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Old 01-10-2014, 11:16 AM   #1
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Default USA Yearly National Deficit Numbers Declining...




Projected for 2014 - around 540 billion.


BTW...


The deficit is the yearly shortfall of the federal gov.

The national debt is the total amount the federal gov owes to various parties which is now around 17 trillion.

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Old 01-10-2014, 11:36 AM   #2
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Old 01-10-2014, 11:39 AM   #3
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Default Re: USA Yearly National Deficit Numbers Declining...

Thank goodness for sequestration...

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Old 01-10-2014, 12:13 PM   #4
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Default Re: USA Yearly National Deficit Numbers Declining...

So what happened to the like 20TRILLION outside of that? Last I saw, the average "budget deficit" was like 1.6Trillion/year(So the effect on the debt is 1T, 2T, 3.6T,5.2T,6.8T,8.5T,10.1T,11.6T). and that was since 2008(So just the last 8 years, about 11.6T in DEBT, according to the "budget"! It didn't start with Bush, but it was before this admin.). And don't forget the debts slated to start increasing about 2 weeks ago.

ALSO, PLEASE tell congress! And PLEASE PLEASE tell S&P, MOODY'S, ETC.... AND PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE tell the US DEBT CLOCK: U.S. National Debt Clock : Real Time

They STILL seem to think our debt is about $17.321T+

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Old 01-10-2014, 12:16 PM   #5
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Default Re: USA Yearly National Deficit Numbers Declining...

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Originally Posted by Horny Devil View Post
BTW he was WRONG! There are at least FOUR! Not that it matters TOO much, because the US is being attacked on ALL FOUR FRONTS! I WOULD tell you the other two, but TOO POLITICAL.

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Old 01-10-2014, 02:39 PM   #6
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Default Re: USA Yearly National Deficit Numbers Declining...

The deficit is declining. This great news is brought to you by the people who cannot account for 9 Trillion dollars...


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Old 01-10-2014, 02:42 PM   #7
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Default Re: USA Yearly National Deficit Numbers Declining...

Quote:
Originally Posted by seasoned View Post
So what happened to the like 20TRILLION outside of that? Last I saw, the average "budget deficit" was like 1.6Trillion/year(So the effect on the debt is 1T, 2T, 3.6T,5.2T,6.8T,8.5T,10.1T,11.6T). and that was since 2008(So just the last 8 years, about 11.6T in DEBT, according to the "budget"! It didn't start with Bush, but it was before this admin.). And don't forget the debts slated to start increasing about 2 weeks ago.

ALSO, PLEASE tell congress! And PLEASE PLEASE tell S&P, MOODY'S, ETC.... AND PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE tell the US DEBT CLOCK: U.S. National Debt Clock : Real Time

They STILL seem to think our debt is about $17.321T+

Steve
This admin is making up all sorts of figures. Go figure. And...the deficit is different from the debt. The debt CAN'T go down under this fiat currency. It doesn't work that way. That's why the "debt" is more of a diversionary device to scare people who don't understand the difference between macro and micro economics. YOU can pay a personal debt down.

The money to pay down the debt on a national level doesn't exist. Every time a dollar is printed it costs xx to print it and then there is also a % attached to it. Where does the money come from to pay that? It doesn't exist. You have to print it (i.e. - accrue more debt). The only way the debt can be decreased is if part or all of it is cancelled.

The main reason the money system was set up like this was to steal the people's freedom. We are surfs to the world bank. The contract either is about to expire or did, and we could be free people again if Congress didn't revote us back into the system. Since they are just electing a new person to run the fed, it looks like they signed us up for another hundred years of slavery. Exciting huh?

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Old 01-10-2014, 03:34 PM   #8
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Default Re: USA Yearly National Deficit Numbers Declining...

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Originally Posted by travlinguy View Post
The deficit is declining. This great news is brought to you by the people who cannot account for 9 Trillion dollars...

THAT'S what happened! OK, OK, I'll tell you the 3rd way you destroy a country! Have the "leadership" and/or media ******LIE******!

OK, they just said they lost 9T, and don't count it as the debt. VIOLA! INSTANT deficit reduction! This is done ALL THE TIME. With PEOPLE, usually something ends up getting repossessed, or people get killed.

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Old 01-10-2014, 03:48 PM   #9
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Default Re: USA Yearly National Deficit Numbers Declining...

Quote:
Originally Posted by seasoned View Post
THAT'S what happened! OK, OK, I'll tell you the 3rd way you destroy a country! Have the "leadership" and/or media ******LIE******!

OK, they just said they lost 9T, and don't count it as the debt. VIOLA! INSTANT deficit reduction! This is done ALL THE TIME. With PEOPLE, usually something ends up getting repossessed, or people get killed.

Steve
You think it's limited to nine trillion? That's just the monkey that got out of the bag.

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Old 01-10-2014, 03:56 PM   #10
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Default Re: USA Yearly National Deficit Numbers Declining...

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You think it's limited to nine trillion? That's just the monkey that got out of the bag.
HECK NO! I one time estimated it to be well into the trillions DECADES ago! When they talk about debt, they mean IMMEDIATE RIGHT THIS SECOND debt!

Quick question! You buy a 1 MILLION dollar home the traditional way, AT ASKING, WHAT is your debt, WITH a 100% mortgage?

I say $1,000,000 to about $4,000,000!

The GOVERNMENT, just for THEM, and PUBLICITY, says the debt is $8,800! That's IT, not even $9 THOUSAND on a 1 MILLION dollar home! THAT is why they kept speaking of "social security surpluses" when in reality they won't know that until like 10 year after the fact, which is ,ideally, NEVER!

