Maybe I am bit of a Romantic but isn't a Captain Supposed to go down with the Ship ?

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A little perplexed. And deeply saddened that so many young teenagers perished in that South Korean Ferry accident.

Maybe I am old school but isn't it standard protocol that a Captain of a Ship remains there until ALL or most all passengers are taken care of ? (he was one of the first ones out on lifeboat after 32 minutes of reporting accident)

Especially when children are involved ? What was he thinking ?
  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    So it seems I missed some news. Did the captain abandon his passengers or what?
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Oh my God.

    "coward dies a thousand deaths, the brave die but once."
    Not only did he fail to act when he should have - he actually left them. He should hope for prison - there's nowhere on earth that he can go and not be slimemold. At least in prison, he'd be able to hide.
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  • Profile picture of the author kenmichaels
    As a member of the human race, who looked out for himself and not others ...
    yes, he should be shameful.

    Now ... as a captain of a ship. Is there some rule / law that when you become a captain
    its your duty to die?

    Isn't that just another really outdated custom ...

    To save your self is human instinct. To save others wile endangering your own life
    that is a rational thinking during a catastrophe ....

    From what i understand less people can do that then we think.

    I am not going to condemn some one because they ran. No matter how much I might want to.

    I had goosebumps reading the story, because of the school children and there families.

    That girl saying she cant walk to her father ... made me freak a little when
    I thought about how my boy or myself would react in that same situation.
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    • Profile picture of the author Kurt
      Originally Posted by kenmichaels View Post

      As a member of the human race, who looked out for himself and not others ...
      yes, he should be shameful.

      Now ... as a captian of a ship. Is there some rule / law that when you become a captain
      its your duty to die?

      Isn't that just another really outdated custom ...
      Let me say as a former merchant marine that it isn't a captain's duty to die. However, it is a "job requirement" that a captain is the last to leave the ship after the passengers and then the crew have been been evacuated, which can mean going down with the ship.

      And no, I don't believe it's outdated. It's the captain's job to make decisions and be a leader and to save as many lives as possible. If you don't want this responsibility, don't become a captain of a vessel.

      In these emergency situations, you need a chain of command more than ever, and if there's no one in charge it only leads to more chaos and lost lives. In this particular case, only 1 of the 47 life boats were launched. Was this because the captain left in the first life boat and didn't give orders to launch the others?

      BTW, I am Coast Guard certified to lead a life boat.
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      • Profile picture of the author kenmichaels
        Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

        Let me say as a former merchant marine that it isn't a captain's duty to die. However, it is a "job requirement" that a captain is the last to leave the ship after the passengers and then the crew have been been evacuated, which can mean going down with the ship.

        And no, I don't believe it's outdated. It's the captain's job to make decisions and be a leader and to save as many lives as possible. If you don't want this responsibility, don't become a captain of a vessle.

        In these emergency situations, you need a chain of command more than ever, and if there's no one in charge it only leads to more chaos and lost lives. In this particular case, only 1 of the 47 life boats were launched. Was this because the captain left in the first life boat and didn't give orders to launch the others?

        BTW, I am Coast Guard certified to lead a life boat.
        Now that makes sense ... a lot more sense then always hearing the
        proverbial ... the captain goes down with the ship.

        I never understood it myself. Now I do. Thanks

        Upon reflecting I realized i never once considered the need a chain of command provides.
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      • Profile picture of the author Johnny Slater
        As a fellow former merchant marine I have to second every thing Kurt said.

        Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

        Let me say as a former merchant marine that it isn't a captain's duty to die. However, it is a "job requirement" that a captain is the last to leave the ship after the passengers and then the crew have been been evacuated, which can mean going down with the ship.

        And no, I don't believe it's outdated. It's the captain's job to make decisions and be a leader and to save as many lives as possible. If you don't want this responsibility, don't become a captain of a vessel.

        In these emergency situations, you need a chain of command more than ever, and if there's no one in charge it only leads to more chaos and lost lives. In this particular case, only 1 of the 47 life boats were launched. Was this because the captain left in the first life boat and didn't give orders to launch the others?

