The U.S. Government Crackdown On Offshore Tax Dodging Just Got Real:

10 years ago

Minimal I would think. Most Americans pay the taxes that are due. Current laws allow for the reduction of taxes in certain circumstances.

I, like many people, take advantage of reduced taxes when the circumstances allow.

Joe Mobley

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

I wonder what effect it'll have on U.S. tax receipts?

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Patrician

10 years ago

It's about time - 'off-shore' banking is rampant - particularly for businesses -

Of course the usual bureaucratic fumbling and BS will water down the efficacy of this - but even as a token it is a step in the right direction.

They need to stop rewarding people for Un-American activity where they benefit from ripping off the country and the taxpayers by doing 'business' off-shore. There should also be some kind of a duty tax for moving industries off-shore so that they can undercut us on several levels - whether it is for labor costs or prices for goods.

I wish I could remember the whole story but I read years ago where there are buildings in the Bahamas that are entirely for the purpose of having an address there to claim you have a business. Yeah, right - huge corporations really have one room offices in ramshackle third world malls.

Tax evasion should be treated more as the criminal offense that it is - not just that they owe the money and the IRS will attach their wages or profits - but they should go to jail like any other thief.

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Joe Mobley

10 years ago

Are we talking tax evasion or tax avoidance?

Joe Mobley

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Alexa Smith

Banned 10 years ago

Originally Posted by Joe Mobley

Are we talking tax evasion or tax avoidance?

And that is the big question.

Over here, this is a huge question, that's been all over the media for the last year or so.

Amazon make sales worth hundreds of millions of pounds in this country, but legally channel them through a European subsidiary (Luxembourg, or Netherlands? I can't remember, now) to avoid UK corporate taxes.

Google do something very similar (their UK sales go through Eire, where they negotiated a low rate of corporate taxes).

Starbucks, also, have been all over the news here for much the same thing (and that's a real shame for all the small businesses here who own and run a little Starbuck's franchise, because public opinion tars them inappropriately with the same brush, and some of them - not involved in tax evasion or avoidance at all - have even been going out of business because of it).

I suspect that quite apart from the potential for governments to raise billions through chasing offshore tax-dodgers, it's good publicity for them to be seen to be doing so. It makes people look less at the end-of-year bonuses paid at Goldman Sachs.

The reality is that most of "what goes on" (regarding the mega-corporations and their billions in tax-avoidance) is perfectly legal, and can be "rectified" (if indeed that's the right word at all) only by international consensus and action.

If you tax people too much, they leave the country. Individuals and businesses. The reality is that it's much easier for international corporations to do so than it is for anyone else: they can do it "just with creative accounting" and often without breaking any laws at all. What's been happening over here, to some extent (not a huge extent) is that the public is getting incensed, and people are starting to "vote with their feet" against some of these corporations, as the saying goes.

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Joe Mobley

10 years ago

And now for the Ms. Smith keyword study of the day:

avoid = Legally reduce taxes.
legal, legally = To operate within existing laws.

Originally Posted by Alexa Smith

Amazon make sales worth hundreds of millions of pounds in this country, but legally channel them through a European subsidiary (Luxembourg, or Netherlands? I can't remember, now) to avoid UK corporate taxes.

The reality is that most of "what goes on" (regarding the mega-corporations and their billions in tax-avoidance) is perfectly legal,

Joe Mobley

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Patrician

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Joe Mobley

And now for the Ms. Smith keyword study of the day:

avoid = Legally reduce taxes.
legal, legally = To operate within existing laws.

Joe Mobley

e·va·sion [ih-vey-zhuhn]
noun
1.an act or instance of escaping, avoiding, or shirking something: evasion of one's duty.
2.the avoiding of an argument, accusation, question, or the like, as by a subterfuge: The old political boss was notorious for his practice of evasion.
3.a means of evading; subterfuge; an excuse or trick to avoid or get around something: Her polite agreement was an evasion concealing what she really felt.
4. physical or mental escape.
5.an act or instance of violating the tax laws by failing or refusing to pay all or part of one's taxes.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/evasion

There is obviously some similar meaning in the words avoid and evade.

However 'evasion' is the one that is illegal and therefore criminal; - 'avoid' is the one that is 'quasi- legal - After all it is not illegal to be Un-American - but there should be a tax or some other way to discourage people from undermining our economy.

