15 {{ upvoteCount | shortNum }}
15 {{ upvoteCount | shortNum }}

To freeze or not to freeze ... that is the question

by kenmichaels
12 replies
  • OFF TOPIC
    • |
I am talking cryogenics, would you consider it?

Just for a minute assume it actually worked ( and it might sooner then we think )

Would you do it? I think I would.
  • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
    You know, I don't think I'd like to. I've seen many things on a downward spiral in society since the sixties and I don't think I'd like to be unfrozen years later and see further degradation.

    But with even that aside, I have problems with some of today's technology that I'm afraid if I were frozen til sometime in the future, I'm afraid I'd be totally incompetent, lol!


    Terra
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8802767].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
    There are a lot of questions hidden within your question, Ken...

    - Would we live the same number of days either way?
    - Would we be "on ice" hoping for a cure for whatever ails us?
    - Would our money and investments be available when we are thawed? Would they still be worth anything?
    - Would our families be froze with us, or are they going to age and perhaps perish while we hibernate?
    - Can my dog be frozen with me so I have at least one friend on the other side?

    I could go on and on. I've got more questions than answers. If I had to decide based only on the information I now have, I'd say no.
    Signature

    Just when you think you've got it all figured out, someone changes the rules.

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8803010].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Frankly - I think I'd be more trustful of reincarnation than other humans freezing me alive.

    I'd be more likely to spend my time seeking an alternative cure to what is wrong with me than actually believing if someone froze me I'd wake up well centuries from now. We have to draw a sane line somewhere in accepting the fact we are mortal.
    Signature

    Sal
    When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
    Beyond the Path

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8803115].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author yukon
    Banned
    I watched a documentary on TV where a doctor transplanted the head of a monkey on another monkey, they showed one of the monkeys after the surgery, it was paralyzed from the neck down but it could still move it's eyes.

    [source]
    On March 14, 1970,[3] a group of scientists from Case Western Reserve University School of Medicine in Cleveland, Ohio,[4] led by Robert J. White, a neurosurgeon and a professor of neurological surgery who was inspired by the work of Vladimir Demikhov, performed a highly controversial operation to transplant the head of one monkey onto another's body. The procedure was a success to some extent, with the animal being able to smell, taste, hear, and see the world around it. The operation involved cauterizing arteries and veins carefully while the head was being severed to prevent hypovolemia. Because the nerves were left entirely intact, connecting the brain to a blood supply kept it chemically alive. The animal survived for some time after the operation, even at times attempting to bite some of the staff.
    There's videos on Youtube about the subject, I won't post them, it's kind of disturbing.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8803129].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      You guys are missing the fact that, so far, no large animal has ever survived the process when they are cryonically frozen and then revived. A few mice (I think) lived an hour or so before their cells degraded, and they died.

      Maybe sometime in the future they will perfect the process. Right now, it's a fantasy for people who have some money.

      The people frozen now? They probably aren't coming back. At best, their DNA will be preserved to create a duplicate person.

      But no test mammal has survived the process.

      Research goes on.

      Originally Posted by yukon View Post

      I watched a documentary on TV where a doctor transplanted the head of a monkey on another monkey, they showed one of the monkeys after the surgery, it was paralyzed from the neck down but it could still move it's eyes.
      Yeah, the process is available to sever a mammal head and attach it to a different body. Of course, the animal (or maybe eventually the person) is paralyzed from the neck down.

      The nerves may prove impossible, for some time, to connect. I wouldn't call it living.
      Signature
      One Call Closing book https://www.amazon.com/One-Call-Clos...=1527788418&sr

      What if they're not stars? What if they are holes poked in the top of a container so we can breath?
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8803271].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

        You guys are missing the fact that, so far, no large animal has ever survived the process when they are cryonically frozen and then revived.
        Um, Claude? ..."Just for a minute assume it actually worked..."
        Signature

        Just when you think you've got it all figured out, someone changes the rules.

        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8803333].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author yukon
        Banned
        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

        Yeah, the process is available to sever a mammal head and attach it to a different body. Of course, the animal (or maybe eventually the person) is paralyzed from the neck down.

        The nerves may prove impossible, for some time, to connect. I wouldn't call it living.
        The monkey was still alive, there's plenty of humans paralyzed from the neck down, they're still alive.

        The problems begin when people are paralyzed from the neck up.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8803355].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
          Originally Posted by yukon View Post

          The monkey was still alive, there's plenty of humans paralyzed from the neck down, they're still alive.

          The problems begin when people are paralyzed from the neck up.
          I listened to an air head newscaster talking about head transplants. And she said "Well, I certainly wouldn't want someone else's head on my body."

          My son and I laughed out loud.


          My new theory is that, if you see it in a cartoon, it's possible in real life, because cartoons are simply two dimensional representations in a three dimensional universe. String theory. God particle. Black holes. Einstein. Newton's spectral law of reverse electromagnetic retrogression. Look it up.


          Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post

          Um, Claude? ..."Just for a minute assume it actually worked..."
          Sorry, I forgot Ken's original question. If it worked? No. My family would be dead. I'd be completely out of touch with the newer world. No.
          Signature
          One Call Closing book https://www.amazon.com/One-Call-Clos...=1527788418&sr

          What if they're not stars? What if they are holes poked in the top of a container so we can breath?
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8803856].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
            Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

            My new theory is that, if you see it in a cartoon, it's possible in real life, because cartoons are simply two dimensional representations in a three dimensional universe.
            I like that theory. Can I have it? :confused:
            Signature

            Just when you think you've got it all figured out, someone changes the rules.

            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8803885].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author kenmichaels
            Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post

            There are a lot of questions hidden within your question, Ken...

            - Would we live the same number of days either way?
            - Would we be "on ice" hoping for a cure for whatever ails us?
            - Would our money and investments be available when we are thawed? Would they still be worth anything?
            - Would our families be froze with us, or are they going to age and perhaps perish while we hibernate?
            - Can my dog be frozen with me so I have at least one friend on the other side?

            I could go on and on. I've got more questions than answers. If I had to decide based only on the information I now have, I'd say no.
            I thought about it a lot and also had more questions ... I just figured why
            type out 500 questions. I will admit it never occurred to me to
            think about the money and investments angle.

            or the dog ...lol


            Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

            There are only a FEW creatures that have EVER survived freezing. NONE were mammals! They have been TRYING to figure out WHY, but still haven't. AND, they would have to freeze everything nearly at once. I don't think they have found a way to do THAT! They would also have to defrost you all at once. And what do they do THEN?

            There are FAR more questions then they would have you believe. Their RETEND feeble attempts are STILL expensive and require realestate, so they actually have a program where they freeze only your head. That is probably why futurama depicts so many current day celebrities as only being HEADS! In futurama, SOME heads spent some time on a robot, but mostly they are just AHEM.... "TALKING HEADS"!

            Steve
            They found a frog about 10 years ago that loses all brain function
            when it freezes ...when it thaws out it just gets up and starts doing its thing.

            They have been trying to figure out how for years. Last I heard they had it
            down to a chemical it produces and that its cells are more elastic then
            other animals.

            I figure if we can synthesis that chemical and perhaps do some stem cell
            reconstruction at the embryo level ... we might actually be able to do
            some type of stasis ... probably used for space travel ... not life extension.

            They also found another organism that shuts itself down completely
            when conditions are not optimum and reanimates 1000 of years later,
            when conditions are proper ... its called a water bear.

            NASA has been studying those. they found some in stasis from roman
            times ... gave them the right conditions and bammm

            pretty cool huh?



            Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

            Sorry, I forgot Ken's original question. If it worked? No. My family would be dead. I'd be completely out of touch with the newer world. No.
            Well now I know we are friends ....
            none of my real friends ever pay attention to me.
            Signature

            Selling Ain't for Sissies!
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8804640].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author seasoned
              Originally Posted by kenmichaels View Post

              They found a frog about 10 years ago that loses all brain function
              when it freezes ...when it thaws out it just gets up and starts doing its thing.

              They have been trying to figure out how for years. Last I heard they had it
              down to a chemical it produces and that its cells are more elastic then
              other animals.
              Yeah, it also has a kind of antifreeze in its blood as I recall. It WAS one of the animals I was thinking of when I said a FEW could do it. It is ALSO not a mammal. There are a LOT of differences between mammals and reptiles, and some involve the circulatory system, brain, and even the SKIN.

              I figure if we can synthesis that chemical and perhaps do some stem cell
              reconstruction at the embryo level ... we might actually be able to do
              some type of stasis ... probably used for space travel ... not life extension.

              They also found another organism that shuts itself down completely
              when conditions are not optimum and reanimates 1000 of years later,
              when conditions are proper ... its called a water bear.

              NASA has been studying those. they found some in stasis from roman
              times ... gave them the right conditions and bammm

              pretty cool huh?
              Yeah, but smaller animals/creatures, etc.... can be frozen faster and defrost faster. so the problems with timing are GREATLY reduced! It is like a hamburger. Ask a cook sometime. It is FAR easier to cook a thin burger well done, than it is a fat one. It is just simple physics. And a visible cut on the skin might not seem like much, but a FAR smaller cut in a cell or a nerve could DESTROY the viability of an organism. And you know what happens to glass if temperature changes aren't held within a certain range over the area. It CRACKS!

              Steve
              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8804688].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    There are only a FEW creatures that have EVER survived freezing. NONE were mammals! They have been TRYING to figure out WHY, but still haven't. AND, they would have to freeze everything nearly at once. I don't think they have found a way to do THAT! They would also have to defrost you all at once. And what do they do THEN?

    There are FAR more questions then they would have you believe. Their RETEND feeble attempts are STILL expensive and require realestate, so they actually have a program where they freeze only your head. That is probably why futurama depicts so many current day celebrities as only being HEADS! In futurama, SOME heads spent some time on a robot, but mostly they are just AHEM.... "TALKING HEADS"!

    Steve
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8803357].message }}

Trending Topics