        BTW, I am Coast Guard certified to lead a life boat.
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    From what I read he didn't react and start evacuating as he should either.
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      I've wondered why so often after such a tragedy we hear "we were told to stay in place" - that happened on 9/11, too.

      Is that lack of chain of command? I've thought of it as a need to "control" events by someone who is supposed to make decisions. Sort of a "stay in place while I see about this".

      I think this captain will end up wishing he'd gone down with the ship. Might have been easier than what he's going to face and has to live with.
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  • Profile picture of the author waterotter
    Hearing some news coverage this evening, the passengers were ordered to stay where they were, as to not tip the ship...so to speak. If they had tried to reach higher grounds, they may have had a better chance of escaping/being rescued.

    I think Captains operating these vessels need mandatory training in how to deal with these horrific incidents. Somebody needs to be held accountable.

    Such a sad story....thoughts and prayers to all involved.
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    • Profile picture of the author Kurt
      Originally Posted by waterotter View Post

      Hearing some news coverage this evening, the passengers were ordered to stay where they were, as to not tip the ship...so to speak. If they had tried to reach higher grounds, they may have had a better chance of escaping/being rescued.

      I think Captains operating these vessels need mandatory training in how to deal with these horrific incidents. Somebody needs to be held accountable.

      Such a sad story....thoughts and prayers to all involved.
      The training requirements vary depending on the country of the flag the ship/vessel sails under.

      Way back in the early 80s there were only two passenger ships sailing under the US flag. I'd bet there's none now. This is because the US has tough requirements for shipping. To save a buck (at the expense of safety) ships will fly under flags of countries like Liberia.

      One problem is, in a life or death situation you never know who will panic and only think about saving their own life. I saw a documentary about people that survived plane crashes where others died. The survivors were people that were literally tossing others aside and stepping on others to get out the emergency exits.

      Afterwards, many felt guilty, but at the time they had no consideration for others and were very aggressive about getting out.
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      • Profile picture of the author discrat
        Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

        The training requirements vary depending on the country of the flag the ship/vessel sails under.

        Way back in the early 80s there were only two passenger ships sailing under the US flag. I'd bet there's none now. This is because the US has tough requirements for shipping. To save a buck (at the expense of safety) ships will fly under flags of countries like Liberia.

        One problem is, in a life or death situation you never know who will panic and only think about saving their own life. I saw a documentary about people that survived plane crashes where others died. The survivors were people that were literally tossing others aside and stepping on others to get out the emergency exits.

        Afterwards, many felt guilty, but at the time they had no consideration for others and were very aggressive about getting out.
        People are just wired differently ,their Morals, their ability to assimilate in different conditions etc..

        We have all seen the videos of older people and even children getting hit by cars or robbed in public (seen on video surveillance) and then showing people just walk by ignoring them even after pleads of help.

        Many are scared some just do not have the time to worry about it because Life is all about them.


        Case in point, And this is UNBELIEVABLE

        Texting Driver Who Slammed Cyclist: I, Like, 'Just Don't Care'
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      • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
        Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

        One problem is, in a life or death situation you never know who will panic and only think about saving their own life. I saw a documentary about people that survived plane crashes where others died. The survivors were people that were literally tossing others aside and stepping on others to get out the emergency exits.
        We are judging the captain...from our chairs, in our homes. We weren't there. And we aren't him. He had a responsibility...and he blew it.

        But the vast majority of us aren't brave. And nothing is stronger than our sense of self preservation. Would any of us, in his position, stay until all the passengers were off the ship? It's very easy for us to imagine that we would. But most wouldn't. Instincts take over.

        His life is going to be a living hell, no matter what his punishment. Many men, knowing they were responsible for so many deaths, would simply end their own life.
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        • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
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          Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

          We are judging the captain...from our chairs, in our homes. We weren't there. And we aren't him. He had a responsibility...and he blew it.