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seasoned

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Patrician

e·va·sion [ih-vey-zhuhn]
noun
1.an act or instance of escaping, avoiding, or shirking something: evasion of one's duty.
2.the avoiding of an argument, accusation, question, or the like, as by a subterfuge: The old political boss was notorious for his practice of evasion.
3.a means of evading; subterfuge; an excuse or trick to avoid or get around something: Her polite agreement was an evasion concealing what she really felt.
4. physical or mental escape.
5.an act or instance of violating the tax laws by failing or refusing to pay all or part of one's taxes.
Evasion | Define Evasion at Dictionary.com

There is obviously some similar meaning in the words avoid and evade.

However 'evasion' is the one that is illegal and therefore criminal; - 'avoid' is the one that is 'quasi- legal - After all it is not illegal to be Un-American - but there should be a tax or some other way to discourage people from undermining our economy.

The people that are undermining the economy are the ones that are SQUANDERING the money! AVOIDING is PERFECTLY legal!

Did you NEVER file a W4, NEVER declare anything but sole occupation of a residence with NO dependents, and NEVER file anything but a 1040EZ every year since you made money? EVERYONE here, INCLUDING those saying YES, has AVOIDED taxes, at least if you are in the US! EVERYONE! Those that said NO did something to avoid taxes!

And PLEASE! If you are one of the ones that said YES, get a job, see an accountant, or see a psychiatrist. You'll thank me next 4/15!

Steve

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Joe Mobley

10 years ago

Damn Steve!

Originally Posted by seasoned

Did you NEVER file a W4, NEVER declare anything but sole occupation of a residence with NO dependents, and NEVER file anything but a 1040EZ every year since you made money? EVERYONE here, INCLUDING those saying YES, has AVOIDED taxes, at least if you are in the US! EVERYONE! Those that said NO did something to avoid taxes!

And PLEASE! If you are one of the ones that said YES, get a job, see an accountant, or see a psychiatrist. You'll thank me next 4/15!

Steve

That was awesome.

Joe Mobley

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Patrician

10 years ago

Originally Posted by seasoned

The people that are undermining the economy are the ones that are SQUANDERING the money! AVOIDING is PERFECTLY legal!

Did you NEVER file a W4, NEVER declare anything but sole occupation of a residence with NO dependents, and NEVER file anything but a 1040EZ every year since you made money? EVERYONE here, INCLUDING those saying YES, has AVOIDED taxes, at least if you are in the US! EVERYONE! Those that said NO did something to avoid taxes!

And PLEASE! If you are one of the ones that said YES, get a job, see an accountant, or see a psychiatrist. You'll thank me next 4/15!

Steve

I don't know why you are way on another issue or else why you are defending tax cheaters? Nobody is talking about legitimate deductions for individual citizens or for that matter businesses.

The deal is about money laundering and taking money out of this country to hide it so that you don't pay taxes - and you CHEAT everybody who pays taxes by not paying your share.

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seasoned

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Patrician

I don't know why you are way on another issue or else why you are defending tax cheaters? Nobody is talking about legitimate deductions for individual citizens or for that matter businesses.

The deal is about money laundering and taking money out of this country to hide it so that you don't pay taxes - and you CHEAT everybody who pays taxes by not paying your share.

Well, people got things confused concerning evade and avoid. Deductions and the like at least for the moment are NOT illegal!

I knew a guy once. He is VERY rich! He is also....hmmm OK, he feels DIFFERENTLY from the way I do on a number of issues.

He said that he felt people should pay more taxes, etc... Well, HIS main business was mostly cash. I wasn't surprised, but was surprised that he TOLD me that he didn't report it! THAT is the type of tax cheat I ABHOR! The kind that profits in some way, or wants all to do what he could so easily do better.

Steve

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HeySal

10 years ago

This is quite a double edged sword. If you charge the taxes, how long will it before the companies just load up and move out, taking the jobs with them. It might not be fair that they avoid taxes, but then what's fair about us being taxed just to give the money to a central bank that should be paying us a % for printing our money instead of visa versa?

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RichBeck

10 years ago

Originally Posted by HeySal

This is quite a double edged sword. If you charge the taxes, how long will it before the companies just load up and move out, taking the jobs with them.

HeySal,

In my observations, something similar is happening already....

People come to the US on a "temporary work Visa." They spend very minimally here.... and send the bulk of their paychecks "back home" to their family...

