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UN 'wants North Korean regime crimes punished'

by David Braybrooke
53 replies
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Despite our Dennis Rodman's seeming endorsement of North Korea, the UN has other ideas:
A year-long UN inquiry into rights abuses in North Korea is due to be published, and is expected to urge punishment for systematic violations by the state.

A panel of experts mandated by the UN's Human Rights Council said North Koreans had suffered "unspeakable atrocities".

The panel heard evidence of torture, enslavement, sexual violence, severe political repression and other crimes.

Testimony to the panel has included an account of a woman forced to drown her own baby, children imprisoned from birth and starved, and families tortured for watching a foreign soap opera.
(Please, no jokes about the torture value of foreign soap operas.)

BBC News - UN 'wants North Korean regime crimes punished'
  • Profile picture of the author socialentry
    The DPRK needs to prepare itself

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  • Profile picture of the author socialentry
    Look like Dennis Rodman's overtures for peace has failed as the american people reject their own hero

    Shall we prepare for nuclear war?
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by socialentry View Post

      Look like Dennis Rodman's overtures for peace has failed as the american people reject their own hero

      Shall we prepare for nuclear war?
      Who says dennis rodman is AN american hero, let alone THE!?!?!?!? GIVE ME A BREAK!

      Actually, there IS talk about subtle pressure to get the North to disarm. As I recall, CHINA is planning to help. Long term, Korea would be better off if the reunite and have the south as the government.

      Still, I have lost track of all the countries teetering on absolute disaster.

      TODAY, according to DW headlines?

      1. Nigeria... A major aggressor that has been taunting an innocent minority they HATE has again killed several dozen. It is likely to be even MORE of a terrorist stronghold.
      2. Ukraine.... A minor skirmish by protesters has stopped, but it likely doesn't mean things are better.
      3. Croatia may start to have more problems again, as a major labor deal broke down.
      4. Germany is apparently VERY upset at how they were treated, and plans to retaliate against the US and UK, IN KIND.
      5. IRAQ... The major opponent to the Iraqi PM has effectively declared himself DEAD as far as that goes. He retired, disbanded all, and swore that he will not interfere or support anyone that does.
      6. EGYPT... The terrorists I spoke of in #1? Well, some of them blew up a bus in eqypt.

      KEEP in mind, that they have a number of headlines about the olympics today!!!!!

      Steve
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      • Profile picture of the author KenThompson
        Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

        4. Germany is apparently VERY upset at how they were treated, and plans to retaliate against the US and UK, IN KIND.
        Steve
        What's that all about? Don't keep up with as much as I should.

        Thanks,

        Ken
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        • Profile picture of the author seasoned
          Originally Posted by KenThompson View Post

          What's that all about? Don't keep up with as much as I should.

          Thanks,

          Ken
          The US has been, in various ways, even bugging MERKEL, Germany's Chancellor! They have not been very open. SO, Germany now plans to have COUNTER espionage! In trying to find a reference to this now, I found one in RT that references even a popular german source, so that makes three right there, though google had over a million hits.

          http://rt.com/news/germany-counter-e...ge-allies-316/

          Although the LEAST horrible of the items I mentioned, it is bad because they ARE an ally that has generally been good to te US and the rest of europe, despite how some in places like greece may feel.

          Anyway, I saw this coming, and was STILL surprised wen I saw it reported last night. The RT article I am referencing is only 15 hours old.

          Steve
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      • Profile picture of the author hardraysnight
        Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

        Who says dennis rodman is AN american hero, let alone THE!?!?!?!? GIVE ME A BREAK!

        Actually, there IS talk about subtle pressure to get the North to disarm. As I recall, CHINA is planning to help. Long term, Korea would be better off if the reunite and have the south as the government.

        Still, I have lost track of all the countries teetering on absolute disaster.

        TODAY, according to DW headlines?

        1. Nigeria... A major aggressor that has been taunting an innocent minority they HATE has again killed several dozen. It is likely to be even MORE of a terrorist stronghold.
        2. Ukraine.... A minor skirmish by protesters has stopped, but it likely doesn't mean things are better.
        3. Croatia may start to have more problems again, as a major labor deal broke down.
        4. Germany is apparently VERY upset at how they were treated, and plans to retaliate against the US and UK, IN KIND.
        5. IRAQ... The major opponent to the Iraqi PM has effectively declared himself DEAD as far as that goes. He retired, disbanded all, and swore that he will not interfere or support anyone that does.
        6. EGYPT... The terrorists I spoke of in #1? Well, some of them blew up a bus in eqypt.