          But the vast majority of us aren't brave. And nothing is stronger than our sense of self preservation. Would any of us, in his position, stay until all the passengers were off the ship? It's very easy for us to imagine that we would. But most wouldn't. Instincts take over.

          His life is going to be a living hell, no matter what his punishment. Many men, knowing they were responsible for so many deaths, would simply end their own life.

          But that's why "most" of us aren't Captains, fire fighters, cops and other first responders. It is a Captains' duty to coordinate the rescue of the people on his ship. This coward took one of the first lifeboats and bailed, leaving hundreds of kids to die. People who aren't willing to die saving the lives their entrusted with, should be in professions where their actions won't kill people, and I mean kill by not performing the duties you have sworn to do.
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          • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
            Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

            But that's why "most" of us aren't Captains, fire fighters, cops and other first responders. It is a Captains' duty to coordinate the rescue of the people on his ship. This coward took one of the first lifeboats and bailed, leaving hundreds of kids to die. People who aren't willing to die saving the lives their entrusted with, should be in professions where their actions won't kill people, and I mean kill by not performing the duties you have sworn to do.
            I'm guessing (and this is just a guess) that the day before this tragedy, the captain was absolutely convinced that he would do the right thing.

            What we think we are capable of doing is sometimes far different than what we are really like deep underneath.

            Was it his duty to stay and help? Absolutely.

            The vast majority of us aren't capable of selfless heroic deeds. Even if we are convinced that we are. Just because it's your job to be selfless, doesn't mean you are.

            It's just an observation.
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            • Profile picture of the author Kay King
              Somebody needs to be held accountable.
              That's what comes to mind - and it's true. But you can't know how someone will react in a crisis- no matter how much training they've had.

              This particular tragedy was a series of events - not one error. A weather delay in starting out meant the least qualified person was at the helm during a risky part of the passage.

              http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/20/wo...rway.html?_r=0

              It's a tragedy all around - for an old captain with a previously good record - to a young woman beginning a career on the ship - to all those who trusted the crew and lost their lives as a result.
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            • Profile picture of the author discrat
              Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

              I'm guessing (and this is just a guess) that the day before this tragedy, the captain was absolutely convinced that he would do the right thing.

              The vast majority of us aren't capable of selfless heroic deeds. Even if we are convinced that we are. Just because it's your job to be selfless, doesn't mean you are.

              It's just an observation.
              This is really an irrelevant observation.

              Rather what should be asked is whether Captains, Police,Fire Fighters etc...are capable of selfless heroic deeds.

              I think if you really looked hard enough and have watched enough Datelines and heard and seen stories about 911 and observed many Wars and Catastrophes in the History of Civilization you would get a bunch of people whose actions indeed refute your Observation.

              You are right ,there are definitely many people who unfortunately do not have that DNA or wiring in the brain or general makeup that predisposes them to act in selfless ways.

              I know in my Life I have a tendency to stick my nose in people's business. I have literally tackled strangers in Pubic who were beating up women. ( 2 cases actually) Sure I could have gotten shot or stabbed.

              But I do not even think about it. Its a involuntary response. I think you would be surprised to find out there are a lot of people who indeed act in selfless ways. People who are just not afraid to die.

              We have seen it over and over and over again with an array of different people from toddlers to the elderly just doing incredibly selfless heroic acts.

              It would be interesting to go back and look at ALL the ships and ferrys that capsized in the last century and see what the Captain did in these cases.

              Sorry, but I just do not think many of them acted like this coward.
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  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
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    Just heard on the news that he wasn't even at the helm when the mishap occurred and he was the first to flee in one of the few lifeboats.

    South Korea seeks arrest of Sewol ferry captain
    BBC News - South Korea seeks arrest of Sewol ferry captain
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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    Gee, I thought I responded to this I said the same as the merchant marines. The captain is supposed to be the ships leader in trying to save everyone etc... Well, it turns out there is a law ENFORCING that and the captain and 2 others have been charged with incompetence AND abandoning the ship before attempting to get everyone off the ship, and three other charges.

