U.S. Admin Brings Home Last Remaining Afghan Pow...

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But not without controversy...


Jay Carney On US-Taliban Deal: Bowe Bergdahl 'Was Not A Hostage'


- Supposedly Afghan President Karzai was kept in the Dark.

- Lots of questions swirl around this situation.

- Congress was informed that this might happen.

- Some say laws were broken.

- Was the soldier a deserter?

Fellow soldiers call Bowe Bergdahl a deserter, not a hero - CNN.com

- Was he a hostage or a POW?

- The bad guys must remain the Qutar for at least a year before they can be released.


I'm glad he's home. It was nice the see the POTUS with his parents in the Rose Garden with the Dad sporting a long beard in solidarity with his son.

TL
  • Profile picture of the author Kay King
    I don't think Carney has any more rep to lose - poor guy has had to come up with some good ones recently. He's creative but not credible.

    We traded five prisoners who were NAMED as "some of the most dangerous at Gitmo" - without approval from Congress. That is a first - not saying it's good or bad because I don't know.

    Two years ago we refused to do exactly this - so basically we gave in and negotiated with terrorists.

    I do think after five years this prisoner deserves to tell his side of the story before the media and military condemn him.
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    • Profile picture of the author ThomM
      Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

      I don't think Carney has any more rep to lose - poor guy has had to come up with some good ones recently. He's creative but not credible.

      We traded five prisoners who were NAMED as "some of the most dangerous at Gitmo" - without approval from Congress. That is a first - not saying it's good or bad because I don't know.

      Two years ago we refused to do exactly this - so basically we gave in and negotiated with terrorists.


      I do think after five years this prisoner deserves to tell his side of the story before the media and military condemn him.
      I'm taking a wait and see approach to all this.
      My biggest concern is that those released will amp things up to get revenge.
      My biggest hope is that it will open doors for other peaceful ways to settle things without the use of violence.
      I think the president took a huge risk, but I really do hope it pays off.
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      • Profile picture of the author seasoned
        Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

        I'm taking a wait and see approach to all this.
        My biggest concern is that those released will amp things up to get revenge.
        My biggest hope is that it will open doors for other peaceful ways to settle things without the use of violence.
        I think the president took a huge risk, but I really do hope it pays off.
        It paid off for the terrorists!

        Steve
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      • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
        Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

        I'm taking a wait and see approach to all this.
        My biggest concern is that those released will amp things up to get revenge.
        My biggest hope is that it will open doors for other peaceful ways to settle things without the use of violence.
        I think the president took a huge risk, but I really do hope it pays off.
        I think it's a huge political risk. More downside than upside for the POTUS, as far as reactions go.
        Who knows what went on before the decision was made. Some will applaud this, without thought. Some will condemn this, without thought.

        And some will wait for more facts.
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        • Profile picture of the author ThomM
          Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

          I think it's a huge political risk. More downside than upside for the POTUS, as far as reactions go.
          Who knows what went on before the decision was made. Some will applaud this, without thought. Some will condemn this, without thought.

          And some will wait for more facts.
          That's why I'm taking a wait and see approach before I condemn or applaud it.
          Yes it is a huge political risk for the president, but so what?
          It's not like he can run again.
          We all take risks from time to time that can have devastating results if they don't work, that's why they are called a risk.
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        • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
          What concerns me the most, over and beyond the fact that 5 dangerous terrorists were released and the fact that we backed down on our stance of not negotiating with terrorists and the fact that this was done covertly without Congress being privy or having a say in it is that if this act goes without being dealt with, then what will the POTUS plan to do next?

          Anyone in a position of power testing the waters to see if they can get away with an inch will attempt to take a mile. It's human nature and starts when we're just little kids. What is the next covert, not kosher shall we say, plan of action? Will it be for the benefit of "we the people" or for the leader, personally?

          What is the government? (A blatant set up to a joke, here)


          A teacher was teaching her second grade class about the government, so for homework that day, she told her students to ask their parents what the government is.

          When Little Johnny got home that day, he went up to his dad and asked him what the government was. His dad thought for a while and answered, "Look at it this way. I'm the President, your mom is Congress, your maid is the work force, you are the people and your baby brother is the future."

          "I still don't get it" responded the Little Johnny.

          "Why don't you sleep on it then? Maybe you'll understand it better in the morning," said the dad.

          "Okay then...good night" said Little Johnny and went off to bed.

          In the middle of the night, Little Johnny was awakened by his baby brother's crying. He went to his baby brother's crib and found that his baby brother had taken a crap in his diaper. So Little Johnny went to his parent's room to get help. When he got to his parent's bedroom, he looked through the keyhole to check if his parents were asleep. Through the keyhole he saw his mom loudly snoring, but his dad wasn't there.

          So he went to the maid's room. When he looked through the maid's room keyhole, he saw his dad having sex with his maid. Little Johnny was surprised, but then he just realized something and thought out-loud , "OH!! Now I understand the government! The President is screwing the work force, Congress is fast asleep, nobody cares about the people, and the future is full of sh*t!"


          Sorry, I couldn't help myself.

          Terra
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          • Profile picture of the author ThomM
            Originally Posted by MissTerraK View Post

            What concerns me the most, over and beyond the fact that 5 dangerous terrorists were released and the fact that we backed down on our stance of not negotiating with terrorists and the fact that this was done covertly without Congress being privy or having a say in it is that if this act goes without being dealt with, then what will the POTUS plan to do next?

            Anyone in a position of power testing the waters to see if they can get away with an inch will attempt to take a mile. It's human nature and starts when we're just little kids. What is the next covert, not kosher shall we say, plan of action? Will it be for the benefit of "we the people" or for the leader, personally?

            What is the government? (A blatant set up to a joke, here)


            A teacher was teaching her second grade class about the government, so for homework that day, she told her students to ask their parents what the government is.

            When Little Johnny got home that day, he went up to his dad and asked him what the government was. His dad thought for a while and answered, "Look at it this way. I'm the President, your mom is Congress, your maid is the work force, you are the people and your baby brother is the future."

            "I still don't get it" responded the Little Johnny.

            "Why don't you sleep on it then? Maybe you'll understand it better in the morning," said the dad.

            "Okay then...good night" said Little Johnny and went off to bed.

            In the middle of the night, Little Johnny was awakened by his baby brother's crying. He went to his baby brother's crib and found that his baby brother had taken a crap in his diaper. So Little Johnny went to his parent's room to get help. When he got to his parent's bedroom, he looked through the keyhole to check if his parents were asleep. Through the keyhole he saw his mom loudly snoring, but his dad wasn't there.

            So he went to the maid's room. When he looked through the maid's room keyhole, he saw his dad having sex with his maid. Little Johnny was surprised, but then he just realized something and thought out-loud , "OH!! Now I understand the government! The President is screwing the work force, Congress is fast asleep, nobody cares about the people, and the future is full of sh*t!"


            Sorry, I couldn't help myself.

            Terra
            Nailed it.
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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    A hostage is something, of another's, held to control to NEGOTIATIONS of the other person/entity.

    The definition google gives is: "a person seized or held as security for the fulfillment of a condition."

    SO, Bob Berdahl CAN be considered a HOSTAGE!!!!!!!!!!

    A negotiation is a game of give and take.

    The definition google gives is "the act of negotiating." THAT says:

    1. try to reach an agreement or compromise by discussion with others.
    "his government's willingness to negotiate"
    2.
    find a way over or through (an obstacle or difficult path).

    Anyway, escrow, distributor, dealer, etc... WHO CARES! WHO GOT WHAT?

    HERE....

    1. US got bergdahl
    2. Al quida(sp?) got the 5 terrorists.

    So YEP, the US broke a policy! They negotiated with terrorists. As for "we never leave our own"? They DID leave him! For FIVE YEARS! HEY, they didn't bargain with iran? There were people that died supposedly because no deals were made. What happened to "the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few"? As for prisoner, he seemed to have a lot of freedom. Some things that he said/did, freedoms he had, and things his father apparently said, are being said.

    Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    Anyway, TWO ways to look at this! Take your pick.

    1. We traded 5 terrorists for a deserter.
    2. We traded 5 terrorists for a traitor.

    What Carney said was a flat out LIE! EVERYONE knows that even if the people doing the bargaining were 100% honest(we know they AREN'T), and wanted to stick to the agreement, they will likely be replaced, and likely in a coup. ALSO, there are OTHER ways of defeating this. So what he said simply couldn't be true. It would be like saying there will be PEACE in the world because you had agreements to that effect.

    Did YOU know that there WAS such an agreement to prevent WWII!?!?!?!? The treaty of versailles! Sadly, it was too harsh and really ENCOURAGED a coup, and they simply IGNORED it! But how many other such treaties came before that? Even ones AFTER that have been broken. Yet we are to believe THIS is different!

    Steve
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    • Profile picture of the author ThomM
      Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

      Anyway, TWO ways to look at this! Take your pick.

      1. We traded 5 terrorists for a deserter.
      2. We traded 5 terrorists for a traitor.



      Steve
      I even have mixed feelings on that.
      On the one hand I applaud him for seeing the results of our actions there and taking a stand against them.
      Where I have a real problem with that is, you don't do something that will put the lives of others at risk.
      I've heard that six soldiers lost their lives while searching for him. He should be charged and go on trial.
      Also if those released by us do go back to their old ways and any lives are lost because of it, then the President should go on trial and be held accountable.
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      • Profile picture of the author seasoned
        Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

        I even have mixed feelings on that.
        On the one hand I applaud him for seeing the results of our actions there and taking a stand against them.
        Where I have a real problem with that is, you don't do something that will put the lives of others at risk.
        I've heard that six soldiers lost their lives while searching for him. He should be charged and go on trial.
        Also if those released by us do go back to their old ways and any lives are lost because of it, then the President should go on trial and be held accountable.
        Apparently he told another soldier that if it was a "lame mission" he was just going to leave and head for the hills in pakistan! He later indicated he hated the US and DID consider it senseless, etc...

        And technically he wasn't "CAUGHT". In this context, caught makes it sound like he was some soldier that was captured during a battle or something while armed. He "wandered" out UNARMED!

        Though I haven't heard ANYTHING disputed yet, the wandered out unarmed part apparently is stipulated, and accepted.

        INTERESTING:

        In his five years of captivity, Army Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl was never listed by the Pentagon as a prisoner of war.

        Nor has the U.S. applied that term to any of its Taliban prisoners -- including the five senior Taliban figures who were released last weekend from detention at the U.S. detention center at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, in exchange for Bergdahl's freedom.

        A look at how that process works:

        -- After disappearing in eastern Afghanistan in June 2009, Bergdahl was listed by the Pentagon on July 1, 2009, as "duty status whereabouts unknown." Two days later his status was changed to "missing/captured," and it did not change again prior to his release.

        -- The Pentagon defines "missing/captured" as a member of the armed forces who has been "seized as the result of action of an unfriendly military or paramilitary force in a foreign country." Some would say that amounts to being a POW. For purposes of reporting and recording the status of service members, the Pentagon some years ago stopped using the term "prisoner of war," although it awards a POW Medal for eligible service members and it has a Defense POW/Missing Persons Office.

        -- The POW issue for American troops in Afghanistan stands in contrast to past U.S. conflicts such as World War II or the Korean War because Afghanistan is not technically at war with the U.S. or any other state. The "enemy" forces in Afghanistan are mainly the Taliban, which are considered a "non-state armed group."
        If it is a non state armed group, shouldn't they have the STATE deal with it!?!?!?

        Steve
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        • Profile picture of the author ThomM
          Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

          Apparently he told another soldier that if it was a "lame mission" he was just going to leave and head for the hills in pakistan! He later indicated he hated the US and DID consider it senseless, etc...

          And technically he wasn't "CAUGHT". In this context, caught makes it sound like he was some soldier that was captured during a battle or something while armed. He "wandered" out UNARMED!

          Though I haven't heard ANYTHING disputed yet, the wandered out unarmed part apparently is stipulated, and accepted.

          INTERESTING:



          If it is a non state armed group, shouldn't they have the STATE deal with it!?!?!?

          Steve
          I was watching a little of a show on PBS3 last night an it was someone following a squad around Afghanistan or Iraq. They where on patrol commenting on how lame it was and that they shouldn't be there.

          If Afghanistan took care of it he'd still be there,lol.
          But really there are so many angles to this, that it's kind of tough for me to really wrap my head around.
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          • Profile picture of the author seasoned
            Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

            If Afghanistan took care of it he'd still be there,lol.
            I meant the WHOLE battle! Bowe wouldn't even have gone.

            Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    What I'm waiting for is Congress's reaction. This POTUS has a habit of skirting legal procedure and he was almost impeached once for it (Libya). Not sure how much more "risk" taking they're going to allow from this guy.
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      I agree with Terra.

      This isn't the kind of risk where YOU suffer or do without something if YOUR decision is wrong. It's the kind of risk where others who had no say in the matter could be harmed if your decision is wrong. Making a decision like that is a heavy responsibility.

      The hesitant part for me is these five were judged a couple years ago as the most dangerous prisoners held at Gitmo. If they weren't all that dangerous, why have they been held this long? If they are that dangerous, why would anyone release them?
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      • Profile picture of the author ThomM
        Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

        I agree with Terra.

        This isn't the kind of risk where YOU suffer or do without something if YOUR decision is wrong. It's the kind of risk where others who had no say in the matter could be harmed if your decision is wrong. Making a decision like that is a heavy responsibility.

        The hesitant part for me is these five were judged a couple years ago as the most dangerous prisoners held at Gitmo. If they weren't all that dangerous, why have they been held this long? If they are that dangerous, why would anyone release them?
        That's one of the reasons I'm not making any judgments yet.
        For all we know the CIA could already have a plan in place to watch them and at different times take one out making it look like an accident or that it was done by someone else, lol.

        What I'm saying is we don't really know what's going on other then what we are told.
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      • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
        Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

        I agree with Terra.

        This isn't the kind of risk where YOU suffer or do without something if YOUR decision is wrong. It's the kind of risk where others who had no say in the matter could be harmed if your decision is wrong. Making a decision like that is a heavy responsibility.

        The hesitant part for me is these five were judged a couple years ago as the most dangerous prisoners held at Gitmo. If they weren't all that dangerous, why have they been held this long? If they are that dangerous, why would anyone release them?
        We're not the only ones concerned about their release. Some Afghanistans are as well.

        (Reuters) -The release of five Taliban prisoners in exchange for a U.S. soldier has drawn criticism from some Afghans, who say the detainees are dangerous and will rekindle ties with terrorist networks to resume fighting, just as most foreign troops leave. The men had been held at the U.S. naval base at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba since 2002 and were classed by the Pentagon as "high-risk" and "likely to pose a threat"...

        "They will definitely go back to fight, if health-wise they are able to go," said a top official at Afghanistan's spy agency, who asked to remain anonymous because of the sensitivity of the topic. "They will be very dangerous people, because they have connections with regional and international terror organizations around the world."
        Terra
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      What I'm waiting for is Congress's reaction. This POTUS has a habit of skirting legal procedure and he was almost impeached once for it (Libya). Not sure how much more "risk" taking they're going to allow from this guy.
      Well, MANY figure even if they COULD impeach, which isn't possible since the senate would levy the charge, that then BIDEN would become president. MOST that want impeachment are hardpressed as to which would be worse. Many in the GOP ARE angry, since CONGRESS is to work with such things. Almost ALL DEMs ignore it. The admin says congress has no place in anything because the president is the commander and chief. NOT TRUE! CONGRESS declares wars, works on treaties, etc... The president is the head dignitary and kind of oversees the military. It is COMMANDER AND CHIEF, NOT KING! HECK, even most KINGS AND QUEENS in the world today don't REALLY have that much power!

      Article II, Section 2, Clause 2 of the United States Constitution, includes the Treaty Clause, which empowers the President of the United States to propose and chiefly negotiate agreements between the United States and other countries, which become treaties between the United States and other countries after the advice and consent of a supermajority of the United States Senate.
      Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
    I just finished talking to the 92 year old father of my next door neighbor who also happens to be a WW2 vet who spent time in a German POW camp.

    He says either the soldier was sick in the head or something really, really bad was going on with his immediate outfit.

    He can't believe a soldier would simply walk into the hands of the enemy unless one of the above reasons is true.
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  • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
    Military History Expert Ret. Col. Peter Mansor:

    "This Is A Legitimate Prisoner Swap." From USA Today:

    "This is a legitimate prisoner swap," said Peter Mansoor, a retired Army colonel and professor of military history at Ohio State University.

    He pointed out that the Taliban was ruling Afghanistan when U.S. forces went in to topple the government after Sept. 11, 2001.

    "I would have much more heartburn if these were al-Qaeda leaders" that were released, Mansoor said.

    [USA Today, 6/2/14]


    Media Pretends Claim That Negotiations Over Bergdahl Release Were Unprecedented | Research | Media Matters for America
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      It doesn't need to be explained. There are dozens of articles/news stories about it already from any partisan point of view that suits you.

      I'm glad he's coming home - I hope the decision is legitimate. If the five kill more Americans in the future - the decision will go down in history and not in a good way.

      The real story for me is this: If you assume the authority to make a decision, have the guts to own the risk rather than trying to say there is no risk. That applies to anyone/everyone associated with making this prisoner exchange decision.
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      • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
        Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

        If the five kill more Americans in the future - the decision will go down in history and not in a good way.
        Or if others to decide to kidnap/capture more Americans now because they think they can negotiate with us.
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  • Profile picture of the author garyv
    What further information is needed? The Taliban is a documented terrorist organization, and we brokered negotiations with them.

    As a soldier, I'd rather die in captivity than to know that I was being traded for 5 terrorists. Especially knowing that these terrorists have killed many Americans already.

