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What Did Viking Really Find on Mars!!!

by tagiscom
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Yeah, l know that the skeptics will be rolling their eyes by now, but there are some important findings here.

The last being the best one!

Might explain why NASA officials ran around like a chicken with their heads cut off after Viking released it's images?



I did color correct them, but you can actually see cloud details in these ones. It is like pulling teeth to find details this good in Curiosity images!



Next one shows green ground, might be the main reason it spooked them?



More cloud details!

And this image shows something virtually no other image shows. A difference in brightness!

The distant hills are a lot brighter than the foreground ones, a sure sign of Martian clouds!



Then we have this weird thing! :confused:

A curved opening in the rock, with a rock with a white square pattern at the end.

Maybe this is just a rock, but l honestly don't know?

Might explain why NASA officials went nutso, afterwards?


Shane

PS might visit some other Mars missions, the latest Curiosity images, are very thin on anything postworthy! :rolleyes:
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    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      Shane;

      There is a whisp of a cloud, because there is a whisp of an atmosphere.

      The atmosphere is thick enough for a parachute to open. But the clouds you see are the same kind of clouds you see on Earth at 100,000 feet.

      So, what the photo shows, is exactly what NASA says, along with every other astronomer on the planet......

      Mars has a thin atmosphere that is about 1% at dense as ours, at sea level.

      I already feel a pain in my chest.
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      • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

        Shane;

        There is a whisp of a cloud, because there is a whisp of an atmosphere.

        The atmosphere is thick enough for a parachute to open. But the clouds you see are the same kind of clouds you see on Earth at 100,000 feet.

        So, what the photo shows, is exactly what NASA says, along with every other astronomer on the planet......

        Mars has a thin atmosphere that is about 1% at dense as ours, at sea level.

        I already feel a pain in my chest.
        Ok, maybe the distant brighter ground is just overexposure to sunlight?

        And as you are saying the clouds may be high altitude, but if Mars atmosphere is 1% as dense as ours at sea, or ground level, in this case, then according to NASA that would mean that Mars atmosphere should be black!

        It is best to go back to my What is Mars sky color, thread!


        Best to lie down Claude, and avoid this thread for a few days! He, he!


        Shane :rolleyes:
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        • Profile picture of the author Kay King
          NASA officials ran around like a chicken with their heads cut
          I see a couple of sensationalist blogs with this claim - but nothing whatsoever to back it up.

          I found this on a questionable forum: "Nasa is going into panic mode..." but since it was posted by someone named 'Anonymous Coward' I don't put a lot of credence in it.:rolleyes:

          Now THIS is a photo:

          Astrophoto: Quadrantid meteors over the Great Wall.
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          • Profile picture of the author LarryC
            Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

            I see a couple of sensationalist blogs with this claim - but nothing whatsoever to back it up.

            I found this on a questionable forum: "Nasa is going into panic mode..." but since it was posted by someone named 'Anonymous Coward' I don't put a lot of credence in it.:rolleyes:

            Now THIS is a photo:

            Astrophoto: Quadrantid meteors over the Great Wall.
            I know that forum though I haven't been there for a while. Even many people into conspiracy theories distrust them or think it's a disinfo project. But just to clarify, Anonymous Coward is the default name for anyone who posts without registering there.
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  • Profile picture of the author LarryC
    Anyone interested in this topic should check out the claims of Andrew Basiago. No idea if any of it is true (unlike some people, who "know" such things are false just because they sound too outlandish to be true), but he claims to have been part of a secret program that has visited Mars numerous times.

    Andrew D. Basiago the Discovery of Life on Mars
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  • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
    About the video... I guess it never occurred to the video producer that 40+ years in technological advancements might explain the difference in the quality of the photos from Apollo to now.

    And then in a giant leap of some kind, he goes from the "quality" of the new photos to anomalous objects so vague in appearance that he has to explain what we're seeing.

    We see what we want to see sometimes, whether it's there or not.
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  • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
    On the other hand, here's some real proof of life on the moon.