    The Yonhap news agency said Lee faced five charges, ranging from criminal negligence to violation of maritime law.
    S Korea ferry captain arrested, divers enter ship - Channel NewsAsia

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    • Profile picture of the author KekSudgeded
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  • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
    The captain of the Titanic - along with the band went down with the ship.
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  • Profile picture of the author waterotter
    Many men, knowing they were responsible for so many deaths, would simply end their own life.
    South Korea is behind Greenland with the third highest suicide rate globally, first among the 30 OECD countries, with the toll of suicide deaths more than doubling in the last decade. Suicide is the most common cause of death for those under 40 in South Korea.

    Suicide in South Korea
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  • Profile picture of the author Ricardo Furtado
    Did not get this news. But yes, I think you are right about the captain part.
    Regards.
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  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
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    It appears that if you're a coward and apply for jobs that may require heroics, you'll end up in jail if the worst happens and your services are needed for evacuation or rescue. As understanding as some of you are towards this Captain, I am not. If it were my children, I would expect the Captain to do the duties he signed on for and that includes coordinating evacuation in an emergency.

    I've read about many examples of heroic behavior from people on the sidelines who had no obligation to be heroic. Perhaps certain professions need to put a line in the employment ad:

    COWARDS NEED NOT APPLY
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    • Profile picture of the author kenmichaels
      Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post


      COWARDS NEED NOT APPLY
      Explain to me how you know if your a coward or not ...
      if you have not yet been put to the test.

      I don't believe anybody, really thinks they themselves are a coward.

      On top of that, what if they are heroic one day and freeze the next?

      You can have balls of steel and still have have a moment where you freeze.
      maybe that 10 seconds means people die, maybe you die. Maybe
      you man up, get over that fear and do what ya gotta do.

      actually im not sure where i am going with this thought ... so i am going to
      stop typing now ...
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      • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
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        Originally Posted by kenmichaels View Post

        Explain to me how you know if your a coward or not ...
        if you have not yet been put to the test...
        You'd better know or find a different job. As you can see, this Captain and some of the crew members are living in new quarters ... the kind with bars on them. Same with Costa Concordia captain.

        Personally, I cannot even fathom freezing up or whatever word you want to use for plain cowardice with 300 teenagers (or anyone) lives at stake, all depending on you to make the right decisions.
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    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

      It appears that if you're a coward and apply for jobs that may require heroics, you'll end up in jail if the worst happens and your services are needed for evacuation or rescue. As understanding as some of you are towards this Captain, I am not. If it were my children, I would expect the Captain to do the duties he signed on for and that includes coordinating evacuation in an emergency.

      I've read about many examples of heroic behavior from people on the sidelines who had no obligation to be heroic. Perhaps certain professions need to put a line in the employment ad:

      COWARDS NEED NOT APPLY
      Suzanne;

      You can think that someone's actions (the captain's) are unforgivable, and still look for the cause. That's my point. Telling everyone to stay put was a mistake...that cost lives. But leaving the ship when he did was unforgivable.

      In experiments where the subject thought their life was at stake, and the lives of others, there were three responses. Fight, flight, or freezing.

      Some of us absolutely know which one we are....until the time actually comes. My point is that we really don't know how we will respond until the time comes.

      We can say here...how we'll respond, but we really don't know.

      The exception may be a parent protecting their child. Because we are hard wired to do anything to protect our children. And a parent will probably react differently than a non-parent. I know my whole protective instincts kicked into high gear after we had my son.

      And exhaustion, confusion, drug use, illness...can all change our responses dramatically.

      People who apply for these high risk/responsibility jobs are generally the responsible ones who are already hard wired to react in everyone's best interest. That's just a guess.

      We aren't disagreeing here. We can judge the Captain's actions...but still understand how someone may react that way. The fact is, someone did react that way. Although unforgivable, there is always a cause.

      I won't be surprised if we hear about his suicide.
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      • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
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        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

        I won't be surprised if we hear about his suicide.
        I know you're looking for a cause, so we are not in disagreement, except that to me the cause is unforgivable and irrelevant, given the job he was supposed to do and how he reacted immediately with bailing on those kids.

