Sorry, but statements like yours make me laugh. You are all talk. It is a good thing I believe you to be all talk here, though - it makes you a better human being in my eyes.

It's real easy (and arrogant) to state you have the power to decide who lives and dies.

I used to be a proponent of Capital Punishment, but, at 41, I have outgrown such notions - that I have the right to decide who lives and dies, revenge, etc.

I guarantee you Sal, were it you who had to be the executioner, to be someone that kills somebody, your thoughts on the death penalty would change. You don't strike me as an assassin, despite your teenage boy talk ...

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HeySal

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Christopher Fox

Jimeny Christmas. We a bunch of 14-18 year old boys here?

Sal, whomever you are, I seriously doubt you could actually execute somebody.

I am not a mind reader and do not know Ken's thoughts and what he meant, but the thread title gave me a reaction similar to what you and I assume Ken's position to be.

No thanks, don't murder and execute in my name, either.

Hey, Hey Sal, there are many 16 year old boys and girls in this country that have killed somebody with their motor vehicles. Texting, driving drunk, etc. They were warned, they knew they were risking people's lives by texting and driving, but they didn't care and people died.

Go get yer gun and a bucket 'o lead Sal, you gots yerself sum killin' to do. Get at it.

Sorry, but statements like yours make me laugh. You are all talk. It is a good thing I believe you to be all talk here, though - it makes you a better human being in my eyes.

It's real easy (and arrogant) to state you have the power to decide who lives and dies.

I used to be a proponent of Capital Punishment, but, at 41, I have outgrown such notions - that I have the right to decide who lives and dies, revenge, etc.

I guarantee you Sal, were it you who had to be the executioner, to be someone that kills somebody, your thoughts on the death penalty would change. You don't strike me as an assassin, despite your teenage boy talk ...

Because I'd have no problem putting down someone that was doing what this man did - mortally infecting people on a serial level, you think I'm all for downing a kid who made a mistake in a car? Really. And I'm supposed to figure the rest of your thinking is well ordered? Killing someone for making a mistake is murder. Killing a serial killer is social defense. I would have no problems pulling the trigger on a human in certain circumstances. That doesn't mean I would just snuff people for the fun of it. Get a grip.

Maybe you are the type that thinks that putting someone in a cage for the rest of their life is some sort of mercy. I do not. I find that much more sick and twisted than putting someone down if you know if they are ever let loose again they are going to kill someone else.

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HeySal

10 years ago

Some people are much too soft about anyone being in human form being actually human. When people murder, other than for self defense, they defy the logic of being human. We are born social - at least tribal, beings. A society cannot survive when it feeds on itself. When humans murder for pleasure they are defying the laws of the physics of normal human brain function....they aren't REALLY human anymore. They become a threat to their own species.

It's a sad fact, but it is the truth. IF that illness is biological, the last thing you need is the creature rooting around reproducing. If it's socially ingrained, it's more often than not, irreversible damage that can be replicated in anyone he comes in contact long enough to reach mentally. There is NO way to make someone this dysfunctional safe to be around. If it were a dog, you'd have no problem shooting it. But it looks like you, so it's hard to comprehend the complete depth of the sickness.

There comes a time that the damage just becomes too severe and there is no saving that person. If you have to keep them in a cage for 40 years because they are a danger to anyone they get near, then it's time to put them down. Could YOU live in a cage for 40 years?

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seasoned

10 years ago

Originally Posted by HeySal

Some people are much to soft about anyone being in human form being actually human. When people murder, other than for self defense, they defy the logic of being human. We are born social - at least tribal, beings. A society cannot survive when it feeds on itself. When humans murder for pleasure they are defying the laws of the physics of normal human brain function....they aren't REALLY human anymore. They become a threat to their own species.