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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill View Post

    Ah ha!
    Saw that pic back in 2005, not sure if it was Russian or NASA. It is an interesting pic.

    We don't know what all Russia has found out. Some, but I'm sure not all of it. I'm sure people at the top know the whole kit and kaboodle and that we don't hear all of it. How much is a question, of course. But............

    Shane - It's been stated openly that there is an atmosphere and clouds - water ice clouds and some other kind of ice clouds, they have also found frozen water at the poles, at the least, and some places where the mudstone is an unmistakable sign of ancient lakes, etc. They have stated openly that there may still be seasonal water on the surface. This was stated upfront and out loud, so I"m not sure exactly why you keep insisting that they are "hiding" the fact there are clouds and water? Maybe they "aren't talking" about it now - because they already did so it's kinda old news and they are on to newer findings?
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    • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
      Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill View Post

      I wanna see the space bunnies again.
      No bunnies this time!

      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      Saw that pic back in 2005, not sure if it was Russian or NASA. It is an interesting pic.

      We don't know what all Russia has found out. Some, but I'm sure not all of it. I'm sure people at the top know the whole kit and kaboodle and that we don't hear all of it. How much is a question, of course. But............

      Shane - It's been stated openly that there is an atmosphere and clouds - water ice clouds and some other kind of ice clouds, they have also found frozen water at the poles, at the least, and some places where the mudstone is an unmistakable sign of ancient lakes, etc. They have stated openly that there may still be seasonal water on the surface. This was stated upfront and out loud, so I"m not sure exactly why you keep insisting that they are "hiding" the fact there are clouds and water? Maybe they "aren't talking" about it now - because they already did so it's kinda old news and they are on to newer findings?

      And true they have stated that, but real clouds that can create rain, no!

      And according to NASA air pressure is so high that liquid water boils away at ground level, unless it is excessively salty. And as said before if air pressure were that high at ground level, there wouldn't be any color in the sky. It would almost be pitch black!!!

      That is what l am getting at, some of the data shared here, contradicts itself!


      Well, l haven't heard anything about water on Mars, apart from NASA officials saying that Mars had water in it's past!

      And saying that some scientists believe there is water flowing on the surface now, is as close as they got!


      Don't understand that last paragraph? If they said that Mars has seasonal water, it would make front page news all over the world, including being thrashed on TV!


      Hopefully you could find the video of when they said that?


      Shane
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      • Profile picture of the author HeySal
        Originally Posted by tagiscom View Post

        No bunnies this time!




        And true they have stated that, but real clouds that can create rain, no!

        And according to NASA air pressure is so high that liquid water boils away at ground level, unless it is excessively salty. And as said before if air pressure were that high at ground level, there wouldn't be any color in the sky. It would almost be pitch black!!!

        That is what l am getting at, some of the data shared here, contradicts itself!


        Well, l haven't heard anything about water on Mars, apart from NASA officials saying that Mars had water in it's past!

        And saying that some scientists believe there is water flowing on the surface now, is as close as they got!


        Don't understand that last paragraph? If they said that Mars has seasonal water, it would make front page news all over the world, including being thrashed on TV!


        Hopefully you could find the video of when they said that?


        Shane
        Shane - -what is contradictory is you saying that they say there's no/little atomosphere then stating that the "air pressure" is so strong that water boils before falling. Um....... Read that again, would ya please? Air pressure - atmosphere. Are you sure you are reading right - or if reading a translation, the translator translated correctly. I know some "rocket" scientists are arrogant and feel that most of us are no more than simians who've been taught elaborate tricks, but to make that much of a stupid contradiction is unlikely.

        As far as links. I dunno - go check out my old newsletters from 2005-6. The archive is on the bottom of them.

        Here's some raw facts for you, though (and they aren't hidden anywhere).

        Note about atmosphere - it's about the same as earth's at around 35 miles in altitude. Don't forget, too, that air compresses in cold. Know how your tires go low suddenly when it hits around 20 below zero, but they are fine again once temp goes back up to zero? Well Mars is cold - and it also has around a third of the gravity earth does. Still - crank Mars up about 60 degrees and you'd see more air pressure.

