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The '77 Cents on the Dollar' Myth About Women's Pay

by Joe Mobley
12 replies
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Then there is the issue of marriage and children. The BLS reports that single women who have never married earned 96% of men's earnings in 2012.
Progressives assume that businesses nickel-and-dime suppliers, customers, consultants, anyone with whom they come into contact--yet ignore a great opportunity to reduce wages costs by 23%. They don't ignore the opportunity because it doesn't exist.
Oh boy. :rolleyes:

The '77 Cents on the Dollar' Myth About Women's Pay

Joe Mobley
  • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
    Originally Posted by Joe Mobley View Post

    The report seems legitimate.

    In the book Business Brilliant it quoted real studies of large groups of men and women in identical jobs. There was a discrepancy. But most of it was because women tend to not negotiate as hard as men over starting salaries, and men ask for raises more often. At first, the pay percentage difference is very small, but with every promotion, the gap widens. Negotiating (rejecting the opening offer) is simply more common with men.

    Even if there were a law that males and females were paid the same in new jobs, the gap would appear eventually with promotions. That's a guess.


    I always thought the claim of "77 cents for every dollar a man makes" sounded weird. I just can't imagine a company saying "Well, this job pays X if you are a woman, and Y if you are a man". I've never known any company owner to pay more or less based on gender. But they will pay less if you accept their first offer.....which is generally the same for people with identical skills.


    The studies sounded legitimate.... And were from reputable sources. At least that I remember.

    My source was a business book. But I don't see how this discussion...here... won't turn political.
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      Saw a blog (moyers) with the info below on it - and it made sense.


      Men were almost twice as likely as women to work more than 40 hours a week, and women almost twice as likely to work only 35 to 39 hours per week. Once that is taken into consideration, the pay gap begins to shrink. Women who worked a 40-hour week earned 88% of male earnings.


      Then there is the issue of marriage and children. The BLS (US Bureau of Labor) reports that single women who have never married earned 96% of men's earnings in 2012.
      We've come a long way and it's an old argument. I don't think it will ever be 100% equal unless men start giving birth.
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  • Profile picture of the author Dan Riffle
    Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill View Post

    Women usually don't work in the machine trades, construction, road maintenance,and other high-paying jobs demanding physical strength. That's not to say that they cannot. It is to say that most do not. When's the last time you saw a woman operating a jackhammer?

    Female dominated industries, textiles, light factory work, hospitality and others have failed to organize.

    I believe these reasons account for a large part of the perceived difference in pay between men and women.
    Precisely. A higher percentage of women also work part-time jobs which skew the numbers, as well.
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    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      Originally Posted by Dan Riffle View Post

      Precisely. A higher percentage of women also work part-time jobs which skew the numbers, as well.
      I don't know if that's been factored in. Maybe not.

      I wonder how much the numbers are skewed because women with children may need to leave early more often, or maybe take off a few more sick days.

      Maybe all this is factored it. I have no idea.

      As an experiment, we should have Dan Riffle apply for a job, but not tell the interviewer which sex he is. We could see if they refuse to give him an offer until he confirms his gender.

      The plan is bulletproof.
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      • Profile picture of the author Dan Riffle
        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

        I don't know if that's been factored in. Maybe not.
        I've never read a study where it wasn't. Typically, when compared on a similar job basis, there's virtually no discrepancy. The wage difference between the genders compared on a group basis is usually due to the difference in typical job type.
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill View Post

    Women usually don't work in the machine trades, construction, road maintenance,and other high-paying jobs demanding physical strength. That's not to say that they cannot. It is to say that most do not. When's the last time you saw a woman operating a jackhammer?

    .
    I'll say it for you. Women, except a very rare few individuals, can handle the the same work load as men can. We are not built the same and no amount of PC can fix that one. Those extreme jobs tend to pay better than a lot of jobs that are equally accessible to women, but then, they are taxing to most men, too, and it would be hard to entice men to do them for less than they pay, too.

    However - when they talk about unequal pay, I've always taken that to mean per the same job. Incredibly - where the pay difference is the most noticeable is right there in the Gov offices of the reps that are building platforms on pay equality. Go figure.

    Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

    Saw a blog (moyers) with the info below on it - and it made sense.

