America-Home of the ridiculous lawsuits

by KimW
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Sadly, I can believe all of these are true.

  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    Yeah, I WISH I could call you and them liars, but the US "legal" system is, ironically, a JOKE! Those lawsuits likely AREN'T the dumbest!

    I heard about the subway one on the news. Logically, the difference in locations, workers, and methods WOULD account for a difference in AREA and pontentially even MORE on a dimension, such as length. You could squeeze it more in a more humid area and undercook it, and make it longer, or do the opposite and make it shorter. Subway said they are based on AVERAGES! BTW it is my understanding that they COUNT everything else and THEY are cut to a SPECIFIC size, so bread is really the only wild card. Even then, the AREA is probably CLOSE!

    Here is ANOTHER shocker! Mcdonalds quarter pounders do NOT weigh a quarter pound. I believe when I was a kid, they said they DID! TODAY, in the fine print, they say BEFORE cooking! You see, the things I listed above affect hamburgers ALSO, as well as FAT CONTENT! You really CAN'T guarantee such things unless you undersell SO much that any deficit will STILL be MORE than you promised.

    And thieves should *****NEVER***** be able to sue the victim! If snake bites you, TOUGH! Even if you DIE, TOUGH!!!! If a dog bites you, TOUGH! EVEN if you have a limp FOREVER! If you fall through a skylight, TOUGH! If you are SHOT, and treatment is delayed because they have to do OTHER things, TOUGH! If you go bankrupt, and you want suppliers that helped your business to pay you what you owed them, TOUGH! YET, these examples I just gave were also done in the US!

    Did you see the latest farmers insurance commercial where a thief yells at his would be victim that he got cut by her roses, and demanded that she stop moving the spare key?

    SERIOUSLY, am I suffering some sleep disorder and merely IMAGINING a world that is so INSANE!?!?!?!?!? If so, I hope I wake up SOON!

    Steve
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    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
      Banned
      Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

      And thieves should *****NEVER***** be able to sue the victim! If snake bites you, TOUGH! Even if you DIE, TOUGH!!!! If a dog bites you, TOUGH! EVEN if you have a limp FOREVER! If you fall through a skylight, TOUGH! If you are SHOT, and treatment is delayed because they have to do OTHER things, TOUGH! If you go bankrupt, and you want suppliers that helped your business to pay you what you owed them, TOUGH! YET, these examples I just gave were also done in the US!
      The lawsuits depicted in the video are frivolous, however, I fail to see how lawsuits regarding a dog biting or killing someone, or a snake doing the same are frivolous. Are you talking about a thief trying to steal a dog or snake? If so, yeah, TOUGH, but if not, the dog and snake owner can be sued, but can also be arrested and charged with a crime (like the famous case of the dog that killed a woman trying to get into her apartment).
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      • Profile picture of the author seasoned
        Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

        The lawsuits depicted in the video are frivolous, however, I fail to see how lawsuits regarding a dog biting or killing someone, or a snake doing the same are frivolous. Are you talking about a thief trying to steal a dog or snake? If so, yeah, TOUGH, but if not, the dog and snake owner can be sued, but can also be arrested and charged with a crime (like the famous case of the dog that killed a woman trying to get into her apartment).
        There are LOTS of cases of CRIMINALS getting hurt or killed by dogs!

        There is ONE case where a guy LOVED dogs, and criminals would simply POISON them. It became WORTHLESS!!!!! He had his shop burglarized 3-4 times, as I recall. He went to a herpetologist, found out how to handle the snakes, etc... and got two POISONOUS snakes! Every night, he would set the snakes out in the shop. He had a sign warning trespassers of the snakes. Two criminals tried to rob him. As I recall, one DIED!!!!!!!

        If you CAN'T depend on the police, which would have to be there in a minute or two and likely NEVER will be, and don't want to be up all night guarding your store, etc..., WHAT can you do? Apparently for MILLENIA THIS is the way it has been done.

        One thing keeping thieves at bay is the risk/reward ratio. In the hollywood raid, they used the armor to drive risk down, and figured the reward would be upwards of 3/4 of a million. They figured it was worth it. If the reward were $1000, or they went in without any armor, do you think they would be so brazen?

        The courts have basically said that the targets should keep the risk LOW! If they want protection, they are to have limited access restrictions, and depend on the local law. If you try to reinforce the door, use a special lock and don't give certain parties the key, etc... you could be subject to a fine or worse. If you use a dog, I guess you could even end up in JAIL. It has gotten THAT crazy. Burglars may EVEN figure this into the risk/reward ratio. They get MULTIPLE chances to benefit, even if the victim has NOTHING!

        As for SELLING dogs and snakes? They would want you to prove that you kept them in cages. They would likely want the snakes devenomized. EVEN if you are selling them for research, etc... Next thing you know, they will want dogs to have their jaws wired shut.

        YEAH, I have been to places like petco, etc.... I don't expect to get bitten. I never have been. If I got bitten, as a potential customer, I would want recompense commensurate with the injury. That would range from a simple apology(If it were like a nibble) to maybe a hefty fine.(if I lost a leg). But if I stole from the shop and every animal attacked me, they should be held BLAMELESS!!!!!

        Steve
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        • Profile picture of the author Kay King
          It's another case of "can't get anything done"....