    The only thing I can see salvaging this, is a drone attack upon the release of these 5.

    And the BS about us never leaving POWs behind kind of assumes that no one alive remembers Vietnam.

    White House Can't Agree On Calling Bergdahl A 'Hostage' | The Daily Caller
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      Reportedly there were six military personnel lost trying to save this guy after he was grabbed.

      I remember when he first disappeared and members of his own unit were convinced he was a deserter. Will be interesting to hear his side of what happened when he went missing five years ago.
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    • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
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      Originally Posted by garyv View Post

      As a soldier, I'd rather die in captivity than to know that I was being traded for 5 terrorists.
      Did you ever serve in combat? Ever been held in captivity? Your proclamation is easy to deliver from your cushy armchair while sipping your cappuccino.

      I'm not taking either side of this story until I have all the facts as this is a mighty deep subject for my shallow little mind, but I wonder if it were me, if I would have rather died than been brought home. I think most honest individuals would state that they would want their country to to anything in its power to get them reunited with their loved ones.

      I hope that some day I can reach the level of personal bravery that you profess to be blessed with. You're a helluva better man than myself.

      Cheers. - Frank

      P.S. I DO remember Vietnam. I served in combat during the Tet Offensive. Yeah - I remember, though I mightily wish that I could forget.
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      • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
        I really don't know the facts other than what I've read here and seen on the news so take that as a caveat.

        Wandering into the desert sounds a bit of a mental issue, PTSD or similar. Anyone sane should know that at best if the Taliban got you, which they will if you wander into the bush, will be long term torture and a prisoner they'd use as a bargaining chip. Remember you are a swine of an infidel that needs keeping alive for the fun of torture to them. At worst they'll skin you on the internet or cut your head off slowly with a small blade.

        One isn't dealing with Geneva Convention followers. To them you are quite simply repugnant scum deserving of nothing on their Earth. I know that, any soldier of a sound mind out there definitely knows that.

        I don't of course know if that's true or how he fell into their hands.

        Believe me though, those 5 being released is one pile of poo of a problem now and no one will ever know where they even are. I'm sure they're very busy as I type this though.

        Originally Posted by BigFrank View Post

        P.S. I DO remember Vietnam. I served in combat during the Tet Offensive. Yeah - I remember, though I mightily wish that I could forget.
        That's what I mean Frank, unless unwell in the head, you wouldn't wander into the Vietnamese jungle unarmed.

        ...and Frank, Steve is probably as calm as a whistle, he just likes to use caps a lot.
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        • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
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          Originally Posted by Richard Van View Post

          ...and Frank, Steve is probably as calm as a whistle, he just likes to use caps a lot.
          I'm not so sure. He reminds me of myself during the time I took psychotropic drugs to treat my PTSD. I woke up in the morning, livid and I went to bed each night, incensed. During my waking hours I was a festering pustule that oozed unbridled loathing for anything that breathed.

          Ah, now those were the good 'ol days.

          Cheers. - Frank
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          • Profile picture of the author seasoned
            Originally Posted by BigFrank View Post

            I'm not so sure. He reminds me of myself during the time I took psychotropic drugs to treat my PTSD. I woke up in the morning, livid and I went to bed each night, incensed. During my waking hours I was a festering pustule that oozed unbridled loathing for anything that breathed.

            Ah, now those were the good 'ol days.

            Cheers. - Frank
            They SAY admitting it is the first step! You're on your way I guess!

            Steve
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            • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
              Banned
              Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

              They SAY admitting it is the first step! You're on your way I guess!

              Steve
              It sure beats living in a constant state of denial.

              Cheers. - Frank
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              • Profile picture of the author Kay King
                Susan Rice - again. She presented Bergdahl as a military person who had "served with distinction".

                That doesn't fit what the military and his unit is saying about him. Rice is obviously primed to say whatever she's told - think she'd be more careful, wouldn't you?

                This has to be sad for the Pres, too - he thought he was doing a service to negotiate this release and looks like someone didn't do much research beforehand.

                When not one person who served with Bergdahl or commanded him has anything good to say....it's a problem.
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                • Profile picture of the author seasoned
                  Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                  Susan Rice - again. She presented Bergdahl as a military person who had "served with distinction".

                  That doesn't fit what the military and his unit is saying about him. Rice is obviously primed to say whatever she's told - think she'd be more careful, wouldn't you?

                  This has to be sad for the Pres, too - he thought he was doing a service to negotiate this release and looks like someone didn't do much research beforehand.

                  When not one person who served with Bergdahl or commanded him has anything good to say....it's a problem.
                  Makes you wonder who is REALLY running the country, huh?

                  Oh THEY can't do anything to us, because we told them to lay low for a year, or we told them to make sure they didn't go far.

                  YEAH, THAT will work! (SARC)

                  Steve
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              • Profile picture of the author seasoned
                Originally Posted by BigFrank View Post

                It sure beats living in a constant state of denial.

                Cheers. - Frank
                That can be your next step!
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        • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
          Originally Posted by Richard Van View Post

          I really don't know the facts other than what I've read here and seen on the news so take that as a caveat.

          Wandering into the desert sounds a bit of a mental issue, PTSD or similar. Anyone sane should know that at best if the Taliban got you, which they will if you wander into the bush, will be long term torture and a prisoner they'd use as a bargaining chip. Remember you are a swine of an infidel that needs keeping alive for the fun of torture to them. At worst they'll skin you on the internet or cut your head off slowly with a small blade.

          One isn't dealing with Geneva Convention followers. To them you are quite simply repugnant scum deserving of nothing on their Earth. I know that, any soldier of a sound mind out there definitely knows that.

          I don't of course know if that's true or how he fell into their hands.

          Believe me though, those 5 being released is one pile of poo of a problem now and no one will ever know where they even are. I'm sure they're very busy as I type this though.



          That's what I mean Frank, unless unwell in the head, you wouldn't wander into the Vietnamese jungle unarmed.

          ...and Frank, Steve is probably as calm as a whistle, he just likes to use caps a lot.
          FYI...

          As part of the deal, the gov of Qatar has promised to keep the 5 for a year before releasing them.
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          • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
            Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

            As part of the deal, the gov of Qatar has promised to keep the 5 for a year before releasing them.
            I'm aware of that TL but thanks.

            I was just reading this...

            BBC News - How Qatar came to host the Taliban

            Particularly snippets like this...

            But the number of Taliban representatives and their activities in Qatar have gradually increased. There are now more than 20 relatively high-ranking Taliban members who live here with their families.
            Having said that, they are Afghani Taliban who are very different from the Pakistani Taliban and I believe the 5 released were Afghans. Having read that, there's a lot less chance they'll be out for revenge, the Afghan section does seem to genuinely want an end to it and are distancing themselves from the Pakistani elements.

            I was speaking a little rashly earlier but my point stands, no American, soldier or otherwise, wants to fall into any of the Taliban's hands. Granted though, I'm more relieved about the five released prisoners having absorbed a few more facts. Hence my caveat at the beginning of my first post.
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        • Profile picture of the author seasoned
          Originally Posted by Richard Van View Post

          Wandering into the desert sounds a bit of a mental issue, PTSD or similar. Anyone sane should know that at best if the Taliban got you, which they will if you wander into the bush, will be long term torture and a prisoner they'd use as a bargaining chip.
          There seems to be a lot of evidence he HATED the US. He told others that, if this was a "lame mission" he was just going to head out and go to the hills of pakistan. He ALSO bought things off base that he was NOT to do. WHY? Because of chance of capture. He KNEW what he was doing.

          Remember you are a swine of an infidel that needs keeping alive for the fun of torture to them. At worst they'll skin you on the internet or cut your head off slowly with a small blade.
          WOW! Non moslems that don't remember that idea may take offense,

          One isn't dealing with Geneva Convention followers. To them you are quite simply repugnant scum deserving of nothing on their Earth. I know that, any soldier of a sound mind out there definitely knows that.
          The geneva convention deals with REAL POWs. These aren't. OH, they could MAYBE argue about bowe, but not the others. They are terrorists.

          I don't of course know if that's true or how he fell into their hands.
          Yeah, WHY pakistan? That is ENEMY TERRITORY! Did they happen upon one another? Was bowe always in contact with them? If so, WHY?

          Believe me though, those 5 being released is one pile of poo of a problem now and no one will ever know where they even are. I'm sure they're very busy as I type this though.
          YEP! Even if they were chipped and they had satellites, etc... it isn't good enough.

          ...and Frank, Steve is probably as calm as a whistle, he just likes to use caps a lot.
          Thanks. Yeah. If I weren't affected by all this, I would merely sit back and laugh. BTW did you hear? OC now supports something I am told canada's health system doesn't support!!!!!!!!

          I guess it makes sense, since they give this "treatment" to prisoners if the prisonerswant!

          I am NOT kidding!!!!! "sex change" surgery! Ban lifted on Medicare coverage for sex change surgery - The Washington Post

          Steve
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      • Profile picture of the author garyv
        Originally Posted by BigFrank View Post

        Did you ever serve in combat? Ever been held in captivity? Your proclamation is easy to deliver from your cushy armchair while sipping your cappuccino.
        Actually - I served as an Electronics Technician for the Navy, which put me in quite a few unsavory places during the Gulf War. - And of course I was never captured, but I can say without a doubt in my mind that I'd rather die in captivity than to let 5 enemy combatants free. Especially if they already have a history of killing Americans. - I honestly have no idea what it's like not to think that way. It's not bravery, it's what you're supposed to do, and what you signed up to do when you joined.

        Wonder why we haven't seen him yet? My theory is that they're having to do everything in their power to keep him from outing himself as a deserter. Not like there's not enough evidence of that already anyway.
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  • Profile picture of the author whateverpedia
    I'm surprised that governments all over the world, of every political persuasion, maintain the line that "we don't negotiate with terrorists".

    They have always negotiated with them, done deals, paid ransoms, etc., etc., when its been expedient for them to do so.
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      This one is a bit unusual in that these five Gitmo prisoners were requested BY NAME for release two years ago at least. They are not soldiers - they were leaders and organizers of anti-American forces in Afghanistan.

      Not much about this swap was "normal" and one sure sign leaders in D.C. are nervous about the reaction is the new push on MSNBC today to label this a "phony debate". No matter what - MSNBC has the WH covered.

      U.S. kept Red Cross in the dark about Guantánamo prisoner release - Guantánamo - MiamiHerald.com
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      • Profile picture of the author seasoned
        Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

        This one is a bit unusual in that these five Gitmo prisoners were requested BY NAME for release two years ago at least. They are not soldiers - they were leaders and organizers of anti-American forces in Afghanistan.

        Not much about this swap was "normal" and one sure sign leaders in D.C. are nervous about the reaction is the new push on MSNBC today to label this a "phony debate". No matter what - MSNBC has the WH covered.

        U.S. kept Red Cross in the dark about Guantánamo prisoner release - Guantánamo - MiamiHerald.com
        There is a LOT that can certainly be said against this trade. To say it is SO perfect that any debate is phony is just MORONIC! The fact that it is 1 lowly TOURIST for 5 AL QAIDA leaders is established FACT! Even MSNBC says that! I say TOURIST, because what SHOULD I call him? Deserter sounds too good. It seems he went down there PLANNING to get captured, and/or integrate into that culture. I COULD say traitor, but then that might be up for debate.

        NPR tends to lean obamas way. Look what THEY said: In Bowe Bergdahl's Release, As Many Questions As Answers : Parallels : NPR

        OK, WHY is Bowe a Sargent? I spoke to a friend of mine today. He was SHOCKED when I told him that Bowe was promoted to a sargent during his "captivity"!!!!!! My friend is only a corporal, and will likely have to reenlist to some degree if he ever wanted to raise his rank.

        The mere fact that he could not have been active should have the same effect as leaving did on those that left.

        I wish just once we would get the truth. We clearly aren't getting it from the WH.

        BTW don't forget the VA. In the coming months, many of us will likely be reminded about obama care. A while after that, may be as long as a year, but I think it will be by early next year, MORE will be reminded! By about 2020, MORE will be reminded. The last shoe SHOULD drop by 2030. Why couldn't they have everything happen 1/1/2014!?!?!?!?

        If you are in a union, or a state like california, don't think you will avoid the party. It looks like YOU may join also!

        I wonder how many of the approximately 175million that could be affected in the next 7 months will be in that group.

        Steve
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        • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
          Banned
          Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

          The last shoe SHOULD drop by 2030. Why couldn't they have everything happen 1/1/2014!?!?!?!?
          So - keeping the doom and gloom in the present has now morphed into projecting it 15 years into the future? Seriously, Steve - has anyone seen you smile or at least unclench your jaw since President Obama was elected? If so - I want photographic proof or I ain't buyin' it. Not with the unending vitriol that you spew. How do you continually face each day mired in such unbounded rage? Don't you ever get tired? I suggest you watch a few Roadrunner cartoons to better understand the vagaries of our collective existence.

          If you don't get a grip you're going to stroke out long before 2030 arrives.

          Cheers. - Frank

          P.S. Don't worry - we'll have single-payer much sooner than 2030. Uncle will take good care of you, if you're still around. lol
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          • Profile picture of the author seasoned
            Originally Posted by BigFrank View Post

            So - keeping the doom and gloom in the present has now morphed into projecting it 15 years into the future?
            WOW, you really HAVEN'T been watching! I was talking about the future, regarding this, BEFORE it even passed! WHY? It is written into the bill! WHY do you think nobody really talked about OC until late 2013? WHY do you think it is NOW? It was WRITTEN INTO THE BILL!!!!!!!!

            It said it wasto start 2014, have an audit every 5 years, 2019, 2024, etc.... ALAS, they keep moving dates. Things I said would happen in 2019 ALREADY happened! In fact, I said we would eventually end up in medicare They are already starting some, even in RICH families, in MEDICAID!

            Seriously, Steve - has anyone seen you smile or at least unclench your jaw since President Obama was elected?
            I didn't clench my fists!

            If so - I want photographic proof or I ain't buyin' it.
            Well, I "ain't" selling that!

            Not with the unending vitriol that you spew. How do you continually face each day mired in such unbounded rage? Don't you ever get tired? I suggest you watch a few Roadrunner cartoons to better understand the vagaries of our collective existence.
            WELL, I DID say earlier that this was looney toons!


            I'm glad YOU agree! So, to quote a famous commercial "Where's the beef?"

            If you don't get a grip you're going to stroke out long before 2030 arrives.
            NAW! I had a doctor laugh at that prospect. I don't recallhow it came up, but the cardiologist literally DID laugh!

            P.S. Don't worry - we'll have single-payer much sooner than 2030. Uncle will take good care of you, if you're still around. lol
            I said we would be on the "single payer" from the beginning as well. People ignored me. NOW NEWS PROGRAMS are saying it is there. DUH!!!!!! YEP, perhaps as early as 2019 or earlier. It IS in the law, and many WERE put on it.

            OK, so you are going to give up the VA? GREAT! GLAD TO HEAR IT! If we get rid of the VA, there will be MORE for OBAMA CARE! Real estate and support costs a LOT! On a scale of the VA, it is well into the billions, and perhaps trillions, for real estate ALONE! The annual budget, according to wikipedia, is $47 billion.

            Steve
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            • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
              Banned
              Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

              WOW, you really HAVEN'T been watching! I was talking about the future, regarding this, BEFORE it even passed! WHY? It is written into the bill! WHY do you think nobody really talked about OC until late 2013? WHY do you think it is NOW? It was WRITTEN INTO THE BILL!!!!!!!!

              It said it wasto start 2014, have an audit every 5 years, 2019, 2024, etc.... ALAS, they keep moving dates. Things I said would happen in 2019 ALREADY happened! In fact, I said we would eventually end up in medicare They are already starting some, even in RICH families, in MEDICAID!
              I am in total awe of your prognosticative powers. So, how much do you have riding on California Chrome???
              I didn't clench my fists!
              A true, 'man of peace.' Nice to know Mahatma!
              I'm glad YOU agree! So, to quote a famous commercial "Where's the beef?"
              The same place that Clara Peller resides.
              NAW! I had a doctor laugh at that prospect. I don't recall how it came up, but the cardiologist literally DID laugh!
              I'm glad to know that you're still able to get anyone to laugh, with you - and not AT you!
              I said we would be on the "single payer" from the beginning as well. People ignored me. NOW NEWS PROGRAMS are saying it is there. DUH!!!!!! YEP, perhaps as early as 2019 or earlier. It IS in the law, and many WERE put on it.
              Well, had you alerted the media earlier, I'm quite certain that would have been all over that.
              OK, so you are going to give up the VA? GREAT! GLAD TO HEAR IT! If we get rid of the VA, there will be MORE for OBAMA CARE! Real estate and support costs a LOT! On a scale of the VA, it is well into the billions, and perhaps trillions, for real estate ALONE! The annual budget, according to wikipedia, is $47 billion.
              About a third of what's truly needed. Give up the corporate welfare and it's instantly recouped. See how easily I can fix things with nothing more than an IQ hovering right around room temperature and a smidgen of common sense? Why couldn't YOU do that. Why is it always left up to me???

              As far as giving up the VA? Although they have done an excellent job of keeping me alive and out of an insane asylum, I'll be pushing up daisies before single payer is fully implemented. Although I wish it for the nation, I'll never get to take advantage of it.

              Now - there's at least one thought that should bring a smile to that Danny Downer puss of yours!!!

              Cheers. - Frank
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              • Profile picture of the author seasoned
                Originally Posted by BigFrank View Post

                As far as giving up the VA? Although they have done an excellent job of keeping me alive and out of an insane asylum, I'll be pushing up daisies before single payer is fully implemented. Although I wish it for the nation, I'll never get to take advantage of it.

                Now - there's at least one thought that should bring a smile to that Danny Downer puss of yours!!!