It's a sad fact, but it is the truth. IF that illness is biological, the last thing you need is the creature rooting around reproducing. If it's socially ingrained, it's more often than not, irreversible damage that can be replicated in anyone he comes in contact long enough to reach mentally. There is NO way to make someone this dysfunctional safe to be around. If it were a dog, you'd have no problem shooting it. But it looks like you, so it's hard to comprehend the complete depth of the sickness.

There comes a time that the damage just becomes too severe and there is no saving that person. If you have to keep them in a cage for 40 years because they are a danger to anyone they get near, then it's time to put them down. Could YOU live in a cage for 40 years?

WELL SAID!

Steve

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Hogre

10 years ago

Originally Posted by HeySal

That's okay Ken. Someone give me a gun and a President's pardon for committing the crime and I'll wax the ******* myself.

Originally Posted by HeySal

Some people are much too soft about anyone being in human form being actually human. When people murder, other than for self defense, they defy the logic of being human.

I'm confused here.Help me out.

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yukon

Banned 10 years ago

This thread went a little mental, lol.

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Patrician

10 years ago

I still see all punitive actions as protecting society. Not retribution. Not 'convenience'.

In this case it 'kills' me to hear the pleas for leniency behind his drug and alcohol abuse. Whaaat? Then let's excuse all the sick addicts for their actions that they never would have taken if they were not addicted to substance abuse - and didn't infect anybody with a terminal illness to boot.

Man, justice is soooo blind sometimes.

This guy cannot be allowed back on the streets - particularly since we see the massive breach in security in the medical field that allowed him to be a serial offender.

off with his head.

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alistair

10 years ago

I personally don't believe in the death penalty and I'm glad we no longer have it in the UK, but if somebody was to murder one of my family then I feel I would like to repay them in kind. Fortunately I haven't been in this situation and hopefully never will, and I may feel different if it did happen, but I'm sure if I thought they deserved it then I'd handle it myself.

I remember back in the early 90's in the town I lived, a kid being run over and killed by a blind in one eye lorry driver who was either banned from driving or not legally allowed to drive as he was blind in one eye. Basically he didn't see the boy and ran him over and killed him on a bend and didn't stop. When he was caught and it went to court he was laughing and gesturing at the boys father.

To cut a long story short, the boys father went looking for the driver one day and shot the him with a shotgun (didn't kill him) but then he himself ended up being done for attempted murder or whatever the charges were and basically when he went to court the jury found him innocent of everything. I think this was because the jury felt the father was justified in shooting the lorry driver even if technically it was a crime and he should have gone down. Sometimes people do get what they deserve.

If anybody's interested here's a link to the story - http://sixthformlaw.info/01_modules/...ephen_owen.htm

Just one more thought, when I was a teenager I used to drink in one pub a lot where this lorry driver lived and remember one evening he turned up and was treated like a hero by the doormen and some of the drinkers just because he was a bit of a villain who'd been shot. I thought they were pretty weak individuals who felt they had to "show respect" to a thug by kissing his rather chunky posterior instead of telling him he wasn't welcome which is what should have happened.

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LarryC

10 years ago

This is a good example of why I would never voluntarily spend time in a hospital. Granted, this is an extreme case, but it's quite common for people to pick up illnesses in hospitals for various reasons.

As for the death penalty, I understand what Ken is saying about not killing in my name. On the other hand, if a relative of one of the victims decided to kill this guy, I'd also tend to be quite forgiving of him/her.

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Kay King

10 years ago

I don't understand the level of hatred in this thread. I have no use for this man or sympathy - but he's imprisoned for the rest of his life or close to it.

He's done making people sick - but others out there could be doing the same. It's time to put patient rights over employee rights when it comes to disclosing reasons for termination or resignation of an employee moving from one health system to another.

We are a highly litigious society - a perceived wrong or disservice is met with a lawsuit seeking compensation. Juries are often generous to those filing medical malpractice suits - hospitals are struggling to avoid those lawsuits....and employees like this are the result.