        As for suicide, it wouldn't surprise me either as he tends to take the easy way out by default. I cannot imagine actually living with yourself after you've shirked your duty to over 300 people and they died as a result.
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        • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
          Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

          I know you're looking for a cause, so we are not in disagreement, except that to me the cause is unforgivable and irrelevant, given the job he was supposed to do and how he reacted immediately with bailing on those kids.

          As for suicide, it wouldn't surprise me either as he tends to take the easy way out by default. I cannot imagine actually living with yourself after you've shirked your duty to over 300 people and they died as a result.
          I wouldn't see suicide as an easy way out. How else could he punish himself for his deeds?

          It's also an example of how far we will go to obey someone we see as "in authority". Sure there were plenty of kids, but there were adults too. Were they trying to save other passengers? And what about the rest of the crew? Were there efforts to save the passengers?

          We hear about heroic deeds. the people on 9/11 that risked their lives to save others. But we never hear the stories of the vast majority, that just ran....

          Are the vast majority of us cowards? I think that's the norm. The exceptions are the brave people who act, despite the instinct to save yourself.

          We all act because of the way our brains are wired, and the experiences we've had. As a captain? Huge failure in responsibility. But it's a position, not the man. Didn't all adults on board have a responsibility to help save lives?


          Anyway, it's just the way I think.
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          • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
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            Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

            I wouldn't see suicide as an easy way out. How else could he punish himself for his deeds?
            Living the rest of his life in jail or as an outcast in the community that lost so many children would be worse than a quick, painless death.

            Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

            It's also an example of how far we will go to obey someone we see as "in authority". Sure there were plenty of kids, but there were adults too. Were they trying to save other passengers? And what about the rest of the crew? Were there efforts to save the passengers?
            Several crew members are also under arrest. The adults and kids were following the Captains' orders to stay put, as he was waving good-bye to the poor suckers.

            Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

            We hear about heroic deeds. the people on 9/11 that risked their lives to save others. But we never hear the stories of the vast majority, that just ran....

            Are the vast majority of us cowards? I think that's the norm. The exceptions are the brave people who act, despite the instinct to save yourself.

            We all act because of the way our brains are wired, and the experiences we've had. As a captain? Huge failure in responsibility. But it's a position, not the man. Didn't all adults on board have a responsibility to help save lives?
            As I mentioned, they were all told to stay put and were probably under the impression that there was a good reason for that order. I address the Captain and the crew because it was their job to evacuate and rescue as many people as possible. They were paid to do that and likely trained to do that. The majority of the ones killed were teens who were undoubtedly scared shitless and doing what the Captain told them to do.

            South Korean shipwreck survivors: Passengers told 'don't move' as ship sank

            Passengers aboard a sinking South Korean ferry faced a terrifying choice as the vessel rolled: obey commands barked over loudspeakers to stay in place, or don life vests and jump into the chilly ocean water.

            "Don't move," a voice warned, according to a recording obtained by CNN affiliate YTN. "If you move, it's dangerous. Don't move."

            That announcement, some witnesses worried, may have cost some passengers on the ferry Sewol their lives.

            "Kids were forced to stay put," one survivor told CNN affiliate YTN, "so only some of those who moved survived."

            As rescuers searched the frigid water for nearly 300 people who remained unaccounted for, witnesses told horrific stories of their final minutes on the sinking ship.

            "We were told to stay where you are, so we kept staying," survivor Hyun Hung Chang told YTN. "But later on, the water level came up. So we were beside ourselves. Kids were screaming out of terror, shouting for help."

            At least some of those who jumped or made their way to the top of the ship were rescued. Helicopter crews plucked some from the deck.

            Others were pulled from the water by rescuers aboard the multitude of fishing boats and military vessels that raced to the scene as the ship rolled over and capsized.