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Old 01-10-2014, 06:48 PM   #11
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Default Re: USA Yearly National Deficit Numbers Declining...

Quote:
Originally Posted by seasoned View Post
THAT'S what happened! OK, OK, I'll tell you the 3rd way you destroy a country! Have the "leadership" and/or media ******LIE******!

OK, they just said they lost 9T, and don't count it as the debt. VIOLA! INSTANT deficit reduction! This is done ALL THE TIME. With PEOPLE, usually something ends up getting repossessed, or people get killed.

Steve
Yep, need to cut back on the Stargate program, LOL!


Shane

That is the TV one, not the remote viewing one!

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Old 01-10-2014, 07:32 PM   #12
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Default Re: USA Yearly National Deficit Numbers Declining...

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Yep, need to cut back on the Stargate program, LOL!


Shane

That is the TV one, not the remote viewing one!
Screw that, they need to put it back in production.

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Old 01-10-2014, 07:36 PM   #13
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Default Re: USA Yearly National Deficit Numbers Declining...

HELL YES STARGATE == AWESOME TV SHOW
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Old 01-10-2014, 08:04 PM   #14
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Default Re: USA Yearly National Deficit Numbers Declining...

You have to see the humor. The sequester had D.C. kicking and screaming...and now it's given equal deficit reduction credit with low interest rates, lack of stimulus spending and higher taxes.

The debt reached a shocking $17 trillion in mid-October. Now it's 1/3 of the way to $18 trillion. The debt per taxpayer has gone past the $150k mark.


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Old 01-11-2014, 10:48 AM   #15
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Default Re: USA Yearly National Deficit Numbers Declining...

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Originally Posted by Kay King View Post
You have to see the humor. The sequester had D.C. kicking and screaming...and now it's given equal deficit reduction credit with low interest rates, lack of stimulus spending and higher taxes.

The debt reached a shocking $17 trillion in mid-October. Now it's 1/3 of the way to $18 trillion. The debt per taxpayer has gone past the $150k mark.
The sequester is only worth about 80 bill of the yearly reduction and its no wonder that some people don't like it since...

... it was/is one of the stupidest and counter-productive (from a pure numerical standpoint) ways to cut the yearly budget.

Such as...

- The nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office on Thursday estimated that keeping the spending cuts from sequestration in place through fiscal 2014 would cost up to 1.6 million jobs.

- Canceling the cuts, on the other hand, would yield between 300,000 to 1.6 million new jobs, with the most likely outcome being the addition of 900,000, the CBO said.

Read more: http://thehill.com/blogs/on-the-mone...#ixzz2q6URXKGG
Follow us: @thehill on Twitter | TheHill on Facebook

CBO: Sequester cuts would cost up to 1.6M jobs through 2014 | TheHill


The only reason for the sequestration was because some people (who claim to be deficit hawks) ...

...would not in any way shape or form get any of the gravy tax giveaways to the wealthy and corps out of the tax code and give it back to the treasury where by law (for those that claim it will only be wasted) ... it could have been used for deficit reduction - only.

Instead... (protecting the gravy tax giveaways at all costs)

Those very same people would rather take money from programs like meals on wheels, head start, food stamps and military pensions instead of taking back those gravy tax giveaways to the wealthy and large corps...

... which easily amounts to 200-400 billion per year - some say much more.


*** The yearly deficit could easily be 200-400 billion lower right now.

The only money the wealthy have contributed to deficit reduction was the 60-70 billion per year when their top tax rate was recently raised from 35% to 39% as it was during the Clinton years.

Those very same wonderful people on the hill held the rate for normal earners hostage for a few years saying...

... if the rates on the wealthy has to go up then the rates must go up on everyone but eventually they were finally outflanked by public opinion and had to relent.

The number one quickest and most productive way of getting rid of the yearly deficit so that we can start working on the 17 trillion national debt is to...

... get the economy going again with strategic investments in our people and the country- not by a slew of economically counter-productive measures like crushing workers, throwing people off food stamps and unemployment insurance.

As far as the national debt is concerned, we are out of the danger of long term trillion dollar yearly deficits adding to it...

...and IMHO the nation can easily carry the 17 trillion national debt and the interest payments on it until we turn the economy and the yearly deficit situation around until we're in surplus territory.

Note: about half of the national debt is owned by foreigners.

No one can say the nation can not manage its finances because we've already done it after running up the debt from 1980 to 1992 and had a balanced budget along with a surplus in the last 2 years of the term of POTUS #42. (circa 2000AD)


BTW...

What's the use of the federal gov having a great balance sheet if the population is further impoverished as a result?

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Old 01-11-2014, 11:44 AM   #16
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Default Re: USA Yearly National Deficit Numbers Declining...

Quote:
...and IMHO the nation can easily carry the 17 trillion national debt and the interest payments on it until we turn the economy and the yearly deficit situation around until we're in surplus territory.
How about 18 or 20 trillion - which is predicted by the budget office? We can manage the debt....until we can't.

Arguing sequester is a dead issue - it was supported by both sides of the aisle (include the President) because no one thought the other side would go that far. It was a game of chicken at a high level and both sides contributed.

We are losing balance in our society/economy.