        Also note - wind speeds? Wind means atmosphere. If there's nothing to blow, there is no wind.
        It doesn't rain because it's so cold. Nothing on mars is evaporating. Again - warm that place up a tad and you might end up with rain.


        Surface pressure: 6.36 mb at mean radius (variable from 4.0 to 8.7 mb depending on season)
        [6.9 mb to 9 mb (Viking 1 Lander site)]
        Surface density: ~0.020 kg/m3
        Scale height: 11.1 km
        Total mass of atmosphere: ~2.5 x 1016 kg
        Average temperature: ~210 K (-63 C)
        Diurnal temperature range: 184 K to 242 K (-89 to -31 C) (Viking 1 Lander site)
        Wind speeds: 2-7 m/s (summer), 5-10 m/s (fall), 17-30 m/s (dust storm) (Viking Lander sites)
        Mean molecular weight: 43.34 g/mole
        Atmospheric composition (by volume):
        Major : Carbon Dioxide (CO2) - 95.32% ; Nitrogen (N2) - 2.7%
        Argon (Ar) - 1.6%; Oxygen (O2) - 0.13%; Carbon Monoxide (CO) - 0.08%
        Minor (ppm): Water (H2O) - 210; Nitrogen Oxide (NO) - 100; Neon (Ne) - 2.5;
        Hydrogen-Deuterium-Oxygen (HDO) - 0.85; Krypton (Kr) - 0.3;
        Xenon (Xe) - 0.08

        Frankly, to me it sounds like you are getting a mix of data from NASA and/or Russia mixed with info from someone's 1950's high school science book. Serious.
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        • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
          Originally Posted by HeySal View Post


          Note about atmosphere - it's about the same as earth's at around 35 miles in altitude. Don't forget, too, that air compresses in cold. Know how your tires go low suddenly when it hits around 20 below zero, but they are fine again once temp goes back up to zero? Well Mars is cold - and it also has around a third of the gravity earth does. Still - crank Mars up about 60 degrees and you'd see more air pressure.

          Also note - wind speeds? Wind means atmosphere. If there's nothing to blow, there is no wind.
          It doesn't rain because it's so cold. Nothing on mars is evaporating. Again - warm that place up a tad and you might end up with rain.

          Surface pressure: 6.36 mb at mean radius (variable from 4.0 to 8.7 mb depending on season)
          [6.9 mb to 9 mb (Viking 1 Lander site)]
          Surface density: ~0.020 kg/m3
          Scale height: 11.1 km
          Total mass of atmosphere: ~2.5 x 1016 kg
          Average temperature: ~210 K (-63 C)
          Diurnal temperature range: 184 K to 242 K (-89 to -31 C) (Viking 1 Lander site)
          Wind speeds: 2-7 m/s (summer), 5-10 m/s (fall), 17-30 m/s (dust storm) (Viking Lander sites)
          Mean molecular weight: 43.34 g/mole
          Atmospheric composition (by volume):
          Major : Carbon Dioxide (CO2) - 95.32% ; Nitrogen (N2) - 2.7%
          Argon (Ar) - 1.6%; Oxygen (O2) - 0.13%; Carbon Monoxide (CO) - 0.08%
          Minor (ppm): Water (H2O) - 210; Nitrogen Oxide (NO) - 100; Neon (Ne) - 2.5;
          Hydrogen-Deuterium-Oxygen (HDO) - 0.85; Krypton (Kr) - 0.3;
          Xenon (Xe) - 0.08

          Frankly, to me it sounds like you are getting a mix of data from NASA and/or Russia mixed with info from someone's 1950's high school science book. Serious.

          THE 1% ATMOSPHERE First, we know ICE and weather exist on the planet. If the atmosphere is actually 1% that of earth, any ice would have boiled away or just evaporated. Water BOILS AWAY at room temperature well before reaching .01 atmosphere (1 %.) For all practical purposes, .01 atmospheres is a VACUUM to water's boiling point and to air-breathing life-forms.........
          Its all here! Well the rest of it!