        KEEP in mind, that they have a number of headlines about the olympics today!!!!!

        Steve
        so who is THE american hero - fidel castro?
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        • Profile picture of the author seasoned
          Originally Posted by hardraysnight View Post

          so who is THE american hero - fidel castro?
          I can't even think of one, but CERTAINLY not castro! Castro just persecutes a lot of people, tries to spread communism, and once tried to start WWIII. So HOW could castro EVER be considered an american hero?

          Steve
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        • Profile picture of the author socialentry
          Originally Posted by hardraysnight View Post

          so who is THE american hero - fidel castro?
          my thaughts exactly, a lot of people are trying to derail the peace process with the DPRK by belittling their one-time champion.

          That is why the DPRK is always ready.

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          • Profile picture of the author David Braybrooke
            Originally Posted by socialentry View Post

            my thaughts exactly, a lot of people are trying to derail the peace process with the DPRK by belittling their one-time champion.[/IMG]
            Maybe Dennis Rodman could help out with the peace process? Celebrity basketball drag contests. Fundraisers to float the vision! Hey, I'm a possibility thinker here.

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            • Profile picture of the author socialentry
              Originally Posted by David Braybrooke View Post

              Maybe Dennis Rodman could help out with the peace process? Celebrity basketball drag contests. Fundraisers to float the vision! Hey, I'm a possibility thinker here.

              That's the spirit.
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  • Profile picture of the author socialentry
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  • Profile picture of the author bravo75
    North Korea should not only be punished, but the entire country should be disassembled.
    NATO, Russia and Chinese forces should eradicate the regime. A democratic government is then to be installed.
    Huge corporations should then move in and mine every last mineral that is buried under the mountains there. Hundreds of Billions of $ worth.

    This would give the North Korean people the prosperity and freedom they deserve.

    Every member of the Kim Yong regime has to be put on trial for crimes against humanity.
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    • Profile picture of the author David Maschke
      Originally Posted by bravo75 View Post

      Huge corporations should then move in and mine every last mineral that is buried under the mountains there. Hundreds of Billions of $ worth
      Billions of dollars of minerals?

      Something needs to be done about these terrible atrocities!
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    • Profile picture of the author Thomas
      Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

      4. Germany is apparently VERY upset at how they were treated, and plans to retaliate against the US and UK, IN KIND.
      Originally Posted by KenThompson View Post

      What's that all about? Don't keep up with as much as I should.
      Germany is taking counter-espionage measures against its allies, including the US and Britain, in response to revelations about widespread US spying on them. I believe they also intend to more closely monitor US citizens within their jurisdiction (on the assumtion that they are spies).

      Originally Posted by bravo75 View Post

      NATO, Russia and Chinese forces should eradicate the regime.
      Neither the Russians, nor the Chinese, care much for the North Korean government but, with Beijing a few hours to the left, and the Russian Pacific Fleet a few hours to the right, neither country would seem likely to tolerate an attack/invasion of North Korea by the Western powers (which wouldn't be NATO though... it wouldn't sanction such an attack anyway, expect under some pretty particular circumstances).

      Neither country (China/Russia) trusts the US or it's allies much anyway... so expecting them to have what they would see as a US puppet state on their doorstep (particularly the Chinese) would be like expecting the US to sit by an ignore a Chinese or Russian attack/invasion of Canada or Mexico. It simply won't happen.

      Originally Posted by bravo75 View Post

      Huge corporations should then move in and mine every last mineral that is buried under the mountains there. Hundreds of Billions of $ worth. This would give the North Korean people the prosperity and freedom they deserve.
      Huge corporations having the interests of ordinary people at heart? Yes... seems likely.
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      • Profile picture of the author candoit2
        Originally Posted by Thomas View Post

        would be like expecting the US to sit by an ignore a Chinese or Russian attack/invasion of Canada or Mexico. It simply won't happen
        If Canadian bacon were to ever fall into the hands of Russia or China, I shudder to think of what the wrath of a bacon deprived America would look like.
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    • Profile picture of the author derekwong28
      Originally Posted by bravo75 View Post

      North Korea should not only be punished, but the entire country should be disassembled.
      NATO, Russia and Chinese forces should eradicate the regime. A democratic government is then to be installed.
      Huge corporations should then move in and mine every last mineral that is buried under the mountains there. Hundreds of Billions of $ worth.