Great: More Americans on Welfare Than Working Full Time - Christine Rousselle

Quote:
A new report from the Census Bureau (2013 report) showed a total of 108,592,000 people were on some sort of means-tested government benefits program in the fourth quarter of 2011, yet only 101,716,000 people were employed full-time for the entire year.
Quote:
That means there were about 1.07 people getting some form of means-tested government benefit for every 1 person working full-time year round. The Census Bureau counted as recipients of means-tested government programs “anyone residing in a household in which one or more people received benefits from the program.” Many of these people lived in households receiving more than one form of means-tested benefit at the same time.
- See more at: Census Bureau: Means-Tested Gov't Benefit Recipients Outnumber Full-Time Year-Round Workers | CNS News
That means there were about 1.07 people getting some form of means-tested government benefit for every 1 person working full-time year round.

Consider the economic times, those numbers may make sense - but they won't work if they become permanent. They won't work if we continue to add more and more benefits that must be paid out.

Quote:
The Census Bureau counted as recipients of means-tested government programs “anyone residing in a household in which one or more people received benefits from the program.” Many of these people lived in households receiving more than one form of means-tested benefit at the same time.
We have to help those who need help but we have to balance that with reality of how much of our resources can be spent on those programs.


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Old 01-12-2014, 12:00 AM   #17
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Default Re: USA Yearly National Deficit Numbers Declining...

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Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post
The sequester is only worth about 80 bill of the yearly reduction and its no wonder that some people don't like it since...

... it was/is one of the stupidest and counter-productive (from a pure numerical standpoint) ways to cut the yearly budget.

Such as...

- The nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office on Thursday estimated that keeping the spending cuts from sequestration in place through fiscal 2014 would cost up to 1.6 million jobs.

- Canceling the cuts, on the other hand, would yield between 300,000 to 1.6 million new jobs, with the most likely outcome being the addition of 900,000, the CBO said.
So you are saying 1.6 million new PAID jobs are created with NO COST, NO TAXES, and NO NEED? ******FANTASTIC!****** Why don't they create an extra say 3 billion jobs, and employ the entire planet!?!?!?!?!?!?

Quote:
The only reason for the sequestration was because some people (who claim to be deficit hawks) ...
ACTUALLY the who and why can't be discussed here, but I know YOU wouldn't like it!

Quote:
Those very same people would rather take money from programs like meals on wheels, head start, food stamps and military pensions instead of taking back those gravy tax giveaways to the wealthy and large corps...
No they wouldn't!

Quote:
The only money the wealthy have contributed to deficit reduction was the 60-70 billion per year when their top tax rate was recently raised from 35% to 39% as it was during the Clinton years.
Considering what many seem to consider rich WHO do you think is paying the tax?

"R"=T-S

**********WHY********* does everyone care so much about R while S throws it down the toilet? That IS what is happening! You always talk about T because then you can blame everyone ELSE while you SQUANDER S!

You know what it is like? It is like you "run" a food pantry and have NO security on it! You take a portion of the stuff from the top as pay for "running" the pantry. People DONATE ******TONS****** of food! And others complain, because they don't get enough FOOD(R). YOU say the problem is that you don't get enough DONATIONS(T)! ALL THE WHILE YOU and your cronies take from the food, and let mice and other vermin rummage through the rest!

Quote:
What's the use of the federal gov having a great balance sheet if the population is further impoverished as a result?
WOW! OK, let's say we DON'T read the laws before passing them, counter bad laws, follow the constitution, or have a budget. *******WOW*******! I just figured out a way to balance the budget while lowering taxes and regulations! It is so ABSURDLY obvious! If my premise is true, according to your proposal, then we have THOUSANDS, NO, MILLIONS, that are HEAVILY overpaid for what they promised to do but obviously won't be doing! FIRE THEM, VOID ALL BENEFITS, and it would give us potentially TRILLIONS to pay of the debt with. HECK, SUE them for preference, under 547!

Steve
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Old 01-12-2014, 09:22 AM   #18
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Default Re: USA Yearly National Deficit Numbers Declining...

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...We have to help those who need help but we have to balance that with reality of how much of our resources can be spent on those programs.
I don't believe that there are 20 politicians on the national stage that are even capable of it.

One side of the aisle subscribes to the economic fallacy that deficit spending is good. That it is the answer to our economic troubles. Spend our way to prosperity. The fault with that approach is that it doesn't work, and no amount of evidence to the contrary even fazes them. If the results aren't showing, then we haven't borrowed and spent enough, and the government hasn't acted the part of Robin Hood effectively enough - if the poor had all the riches' money we'd be in fat city.

On the other hand, the other side has history on its side, but is unable to use because they're either too scared of being demagogued right out of the capitol, or ... there is no 'or'. They're typical politicians in that their only true ideology is reelection.

Every time taxes have been reduced by a significant amount, treasury receipts have increased and the growth rate has jumped.

But here's the biggest problem, and why fiscally responsible politicians (if there is such a thing) rarely make it to Washington D.C.: who's going to vote for Scrooge over Robin Hood?
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Old 01-12-2014, 11:03 AM   #19
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Default Re: USA Yearly National Deficit Numbers Declining...

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I don't believe that there are 20 politicians on the national stage that are even capable of it.

One side of the aisle subscribes to the economic fallacy that deficit spending is good. That it is the answer to our economic troubles. Spend our way to prosperity. The fault with that approach is that it doesn't work, and no amount of evidence to the contrary even fazes them. If the results aren't showing, then we haven't borrowed and spent enough, and the government hasn't acted the part of Robin Hood effectively enough - if the poor had all the riches' money we'd be in fat city.

On the other hand, the other side has history on its side, but is unable to use because they're either too scared of being demagogued right out of the capitol, or ... there is no 'or'. They're typical politicians in that their only true ideology is reelection.