          The 1% air pressure, doesn't stack up! :rolleyes:

          What NASA Isn't Telling You About Mars

          And for the record since Mars has a blue sky, a high oxygen content is also present, (a blue sky's color is mainly caused by oxygen molecules in the atmosphere)! Certainly by at least 20%, (which is enough for life)!

          Just because an opinionated scientist or Discovery Channel program says this and that about Mars, doesn't mean it is true!

          I think we have learned that, from the man made GW, bubble!


          Shane
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    • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      Saw that pic back in 2005, not sure if it was Russian or NASA. It is an interesting pic.

      We don't know what all Russia has found out. Some, but I'm sure not all of it. I'm sure people at the top know the whole kit and kaboodle and that we don't hear all of it. How much is a question, of course. But............

      Shane - It's been stated openly that there is an atmosphere and clouds - water ice clouds and some other kind of ice clouds, they have also found frozen water at the poles, at the least, and some places where the mudstone is an unmistakable sign of ancient lakes, etc. They have stated openly that there may still be seasonal water on the surface. This was stated upfront and out loud, so I"m not sure exactly why you keep insisting that they are "hiding" the fact there are clouds and water? Maybe they "aren't talking" about it now - because they already did so it's kinda old news and they are on to newer findings?
      This little fellow is an inch tall. Quite a few you-tube vids about tiny little humans walking about on Mars. Go look (think they are probably from one guy) Everyone knows that the only life on Mars is fluffy Bunny Rabbits!
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Shane, sigh.

    A sky isn't blue because oxygen turns it blue - it's the size of the molecules that make a sky blue. The size of an oxygen molecule bounces the blue waves/particles. Other molecules can bounce blue light, too. Did you think we have sunsets because oxygen disappears? We get it because the cross view of the horizon contains more molecules, so there's more bounce red light rays.

    Second - Mars' atmosphere is NOT 1%. It's 1% of EARTH'S atmosphere. The average atmosphere at the surface (depending on the temperature at the time) is ~0.020 kg/m3. That's a bit of difference between that and 1% atmosphere. Mars' atmosphere at ground level is about equal to ours at 35 miles up. That is NOT 1%. Get it?

    I don't know where your quote came from but it's garbage. The person doesn't even know how sky color is formed. What I am showing you comes from NASA.
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    • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      Shane, sigh.

      A sky isn't blue because oxygen turns it blue - it's the size of the molecules that make a sky blue. The size of an oxygen molecule bounces the blue waves/particles. Other molecules can bounce blue light, too. Did you think we have sunsets because oxygen disappears? We get it because the cross view of the horizon contains more molecules, so there's more bounce red light rays.

      Second - Mars' atmosphere is NOT 1%. It's 1% of EARTH'S atmosphere. The average atmosphere at the surface (depending on the temperature at the time) is ~0.020 kg/m3. That's a bit of difference between that and 1% atmosphere. Mars' atmosphere at ground level is about equal to ours at 35 miles up. That is NOT 1%. Get it?

      I don't know where your quote came from but it's garbage. The person doesn't even know how sky color is formed. What I am showing you comes from NASA.

      Ok, l will leave the sky color up in the air, eventhough what you are saying is all the things l have found that seriously look like living things on Mars are rocks?

      If that is true, then NASA should be able to explain the white cotton type flowing things on Mars that seriously look like a plant of some kind, etc, to be a rock?

      And the Dinosaur or lizard, that likely couldn't exist with 1.6% oxygen atmosphere?

      Etc, etc!

      Not to mention the Methane experiment, that shows something is alive down there!

      And the truckload of green stuff all over the planet?


      No volcanic activity is present, (half dozen satellites have tried).


      Yep, l meant 1% of ours, that raises many issues!

      As you are saying this persons data is flawed, (just did some research on the 35,000 feet air pressure thing).

      But water boiling away at 35,000 feet is still valid!

      NASA may say that water is there, (at least in a third party way online somewhere) but if, water boils away at that pressure, then anything on Mars apart from exotic chemicals and salty water couldn't exist on the surface!