      This would give the North Korean people the prosperity and freedom they deserve.

      Every member of the Kim Yong regime has to be put on trial for crimes against humanity.
      This would be the ideal outcome but it won't happen for a number of reasons. Firstly, you don't know how millions of heavily armed and brain washed N. Koreans will react when they are invaded. Secondly, it is likely that the N. Koreans will request troops from China should they descend into disorder. S. Korean and US troop will probably go in then and this is when things really get unpredictable.
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      • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
        Originally Posted by derekwong28 View Post

        This would be the ideal outcome but it won't happen for a number of reasons.

        Firstly, you don't know how millions of heavily armed and brain washed N. Koreans will react when they are invaded.

        Secondly, it is likely that the N. Koreans will request troops from China should they descend into disorder.

        S. Korean and US troop will probably go in then and this is when things really get unpredictable.

        And who's willing to take the chance that NK's nukes won't work?
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      • Profile picture of the author seasoned
        Originally Posted by derekwong28 View Post

        This would be the ideal outcome but it won't happen for a number of reasons. Firstly, you don't know how millions of heavily armed and brain washed N. Koreans will react when they are invaded. Secondly, it is likely that the N. Koreans will request troops from China should they descend into disorder. S. Korean and US troop will probably go in then and this is when things really get unpredictable.
        You have to realize that CHINA is ALSO a SOVEREIGN nation! They have their OWN concerns! The communists wanted to take over korea and had NK fight the battle. It was never over, and brought a formidable foe to their shores, so they STOPPED. Frankly, if I were china, I would likely have licked my wounds, withdrawn support, and tried to facilitate a smooth regression LONG ago. Then again, I never would have done it in the first place.

        CHINA is FINALLY starting to reconsider. NK has to realize that one day, China MUST say NO! That day may be CLOSE! And as powerful as that family thinks it is, if they lose china, they lose a LOT. As I recall, China is backing at least real PEACE.

        Steve
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      • Profile picture of the author seasoned
        Originally Posted by derekwong28 View Post

        This would be the ideal outcome but it won't happen for a number of reasons. Firstly, you don't know how millions of heavily armed and brain washed N. Koreans will react when they are invaded. Secondly, it is likely that the N. Koreans will request troops from China should they descend into disorder. S. Korean and US troop will probably go in then and this is when things really get unpredictable.
        The US has let the NK do a LOT that they likely wouldn't have, but they want China to STAY OUT of hostilities. So if NK got chinese enforcements the US would likely honor the LETTER of the agreement. There is an area that NEITHER side is to cross in any way. If either side does, there may be retaliation from the other. I emphasized letter, because NK has TECHNICALLY crossed that line a few times. The us let them as long as things didn't get too threatening. Luckily, they didn't get too threatening. The US sent them a warning and a sign that they were serious though.

        I would disagree with TL in only one way here. It DOESN'T MATTER if the nuclear bombs are garbage that won't go nuclear. The very fact that they EXIST, working or not, is a MAJOR threat. You want someone that knows what they are doing to dismantle and dispose of them properly. Anything else is foolhardy. HECK, if they were CONVENTIONAL it would be almost as bad.

        Steve
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        • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
          Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

          The US has let the NK do a LOT that they likely wouldn't have, but they want China to STAY OUT of hostilities. So if NK got chinese enforcements the US would likely honor the LETTER of the agreement. There is an area that NEITHER side is to cross in any way. If either side does, there may be retaliation from the other. I emphasized letter, because NK has TECHNICALLY crossed that line a few times. The us let them as long as things didn't get too threatening. Luckily, they didn't get too threatening. The US sent them a warning and a sign that they were serious though.