                Cheers. - Frank
                For the first part, don't count your chickens! For the next?

                HECK NO! I want ALL that wanted it to reap what they have sown!

                Steve
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                • Profile picture of the author Kay King
                  I think "they" may have gone too far with this prisoner exchange. Turns out Harry Reid was notified a day before this took place....but no one else was. It's not the exchange itself but the way in which it was done that is a problem.

                  There is a notification period required - it was ignored. When those on your side are questioning what you do, not good.

                  Dianne Feinstein Disappointed Lawmakers Not Given 30-Day Notice on Bergdahl Swap - NationalJournal.com
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                  • Profile picture of the author ThomM
                    Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                    I think "they" may have gone too far with this prisoner exchange. Turns out Harry Reid was notified a day before this took place....but no one else was. It's not the exchange itself but the way in which it was done that is a problem.

                    There is a notification period required - it was ignored. When those on your side are questioning what you do, not good.

                    Dianne Feinstein Disappointed Lawmakers Not Given 30-Day Notice on Bergdahl Swap - NationalJournal.com
                    Guess which president signed it.
                    But he had a signing statement saying he wanted more leeway. Which doesn't supersede the law signed. Then again Bush also made signing statements so that makes it alright
                    Also he has apologized and said it was an oversight.
                    Good excuse to remember.
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                • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
                  Banned
                  Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

                  For the first part, don't count your chickens! For the next?
                  Somethings are a done deal and better to face them and to live your life accordingly as opposed to living in denial and dying with a heart full of regrets.
                  HECK NO! I want ALL that wanted it to reap what they have sown! Steve
                  Always the humanitarian spreading comfort and joy. So basically you are saying that you won't be able to achieve a semblance of happiness until they're as miserable as you are. Nice. lol

                  Cheers. - Frank
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                  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
                    Originally Posted by BigFrank View Post

                    Always the humanitarian spreading comfort and joy. So basically you are saying that you won't be able to achieve a semblance of happiness until they're as miserable as you are. Nice. lol
                    I ONLY wished that you get the fruits of what you strove for. You act like that is a CURSE! You should say THANK YOU, if it is so great!

                    HECK, I wish ALL you guys were somewhere else so we could merely watch! Tax yourselves 200% or more! I DON'T CARE! Shut down EVERY business! FORBID use of ANY knife, gun, or explosive or flammable substance, except such substances that have a deleterious effect on the mind or feelings. Give yourselves ALL the GMO stuff, sugar free, trans fat free, and full saturated fats you want! Get a minimum wage of $1000/minute(not usable in our country)! Have it fully duty free, anyone can immigrate there or work there, 100% union! Homosexual marriage will be downright ENCOURAGED! Unemployment could be paid for LIFE! HECK, even deny US the ability to copy you. And FREE college, etc... FREE healthcare! And don't forget the MOSLEMS with sharia law!

                    Wouldn't that be GREAT!?!?!?!? I wish nothing less for you!

                    Steve
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                    • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
                      Banned
                      Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

                      Wouldn't that be GREAT!?!?!?!? I wish nothing less for you! Steve
                      And I hope that your rubber room has a lovely view. I only want the best, for everyone.

                      Cheers. - Frank

                      P.S. I only skimmed over your claptrap. You did manage to get the transgender folks somewhere in that diatribe, correct??? I know how scary they can be to some people.
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                • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
                  Originally Posted by BigFrank View Post

                  Not with the unending vitriol that you spew.
                  As someone who is an independent and is distrustful of the right and the left, his "vitriol" is no worse than that of the left, and generally not as insulting as many of your equally biased posts.

                  And by the way, Steve uses caps like the rest of us use bold or italic. It's for emphasis. I have no idea why, but it is what it is.
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                  • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
                    Banned
                    Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post

                    As someone who is an independent and is distrustful of the right and the left, his "vitriol" is no worse than that of the left,
                    I was in no way being judgmental, nor was I rating his vitriol. It was merely an observation and I believe an extremely obvious one.
                    and generally not as insulting as yours.
                    Now that hurts. While I do enjoy the parry and thrust of rigorous debate, my intention is never to insult anyone. I do enjoy getting a rise out of people, but I believe that if I were to actually insult anyone, the mods would have my head. I can be rapier-like in my attack, but I mean it when I say I get no enjoyment from insulting anyone. Additionally, Steve seems capable of defending his positions and beliefs, quite nicely on his own. That's what makes having the discourse with him so entertaining. I'm sorry you felt the need to defend him. Now you have made me feel like I'm a bully. While I may not agree with any oh his views, I respect them as I would want mine respected and I don't believe that I have ever hit below the belt. I hope that he would concur.
                    And by the way, Steve uses caps like the rest of us use bold or italic. It's for emphasis. I have no idea why, but it is what it is.
                    Who ever mentioned anything about that? As someone who uses words and phrases like 'ain't,' 'I'm just sayin'' and 'youse guys.' you're never gonna see me slam someone's personal style of communication.

                    I'm sorry if you feel that I'm being too hard on Steve. I'll lighten up. I wouldn't want him to soil his pretty pink panties and that is NOT an insult. I am merely complimenting him on his fashion sense. Nothing more.

                    Cheers. - Frank
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                    • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
                      Originally Posted by BigFrank View Post

                      Now that hurts. While I do enjoy the parry and thrust of rigorous debate, my intention is never to insult anyone.
                      The intent wasn't to hurt, but to inform. I wouldn't inform everyone of such things, only those whom I suspect are intelligent enough, thoughtful enough, and self-confident enough to consider a different perspective.

                      With the "insulting" part, I was referring more to your comments about the "right" in general rather than comments to specific members. If you think back you've caused some threads to be closed for your own vitriolic comments. Your passion and Steve's are cut from the same cloth, as I see it, you just use it dress different things. This is what I wanted you to see.

                      As for me defending Steve, Richard told you Steve was probably calm, and you said you weren't so sure. Some people confuse Steve's "emphasis" with anger. I just hoped to add some clarity to the topic.

                      As for the mods having your head, things like that are always a judgment call. Context and history are part of that, as well as which mod happens to see your post - if they see it. They don't, and can't, read all the posts.
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                      • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                        I miss Riffle. I miss Shane.
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                        • Profile picture of the author MikeAmbrosio
                          Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                          I miss Riffle. I miss Shane.
                          Who are they again???
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                    • Profile picture of the author MikeAmbrosio
                      Originally Posted by BigFrank View Post


                      I'm sorry if you feel that I'm being too hard on Steve. I'll lighten up. I wouldn't want him to soil his pretty pink panties and that is NOT an insult. I am merely complimenting him on his fashion sense. Nothing more.

                      Cheers. - Frank
                      Actually, that is a matter of opinion and could easily be read as insulting. That's the trouble with "debating" via the written word.
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                      • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
                        Banned
                        Originally Posted by MikeAmbrosio View Post

                        Actually, that is a matter of opinion and could easily be read as insulting. That's the trouble with "debating" via the written word.
                        Sardonic wit is a form of expression that if you are not often exposed to will generally always be regarded as insulting. It's the nature of the beast. I understand that going in but always hope that those who read my words take the time to consider who is writing them.

                        Now, if you simply consider me a 'bad' person, you're opinion of my words will always be colored by that point of reference. There's not much I can do about that, nor would I even make the futile attempt to change how you view me. That's entirely yours to deal with, in whatever fashion you deem appropriate.

                        I fully grant you that as the price that I realize I must pay for the style in which I choose to communicate.

                        Different strokes, that's all. I'm not everyone's cup of tea. The day that I am, I'll immediately look for a new method of communication.

                        Cheers. - Frank
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                        • Profile picture of the author MikeAmbrosio
                          Originally Posted by BigFrank View Post

                          Sardonic wit is a form of expression that if you are not often exposed to will generally always be regarded as insulting. It's the nature of the beast. I understand that going in but always hope that those who read my words take the time to consider who is writing them.

                          Now, if you simply consider me a 'bad' person, you're opinion of my words will always be colored by that point of reference. There's not much I can do about that, nor would I even make the futile attempt to change how you view me. That's entirely yours to deal with, in whatever fashion you deem appropriate.

                          I fully grant you that as the price that I realize I must pay for the style in which I choose to communicate.

                          Different strokes, that's all. I'm not everyone's cup of tea. The day that I am, I'll immediately look for a new method of communication.

                          Cheers. - Frank
                          As people get to know you and your debating/posting style they will understand you better and see your posts and wit the way you intend. I have been on this forum with Steve for most of those 12 years, and I do understand his style, which is why I am never insulted by, for example, his overuse of caps lock

                          Frankly, I kind of enjoy watching new members with Steve. It can be...entertaining.

                          Personally, I have seen Steve take much more than he gives (in the insults department). There are a few who seem to relish in trying to get under his skin.

                          He tends to get pretty passionate, but by the same token, sometimes he comes across "over the top". People take him the wrong way quite a bit.

                          After a while, you'll start to understand his style the way others will understand yours.
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                          • Profile picture of the author Kay King
                            No problem down here with inane drivel or different strokes - but the right to be inane or practice different strokes applies to everyone.

                            Sardonic wit must, by definition, be witty. Without humor, it's boorish.
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                        • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
                          Originally Posted by BigFrank View Post

                          I fully grant you that as the price that I realize I must pay for the style in which I choose to communicate.

                          Different strokes, that's all. I'm not everyone's cup of tea. The day that I am, I'll immediately look for a new method of communication.

                          Cheers. - Frank
                          Don't you dare change. I think you are hilarious and of course right on the mark politically. Perhaps those two things are connected. I can't think of any great conservative comedians. Dennis Miller? Good grief, he's terrible. I can't even think of any others. Seems the great comedians are almost always progressives going back to Mark Twain.

                          You
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                          • Profile picture of the author ThomM
                            Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

                            Don't you dare change. I think you are hilarious and of course right on the mark politically. Perhaps those two things are connected. I can't think of any great conservative comedians. Dennis Miller? Good grief, he's terrible. I can't even think of any others. Seems the great comedians are almost always progressives going back to Mark Twain.

                            You
                            Tim there are many that aren't liberial or conservative.
                            Take George Carlin for example.
                            The habits of liberals, their automatic language, their knee-jerk responses to certain issues, deserved the epithets the right wing stuck them with. I'd see how true they often were. Here they were, banding together in packs, so I could predict what they were going to say about some event or conflict and it wasn't even out of their mouths yet. I was very uncomfortable with that. Liberal orthodoxy was as repugnant to me as conservative orthodoxy.
                            Quote by George Carlin:
                            George was a smart man.
                            Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.
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                            • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
                              Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

                              Tim there are many that aren't liberial or conservative.
                              Take George Carlin for example.
                              George was a smart man.
                              I love George of course. He was definitely someone who leaned to the left. If you doubt that listen to what he says on Countdown with Kieth Olbermann shortly before he died. He said "This is the best news show ever. I have seen them all and this is the best."

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                              • Profile picture of the author ThomM
                                Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

                                I love George of course. He was definitely someone who leaned to the left. If you doubt that listen to what he says on Countdown with Kieth Olbermann shortly before he died. He said "This is the best news show ever. I have seen them all and this is the best."

                                George Carlin on Countdown with Keith Olbermann - YouTube
                                I think he just leaned towards the truth.
                                I said for a long time that if you wanted news it was John Stewart and the Daily show.
                                Doesn't mean I lean to the left, because I like the Daily Show.
                                One of the perks of not being married to the left or the right. You can like or dislike an idea based on it's merits, not just like it because it's from your side or dislike it if it's from the other side.
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                                • Profile picture of the author Kay King
                                  I think the guy is still in a German Hospital - doctors there were quoted as "he might be here for some time". He's to be "treated and debriefed in Germany" according to one report I read.

                                  New wrinkle is the claim he left a note when he left base - if that's the case debriefing could be interesting.
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                                  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
                                    Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                                    I think the guy is still in a German Hospital - doctors there were quoted as "he might be here for some time". He's to be "treated and debriefed in Germany" according to one report I read.

                                    New wrinkle is the claim he left a note when he left base - if that's the case debriefing could be interesting.
                                    You do NOT simply "leave a note"! THAT is why it is called Absent WithOut LEAVE! LEAVE is another way of saying PERMISSION! They sometimes give permission for a period, event, etc... If they do, then you can go for that. If they don't, you have to ASK for leave. If you leave without such permission, you are AWOL! A note doesn't cut it!

                                    leave2 [leev] Show IPA
                                    noun
                                    1.
                                    permission to do something: to beg leave to go elsewhere.
                                    Frankly, I think they are trying to delay it. Maybe they want to make sure he doesn't sound too foreign, etc...

                                    Steve
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                                • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
                                  Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

                                  I think he just leaned towards the truth.


                                  I said for a long time that if you wanted news it was John Stewart and the Daily show.
                                  Doesn't mean I lean to the left, because I like the Daily Show.


                                  One of the perks of not being married to the left or the right.

                                  You can like or dislike an idea based on it's merits, not just like it because it's from your side or dislike it if it's from the other side.
                                  That's wonderful for social issues.

                                  And...

                                  You, Kay and Seasoned also happen to be married to the right - which IMHO is oh so wrong - when it comes to American economic issues and philosophy and that's a fact.

                                  Don't bother quibbling, we've already been over this - last week as a matter of fact.


                                  Look at what your "Trickle Down" economic philosophy has done to the people of our great country.

                                  Thanks a million.

                                  9 reasons the American middle class is dying - Salon.com
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                                  • Profile picture of the author ThomM
                                    Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

                                    That's wonderful for social issues.

                                    And...

                                    You, Kay and Seasoned also happen to be married to the right - which IMHO is oh so wrong - when it comes to American economic issues and philosophy and that's a fact.

                                    Don't bother quibbling, we've already been over this - last week as a matter of fact.


                                    Look at what your "Trickle Down" economic philosophy has done to the people of our great country.

                                    Thanks a million.

                                    9 reasons the American middle class is dying - Salon.com
                                    Like I also said last week you're an idiot.
                                    You have no concept of anything but left and right.
                                    If a person disagrees with you they MUST be on the right.
                                    You THINK we are married to the right, which is funny in itself. But you on the other hand have your head so far up the butt of the left that your oxygen has been cut off and the part of your brain where reasoning and truth lives died.
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                                    • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
                                      Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

                                      Like I also said last week you're an idiot.
                                      You have no concept of anything but left and right.
                                      If a person disagrees with you they MUST be on the right.


                                      You THINK we are married to the right, which is funny in itself.

                                      But you on the other hand have your head so far up the butt of the left that your oxygen has been cut off and the part of your brain where reasoning and truth lives died.

                                      Sure Thom sure.

                                      You may be able to pick and choose what you support when it comes to social issues but...

                                      You're married to the right when it comes to economic issues and attitudes and that can't be denied - no matter how hard you try.

                                      You can run but you can't hide.

                                      Seasoned is not running from the truth why are you?
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                                      • Profile picture of the author seasoned
                                        Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

                                        Sure Thom sure.

                                        You may be able to pick and choose what you support when it comes to social issues but...

                                        You're married to the right when it comes to economic issues and attitudes and that can't be denied - no matter how hard you try.

                                        You can run but you can't hide.

                                        Seasoned is not running from the truth why are you?
                                        OK, the word RIGHT has a LOT of meanings. I guess I can agree with that.

                                        And I could say a few things about left field. I won't

                                        For All I know, yours may be a left handed compliment. Even so, THANKS!

                                        BTW my apologies for most left handers. I didn't mean that as an insult to you.

                                        Steve
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                                      • Profile picture of the author ThomM
                                        Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

                                        Sure Thom sure.

                                        You may be able to pick and choose what you support when it comes to social issues but...

                                        You're married to the right when it comes to economic issues and attitudes and that can't be denied - no matter how hard you try.

                                        You can run but you can't hide.

                                        Seasoned is not running from the truth why are you?
                                        Like I said before.
                                        Some of my views on economic issues are closer to the right then left But married to the right? Again you're an idiot.
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                                        • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
                                          Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

                                          Sure Thom sure.

                                          You may be able to pick and choose what you support when it comes to social issues but...

                                          You're married to the right when it comes to economic issues and attitudes and that can't be denied - no matter how hard you try.

                                          You can run but you can't hide.

                                          Seasoned is not running from the truth why are you?
                                          Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

                                          Like I said before.
                                          Some of my views on economic issues are closer to the right then left But married to the right? Again you're an idiot.
                                          Don't worry, Thom.

                                          By that same power vested in TL to marry you to the right, I decree a writ of divorcement so you can now continue to play the field again as you see fit, just like I do.


                                          Terra
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                                          • Profile picture of the author ThomM
                                            Originally Posted by MissTerraK View Post

                                            Don't worry, Thom.

                                            By that same power vested in TL to marry you to the right, I decree a writ of divorcement so you can now continue to play the field again as you see fit, just like I do.


                                            Terra
                                            Thanks Terra
                                            If I was married to the right, they'd just divorce me like both my wives did
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                                            • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
                                              Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

                                              Thanks Terra
                                              If I was married to the right, they'd just divorce me like both my wives did
                                              Haha!

                                              I wasn't thinking that at all, lol, but thanks for the giggles.


                                              Terra
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                                            • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
                                              Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

                                              Thanks Terra
                                              If I was married to the right, they'd just divorce me like both my wives did
                                              Well, if you ain't married to them, you are having a seriously intimate and fairly exclusive relationship.
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                                              • Profile picture of the author seasoned
                                                Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

                                                Well, if you ain't married to them, you are having a seriously intimate and fairly exclusive relationship.
                                                OK, then I guess I don't need to get a divorce!