      Which goes against the truckload of images l found showing water flowing on the surface. Maybe some is salty, etc, but not all!

      Then we have this...

      Dust devils require a certain pressure to form, and they exist on both Earth and Mars. If Mars has almost no atmospheric pressure, the low differences between ambient air pressure and dust devil core pressures shouldn’t be able to lift the dust on Mars. Therefore, the pressure on Mars may be higher than is reported. Errors in reporting may be due to problems associated with unit conversion or lander equipment design.
      Gedanken Report

      Maybe NASA can find the reason for this, but if their surface data is accurate, then providing accurate color images or showing the green surface anomaly shouldn't be an issue!

      Or avioding anything interesting on the surface! NASA scientists can't be 100% sure that the statue was natural!

      If this was BS free, they would have thought lets take a closer look! Not, its nothing, lets keep going, and avoid something more interesting later on! :rolleyes:


      I mean Curiosity driving past a possible stream????? If intelligent people were controlling the rover they should have made a straight line for that, just to see what it is, etc.......



      Still seems that some of NASA's data is dodgy or inaccurate!


      Shane

      This is the closest l could find online, about NASA and water on the surface!

      "The flows are not dark because of being wet," McEwen said. "They are dark for some other reason."
      http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/MR...o20110804.html

      Still not commenting on more obvious images of water flows, and holding back on an all out announcement! What l expected!
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Shane - a lot of what you see as flora and fauna are just too damned pixelated, or my eyes are not good enough, to be able to make one iota of judgement on them. There was one of something that looked just like a mouse - I saw it in better detail elsewhere, and I'll be damned if it didn't look like a mouse. Now THAT is something that I don't believe they'd think we were ready to hear about just yet and would hide. Just like the pic here in this thread. Tell me that doesn't look pretty well human. It does. Is it? Who knows.

    I also know that the Russians have pics that look much more like shots of civilizations than we have. Past - present, who knows. For some reason all we are getting in the US is pics of desert and rock. They admit to clouds and water...........and I can tell some of the rock is agate/jasper. I'm well known for being able to spot agate, even at a distance.

    Since we're not being told much, whether there is life or not, is something we can't say for sure yet. Whether there was in the past - Russia says yes, US says "I dunno".

    I will say this, though. Forget NASA pics - they're pretty dull, pixilated, etc. Go find a Russian site and look over their pics. They've got all the juicy ones. I just went back to my site and found I've taken the "Mars" section offline, but there still might be some of the Russian stuff hanging around my newsletters here and there. Much more enticing shots than NASA. I'm sure if you google around some you can find at least some of them.
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    • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      Shane - a lot of what you see as flora and fauna are just too damned pixelated, or my eyes are not good enough, to be able to make one iota of judgement on them. There was one of something that looked just like a mouse - I saw it in better detail elsewhere, and I'll be damned if it didn't look like a mouse. Now THAT is something that I don't believe they'd think we were ready to hear about just yet and would hide. Just like the pic here in this thread. Tell me that doesn't look pretty well human. It does. Is it? Who knows.

      I also know that the Russians have pics that look much more like shots of civilizations than we have. Past - present, who knows. For some reason all we are getting in the US is pics of desert and rock. They admit to clouds and water...........and I can tell some of the rock is agate/jasper. I'm well known for being able to spot agate, even at a distance.

      Since we're not being told much, whether there is life or not, is something we can't say for sure yet. Whether there was in the past - Russia says yes, US says "I dunno".

      I will say this, though. Forget NASA pics - they're pretty dull, pixilated, etc. Go find a Russian site and look over their pics. They've got all the juicy ones. I just went back to my site and found I've taken the "Mars" section offline, but there still might be some of the Russian stuff hanging around my newsletters here and there. Much more enticing shots than NASA. I'm sure if you google around some you can find at least some of them.
      True some are pixulated, (fauna) but some that are better detailed, seriously don't look like rocks!


      The human because of the coloring, l believe to be a statue, probably iron, (rusting).