          House Committee Approves Bill on 'Frivolous' Lawsuits - The BLT: The Blog of Legal Times

          H.R.2655 - 113th Congress (2013-2014): Lawsuit Abuse Reduction Act of 2013 | Congress.gov | Library of Congress

          Senate majority and admin is against this bill - guess they are all lawyers?:p
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          • Profile picture of the author Kay King
            Here is ANOTHER shocker! Mcdonalds quarter pounders do NOT weigh a quarter pound. I believe when I was a kid, they said they DID! TODAY, in the fine print, they say BEFORE cooking!
            Steve - the only difference is a few years ago people were smart enough to KNOW they meant "before cooking". They didn't have to state it back then as the public was bright enough to understand weight is lost in the cooking process.

            I'm not sure some people today understand hamburger doesn't come from the cow fully cooked and ready to go. Some probably don't know hamburger is FROM a cow.
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            • Profile picture of the author seasoned
              Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

              Steve - the only difference is a few years ago people were smart enough to KNOW they meant "before cooking". They didn't have to state it back then as the public was bright enough to understand weight is lost in the cooking process.

              I'm not sure some people today understand hamburger doesn't come from the cow fully cooked and ready to go. Some probably don't know hamburger is FROM a cow.
              You're probably right. I know I have! But I said that as sort of tongue in cheek. Basically I am saying that there are LEGITIMATE reasons for the difference, and it affects OTHER things ALSO!

              EVEN if they cut the sub bread to 12" EXACTLY, by the time you got it home, it could be a bit smaller. Fresh bread IS always shrinking, after all, due to moisture loss. But HEY, I would be more concerned about nutritional value, and taste.

              Steve
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            • Profile picture of the author ThomM
              Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

              Steve - the only difference is a few years ago people were smart enough to KNOW they meant "before cooking". They didn't have to state it back then as the public was bright enough to understand weight is lost in the cooking process.

              I'm not sure some people today understand hamburger doesn't come from the cow fully cooked and ready to go. Some probably don't know hamburger is FROM a cow.
              Kay we're talking about McDonalds here. There's a good possibility the hamburger doesn't come from a cow
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              • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                Banned
                Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

                Kay we're talking about McDonalds here. There's a good possibility the hamburger doesn't come from a cow
                You are right about that

                Day 1 Happy Meal


                Day 126 Happy Meal
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                • Profile picture of the author HeySal
                  Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                  You are right about that

                  Day 1 Happy Meal


                  Day 126 Happy Meal
                  Well, that explains very nicely why they call it a "happy" meal. I'd be freaking ecstatic if I kept that well for that long.
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                  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
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                    Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

                    Well, that explains very nicely why they call it a "happy" meal. I'd be freaking ecstatic if I kept that well for that long.
                    I hear ya on that one ... :p
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          • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
            Originally Posted by Kay King View Post


            Stopping frivolous lawsuits is one thing but preventing everyday people from seeking legitimate recompense - especially from large corps is another.

            If some people had their way, they'd impose limits on the amount corps have to pay for negligence.

            I'm not a lawyer but with their clear anti non-wealthy person track record I can take a guess at who the sponsors of the bill are trying to protect.

            When Justice Alito was in the process of being confirmed Biden asked him if he had ever ruled in favor of the little guy and Alito just shook his head no.

            The bill is supposedly designed to aid in slowing down frivolous lawsuits using mandatory sanctions but...

            ...here's another view of what the proposed legislation will do to the legal system.

            Student Letter Opposing H.R. 2655, the Lawsuit Abuse Reduction Act of 2013 | centerjd.org

            Here's a article on what may be a better way of fixing the system.

            To reduce lawsuit abuse, use smart system design, not sanctions | Common Good

            And here's someone that's normally on your side of the issues but not on this one...

            http://communities.washingtontimes.c...s-war-liberty/
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Subway is now being sued for having an 11 inch 12 inch sub.

    And here's one for those f***ing idiot criminals to think about -- criminals being allowed to sue victims in court is one of the main reason home owners are aiming to kill when they point a gun at an intruder. It's a severe violation to break into someone's home, but to slap them in the face and spit on them in court, too - and to actually have courts that allow that shyte to go on.........well, find a cop in any town and they will tell you to shoot the intruder to kill and if they fall outside the house.....drag them in.

    But until Americans get off their asses and demand some real justice and constitutional law - we're going to have to deal with all the corporate clap-trap they wanna dish out at us.
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    • Profile picture of the author garyv
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      Subway is now being sued for having an 11 inch 12 inch sub.
      This could set a dangerous legal precedent for online dating...
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      • Profile picture of the author Rod Cortez
        Originally Posted by garyv View Post

        This could set a dangerous legal precedent for online dating...
        I never thought I could fit a whole mouthfull of coffee through my nose until I read that statement. LOL

        RoD
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    • Profile picture of the author whateverpedia
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      Subway is now being sued for having an 11 inch 12 inch sub.
      Actually that one shouldn't have to go to court.

      A company that delivers undersized or underweight products should be fined by the (equivalent of) the Department of Weights and Measures. Items like scales (for weighing) have to be inspected and passed regularly to ensure that if a consumer pays for a kilogram of bacon (mmmm, bacon), the consumer gets exactly a kilogram of bacon. Serious fines apply to those selling underweight or undersized products.

      If their sandwiches are only 11 inches long, Subway should be made to promote their products as being 11 inches not 12, or be fined.

      If the appropriate authorities were doing their job in the first place, scenarios like this would never have happened in the first place.
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      • Profile picture of the author seasoned
        Originally Posted by whateverpedia View Post

        Actually that one shouldn't have to go to court.

        A company that delivers undersized or underweight products should be fined by the (equivalent of) the Department of Weights and Measures. Items like scales (for weighing) have to be inspected and passed regularly to ensure that if a consumer pays for a kilogram of bacon (mmmm, bacon), the consumer gets exactly a kilogram of bacon. Serious fines apply to those selling underweight or undersized products.