                                                Steve
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                                              • Profile picture of the author ThomM
                                                Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

                                                Well, if you ain't married to them, you are having a seriously intimate and fairly exclusive relationship.
                                                What's funny about that is when Bush was president republicans where saying the same thing about me and Liberals.
                                                Like Ice Cube says' "Got blocked by a republican and had to unfriend a liberal. It was a good day.".
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                                              • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
                                                Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

                                                Well, if you ain't married to them, you are having a seriously intimate and fairly exclusive relationship.

                                                Say Tim...

                                                Any idea what would have been said and who would have said it - if Bergdhal died in captivity?
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                                                • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
                                                  Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

                                                  Say Tim...

                                                  Any idea what would have been said and who would have said it - if Bergdhal died in captivity?
                                                  Yep. He may have died or killed by the Taliban if they couldn't get a deal. The admin and Pres would have been criticized for that also. By the same folks I'm sure. It was a damned if you do and damned if you don't decision, but that's pretty common among his opposition with this President. By the way, there's a few videos out there showing the same politicians wanting us to do anything we can to free Bergdahl, including a prisoner trade, who are now criticizing it.

                                                  Something I read about this deal was that these five Taliban guys would likely be freed with or without a deal. If so, this is a good deal. It's kind of like trading a player with an expiring contract in sports after the player says he wants to leave the team after his contract expires. You know they are going soon so you want to at least get something for that player.

                                                  Regarding the difference between the Taliban and Al Qaeda, the Taliban never attacked us before we were in Afghanistan. Al Qaeda did. The Taliban never planned to attack the US before we were in Afghanistan. Al Qaeda did. In fact, Taliban leaders visited the US before 9-11. The difference between these 5 prisoners and some of these remaining in Gitmo is that they are considered POWs of the Afghanistan war. What's going to happen to these prisoners after we officially end our participation in the war? They can't just be held indefinitely. They will be released. Now, those Al Qaeda prisoners who we have evidence that they were plotting to attack the US, I doubt they will be released.

                                                  By the way, there is good evidence that the Taliban offered to put Bin Laden to trial before 9-11 if the US would have dropped sanctions but the Bush admin turned it down. Ari Fleicher, the Bush press sec, was even asked about this in a Feb 2001 press briefing.

                                                  Conservative commentator Charles Krauthammer, who sometimes goes against many of his fellow conservative comrades, says he would have made the same deal Obama did. He also pointed out these deals are typically lopsided such as when Israel traded 1000 Palestinian prisoners in return for one sergeant.
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                                  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
                                    Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

                                    That's wonderful for social issues.

                                    And...

                                    You, Kay and Seasoned also happen to be married to the right - which IMHO is oh so wrong - when it comes to American economic issues and philosophy and that's a fact.

                                    Don't bother quibbling, we've already been over this - last week as a matter of fact.


                                    Look at what your "Trickle Down" economic philosophy has done to the people of our great country.

                                    Thanks a million.

                                    9 reasons the American middle class is dying - Salon.com
                                    If we are "OH SO WRONG" then WHY DON'T you all leave, and start yourown country, asI described earlier. PLEASE! I would LOVE to see that! You will get to see how YOU are wrong! I think you know WHY! It is the SAME reason you ENDLESSLY ask for taxes to be increased! But if ALL of you move to the same uninhabited place, WHO will you tax? If you ALL want to lie on your hammocks, WHO will raise food? If nuclear and carbon are out, you are left with wind and solar. And HOW will you even produce them? You COULD use thermal, but THAT has problems ALSO.

                                    Steve
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                          • Profile picture of the author MikeAmbrosio
                            Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

                            Don't you dare change. I think you are hilarious and of course right on the mark politically. Perhaps those two things are connected. I can't think of any great conservative comedians. Dennis Miller? Good grief, he's terrible. I can't even think of any others. Seems the great comedians are almost always progressives going back to Mark Twain.

                            You
                            I would agree there are not many conservative comedians out there that I think are all that funny. But that's not surprising considering the entertainment industry in general are largely liberal.

                            But I think it also has to do with your political leaning. You probably find Dennis Miller as funny as I find Bill Maher. Even his regular stand up I find - "eh" at best. Simply not all that funny.

                            John Stewart I find entertaining though...
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                          • Profile picture of the author garyv
                            Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

                            Don't you dare change. I think you are hilarious and of course right on the mark politically. Perhaps those two things are connected. I can't think of any great conservative comedians. Dennis Miller? Good grief, he's terrible. I can't even think of any others. Seems the great comedians are almost always progressives going back to Mark Twain.

                            You
                            It's true there's not many famous conservative comedians. But there are a few. Adam Corolla isn't bad...


                            Also Red Eye - while not as good as The Daily Show - doesn't get enough credit for being funny...


                            But something can also be said about the fact that most comedians perform as a coping mechanism, enabling them to escape from their daily troubles. So possibly a progressive lifestyle lends itself to more misery in life. Yes that sounds about right
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                            • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                              Originally Posted by garyv View Post

                              But something can also be said about the fact that most comedians perform as a coping mechanism, enabling them to escape from their daily troubles. So possibly a progressive lifestyle lends itself to more misery in life. Yes that sounds about right
                              I would really love to see the mental gymnastics you went through, to come up with that gem.

                              Good stand up comedy is the hardest and most complicated form of thinking. There are many different kinds of comedians. But there are no stupid comedians.

                              Comedians aren't escaping their daily troubles. They are capitalizing on them.

                              "So possibly a progressive lifestyle lends itself to more misery in life."..

                              Man, I'm saving that one. Actually, we laugh a lot. Remember, we have almost all the comedians.
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                              • Profile picture of the author seasoned
                                Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                                I would really love to see the mental gymnastics you went through, to come up with that gem.

                                Good stand up comedy is the hardest and most complicated form of thinking. There are many different kinds of comedians. But there are no stupid comedians.

                                Comedians aren't escaping their daily troubles. They are capitalizing on them.

                                "So possibly a progressive lifestyle lends itself to more misery in life."..

                                Man, I'm saving that one. Actually, we laugh a lot. Remember, we have almost all the comedians.
                                WOW! You just called a LOT of comedians ****LIARS****!

                                YEAH, they capitalize on them! SO WHAT ELSE IS NEW?

                                LISTEN to a lot of comedians some time. A LOT have agendas, and you think ***I*** am nasty? Listen to maher sometime! Listen to even some routines chris rock has. He even made ashow called: Everybody Hates Chris (TV Series 2005

                                HECK, you start to wonder sometimes what they would have if their grandparents(or black people in general) weren't born in the south. A person will literally come here from another country with NO history here, and claim the same history!

                                Steve
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                              • Profile picture of the author garyv
                                Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                                I would really love to see the mental gymnastics you went through, to come up with that gem.

                                Good stand up comedy is the hardest and most complicated form of thinking. There are many different kinds of comedians. But there are no stupid comedians.

                                Comedians aren't escaping their daily troubles. They are capitalizing on them.

                                "So possibly a progressive lifestyle lends itself to more misery in life."..

                                Man, I'm saving that one. Actually, we laugh a lot. Remember, we have almost all the comedians.
                                Actually I didn't come up with that one - it was from Psychologytoday.com

                                Why Do Comedians Become Comedians? | Psychology Today

                                Ps- you don't have almost all of the comedians - Only most of the ones that are popular in hollywood and through liberal run mediums. (Simply because most liberals don't have the tolerance to listen to jokes made at their expense) But there are plenty of comedians working in and around Chicago where I live that make a living off of the plethora of material handed them on a daily basis by people like Biden, Obama, Weiner, Reid, Pelosi, and several other human whoopee cushions.
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                    • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
                      Originally Posted by BigFrank View Post


                      I'm sorry if you feel that I'm being too hard on Steve. I'll lighten up. I wouldn't want him to soil his pretty pink panties and that is NOT an insult. I am merely complimenting him on his fashion sense. Nothing more.

                      Cheers. - Frank
                      You clearly have Steve and I mixed up...

                      Yes, lighten up on Steve by all means, but Dag-nabbit! Leave my pretty pink panties out of this!!

                      I hope you can read between the lines and get what message I'm really trying to convey here.

                      I suppose you saw that coming, right Dan?


                      Terra
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        • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
          Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

          ... for 5 AL QAIDA leaders is established FACT!
          As what seems to happen frequently, your so called facts are only facts inside your head. These are leaders of the Taliban, not Al Qaeda. There is a difference and as Richard said "...they are Afghani Taliban who are very different from the Pakistani Taliban". Nice try though.
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          • Profile picture of the author seasoned
            Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

            As what seems to happen frequently, your so called facts are only facts inside your head. These are leaders of the Taliban, not Al Qaeda. There is a difference and as Richard said "...they are Afghani Taliban who are very different from the Pakistani Taliban". Nice try though.
            OK TALIBAN! Still terrorists! Still leaders. Some are calling them the dream team.

            Steve
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            • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
              Banned
              Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

              OK TALIBAN!
              I believe you meant to say, "OK. I was completely wrong. TALIBAN!"

              Try it on. It ain't that hard and 'ya know - sometimes it actually makes you look like a bigger man in the eyes of others.
              Still terrorists! Still leaders. Some are calling them the dream team.
              Like, who? Wait - let me guess. Karl Rove, Lindsay Graham, Charles Krauthammer , Rush the Impotent Drug Addict and Sean 'If My Lips Are Moving I'm Lying' Hannity? Did I leave anyone out?

              Cheers. - Frank
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              • Profile picture of the author seasoned
                Originally Posted by BigFrank View Post

                I believe you meant to say, "OK. I was completely wrong. TALIBAN!"
                Certainly not completely

                Like, who? Wait - let me guess. Karl Rove, Lindsay Graham, Charles Krauthammer , Rush the Impotent Drug Addict and Sean 'If My Lips Are Moving I'm Lying' Hannity? Did I leave anyone out?
                Well, I don't like Karl Rove or Lindsay graham. C'est la vie! His name isn't hannity. It starts with an O, hint, hint! Rush? There are only TWO ways I heard that word used!

                1. NOPE! CAN'T BE! THEN, you wouldn't mention him!
                2. WOW, you CARE!!!!!!????? Did he even say anything about it?

                Steve
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                • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
                  Banned
                  Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

                  Certainly not completely
                  Sorry, but in that sentence - completely. Apparently, admitting that you can be wrong is harder than I thought for you.
                  Well, I don't like Karl Rove or Lindsay graham. C'est la vie! His name isn't hannity. It starts with an O, hint, hint! Rush? There are only TWO ways I heard that word used!
                  As in 'Bill-'O?'
                  1. NOPE! CAN'T BE! THEN, you wouldn't mention him!
                  2. WOW, you CARE!!!!!!????? Did he even say anything about it?

                  Steve
                  OK. I'm trying to keep up, but you lost me there. A little less cryptic, please. I ain't no brain-trust.

                  Cheers. - Frank
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                  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
                    Originally Posted by BigFrank View Post

                    Sorry, but in that sentence - completely. Apparently, admitting that you can be wrong is harder than I thought for you.
                    I'll admit it when I am. I said partially.

                    As in 'Bill-'O?'
                    Well, yu have the initials right, but NO.

                    OK. I'm trying to keep up, but you lost me there. A little less cryptic, please. I ain't no brain-trust.
                    Where would the fun be in that? OK, number 1 means powerless, having no influence. You can GUESS what #2 means,

                    Steve
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                    • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
                      Banned
                      Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

                      I'll admit it when I am. I said partially.

                      Well, yu have the initials right, but NO.

                      Where would the fun be in that? OK, number 1 means powerless, having no influence. You can GUESS what #2 means,

                      Steve
                      Sorry, buddy. A long day and while they usually start at 5 AM I had the pleasure of being woken up by my dog upchucking at 4 AM. Also, today was VA PTSD therapy day which is never a bed of roses, so I'm kinda spent.

                      I think I'll let this drop for today, unless I see you post something so incredibly asinine that I am forced to rise like the freakin' Phoenix in an attempt to teach you some manners. lol

                      Besides, I find myself pulling my punches as it has been voiced that I am pounding on you in an insulting fashion. Not good for my "Mary Poppins' image and it really does take the fun out of the parry and thrust with you.

                      None of this is supposed to be personal. While I may think that you are an inbred, toothless goober that will have sexual relations with anything in your barn, I be no means want any of this to be deemed a personal attack. (Where the hell are the old emoticons when you need one?). It's nothing more than the on/off state of pixels on a screen and is not meant to hurt anyone. I strive to never intentionally hurt any human being and while I oftentimes debate whether or not you actually possess enough functioning synapses to meet the criteria for inclusion as a higher life form, I do not ever want to actually hurt, ridicule or offend you. That said, if I am able to get you so angry that you foam at the mouth and drop that ferret that your buggering - then it was a good day. A very good day, indeed.

                      I think I need a little time out on the dock as the day winds down.

                      I hope that you accept my inane drivel in the spirit with which it is intended. Not that I don't believe in what I say. I do. I know that you are just as adamant in your beliefs. The problem lies in the fact that only one of us can be right and unfortunately for you, that would be me.

                      It's like my therapists always reminds me, I'm not just a narcissist, I'm a very special kind of narcissist. lol

                      Peace, brother!

                      Cheers. - Frank
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          • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
            Banned
            Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

            As what seems to happen frequently, your so called facts are only facts inside your head. These are leaders of the Taliban, not Al Qaeda. There is a difference and as Richard said "...they are Afghani Taliban who are very different from the Pakistani Taliban". Nice try though.
            You, sir are 100% correctamundo! Still, I wouldn't want one to marry my sister and after the years spent at Gitmo, I'm sure they have a lot of intense, pent up hatred for America and will spend the rest of their lives seeking revenge in the most horrific ways that they can dream up. I doubt that they dream of unicorns and rainbows.

            This is not going to end well - or soon. They are all in their 40's I believe.

            Cheers. - Frank
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            • Profile picture of the author seasoned
              Originally Posted by BigFrank View Post

              You, sir are 100% correctamundo! Still, I wouldn't want one to marry my sister and after the years spent at Gitmo, I'm sure they have a lot of intense, pent up hatred for America and will spend the rest of their lives seeking revenge in the most horrific ways that they can dream up. I doubt that they dream of unicorns and rainbows.
              Well, they DID start out that way! And a number of them don't treat women well ANYWAY!

              Steve
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          • Profile picture of the author Doran Peck
            Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

            As what seems to happen frequently, your so called facts are only facts inside your head. These are leaders of the Taliban, not Al Qaeda. There is a difference and as Richard said "...they are Afghani Taliban who are very different from the Pakistani Taliban". Nice try though.
            mmmm yes, and falling off the empire state building is very different from falling off the seattle space needle. Hate when people confuse the two.
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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    Yeah, you never know. I mean look at clinton. It was one of the relatively few times you had THREE major candidates. It was somewhat close and if perot weren't there. If lies weren't spread about perot. Not that they weren't spread about the others, but there were a number spread even about WHO perot was. It seemed many felt a billionare HAD to be involved in oil, especially if he were texan! Perot WASN'T. Clinton could well have LOST both times. Of course, if he lost the first time he might not even have run the second.

    And the deal with GORE? A LOT of potential problems with that. Those voting cards are MORONIC! They are made to be run through some toy thing ONCE. THEY ARE A JOKE! In my district in LA county, we had the same stupid ballots and a DECADE earlier I thought they were a joke and it was like WHAT IF someone brushed it the wrong way, WHAT IF it didn't go into the machine just so, WHAT IF someone forgot to put it in its protective packet!?!?!? They had a cover and you were supposed to take it out, insert it into this joke of a machine, carefully and FULLY punch it, pull it out, VERIFY it was punched, put it into the packet, and put that in the box. HOW could you recount it? And what of the votes that weren't counted, like absentee?

    HERE'S a thought! Let's make EACH district a square with most being the same size. Let's have the SAME voting place each time in the center of the district. Let's mandate that any public transportation, or transportation over 10 people be done with NO respect to the party. FIX THE BALLOT PROBLEMS! And NO party should have sole access to raw, or non published, data.
    It might cost the republicans, or the democrats, but have you SEEN all the gerrymandering?!?!?!?

    As I recall, I'm OK with carlin. I can't say that about maher. You want liberal? Maher is it. I am surprised how he echoed a few things against liberals, but everything else? JUST LIBERAL!

    Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author David Maschke


    ...And then they said we may have broken the law by not letting Congress know...
    Like we fall under the jurisdiction of the law meant for the peasants...!
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    • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
      Originally Posted by David Maschke View Post



      ...And then they said we may have broken the law by not letting Congress know...
      Like we fall under the jurisdiction of the law meant for the peasants...!
      Is that picture taken after the passage of the ACA?


      How about after the removal of OBL?


      Or maybe after his RE-election?

      If he broke the law then by all means those folks on the hill that feel that way should move forward with impeachment proceedings - over the bringing home of the last known American POW in Afghanistan.

      The only reason they haven't done it already (for numerous imagined offenses) is they fear the folks in the middle (independents) will see it exactly for what it is and leave them in droves.

      And/Or...

      They know they won't have the votes in the senate because you need at least 66 votes (maybe 67), so it'll be a waste of time and energy and also it will open up their next president for the same type of treatment.


      - They will also probably lose the support of and be loudly condemned even by the often times scandal mongering-compliant MSM.

      - Hardly anyone will support that crap except the usual suspects.

      Maybe they're waiting for after the midterms?
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      • Profile picture of the author David Maschke
        Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

        Is that picture taken after the passage of the ACA?


        How about after the removal of OBL?


        Or maybe after his RE-election?

        If he broke the law then by all means those folks on the hill that feel that way should move forward with impeachment proceedings - over the bringing home of the last known American POW in Afghanistan.

        The only reason they haven't done it already (for numerous imagined offenses) is they fear the folks in the middle (independents) will see it exactly for what it is and leave them in droves.

        And/Or...

