Research: Money makes you mean?

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This social scientist's research shows that there's a correlation between being rich and anti-social tendencies

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJ8Kq1wucsk

Do you agree? Or is there social utility in 'being mean'?
  • Profile picture of the author thunderbird
    Lack of money would make me meaner.
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  • Profile picture of the author David Braybrooke
    Anti-social is my middle name. Come to me riches!
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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    What an IDIOTIC idea! Go to the POOREST parts of the world, or EVEN of "rich countries" and they tend to be MEAN! There are ANGRY people that would as soon KILL you as they would LOOK at you! CONVERSELY, most of the richer areas are FAR nicer.

    f course I would NEVER say that rich means nice, or even that poor means NASTY. I have been to some POOR areas where the people were nice the streets were clean, etc... And I have been to some RICH places where people were known to have gotten there illegally.

    As a rule though, GO AHEAD! GO to poor parts of nigeria, or india, or mexico, or places like harlem in the US, or south central LA, etc... A lot of them are POOR, and SCARY! In the US, HOW do they explain their theory of how RICH=MEAN in light of the POOR in the middle east that work so hard to be EVIL? There are also places like la jolla, even parts of beverly hills, etc... where people are nice. HECK, HOLLYWOOD is broken into parts. Some are HORRIBLE, and other parts are nice. I have heard the same of detroit.

    Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Probably because when people know someone has money they drool on them endlessly trying to get handouts so those with money get sick of them.
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  • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
    Before jumping to any conclusions, I think it wise to consider the
    political/social leanings of this 2012 PhD from Berkeley.

    Also, I think his findings are flawed because in the Monopoly game
    scenario, he assumed the poor behavior is because they are wealthy.
    It could just as easily be that the participants realize they are in a
    game and winning and demonstrating the rude, haughty behavior
    that some do when winning any game - not just Monopoly.

    One example does not a trend make.

    I know enough wealthy people and enough poor people to know
    that there are both rude people and considerate people from
    either group. Probably in equal amounts.
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  • Profile picture of the author Kurt
    Does money make you mean or do mean people make more money?
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    • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
      Yep, watched how Rockafella, Andrew Carnegie and the like got to where they got, and being ruthless was one trait.


      Also developing systems that monopolized commodities, and suppressed or destroyed emerging commodities, was the norm.

      Give me someone who is rich and got there through oil, and l can show you someone who, would go into a rage at the though of anything that could replace oil!


      Shane
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      • Profile picture of the author seasoned
        Originally Posted by tagiscom View Post

        Yep, watched how Rockafella, Andrew Carnegie and the like got to where they got, and being ruthless was one trait.
        Who's to say how true those portrayals even are? STILL, it was a VERY different time and a VERY different era. also, tere were few of them and to say they were rich was an understatement. They would make the top 3-4 richest men in the world today look like paupers.

        Also developing systems that monopolized commodities, and suppressed or destroyed emerging commodities, was the norm.
        THINK ABOUT IT! If it were the norm, it wouldn't exist. Monopoly literally means MONO(ONE) entity controls it.

        Give me someone who is rich and got there through oil, and l can show you someone who, would go into a rage at the though of anything that could replace oil!
        WOW! I've met a few, and they didn't feel that way. There are always exceptions, and an industry usually wants to stay the course. HEY, ever met union workers threatened with losing their jobs? They get on the news FAR more often than an oil company upset about solar!

        Steve
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        • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
          Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

          Who's to say how true those portrayals even are? STILL, it was a VERY different time and a VERY different era. also, tere were few of them and to say they were rich was an understatement. They would make the top 3-4 richest men in the world today look like paupers.
          Well, l suppose, but l don't think that a couple of DVD's in a box set are fabricated. Probably some of the acting was pushing it, but l doubt that the actual wheeling and dealing portrayed in this serious was inaccurate.

          They tended to do things on a vast scale, so records would be kept!


          THINK ABOUT IT! If it were the norm, it wouldn't exist. Monopoly literally means MONO(ONE) entity controls it.

          Well back then, survival of the fittest or smartest was the norm; so much so, that the richest or more powerful industrialists of that day kept tabs on each other to make sure if one made a bold move, they would know!

          And there were plenty of smaller fish wanting to become bigger ones, using any means they could.


          WOW! I've met a few, and they didn't feel that way. There are always exceptions, and an industry usually wants to stay the course. HEY, ever met union workers threatened with losing their jobs? They get on the news FAR more often than an oil company upset about solar!