Every time taxes have been reduced by a significant amount, treasury receipts have increased and the growth rate has jumped.

But here's the biggest problem, and why fiscally responsible politicians (if there is such a thing) rarely make it to Washington D.C.: who's going to vote for Scrooge over Robin Hood?
but what if we put Mike TYson in charge, I think that would resolve much of the problem.

He is perhaps the only person who has enough charisma to win the White House and reach across the political spectrum.

He is muslim and black, has a Mao Tse-Tung tattoo yet he campaigned alongside republicans.He is a lover of animals( pigeons) so he can rally all the PETA freaks and the friends of nature.

The main problem in politics is name recognition. Everyone knows Mike Tyson. Anthropologists would go to undiscovered tribes in Africa and they would know Mike Tyson.

He can have Dennis Rodman as a running mate. Rodman has great diplomatic skills and actually is friend with Kim Jung Un.

Wow.

Unbeatable ticket.



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Old 01-12-2014, 11:05 AM   #20
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Default Re: USA Yearly National Deficit Numbers Declining...

Unfortunately, we often elect good politicians - not good businessmen or economists or....the depths are shallow in a sound byte world.


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Old 01-13-2014, 01:19 PM   #21
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Default Re: USA Yearly National Deficit Numbers Declining...

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How about 18 or 20 trillion - which is predicted by the budget office? We can manage the debt....until we can't.

Arguing sequester is a dead issue - it was supported by both sides of the aisle (include the President) because no one thought the other side would go that far. It was a game of chicken at a high level and both sides contributed.

We are losing balance in our society/economy.

Great: More Americans on Welfare Than Working Full Time - Christine Rousselle

That means there were about 1.07 people getting some form of means-tested government benefit for every 1 person working full-time year round.

Consider the economic times, those numbers may make sense - but they won't work if they become permanent. They won't work if we continue to add more and more benefits that must be paid out.

We have to help those who need help but we have to balance that with reality of how much of our resources can be spent on those programs.
Once again the only reason for the sequester is that some folks on the hill refuse to get any money (raise revenues) out of the tax code but you just don't want to admit it.

They've finagled a lot of cuts since 2009 but they simply refuse to raise any revenues.

They rather throw kids off head start and food stamps than rescind that 200-400 billion in gravy tax giveaways to the wealthy and corps.


BTW...

I love how the 108 million persons is counted and perceived by some folks.

If only one person in the household is receiving any type of aid - the entire household is counted so...

One could easily get the erroneous impression that all 108 million of them are getting a individual check each verse only 101 million people working full time.

It reminds me of the 47% not paying taxes figure cited often by some folks.

You said...

"How about 18 or 20 trillion - which is predicted by the budget office? We can manage the debt....until we can't."

I say...


As a nation we've carried a lot of debt before.






I say...

From what I've heard, even if its 25 trillion, as long as the economy is growing faster than the national debt - the total national debt is not a problem - we can carry the debt.

It won't be the best of all situations especially since the interest paid on that huge debt could be used for stuff like...

..., paying down the national debt, lowering taxes for ordinary folks, investment in the nation, applied towards all those aid programs or saved for a rainy day but we can live with it - and since its so huge, it looks like we're going to have to live with it for the foreseeable future.


>>> And we're not even close to justifying throwing children off food stamps along with the rest of the counter productive cuts.

FYI...

Total interest payments -- the $220 billion plus $140 billion in interest paid for intragovernmental borrowing, such as tapping surplus Social Security funds -- was about $360 billion in 2012. That corresponds with the total debt of roughly $17 trillion.


That's why a big priority should be to help get the economy going full blast and some again.

This is a consumer based economy meaning the more people spending money the better and where some of them get their money is not that important - as long as they're spending it.


The faster we get that yearly deficit down the slower we add another trillion to the total national debt so...

... true deficit hawks should be more than happy to endorse plans that...

a: Rescind that 200-400 billion in yearly gravy tax giveaways to the wealthy and the large corps and return it straight to the treasury for deficit reduction.

(that would put a nice dent in the yearly deficit and won't hurt the economy in any way, shape or form - its simply gravy.

b: Measures that clearly stimulate job growth such as fixing our infrastructure and going green and other investments in the nation and our people.

At the turn of the 21st century, the nation ran a 200+ billion yearly surplus.

The number of people receiving for example food stamps has doubled since 2006 but I bet that number and most of the other numbers related to aid programs will go down once the economy recovers.

-- Since the yearly deficit is coming down - from 1.4 trill in 2009 to a projected 540 bill in 2014, we are out of danger as far as the national debt problem is concerned.

Yes, we need to be a lot more careful about who gets what and how much but throwing woman and kids off food stamps etc. especially when its economically counter-productive and also adds to the national deficit - because this is a economically consumer society - is clearly not the way to go.

It would be a much better (economically) and humane strategy to get those gravy tax giveaways from the wealthy and the large corps back to working for us...

... instead of taking money from poor old people and military pensioners etc.

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Old 01-13-2014, 02:47 PM   #22
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Default Re: USA Yearly National Deficit Numbers Declining...

Quote:
It would be a much better (economically) and humane strategy to get those gravy tax giveaways from the wealthy and the large corps back to working for us...
It would, the problem is the wealthy and corporations are lining the pockets of the politicians. Look at the number of congressmen, the president and others in the federal govt. who where either millionaires before they where elected or became millionaires after they became elected. Then they get on their soapbox and call for income equity, to make the voters feel good and vote for them again and do nothing about it. By the way the presidents net worth is between 1.8 and 6.8 million. He first became a millionaire in 2006 as a senator. In fact going back to Washington the majority of our presidents where millionaires.
Now who do you think they will and have looked out for?