        They know they won't have the votes in the senate because you need at least 66 votes (maybe 67), so it'll be a waste of time and energy and also it will open up their next president for the same type of treatment.

        Maybe they're waiting for after the midterms?
        You and I both know there will be no impeachment hearings. That's what makes it so funny
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        • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
          Originally Posted by David Maschke View Post

          You and I both know there will be no impeachment hearings. That's what makes it so funny
          Are YOU saying that what's he's done in office has risen to the level, of high crimes and misdemeanors and are grounds for impeachment - but for some reason or another it won't happen?

          That's what you seem to be saying but if I'm wrong please correct me.
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          • Profile picture of the author Kay King
            let it go - really? So someone doesn't like your guy - as you so love to post....

            he's entitled.

            But I agree - the image is a low blow and takes it political in a big way

            You do NOT simply "leave a note"
            Steve - I posted "leave a note" because that is exactly what was referred to by a news show.

            I don't what the note said - who it was to - whether it was meant to be found or not. Until I know more about it - it's just "a note" that "they say" was left on the base by Bergdahl.

            Just makes it a bit more interesting to me.
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            • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
              Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

              As what seems to happen frequently, your so called facts are only facts inside your head. These are leaders of the Taliban, not Al Qaeda. There is a difference and as Richard said "...they are Afghani Taliban who are very different from the Pakistani Taliban". Nice try though.
              This is a massively important point, the Afghans are called Taliban where as many are ex and current Afghan Mujahadeen (Excuse my spelling there are a number of variations). The Pakistani Taliban are not, though they like to refer to themselves as that. They're the ones that went to Afghanistan and took it over, in no less unsavoury a way as the Russians attempted too. They succeeded where the Russians could not by using religion.

              Naturally there are many Afghans on the side of the Pakistani Taliban but the Afghan Taliban in Qatar and elsewhere are far more open to peace and going forward it will be a great help if people recognise that. From the point of view of ending this, a split between the Afghan and Pakistani Taliban is a fine moment, perhaps we should negotiate with them (Afghan Taliban).

              Besides, the Afghan Taliban don't see themselves as terrorists but as holy warriors trying to get a country back that has been continually invaded by foreigners for as long as I can remember.

              Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

              I miss Riffle. I miss Shane.
              I miss them too and you Claude.

              Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

              I think the guy is still in a German Hospital - doctors there were quoted as "he might be here for some time". He's to be "treated and debriefed in Germany" according to one report I read.

              New wrinkle is the claim he left a note when he left base - if that's the case debriefing could be interesting.
              I've read so many conspiracy theories now it hurts (I'm not saying that's one by the way, just in general). One person said he defected but why shed your armour and guns when that would be rather useful to your new buddies? I originally thought he sounded like he had PTSD but another report said that's what he wanted it to look like.

              Frankly it's all very odd, especially with so much kept under wraps. I don't have a clue really.

              It reminds me of a recent plane crash.
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              • Profile picture of the author Dan Riffle
                Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                I miss Riffle. I miss Shane.
                Originally Posted by Richard Van View Post

                I miss them too and you Claude.
                I'm not dead, gentlemen. I'm just trying to avoid these silly debate threads. I know with roughly 98% accuracy what everyone's posts will say. It's like being in a room with a hundred people and everyone's talking to their own hand puppet.
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                • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                  Originally Posted by Dan Riffle View Post

                  I'm not dead, gentlemen. I'm just trying to avoid these silly debate threads. I know with roughly 98% accuracy what everyone's posts will say. It's like being in a room with a hundred people and everyone's talking to their own hand puppet.
                  Poop! Ha! Did you know I was going to say that?

                  And my "Thank" gives you your 2,000th Thank.....You owe me a beer.
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                  • Profile picture of the author Dan Riffle
                    Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                    Poop! Ha! Did you know I was going to say that?

                    And my "Thank" gives you your 2,000th Thank.....You owe me a beer.
                    Actually, I did know you'd say that. Most of what you write is poop.



                    (Of course, so is most of what I write...)
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                • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                  Originally Posted by Dan Riffle View Post

                  I'm not dead, gentlemen. I'm just trying to avoid these silly debate threads. I know with roughly 98% accuracy what everyone's posts will say. It's like being in a room with a hundred people and everyone's talking to their own hand puppet.
                  Actually, I get the image of hundreds of little mudskippers defending their little patch of glop.

                  And, of course, the funny part to me...is that I jump in the mud and argue that my glop of mud is the right glop of mud..and that I am King Of The Mudskippers.

                  And my thought is usually "What will this Mudskipper do if I poke them with a stick in this direction?"

                  And you're right, 98% of the time the responses are predictable. That's why I miss Shane.
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                  • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
                    Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                    And you're right, 98% of the time the responses are predictable. That's why I miss Shane.
                    Gee guys. I think there's enough bandwidth and pixels available here for the three of you to start any ole thread about whatever unpredictable topic you want.
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                • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
                  Originally Posted by Dan Riffle View Post

                  I'm not dead, gentlemen. I'm just trying to avoid these silly debate threads. I know with roughly 98% accuracy what everyone's posts will say. It's like being in a room with a hundred people and everyone's talking to their own hand puppet.
                  I'm in the 2% and you know it.

                  This thread was just one of the rare threads where I decided not to post poo.

                  Now I've changed my mind.

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            • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
              Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

              let it go - really? So someone doesn't like your guy - as you so love to post....

              he's entitled.

              But I agree - the image is a low blow and takes it political in a big way

              Steve - I posted "leave a note" because that is exactly what was referred to by a news show.

              I don't what the note said - who it was to - whether it was meant to be found or not. Until I know more about it - it's just "a note" that "they say" was left on the base by Bergdahl.

              Just makes it a bit more interesting to me.
              Have you let Bengazi go?


              Have you let the IRS thingy go?


              He's entitled and so am I.


              BTW...

              I let this go even though I thought it is preposterous when I read it.

              You said earlier in this thread...

              "This has to be sad for the Pres, too - he thought he was doing a service to negotiate this release and looks like someone didn't do much research beforehand."


              I say...

              ... I'm sure the admin was well aware of Bergdahl's situation since they had been talking to the Taliban for the last 2-3 years about his release and the admin decided no matter what the fallout was (and it was very predictable as far as I'm concerned) they were going to try to bring him home.

              The same crowd that couldn't/wouldn't give the POTUS a simple pat on the back for removing none other than OBL himself are by and large the same crowd upset with deal.

              Talk about a tough crowd - what a gas,
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              • Profile picture of the author seasoned
                Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

                Have you let Bengazi go?
                OK, so if your kids are killed, you are OK with things being delayed, and not even knowing who the suspects are?

                TRUE STORY! There was a girl whose mother was raped and KILLED! She hid! The rapist found her and tried to kill HER! She was left for dead! She went to a neighbors house. The wife came to the door. I forget her REAL name, but let's call her HILLARY! Anyway, the wife had the daughter wait on the doorstep. BLOODY! An ear DAMAGED! She had to wait for 45 MINUTES!!!!!!!!

                The little girl was young, and said her attacker LOOKED LIKE her uncle. Her uncle was in jail for YEARS! The police REFUSED to investigate! The girls mother had to investigate! She used DNA to find the attacker. In an interesting twist, the UNCLE had to collect te specimen, because he ended up in the SAME cell block that the RAPIST did. The rapist had a long violent history, so HE was in jail on another charge.

                So WHO was the rapist? HINT? HE WAS MARRIED! YEP! He was married to theSAME woman that kept the girl on the steps for 45 minutes!

                Say that girl was YOUR girl! Would YOU let it go? Would you do that even as your brother languished in prison?

                http://www.innocenceproject.org/Cont...nce_Elkins.php

                Have you let the IRS thingy go?
                OK, so I can sick a collector on you and you will just PAY? There is NO difference here, other than the fact that NORMAL collectors aren't given NEARLY as much lattitude, etc....

                Steve
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            • Profile picture of the author seasoned
              Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

              let it go - really? So someone doesn't like your guy - as you so love to post....

              he's entitled.

              But I agree - the image is a low blow and takes it political in a big way

              Steve - I posted "leave a note" because that is exactly what was referred to by a news show.

              I don't what the note said - who it was to - whether it was meant to be found or not. Until I know more about it - it's just "a note" that "they say" was left on the base by Bergdahl.

              Just makes it a bit more interesting to me.
              I agree it is more interesting, but I was only saying the note didn't matter, to the case of desertion.

              Steve
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            • Profile picture of the author ThomM
              Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

              let it go - really? So someone doesn't like your guy - as you so love to post....

              he's entitled.

              But I agree - the image is a low blow and takes it political in a big way

              Steve - I posted "leave a note" because that is exactly what was referred to by a news show.

              I don't what the note said - who it was to - whether it was meant to be found or not. Until I know more about it - it's just "a note" that "they say" was left on the base by Bergdahl.

              Just makes it a bit more interesting to me.
              I thought it showed the frustration of many (who are not republican or democrat) over a president that has over stepped his authority.
              A couple examples.
              When he postponed a few of the mandates of the ACA.
              Currently with this prisoner exchange.
              With our immigration laws.
              Like it says at this link, the Constitution is the ONLY official job description for the president.
              http://www.jfklibrary.org/~/media/as...nstitution.pdf
              When it comes to laws his job is to enforce them not ignore or change them, yet he has changed parts of the ACA by moving back mandates, ignored our immigration laws, and ignored a law that HE signed about giving congress 30 days notice before releasing any prisoners from gitmo.
              Of course TL will just see this as another attack from the right as opposed to just an American being concerned about the country and it's leader and thinks the president (no matter who that is or from what party) should always be held accountable.
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          • Profile picture of the author David Maschke
            Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

            Are YOU saying that what's he's done in office has risen to the level, of high crimes and misdemeanors and are grounds for impeachment - but for some reason or another it won't happen?

            Oh my, it's absolutely scandalous, isn't it? Not the law being broken, and not that nothing will be done about it. But I dared to make a comment.

            Please forgive me, next time I'll politely PM you and respectfully request your permission. Ha Ha Ha!
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            • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
              Originally Posted by David Maschke View Post

              Oh my, it's absolutely scandalous, isn't it? Not the law being broken, and not that nothing will be done about it. But I dared to make a comment.

              Please forgive me, next time I'll politely PM you and respectfully request your permission. Ha Ha Ha!

              I notice you didn't clearly answer my question.

              Make all the comments you like whenever you like about whomever you like.

              You publically have my permission in advance.
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          • Profile picture of the author seasoned
            Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

            Are YOU saying that what's he's done in office has risen to the level, of high crimes and misdemeanors and are grounds for impeachment - but for some reason or another it won't happen?

            That's what you seem to be saying but if I'm wrong please correct me.
            UNREAL! OF COURSE it has risen to that level!

            TWO reasons why few would even try to impeach him!

            1. Though the house must setup the case, etc... It is tried in the SENATE! So you can bet it wouldn't happen.
            2. The next in line is BIDEN. YOU may think the complaint is racist, but it isn't. HECK, even TIM aluded to bidens abilities. At this point, even John Boehner may not be considered good.

            Steve
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            • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
              Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

              UNREAL! OF COURSE it has risen to that level!

              TWO reasons why few would even try to impeach him!

              1. Though the house must setup the case, etc... It is tried in the SENATE! So you can bet it wouldn't happen.

              2. The next in line is BIDEN. YOU may think the complaint is racist, but it isn't. HECK, even TIM alluded to bidens abilities. At this point, even John Boehner may not be considered good.

              Steve
              That's one thing I do admire about you Steve, you're often as wrong as a 3 dollar bill but you're still not afraid to say what you think - no matter how preposterous it may be.

              Cheers!
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              • Profile picture of the author seasoned
                Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

                That's one thing I do admire about you Steve, you're often as wrong as a 3 dollar bill but you're still not afraid to say what you think - no matter how preposterous it may be.

                Cheers!
                HOW am I wrong here? FIRST impartial SITE in looking for how impeachmentis done:

                Process of Impeachment of the President of the United States

                The Full House (probably operating under special floor rules set by the House Rules Committee) will debate and vote on each Article of Impeachment.
                Should any one of the Articles of Impeachment be approved by a simple majority vote, the President will be "impeached." However, being impeached is sort of like being indicted of a crime. There still has to be a trial, which is where the US Senate comes in.
                In the Senate

                The Articles of Impeachment are received from the House.
                As for the second? You and tim disagree? For ONCE tim agrees with many republicans! And they ARE right! EVEN OBAMA said as much!

                Steve
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                • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
                  Originally Posted by seasoned View Post


                  As for the second? You and tim disagree? For ONCE tim agrees with many republicans! And they ARE right! EVEN OBAMA said as much!

                  Steve
                  Huh? I said Biden was gaffe prone just like Ben Carson seems to be. That doesn't mean either one couldn't be a good President, it just means it would make it more difficult to be elected. I actually think Biden would make a good President. Here's a preview look at what a Biden Presidency would be like:


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                  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
                    Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

                    Huh? I said Biden was gaffe prone just like Ben Carson seems to be. That doesn't mean either one couldn't be a good President, it just means it would make it more difficult to be elected. I actually think Biden would make a good President. Here's a preview look at what a Biden Presidency would be like:


                    OK, well gaffes can mean lives. YEAH, everyone occasionally messes up. but I think this is a strike against.

                    Steve
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                  • Profile picture of the author ThomM
                    Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

                    Huh? I said Biden was gaffe prone just like Ben Carson seems to be.
                    I always think back to Ford and how famous he made Chevy Chase.
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  • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
    A thoughtful article here:
    http://www.newsweek.com/truth-behind...er-swap-253218

    I read that part of the decision was that our government received videos showing Bowe's health deteriorating rapidly.

    About the note, I've read accounts that it strongly denounced the US. I've read other accounts
    that made it sound milder. Either way, it looks like he is facing desertion charges.
    Bowe Bergdahl left letter at Afghan base saying he'd left 'to start new life' | Mail Online

    I heard earlier tonight on a conservative radio talk show - Andy Dean - that he was really just a boy from
    Idaho looking for adventure. He was rejected by the French Foreign Legion.

    I too am holding back on opinion because Claude is Master of my multi-verse. lol (better than these emoticons) Seriously, it's one of those things that could be good or could be bad. Of course, it's very troubling that some of the five Taliban have ties to AlQueda and Iran and were against us in Afghanistan.
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  • Profile picture of the author salegurus
    I don't put much stock in what the media or Gov officials have to say these days but when his fellow Marines and brothers in arms came out to a man calling him a traitor and deserter that sealed the deal for me...
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  • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
    Congressional investigations are one thing; shrill partisan hackery is another. “

    There’s little that’s actually new here,” says Mitchell Reiss, a State Department official under President George W. Bush who also served as national security adviser to Mitt Romney.


    Another former Bush official speaks out via video...


    Ex-Bush Official: GWB Would Have Made Same Deal To Free Sgt. Bergdahl | Crooks and Liars


    On the June 3 edition of Fox News - Shepard Smith Reporting,...

    ... host Smith took umbrage at the reporting, saying,...

    ... "If you desert or commit treason, you have to be proved to have done so.

    We can't just decide because some people come on television and yakety yak, and we've got a report of this and a report of that and that's what happened.

    As the Army said, as the Pentagon said, you bring them home.

    You bring them home first, and then you investigate."
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  • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
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  • Profile picture of the author David Maschke
    Does anyone else wonder if the guys in here look cute wearing their official political party cheerleader outfits, or is it just me?

    xxx ooo xxx
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    • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
      Originally Posted by David Maschke View Post

      Does anyone else wonder if the guys in here look cute wearing their official political party cheerleader outfits, or is it just me?

      xxx ooo xxx
      Nope. Terra clarified that for me.
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  • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
    Recap Of Bergdahl Situation:


    Negative things people are saying...


    1: - He deserted and some are saying he should have been left there.

    2: - Soldiers were killed trying to save him.

    3: - Potus didn't notify congress in time - thus breaking the law.

    4: - Deal allowed Taliban bad guys to go free.

    5: - Bergdahl wasn't worth the swap.

    6: - Freed Talibans may hurt Americans in the future.

    7: - We negotiated with terrorists.

    8: - This trade will embolden terrorists to take more hostages etc.
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

      Recap Of Bergdahl Situation:


      What people are saying...


      1: - He deserted and some are saying he should have been left there.

      2: - Soldiers were killed trying to save him.

      3: - Potus didn't notify congress in time - thus breaking the law.

      4: - Deal allowed Taliban bad guys to go free.

      5: - Bergdahl wasn't worth the swap.

      6: - Freed Talibans may hurt Americans in the future.

      7: - We negotiated with terrorists.
      You misspelled #5!

      It was 5. Berdahl is a TRAITOR.

      Apparently there is ample evidence that he NEVER wanted to be there, always hated the US, and planned to join the terrorists. They now say he actively sought them out. So he joined the army to basically get a free ride there, provisions, and perhaps a bit of arabic training. And WHY was he promoted TWICE, or even once? Did he start out as a PFC, or a private? EVERYONE should want to know because things like this affect the deficit and it is unfair to those that EARNED such things!

      Steve
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    • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
      Per the Blaze article (post 111), his team leader says: "Following his disappearance, IEDs started going off directly under the trucks," he added. "They were getting perfect hits every time. Their ambushes were very calculated, very methodical, like they knew what we were going to do." The team leader also says that it was maybe coincidence, or maybe they forced the intel, but they have evidence Bowe actively sought the Taliban.

      Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

      Recap Of Bergdahl Situation:


      What people are saying...


      1: - He deserted and some are saying he should have been left there.

      2: - Soldiers were killed trying to save him.

      3: - Potus didn't notify congress in time - thus breaking the law.

      4: - Deal allowed Taliban bad guys to go free.

      5: - Bergdahl wasn't worth the swap.

      6: - Freed Talibans may hurt Americans in the future.