          Steve

          Well solar, (with Sals possible exception) and wind aren't really a threat to oil or Petrol. Cars don't run well directly using these methods, (can't put a wind turbine or solar panels all over a car).

          And they don't run 24/7, solar works half the time, and wind isn't consistent.

          But if l owned oil stock, and someone showed me something that will run for a thousand years, generating electricity for free, then you bet l would be worried.

          Or concerned?

          I might even go into a rage if all my assets were derived solely from oil. But if l had confidence that the powers that be, would efficiently suppress anything like this, l would possibly laugh if someone showed me this.


          But thankfully l am not into that sort of wealth creation!


          Shane
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  • Profile picture of the author Jonathan 2.0
    Banned
    Nah. Having more money would bring out my generous side. I think if you're already a "mean" person, having more money would amplify that.
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  • Profile picture of the author Sumit Menon
    Like David, anti-social should be my middle name too. People think I'm shy- well, sometimes but most times I just don't give a shit.

    I am mean for free.
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    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      Originally Posted by bizgrower View Post

      Before jumping to any conclusions, I think it wise to consider the
      political/social leanings of this 2012 PhD from Berkeley.

      Also, I think his findings are flawed because in the Monopoly game
      scenario, he assumed the poor behavior is because they are wealthy.
      It could just as easily be that the participants realize they are in a
      game and winning and demonstrating the rude, haughty behavior
      that some do when winning any game - not just Monopoly.

      .
      Great insight. Yeah, I'm a poor winner. If I play Monopoly, and win? I gloat, I revel in the victory. But it's because I'm competitive...and it's still a game...and I'm really just playing with the other people. I don't really think like I act. When I lose, I'm morose...but not really.


      And the test has a huge flaw. It isn't a wealthy player against a poor player. It's 2 poor players competing...and one was given more money.


      The "wealthy player" is a poor person with suddenly more money. So what the test reveals is that poor people, who are given money they haven't earned...behave badly compared to their other poor counterpart.
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      • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

        And the test has a huge flaw. It isn't a wealthy player against a poor player. It's 2 poor players competing...and one was given more money.

        Also a great point. Most who have earned their wealth
        have people skills and have learned to play well with others.

        In the example of the people driving expensive cars and not stopping
        for pedestrians, he is making huge leap to assume those drivers are
        wealthy. Plenty of poor people drive fancy cars or trucks (and are stressed
        by the huge payments). Also, used fancy cars really don't cost that much.

        All in all - and I'm a psych major - IMO his research shows why many don't
        think psychology is a science.

        Dan
        .
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        • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
          Originally Posted by bizgrower View Post

          In the example of the people driving expensive cars and not stopping
          for pedestrians, he is making huge leap to assume those drivers are
          wealthy.
          Plenty of poor people drive fancy cars or trucks (and are stressed
          by the huge payments). Also, used fancy cars really don't cost that much.
          Yup; people who drive very expensive show cars, are usually not the wealthy. They are people trying to impress the wealthy.

          My uncle was a multi-millionaire. I asked him once about expensive suits and fast cars. He told me that these are things people buy that sell to guys like him. But you don't become wealthy by spending huge amounts on cars. Of course, once you have real wealth, you can drive whatever you want.
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          • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
            Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

            . Of course, once you have real wealth, you can drive whatever you want.
            Thanks. This means I keep my 97 Rusted Riffle version LT AWD Astro Van. lol
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            • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
              Originally Posted by bizgrower View Post

              Thanks. This means I keep my 97 Rusted Riffle version LT AWD Astro Van. lol
              My wife and I both drive PT Cruisers. Mine is a 2004 and hers is a 2009. They are both running perfectly, and have no rust or dings.

              Maybe in a year or so, we'll buy a new car. We could buy one now, but have no reason to. The only person I care to impress is my wife.

              In the book The Millionaire Next Door, the most popular car with millionaires was a red Chevy truck. The author held an event to thank the millionaires that helped with the interviews. He had caviar, champagne, sandwiches and a bar.

              Nobody ate the caviar, and nobody drank the champagne. These are myths...beliefs that poor people have about millionaires. One guy, who was the wealthiest (maybe $100 million in assets) was asked what was his favorite beer. He said "Free or Bud". Wealthy people are just poor people that are better at making and handling money.
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          • Profile picture of the author seasoned
            Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

            Yup; people who drive very expensive show cars, are usually not the wealthy. They are people trying to impress the wealthy.