            "I had to swim a bit to get to the boat to be rescued," Lim Hyung Min, one of more than 300 Seoul high school students who was aboard the ship for a four-day field trip, told CNN affiliate YTN. "The water was so cold and I wanted to live."
            One mother shared a text message she said her son apparently sent hours after the ferry sunk.

            "Can't see a thing, it's totally dark," the message said. "We are not dead yet, so please send along this message."
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            • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
              Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

              As I mentioned, they were all told to stay put and were probably under the impression that there was a good reason for that order. I address the Captain and the crew because it was their job to evacuate and rescue as many people as possible. They were paid to do that and likely trained to do that. The majority of the ones killed were teens who were undoubtedly scared shitless and doing what the Captain told them to do.
              Man, I keep trying to put an unemotional view on this.....and really, maybe there isn't an unemotional view to be had. How would you process something like this? I don't know. I try to see all viewpoints..but, you're making a very strong case.

              I just can't even imagine what these kids went through.
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          • Profile picture of the author Kurt
            Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

            I wouldn't see suicide as an easy way out. How else could he punish himself for his deeds?

            It's also an example of how far we will go to obey someone we see as "in authority". Sure there were plenty of kids, but there were adults too. Were they trying to save other passengers? And what about the rest of the crew? Were there efforts to save the passengers?

            We hear about heroic deeds. the people on 9/11 that risked their lives to save others. But we never hear the stories of the vast majority, that just ran....

            Are the vast majority of us cowards? I think that's the norm. The exceptions are the brave people who act, despite the instinct to save yourself.

            We all act because of the way our brains are wired, and the experiences we've had. As a captain? Huge failure in responsibility. But it's a position, not the man. Didn't all adults on board have a responsibility to help save lives?


            Anyway, it's just the way I think.
            Some of this probably would depend on the situation. If it was a fire, I would likely be calm enough able to go into a burning building and try to save someone.

            However, if the situation involved heights (or grasshoppers), I would probably be the first to panic and try to push Claude off the ledge first so I'd have a soft place to land.
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  • Profile picture of the author waterotter
    It's also an example of how far we will go to obey someone we see as "in authority". Sure there were plenty of kids, but there were adults too. Were they trying to save other passengers? And what about the rest of the crew? Were there efforts to save the passengers?
    Unfortunately, it's not looking good for the crew.

    Authorities said Monday that four more crew members of the ferry have been detained, bringing the total number arrested to seven.
    Two first helmsmen, one second helmsman and the chief engineer are now under arrest, said Yang Joong-jin, the chief prosecutor of the investigation. He said the four crew members could face indictment on several charges.
    Source: South Korean President: Actions of sunken ferry captain 'akin to murder'

    I have to wonder if anyone was taking the lead, or did they all jump ship?
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  • Profile picture of the author waterotter
    This particular tragedy was a series of events - not one error. A weather delay in starting out meant the least qualified person was at the helm during a risky part of the passage.
    I respectfully agree to disagree. "Authority" figures, no matter what the situation is, are trained to deal with such events. The weather delay may have complicated matters, but the Captain was in charge and should have acted accordingly. Furthermore, why leave an inexperienced third mate at the helm during the worst part of the voyage?
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      To me, that was the critical error - the least experienced crew member in charge while the boat was in the most difficult area to navigate.

      That was due to a delay in departure that made the crew rotation previously scheduled not work as it should have. The captain should have caught that and changed the rotation.

      Complacency can also be a factor in how people react in a crisis. When you a job for many years with no problems, you may forget how risky it can be. They arrested more of the crew today.

      I know one thing - if I'm in a crisis situation and I'm told "stay in place" - I won't follow that advice blindly.
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  • Profile picture of the author Kurt
    A problem with blindly blaming the crew is that they could have been in a bad position. Maritime laws are very sctrict about not following orders and taking action without the Captain's orders could be considered mutiny.

    This is another reason that the chain of command stays intact as much as possible. There could have been crew ready to launch the lifeboats, waiting for the command, but afraid if they did without a direct command that they'd could be in lots of trouble.