    We've come a long way and it's an old argument. I don't think it will ever be 100% equal unless men start giving birth.

    O. M. G. That would be one fast way to increase welfare costs. Men wouldn't know which way to turn if they had to raise kids, clean house, find time to cater to a spouse or SO, AND hold a job.
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    • Profile picture of the author MikeAmbrosio
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      I'll say it for you. Women, except a very rare few individuals, can handle the the same work load as men can. We are not built the same and no amount of PC can fix that one. Those extreme jobs tend to pay better than a lot of jobs that are equally accessible to women, but then, they are taxing to most men, too, and it would be hard to entice men to do them for less than they pay, too.

      However - when they talk about unequal pay, I've always taken that to mean per the same job. Incredibly - where the pay difference is the most noticeable is right there in the Gov offices of the reps that are building platforms on pay equality. Go figure.


      [/INDENT]O. M. G. That would be one fast way to increase welfare costs. Men wouldn't know which way to turn if they had to raise kids, clean house, find time to cater to a spouse or SO, AND hold a job.
      LOL - that's as old a thought as the $0.77 per dollar thought.

      The actual giving birth part? Totally agree - would never want to experience that. But I have seen more and more of BOTH parents taking part in raising of the kids.

      There may still be a gap - but dads raising kids (and/or sharing equally in the endeavor) has become a lot more commonplace.

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      • Profile picture of the author ThomM
        But most of it was because women tend to not negotiate as hard as men over starting salaries, and men ask for raises more often.
        Recently there was a small study or test done that was reported on TV.
        10 men and 10 women where asked to play a game and they where told they would be paid between 5 and 12 dollars.
        When they finished they where all offered $5.
        Almost everyone of the men asked for the $12.
        Almost all the women took the $5.
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      I'll say it for you. Women, except a very rare few individuals, can handle the the same work load as men can. We are not built the same and no amount of PC can fix that one. Those extreme jobs tend to pay better than a lot of jobs that are equally accessible to women, but then, they are taxing to most men, too, and it would be hard to entice men to do them for less than they pay, too.
      HEY, not all MEN are paid the same. And some are FIRED for not being able to do the job.

      However - when they talk about unequal pay, I've always taken that to mean per the same job. Incredibly - where the pay difference is the most noticeable is right there in the Gov offices of the reps that are building platforms on pay equality. Go figure.
      That is ESPECIALLY interesting because TRADITIONALLY such desk jobs have tended to be for WOMEN. And they apparently used to have all male operators at the phone company, but until recently about all have been WOMEN! WHY? Because they found that most of the women did better with customer service.

      O. M. G. That would be one fast way to increase welfare costs. Men wouldn't know which way to turn if they had to raise kids, clean house, find time to cater to a spouse or SO, AND hold a job.
      GIVE ME A BREAK! Men tend to be better relating to boys, and some DO raise kids well. Many clean house, and many professional chefs happen to be male.

      They found that much of the discrepancy is because more of the women have minimum wage jobs. They should compare like to like. STILL, if a man is faster or can lift more on certain jobs, he SHOULD be paid more, and generally will be.

      In MY career, historically, FEW have been women, so trying to compare their pay in my industry is not right.

      They NOW want women, and later they said ALL, to see what everyone makes. MAN, that is LOUSY! In my industry:

      1. some are faster!
      2. some are better!
      3. some have a better track record!
      4. some are more accepted!
      5. some are asked for!
      6 some have customer ties!
      7. some give more time!
      8. some take less vacation time!
      9. some do work others won't

      This stuff does NOT show up on s time sheet. It may not show up on a review. HOPEFULLY, they are paid MORE. SORRY! YES, women can do the same. YES, sometimes they DO! And YES, sometimes THEY get paid more.

      Steve
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    • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
      Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

      In the book Business Brilliant it quoted real studies of large groups of men and women in identical jobs. There was a discrepancy. But most of it was because women tend to not negotiate as hard as men over starting salaries, and men ask for raises more often.
      I was driving back from Wisconsin Dells today and there was a guy on the radio who said pretty much the same thing. "Women don't negotiate as well as men do."

      It had the ring of truth to me when I heard it, based on my own observations.
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