We have laws that protect employee privacy to the point where disclosing a reason for firing someone can lead to more lawsuits. That needs to change, too.

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Joe Mobley

10 years ago

Dang-it Kay, I can't even disagree with you for a whole day!

Are you sure that, in a previous life, you weren't my ex-wife? :rolleyes:

Joe Mobley

Originally Posted by Kay King

I don't understand the level of hatred in this thread. I have no use for this man or sympathy - but he's imprisoned for the rest of his life or close to it.

He's done making people sick - but others out there could be doing the same. It's time to put patient rights over employee rights when it comes to disclosing reasons for termination or resignation of an employee moving from one health system to another.

We are a highly litigious society - a perceived wrong or disservice is met with a lawsuit seeking compensation. Juries are often generous to those filing medical malpractice suits - hospitals are struggling to avoid those lawsuits....and employees like this are the result.

We have laws that protect employee privacy to the point where disclosing a reason for firing someone can lead to more lawsuits. That needs to change, too.

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Kay King 10 years ago

Are you sure that, in a previous life, you weren't my ex-wife?

Could have been - I've been that a few times in this life
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derekwong28

10 years ago

As a virologist, I found the whole affair quite interesting and perplexing, but this is what I believed actually happened.

1. As a cardiac technician, he would be involved in minor surgical procedures.
2. These procedures may require the use of strong pain killers such as pethidine or fetanyl, which are opiates that a mildly addictive.
3. Before the procedure, the theatre nurse would fill up syringes with the required drugs e.g. pethidine
4. He then took one of the syringes with pethidine and injected himself, let's say with 2 ml out of a 10 ml syringe. He then makes up the lost volume back up to 10 ml with 2 ml of saline.
5. The theatre then takes the tempered syringe and injects into the patient.

Now the risk of actually transmitting HCV through a contaminated syringe is actually not that high. 3% is the most quoted figure but I suspect it will be higher in this case because his blood is fresh. Most people infected with HCV do not develop any symptoms. Only a few develop symptoms of hepatitis, cirrhosis, or even cancer. Therefore there is no way that being infected by HCV is equivalent to a death sentence. Given the risks and the circumstances, there is no way that this can be treated as premeditated murder.

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Kay King 10 years ago

Excellent explanation Derek- and it makes sense. It puts it in a different light than the way it's being presented in the media (nothing new there).

I've seen the level to which drug addicts will fall to maintain their habit. A cousin was dying slowly of a painful cancer several years ago. She was being hospiced in her home with daily caregivers and was on high doses of morphine. When she continued to claim she was in agony from the pain a closer look revealed her teenage son was using the morphine and replacing it with saline.

He was kicked out by the family and I have no idea what happened to him. I wondered how he would be able to live with what he had done to his mother if he ever got clean and faced reality.

People seem to like to talk about and even brag about their drug experiences - but the damage of drug use is horrendous.
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LarryC

10 years ago

Originally Posted by derekwong28

As a virologist, I found the whole affair quite interesting and perplexing, but this is what I believed actually happened.

1. As a cardiac technician, he would be involved in minor surgical procedures.
2. These procedures may require the use of strong pain killers such as pethidine or fetanyl, which are opiates that a mildly addictive.
3. Before the procedure, the theatre nurse would fill up syringes with the required drugs e.g. pethidine
4. He then took one of the syringes with pethidine and injected himself, let's say with 2 ml out of a 10 ml syringe. He then makes up the lost volume back up to 10 ml with 2 ml of saline.
5. The theatre then takes the tempered syringe and injects into the patient.

Now the risk of actually transmitting HCV through a contaminated syringe is actually not that high. 3% is the most quoted figure but I suspect it will be higher in this case because his blood is fresh. Most people infected with HCV do not develop any symptoms. Only a few develop symptoms of hepatitis, cirrhosis, or even cancer. Therefore there is no way that being infected by HCV is equivalent to a death sentence. Given the risks and the circumstances, there is no way that this can be treated as premeditated murder.