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Old 01-13-2014, 03:07 PM   #23
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It would, the problem is the wealthy and corporations are lining the pockets of the politicians. Look at the number of congressmen, the president and others in the federal govt. who where either millionaires before they where elected or became millionaires after they became elected. Then they get on their soapbox and call for income equity, to make the voters feel good and vote for them again and do nothing about it. By the way the presidents net worth is between 1.8 and 6.8 million. He first became a millionaire in 2006 as a senator. In fact going back to Washington the majority of our presidents where millionaires.
Now who do you think they will and have looked out for?
Did he write a book or two to obtain that wealth or did he receive some sort of sweetheart package etc?

IMHO...

If the congress can change what will happen in the powerful health care arena - anything can happen in this country.

If one group retains control of the senate and wins the house in 2014, I'll bet we'll see some funds extracted from the tax code and a whole host of positive nation building measures as long as they can get probably 3-5 folks from the other side to join them.

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Old 01-13-2014, 03:20 PM   #24
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Unfortunately, we often elect good politicians - not good businessmen or economists or....the depths are shallow in a sound byte world.
Maybe the smartest post on the page.

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Old 01-13-2014, 04:09 PM   #25
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Did he write a book or two to obtain that wealth or did he receive some sort of sweetheart package etc?

IMHO...

If the congress can change what will happen in the powerful health care arena - anything can happen in this country.

If one group retains control of the senate and wins the house in 2014, I'll bet we'll see some funds extracted from the tax code and a whole host of positive nation building measures as long as they can get probably 3-5 folks from the other side to join them.
Did I say he (or anyone else) in the govt. got their wealth solely from payoffs? No. I said they were either millionaires before they where elected or became millionaires after.
As for the healthcare law, you understand there is a provision in the law that the insurance companies can get a taxpayer funded bailout if they loose money?
So much for affordable. Why do you think it is a mandate that you have to purchase insurance? Doesn't that sound like we are being forced to purchase something from a private company?
Also don't give me that subsidy crap for lower income people.
That doesn't apply to the bronze plans or does it apply to Medicare.
I swear I wish you people on both sides of the isle would actually pay attention to what's going on in Washington for a change instead instead of just listening to the hype both sides put out.
Both sides are only concerned about being in power and don't give a rats ass about the people. Yet party members lap it all up like a cat lapping up milk. I was told once that being an independent and actually researching what the candidates are doing who are up for re-election or election was taking the easy way. like always voting for your party is hard

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Old 01-13-2014, 04:36 PM   #26
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Did I say he (or anyone else) in the govt. got their wealth solely from payoffs? No. I said they were either millionaires before they where elected or became millionaires after.

As for the healthcare law, you understand there is a provision in the law that the insurance companies can get a taxpayer funded bailout if they loose money?

So much for affordable. Why do you think it is a mandate that you have to purchase insurance? Doesn't that sound like we are being forced to purchase something from a private company?

Also don't give me that subsidy crap for lower income people.

That doesn't apply to the bronze plans or does it apply to Medicare.
I swear I wish you people on both sides of the isle would actually pay attention to what's going on in Washington for a change instead instead of just listening to the hype both sides put out.

Both sides are only concerned about being in power and don't give a rats ass about the people. Yet party members lap it all up like a cat lapping up milk.

I was told once that being an independent and actually researching what the candidates are doing who are up for re-election or election was taking the easy way. like always voting for your party is hard
I know you're in principle opposed to the ACA so I won't bother going round and round with you on that but you also said...

As for the healthcare law, you understand there is a provision in the law that the insurance companies can get a taxpayer funded bailout if they loose money?

Please show me the stuff about the bailout contained in the law. I'd love to see it.

Thanks!!

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Old 01-13-2014, 04:56 PM   #27
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Default Re: USA Yearly National Deficit Numbers Declining...

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I know you're in principle opposed to the ACA so I won't bother going round and round with you on that but you also said...

As for the healthcare law, you understand there is a provision in the law that the insurance companies can get a taxpayer funded bailout if they loose money?

Please show me the stuff about the bailout contained in the law. I'd love to see it.

Thanks!!

TL
Scroll down, it starts around page 12.
http://www.cms.gov/cciio/resources/f...final-rule.pdf
A good article about it.
Charles Krauthammer: Stop the bailout, now - The Washington Post

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Old 01-13-2014, 05:57 PM   #28
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I did check it out and it sounded omninus so I decided to see if there was another take on it and here's what I found.

Debunking The Latest Obamacare Myth: The 'Insurance Company Bailout' | ThinkProgress

Wow, $63 per year tax for only 3 years will be a massive tax increase on the average taxpayer.

Once again, methinks the town criers and nit-pickers doth protest too much with another hyped-up scare tactic and...

... once again, as far as I'm concerned, the benefits of the law outweigh the drawbacks by leaps and bounds.

Its a very interesting article detailing how some very clever shock absorbers are built into the law to help it through the early years.


Debunking The Latest Obamacare Myth: The 'Insurance Company Bailout' | ThinkProgress

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Old 01-13-2014, 06:15 PM   #29
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Unfortunately, we often elect good politicians - not good businessmen or economists or....the depths are shallow in a sound byte world.

It's not like they can't hire or consult with business people or economists.

I think its a matter of philosophy, attitude and who they think they're working for - not that they don't know what they're doing etc.

