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The end of football as a national passion?

by Kay King
21 replies
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Lawsuits - negotiations - seeking damages and medical care for old football players who suffered concussions....and of course almost all football players suffer concussions, don't they?

Dan Marino joins concussion lawsuit against the NFL

The suit above is odd - as Marino never claimed to have a concussion but is suing?

I just heard a sports attorney say "we want the game to be safe".

How can a game be safe when the entire game focuses on very large men with highly developed muscles throwing each other to the ground?

Is he proposing touch football? The only way to make football as we know it in the US "safe" is to change the game completely so no one runs into anyone else. Do you think fans will show up for that?

I always thought that's one reason sports figures earned such big bucks for playing a game....because of the physical risk involved.


Why not establish a huge fund to pay medical costs and 'damages' - which is what the players want? Fund part of it with a percentage of player's salaries. For each player signed the management would have to pay a percentage of the salary into a fund - and the player would have to do the same.

I'm not a football fan so maybe I don't get it. I know people who have pain from tendonitis, carpal tunnel, neck problems - all caused by the physical motions required of the job they did for years. Their surgery and care is covered by insurance or by them - or they go on disability payments if necessary.

Why should high paid football players get more? If it's true teams lied about shots or meds given, that's one thing and should be addressed and perhaps payments made. If it's that players didn't know they might have long term injuries from playing a violent sport....that's not logical to me.
  • Profile picture of the author MikeAmbrosio
    Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

    Lawsuits - negotiations - seeking damages and medical care for old football players who suffered concussions....and of course almost all football players suffer concussions, don't they?

    Dan Marino joins concussion lawsuit against the NFL

    The suit above is odd - as Marino never claimed to have a concussion but is suing?

    I just heard a sports attorney say "we want the game to be safe".

    How can a game be safe when the entire game focuses on very large men with highly developed muscles throwing each other to the ground?

    Is he proposing touch football? The only way to make football as we know it in the US "safe" is to change the game completely so no one runs into anyone else. Do you think fans will show up for that?

    I always thought that's one reason sports figures earned such big bucks for playing a game....because of the physical risk involved.


    Why not establish a huge fund to pay medical costs and 'damages' - which is what the players want? Fund part of it with a percentage of player's salaries. For each player signed the management would have to pay a percentage of the salary into a fund - and the player would have to do the same.

    I'm not a football fan so maybe I don't get it. I know people who have pain from tendonitis, carpal tunnel, neck problems - all caused by the physical motions required of the job they did for years. Their surgery and care is covered by insurance or by them - or they go on disability payments if necessary.

    Why should high paid football players get more? If it's true teams lied about shots or meds given, that's one thing and should be addressed and perhaps payments made. If it's that players didn't know they might have long term injuries from playing a violent sport....that's not logical to me.
    Especially since most professional players have been playing since PeeWee days. How could any not know the risks?
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  • Profile picture of the author Dan Riffle
    I read an article a few years ago by a brain surgeon who theorized that, if you wanted to drastically reduce brain injuries in football, all the NFL has to do is eliminate helmets altogether.

    It sounded ridiculous, but he made several very good points. One being that players wouldn't throw themselves around with reckless abandon if they weren't wearing helmets. Of course, accidents would still happen, but he theorized that frequency would decrease. He had other points, but I don't remember them (probably due to my own brain damage...)

    Unfortunately, I couldn't find the article to link to.

    Added later: I just remembered a second point: The surgeon stated that helmets themselves add to the risk of brain injury because the weight of the helmets creates a snapping motion when the body is jarred which increases the force of impact.
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    • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
      Originally Posted by Dan Riffle View Post

      I read an article a few years ago by a brain surgeon who theorized that, if you wanted to drastically reduce brain injuries in football, all the NFL has to do is eliminate helmets altogether.

      It sounded ridiculous, but he made several very good points. One being that players wouldn't throw themselves around with reckless abandon if they weren't wearing helmets. Of course, accidents would still happen, but he theorized that frequency would decrease. He had other points, but I don't remember them (probably due to my own brain damage...)