          I would disagree with TL in only one way here. It DOESN'T MATTER if the nuclear bombs are garbage that won't go nuclear. The very fact that they EXIST, working or not, is a MAJOR threat. You want someone that knows what they are doing to dismantle and dispose of them properly. Anything else is foolhardy. HECK, if they were CONVENTIONAL it would be almost as bad.

          Steve
          My point is they will never be invaded by anyone because of the nukes.
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          • Profile picture of the author seasoned
            Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

            My point is they will never be invaded by anyone because of the nukes.
            YEAH, And I never said they would. I simply said that China may ask them to reunify or some such the next time they even ask for another gun. If so, the regime will lose a LOT of power, and the PUBLIC may effectively SURRENDER!

            They have TWO things going for them.

            1. FOREIGN SUPPORT, primarily from CHINA!
            2. NUKES, and other weapons!(Which the regime controls INDIRECTLY!)

            So it is STILL possible that the regime could be overthrown, and there could be peace, without ONE shot or any threats. But it has to really start with a loss of foreign support.

            Steve
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by bravo75 View Post

      North Korea should not only be punished, but the entire country should be disassembled.
      NATO, Russia and Chinese forces should eradicate the regime. A democratic government is then to be installed.
      Huge corporations should then move in and mine every last mineral that is buried under the mountains there. Hundreds of Billions of $ worth.

      This would give the North Korean people the prosperity and freedom they deserve.

      Every member of the Kim Yong regime has to be put on trial for crimes against humanity.
      Installing a new government is HARD, EXPENSIVE, and just DUMB! Just let SOUTH korea take over! It could be much like with Germany and berlin. Fixing the economy, and behavior of NK would be difficult as it has to be QUICK, but too quick could cause a social or economic disaster. But it could be done. The weapons would have to be disposed of, and soldiers somehow vetted. But all of these are problems similar to what you would have with two governments. You simply don't want to hurt the south much and get NK and SK to meld into something that is simply a bigger and better Korea.

      If they really DO have such rich deposits, the soldiers could help out with THAT! It would be a good way to reapply some of their talents in a way that they might enjoy and that would help them.

      I agree about that horrible family. It is odd that some can get a empire and almost give it away and be so generous and others may have nothing and strive to be supreme dictator of all and horde bread even when they own the country.

      Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author rwbovee
    It seems the UN has gotten politically motivated lately and should stay neutral.
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    • Profile picture of the author David Braybrooke
      Originally Posted by rwbovee View Post

      It seems the UN has gotten politically motivated lately and should stay neutral.
      They can hardly stay 'neutral' when this is happening!

      A panel of experts mandated by the UN's Human Rights Council said North Koreans had suffered "unspeakable atrocities".

      The panel heard evidence of torture, enslavement, sexual violence, severe political repression and other crimes.

      Testimony to the panel has included an account of a woman forced to drown her own baby, children imprisoned from birth and starved, and families tortured for watching a foreign soap opera.
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      • Profile picture of the author HeySal
        Guys - I didn't say I was surprised we haven't nuked them. What I said is that I'm surprised nobody has assassinated him. I'm surprised a few other world leaders are still walkin' around, too.


        Originally Posted by David Braybrooke View Post

        They can hardly stay 'neutral' when this is happening!
        There's a lot of countries that treat women like livestock...or worse. They are "given away" to whoever at ages our girls are doing silly high school stuff, their genitals are mutilated so they won't stray from the pig forcing sex and pregnancy on her, denied education to be kept dependent, and they are beaten or killed at will.

        How many of the countries that do this can we nuke? Sometimes you have to hope people will wake the heck up and fight for themselves.
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        • Profile picture of the author David Braybrooke
          Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

          Guys - I didn't say I was surprised we haven't nuked them.
          It's too late HeySal, we've already nicknamed you the 'nuking' nature lady.
          A post-feminist version of Rambo in a skirt.
          Now you get on over to North Korea and start dropping a few shells on those varmints!
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          • Profile picture of the author HeySal
            Originally Posted by David Braybrooke View Post

            It's too late HeySal, we've already nicknamed you the 'nuking' nature lady.
            A post-feminist version of Rambo in a skirt.
            Now you get on over to North Korea and start dropping a few shells on those varmints!
            I just did my nails - go drop some drones on em and leave me alone.