I think that's a cop-out much like when folks say they're all the same and equally bad for the country when the actual truth is there's a world of difference in the economic performance of the major parties in regards to the living standards of the American people.

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Old 01-13-2014, 06:21 PM   #30
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So you use a progressive website to defend a progressive program.
I gave you a link to the actual law from a govt. website. Who do you think is telling the truth?
Not to mention so much said about the ACA to sell it to the people have been lies, so they don't have a very good track record.
Lie 1. This bill will not have any new taxes.
The Supreme court says the only way the penalty is legal is if it is a tax. So now IT IS a tax.
Lie 2. If you like your current health Ins. and doctor you can keep it.
Didn't take long for that to be proven a lie.
Many people can't afford loosing even 63 per year in these times, but that is a pittance to you guys.
By the way where did they come up with that number?
Quote:
Finally, risk corridors are another temporary program meant to prevent premiums from skyrocketing during Obamacares nascent years.
Now show me IN THE BILL where that is only for the first 3 years like your progressive site suggests. I noticed they didn't cite any sources for that statement from the bill itself.

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Old 01-13-2014, 06:25 PM   #31
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BTW I will reiterate ****MY**** position that I gave you several years ago with the FIRST bill, which I DID read cover to cover. EVERY one of my predictions that I made up to about 2019 has come TRUE! So maybe you should listen. HECK, even the one I am about to tell you is now *********FACT********** for MILLIONS of people!

OK, so is there a bailout for the healthcare industry or insurance? In the original bill, and apparently the current one, *****NOPE*****! Will the insurance companies go bankrupt? YEP! So do they have plans for what to do if the insurance companies go bankrupt? YEP! So WHAT is the plan? EASY! It IS in the original bill, and they have ALREADY started implementing it! They switch people to medicare and/or medicaid!

THAT is the "single payer plan" they claimed that they never provided for and always said they wanted! EVEN people that can pay, like Ted Cruz, are finding that ACA is forcing at least SOME family members to the other plans! IRONICALLY, they tend to be the YOUNGER ones. Is it mere coincidence that these are PRECISELY the ones the insurance companies need to offset the new burdens from the "pre existing conditions OK requirement"?

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Old 01-13-2014, 06:34 PM   #32
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Default Re: USA Yearly National Deficit Numbers Declining...

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Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post
I did check it out and it sounded omninus so I decided to see if there was another take on it and here's what I found.

Debunking The Latest Obamacare Myth: The 'Insurance Company Bailout' | ThinkProgress

Wow, $63 per year tax for only 3 years will be a massive tax increase on the average taxpayer.

Once again, methinks the town criers and nit-pickers doth protest too much with another hyped-up scare tactic and...

... once again, as far as I'm concerned, the benefits of the law outweigh the drawbacks by leaps and bounds.

Its a very interesting article detailing how some very clever shock absorbers are built into the law to help it through the early years.


Debunking The Latest Obamacare Myth: The 'Insurance Company Bailout' | ThinkProgress
WHERE do you get the $63 from? The article only talks about where a PORTION of the money goes. That it is $63 is actually a LOT!!!!!!!!!! I mean we are talking an average of like $7500! So $63 is NOT $63! $63 is $7500-$63! SO, if all were the same, that is an average cost of $7437! But the FACT is that the current cost is still ZERO, so it is STILL $7500! Why aren't you asking where THAT is going?

Figures I have heard say that if I decide to take the penalty, it will eventually cost me OVER $4000 a YEAR! The "insurance" is WORTHLESS! It would cost me a FORTUNE, and I would likely NEVER see a PENNY in benefits! By contrast, my current insurance costs about what the penalty will be in like 5 years, and I would get EVERY penny back, if I decided to have all my tests. And will the "ACA" policy cover me OUTSIDE of the state? WHAT will it cover? AGAIN, unless I am like runover by a bus and can get FULL recovery after spending tens of thousands of dollars, I won't see a PENNY. Even THEN, the cost is so high, I might as well forget the whole thing.

Steve
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Old 01-13-2014, 06:50 PM   #33
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Once again the only reason for the sequester is that some folks on the hill refuse to get any money (raise revenues) out of the tax code but you don't want to admit it.
They DON'T "GET MONEY"! They STEAL IT! It isn't "raising revenue". It is TAXING TO DEATH! We admit it FINE, we just like using ENGLISH!

Quote:
They've finagled a lot of cuts since 2009 but they simply refuse to raise any revenues.
Name one MEANINGFUL cut!

Quote:
If only one person in the household is receiving any type of aid - the entire household is counted so...
So you are saying a lot of people are ILLEGALLY getting aid?

Quote:
One could easily get the erroneous impression that all 108 million of them are getting a individual check each verse only 101 million people working full time.
You DO realize that the definition of "full time" has been changed, RIGHT!?!?!? SERIOUSLY! They changed it recently. 30hours is now FULL TIME!

It reminds me of the 47% not paying taxes figure cited often by some folks.

Quote:
As a nation we've carried a lot of debt before.
Better times, more people working!

Quote:
From what I've heard, even if its 25 trillion, as long as the economy is growing faster than the national debt - the total national debt is not a problem - we can carry the debt.
The debt is growing, last I heard, an average of over 1.6T a year. You REALLY think the economy is growing that fast? THINK AGAIN! And inflation is going up. Good old STAGFLATION is BACK!

Talking to you I hear two things!
Steve
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Old 01-13-2014, 07:35 PM   #34
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They DON'T "GET MONEY"! They STEAL IT! It isn't "raising revenue". It is TAXING TO DEATH! We admit it FINE, we just like using ENGLISH!