        If their sandwiches are only 11 inches long, Subway should be made to promote their products as being 11 inches not 12, or be fined.

        If the appropriate authorities were doing their job in the first place, scenarios like this would never have happened in the first place.
        Well, there IS a department for that.... Weights and Measures But I have generally only seen them regulate public scales and scales for charging fees, and alcohol and gas. Even THERE, it is actually ILLEGAL to be accurate on gas, though they, of course, don't make that clear. If you buy a gallon of gas, you will NOT get a gallon of gas! It is illegal! You will get a gallon of a concoction that changes on a whim according to the state, area, time of year, etc... It is not even guaranteed to be usable as gas! SEVERAL times, for example, they wanted to add upwards of 15% ethanol even though many gas cars built prior to about 2002 can not handle that. Gaskets and the like can wear out, and it can apparently cause engine damage. In fact, many cars built around that time, that CAN handle it display that they are flex fuel vehicles. Flex-fuel Vehicles Basically all weights and measures checks is the accuracy of the dispensing mechanism, and maybe the amount of condensation.

        And look at boxes of whatever in the stores. They try to imply that they are the same size while having less product.

        Steve
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        • Profile picture of the author Kay King
          TL -

          History shows that the threat of mandatory sanctions forces attorneys to decline representation for fear of monetary loss.
          The arguments don't address the ridiculous lawsuits - but only the idea that lawyers and people filing suits might be held accountable - and face consequences - when they file stupid lawsuits that cost other people money to defend.

          This may not be the best bill - but it doesn't matter because this same type of bill has been proposed several time in the past few years. Law students are against it - lawyers are against it - and that's surprising?
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          • Profile picture of the author seasoned
            Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

            TL -



            The arguments don't address the ridiculous lawsuits - but only the idea that lawyers and people filing suits might be held accountable - and face consequences - when they file stupid lawsuits that cost other people money to defend.

            This may not be the best bill - but it doesn't matter because this same type of bill has been proposed several time in the past few years. Law students are against it - lawyers are against it - and that's surprising?
            I was in buffalo NY once at a VERY busy time! Apparently, there are only a few places in New York where you can take the bar, and Buffalo is one of the best, AND BUSIEST! The prospects didn't seem too bright and many apparently did NO research! I knew more about the bar than they did! And the room service people were remarking about chinese people taking the tests that didn't know any english, and about how they saw many AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN! And they could tell who was going to pass.

            BTW it is online on your OWN computer. SUPPOSEDLY, the test aborts if you leave the page, but you have to wonder! ALSO, there is a way to avoid the essay.

            So yeah, I think it is clear that most are in it ONLY for the money and power, and don't even care to do research for THEMSELVES!

            The problem with laws that make things TRULY equitable, fair, and peaceful is that people that must vote for them see them as a danger to their power. It is a case of the proverbial fox guarding the hen house!

            Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    HEYSAL,

    My favorite may ALWAYS be the robbers that tried to rob bank, and tried to kill perhaps dozens of people. The polic FINALLY figured things out and got the upper hand, and injured one of the robbers severely. They really had no idea HOW severely, and trying to find out would be idiotic and meaningless. ANOTHER was trying to kill them.

    In the end, they were SUED for not risking all of their lives, and the lives of the EMTs, to get the burglar to the hospital faster. BTW the weapons used were and ARE ILLEGAL!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2ZwIrIB1is

    Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author KimW
    Actually you will find that "before cooking" statement on a lot of products these days,not only in the fast food joint but your home as well.


    Kay, I don't want to guess at the percentage number but a very large number of representatives are indeed lawyers.
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by KimW View Post

      Actually you will find that "before cooking" statement on a lot of products these days,not only in the fast food joint but your home as well.


      Kay, I don't want to guess at the percentage number but a very large number of representatives are indeed lawyers.
      Most ARE lawyers, and most of the rest are somehow TIED to lawyers. There ARE a few that aren't so involved, but they can't do much. And DON'T FORGET! The government does NOT want real peace! REAL peace would mean there is no reason for them, and little to detract attention, or tax. The federal government was SUPPOSED to be to make sure the states didn't stray from the ideal too much, and keep the US in proper parity with the rest of the world. That was IT!!!!! The FCC was tasked to do that with communications. The FTC was tasked to do that with trade. The USDA was tasked to do that with agriculture, etc.... If disputes arose from it, the Supreme court was to arbitrate, and CONGRESS was to refine, etc... The vice president was given the power to break ties in the senate, and the president could veto laws from congress, but otherwise they were basically supposed to act as a representative and voice for the US.

      NOW, they are ALL playing BOTH sides of the street. It is almost like a lawyer in a divorce case who is a friend of the bride, and "arguing for the groom". They are supposed to settle disputes abroad, and between states, but they are working to incite domestic strife.

      Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
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  • Profile picture of the author Marvin Johnston
    Some of you may remember the McDonalds lawsuit where a woman got some hot coffee and spilled it on her... uh... uncomfortable place to be burned while she was driving (or any time for that matter.).

    I was on a jury (later chosen as jury foreman) after that incident in an unrelated case, and the judge brought up that case. Did we know McDonalds had been warned about the high temperature of the coffee being served... multiple times?

    I think his point was there were different ways of looking at an event.

    I must agree... that woman must have been major stupid to have been that careless to spill hot coffee while driving.

