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I think illiteracy takes many forms. In many cases, highly educated individuals helpless in a number of areas, so would, in fact, be illiterate on those areas. Many individuals wouldn't seem to be educated on paper, yet, in the world outside of academia are highly successful, thus are unofficially more literate in a number of areas than many individuals who, on paper, would seem to be more educated. Who am I to say? No one special. I'm a common ignoramus.

An Ignoramus's Uninformed Speculations On Branches of Literacy:
Reading and Writing Literacy. Ability to read and write
Math LiteracyAbility to do everyday math such as that which is necessary to purchase things with cash and know if you're giving or receiving the right amount of money.
Physical Self-defense Literacy. Ability to physically defend oneself. The same way as being able to read makes illiteracy a non-issue in a child's life, learning self-defense can render non-existent the insecurity that makes someone into a bully or a target of bullying.
Musical Literacy. Being good at music can open up all sorts of avenues for a person. I have a friend who travelled around the world and all he had to do was find public places with a piano in order to make money. Such avenues aren't open to someone not good at music.
Singing literacy. Fantasia Barrino was a winner of the American Idol singing contest, beating thousands upon thousands of individuals trying to qualify for it. She was, therefore, more musically literate in the singing arena than the vast majority of the population. Yet she probably couldn't read a note of music since it later emerged that she was unable to read and write.
Sports Literacy. Even modest ability at sports immediately opens of avenues for friendship an camaraderie. Great ability at sports can lead to fully paid scholarships at top universities via sports scholarships. Inability at sports and being unversed in them definitely shuts off those advantageous avenues.
Conversational Language Literacy . Some educated people have great difficulty with everyday chit-chat. Being able to learn more than one language and apply them in conversation opens up all sorts of social and business possibilites. Note that I said, apply them in conversation. I was baffled how I had to act as an interpreter for people in China for students whose major was Chinese. I picked up the language through drunken conversations over beer and spirits at people's homes in China. I'm not even good at languages. I don't even have a first language. Obviously, it might seem to be English but I actually approach it as if it was a second language. I didn't even start talking until I was 4 after I became silent and withdrawn at age 2
Mechanical Literacy. Countless individuals wouldn't seem too literate in conversation, yet can fix and handle any kind of machinery you put before them.
  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Then there's computer literacy, which at some points, I am not. Codes are what they put on spy rings in cereal boxes in my world.
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    • Profile picture of the author thunderbird
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      Then there's computer literacy, which at some points, I am not. Codes are what they put on spy rings in cereal boxes in my world.
      Kids nowadays all seem to be playing on tablets. They are becoming very computer literate, but at what price? My son was demonstrating remarkable (freakish) ability at it himself, but I took it away from him since it was cutting him off from the physical environment and I want him to be having real-world interaction. Also, there are health questions related to such devices that I am not sure have been answered yet.
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      • Profile picture of the author seasoned
        Originally Posted by thunderbird View Post

        Kids nowadays all seem to be playing on tablets. They are becoming very computer literate, but at what price? My son was demonstrating remarkable (freakish) ability at it himself, but I took it away from him since it was cutting him off from the physical environment and I want him to be having real-world interaction. Also, there are health questions related to such devices that I am not sure have been answered yet.
        MOST kids today are NOT that "computer literate" unless you say that being able to use a particular app, or do the basic file/directory management, is computer literate. If THAT is computer literate, then almost everyone on this forum, from 10-100 is computer literate.

        When I was a kid, MOST people thought you were computer literate if you could play a video game! They ALSO figured, if you were a computer programmer, that you had to be a MATH WHIZ! A veritable GENIUS!

        Regarding the health questions, what are they? Earlier ones were:

        1. Bad for the eyes.... Apparently FALSE!
        2. Bad due to radiation(It is debatable how this relates today).... Apparently relatively false.
        3. Laptops DO put most of the heat on the bottom of the laptop so it IS a bad idea for a male to basically use them on the lap.
        4. They CAN cut you off from the rest of the world.

        Steve
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        • Profile picture of the author thunderbird
          Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

          MOST kids today are NOT that "computer literate" unless you say that being able to use a particular app, or do the basic file/directory management, is computer literate. If THAT is computer literate, then almost everyone on this forum, from 10-100 is computer literate.

          When I was a kid, MOST people thought you were computer literate if you could play a video game! They ALSO figured, if you were a computer programmer, that you had to be a MATH WHIZ! A veritable GENIUS! <snip>
          Steve
          True. I didn't explore that point. While there are kids games designed to teach computer programming, lots of them are just silly and would probably just exercise hand-eye coordination at best.