Name one MEANINGFUL cut!



So you are saying a lot of people are ILLEGALLY getting aid?



You DO realize that the definition of "full time" has been changed, RIGHT!?!?!? SERIOUSLY! They changed it recently. 30hours is now FULL TIME!

It reminds me of the 47% not paying taxes figure cited often by some folks.



Better times, more people working!



The debt is growing, last I heard, an average of over 1.6T a year. You REALLY think the economy is growing that fast? THINK AGAIN! And inflation is going up. Good old STAGFLATION is BACK!

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Steve
Steve if we can't even agree that the chart I provided is fairly accurate then I'm not going to engage with you.

You say the last you heard it was 1.6T per year, well that was way back in 2009 when it was 1.4T. Now it's at 680B and is projected at 540B in 2014.

If we can't agree on the chart above as a baseline for a discussion on the national debt then I am not going to engage with you.

I'll just continue to ignore your screeds as I've done in the past and if you think all national taxes are theft etc., maybe you should move to another country or maybe even another planet.

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Old 01-13-2014, 07:48 PM   #35
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Unfortunately, we often elect good politicians - not good businessmen or economists or....the depths are shallow in a sound byte world.
It is sad to know that a Ghenghis Khan would probably never hold public office in democratic countries.
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Old 01-13-2014, 07:55 PM   #36
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Steve if we can't even agree that the chart I provided is fairly accurate
So now it's only fairly accurate?

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Old 01-13-2014, 08:08 PM   #37
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So now it's only fairly accurate?
I had to check to see if I really said that.

I'll change it to accurate and up to date.

If we can't agree on it I'll simply ignore you as you may have noticed I've been doing.

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Old 01-13-2014, 08:45 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post
I had to check to see if I really said that.

I'll change it to accurate and up to date.

If we can't agree on it I'll simply ignore you as you may have noticed I've been doing.
I haven't mentioned before I asked if it was fairly accurate like you said.
By the way how you doing finding the citations for that article from the progressive site?
I just read a few of the comments there and I noticed a pattern.
So I'll ask another question. Why do progressives always feel the need to insult whoever disagrees with they?

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Old 01-13-2014, 08:47 PM   #39
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So you use a progressive website to defend a progressive program.
I gave you a link to the actual law from a govt. website. Who do you think is telling the truth?
Not to mention so much said about the ACA to sell it to the people have been lies, so they don't have a very good track record.
Lie 1. This bill will not have any new taxes.
The Supreme court says the only way the penalty is legal is if it is a tax. So now IT IS a tax.
Lie 2. If you like your current health Ins. and doctor you can keep it.
Didn't take long for that to be proven a lie.
Many people can't afford loosing even 63 per year in these times, but that is a pittance to you guys.
By the way where did they come up with that number?
Now show me IN THE BILL where that is only for the first 3 years like your progressive site suggests. I noticed they didn't cite any sources for that statement from the bill itself.
I quickly found this but this may not be good enough for you. If that's the case then too bad. I don't have time to locate it in the law itself - its a big one.

Once again I'm not going round and round with you regarding the ACA.

ObamaCare Tax: Full List of ObamaCare Taxes

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Old 01-13-2014, 08:52 PM   #40
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I haven't mentioned before I asked if it was fairly accurate like you said.
By the way how you doing finding the citations for that article from the progressive site?
I just read a few of the comments there and I noticed a pattern.
So I'll ask another question. Why do progressives always feel the need to insult whoever disagrees with they?
Sorry, I thought I was talking to Steve and I will ignore the part about progressives insulting people who disagree with us.

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Old 01-13-2014, 09:08 PM   #41
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Sorry, I thought I was talking to Steve and I will ignore the part about progressives insulting people who disagree with us.
Well to be far both sides of the isle do it.
What bugs me the most about it is being called a racist or bigot for not agrreing with everything the pres. does (not saying you have ever done that).

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Old 01-13-2014, 09:17 PM   #42
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I quickly found this but this may not be good enough for you. If that's the case then too bad. I don't have time to locate it in the law itself - its a big one.

Once again I'm not going round and round with you regarding the ACA.

ObamaCare Tax: Full List of ObamaCare Taxes
So then when he said there would be no new taxes, period. Was he lieing?

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Old 01-14-2014, 05:18 AM   #43
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I don't believe that there are 20 politicians on the national stage that are even capable of it.

One side of the aisle subscribes to the economic fallacy that deficit spending is good. That it is the answer to our economic troubles. Spend our way to prosperity. The fault with that approach is that it doesn't work, and no amount of evidence to the contrary even fazes them. If the results aren't showing, then we haven't borrowed and spent enough, and the government hasn't acted the part of Robin Hood effectively enough - if the poor had all the riches' money we'd be in fat city.

On the other hand, the other side has history on its side, but is unable to use because they're either too scared of being demagogued right out of the capitol, or ... there is no 'or'. They're typical politicians in that their only true ideology is reelection.

Every time taxes have been reduced by a significant amount, treasury receipts have increased and the growth rate has jumped.

But here's the biggest problem, and why fiscally responsible politicians (if there is such a thing) rarely make it to Washington D.C.: who's going to vote for Scrooge over Robin Hood?
Everyone can agree with most of your hating on the pols but your economic analysis leaves a lot to be desired.

You folks talk a good economic game but that only works on people who don't do their homework.

You said...

Every time taxes have been reduced by a significant amount, treasury receipts have increased and the growth rate has jumped.