    The other minor detail not mentioned in the video (or I missed) is how many of those cases were appealed and overturned? But that part is not newsworthy.
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    • Profile picture of the author KimW
      [QUOTE=Marvin Johnston;8816614]Some of you may remember the McDonalds lawsuit where a woman got some hot coffee and spilled it on her... uh... uncomfortable place to be burned while she was driving (or any time for that matter.).

      I was on a jury (later chosen as jury foreman) after that incident in an unrelated case, and the judge brought up that case. Did we know McDonalds had been warned about the high temperature of the coffee being served... multiple times?

      I think his point was there were different ways of looking at an event.

      I must agree... that woman must have been major stupid to have been that careless to spill hot coffee while driving.

      The other minor detail not mentioned in the video (or I missed) is how many of those cases were appealed and overturned? But that part is not newsworthy.[/QUOTE]


      The major detail is that none of those suits should even have been allowed.
      :rolleyes:
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    • Profile picture of the author writeaway
      Originally Posted by Marvin Johnston View Post

      Some of you may remember the McDonalds lawsuit where a woman got some hot coffee and spilled it on her... uh... uncomfortable place to be burned while she was driving (or any time for that matter.).

      I was on a jury (later chosen as jury foreman) after that incident in an unrelated case, and the judge brought up that case. Did we know McDonalds had been warned about the high temperature of the coffee being served... multiple times?

      I think his point was there were different ways of looking at an event.

      I must agree... that woman must have been major stupid to have been that careless to spill hot coffee while driving.

      The other minor detail not mentioned in the video (or I missed) is how many of those cases were appealed and overturned? But that part is not newsworthy.
      What was dispositive in that HOT COFFEE case was the PRIOR NOTICE to McDonalds. They already had notice. People are too quick to blame the plaintiff. It's not as cut and dried as many people would like to believe. It's not about consumer stupidity.
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      • Profile picture of the author seasoned
        Originally Posted by writeaway View Post

        What was dispositive in that HOT COFFEE case was the PRIOR NOTICE to McDonalds. They already had notice. People are too quick to blame the plaintiff. It's not as cut and dried as many people would like to believe. It's not about consumer stupidity.
        People want hot coffee! They DEMAND it! At a fast food place, if anything, you might even want it to be a little hotter because it may be a while before they drink it. As i understand it, she treated it like luke warm water that was well sealed, and it was NON of those. If I were te judge, I may have threatened to send her to psychiatric counseling. If I believed in psychiatrists, I would feel that THAT could help her.

        If a person always plays with fire, and puts their hand over flames, do you REALLY judge in here favor for falling against a hot poker?

        Steve
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        • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
          Banned
          Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

          People want hot coffee! They DEMAND it! At a fast food place, if anything, you might even want it to be a little hotter because it may be a while before they drink it. As i understand it, she treated it like luke warm water that was well sealed, and it was NON of those. If I were te judge, I may have threatened to send her to psychiatric counseling. If I believed in psychiatrists, I would feel that THAT could help her.

          If a person always plays with fire, and puts their hand over flames, do you REALLY judge in here favor for falling against a hot poker?

          Steve
          I want my coffee drinkable and served at the standard temp, which is not 190 degrees. I have drank McDs coffee and found it to be way too hot, burning my lips, as in scalding, when I tried to actually sip it with my breakfast. I've never had a coffee spillage that required skin grafts and 8 days hospitalization before but then, I've never spilled McDonald's coffee on me.

          Any time you find yourself in an argument about frivolous lawsuits and tort reform, someone's probably going to bring up "that woman who sued McDonald's over the hot coffee and won four ba-jillion dollars in damages." The popular version of the story has a little something for everyone: a stalwart national company, the apparently absurd premise that someone would object to coffee being served hot, and a cash settlement that was large enough to be memorable.

          Although the particulars of the case have been repeated so often that it has begun to sound like an urban legend, there really was a "hot coffee lawsuit." How well do people remember the facts of the case that's often used as the epitome of out-of-control litigiousness? Let's take a look at 1994's Liebeck v. McDonald's Restaurants.

          The world's most infamous cup of coffee spilled on February 27, 1992 in Albuquerque, NM. Stella Liebeck, a 79-year-old grandmother, was a passenger in her grandson's car when they drove through at a McDonald's, and after she received her styrofoam cup of joe her grandson pulled the car forward and parked so Liebeck could mix in her cream and sugar.

          Liebeck braced the cup between her knees, but when she tried to pull off the cup's lid, the entire cup of coffee spilled into her lap. Although subsequent developments in the courtroom turned Liebeck and her case into objects of derision, it's worth noting that she actually suffered legitimate injuries from the accident. Liebeck's sweatpants absorbed the hot coffee and held it next to her skin, which helped lead to third degree burns on six percent of her body. Liebeck ended up spending eight days in the hospital and undergoing skin grafts to counter the effects of the burns.

          Of course, most people who use the Liebeck decision to make a point about tort reform don't do so to minimize the severity of Liebeck's injuries. They're blasting the apparent greed with which liability lawyers operate. It's also worth noting, though, Liebeck apparently didn't hear cash registers ringing immediately after she suffered the injuries. Liebeck had rung up around $11,000 in medical bills as a result of the accident, and she initially approached McDonald's asking for $20,000 to cover her medical bills, future medical expenses, and lost income.

          In a move McDonald's surely lived to regret, the restaurant countered with a lowball offer of $800. The restaurant apparently used the same sort of common-sense logic that most people applied to the case when they heard about it; that is, if you spill coffee into your own lap the only person liable for the accident is you.