While some of the income and sales taxes are collected here in the US of A, most of the money gets "spent" in foreign countries.... This doesn't help local businesses or the US of A economy in general...

While this is not nearly as bad as losing jobs in the US of A, it still has an impact.

All the Best,

Rich Beck BCIP, MCSD, MCIS

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seasoned

10 years ago

Originally Posted by RichBeck

HeySal,

In my observations, something similar is happening already....

People come to the US on a "temporary work Visa." They spend very minimally here.... and send the bulk of their paychecks "back home" to their family...

While some of the income and sales taxes are collected here in the US of A, most of the money gets "spent" in foreign countries.... This doesn't help local businesses or the US of A economy in general...

While this is not nearly as bad as losing jobs in the US of A, it still has an impact.

All the Best,

Rich Beck BCIP, MCSD, MCIS

You just said that losing a job is not as bad as losing a job!!!!!

Steve

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RichBeck

10 years ago

Originally Posted by RichBeck

HeySal,

In my observations, something similar is happening already....

People come to the US on a "temporary work Visa." They spend very minimally here.... and send the bulk of their paychecks "back home" to their family...

While some of the income and sales taxes are collected here in the US of A, most of the money gets "spent" in foreign countries.... This doesn't help local businesses or the US of A economy in general...

While this is not nearly as bad as losing jobs in the US of A, it still has an impact.

All the Best,

Rich Beck BCIP, MCSD, MCIS

Originally Posted by seasoned

You just said that losing a job is not as bad as losing a job!!!!!

Steve

Steve,

Not exactly.....

To clarify....

A bad situation is having a "non-US citizen" on a "temporary work Visa" in the US of A.

I have seen many of them spend very minimally and send money "home." While income tax and some other taxes are collected, the bulk of this money "leaves" the US economy forever.

The worst situation is to have a US citizen's job moved abroad..... No income tax or sales tax is collected.

Please ask away if this isn't clear now.

All The Best,

Rich Beck BCIP, MCSD, MCIS

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Alexa Smith

Banned 10 years ago

Originally Posted by RichBeck

The worst situation is to have a US citizen's job moved abroad..... No income tax or sales tax is collected.

But a US company, outsourcing some jobs overseas, perhaps becomes profitable instead of losing money, employs other US-based people, pays company taxes, flourishes, creates wealth, and so on? Or would you rather have them go under because they can't afford to pay the US wagebill they'd have to, otherwise? I'm just asking ...

Originally Posted by RichBeck

Please ask away if this isn't clear now.

I did, even though you were talking to Steve.

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RichBeck

10 years ago

Originally Posted by seasoned

You just said that losing a job is not as bad as losing a job!!!!!

Steve

Originally Posted by Alexa Smith

But a US company, outsourcing some jobs overseas, perhaps becomes profitable instead of losing money, employs other US-based people, pays company taxes, flourishes, creates wealth, and so on? Or would you rather have them go under because they can't afford to pay the US wagebill they'd have to, otherwise? I'm just asking ...

I did, even though you were talking to Steve.

Alexa,

I have no control over how these corporate entities function..... They have mastered "tax avoidance" decades ago.

They should pay whatever US tax law mandates.... Again, that is out of my control.

If they cannot "afford" the cost of doing business, that is their problem. I don't believe in "handouts."

All The Best,

Rich Beck BCIP, MCSD, MCIS

Edit: If you are a US Taxpayer, you must watch Inside Job Narrated By Matt Damon, it documents "corporate handouts" at their worst.

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David Maschke

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Alexa Smith

But a US company, outsourcing some jobs overseas, perhaps becomes profitable instead of losing money, employs other US-based people, pays company taxes, flourishes, creates wealth, and so on?

Does anyone else find you really annoying for being right all the time? Because I sure do.

But you are correct again (for now on we'll just assume that)

We asked our CEO's for low prices, high production, high profits and high dividends. And they've delivered.

We asked our politicians for low taxes, high benefit checks, and many government services. And they've delivered.

And we're crying because they've succeeded.

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lanfear63

10 years ago

I have been waiting for this thread to appear. I want some clarification on some points.

I was reading it would also apply to resident card holders too ( Green Card Holders) like me. So, If I go back to my native UK (citizen and passport holder), get a Job and have over 50 k in my UK bank account and pay my salary taxes to the UK government I would also be liable to pay taxes to the IRS?