    We don't have enough info to make a good judgement, but I have a big problem with the captain getting in a life boat and not ordering all the other lifeboats to be launched. To some degree I understand his panic and him getting in the first lifeboat. (I'm not excusing this action.) But once he felt he needed to get into a lifeboat, not ordering the launch of all the other lifeboats while he took the place of women and children in the first lifeboat is way beyond the pale.
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  • Profile picture of the author Sarevok
    Absolutely.

    Captains have an obligation to remain on board until everyone's safe.

    Additional notes:
    The modern U.S. code, according to a professor at Florida's Coastal School of Law interviewed byNPR, states that the captain is "legally required to render assistance to every single person trying to get off that ship, and also identify those people who may have been killed in the incident."
    I remember listening to audio of the Italian Captain who "Fell into a lifeboat"...

    The local maritime authorities were COMMANDING him to get back into the boat... He came up with some excuse or claimed he was unable...

    (Hey maybe I'm wrong. Maybe he really DID "trip" into the lifeboat).

    Source and works cited:
    Report: Captain claims he "tripped" into lifeboat - CBS News
    Are captains required to go down with their ships?
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    • Profile picture of the author waterotter
      Originally Posted by Sarevok View Post

      Absolutely.

      Captains have an obligation to remain on board until everyone's safe.

      Additional notes:


      I remember listening to audio of the Italian Captain who "Fell into a lifeboat"...

      The local maritime authorities were COMMANDING him to get back into the boat... He came up with some excuse or claimed he was unable...

      (Hey maybe I'm wrong. Maybe he really DID "trip" into the lifeboat).

      Source and works cited:
      Report: Captain claims he "tripped" into lifeboat - CBS News
      Are captains required to go down with their ships?
      "I didn't even have a life jacket because I had given it to one of the passengers. I was trying to get people to get into the boats in an orderly fashion. Suddenly, since the ship was at a 60 to 70 degree angle, I tripped and I ended up in one of the boats. That's how I found myself in the lifeboat."
      Source: Report: Captain claims he "tripped" into lifeboat

      I don't believe this for one second. There were clear photos/videos of the Captain, wearing a life jacket, abandoning the ship onto the first rescue boat.
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    I don't understand how someone could not know their own mind better than being surprised at their reactions to emergency circumstances - especially with training. I'm sorry. We know whether we have some cowardice in us.....or just not enough care about others not to intervene in certain circumstances. We can say "you just never know" all you want. I don't buy it. I think anyone who has reached their inner depths at all knows damned well how they will react. With me, the ones that jelly me out have heights involved. I would not ever take a job I had to be involved in keeping order at extreme heights (abrupt edges get me - slopes are okay). Other types of emergencies, I have known I would be okay in - and have reacted just fine in. We know. We might want to hide from ourselves or others and say we don't, but we do.

    I don't buy that this guy "panicked". I buy that he was just more worried about his own butt more than he cared if anyone else got out alive or not. You don't "surprisingly" take the first chance to bail and leave a whole ship full of people because after training for your job and years of experience at sea you just "panick". He didn't care. He left without making any appropriate orders or helping at all.

    As far as the crew - once that captain bailed, they were not any longer obligated to heed one word the little rat said. He abandoned them and they should have been sharp enough to get some lifeboats down at the very least.

    This whole thing sounds like it was not a real crew at all. Sounds like people just got pulled off the street and stuck in a uniform. Absolutely unbelievable. Had the captain stuck around even long enough to make sure there were a lot of lifeboats in the water I'd be a little more forgiving, but to hesitate to take the right action for so long then the first one you do take is to save your own little rear end and leave everyone else to die is beyond comprehension?

    Will he commit suicide? Hell no. He's already shown he has a terminal lack of fortitude. As long as he's comfy, he's not going to start caring about what anyone else thinks. People of his nature only talk about being embarrassed and ashamed so that people will forgive their nasty little selfishness. Don't let him fool you - he's just glad he made it out, and that's as far as his little mind goes.
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    • Profile picture of the author discrat
      I just cannot imagine turning around after you get on a Lifeboat and watch your ship you are responsible for go down with that many innocent youngsters and not want to throw yourself overboard.