            My uncle was a multi-millionaire. I asked him once about expensive suits and fast cars. He told me that these are things people buy that sell to guys like him. But you don't become wealthy by spending huge amounts on cars. Of course, once you have real wealth, you can drive whatever you want.
            I've KNOWN poor people that drove Rolls Royces! Heck, one anecdote I have is about a guy that drove rolls royces, had a huge office, even paid $1000, or was it $10,000 for one of those holders for umbrellas. OH, he looked RICH! Where was he last time I saw him? He looked like a bum, and was living inn a cheap trailer in his mothers back yard.

            Heck, what kind of car does LENO generally drive? He has ALL SORTS of cars, but seems to consider himself more of a caretaker/hobbyist for them(treating them more like friends and museum pieces than possessions.). The one he drives daily may not even be worthy of his garage!

            Steve
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            • Profile picture of the author Jim Hallmark
              "I've KNOWN poor people that drove Rolls Royces! Heck, one anecdote I have is about a guy that drove rolls royces, had a huge office, even paid $1000, or was it $10,000 for one of those holders for umbrellas. OH, he looked RICH! Where was he last time I saw him? He looked like a bum, and was living inn a cheap trailer in his mothers back yard."

              Steve, your anecdote about the Rolls Royce made me think of one I heard back in the early '80's when I took a shot at being an Amway distributor. I went to a meeting where a "Triple Diamond" distributor was giving the typical motivational speech. He said that he loved driving his Rolls Royce around town and one day he was stopped by the police for speeding. The officer asked him what he did for a living and he replied dryly "I'm a checker at Safeway."
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        • Profile picture of the author writeaway
          Originally Posted by bizgrower View Post

          Also a great point. Most who have earned their wealth
          have people skills and have learned to play well with others.


          .
          I agree with this. The richest people I know have EXCELLENT people skills.
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          • Profile picture of the author Joe Mobley
            Money lets... you be more of what you already are.

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            • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
              Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

              I can tell you with certainty, that the answer is No.

              But define "Mean"? If you mean demanding what you paid for? Not sharing money with the less fortunate?

              To me, Mean means getting pleasure out of the misfortune of others.
              Very few successful people are like that....because delegating, and forming teams is part of business success.


              I finally watched the rest of the video. The people that drove nicer cars and didn't stop? No idea. Maybe they made a decision to go, because the guy on the corner obviously stopped. Again, no idea.
              Right, so Pharmaceutical company CEO's are excluded?


              Shane :rolleyes:
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  • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
    Yeah, I agree to a certain extent. He makes a lot of good points and his info isn't based on just one or two studies. I don't like the title of the video though "Does money make you mean?" which trivalizes and sensationalizes the subject which is much more complicated.

    Originally Posted by writeaway View Post

    Do you agree?
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  • Profile picture of the author David Maschke
    Money makes you good looking, intelligent, likable, funny and an all around interesting person.

    I have $5 in my pocket. People would really love my wife, though.
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    I've known some severely wealthy people. The ones who were happy with what they had were incredibly nice people. Those who never had enough were vile, reprehensible humans that would sell their own mother's for a dime.
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      I've known some severely wealthy people. The ones who were happy with what they had were incredibly nice people. Those who never had enough were vile, reprehensible humans that would sell their own mother's for a dime.
      YEAH! The quote "money is the root of all evil" is a mistranslation. The CORRECT quote is "The LOVE of money is the root of all evil.".

      Steve
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      • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
        Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

        YEAH! The quote "money is the root of all evil" is a mistranslation. The CORRECT quote is "The LOVE of money is the root of all evil.".

        Steve
        But the reality is that "The love of someone else's money is the root of some evil".

        Rape isn't for money....vandalism isn't either. So, I guess you can't believe everything you read.
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        • Profile picture of the author Dan Riffle
          Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

          But the reality is that "The love of someone else's money is the root of some evil".

          Rape isn't for money....vandalism isn't either. So, I guess you can't believe everything you read.
          I think you overshot here, Claude. I can think of a few scenarios where the love of one's own money could cause some evil. Therefore, I'm adjusting your maxim to, "The love of money is the root of some evil."
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          • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
            Originally Posted by Dan Riffle View Post

            I think you overshot here, Claude. I can think of a few scenarios where the love of one's own money could cause some evil. Therefore, I'm adjusting your maxim to, "The love of money is the root of some evil."
            Dearest Riffle...