      7: - We negotiated with terrorists.
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      • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
        Originally Posted by bizgrower View Post

        Per the Blaze article (post 111), his team leader says: “Following his disappearance, IEDs started going off directly under the trucks,” he added. “They were getting perfect hits every time. Their ambushes were very calculated, very methodical, like they knew what we were going to do.” The team leader also says that it was maybe coincidence, or maybe they forced the intel, but they have evidence Bowe actively sought the Taliban.
        Has there been any news on why his Dad said the phrase he did, spoke in Pashtu and why he thought his son may have forgotten the language of which he's spoken since birth???? Or was English his second language?

        The Simple Arabic Phrase Bowe Bergdahl’s Father Said at a Press Conference With Obama That Has Sparked a Heated Debate | TheBlaze.com

        I hadn't seen or heard about that until I saw it when I read your article.
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        • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
          Richard,

          I have not looked for more about his Dad speaking Pashtu. As far as I know, the Bergdahl's
          were born in the USA and Bowe grew up in Idaho (mountainous and not heavily populated).
          I don't believe English is his second language and find it hard to believe Bowe would forget
          his native language. Especially because he sought out an English speaker when he left
          the US troops.


          ------------------

          One thing people need to understand is that IEDs (improvised explosive devices) are
          not always just little bombs. I got stuck in a truck stop during a blizzard and one of the guys
          there had been a truck driver in Afghanistan (they were civilian contractors, and after a year,
          2 of six in his original group survived). IEDs can take out semi tractors and armored
          vehicles. One way they were deployed was to timely explode behind a guard rail and whip
          a large section of the guard rail into a truck.

          They traveled in convoys and once a vehicle was attacked, they moved faster. A sort of ambulance
          truck was part of the convoy and would stop at the attacked vehicle, rescuing the driver only if he
          could move on his own. War is stupid.




          Originally Posted by Richard Van View Post

          Has there been any news on why his Dad said the phrase he did, spoke in Pashtu and why he thought his son may have forgotten the language of which he's spoken since birth???? Or was English his second language?

          The Simple Arabic Phrase Bowe Bergdahl’s Father Said at a Press Conference With Obama That Has Sparked a Heated Debate | TheBlaze.com

          I hadn't seen or heard about that until I saw it when I read your article.
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          • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
            The important thing here is that I don't see anyone jumping to conclusions, getting angry without all the facts, or name calling.

            What a reasonable rational country we live in. And I'm proud to be a part of it.
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      • Profile picture of the author seasoned
        Originally Posted by bizgrower View Post

        Per the Blaze article (post 111), his team leader says: "Following his disappearance, IEDs started going off directly under the trucks," he added. "They were getting perfect hits every time. Their ambushes were very calculated, very methodical, like they knew what we were going to do." The team leader also says that it was maybe coincidence, or maybe they forced the intel, but they have evidence Bowe actively sought the Taliban.
        That's ANOTHER thing! The idea that the IEDs worked SO much better. Bowe likely studied such things. Maybe even the ARMY taught him. And he could have improved the mechanisms.

        The taliban may have been under the impression that they affected the army more, or that the army had armor, and bowe could have told them the truth. So with a bit better trigger, and better placement, they could cause a LOT of damage.

        The thing is I have YET to see ANY picture of bowe in captivity! OH, I have seen the ones CLAIMING he is in captivity, but there wasn't ANY apparent pretense of it being against his will or to his detriment. Also, he acts like a moslem.

        Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
    Bergdahl Uproar Halts Plan For Return Celebration;

    The town of 8,000 has been swamped with hate mail and angry calls, labeling the 28-year-old Bergdahl un-American and a traitor. Given the prospect of large crowds on both sides of the debate, organizers abruptly canceled their welcome home celebration.

    Bergdahl Uproar Halts Plan For Return Celebration
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  • Profile picture of the author garyv
    I like Charles Krauthammer - but he's definitely wrong on this one. I hear people saying that we should do anything to get our fellow troops back - but that's the biggest load of BS I've ever heard. Would we consider setting off a Nuke somewhere had that of been the terms of this negotiation? Of course not. There have to be limits to a negotiation, and we've crossed them. And it was quite obvious to this Admin that we crossed them, otherwise it would not have been done in secret - and against the current law.

    And we know now that it was not for health reasons that they couldn't wait for the 30 day notice - because there's now video footage of his release and he was plenty healthy enough to last another 30 days. - Not even sure how you could even try and defend this.
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    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      Originally Posted by garyv View Post

      I like Charles Krauthammer - but he's definitely wrong on this one. I hear people saying that we should do anything to get our fellow troops back - but that's the biggest load of BS I've ever heard. Would we consider setting off a Nuke somewhere had that of been the terms of this negotiation? .
      I think that comparing trading prisoners, with setting off a nuclear bomb...for a prisoner, is completely fair and rational. They are almost exactly the same thing.

      Originally Posted by garyv View Post

      The only thing I can see salvaging this, is a drone attack upon the release of these 5.
      Completely reasonable. And it needs "salvaging" otherwise we are all doomed. And there would be no repercussions, after killing 5 prisoners we just released. A drone strike would be seen as "Boys being boys", and laughed off by the rest of the world..

      This Forum should be used as a government resource for ideas on how to take care on these problems.
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      • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

        I think that comparing trading prisoners, with setting off a nuclear bomb...for a prisoner, is completely fair and rational. They are almost exactly the same thing.
        Lol. Good thing I wasn't drinking my coffee at the time I read this.
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        • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
          Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

          Lol. Good thing I wasn't drinking my coffee at the time.

          And there may be a good reason the admin didn't share the proceedings with certain members of congress.

          IMHO, there's a very good chance one of them would have leaked the deal in order to blow it up.
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      • Profile picture of the author garyv
        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

        I think that comparing trading prisoners, with setting off a nuclear bomb...for a prisoner, is completely fair and rational. They are almost exactly the same thing.
        - That's true. And in today's educational system (using Common Core) 5 terrorists is closer to being equal to 1 deserter than ever before.

        But.... that wasn't my point. My point is that there must be a limit. And the argument that you do "anything" to bring back your soldiers is BS.
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        • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
          Originally Posted by garyv View Post

          - That's true. And in today's educational system (using Common Core) 5 terrorists is closer to being equal to 1 deserter than ever before.

          But.... that wasn't my point. My point is that there must be a limit. And the argument that you do "anything" to bring back your soldiers is BS.

          And if the President said "There are limits to what I'll do to bring back a soldier"...he would have been crucified for that.
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          • Profile picture of the author garyv
            Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

            And if the President said "There are limits to what I'll do to bring back a soldier"...he would have been crucified for that.

            I don't thinks so - because this same deal was proposed already in the past and turned down without a peep.
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            • Profile picture of the author Kay King
              And there may be a good reason the admin didn't share the proceedings with certain members of congress.

              IMHO, there's a very good chance one of them would have leaked the deal in order to blow it up.
              No - he didn't tell them because he knew there would be questions and some disapproval. He didn't tell them because he brought it up possibility in the past and they didn't go for it.

              So what if it leaked - if it's a good plan a leak wouldn't stop it.

              It's not coincidence that stories like this happen just when a scandal or problem is hitting the news big time.

              VA crisis/scandal in the news. What better to cover that headline than "pres releases soldier from captivity".

              I'm very cynical on this story, I admit. I do think the Pres took action without fully vetting the background of the prisoner.

              Worse, I think he focused on the wrong things and failed miserably to insert the FBI or other federal entity into VA hospitals to secure records and prevent coverups. Stall for a few more weeks and there won't be anything to find....
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              • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
                Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                I do think the Pres took action without fully vetting the background of the prisoner.
                The only background of the prisoner that matters in this case is that he is an American. If he deserted he can be dealt with when he is home. If he aided the enemy he can also be dealt with at home.
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                • Profile picture of the author garyv
                  Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

                  The only background of the prisoner that matters in this case is that he is an American. If he deserted he can be dealt with when he is home. He he aided the enemy he can also be dealt with at home.
                  That's not what matters. We've left deserters behind before. You don't make deals using deserters. So just being an "American" is not all that matters.
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                  • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
                    Originally Posted by garyv View Post

                    We've left deserters behind before. You don't make deals using deserters.
                    So you have already decided he did desert and the punishment would be to forget about him, which would basically be a death sentence?

                    It seems this guy had a history of wondering away from his job. "A classified military report detailing the Army's investigation into the disappearance of Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl in June 2009 says that he had wandered away from assigned areas before -- both at a training range in California and at his remote outpost in Afghanistan -- and then returned... he sneaked or crawled off a designated course or range either to see how far he could go or to see a sunrise or sunset." Honestly, this guy seems like he has some issues. Plus, one of his best friends had been killed recently which could have added to his unstableness. Doesn't seem right to me to give this guy a death sentence.
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                    • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
                      Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

                      So you have already decided he did desert and the punishment would be to forget about him, which would basically be a death sentence?

                      It seems this guy had a history of wondering away from his job. "A classified military report detailing the Army's investigation into the disappearance of Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl in June 2009 says that he had wandered away from assigned areas before -- both at a training range in California and at his remote outpost in Afghanistan -- and then returned... he sneaked or crawled off a designated course or range either to see how far he could go or to see a sunrise or sunset." Honestly, this guy seems like he has some issues. Plus, one of his best friends had been killed recently which could have added to his unstableness. Doesn't seem right to me to give this guy a death sentence.
                      Too bad we were not as smart as the French Foreign Legion.
                      They did not even let him in.
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                      • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                        I think that in a month, we'll know enough more...that every politician will have a different story than they have now, we'll each think about it a little differently, and there will be some other shiny object for us to;

                        Blame on the White house
                        See as a conspiracy by the government to make us mindless slaves.
                        See as evidence of the end of the world
                        See as proof that we have psychic powers.

                        And we'll get to argue about that too. What an exciting world we live in.

                        Originally Posted by Dan Riffle View Post

                        Of course he has no apologies. He's never made a mistake in his life. Just ask him.
                        Dan; Everyone is like that. Every president in history. Every politician. . Nobody accepts blame. It's hard wired into us. It has nothing to do with politics.
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                        • Profile picture of the author garyv
                          Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                          I think that in a month, we'll know enough more...that every politician will have a different story than they have now, we'll each think about it a little differently, and there will be some other shiny object for us to;

                          Blame on the White house
                          See as a conspiracy by the government to make us mindless slaves.
                          See as evidence of the end of the world
                          See as proof that we have psychic powers.

                          And we'll get to argue about that too. What an exciting world we live in.
                          That's what they're hoping for anyway...

                          Isn't it interesting how the Admin keeps bringing out these shiny objects every few weeks? It's never real though... Always Zirconium. That's how these "fake" scandals work I guess.
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                          • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
                            Originally Posted by garyv View Post

                            That's what they're hoping for anyway...

                            Isn't it interesting how the Admin keeps bringing out these shiny objects every few weeks? It's never real though... Always Zirconium. That's how these "fake" scandals work I guess.

                            One thing is clear, lives were put in danger because soldiers went out looking for him.



                            But...


                            Is there anyone, anywhere in any position who could tell you that no lives were lost looking for the soldier that you'd believe?
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                            • Profile picture of the author ThomM
                              So now White House aides are saying Bergdahl is being swift boated because every soldier that served with him is saying he walked away from the base intentionally.
                              Despite all the evidence supporting their claims.
                              According to Todd, a frustrated White House that was expecting joyous news-cycles out of the Bergdahl release is apparently attempting to smear veterans who served with Sergeant Bergdahl as liars.
                              This, despite the fact that all the objective documentation we've seen so far (including a military investigation) backs the claim that Bergdahl abandoned his post and was not "taken in battle" or "served honorably" as National Security Adviser Susan Rice falsely claimed Sunday on ABC's This Week.
                              What "swift boating" really means to Democrats is the use of facts against their phony narratives. Chuck Todd: White House Aides Accuse Vets of 'Swift Boating Bergdahl'
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                              • Profile picture of the author garyv
                                Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

                                So now White House aides are saying Bergdahl is being swift boated because every soldier that served with him is saying he walked away from the base intentionally.
                                Despite all the evidence supporting their claims.

                                I'm not really sure they can get away with that claim, considering that there's plenty of evidence showing that people thought he had deserted from the very beginning. Here's a video from 2009 and there's already talk of him deserting in it. - So there's no way that he's being "swift boated".

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                                • Profile picture of the author Kay King
                                  With all the accusations and explanations flying....there's one thing not being mentioned.

                                  This man was released almost a week ago - and according to reports has not yet phoned home to talk to his family.

                                  That's not normal and makes me wonder if this guy is "released" or is "in our custody now".
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                                  • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
                                    Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                                    With all the accusations and explanations flying....there's one thing not being mentioned.

                                    This man was released almost a week ago - and according to reports has not yet phoned home to talk to his family.

                                    That's not normal and makes me wonder if this guy is "released" or is "in our custody now".

                                    After 5 years in captivity it may be normal.
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                                  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
                                    Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                                    With all the accusations and explanations flying....there's one thing not being mentioned.

                                    This man was released almost a week ago - and according to reports has not yet phoned home to talk to his family.

                                    That's not normal and makes me wonder if this guy is "released" or is "in our custody now".
                                    NO, they DID create a cover story for that! They CLAIM he is less than healthy, needs nourishment, etc... That video with him freely doing pushups, his acclimation, eating, etc... make me believe that is NOT true!
                                    They ALSO claim that he would be overwhelmed by talking with the family.

                                    So their basic plan, so they claim, is something like....

                                    1. Get him better.
                                    2. Have some short talks, and MAYBE visits, by family. All contact to be limited and short.
                                    3. Transition to something more frequent.
                                    4. Release him.

                                    But those first three steps could take a while. It accordance with what was said, they wouldn't simply have him talk on the phone endlessly.

                                    To hear THEM talk, you would think that his talking to the family is like someone that has an EXTREME fear of flying. And you know how THEY may be acclimated to the plane, take short flights, and eventually take whatever flight they would have liked to in the first case.


                                    Steve
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                            • Profile picture of the author garyv
                              Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

                              One thing is clear, lives were put in danger because soldiers went out looking for him.



                              But...


                              Is there anyone, anywhere in any position who could tell you that no lives were lost looking for the soldier that you'd believe?
                              Yes of course. But that's not even the issue. We negotiated away 5 high ranking terrorists, knowing full well that there's evidence pointing to his desertion. - And even if he never deserted, the negotiations were a mistake. The same negotiation was turned down by Hillary in 2011... why?
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                        • Profile picture of the author Dan Riffle
                          Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                          Dan; Everyone is like that. Every president in history. Every politician. . Nobody accepts blame. It's hard wired into us. It has nothing to do with politics.
                          I never said he was the only one.

                          However, how did I know that TL would fault the source and how did I know you'd chime in with a life lesson-esque post?

                          I'm officially challenging you for official forum psychic.
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                          • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
                            Originally Posted by Dan Riffle View Post

                            I never said he was the only one.

                            However, how did I know that TL would fault the source and how did I know you'd chime in with a life lesson-esque post?

                            I'm officially challenging you for official forum psychic.
                            TL didn't fault the source.

                            I simply say it was a corny article that could give someone the impression that #44 has never admitted he made a mistake while in office when in fact he has on numerous occasions.
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                    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
                      Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

                      So you have already decided he did desert and the punishment would be to forget about him, which would basically be a death sentence?

                      It seems this guy had a history of wondering away from his job. "A classified military report detailing the Army's investigation into the disappearance of Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl in June 2009 says that he had wandered away from assigned areas before -- both at a training range in California and at his remote outpost in Afghanistan -- and then returned... he sneaked or crawled off a designated course or range either to see how far he could go or to see a sunrise or sunset." Honestly, this guy seems like he has some issues. Plus, one of his best friends had been killed recently which could have added to his unstableness. Doesn't seem right to me to give this guy a death sentence.
                      Let's see how they handled this in the civil war:

                      Deserters in the Civil War | Teachinghistory.org

                      Steve
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                      • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
                        Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

                        Let's see how they handled this in the civil war:

                        Deserters in the Civil War | Teachinghistory.org

                        Steve
                        So, we should brand him on the hip with a D?
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                        • Profile picture of the author MikeAmbrosio
                          Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

                          So, we should brand him on the hip with a D?
                          No. We should pat him on the head and say "It's ok. No one is angry."
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                        • Profile picture of the author seasoned
                          Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

                          So, we should brand him on the hip with a D?
                          HEY, WHY NOT!?!?!? It was good enough as far as lincoln was concerned. SO MANY stay still for tattooing today. This should be a veritable walk in the park!

                          BTW They have now admitted that, for at least 4 years, he has been a moslem, acted as such, and fought beside them. They ALSO claim that they were told that this was to be secret and, if it went public, he would be killed. The threat doesn't make any sense!

                          Steve
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                          • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
                            Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

                            HEY, WHY NOT!?!?!? It was good enough as far as lincoln was concerned. SO MANY stay still for tattooing today. This should be a veritable walk in the park!
                            Well, if he is actually convicted of desertion, it's better than a virtual death sentence which a few of you have suggested. That article also says many were offered amnesty if they came back.
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                            • Profile picture of the author ThomM
                              Makes you wonder what was more important to the admin.
                              Bring home one person or freeing 5 top level taliban
                              The deal to free Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl in exchange for five Taliban detainees held by the U.S. military nixed a broader effort by the Department of Defense to include other U.S. citizens held by the Taliban and its allies, a top congressional aide said Thursday.
                              The Department of Defense had a "broader goal" of including Caitlan Coleman of York , Pa., her baby who was born in captivity and her Canadian husband, Joshua Boyle, in a deal to free Bergdahl, said Joe Kasper, chief of staff to Rep. Duncan Hunter, R-Calif., who sits on the House Armed Services Committee.Pentagon effort to free more hostages with Bergdahl nixed
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                            • Profile picture of the author seasoned
                              Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

                              Well, it's better than a virtual death sentence which a few of you have suggested. That article also says many were offered amnesty if they came back.
                              That WAS better than what WAS called for! TODAY, they offer an even MORE lenient sentence, but even *****THAT***** is no longer followed. I think the last time they FEIGNED compliance was in the 70s or even the 60s. TODAY, they often ignore that and give an even LIGHTER sentence.