If I'm following you here I don't agree with your conclusion at all. Are you saying that because there was only a 3% chance that people would get sick that this means it shouldn't be considered murder? That's still way too high a risk when someone is aware of what they are doing.

To use an analogy, suppose I load a gun that holds 6 bullets with only one bullet and fire into a crowd when I feel like it (I know the odds are different, but it's the same basic idea). Most of the time, I won't hit anybody but every so often I will. Does this make the crime less severe than if all the chambers in the gun were loaded? I suppose a lawyer could argue that, but I don't find it very persuasive.

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derekwong28

10 years ago

Originally Posted by LarryC

If I'm following you here I don't agree with your conclusion at all. Are you saying that because there was only a 3% chance that people would get sick that this means it shouldn't be considered murder? That's still way too high a risk when someone is aware of what they are doing.

The 3% is just the rate of infection, not the chance that the recipient will get ill. Although I suspect it was probably much higher in his case since fresh blood was involved.

Most people do not get sick from HCV and nor do they develop long term disease such as cirrhosis and cancer. There is also some form of treatment available that will help prevent them from getting long term disease. So you are talking about a lower chance that someone may get ill, and much lower that they may die from it. Being infected with HCV is not anywhere as dangerous as Hepatitis B. With hepatitis B, you have got a much higher chance of infection and a much higher chance of developing disease.

This is definitely severe criminal behavior. However, the hospitals involved were probably criminally negligent as well. That is if they tried to cover it up and did not recall the patients back for testing initially. As I mentioned earlier, there are drug treatments available. I feel that whoever tried to cover it up should be prosecuted as well.

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seasoned

10 years ago

Originally Posted by derekwong28

As a virologist, I found the whole affair quite interesting and perplexing, but this is what I believed actually happened.

1. As a cardiac technician, he would be involved in minor surgical procedures.
2. These procedures may require the use of strong pain killers such as pethidine or fetanyl, which are opiates that a mildly addictive.
3. Before the procedure, the theatre nurse would fill up syringes with the required drugs e.g. pethidine
4. He then took one of the syringes with pethidine and injected himself, let's say with 2 ml out of a 10 ml syringe. He then makes up the lost volume back up to 10 ml with 2 ml of saline.
5. The theatre then takes the tempered syringe and injects into the patient.

Now the risk of actually transmitting HCV through a contaminated syringe is actually not that high. 3% is the most quoted figure but I suspect it will be higher in this case because his blood is fresh. Most people infected with HCV do not develop any symptoms. Only a few develop symptoms of hepatitis, cirrhosis, or even cancer. Therefore there is no way that being infected by HCV is equivalent to a death sentence. Given the risks and the circumstances, there is no way that this can be treated as premeditated murder.

You may be 100% right about how it happened. OK, he STOLE medicine, risked peoples comfort, life style, and potentially LIFE. How would YOUR patients react if you told them that you would see to it that say 10%+ would have MORE pain, maybe 30% would get the disease, but only 3% of the total number would know, and only a small fraction would die, but ALL would pay for it?

1. Legally, it is a FELONY to be in such a case! Doctors actually have DEA clearance, and they are supposed to PREVENT such things!

2. They are strong FOR A REASON! Giving someone less defeats that! Diluting it defeats it MORE!

3. YEP!

4. Let's say this is right. WHY didn't he SPLURGE and pay like an extra $.60(EDUCATED ESTIMATE) for a syringe and wipe, to inject himself while reducing the near 100% chance of contamination to near ZERO!?!?!?!? Or HEY! YOU know as well as I do that many of these things come in FIXED doses in vials that are to be used once. He could take what is left over, after getting the PRESCRIBED amount!

5. YEP! A syringe that HE infected to save less than a dollar!

BTW typhoid mary was the SAME!!!!!!!!!! She infected at least 50 people. It was more likely HUNDREDS, but who is counting? At least 3 DIED! AGAIN, it was likely more, but who knows!?