      Unfortunately, I couldn't find the article to link to.
      Dan was just fired from CBS's sunday morning tv show and maybe the NFL could not find room for him on their network and... ( I'm just speculating )

      Yea, if helmets were eliminated the tackles would be more like rugby tackles.
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      • Profile picture of the author Kay King
        That makes a lot of sense. Probably applies to a lot of things we do these days. When we have too many 'protections' we not only act irresponsibly but we expect someone else to make it right if the protection fails.

        The game might be more fun as you'd get a little blood once in a while and the crowds love that...

        I'm surprised the football public isn't outraged over these demands but the fans I know are all for players getting everything they want. Weird.
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    • Profile picture of the author Frank Donovan
      Originally Posted by Dan Riffle View Post

      I read an article a few years ago by a brain surgeon who theorized that, if you wanted to drastically reduce brain injuries in football, all the NFL has to do is eliminate helmets altogether.

      It sounded ridiculous, but he made several very good points. One being that players wouldn't throw themselves around with reckless abandon if they weren't wearing helmets. Of course, accidents would still happen, but he theorized that frequency would decrease. He had other points, but I don't remember them (probably due to my own brain damage...)

      Unfortunately, I couldn't find the article to link to.

      Added later: I just remembered a second point: The surgeon stated that helmets themselves add to the risk of brain injury because the weight of the helmets creates a snapping motion when the body is jarred which increases the force of impact.
      The type of long-term concussion associated with players in sports such as boxing, football and soccer is usually the result of a series of violent movements of the brain within the skull. Crash helmets may save your life or prevent serious injury in a motorcycle accident, but those kind of impacts are less common in sport.

      In fact, it could be argued that helmets in football encourage precisely the sort of "butting" that might contribute to eventual long-term concussion. Certainly, many medical experts doubt the effectiveness of helmets used in boxing training, simply because they don't stop the head from being violently jerked back on each contact with a glove.

      In the UK recently, it's been disclosed that an ex-professional soccer player who died at the age of 59 with what was thought to be Alzheimer's, did in fact die from a form of concussion (CTE) caused by years of "heading" a football - one of the basic requirements of a soccer player.

      BBC News - Jeff Astle: West Brom legend 'killed by boxing brain condition'


      Frank
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    • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
      Originally Posted by Dan Riffle View Post

      Added later: I just remembered a second point: The surgeon stated that helmets themselves add to the risk of brain injury because the weight of the helmets creates a snapping motion when the body is jarred which increases the force of impact.
      I've thought for years that football should go to soft helmets. That would help protect their head from severe blows, and make it less likely the player would use the helmet as a weapon. And if it was used as a weapon, without the hard shell it would be a far less dangerous weapon.
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      • Profile picture of the author Kurt
        Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post

        I've thought for years that football should go to soft helmets. That would help protect their head from severe blows, and make it less likely the player would use the helmet as a weapon. And if it was used as a weapon, without the hard shell it would be a far less dangerous weapon.
        Soft helmets cause more surface area to be in contact, which causes them to grip, which in turn will cause more neck and spinal injuries. Hard helmets slide and don't grip...
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        • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
          Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

          Soft helmets cause more surface area to be in contact, which causes them to grip, which in turn will cause more neck and spinal injuries. Hard helmets slide and don't grip...
          That's a legitimate point, but wouldn't that depend on what they were made of? Teflon coating or something along those lines I would think would be better than a hard, unyielding surface. I would think the idea would be worth researching.

          While not directly comparable, it would still be interesting to know how neck and head injuries compare between the modern era and the days of leather helmets.
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  • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
    Dan Marino to withdraw concussion lawsuit against NFL - Sun Sentinel
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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    The ironic thing is that it seems they have done this BEFORE! I mean they obviously knew,or figured out, that it was dangerous, and so they wore protection. Later MORE! And now MUCH MUCH MORE! Try comparing todays footbal players to like 84 years ago!

    Of course, I don't know HOW it could get any better outside of improvements that should have been there decades ago.

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  • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
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    Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

    If it's that players didn't know they might have long term injuries from playing a violent sport....that's not logical to me.
    Indeed. Volenti non fit iniuria, as the saying goes.
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  • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
    After losing a recent big money lawsuit (which I believe the judge said wasn't enough), I believe the NFL is trying to be as safe as possible.