            Muad'dib was a fool. For he didn't study game theory, economics and politics like the world leaders of today do. If he did, he would have said, "He who controls the currency pegged to the spice, controls the universe!"
            The function of science fiction is n ot always to predict the future but sometimes to prevent it. ~~ Frank Herbert.
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            Sal
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            • Profile picture of the author seasoned
              Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

              The function of science fiction is n ot always to predict the future but sometimes to prevent it. ~~ Frank Herbert.
              Sometime, it is SCARY how it does so!

              Steve
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            • Profile picture of the author David Braybrooke
              Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

              I just did my nails -
              For the nail gun? (ducking ..)
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        • Profile picture of the author seasoned
          Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

          Guys - I didn't say I was surprised we haven't nuked them. What I said is that I'm surprised nobody has assassinated him. I'm surprised a few other world leaders are still walkin' around, too.




          There's a lot of countries that treat women like livestock...or worse. They are "given away" to whoever at ages our girls are doing silly high school stuff, their genitals are mutilated so they won't stray from the pig forcing sex and pregnancy on her, denied education to be kept dependent, and they are beaten or killed at will.

          How many of the countries that do this can we nuke? Sometimes you have to hope people will wake the heck up and fight for themselves.
          Who knows, I think NK and venezuela BOTH ended up WORSE after their dictators died!

          Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author derekwong28
    TL and Steve,

    I just can't see any good ending at all. It is possible we may look back one day and regret the appeasements made to NK under Clinton and Bush over its nuclear program. It is possible if the program was taken out militarily then, then the regime could have fallen quickly.

    However, S. Korea would never have agreed to that because Seoul was within the range of tens of thousands of N. Korean guns and missiles. This was the same reason why S. Korea did not retaliate when Yeonpyeong was shelled by the North in 2010. However, there were also calculations that an attack on Seoul would not have caused as many casualties as feared. For a start, the S. Korean and US forces will retaliate immediately and take out the N. Korean gun positions as time goes along.
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by derekwong28 View Post

      TL and Steve,

      I just can't see any good ending at all. It is possible we may look back one day and regret the appeasements made to NK under Clinton and Bush over its nuclear program. It is possible if the program was taken out militarily then, then the regime could have fallen quickly.

      However, S. Korea would never have agreed to that because Seoul was within the range of tens of thousands of N. Korean guns and missiles. This was the same reason why S. Korea did not retaliate when Yeonpyeong was shelled by the North in 2010. However, there were also calculations that an attack on Seoul would not have caused as many casualties as feared. For a start, the S. Korean and US forces will retaliate immediately and take out the N. Korean gun positions as time goes along.
      The US HAS had a few weapons that could intercept missles, and they HAVE had technology that could detect a launch even longer. If their ONLY fear was that a city could get hurt, they could simply tell NK "Look, you are now against the US also! If you launch ANYTHING, we will take it as an attack and act in kind. If it was an attack, your own bomb may blow up above you before it even crosses the border. If our missle fails, you will be hit. So please don't fire anything. Just a nice piece of advice!". The missles are relatively low powered, and are conventional. If they sent an atom bomb to SK, and it were hit, most of the radiation would fall on NK, and be THEIR fault!

      The north DID have a legitimate reason to agree with the DMZ. It is an ONGOING TREATY. Any breaking of it could mean the whole country could be obliterated. If not for China and SK being so close, that might have been made clearer by now. I STILL say that losing Chinese support would be a BIG blow!

      Steve
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      • Profile picture of the author derekwong28
        Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

        The US HAS had a few weapons that could intercept missles, and they HAVE had technology that could detect a launch even longer. If their ONLY fear was that a city could get hurt, they could simply tell NK "Look, you are now against the US also! If you launch ANYTHING, we will take it as an attack and act in kind. If it was an attack, your own bomb may blow up above you before it even crosses the border. If our missle fails, you will be hit. So please don't fire anything. Just a nice piece of advice!". The missles are relatively low powered, and are conventional. If they sent an atom bomb to SK, and it were hit, most of the radiation would fall on NK, and be THEIR fault!

        The north DID have a legitimate reason to agree with the DMZ. It is an ONGOING TREATY. Any breaking of it could mean the whole country could be obliterated. If not for China and SK being so close, that might have been made clearer by now. I STILL say that losing Chinese support would be a BIG blow!