Whats the deal?

I have heard that a considerable amount of US citizens who are living abroad and have been for years are renouncing their US citizenship because of this. Also banks abroad are telling Americans living there and banking with them that they no longer want their custom due to the fact that America want them to collect and feed back data about US citizens accounts off their own back and the leverage to get them to do this is to threaten them with penalties and fines based on any investments the institution has with the US.

Well this just might blow up in the USA's face. They might say well screw you, your not so rich and high and mighty as you were and living on borrowed money anyway. I'm taking my investments elsewhere, so no one ends up wanting to do business with the US or lend them money. The dollar could lose its status as the currency of choice and the US is screwed.

That's a worst case scenario though but will be watching this very closely over the next few months.

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seasoned

10 years ago

Originally Posted by lanfear63

I have been waiting for this thread to appear. I want some clarification on some points.

I was reading it would also apply to resident card holders too ( Green Card Holders) like me. So, If I go back to my native UK (citizen and passport holder), get a Job and have over 50 k in my UK bank account and pay my salary taxes to the UK government I would also be liable to pay taxes to the IRS?

Whats the deal?

I have heard that a considerable amount of US citizens who are living abroad and have been for years are renouncing their US citizenship because of this. Also banks abroad are telling Americans living there and banking with them that they no longer want their custom due to the fact that America want them to collect and feed back data about US citizens accounts off their own back and the leverage to get them to do this is to threaten them with penalties and fines based on any investments the institution has with the US.

Well this just might blow up in the USA's face. They might say well screw you, your not so rich and high and mighty as you were and living on borrowed money anyway. I'm taking my investments elsewhere, so no one ends up wanting to do business with the US or lend them money. The dollar could lose its status as the currency of choice and the US is screwed.

That's a worst case scenario though but will be watching this very closely over the next few months.

GOOD POINTS, and a few that others have said could be problematic.

Basically, the IRS wants all it can get. If things change, YOU are expected to simply KNOW them! NOBODY actually knows them all, but an auditor might look in the tomes("POLITIFACT" CLAIMS it is only 5500 pages but THEY seem to be admitting to leaving things out! So it could be close to the 70k+. Regulations and decisions DO matter!) and find some thing that could have them audit you for a long time and tax you. And you are presumed GUILTY! You must capitulate, bargain and/or take it to court.

You might want to see a tax attorney or some such to see how you are affected NOW, and what you can do to isolate your accounts in the future. Keep in mind, IT CAN CHANGE!

Steve

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lanfear63

10 years ago

Originally Posted by seasoned

GOOD POINTS, and a few that others have said could be problematic.

Basically, the IRS wants all it can get. If things change, YOU are expected to simply KNOW them! NOBODY actually knows them all, but an auditor might look in the tomes("POLITIFACT" CLAIMS it is only 5500 pages but THEY seem to be admitting to leaving things out! So it could be close to the 70k+. Regulations and decisions DO matter!) and find some thing that could have them audit you for a long time and tax you. And you are presumed GUILTY! You must capitulate, bargain and/or take it to court.

You might want to see a tax attorney or some such to see how you are affected NOW, and what you can do to isolate your accounts in the future. Keep in mind, IT CAN CHANGE!

Steve

Mind you, if it did screw the US I would probably just let my Green Card expire (about a year to run) and stay their. The US going belly up would affect us all big time though! I don't want it to happen. No instability or prosperity downturn is good for any of us.

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Joe Mobley

10 years ago

I am afraid that scenario is unavoidable, in my opinion.

Joe Mobley

Originally Posted by lanfear63

The US going belly up would affect us all big time though! I don't want it to happen. No instability or prosperity downturn is good for any of us.

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lanfear63

10 years ago

I have paid into a US bank (a few years back) a large sum of money (inheritance) from a UK account and we broached that with an H&R block guy when paying our taxes one year. He said, not taxable, not earned in the US. Now I wonder if that money had been left to my wife in the UK, a US citizen and she had paid it in, would their be a difference?

Like you say, a tax pro is needed. I am a permanent resident, not a citizen yet I have a soc seq number here and pay taxes.