          The please-go-away offer didn't sit too well with Liebeck and her legal counsel, and although they made several other attempts to settle the case out of court at prices as high as $300,000, McDonald's refused to blink. With no settlement in sight, attorney Reed Morgan filed a suit against McDonald's to ask for $100,000 in compensatory damages and more in punitive damages since McDonald's had been grossly negligent in selling Liebeck a "defectively manufactured" product. (Yes, the logic was that overheating coffee rendered the beverage defective and dangerous.)

          McDonald's asked for a summary dismissal of Liebeck case on the grounds that she was the actual cause of her injuries since she was the one who physically spilled the coffee. The trial judge rejected the motion, though, and told Liebeck and McDonald's to attend a mediation session in a last-ditch attempt to hammer out a settlement. The mediator advised McDonald's to settle for $225,000. McDonald's - you may see a pattern emerging here - again scoffed at opening its coffers. Instead, the case went before a jury.

          It's safe to say that the impaneled citizens probably weren't expecting to hear hours of testimony about the temperature of coffee when they got their jury duty notices in the mail. That's what they heard, though. Over the course of the trial, Liebeck's team established that McDonald's had a policy of serving its coffee at temperatures ranging from 180 to 190 degrees Fahrenheit to enhance flavor and ensure that to-go cups were still warm when they reached their destinations. (The coffee that you brew at home probably comes out at around 140 degrees, so there's a significant difference.) Moreover, experts testified that skin can burn quickly when contacted by liquids at these temperatures.

          Read the full text here: The Real Details of the Hot Coffee Lawsuit | Mental Floss
          --brought to you by mental_floss!
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          • Profile picture of the author seasoned
            Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

            I want my coffee drinkable and served at the standard temp, which is not 190 degrees. I have drank McDs coffee and found it to be way too hot, burning my lips, as in scalding, when I tried to actually sip it with my breakfast. I've never had a coffee spillage that required skin grafts and 8 days hospitalization before but then, I've never spilled McDonald's coffee on me.
            All I can say is what I have heard! BTW you quoted an interesting point....

            Liebeck braced the cup between her knees, but when she tried to pull off the cup's lid, the entire cup of coffee spilled into her lap. Although subsequent developments in the courtroom turned Liebeck and her case into objects of derision, it's worth noting that she actually suffered legitimate injuries from the accident. Liebeck's sweatpants absorbed the hot coffee and held it next to her skin, which helped lead to third degree burns on six percent of her body. Liebeck ended up spending eight days in the hospital and undergoing skin grafts to counter the effects of the burns.
            Did she suffer injuries from "the accident". YEP! Was THAT really mcdonalds fault? NOPE! Was she ASKING for trouble? ******OH YEAH******!

            WHO does that with a hot cup, ESPECIALLY with a hot cup of LIQUID!?!?!?!?

            BTW BE HAPPY! Water can reach ~212f degrees! so she COULD have gotten it a good 20 degrees HOTTER!

            Frankly, I never understood the desire for SUCH hot things, or to transport them this way. I am still waiting for a stewardess to pour hot coffee on me that I, and perhaps NOBODY IN THE ROW, asked for. Now THAT would be a lawsuit! They can hardly stand on the plane, and they are offering hot coffee to passengers sitting at the window or in the middle of a row of 5 seats!?!?!?!? Frankly, I don't even care if it is hot. Maybe I am working that day, or taking a day trip, and that spill affects me a lot adversely.

            Steve
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            • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
              Banned
              Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

              All I can say is what I have heard! BTW you quoted an interesting point....
              ...

              BTW BE HAPPY! Water can reach ~212f degrees! so she COULD have gotten it a good 20 degrees HOTTER!

              Steve
              The average serving temp of coffee from a home brewer is 140. As I said, I have had McD's coffee and consider it hazardous and unsafe. Go ahead and blame the victim. That's what everyone does. Who puts cream and sugar in their coffee in a car or drinks coffee in a car? Nearly everyone I know does that. The car was stopped so that she could do that.

              Good reason in my book to not buy at McD's.... one of many. Their never aging food, pictured in the photo I posted above is yet another.
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              • Profile picture of the author seasoned
                Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                The average serving temp of coffee from a home brewer is 140. As I said, I have had McD's coffee and consider it hazardous and unsafe. Go ahead and blame the victim. That's what everyone does. Who puts cream and sugar in their coffee in a car or drinks coffee in a car? Nearly everyone I know does that. The car was stopped so that she could do that.

                Good reason in my book to not buy at McD's.... one of many. Their never aging food, pictured in the photo I posted above is yet another.
                How many do that to a cup between their legs? ButEY. I DON'T like mcdonalds!

                Steve
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                • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                  Banned
                  Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

                  How many do that to a cup between their legs? ButEY. I DON'T like mcdonalds!

                  Steve
                  Oh come on. You're using your hands to open sugar and creamers to put in your coffee that is in a carryout cup for a reason ... so you can drink it elsewhere. Where the hell else would you hold the cup? Between your toes?

                  Like I said, it's an easy problem to fix. Lower the serving temp to a level that will do less damage if spilled. Would you also blame a child sitting at the table in McD's who spills his/her parents coffee accidentally and gets 3rd degree burns over much of their body and requires skin grafts and hospitalization? If so, you haven't been out with children much. Children spill stuff.
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                  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
                    Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                    Oh come on. You're using your hands to open sugar and creamers to put in your coffee that is in a carryout cup for a reason ... so you can drink it elsewhere. Where the hell else would you hold the cup? Between your toes?