            Do you mean by not helping others? If it's a crime, isn't it "Wanting other people's money/stuff?" Do you mean by not paying taxes?

            Do you have an example? (I know you do. Be gentle. I'm frail)

            I was really pretty much playing with the "Love of money" quote, but my real thought is that "Ignorance is the root of all evil". And that I really believe.

            In my view..people who do evil are defective. That's a viewpoint. Who knows if it's true.

            Maybe it depends on how you define "Evil".

            Maybe it's how you define "Love of money"? I don't see how you can love money. Maybe you love your social position, maybe you crave money for food, maybe you have a gambling addiction. What does "Love of money" mean?

            Anyway, this is all covered in my new book "Claude's Eternal Search For Cake".
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      • Profile picture of the author Midnight Oil
        Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

        YEAH! The quote "money is the root of all evil" is a mistranslation. The CORRECT quote is "The LOVE of money is the root of all evil.".

        Steve
        Most translations use "all kinds of evil," which does make more sense.
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        • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
          Originally Posted by Midnight Oil View Post

          Most translations use "all kinds of evil," which does make more sense.
          I'm about as non-religious as you can get...but, yeah, that would make more sense. In fact, it would make perfect sense.
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  • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
    Originally Posted by writeaway View Post

    Do you agree? Or is there social utility in 'being mean'?
    I can tell you with certainty, that the answer is No.

    But define "Mean"? If you mean demanding what you paid for? Not sharing money with the less fortunate?

    To me, Mean means getting pleasure out of the misfortune of others.
    Very few successful people are like that....because delegating, and forming teams is part of business success.


    I finally watched the rest of the video. The people that drove nicer cars and didn't stop? No idea. Maybe they made a decision to go, because the guy on the corner obviously stopped. Again, no idea.

    I know what I would be like taking the Monopoly test.

    My first thoughts would be "What is the real test here?"
    And one of us getting twice as much money as the other one would give the game away. They are testing responses. I may ignore the pretzels after finding out about the money, which would be a minor mistake.

    Winning is a joy. But winning when you start with an unfair advantage is not a joy. It's hollow, and depressing.

    Me? I would have taken all the money, divided it by two, and played by the same rules. That's the only way I would play. Otherwise, it isn't a game.
    And then I would be merciless. I would gloat over every win, and cry over a loss. Because that's part of the fun.

    If I were playing with someone that was..um...not intelligent, I may let them win. Because that win for them would mean something. And beating someone who is unable to compete...isn't fun, it's being a bully.

    It's why I love jabbing with Riffle, and a few others here. They can give as good as they get. And that's the joy.

    My mistake, years ago, was not recognizing who I could joke with, and who I couldn't. It made me look like a bully, and a jerk...which was understandable.
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    • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
      Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

      And one of us getting twice as much money as the other one would give the game away...
      Winning is a joy. But winning when you start with an unfair advantage is not a joy. It's hollow...
      So what if you didn't realize you were given twice as much money as the others?

      Say they gave each player their money and the players weren't able to see the amount the other players had. Then the one who had more to start with was able to buy more properties and start charging rent to the others more easily. Lets say then those who started out with less found that out and told the players who had the advantage that it wasn't really a fair game. Of course the players who had the advantage but weren't told that would feel resentment towards those who say that they had an advantage. They might say something like "I earned everything I have bought because I am just a better player than you" or "If you just played a smarter game you would be just where I am now" and they just might say "You are just jealous of what I have because you are not a good player".

      This was one of the larger points this guy was making. He was talking about the advantages the upper class have against the middle and lower classes. Sure, there are those in both the middle classes and the poor who still raise up and succeed despite starting out with less, but overall it will be much harder, just as in a monopoly game where one player starts out with less money.

      I have seen several people here in the off topic section say that if all the money was taken away from the rich and everyone had the same amount of money within a few years most of the same people would be rich again. Well, this study is suggesting there's a reason for this.

      Lets take that same idea but go back further in their lives. Imagine everyone having the same amount of money and also the same equal life experiences, environment and opportunities from the day they were born. What would be the result? I am certain that results would show, for the great majority, that becoming rich isn't something genetically predetermined. There isn't a rich gene in other words. Sure, some people are just born smarter than others, but of those who are rich now many would be poor if they hadn't had an advantage similar to starting out with more money in a monopoly game.
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      • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
        Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

        So what if you didn't realize you were given twice as much money as the others?
        But the players did realize that they had more money. They were also given other, more obvious advantages.

        Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

        This was one of the larger points this guy was making. He was talking about the advantages the upper class have against the middle and lower classes.
        Tim; I agree completely on this. People coming from wealthy families, with the best educations, the best connections...do have a distinct advantage. If you are white, you have an advantage. If you are male, you have an advantage.

        I came from a very blue collar family where nobody went to college, and most rented until they died. Was it harder for me? Absolutely. But that just means you start out at a disadvantage. You aren't always at a disadvantage.

        There are plenty of highly successful women, African-Americans, immigrants, with no college education...who started with nothing. In my view, you can have a disadvantage when you are 20 years old; Bad parents, bad environment...but when you are 50 years old? That's the life you made.
        People born wealthy have an advantage, but we can overcome that advantage.


        Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

        [/B]. Sure, some people are just born smarter than others, but of those who are rich now many would be poor if they hadn't had an advantage similar to starting out with more money in a monopoly game.
        I agree. Being born to a wealthy environment is an advantage that may take care of you for a lifetime. But that's pretty rare.

        Back to the study. People that drive expensive cars are rude. I believe that. It was a good study. But that doesn't mean that wealthy people are rude. Just people that drive expensive cars. It's a skewed study. And the guy doing the research had an agenda. It wasn't obvious to me, until I saw the entire video.

        There is a huge prejudice in the human mind. Wealthy people see poor people as lazy. Poor people see wealthy people as evil. Both are wrong. But if you are in the argument..it's hard to see that.


        Originally Posted by socialentry View Post

        The reason why people give to charity is that they have earned their money dishonestly-Voltaire

        Think about it OP
        One thing I've learned in my life..is just because it's quoted by a dead person...doesn't make it true. Have you ever given to charity? Are you earning your money dishonestly?

        See? A little thought is all it takes.
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        • Profile picture of the author socialentry
          Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

          One thing I've learned in my life..is just because it's quoted by a dead person...doesn't make it true. Have you ever given to charity? Are you earning your money dishonestly?

          See? A little thought is all it takes.
          :confused:

          Arguably, it is a generalization, but it makes sense. Someone who does not have qualms about the nature of his money do not feel guilty keeping 100% of it.

          Why should he?
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          • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
            Originally Posted by socialentry View Post

            :confused:

            Arguably, it is a generalization, but it makes sense. Someone who does not have qualms about the nature of his money do not feel guilty keeping 100% of it.

            Why should he?
            Many who have no qualms about how they made their money still donate.
            Some tithe. Some happily "reverse tithe" - give away most of their money.

            When one has more than they could spend, why keep it.

            Dan
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  • Profile picture of the author webcosmo
    I`ve seen some travel reports, and in much poorer countries, people were more hospitable , offering to share food and shelter with total strangers. So i guess it`s correct.
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  • Profile picture of the author socialentry
    The reason why people give to charity is that they have earned their money dishonestly-Voltaire

    Think about it OP
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  • Profile picture of the author David Maschke
    The observations and conclusions aren't very groundbreaking or new.

    Game theory is strategic interactive decision making between rational players, and the term "rational" being defined as a person who is willing to act in his or her own best interest, and the outside opinions of others mean nothing.

    When you look at the world thru these lenses, the actions of governments and corporations start to make sense. Anything else will lead you to frustration and naivete.
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  • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
    Of course some people who are born well off are arrogant and the only reason is their wealth. Some of those not born wealthy turn arrogant when they obtain wealth.

    I have no idea what the percentages are.

    Having money is used as just another excuse for some to act like they're better than other people.

    Some other reasons...

    - race
    - education level
    - religion
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    "It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled. -- Mark Twain

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  • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
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    "If you think you're the smartest person in the room, then you're probably in the wrong room."

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  • Profile picture of the author workoutstuff1
    Someone once told me that money just simply makes you more of what you already are.
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    • Profile picture of the author thunderbird
      Originally Posted by workoutstuff1 View Post

      Someone once told me that money just simply makes you more of what you already are.
      Travelling to other countries sometimes does that to people as well, whether complimentary or -- how you say? -- not at all flattering.
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      Project HERE.

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  • Profile picture of the author DarioMontesdeOca
    In my opinion acquiring lots of money brings out the person who you naturally are
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