                              I watched videos from a danish youtuber for a while, and she discusses a lot of her life in detail and talks about denmark. One thing she normally likes about denmark bit her in the rear and she didn't like it. Someone near her was MURDERED! IIRC it was a boss of hers. And the murderer got a VERY light sentence. HECK, wikipedia says you can never really be imprisoned for murder in Denmark. INSTEAD, you must be imprisoned for manslaughter. As you likely know, manslaughter usually carries a lighter sentence. She said he got 16 years, IIRC.

                              HERE'S an interesting wiki article on this:

                              In Denmark, a life sentence (Livsvarigt fængsel in Danish) theoretically means life without parole: that prisoners will spend the rest of their lives in prison. However, prisoners are entitled to a pardoning hearing after 12 years, and upon motion of the minister of justice, the Danish King or Queen may grant a pardon, subject to a 5-year probationary period.
                              Prisoners sentenced to life imprisonment serve an average of 16 years, more for cases considered to be particularly grave. The only example in modern times of an individual serving significantly more than 16 years in prison is Palle Sørensen, who served 33 years for a quadruple police murder.
                              Steve
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                • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
                  Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

                  The only background of the prisoner that matters in this case is that he is an American. If he deserted he can be dealt with when he is home. He he aided the enemy he can also be dealt with at home.
                  That's about what (Ret) General Mcchrystal said recently.
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                • Profile picture of the author seasoned
                  Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

                  The only background of the prisoner that matters in this case is that he is an American. If he deserted he can be dealt with when he is home. He he aided the enemy he can also be dealt with at home.
                  If we said "HO HUM, he deserted! He WANTED this! BYE BYE!" We would have more than 6 more people alive, and would have saved time and money.

                  Doing what we did, those 6 people died, and they have their generals back. Apparently NOBODY even CLAIMED any of that was wrong. It seems that over 2/3rds of those that should know say he was looking for the taliban, and hated the US. I would trust a person over there rather that someone that was ordered by another that was ordered by another that had info pumped through an agenda driven machine 3-4 times removed, that may not have ANY witness' report..

                  Steve
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              • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
                Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                No - he didn't tell them because he knew there would be questions and some disapproval. He didn't tell them because he brought it up possibility in the past and they didn't go for it.

                So what if it leaked - if it's a good plan a leak wouldn't stop it.

                It's not coincidence that stories like this happen just when a scandal or problem is hitting the news big time.

                VA crisis/scandal in the news. What better to cover that headline than "pres releases soldier from captivity".

                I'm very cynical on this story, I admit. I do think the Pres took action without fully vetting the background of the prisoner.

                Worse, I think he focused on the wrong things and failed miserably to insert the FBI or other federal entity into VA hospitals to secure records and prevent coverups. Stall for a few more weeks and there won't be anything to find....
                So it sounds like you've joined Rick "The Forgetful" Perry in thinking that this is all part of some type of distraction from the VA scandal.

                The super scandal you crave for has not happened - at least nothing has stuck.

                Take a guess why?

                The VA situation would have melted away anyway because most people understand the problems at the VA do cut across all admins.

                And of course everything regarding the VA could have been handled better.

                And the other so-called scandals were manufactured no matter how much folks like yourself want to believe them.


                "You said...

                I'm very cynical on this story, I admit.

                I do think the Pres took action without fully vetting the background of the prisoner."

                I say...

                It can be a coincidence because there are always lots of irons in the fire for any admin.

                From everything I've heard, members of congress were formally told that something like this could happen.

                You're grasping at straws...

                ... if you think the entire situation was not vetted along with anticipating the hollow objections by folks who've already said stuff like we need to do everything in our power to get our soldier back and then when it happens - predictably they have a thousand problems with the deal.

                About the possible leaking...

                The admin couldn't tell only the dem members of congress and exclude the GOP members since that would have been a scandal unto itself and...

                Whether it's a good plan or not won't matter to a group of people obsessed with preventing the POTUS from any achievement and/or nailing the president with a scandal that they hope will be a big part of his legacy and lose his party lots of votes in the next election.

                You say a good plan would overcome any leaking?

                I say...

                If the howlers of "Birtherism" when joined by the scandal mongering MSM could force a POTUS to reveal his long form birth certificate - anything is possible.

                BTW...

                You didn't have to say you were happy he's home if you really didn't mean it and you can rescind it if you like. Lots of folks are scrubbing their websites and deleting their tweets.
                Signature

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                • Profile picture of the author seasoned
                  Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

                  So it sounds like you've joined Rick "The Forgetful" Perry in thinking that this is all part of some type of distraction from the VA scandal.

                  The scandal you crave for has not happened - at least nothing has stuck.

                  Take a guess why?

                  The VA situation would have melted away anyway because most people understand the problems at the VA do cut across all admins.
                  UH OH!!!!!! CAREFUL!!!!!!! YEAH, people have said for a long time such problems have occurred. At least at one point, bush was talking about changes that must take place. Obama said the SAME(even though 6+ years LATER he claimed he heard about it on the NEWS recently!!!!! )! But YOU can't say anything abut this! You know why? It is the GOVERNMENT you say is so great! It is SINGLE PAYER that you say is SO great! And NOW after fighting half the country, you admit WE WERE RIGHT!?!?!?

                  OH MAN!

                  And of course everything regarding the VA could have been handled better.
                  YEP, but they WEREN'T!

                  And the other so-called scandals were manufactured no matter how much folks like yourself want to believe them.
                  NAME ONE that wasn't real! Even ONE!

                  "You said...

                  I'm very cynical on this story, I admit.

                  I do think the Pres took action without fully vetting the background of the prisoner."

                  I say...

                  It can be a coincidence because there are always lots of irons in the fire for any admin.
                  THAT is why we have something called the GOVERNMENT! Say what you want about the president but 90% of his job is supposed to be asking, suggesting, and approving. NOTE! VETTING and the like aren't in that list. WHY? Because it is IMPOSSIBLE! THAT is why you have many THOUSANDS of people to debrief, investigate, research. And that is just for the MILITARY! They do NOT care about the IRS, or obamas handicap, or obamas vacations, or elections, etc.... There are MANY others to investigate the IRS.

                  From everything I've heard, members of congress were formally told that something like this could happen.
                  YEAH, they were told 100s of years ago. SO WHAT? They didn't know about THIS, and didn't approve it.

                  ... if you think the entire situation was not vetted along with anticipating the hollow objections by folks who've already said stuff like we need to do everything in our power to get our soldier back and then when it happens - predictably they have a thousand problems with the deal.
                  You DON'T use your last drop of water to power a drill for a well. There IS a LIMIT!

                  The admin couldn't tell only the dem members of congress and exclude the GOP members since that would have been a scandal unto itself and...
                  SUPPOSEDLY, on the bergdahl thing, he only informed reid. NORMALLY, one might think that is enough, but reid would do NOTHING to interfere, so he wouldn't breath a word. OBAMA might as well have written it on a letter, addressed it to all of congress, sealed it in an envelope, and set it ablaze!

                  Whether it's a good plan or not won't matter to a group of people obsessed with preventing the POTUS from any achievement and/or nailing the president with a scandal that they hope will be a big part of his legacy and lose his party lots of votes in the next election.
                  You REALLY think ANY republican thinks they could change your minds? And WHY would anyone try to stop a good thing for all? People just don't like one sided things when THEY are the only ones giving. HEY, if you want to go elsewhere and do all I outlined, GREAT! I am sure NO republican would stop you. If all you say is true, and all I say is false, it would be a PARADISE! IMAGINE! Drinks flowing from every crevice, NO wars, NO weapons, you can take ANY drugs you wish, FREE healthcare, HIGH minimum wage, NOBODY would have to work, Democrats would win 100% of the time, etc....

                  If the howlers of "Birtherism" when joined by the scandal mongering MSM could force a POTUS to reveal his long form birth certificate - anything is possible.
                  BTW you DO know that birtherism, in the 2007-current era started with MCCAIN, RIGHT?

                  John McCain’s Presidential Eligibility

                  S.Res.511 - 110th Congress (2007-2008): A resolution recognizing that John Sidney McCain, III, is a natural born citizen. | Congress.gov | Library of Congress

                  Steve
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                  • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
                    Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

                    UH OH!!!!!! CAREFUL!!!!!!! YEAH, people have said for a long time such problems have occurred. At least at one point, bush was talking about changes that must take place. Obama said the SAME(even though 6+ years LATER he claimed he heard about it on the NEWS recently!!!!! )! But YOU can't say anything abut this! You know why? It is the GOVERNMENT you say is so great! It is SINGLE PAYER that you say is SO great! And NOW after fighting half the country, you admit WE WERE RIGHT!?!?!?

                    OH MAN!



                    YEP, but they WEREN'T!



                    NAME ONE that wasn't real! Even ONE!



                    THAT is why we have something called the GOVERNMENT! Say what you want about the president but 90% of his job is supposed to be asking, suggesting, and approving. NOTE! VETTING and the like aren't in that list. WHY? Because it is IMPOSSIBLE! THAT is why you have many THOUSANDS of people to debrief, investigate, research. And that is just for the MILITARY! They do NOT care about the IRS, or obamas handicap, or obamas vacations, or elections, etc.... There are MANY others to investigate the IRS.



                    YEAH, they were told 100s of years ago. SO WHAT? They didn't know about THIS, and didn't approve it.



                    You DON'T use your last drop of water to power a drill for a well. There IS a LIMIT!



                    SUPPOSEDLY, on the bergdahl thing, he only informed reid. NORMALLY, one might think that is enough, but reid would do NOTHING to interfere, so he wouldn't breath a word. OBAMA might as well have written it on a letter, addressed it to all of congress, sealed it in an envelope, and set it ablaze!



                    You REALLY think ANY republican thinks they could change your minds? And WHY would anyone try to stop a good thing for all? People just don't like one sided things when THEY are the only ones giving. HEY, if you want to go elsewhere and do all I outlined, GREAT! I am sure NO republican would stop you. If all you say is true, and all I say is false, it would be a PARADISE! IMAGINE! Drinks flowing from every crevice, NO wars, NO weapons, you can take ANY drugs you wish, FREE healthcare, HIGH minimum wage, NOBODY would have to work, Democrats would win 100% of the time, etc....



                    BTW you DO know that birtherism, in the 2007-current era started with MCCAIN, RIGHT?

                    John McCain's Presidential Eligibility

                    S.Res.511 - 110th Congress (2007-2008): A resolution recognizing that John Sidney McCain, III, is a natural born citizen. | Congress.gov | Library of Congress

                    Steve
                    You're entitled!
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                  • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
                    Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

                    UH OH!!!!!! CAREFUL!!!!!!! YEAH, people have said for a long time such problems have occurred. At least at one point, bush was talking about changes that must take place. Obama said the SAME(even though 6+ years LATER he claimed he heard about it on the NEWS recently!!!!! )! But YOU can't say anything abut this! You know why? It is the GOVERNMENT you say is so great! It is SINGLE PAYER that you say is SO great! And NOW after fighting half the country, you admit WE WERE RIGHT!?!?!?

                    OH MAN!



                    YEP, but they WEREN'T!



                    NAME ONE that wasn't real! Even ONE!



                    THAT is why we have something called the GOVERNMENT! Say what you want about the president but 90% of his job is supposed to be asking, suggesting, and approving. NOTE! VETTING and the like aren't in that list. WHY? Because it is IMPOSSIBLE! THAT is why you have many THOUSANDS of people to debrief, investigate, research. And that is just for the MILITARY! They do NOT care about the IRS, or obamas handicap, or obamas vacations, or elections, etc.... There are MANY others to investigate the IRS.



                    YEAH, they were told 100s of years ago. SO WHAT? They didn't know about THIS, and didn't approve it.



                    You DON'T use your last drop of water to power a drill for a well. There IS a LIMIT!



                    SUPPOSEDLY, on the bergdahl thing, he only informed reid. NORMALLY, one might think that is enough, but reid would do NOTHING to interfere, so he wouldn't breath a word. OBAMA might as well have written it on a letter, addressed it to all of congress, sealed it in an envelope, and set it ablaze!



                    You REALLY think ANY republican thinks they could change your minds? And WHY would anyone try to stop a good thing for all? People just don't like one sided things when THEY are the only ones giving. HEY, if you want to go elsewhere and do all I outlined, GREAT! I am sure NO republican would stop you. If all you say is true, and all I say is false, it would be a PARADISE! IMAGINE! Drinks flowing from every crevice, NO wars, NO weapons, you can take ANY drugs you wish, FREE healthcare, HIGH minimum wage, NOBODY would have to work, Democrats would win 100% of the time, etc....



                    BTW you DO know that birtherism, in the 2007-current era started with MCCAIN, RIGHT?

                    John McCain's Presidential Eligibility

                    S.Res.511 - 110th Congress (2007-2008): A resolution recognizing that John Sidney McCain, III, is a natural born citizen. | Congress.gov | Library of Congress

                    Steve

                    I just thought of this...

                    Speaking of a military situation I remember when I accused you of being the type of person that would leave a combat buddy behind - even if you didn't have to... and your reply was something like...

                    so the f what.

                    And now you're going on and on about throwing the book at this guy, as a matter of fact you want him to be left behind but your stellar judgement has been overruled.

                    Do you want him to get the firing squad as soon as he returns or can we at least have an inquiry first?
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                    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
                      Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

                      so the f what.
                      I don't talk as you implied. So, though clearly out of context, that doesn't sound right. I WOULD fight for a decent person. I WOULD help out! I WOULD sacrifice. But this bowe bergdahl guy was clearly not decent! And they have had SO many years to check out claims, etc...

                      TRUE STORY! I once RISKED MY LIFE, and BROKE THE LAW, to help a freind move out. It was after church, and so I figured I would take him up on his offer to drive me to his place. After getting there we(I was one of two friends he had here) found out he had NO plans on how to move! I STAYED! He showed us how INCREDIBLY unsafe the building was by rocking back and forth. I DEMANDED that he NEVER do that again, as it could kill both of us, etc... He then said he wanted to show me something. I followed, and he showed me nails in the roof that were pulled out SO much that it was amazing that the roof didn't collapse.

                      I LEFT! I decided to walk the 1-2 miles to my car. I considered our friendship DONE! WHY? He wasn't fully honest, and risked our lives!

                      BTW if you haven't figured it out yet, this was after the northridge earthquake in 1994 and his apartment building was RED TAGGED! That meant it was DANGEROUS, LIKELY TO COLLAPSE, and NOBODY WAS TO ENTER!

                      And now you're going on and on about throwing the book at this guy, as a matter of fact you want him to be left behind but your stellar judgement has been overruled.

                      Do you want him to get the firing squad as soon as he returns or can we at least have an inquiry first?
                      NOPE, go ahead and have the inquiry. ME? I would have been more open about the hostage request, EVEN if the person all view as a traitor had his life threatened. It doesn't make any sense, that it was threatened, though! If they killed him, I would just let the taliban know that their future treatment will be affected accordingly. I wouldn't have bothered sending over those generals in any case.

                      I would ALSO keep bowe in Guantanamo. HEY, he supposedly doesn't speak english, and is comfortable with them. I wouldn't want t shock him by sending him HERE. . After he learns English, gives us the same kind of help he gave them(Like their position, names, methods, needs, suppliers, etc....), and recants, we could consider letting him go to the US.

                      Steve
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                      • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
                        Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

                        I don't talk as you implied. So, though clearly out of context, that doesn't sound right. I WOULD fight for a decent person. I WOULD help out! I WOULD sacrifice. But this bowe bergdahl guy was clearly not decent! And they have had SO many years to check out claims, etc...

                        TRUE STORY! I once RISKED MY LIFE, and BROKE THE LAW, to help a freind move out. It was after church, and so I figured I would take him up on his offer to drive me to his place. After getting there we(I was one of two friends he had here) found out he had NO plans on how to move! I STAYED! He showed us how INCREDIBLY unsafe the building was by rocking back and forth. I DEMANDED that he NEVER do that again, as it could kill both of us, etc... He then said he wanted to show me something. I followed, and he showed me nails in the roof that were pulled out SO much that it was amazing that the roof didn't collapse.

                        I LEFT! I decided to walk the 1-2 miles to my car. I considered our friendship DONE! WHY? He wasn't fully honest, and risked our lives!

                        BTW if you haven't figured it out yet, this was after the northridge earthquake in 1994 and his apartment building was RED TAGGED! That meant it was DANGEROUS, LIKELY TO COLLAPSE, and NOBODY WAS TO ENTER!



                        NOPE, go ahead and have the inquiry. ME? I would have been more open about the hostage request, EVEN if the person all view as a traitor had his life threatened. It doesn't make any sense, that it was threatened, though! If they killed him, I would just let the taliban know that their future treatment will be affected accordingly. I wouldn't have bothered sending over those generals in any case.





                        I would ALSO keep bowe in Guantanamo.


                        HEY, he supposedly doesn't speak english, and is comfortable with them. I wouldn't want t shock him by sending him HERE. . After he learns English, gives us the same kind of help he gave them(Like their position, names, methods, needs, suppliers, etc....), and recants, we could consider letting him go to the US.

                        Steve
                        If you say so to all of the above.