                    Like I said, it's an easy problem to fix. Lower the serving temp to a level that will do less damage if spilled. Would you also blame a child sitting at the table in McD's who spills his/her parents coffee accidentally and gets 3rd degree burns over much of their body and requires skin grafts and hospitalization? If so, you haven't been out with children much. Children spill stuff.
                    Different story, but parents SHOULD be more careful.

                    Steve
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                  • Profile picture of the author ThomM
                    Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                    Oh come on. You're using your hands to open sugar and creamers to put in your coffee that is in a carryout cup for a reason ... so you can drink it elsewhere. Where the hell else would you hold the cup? Between your toes?

                    Like I said, it's an easy problem to fix. Lower the serving temp to a level that will do less damage if spilled. Would you also blame a child sitting at the table in McD's who spills his/her parents coffee accidentally and gets 3rd degree burns over much of their body and requires skin grafts and hospitalization? If so, you haven't been out with children much. Children spill stuff.
                    How about in a cup holder?
                    I always drink coffee in my vehicles, but only if I have a cup holder. Just seems like common sense to me.
                    I do agree that McD's coffee is served to hot, but anyone who holds a hot cup of coffee between their legs isn't very smart and really lacking in common sense.
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                    • Profile picture of the author Midnight Oil
                      Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

                      How about in a cup holder?
                      Too much trouble. They'd have to clean out all the spare change, Tic-Tacs and old McDonald's receipts first.
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                  • Profile picture of the author Midnight Oil
                    Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                    Like I said, it's an easy problem to fix. Lower the serving temp to a level that will do less damage if spilled.
                    Hot Water Causes Third Degree Burns...
                    ...in 1 second at 156º
                    ...in 2 seconds at 149º
                    ...in 5 seconds at 140º

                    The Burn Foundation - www.burnfoundation.org - Scald Burns
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              • Profile picture of the author Kay King
                Why is anyone still arguing a 20 year old lawsuit?

                In the end the woman got about $3 million for her troubles.

                Most customers would have held the paper/styrofoam cup in one hand and opened it with the other hand. At 79, maybe the only way she could open the cup is gripping it between her knees....should a drive through restaurant anticipate that?

                Fast forward to October 2013 - and another lawsuit (been quite a few in the past 20 years) from another 70+ person claiming coffee spilled in her lap. She's suing for all sorts of damages but says she still buys coffee from McDonalds.

                Maybe they need special cups for senior citizens? Or cups that can only be opened if they are placed on a solid surface? Or a seal that will not break above a certain temperature?

                I wonder if McDonald's offered two temperatures of coffee - hot and extra hot - which one would sell the most? I'm betting it would be the "extra hot".
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                • Profile picture of the author Midnight Oil
                  Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                  I wonder if McDonald's offered two temperatures of coffee - hot and extra hot - which one would sell the most? I'm betting it would be the "extra hot".
                  If I'm not mistaken, McDonald's actually did drop their coffee temperature by 20 degrees or so after the lawsuit. There was a customer backlash and coffee sales dropped. They eventually raised the temp.
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                  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                    Banned
                    Originally Posted by Midnight Oil View Post

                    If I'm not mistaken, McDonald's actually did drop their coffee temperature by 20 degrees or so after the lawsuit. There was a customer backlash and coffee sales dropped. They eventually raised the temp.
                    ... and you may be mistaken about that. McDonald's is the only company that continues to have a debate about coffee temperature.

                    :

                    McDonald's Operations Manual required the franchisee to hold its coffee at 180 to 190 degrees Fahrenheit;
                    Coffee at that temperature, if spilled, causes third-degree burns (the worst kind of burn) in three to seven seconds;
                    Third-degree burns do not heal without skin grafting, debridement and whirlpool treatments that cost tens of thousands of dollars and result in permanent disfigurement, extreme pain and disability of the victim for many months, and in some cases, years;
                    The chairman of the department of mechanical engineering and bio-mechanical engineering at the University of Texas testified that this risk of harm is unacceptable, as did a widely recognized expert on burns, the editor in chief of the leading scholarly publication in the specialty, the Journal of Burn Care and Rehabilitation;
                    McDonald's admitted that it has known about the risk of serious burns from its scalding hot coffee for more than 10 years -- the risk was brought to its attention through numerous other claims and suits, to no avail;
                    From 1982 to 1992, McDonald's coffee burned more than 700 people, many receiving severe burns to the genital area, perineum, inner thighs, and buttocks;
                    Not only men and women, but also children and infants, have been burned by McDonald's scalding hot coffee, in some instances due to inadvertent spillage by McDonald's employees;
                    McDonald's admitted at trial that its coffee is "not fit for consumption" when sold because it causes severe scalds if spilled or drunk;
                    McDonald's admitted at trial that consumers are unaware of the extent of the risk of serious burns from spilled coffee served at McDonald's then required temperature;
                    McDonald's admitted that it did not warn customers of the nature and extent of this risk and could offer no explanation as to why it did not;
                    Liebeck's treating physician testified that her injury was one of the worst scald burns he had ever seen.
                    McDonald's did a survey of other coffee establishments in the area, and found that coffee at other places was between 30-40 degrees cooler.
                    Moreover, the Shriner's Burn Institute in Cincinnati had published warnings to the franchise food industry that its members were unnecessarily causing serious scald burns by serving beverages above 130 degrees Fahrenheit. In refusing to grant a new trial in the case, Judge Robert Scott called McDonald's behavior "callous." Morgan, The Recorder, September 30, 1994.
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                    • Profile picture of the author Midnight Oil
                      Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                      ... and you may be mistaken about that.
                      About what? That McDonald's dropped the temp of their coffee after the lawsuit and then eventually raised it again? I don't think I'm mistaken about that, but possibly about how much they dropped it.