It certainly did not happen when 43 was president from 2000-2008 and it was the worst economic performance by any admin since the great depression.

And this chart conflicts with your statement above.



Story here...
CHART: Since 1950, Lower Top Tax Rates Have Coincided With Weaker Economic Growth | ThinkProgress

BTW, i am not suggesting we go back to 90% top tax rates.


You also said...

One side of the aisle subscribes to the economic fallacy that deficit spending is good. That it is the answer to our economic troubles.

I say...

I hope you're not getting the growth of the yearly deficit and the national debt confused with actual spending by the feds because a lot if people do.

>>>> Economically, this is a consumer society and FYI that means the more people spending money the better it is for the society - economically.

Of course it would be best if everyone had a productive job and the 'real' unemployment rate was like 5% but in the final analysis, in this consumer society it really isn't that important where some of the money comes from - as long as it's being spent and jobs are created and more money is spent, etc.

A Better Economic Track Record:

You also said...

"On the other hand, the other side has history on its side, but is unable to use because they're either too scared of being demagogued right out..."

Are you suggesting that the scrooges have a better historic economic track record than the hoods? (your terms not mine)

If so, nothing could be further from the truth.

The scrooges loose by a country mile when it comes to job growth, GDP growth and amazingly even the stock market. (that surprised me)

BTW...

Two major economic calamities happened (great depression & great recession) happened when a scrooge was POTUS.

The first one happened after 12 consecutive years of a scrooge in the WH and the second calamity happened after scrooges dominated the WH for 20 of 28 years.

The Scrooges Win:

But the scrooges do win when it comes to increases in poverty rate, blowing out the national debt, exacerbating income inequality and looking out for the already wealthy.

Look at this chart since the scrooges dominated the POTUS. (20 of the 28 years before 2009)



Your federal gov hands off, shovel more money at the rich, crush workers economic philosophy got us into the mess we're in right now and it couldn't possibly get this country out of it.

Once again...

The scrooges actual economic track record is abysmal in regards to the living standards of the American people.

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Old 01-14-2014, 05:39 AM   #44
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Default Re: USA Yearly National Deficit Numbers Declining...

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So then when he said there would be no new taxes, period. Was he lieing?

I'm sure he didn't say no new taxes period because the law has at least 20 new taxes built into it.

He's not in charge of how Chief Justice Roberts decided to define the ACA penalty into a tax so he could justify voting to uphold it - which was quite a shocker.

Regarding the so-called lie of "you can keep your insurance if you like it."

Its true for the vast majority of people who already had insurance.

That's it for you, me and the ACA Thom but you can "carry on".

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Old 01-14-2014, 07:20 AM   #45
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Default Re: USA Yearly National Deficit Numbers Declining...

U.S. Posts Record 53B December Surplus on Fannie Mae Payments


http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-0...-payments.html

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Old 01-14-2014, 07:38 AM   #46
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Default Re: USA Yearly National Deficit Numbers Declining...

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So then when he said there would be no new taxes, period. Was he lieing?
Not sure just how accurate the info on obamacarefacts.com are, but this site was put up in 2012 by dog Media Solutions, a web marketing company in Connecticut. And interestingly, the buttons for health care quotes are all...wait for it...affiliate links!!!

Too funny...
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Old 01-14-2014, 09:19 AM   #47
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Default Re: USA Yearly National Deficit Numbers Declining...

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Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post
I'm sure he didn't say no new taxes period because the law has at least 20 new taxes built into it.

He's not in charge of how Chief Justice Roberts decided to define the ACA penalty into a tax so he could justify voting to uphold it - which was quite a shocker.

Regarding the so-called lie of "you can keep your insurance if you like it."

Its true for the vast majority of people who already had insurance.

That's it for you, me and the ACA Thom but you can "carry on".

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Old 01-14-2014, 09:59 AM   #48
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Default Re: USA Yearly National Deficit Numbers Declining...

One of the more interesting facets of the reporting these days is so many people (news anchors, pundits, yakky heads) who referred to the ACA as "Obamacare" openly time after time....are now complaining that using that terminology is "derogatory".

If this mess had been a success - would they say that? Why were they using it themselves prior to the rollout? What's in a name, anyway?

You have to find some humor in this stuff - or it will choke you.


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Old 01-14-2014, 10:09 AM   #49
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Default Re: USA Yearly National Deficit Numbers Declining...

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One of the more interesting facets of the reporting these days is so many people (news anchors, pundits, yakky heads) who referred to the ACA as "Obamacare" openly time after time....are now complaining that using that terminology is "derogatory".

If this mess had been a success - would they say that? Why were they using it themselves prior to the rollout? What's in a name, anyway?

You have to find some humor in this stuff - or it will choke you.
What's also very funny is...

All the Koch Brothers horses and all the Fox News Friends, couldn't stop #44 from getting elected again.



Also funny is how a thread about the US debt situation and national economic theory etc., has morphed into an all too familiar petty attack on the ACA with one person in particular seems to be attempting to get the thread shut down as I suspect that person did with the recent poverty thread.

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Old 01-14-2014, 10:32 AM   #50
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Default Re: USA Yearly National Deficit Numbers Declining...

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What's also very funny is...

All the Koch Brothers horses and all the Fox News Friends, couldn't stop #44 from getting elected again.

Also funny is how a thread about the US debt situation and national economic theory etc., has morphed into an all too familiar petty attack on the ACA with one person in particular seems to be attempting to get the thread shut down as I suspect that person did with the recent poverty thread.
Right TL it's all my fault

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