        Steve
        Steve, I am talking mainly about artillery here rather than missiles.

        North Korea Can’t Really Turn Seoul Into a “Sea of Fire” | Atlantic Sentinel

        If you retaliate strongly against N. Korea, it may collapse like a pack of cards as in Iraq. But it is also possible that it may not. Again it is possible you may end up with lots of problems in pacifying the country afterwards as in Iraq.
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        • Profile picture of the author seasoned
          Originally Posted by derekwong28 View Post

          Steve, I am talking mainly about artillery here rather than missiles.

          North Korea Can't Really Turn Seoul Into a "Sea of Fire" | Atlantic Sentinel

          If you retaliate strongly against N. Korea, it may collapse like a pack of cards as in Iraq. But it is also possible that it may not. Again it is possible you may end up with lots of problems in pacifying the country afterwards as in Iraq.
          Yeah, it is sad, but the US hasn't tried to win a war, OR properly maintain a good government, for over 50 years. WWII ended up turning out better than anyone could have dreamed, with the major enemies becoming allies, etc... The US DID help out there. But we could probably name over a dozen countries since that have been HURT. Look at IRAN. It used to be an ALLY! It was one we were going to HELP go nuclear! It was one that we had given state of the art FIGHTER JETS to! Did ANYONE find out who the hero was that sabotaged those jets!?!?!? Iraq was a JOKE! The next vote looks like it is RIGGED! And I DID say that whatever is done has to be done QUICKLY! THAT is the trick. It is ALWAYS the trick. Germany had a FAR smaller problem, and they were STILL a bit too slow. I haven't heard anything lately, so I guess that transition is done. But that was one city of MANY!

          I am SHOCKED! I thought it would be far HARDER! North Korea only has HALF as many people as South Korea. With the new resources, new freedom, and the current lower living standard, maybe SK COULD swing it! It would be neat if they could go into NK, and run it almost like another country, with the same border, that would be limited one way or some such. They could sell off the worthless junk, have the military mine, and act as a civilian police force, and gradually raise prices and wages, etc... They could bring it to almost parity with SK, open the border, and treat it as one government. The south would benefit from more resources, and the north would benefit from better technology and a better economy, as well as FREEDOM. It COULD be pretty painless.

          Of course, the problem is getting NK to give up the threats and nukes.

          Steve
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    • Profile picture of the author Hopeless Bromantic
      Originally Posted by derekwong28 View Post

      I just can't see any good ending at all. It is possible we may look back one day and regret the appeasements made to NK under Clinton and Bush over its nuclear program. It is possible if the program was taken out militarily then, then the regime could have fallen quickly.
      There is one possibility for a good ending: establishing a "Korean Union" modeled after the EU. The two nations could have a standardized market and open borders to each other's citizens. China certainly wouldn't object.
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      • Profile picture of the author socialentry
        Originally Posted by Hopeless Bromantic View Post

        There is one possibility for a good ending: establishing a "Korean Union" modeled after the EU. The two nations could have a standardized market and open borders to each other's citizens. China certainly wouldn't object.
        ROFLMAO.



        Well played sir, well played.
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        • Profile picture of the author Hopeless Bromantic
          Originally Posted by socialentry View Post

          ROFLMAO.


          Well played sir, well played.
          I didn't say it was likely, just a possibility for a good ending.

          Kim is probably not worldly enough to figure out what would be in such a deal for him.
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  • Profile picture of the author David Braybrooke
    I once had a cup of tea with this UN 'ex-judge'. His opinion on the North Korean situation is worth a listen.
    ABC NewsRadio - Justice Michael Kirby says there must be a response to UN report on crimes against humanity in North Korea 18/02/2014
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    • Profile picture of the author whateverpedia
      Originally Posted by David Braybrooke View Post

      I once had a cup of tea with this UN 'ex-judge'. His opinion on the North Korean situation is worth a listen.
      ABC NewsRadio - Justice Michael Kirby says there must be a response to UN report on crimes against humanity in North Korea 18/02/2014
      I've never met him, but have heard a lot about him and seen him speak out on a range of issues. For a (former) lawyer, he's a genuinely decent man.