                      Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                      McDonald's is the only company that continues to have a debate about coffee temperature.
                      Starbucks, Burger King, Tim Hortons, Dunkin' Donuts and others certainly wish that were true. They may not all be high profile cases being bounced around the interwebs, but those debates are going on via attorneys all the time. If you're a chain serving hot beverages, there are burn lawsuits and settlements. McDonald's just happens to be the one that gets most of the coverage.
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                      • Profile picture of the author Kay King
                        Lowest coffee temps tested in one city were found at Arby's and Wendy's - not places known for high coffee sales.

                        McDonald's dropped the temperature - customers complained and sales declined - so they raised it. The problem they have is the number of people who are buying coffee on their way to work - that won't be opened until they get to work. If it's at drinkable temperature when handed to them - it will be cold 10 minutes later.
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                        • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                          Banned
                          Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                          Lowest coffee temps tested in one city were found at Arby's and Wendy's - not places known for high coffee sales.
                          Also not noted for breakfast or for having convenient locations all over the place, as is McDonalds. Arby's and Wendy's are much more of a lunch menu. The Wendy's around here don't even open until 10am, and people are already at work by then.

                          McDonald's dropped the temperature - customers complained and sales declined - so they raised it. The problem they have is the number of people who are buying coffee on their way to work - that won't be opened until they get to work. If it's at drinkable temperature when handed to them - it will be cold 10 minutes later.[/QUOTE]

                          Most people who buy coffee, buy for the commute, which would typically be longer than a 10 minute drive. If they only have a 10 minute drive, I imagine that it wouldn't be worth it to get coffee from McDonalds when many places of work have a coffee pot sitting there ready and waiting for employees to use ... and who can't wait 10 minutes for that?

                          Every time I've bought coffee for the ride, it was for a long ride with the intention of drinking it during the ride.

                          The woman in this lawsuit only initially wanted her medical expenses paid, which were $11K. McDonalds refused and offered her $800. They could have settled so easily and paid those medical bills and thrown in a bit on top for suffering through hospitalization and skin grafts. They chose not to ... and they paid the price for that.
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                          • Profile picture of the author seasoned
                            Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                            The woman in this lawsuit only initially wanted her medical expenses paid, which were $11K. McDonalds refused and offered her $800. They could have settled so easily and paid those medical bills and thrown in a bit on top for suffering through hospitalization and skin grafts. They chose not to ... and they paid the price for that.
                            WOW! TRUE STORY! I remember a few times, when I was a kid, I slipped wth a hammer, and hit my thumb. The part under the nail was black and blue for quite a while! And ONCE, I had one of those old soldering GUNS. NOT the little irons, but a GUN. And I was distracted and got a HUGE welt down my arm! Oh yeah, it ALSO burned the carpet.

                            I guess I should package that up and ask sears for $10,000 or so! I don't think I have the receipts anymore. It WAS over 40 years ago. Few would likely remember. I doubt my father even saw them. I don't even have a scar! But HEY, they should have a gun ONLY hot enough to melt solder, NOT hot enough to burn a carpet or skin! (They ARE contradictory goals!) And that hammer? Maybe they should put padding on it!

                            Steve
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                            • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                              Banned
                              Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

                              Few would likely remember. I doubt my father even saw them. I don't even have a scar!
                              So how long was your hospital stay and how big was your hospital bill? Who hasn't lost a finger or thumbnail or gotten burned at some point? The point of a lawsuit is to sue for real damages, like in your case, time lost in playing :p
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                              • Profile picture of the author seasoned
                                Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                                So how long was your hospital stay and how big was your hospital bill? Who hasn't lost a finger or thumbnail or gotten burned at some point? The point of a lawsuit is to sue for real damages, like in your case, time lost in playing :p
                                I wasn't playing. I was using a real hammer and real nails on real wood to build a real project. As for the soldering gun, it seemed like a nice deal at the time, and I asked my mother to buy it for me, if memory serves. She wanted me to hand her something, while I was soldering for ANOTHER project, and I spoke with her a while and handed her the stuff. Of course I set the gun down. One benefit of having a gun. When I moved back, I noticed my arm was on the tip, and had a nice big welt where the tip was. Mine was KIND of like THIS: Sears.com but the leads were bigger, and farther apart, and it was kind of a drab green. I didn't LOSE a fingernail. The BED just got filled with unoxygenated blood. But HEY, that woman at mcdonalds just wanted to get burned. SERIOUSLY, she WAS asking for it.

                                As I recall, I was in the hospital a WEEK. The operation took 13 hours. They had a tag team of 5 doctors. When I got out, I was effectively incapacitated for ANOTHER week. I couldn't even walk to the other side of the home(approx 50') without getting winded. As I recall, I didn't get back on the internet for ANOTHER week. The bill was roughly $250,000! That was what the hospital GOT. They actually billed for more, so the original bill might have been $500K, who knows. Of course, it gets hard, since not all is on the insurance and you get bills from the hospital, doctor, and various others, like the anesthesiologist, and then there is the ambulance! I thought I had it made with the ambulance. Just go to the hospital JUST BEFORE the freeway I thought. THEY said it MIGHT be my heart, so they kept going only the freeway, maybe another 20 miles to ANOTHER hospital because THEY were known for such things.

                                Why do you ask?