                        Guantanamo???????????????????
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          • Profile picture of the author MikeAmbrosio
            Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

            And if the President said "There are limits to what I'll do to bring back a soldier"...he would have been crucified for that.
            To be fair (in response to those who think it's only THIS president getting criticized) ANY president would be criticized. The only difference is those on one side of this argument would change their viewpoint if the prez was from the opposite party.

            We have way too many pots pointing at way too many kettles
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            • Profile picture of the author garyv
              Originally Posted by MikeAmbrosio View Post

              To be fair (in response to those who think it's only THIS president getting criticized) ANY president would be criticized. The only difference is those on one side of this argument would change their viewpoint if the prez was from the opposite party.

              We have way too many pots pointing at way too many kettles

              That's probably true - So if you know you're going to get negative feedback no matter what you do, then it's probably best to go ahead and do what's best for the country. This deal was good for no one - but those whom wish to do us harm.
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              • Profile picture of the author MikeAmbrosio
                Originally Posted by garyv View Post

                That's probably true - So if you know you're going to get negative feedback no matter what you do, then it's probably best to go ahead and do what's best for the country. This deal was good for no one - but those whom wish to do us harm.
                Well, you may be right but my comment was geared more towards the debate here than anything. As pointed out by Thom, it's funny how the viewpoints and opinions change when both parties do the exact same thing. I've seen it too many times on this forum - heck, have even been guilty of it myself
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                • Profile picture of the author garyv
                  Originally Posted by MikeAmbrosio View Post

                  Well, you may be right but my comment was geared more towards the debate here than anything. As pointed out by Thom, it's funny how the viewpoints and opinions change when both parties do the exact same thing. I've seen it too many times on this forum - heck, have even been guilty of it myself
                  I'll admit to it. Although I'm happy to point out idiotic actions on the Republican side, which by the way are happening at an increasing rate lately.
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            • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
              Originally Posted by MikeAmbrosio View Post

              To be fair (in response to those who think it's only THIS president getting criticized) ANY president would be criticized.

              The only difference is those on one side of this argument would change their viewpoint if the prez was from the opposite party.

              We have way too many pots pointing at way too many kettles
              It sounds good but history has proven that your statement is not entirely true - to say the least.

              - When Reagan got 240 marines blown up in the mid-east and then cut and ran, dems didn't try to hold it over the his head.

              (then we quickly invaded the tiny nation of Grenada to distract attention)

              - When 9-11 happened dems didn't try to hold it over the admins head and could have used it as a serious weak on national security sledgehammer against republicans from then on.

              - VP Cheney even had the nerve to say that if a dem is elected in 2004 we might get hit again.

              So we both know what would have happened if those tragedies would have happened if a dem had been POTUS at the time.


              History states...

              No one can scandal monger like the folks on the right.
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              • Profile picture of the author SteveJohnson
                Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

                History states...

                No one can scandal monger like the folks on the right.
                I haven't laughed so hard since I heard, "If you like your plan, you can keep your plan."

                The Emperor has no clothes, but you really believe that he does, I think. How sad.
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                • Profile picture of the author MikeAmbrosio
                  Originally Posted by SteveJohnson View Post

                  I haven't laughed so hard since I heard, "If you like your plan, you can keep your plan."

                  The Emperor has no clothes, but you really believe that he does, I think. How sad.
                  Well I think he meant "In the history of liberal media..." - then it makes more sense
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              • Profile picture of the author garyv
                Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

                It sounds good but history has proven that your statement is not entirely true - to say the least.

                - When Reagan got 240 marines blown up in the mid-east and then cut and ran, dems didn't try to hold it over the his head.

                (then we quickly invaded the tiny nation of Grenada to distract attention)

                - When 9-11 happened dems didn't try to hold it over the admins head and could have used it as a serious weak on national security sledgehammer against republicans from then on.
                You're joking about that right? LOL The Dems are still trying to blame Reagan and Bush for those things. - Let's not forget that the 9-11 terrorists entered this country when Clinton was president, and busy staining interns' dresses.
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      • Profile picture of the author garyv
        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post




        Completely reasonable. And it needs "salvaging" otherwise we are all doomed. And there would be no repercussions, after killing 5 prisoners we just released. A drone strike would be seen as "Boys being boys", and laughed off by the rest of the world..

        This Forum should be used as a government resource for ideas on how to take care on these problems.
        I'm sure killing 5 known murderers using a drone would not look nearly as bad as droning a Wedding.
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      • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

        This Forum should be used as a government resource for ideas on how to take care on these problems.
        Yep. I think the off topic section should be a Think Tank. What should we call it? Hmm. Maybe the Institute for Off The Cuff Ad-Lib National and International Policy, and Don't Forget The Conspiracy Theories Also, Studies.
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        • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
          Originally Posted by MikeAmbrosio View Post

          Well, you may be right but my comment was geared more towards the debate here than anything. As pointed out by Thom, it's funny how the viewpoints and opinions change when both parties do the exact same thing. I've seen it too many times on this forum - heck, have even been guilty of it myself
          If you mean "sad funny" I agree.
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          • Profile picture of the author MikeAmbrosio
            Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post

            If you mean "sad funny" I agree.
            Yup, that's what I meant

            And the snarkiness has been getting thicker lately...
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        • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
          Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

          Yep. I think the off topic section should be a Think Tank. What should we call it? Hmm. Maybe the Institute for Off The Cuff Ad-Lib National and International Policy, and Don't Forget The Conspiracy Theories Also, Studies.

          With most of the brainstorming coming from non other than that bastion of birtherism, world net daily - which is one of Gary's favorite sites.
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        • Profile picture of the author MikeAmbrosio
          Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

          The only background of the prisoner that matters in this case is that he is an American. If he deserted he can be dealt with when he is home. He he aided the enemy he can also be dealt with at home.
          I could be mistaken, but I think part of the question here is whether he was even a prisoner. That seems to be a debate. If he deserted to the other side, then how could he be a prisoner?

          Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

          Yep. I think the off topic section should be a Think Tank. What should we call it? Hmm. Maybe the Institute for Off The Cuff Ad-Lib National and International Policy, and Don't Forget The Conspiracy Theories Also, Studies.
          Wouldn't do any good. You'd still have members who are polar opposites in beliefs and would never agree on anything. Just like it is normally
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          • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
            Originally Posted by MikeAmbrosio View Post

            I could be mistaken, but I think part of the question here is whether he was even a prisoner. That seems to be a debate. If he deserted to the other side, then how could he be a prisoner?
            I really haven't seen any reasonable debate about whether he was a prisoner or not. Being a deserter and then a prisoner is very possible and not mutually exclusive. Surely you can see how that could of easily happened in this case.
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            • Profile picture of the author MikeAmbrosio
              Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

              I really haven't seen any reasonable debate about whether he was a prisoner or not. Being a deserter and then a prisoner is very possible and not mutually exclusive. Surely you can see how that could of easily happened in this case.
              I agree with you that I haven't seen any reasonable debate yet either, which is interesting in and of itself.

              I agree also that he could have been both a deserter and a prisoner, but in the videos I HAVE seen, well, if he was a prisoner, he certainly appeared to have been well treated over those five years.

              Time will tell.
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              • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
                Originally Posted by MikeAmbrosio View Post

                I agree with you that I haven't seen any reasonable debate yet either, which is interesting in and of itself.

                I agree also that he could have been both a deserter and a prisoner, but in the videos I HAVE seen, well, if he was a prisoner, he certainly appeared to have been well treated over those five years.

                Time will tell.
                Exactly what Marcus Luttrell wonders:

                What Caught Lone Survivor Marcus Luttrell ‘Off-Guard’ in Bergdahl Prisoner Exchange? | TheBlaze.com

                ------
                My addition here, I've read that he may have been drugged in the videos where he
                looks very unhealthy. Taliban supplied videos?

                I want to know - and we never will - ALL the deals that were made surrounding
                this one. Maybe for the greater good and maybe not. Always the unintended
                consequences, too.
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            • Profile picture of the author seasoned
              Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

              I really haven't seen any reasonable debate about whether he was a prisoner or not. Being a deserter and then a prisoner is very possible and not mutually exclusive. Surely you can see how that could of easily happened in this case.
              I haven't seen any evidence that he was a prisoner. He apparently looked for them, and he FOUND them!
              Apparently he now reads and speaks their language fluently and follows their religion, etc...

              But the big question a lot of conservatives have asked is NOT if he was a prisoner. It was if he is a prisoner of WAR, and if the others are. The ADMIN is claiming the people at Guantanamo are POWs! Many are saying they are Illegal enemy combatants! They are not POWs as they are not prisoners of a war with recognized state sanctioned combatants.

              They are ALSO saying that this means the geneva convention does NOT apply. HEY, the enemy won't treat americans as well. The NAZIs, by contrast, apparently DID generally honor the geneva convention.
              AGAIN though, that was JUST for POWs!

              Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author garyv
    Let's make this a closer comparison. Do you think the Admin would have entertained a negotiation that involved shooting a random little girl on the street in return for this soldier?
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    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      Originally Posted by garyv View Post

      Let's make this a closer comparison. Do you think the Admin would have entertained a negotiation that involved shooting a random little girl on the street in return for this soldier?
      Much better. Killing a little girl in exchange for a prisoner...is much closer to reality.
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      • Profile picture of the author garyv
        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

        Much better. Killing a little girl in exchange for a prisoner...is much closer to reality.
        That's true - just one little girl is not being fair. Considering that these men are documented killing more innocent people than that, and history has already proven that nearly 30% of those let go from Guantanamo have returned to battle.
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  • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
    I wouldn't be surprised if a bunch of out of state idiots - with guns were planning to show up at his welcome home celebration.
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    • Profile picture of the author garyv
      Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

      I wouldn't be surprised if a bunch of out of state idiots - with guns were planning to show up at his welcome home celebration.

      Not sure who would have shown up, but wouldn't you be a bit upset if you were a relative of one of those killed looking for this deserter?
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      • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
        Originally Posted by garyv View Post

        Not sure who would have shown up, but wouldn't you be a bit upset if you were a relative of one of those killed looking for this deserter?

        Are you absolutely sure that is what happened?

        If so, would you stake your life on it?
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        • Profile picture of the author garyv
          Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

          Are you absolutely sure that is what happened?

          If so, would you stake your life on it?

          Are you absolutely sure that isn't what happened? And if so are you willing to stake other people's lives on it?
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          • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
            Originally Posted by garyv View Post

            Are you absolutely sure that isn't what happened? And if so are you willing to stake other people's lives on it?
            One thing is clear, lives were put in danger because soldiers went out looking for him.

            But...


            Is there anyone, anywhere in any position who could tell you that no lives were lost looking for the soldier that you'd believe?
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            • Profile picture of the author seasoned
              Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

              One thing is clear, lives were put in danger because soldiers went out looking for him.

              But...


              Is there anyone, anywhere in any position who could tell you that no lives were lost looking for the soldier that you'd believe?
              I've taken personal risks to recover things of value to me. I have NEVER done so for things that had NO value. I was on one contract and, having been there about 4 years, had more than I could easily move. Perhaps $1000 worth of stuff and I literally gave it to the people at the front desk. WHY? Because it was more trouble than it was worth to transport.

              Steve
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          • Profile picture of the author ThomM
            By the way, there is good evidence that the Taliban offered to put Bin Laden to trial before 9-11 if the US would have dropped sanctions but the Bush admin turned it down. Ari Fleicher, the Bush press sec, was even asked about this in a Feb 2001 press briefing.
            I don't think so Tim.
            Following a public condemnation of the Saudi monarchy for allowing U.S. troops to enter and operate in Saudi Arabia, Osama Bin Laden moved to Sudan and eventually, in 1996, to Afghanistan, where he had fought against the Soviet troops and where he was warmly welcomed by the Taliban and its top leader, Mullah Mohammed Omar. As the Afghan Taliban had allowed Bin Laden to recruit militants and run training camps, the United Nations Security Council passed two resolutions UNSCR 1267 (1999) and 1333 (2000), asking the Taliban to cease its support for terrorism and hand over Bin Laden. The Taliban took no action to end Bin Laden's training activities and recruitment of militants and displayed no positive response to the Security Council resolutions. After the bombings of the U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania in 1998 and the attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon in 2001, the United States asked the Taliban to turn over Bin Laden. The Taliban refused to hand over Bin Laden and ignored the U.S. demands, and the United States, in response, bombed Taliban's strategic military sites in Afghanistan. Consequently, the Taliban lost control over the Afghan Capital, Kabul, and was completely routed in December 9, 2001History of the Taliban
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    • Profile picture of the author ThomM
      Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

      I wouldn't be surprised if a bunch of out of state idiots - with guns were planning to show up at his welcome home celebration.
      And I wouldn't be surprised if this was a republican president you would be outraged over the trade.
      Funny how you guys get outraged when a republican does something and find it totally acceptable when a democrat does the same thing. Talk about being married to a party, lol.
      Same can be said in reverse also.
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  • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
    Obama Has ‘No Apologies’ for Exchange to Free Bergdahl:


    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-0...-bergdahl.html
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    • Profile picture of the author Dan Riffle
      Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

      Obama Has 'No Apologies' for Exchange to Free Bergdahl:


      Obama Has
      Of course he has no apologies. He's never made a mistake in his life. Just ask him.
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      • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
        Originally Posted by Dan Riffle View Post

        Of course he has no apologies. He's never made a mistake in his life. Just ask him.
        That's a silly response.

        He has often said that he's made mistakes while in office - unlike his predecessor.

        He simply does not have any apologies for the actions that lead to the release of the last American POW in Afghanistan.
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        • Profile picture of the author Dan Riffle
          Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

          That's a silly response.

          He has often said that he's made mistakes while in office - unlike his predecessor.

          He simply does not have any apologies for the actions that lead to the release of the last American POW in Afghanistan.
          Yep, so silly Slate even commented on it:

          Obama’s mistakes: Why the president won’t acknowledge his 2013 errors.
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          • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
            Originally Posted by Dan Riffle View Post

            And the article also said this...

            "What’s tantalizing and frustrating about Obama is that he certainly appears to know that he made mistakes, he just doesn’t want to tell us, or tell us what he learned from them.

            Obama has added more staff recently in apparent recognition that he has problems, but he won’t let us in on the thinking behind the moves."

            I say...

            ... it seems like the author is frustrated because he hasn't had a one on one and been able to grill the POTUS and any POTUS is always a hot topic.

            Is any POTUS required to explain everything to the public?

            I also like how the article zeros in on 2013.

            Still IMHO the article is quite silly.
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            • Profile picture of the author seasoned
              Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

              And the article also said this...

              "What's tantalizing and frustrating about Obama is that he certainly appears to know that he made mistakes, he just doesn't want to tell us, or tell us what he learned from them.

              Obama has added more staff recently in apparent recognition that he has problems, but he won't let us in on the thinking behind the moves."

              I say...

              ... it seems like the author is frustrated because he hasn't had a one on one and been able to grill the POTUS and any POTUS is always a hot topic.

              Is any POTUS required to explain everything to the public?
              If there is a disaster, or he doesn't react properly, or it is off the wall, *************YES***********!!!!!!!!!!!!

              YOU demanded that BUSH DID!

              I also like how the article zeros in on 2013.
              DON'T YOU KNOW? 2014 is still happening! A lot of people were wearing special glasses that blinded them to what was going on. As I predicted a few years ago, THEY BROKE!!!!!!! MORE AND MORE people on YOUR side are starting to speak up. This only really started to take off in 2013 as I recall. BTW the next president will have to deal with the first OC audit! They will basically audit all the insurance companies that are on the exchange or want to be. What will happen THEN!?

              But YEAH! It WOULD have been nice if they openly spoke up about

              2005
              2006
              2007
              2008
              2009
              2010
              2011
              and 2012 as well!

              I WOULD mention 1997-2004, but that is only local, and I haven't heard how THAT was. I DID hear HOW he got elected though. Why do so few talk about THAT? In a very real way, the SAME thing happened 2008. Something VERY similar happened in 2012!

              Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
    Has anyone seen Steve Johnson?

    I'd love to hear what he has to say regarding the man from his great state of Idaho.
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    • Profile picture of the author SteveJohnson
      Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

      Has anyone seen Steve Johnson?

      I'd love to hear what he has to say regarding the man from his great state of Idaho.
      I don't have anything to say, yet. There's too much noise to discern what is accurate and what isn't.

      I think releasing 5 Talibani in exchange for an American POW was a mistake.

      I think it was done because Obama was looking for another "Look, I killed bin Laden!" moment to overshadow the VA scandal, the IRS scandal, the cover up of Benghazi, etc. I think he and his advisers made a tremendous miscalculation on how people would react - with the exception of his erstwhile and loyal apologists who believe that his &h*T doesn't stink, ever.

      If Bergdahl is proven to have done what is being said that he did, he should suffer the same fate as Eddie Slovik, who was executed for having done far less.
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      • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
        Originally Posted by SteveJohnson View Post

        I don't have anything to say, yet. There's too much noise to discern what is accurate and what isn't.

        I think releasing 5 Talibani in exchange for an American POW was a mistake.

        I think it was done because Obama was looking for another "Look, I killed bin Laden!" moment to overshadow the VA scandal, the IRS scandal, the cover up of Benghazi, etc. I think he and his advisers made a tremendous miscalculation on how people would react - with the exception of his erstwhile and loyal apologists who believe that his &h*T doesn't stink, ever.

        If Bergdahl is proven to have done what is being said that he did, he should suffer the same fate as Eddie Slovik, who was executed for having done far less.

        I'm out of thanks so thanks for your insight.
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  • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
    uguiiiiiiiiiiiiiuuuuugggiguiffffffffffffff7y
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  • Profile picture of the author garyv
    This is an honest question - What would be the motive for his fellow soldiers, those who worked with him, to label him as a deserter if he wasn't?
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