          For example, Gameloft's kids games are very silly, probably useless, and primarily a vehicle for looting the unsuspecting parents of small kids. Their games contain essentially cloaked "in app" purchasing features that are made to look like it's playing part of the game, easy for even wee kids to make "purchases" of cyber nonsense. It is definitely unethical, certainly criminally-minded (perhaps illegal?). After my son, 3, amassed $388 of such fees just playing their stupid games, they did give me a refund after I requested it. But that wasn't until I jumped through a bunch of bureaucratic loops of their annoying construction. Clearly, Gameloft makes a fortune from this, since lots of parents would be too timid and non-confrontational to request a refund.
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        • Profile picture of the author kenmichaels
          Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

          They ALSO figured, if you were a computer programmer, that you had to be a MATH WHIZ! A veritable GENIUS!
          My mom still thinks that! Don't go ruining it for me

          Thunder ....

          Something feels off about your approach, perhaps the logic.
          Unfortunately I am not sure what. I am one of those guys
          who cant spell worth a darn, but I always know a misspelled word
          when I see it.

          It's something like that. If I can come up with anything that
          remotely makes sense ill post it.
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          • Profile picture of the author thunderbird
            Originally Posted by kenmichaels View Post

            My mom still thinks that! Don't go ruining it for me

            Thunder ....

            Something feels off about your approach, perhaps the logic.
            Unfortunately I am not sure what. I am one of those guys
            who cant spell worth a darn, but I always know a misspelled word
            when I see it.

            It's something like that. If I can come up with anything that
            remotely makes sense ill post it.
            Not that I'm making a submission to Nature magazine, but how is my logic off? I'm saying there are many areas of competence. Someone may be highly advanced in one area but incompetent in another. Some people are good at just about anything as well. That said, I can help you with what's off. "Literate" means able to read and write, so isn't the right word to use for most of my coarsely-stated examples. But that didn't stop me from using it and that would be off.

            Edit: I planted a funny error above, but no one called me on it (nice group), so I corrected it.
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          • Profile picture of the author HeySal
            Originally Posted by kenmichaels View Post

            My mom still thinks that! Don't go ruining it for me

            Thunder ....

            Something feels off about your approach, perhaps the logic.
            Unfortunately I am not sure what. I am one of those guys
            who cant spell worth a darn, but I always know a misspelled word
            when I see it.

            It's something like that. If I can come up with anything that
            remotely makes sense ill post it.

            Do you know that is perfectly normal? It's also intelligent. Written language isn't instinctual, spoken is. In English, the language morphology is pretty wild - and actually relatively rapid as well. Spelling often makes no sense when viewed with all aspects considered, and is merely a matter of overtly bothering to memorize the words. It has absolutely not one whit to do with intelligence other than memorization. You will, however, memorize more words passively just from repetition of seeing them if you read a lot.

            So if a grammar Nazi ever bugs you about your spelling and you get sick of listening to it - just tell em you aren't an idiot savant and can actually use the points the words actually make even if you haven't memorized the American Heritage Dictionary.
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            • Profile picture of the author HN
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              • Profile picture of the author thunderbird
                Originally Posted by HN View Post

                You don't have to be an idiot savant. They want you to believe that you have to be an idiot to be brilliant. How about Daniel Tammet? He memorized 22,500 decimal digits of Pi in 3 weeks. That's about 1000 per day. I'd say that's my normal pace. I can memorize 1000 in a few hours.
                I can calculate the square root of 8 digit number with 1 decimal digit precision in a few seconds. I can also calculate the distance between any two cities in my head if I know the coordinates. Anyone can do it. I am also memorizing 7000 pages of encyclopedia. Basically I ask people to spell a word and I 'll tell them what page it's on. For my Lithuanian trip I am memorizing 3000 lines of epic called Seasons by Kristijoas Donelaitis in 3 languages Lithuanian, Russian and English.
                There's nothing special about it. Government just doesn't want to teach this to people, since dumb citizens are easier to control.
                I think you're right about that, but I'll respond to the original assertion. A more accurate and less harsh term is autistic savant. People often confuse autism with idiocy when, in fact, it seems to be genetically connected with genius. Genius involves creatively applying knowledge and often entails making connections between seemingly disparate things. Child Geniuses And Autism Connected - Medical News Today
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              • Profile picture of the author seasoned
                Originally Posted by HN View Post

                You don't have to be an idiot savant. They want you to believe that you have to be an idiot to be brilliant. How about Daniel Tammet? He memorized 22,500 decimal digits of Pi in 3 weeks. That's about 1000 per day. I'd say that's my normal pace. I can memorize 1000 in a few hours.
                I can calculate the square root of 8 digit number with 1 decimal digit precision in a few seconds. I can also calculate the distance between any two cities in my head if I know the coordinates. Anyone can do it. I am also memorizing 7000 pages of encyclopedia. Basically I ask people to spell a word and I 'll tell them what page it's on. For my Lithuanian trip I am memorizing 3000 lines of epic called Seasons by Kristijoas Donelaitis in 3 languages Lithuanian, Russian and English.
                There's nothing special about it. Government just doesn't want to teach this to people, since dumb citizens are easier to control.
                You should write a book then, on memory. There are a TON of memory books out there. They cover maybe 7 methods. MOST cover one method no matter what else they cover, but they are ok for memorizing short lists, and not great for learning languages.