                                Steve
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                                • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                                  Banned
                                  Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

                                  I wasn't playing. I was using a real hammer and real nails on real wood to build a real project. As for the soldering gun, it seemed like a nice deal at the time, and I asked my mother to buy it for me, if memory serves. She wanted me to hand her something, while I was soldering for ANOTHER project, and I spoke with her a while and handed her the stuff. Of course I set the gun down. One benefit of having a gun. When I moved back, I noticed my arm was on the tip, and had a nice big welt where the tip was. Mine was KIND of like THIS: Sears.com but the leads were bigger, and farther apart, and it was kind of a drab green. I didn't LOSE a fingernail. The BED just got filled with unoxygenated blood. But HEY, that woman at mcdonalds just wanted to get burned. SERIOUSLY, she WAS asking for it.

                                  As I recall, I was in the hospital a WEEK. The operation took 13 hours. They had a tag team of 5 doctors. When I got out, I was effectively incapacitated for ANOTHER week. I couldn't even walk to the other side of the home(approx 50') without getting winded. As I recall, I didn't get back on the internet for ANOTHER week. The bill was roughly $250,000! That was what the hospital GOT. They actually billed for more, so the original bill might have been $500K, who knows. Of course, it gets hard, since not all is on the insurance and you get bills from the hospital, doctor, and various others, like the anesthesiologist, and then there is the ambulance! I thought I had it made with the ambulance. Just go to the hospital JUST BEFORE the freeway I thought. THEY said it MIGHT be my heart, so they kept going only the freeway, maybe another 20 miles to ANOTHER hospital because THEY were known for such things.

                                  Why do you ask?

                                  Steve
                                  Why do I ask? I ask because you said you banged your thumb and blackened a nail and you got a welt on your arm that your father probably didn't even notice and didn't leave a scar. Now all of a sudden the story is:
                                  As I recall, I was in the hospital a WEEK. The operation took 13 hours. They had a tag team of 5 doctors. When I got out, I was effectively incapacitated for ANOTHER week. I couldn't even walk to the other side of the home(approx 50') without getting winded. As I recall, I didn't get back on the internet for ANOTHER week. The bill was roughly $250,000!
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                                  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
                                    Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                                    Why do I ask? I ask because you said you banged your thumb and blackened a nail and you got a welt on your arm that your father probably didn't even notice and didn't leave a scar. Now all of a sudden the story is:
                                    The story didn't change, they were SEVERAL stories! The aortic dissection had NO clear cause, so how could I sue for THAT? I NEVER said my father didn't notice them. THAT would have been a lie, and could never stand up in court. WHY? It implies that he COULD have noticed them, and he never could of because HE WASN'T THERE! My parents had LONG since divorced.

                                    What!?!??!? You think I had ONE event where I hit my thumb, got a welt, etc...... BTW, that happened over 40 years ago. And that all had to happen by the time I was two, for my father to have a decent chance to see it, and it was several years later. And you think that all of the sudden I am talking about the AD? I have spoken of that on and off here since it happened, which WAS by the way, before most even knew who obama was, he became a WDC senator only 1 MONTH earlier, so it isn't some tool to use to discredit him, etc...

                                    Though always hated, though I understood, the idea of insurance, a disaster is where you have a chance to be gratified. You can FINALLY say that you some some benefit from paying for so long. Let's say I paid $10K a year every year, it was STILL worth it! Of course, I STILL think they waste too much time, and things cost too much. One part they used on me was billed at $20,000! It looks like JUNK, and another doctor said THEY would have charged like $5,000. I understand about having to use the special stuff to get the graft to fuse, and it having to be sterile, and regulations, and lawsuits, etc.... But THAT is where government should try to improve things to lower costs in hospitalization.

                                    SURE, that part is RARE. Supposedly, chances are good you may NEVER know anyone that has such a part. But the SAME forces that affect that part affect many things you take DAILY! MOST people don't care if a bottle of aspirin costs 50% more. It is different when you add a couple zeros to the bill and see several OTHERS mark things up.

                                    Steve
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              • Profile picture of the author Midnight Oil
                Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                The average serving temp of coffee from a home brewer is 140.
                That's only because you're still using that old brewer from the 90's.

                Most today run between 190 and 210 degrees.
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                • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                  Banned
                  Originally Posted by Midnight Oil View Post

                  Hot Water Causes Third Degree Burns...
                  ...in 1 second at 156º
                  ...in 2 seconds at 149º
                  ...in 5 seconds at 140º

                  The Burn Foundation - www.burnfoundation.org - Scald Burns
                  Yeah, I solved the problem long ago. Haven't done business at McD's when I discovered that their coffee was simply too hot to travel with. I much prefer the taste, aroma and temperature of Starbucks. The extra money is worth it.

                  Originally Posted by Midnight Oil View Post

                  That's only because you're still using that old brewer from the 90's.

                  Most today run between 190 and 210 degrees.
                  I bought a latest in the past year. State of the Art and I can drink my coffee as soon as it is brewed, which I cannot do with McD's coffee without scalding my lips. It's simply too hot. Too hot to hold the cup and too hot to drink. It's unnecessary.
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                  • Profile picture of the author Midnight Oil
                    Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                    I much prefer the taste, aroma and temperature of Starbucks.
                    As do I, but their temps actually run as high or higher than Mickey's. They also deal with the burn lawsuits.

                    Working in the industry as long as I did, never once did I have someone tell me their coffee was too hot. But even piping hot, I would still get complaints about it being too cold. :rolleyes:

                    People have a very strange relationship with their coffee. I love coffee, but don't like hot beverages at all. I usually let mine sit until room temperature before I drink it, and can sip on it for a couple few hours from there.
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