What could SHE have done to prevent it? She could have reduced the illnesses to almost zero by WASHING HER HANDS and taking reasonable care! She could have worked at another type of job.

Steve

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derekwong28

10 years ago

Steve, I understand what you are saying but these are the sort of figures that the lawyers would use and argue in court. It seems that the prosecutors did not feel there was enough ground to press for murder or attempted murder charges.

Obviously, other countries may take a different view. China did execute a few people for contaminating Baby's milk with melamine a few years ago. They also executed the head of their equivalent of the FDA for taking bribes. You could argue that was more serious because some of the medicines he allowed to be licensed were very dangerous.

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HeySal

10 years ago

Originally Posted by derekwong28

Steve, I understand what you are saying but these are the sort of figures that the lawyers would use and argue in court. It seems that the prosecutors did not feel there was enough ground to press for murder or attempted murder charges.

Obviously, other countries may take a different view. China did execute a few people for contaminating Baby's milk with melamine a few years ago. They also executed the head of their equivalent of the FDA for taking bribes. You could argue that was more serious because some of the medicines he allowed to be licensed were very dangerous.

If the US would do the same to the officials on top levels of our FDA, we'd probably save around a quarter of a million lives a year.

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Sal
When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
Beyond the Path

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seasoned 10 years ago

Originally Posted by HeySal

If the US would do the same to the officials on top levels of our FDA, we'd probably save around a quarter of a million lives a year.

It would probably save more than THAT, and make people happier, healthier, and RICHER!

Steve
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Patrician

10 years ago

While it might not be pre-meditated 'murder' and Hep C may not usually be fatal, the fact remains it is incurable, and some do die from this terminal (permanent) liver disease

--->>>>> and he did purposely do this over and over again.

... and don't forget to note that he could have stolen the drugs without infecting the patients with his contaminated diseased blood - yet he chose to do this.

That is a monstrous freak and he should never ever see the light of day except through barbed wire.

Why do we have the vast majority of murders left unsolved? Why are most of the crimes commited by a small percent of the same perpetrators over and over? Because of this kind of 'bleeding heart' liberal crap that makes excuses for criminal behavior = so they re-offend. 'Hello isn't anybody going to punish me? Look what I can get away with!'

Originally Posted by derekwong28
As a virologist, I found the whole affair quite interesting and perplexing, but this is what I believed actually happened.

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Patricia Brucoli
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HeySal 10 years ago

Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill

There is no excuse for criminal behavior. Nor is there any excuse for state-sanctioned murder.

There is no excuse, but the criminal is a criminal, so the behavior continues until they are stopped. State-sanctioned murder is a scary thing - there are people at that level that are criminals and sociopaths and also abuse that power. Keeping someone in a cage their entire life is extreme cruelty - yet a sociopath cannot be allowed freedom because they will maim, torture, and kill if on the loose. So what exactly are we supposed to do? About the only solution that remains is to allow victims to avenge themselves - and here we go with a whole new list of problems with that one.

At one time there was the ability to just send criminals to another country (think the beginning the the USA when Europe was sending all its "undesirables" over here) or an island somewhere. That might still be feasible other than the fact it would have to be monitored 24/7 for escapees.
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Sal
When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
Beyond the Path
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Patrician 10 years ago

Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill

There is no excuse for criminal behavior. Nor is there any excuse for state-sanctioned murder.

Ken - I am not necessarily in favor of the death penalty at all - in fact I wouldn't be even a sliver unless there was irrefutable evidence.

To tell you the truth I think it is much more punishment to be locked up with cockroaches - human and otherwise in filthy stinking conditions than to be set free by death.

So what I am against is being lenient in giving people a slap on the wrist and then setting them free to do more harm.
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Patricia Brucoli
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Hospital worker infects 46 people with hepatitis C. Or why I favor the death penalty.

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