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seasoned

10 years ago

Originally Posted by lanfear63

I have paid into a US bank (a few years back) a large sum of money (inheritance) from a UK account and we broached that with an H&R block guy when paying our taxes one year. He said, not taxable, not earned in the US. Now I wonder if that money had been left to my wife in the UK, a US citizen and she had paid it in, would their be a difference?

Like you say, a tax pro is needed. I am a permanent resident, not a citizen yet I have a soc seq number here and pay taxes.

Don't DEPEND on what he said! It MAY be taxable. Like I said, a tax attorney or some such. Just keep it in mind.

Steve

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lanfear63 10 years ago

Originally Posted by seasoned

Don't DEPEND on what he said! It MAY be taxable. Like I said, a tax attorney or some such. Just keep it in mind.

Steve

Opps! it's all gone. :-) But I confirmed this from several other sources! Spent most of it here.
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- seasoned 10 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by lanfear63
  
  Opps! it's all gone. :-) But I confirmed this from several other sources! Spent most of it here.
  
  Oh well. If you are honest, and keep away from the auditor for four years, it is unlikely they would see it ANYWAY! There ARE SOME limits! Of course, I never claimed to be a tax attorney, or even a CPA. So you may be totally right.
  
  It IS good that you checked other sources though. Nobody knows it all, and most likely haven't seen this sort of thing.
  
  Just checking other sources shows you acted in good faith, and that would help even if they DIDN'T like it!
  
  Steve
  
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Joe Mobley

10 years ago

************************************************** *
*
* Rule #1) Consult a tax professional. I am not one.
*
* Rule #2) Do NOT seek tax or legal counsel from professionals that
* are not experienced in International tax law.
*
************************************************** *

The US is one of the very few countries that taxes it's citizens on worldwide income.

Are you a US citizen? If not then you probably would not owe taxes on your non-US income. See rule #1.

I have heard that a considerable amount of US citizens who are living abroad and have been for years are renouncing their US citizenship because of this.

Correct. Once an American forfeits their citizenship, there non-US income is not taxable by the IRS. (There may, and probably will be additional considerations.)

The dollar could lose its status as the currency of choice and the US is screwed.

I believe that will happen but due to other reasons.

Good luck.

Joe Mobley

Originally Posted by lanfear63

I have been waiting for this thread to appear. I want some clarification on some points.

I was reading it would also apply to resident card holders too ( Green Card Holders) like me. So, If I go back to my native UK (citizen and passport holder), get a Job and have over 50 k in my UK bank account and pay my salary taxes to the UK government I would also be liable to pay taxes to the IRS?

Whats the deal?

I have heard that a considerable amount of US citizens who are living abroad and have been for years are renouncing their US citizenship because of this. Also banks abroad are telling Americans living there and banking with them that they no longer want their custom due to the fact that America want them to collect and feed back data about US citizens accounts off their own back and the leverage to get them to do this is to threaten them with penalties and fines based on any investments the institution has with the US.

Well this just might blow up in the USA's face. They might say well screw you, your not so rich and high and mighty as you were and living on borrowed money anyway. I'm taking my investments elsewhere, so no one ends up wanting to do business with the US or lend them money. The dollar could lose its status as the currency of choice and the US is screwed.

That's a worst case scenario though but will be watching this very closely over the next few months.

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seasoned

10 years ago

Originally Posted by David Maschke

We asked our politicians for low taxes, high benefit checks, and many government services. And they've delivered.

And we're crying because they've succeeded.

HUH? Inflation is up, taxes are up, and THAT is why I am complaining!

Steve

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David Maschke

10 years ago

Originally Posted by seasoned

HUH? Inflation is up, taxes are up, and THAT is why I am complaining!

Steve

You are part of a currently shrinking class that is being drained. Low income and the extremely rich are exempt, but the middle class is being squeezed. Then again, I'm not telling you anything you don't already know. On the larger issues I find you and I see things pretty much the same.

I need to find out what austerity was like in Greece and other parts of Europe to try and grasp what might happen over here. I'm only vaguely aware of what happened over there, reduced retirement payments and rumors of stolen accounts and such.

Edit: Inflation - the hidden tax by printing money and paid by everyone. Point taken.

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seasoned

10 years ago

Originally Posted by David Maschke

You are part of a currently shrinking class that is being drained. Low income and the extremely rich are exempt, but the middle class is being squeezed. Then again, I'm not telling you anything you don't already know. On the larger issues I find you and I see things pretty much the same.