      It just defies logic.

      I am like you I just don't buy this well ' you never know how you might act ' mentality either

      Not when your 69 years old and in charge of over 300 young people

      The way I look at it is if you are a full grown adult and in any kind of distressful situation with younger people then you put your arse on the line for them.



      It is as simple as that, If you are not wired or conditioned to do such a thing then just do not put yourself in such a position to begin with.
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      • Profile picture of the author Kurt
        Originally Posted by discrat View Post

        I just cannot imagine turning around after you get on a Lifeboat and watch your ship you are responsible for go down with that many innocent youngsters and not want to throw yourself overboard.

        It just defies logic.

        I am like you I just don't buy this well ' you never know how you might act ' mentality either

        Not when your 69 years old and in charge of over 300 young people

        The way I look at it is if you are a full grown adult and in any kind of distressful situation with younger people then you put your arse on the line for them.


        It is as simple as that, If you are not wired or conditioned to do such a thing then just do not put yourself in such a position to begin with.
        You are not discussing my point, that you disagreed with above. You seem to have confused "wanting to" and "doing".

        And "feelings" are emotional, not always logcial. The greatest, most powerful instinct in people is the desire to survive. Heroes over-come this instinct, others don't.


        There are very few heroes that want to die. Their goal is to save others AND themselves. They have the same instinct to survive that others have.

        To say you don't understand why someone would want to save their own life doesn't make any sense at all.

        You seem to be confusing someone wanting to save themselves with doing the right or wrong thing. You also seem to think that I believe that wanting to save your own life is a defense of any kind, either legal or moral. It's not.

        I simply understand why the Captain wanted to do what he did, but am in NO WAY defending what he did. There's a big difference.
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    • Profile picture of the author Kurt
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post


      As far as the crew - once that captain bailed, they were not any longer obligated to heed one word the little rat said. He abandoned them and they should have been sharp enough to get some lifeboats down at the very least.
      .
      Your ignorance is showing. Once a captain abandon's ship, it isn't a free for all. There's still a command line.

      If the Captain is unable to command the crew, the Chief Engineer takes control of the ship, then the First Mate, then the First Engineer, second mate, second engineer, etc.

      In this particular situation, the Chief Engineer was probably below deck trying to do what he can to fix or limit the damage. He was very likely trapped below deck and had no idea the Captain had abdonded ship.

      The First Mate should have taken control at this point. Once he/she knew the Captain left the boat, it may have been too late to launch the lifeboats. A boat can only list so much before launching the lifeboats becomes impossible.

      I prefer to at least hear the crew's stories before judging them.
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  • Profile picture of the author derekwong28
    S. Korea has arrested the whole surviving steering crew for negligence and failing to protect passengers.

    By the owner, the ferry owner has a very colorful history.
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    • Profile picture of the author Kurt
      Originally Posted by derekwong28 View Post

      S. Korea has arrested the whole surviving steering crew for negligence and failing to protect passengers.

      By the owner, the ferry owner has a very colorful history.
      I really hope they're not just looking for scapegoats, although I just noticed Derek's post mentions "steering crew" and not all of the crew.

      I just read an article that talked about some heroic acts made by some of the crew members, one of which was found dead floating in the water.
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  • Profile picture of the author ErinWalsh
    Apparently there's safety issues with this ferry line. They looked at the ferry's sister ship and found that a full *40* life boats weren't functioning. This makes me paint the captain in an even MORE unfavorable light. What if the *1* life boat that was launched was the only working life boat and the captain knew it?

    Here's a link to the story: Rescuers describe harrowing ferry search | News - Home
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    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      Originally Posted by ErinWalsh View Post

      Apparently there's safety issues with this ferry line. They looked at the ferry's sister ship and found that a full *40* life boats weren't functioning. This makes me paint the captain in an even MORE unfavorable light. What if the *1* life boat that was launched was the only working life boat and the captain knew it?
      And what if we just stuck to the facts?
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