      Any humans on Mars tend to wear a white T-shirt!

      I am glad that you are open about possible life, or not cementing the 1% of Earths atmosphere, as fact!

      Cant have life with 100 ohms, at ground level.


      I did go into Russian pictures, but didn't' get very far with it!

      But l will take another look!

      I probably won't look into Spirit, Opportunity, since most of their images are pretty blurry. Might look into Pathfinder since they have great images of algae, etc.

      NASA does admit to clouds, but only high altitude, and water in the past; but it seems we have to tie a NASA official into a chair with a cattle prod, to get them to give us a straight answer about the water!

      Probably because of the air pressure issue, (or cover story)!:rolleyes:


      Shane
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Can't have earth life without 100 ohms. Who knows what can develop elsewhere under different conditions. Look at some of the metal minerals that we have in our system. Who's to say that elsewhere a body would be composed with more such elements and less liquid? We have no idea of the limitations of life - only what the limitations are in our world. We project our knowledge of life on everything, because it's all we know. We know how different chemicals and minerals act here at home, but are there other combinations that can result? If we can't tell what consciousness is, how can we know for sure? What if life elsewhere could eat the very soil (as bacteria here do) and excrete a coating over their bodies like the exoskeleton of our crustacean sea life rendering it the ability to live in very little or very strong atmospheric pressure? We like to think we know everything..........we know very little. Almost everything we call "knowledge" is purely conjecture unless we can study it in a laboratory.

    I'm not going to call anyone completely wrong about anything going on anywhere. I have opinions about things - space, metaphysics, pictures, theories, etc. But I haven't got answers except remedial ones such as in matters such as the difference between a 1% atmosphere not being the same as 1% of Earth's atmosphere. Those two things are different, at least on Mars. It might be true on different planets of different sizes, temperature, and gravity.
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    • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      Can't have earth life without 100 ohms. Who knows what can develop elsewhere under different conditions. Look at some of the metal minerals that we have in our system. Who's to say that elsewhere a body would be composed with more such elements and less liquid? We have no idea of the limitations of life - only what the limitations are in our world. We project our knowledge of life on everything, because it's all we know. We know how different chemicals and minerals act here at home, but are there other combinations that can result? If we can't tell what consciousness is, how can we know for sure? What if life elsewhere could eat the very soil (as bacteria here do) and excrete a coating over their bodies like the exoskeleton of our crustacean sea life rendering it the ability to live in very little or very strong atmospheric pressure? We like to think we know everything..........we know very little. Almost everything we call "knowledge" is purely conjecture unless we can study it in a laboratory.

      I'm not going to call anyone completely wrong about anything going on anywhere. I have opinions about things - space, metaphysics, pictures, theories, etc. But I haven't got answers except remedial ones such as in matters such as the difference between a 1% atmosphere not being the same as 1% of Earth's atmosphere. Those two things are different, at least on Mars. It might be true on different planets of different sizes, temperature, and gravity.
      Yes, l hear you, but for me if l see what looks like a rabbit or rat, then l will assume that their internal systems are relatively similar to our ones, (apart from a different gravity tolorence).

      If a Martian rabbit, has the choice of being on a 100 ohms planet, and developing a very high salt, blood system to cope, or evolve on a planet like Mars, which has a much higher ohms, l would go with the latter.

      I would suspect that if Mars has an ohms similar to ours, then liquid water, (Mars Curiosity Stealth Mission, found another creek) could easily handle small animals.

      But if NASA is right then algae would probably be it. As you are probably aware algae grows albeit briefly in Death Vallay, so l wouldn't put it past it!

      But with mounting evidence for liquid water on Mars surface, l will go with NASA fiddling with their data, and ohms being closer to 1035!

      But that is just me, best that everyone just look at all available evidence and make up their own minds!

      All available evidence meaning, putting fear and your TV Mars series on the top shelf, and look into everything.


      After all how scary can a martian rabbit be????



      Shane

      PS bury War of the Worlds! He, he! :rolleyes:
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