                At one point, people were saying that an eidetic memory is a MYTH! I heard only a couple weeks ago that NOBODY has a REAL photographic memory. OK, OK, maybe it isn't true, but I saw a show where a person supposedly sketched out a landscape in good detail. It was pretty artistic and detailed. The CATCH was that he did it from memory after flying around the area in a helicopter. If true, that PROVES photographic memory exists, and could be detailed.

                The term idiot savant was replaced with "autistic savant" at least about a decade ago, and daniel tammet is HFA.

                Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Radiation has not been debunked, Steve. There's corporate disinformation about it - but if you talk to experts on radiation, they warn against them.
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      Radiation has not been debunked, Steve. There's corporate disinformation about it - but if you talk to experts on radiation, they warn against them.
      What I meant was that the complaint USED to be almost 100% due to the CRT. Processors were generally FAR slower(clock speed). TODAY, the CRT is generally GONE, so NO radiation, but the Processor clock speed is now MICROWAVE level.

      I wasn't disputing it, merely that one could debate the relative radiation. YEAH, it IS bad.

      Steve
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      • Profile picture of the author Kay King
        probably just exercise hand-eye coordinatio
        Not even that - some doctors say we are raising kids who may develop carpel tunnel in their late teens and may have spinal problems from hours spent in front of a computer or bending over handheld electronics.

        I wonder if we are raising a new generation of addicts - people who are lost if they aren't "connected" at all times.
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        • Profile picture of the author seasoned
          Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

          Not even that - some doctors say we are raising kids who may develop carpel tunnel in their late teens and may have spinal problems from hours spent in front of a computer or bending over handheld electronics.

          I wonder if we are raising a new generation of addicts - people who are lost if they aren't "connected" at all times.
          You know how capable kids are today? Disregarding some relatively simple words, or questions like who barack obama is, or harry ried, or what the closest planet to the sun is, etc...

          I have seen people totally lost if the power goes out, because they can't do simple addition. Today, I asked a person a simple question, and it took her several minutes, and she was counting on her fingers! I asked her what she was doing. She said she had to add 6 months to the start date. Basically, the given was 9/23, and the answer was 3/23! 9(last september)+6(months to expiration)=15-12(months in year)=3(expiration same day this month) Apparently days aren't involved in the equation. She should have been able to do it in her head without missing a beat.

          So people try to make it sound like this generation is SO much smarter than the previous generations, but it is a false security, like so many other things today.

          And yeah, a lot of kids just want to play games, etc... When I was younger I got to know a LOT of software pirates. Practically ALL they had were GAMES! And the computer literacy and desire of the average kid TODAY is NO different from those when I was in highschool. That actually makes sense! SAME KIDS! SAME CONCEPT! Only the PLATFORM changed substantially and makes it seem different. Back THEN, to draw with motion, you would use a pad or a joystick. TODAY it is a TOUCH PAD(a bit smaller than the ones they had then), or a mouse.

          Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author thunderbird
    Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill View Post

    Literacy concerns facility with words.

    Numeracy concerns facility with numbers.

    You are confusing literacy with skill, acumen, moxie, accomplishment etc.
    Yes, but if scissors and hammers work with jigsaw puzzle pieces, you can force words to be applied in ways they are not intended for.
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  • Profile picture of the author socialentry
    It's a little bit like saying

    Einstein may have been a genius but he couldn't kick a soccer ball for shit so therefore in some way I am more of a genius then Einstein.

    Kekekekkekekeekekkekeke
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  • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
    How about Life Literacy as in being able to take care of
    one's own affairs, being someone you'd want on a wagon train.

    Example: I have an employee who gives up if he does not get something.
    He's apparently always been this way. (I think teachers/parents/bosses
    let him slide.) "I don't get it, you'll just have to show me again." For me,
    it means I have to "retrain" often. He is good with our customers though.
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  • Profile picture of the author thunderbird
    Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill View Post

    What about literacy literacy?

    Ever think about that?
    I like it. How about "'Litteracy Literacy,' a guide to training puppies and kittens"
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