    - No chop blocks while a defender is being blocked up high - but almost anything can happen in that 3 yard box from tackle to tackle and on both sides of the line of scrimmage.

    - No crackback blocks

    - No hitting the QB above the shoulders

    - No hitting the QB below the knees - even if the defender has been knocked down

    - No spearing with helmet

    - No closeline tackles

    - No facemask

    - No horse collar tackles

    - No "lighting up" defenseless receivers

    - No wedge of more than 2 people on kickoffs

    - Runners can not lower their heads in the open field

    - If player's bell has been rung, extra care is taken before he goes back into a game and/or returns to action in upcoming games.

    - I'm not sure if pass defenders can submarine a high jumping pass receiver anymore

    Other than discovering a way to prevent head injuries - with new technology IMHO, the NFL has done about all it can do to make the game as safe as possible.
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    • Profile picture of the author Kurt
      Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

      After losing a recent big money lawsuit (which I believe the judge said wasn't enough), I believe the NFL is trying to be as safe as possible.

      - No chop blocks while a defender is being blocked up high - but almost anything can happen in that 3 yard box from tackle to tackle and on both sides of the line of scrimmage.

      - No crackback blocks

      - No hitting the QB above the shoulders

      - No hitting the QB below the knees - even if the defender has been knocked down

      - No spearing with helmet

      - No closeline tackles

      - No facemask

      - No horse collar tackles

      - No "lighting up" defenseless receivers

      - No wedge of more than 2 people on kickoffs

      - Runners can not lower their heads in the open field

      - If player's bell has been rung, extra care is taken before he goes back into a game and/or returns to action in upcoming games.

      - I'm not sure if pass defenders can submarine a high jumping pass receiver anymore

      Other than discovering a way to prevent head injuries - with new technology IMHO, the NFL has done about all it can do to make the game as safe as possible.
      In addition, the NFL moved the kickoff 5 yards forward to try to prevent more runbacks, as kickoff returns have a high percentage of concussions.
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  • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
    I agree, TL. You can't make it too tame or it will lose it's appeal. I think they could do a lot more research and testing on helmet technology though. It's going to be interesting to see what happens in the college ranks as well.
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    • Profile picture of the author Kurt
      Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post

      That's a legitimate point, but wouldn't that depend on what they were made of? Teflon coating or something along those lines I would think would be better than a hard, unyielding surface. I would think the idea would be worth researching.

      While not directly comparable, it would still be interesting to know how neck and head injuries compare between the modern era and the days of leather helmets.
      Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post

      I agree, TL. You can't make it too tame or it will lose it's appeal. I think they could do a lot more research and testing on helmet technology though. It's going to be interesting to see what happens in the college ranks as well.
      "They've" done, and are doing, tons and tons of research on helmets, ever since at least the 1960s. There simply isn't an easy solution and soft helmets isn't something they haven't thought about and tested long ago.

      One effective strategy is teaching proper tackling technique where players keep their heads up.
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      • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
        Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

        There simply isn't an easy solution and soft helmets isn't something they haven't thought about and tested long ago.
        That's why they need to keep doing the research. A breakthrough in technology, or a revolutionary idea, or simply a different approach to an old problem could change the picture at any time.
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        • Profile picture of the author Kay King
          Ok, Ok - how about adding another element to the game.

          Industrial strength velcro on the helmets....
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  • Profile picture of the author lcombs
    The problem is, todays players are so big and strong.

    Jerry Kramer, the Right Guard for the Packers who made the famous block that scored Bart Starr in the closing seconds of the "Ice Bowl", the '67 Championship Game against Dallas, was 6' 3", 245 lbs.

    Todays linemen are 100 pounda heavier and have a much more vigorous strength training program.

    Being hit by a 350 lb. man who can dead lift 300 lbs. +....... It's amazing players aren't dieing.
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  • Profile picture of the author Floyd Fisher
    CTE is now being linked to heading soccer balls?

    Somehow, I get the feeling we will be soon wrapping our heads in bubble wrap.
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  • Profile picture of the author repthareal
    This is a radical idea, but no shoulder pads and a soft helmet. Nah on second thought that doesn't sound like it would work.
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