      If I was ever in trouble, and could afford the fees, he's one I'd definitely want defending me.
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      • Profile picture of the author David Braybrooke
        Originally Posted by whateverpedia View Post

        I've never met him, but have heard a lot about him and seen him speak out on a range of issues. For a (former) lawyer, he's a genuinely decent man.

        If I was ever in trouble, and could afford the fees, he's one I'd definitely want defending me.
        Interesting that you say that actually. After meeting the mentioned legal identity and spending a bit of time with him, including the exchanging of several emails, I very clearly came to the conclusion that he definitely is not someone I would ever want representing me for any type of legal matter. Not that he is offering those types of services these days, from what I understand.

        Whereas I could admire and respect his intelligence, instinctively I did not trust him. Being aware that my personal opinion is almost certainly at odds with the public majority, all I can say is that I formed my opinion from a firsthand experience; (our informal meeting was recorded in his guest listings, I signed). No doubt the UN benefits from his professional wisdom; at least I hope I'm right about that much.
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        • Profile picture of the author whateverpedia
          Originally Posted by David Braybrooke View Post

          Interesting that you say that actually. After meeting the mentioned legal identity and spending a bit of time with him, including the exchanging of several emails, I very clearly came to the conclusion that he definitely is not someone I would ever want representing me for any type of legal matter.
          Very interesting. My perception of him is based on his "public face", whereas I suppose yours is based on his "private face".

          It doesn't surprise me too much that he'd have 2 faces, after all he is a lawyer .
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  • Profile picture of the author David Maschke
    North and South Korea are the new "Poland" of this cold war. It is the buffer zone. China and Russia have too much clout in the U.N. No one will spend political capital and energy on this. The status quo will be maintained for the time being.
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    • Profile picture of the author derekwong28
      Originally Posted by David Maschke View Post

      The status quo will be maintained for the time being.
      This is just as bad an outcome as any.

      I can't think of any people who have suffered so much just for the benefit of one family.

      Originally Posted by Hopeless Bromantic View Post

      There is one possibility for a good ending: establishing a "Korean Union" modeled after the EU. The two nations could have a standardized market and open borders to each other's citizens. China certainly wouldn't object.
      Anything that leaves the Kim Dynasty in charge of N. Korea would be a bad ending.
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      • Profile picture of the author David Braybrooke
        Originally Posted by derekwong28 View Post

        This is just as bad an outcome as any.

        I can't think of any people who have suffered so much just for the benefit of one family.
        Well said! Time for change.
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      • Profile picture of the author David Maschke
        Originally Posted by derekwong28 View Post

        This is just as bad an outcome as any.

        I can't think of any people who have suffered so much just for the benefit of one family.
        I agree. I was only forming a hypothesis of how it will likely play out, based on historical observations, which I admit is probably subjective and not objective.

        It may play out differently, world leaders, along with business leaders, have thrown out the old rules and have made their own. It has become an unpredictable world where literally anything can happen.
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    I'm finding it just incredible that between 3 superpowers that know that spoiled little brat of a leader is causing global issues and one of them hasn't just had the kid waxed by now. They do have the stealth capabilities to do so.
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      I'm finding it just incredible that between 3 superpowers that know that spoiled little brat of a leader is causing global issues and one of them hasn't just had the kid waxed by now. They do have the stealth capabilities to do so.
      As I recall, Russia INSTALLED the family! CHINA probably liked the idea, but NOW it is a BURDEN! The US is trying to be careful. Some DUMB mistakes have been made, but I think they want China and Russia to just stay. Don't worry I think things could change soon.

      Steve
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    • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      I'm finding it just incredible that between 3 superpowers that know that spoiled little brat of a leader is causing global issues and one of them hasn't just had the kid waxed by now.

      They do have the stealth capabilities to do so.

      I think not.


      Make a military move on NK and risk one of their nukes getting off or just as bad for China or Russia one of their nukes explodes in the silo etc.?

      That reminds me of when folks say, let the debt ceiling expire. There'll be a rough patch at the beginning but things will turn out fine.

      The NKs claim they can reach LA with an nuclear tipped missile.

      In any event with Russia and China so close to NK, they aren't about to risk anything going wrong with NK's nuke program and I'm sure both have warned the U.S. about making any military moves whatsoever.
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      • Profile picture of the author seasoned
        Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

        I think not.


        Make a military move on NK and risk one of their nukes getting off or just as bad for China or Russia one of their nukes explodes in the silo etc.?

        That reminds me of when folks say, let the debt ceiling expire. There'll be a rough patch at the beginning but things will turn out fine.

        The NKs claim they can reach LA with an nuclear tipped missile.

        In any event with Russia and China so close to NK, they aren't about to risk anything going wrong with NK's nuke program and I'm sure both have warned the U.S. about making any military moves whatsoever.
        I don't think russia or china would have to warn the US. BESIDES, there is international law, and our allies that are there. But NK couldn't win a war with the US. If they tried to send a missle to the US, US missiles, even with 1/3 the speed would probably destroy the NK government before their missles reached their apogee. It would be a mistake to believe that the US, in the 21st century, doesn't have the 19th century technology(updated for the 21st century of course) to counter attack. There ARE some rumors that the us might even be able to hit the missile before it leaves the NK area. If that happens, the fallout could affect the NK and china. It WOULD hit SK also, but what could you do? In such a case, one would hope China would blame NK.

        Did you ever look at the wikipedia accounts of hiroshima? They HEARD of the bombing, and couldn't reach the area by radio or telephone, since it went silent. They figured they would fly over and just say all is clear. They flew over, and before getting within 100 miles were in SHOCK. They circled around in disbelief. They had some guy there and, knowing NOTHING of the construction, efficiency, start date, etc.... he claimed the US could only have 1 or 2 more bombs. UNREAL. Anyway, it said the japanese hoped to ride it out and continue. A few days later, they got the one officially remaining bomb, that was twice as destructive. Yeah, Japan underestimated the US too. But if THAT were all the US could do today, it would be enough.

        Steve
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      • Profile picture of the author Hopeless Bromantic
        Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

        Originally Posted by HeySal

        I'm finding it just incredible that between 3 superpowers that know that spoiled little brat of a leader is causing global issues and one of them hasn't just had the kid waxed by now.

        They do have the stealth capabilities to do so.
        I think not.


        Make a military move on NK and risk one of their nukes getting off or just as bad for China or Russia one of their nukes explodes in the silo etc.?
        I may be misinterpreting, but I think that by "stealth capabilities" Sal meant assassinations, not overt military moves.
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        • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
          Originally Posted by Hopeless Bromantic View Post

          I may be misinterpreting, but I think that by "stealth capabilities" Sal meant assassinations, not overt military moves.

          OK, thanks for clearing that up.

          As far as assassination is concerned we can all hope can't we?
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    • Profile picture of the author derekwong28
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      I'm finding it just incredible that between 3 superpowers that know that spoiled little brat of a leader is causing global issues and one of them hasn't just had the kid waxed by now. They do have the stealth capabilities to do so.
      If the US conducts an air strike, then it is S. Korea and Japan to a lesser extent that would be in line for massive retaliation. Seoul is just 35 miles from the border there are thought to be tens of thousands of artillery pieces pointed at it. A lot of the city could be destroyed within hours with thousands of deaths.

      The nuclear tests carried our by NK so far might not have been completely successful. There are doubts as to whether they have made real weapons. But it is also a fact that the longer you leave things as they are, the more likely that they will have a reliable weapon.

      Russia is probably not that particularly concerned or involved as the others. It will follow China's lead in this matter. China did try earlier to rein in Kim Jon Un but was completely ignored and warned by NK. I don't think they are willing to risk a regime collapse at this stage for many reasons. For one, they lost many people in the Korea war including Mao's son. However, that war was no where as sensitive as the war with Japan during WWII. As in the US, there is little commemoration or emotions about the Korean war. The people in China no longer thinks the Korean war was worth fighting for. They are also scared that they may end up with millions of refugees crossing their border but they do have some resources to deal with it should that happen.
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  • Profile picture of the author David Maschke
    Dictators have their place, that is, if you thought like a world super power.

    NK has no oil, and therefore cannot start selling oil in a currency other than the dollar.

    Just ask Gadaffi or Hussein. Oh wait... you can't. They had plans to sell oil outside of the dollar.

    Muad'dib was a fool. For he didn't study game theory, economics and politics like the world leaders of today do. If he did, he would have said, "He who controls the currency pegged to the spice, controls the universe!"
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