I need to find out what austerity was like in Greece and other parts of Europe to try and grasp what might happen over here. I'm only vaguely aware of what happened over there, reduced retirement payments and rumors of stolen accounts and such.

Edit: Inflation - the hidden tax by printing money and paid by everyone. Point taken.

YEP, I AM well aware of that. I wish MORE were.

MY GOD, I sound like some old guy in his 80s talking about how everything used to cost a nickle. In MY day, it was more like a quarter. TODAY, it is like $2.50! Take coke, as an example! There is a famous ad in many nostalgia shops, on "american restorer", antique stores, etc... Some are ORIGINAL ACTUAL posters! HECK, there were even TV commercials!

Pepsi-Cola: A Nickel Drink - YouTube

You may balk and say this was 12, but later even the 16 cost that. But even if we had 2! 24oz for a dime! Just an example! Stamps were like $.03, $.13, and I don't even know what they cost now, but they are cutting back on services!

Inflation IS theft! I should have enough now to be retired, but inflation killed that dream.

Steve

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seasoned

10 years ago

Originally Posted by RichBeck

Steve,

Not exactly.....

To clarify....

A bad situation is having a "non-US citizen" on a "temporary work Visa" in the US of A.

I have seen many of them spend very minimally and send money "home." While income tax and some other taxes are collected, the bulk of this money "leaves" the US economy forever.

The worst situation is to have a US citizen's job moved abroad..... No income tax or sales tax is collected.

Please ask away if this isn't clear now.

All The Best,

Rich Beck BCIP, MCSD, MCIS

You have a point there, but a job IS still lost.

Steve

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seasoned

10 years ago

There are a LOT of little potential gotchas here. People have been talking about this for MONTHS! SOME have said that it may destroy the economy. There is ANOTHER thing that will happen July 1st, and people are saying THAT may destroy the US economy.

They may, or may not, be right, but it IS a bad precedent, and can grow. ALSO, it is another straw on the camels back.

Steve

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seasoned

10 years ago

Many here, and in general talk about how drugs should be LEGAL to some degree. Most talk NOT about any merits, or reason for it to be legal. In fact most DON'T want it to be LEGAL! They can't give a good reason for it to be LEGAL!

Instead, they talk about how relatively harmless it is, etc... and how it being illegal just makes many criminals. In short, they DON'T want it t be LEGAL! They just don't want it to be ILLEGAL!

MEANWHILE, MANY in that group are HAPPY with closing valid and reasonable shelters and deductions to make more have to practically go debt to keep from being criminals. They would LOVE to make the laws retroactive, and talk as if they are, though they can't be. Though some ARE made retroactive in a way. Even then, it is generally only for the current reporting year.

And if they find that closing shelters and the like are too much, they want to raise rates claiming they have been that high before!

Steve

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ThomM

10 years ago

Originally Posted by seasoned

Many here, and in general talk about how drugs should be LEGAL to some degree. Most talk NOT about any merits, or reason for it to be legal. In fact most DON'T want it to be LEGAL! They can't give a good reason for it to be LEGAL!

Instead, they talk about how relatively harmless it is, etc... and how it being illegal just makes many criminals. In short, they DON'T want it t be LEGAL! They just don't want it to be ILLEGAL!

MEANWHILE, MANY in that group are HAPPY with closing valid and reasonable shelters and deductions to make more have to practically go debt to keep from being criminals. They would LOVE to make the laws retroactive, and talk as if they are, though they can't be. Though some ARE made retroactive in a way. Even then, it is generally only for the current reporting year.

And if they find that closing shelters and the like are too much, they want to raise rates claiming they have been that high before!

Steve

I got to disagree Steve.
I think all drugs should be legal and the money wasted trying to enforce our drug laws used for treatment AND shelters where those choosing to quit a drug can get help in a drug free environment. Drug use should be looked at as a medical and health issue not as a crime.

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seasoned

10 years ago

Originally Posted by ThomM

I got to disagree Steve.
I think all drugs should be legal and the money wasted trying to enforce our drug laws used for treatment AND shelters where those choosing to quit a drug can get help in a drug free environment. Drug use should be looked at as a medical and health issue not as a crime.

But don't you see? You are arguing why it shouldn't be ILlegal! OK, maybe it is semantics, but it gets my point across.

Steve

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ThomM 10 years ago

Originally Posted by seasoned

But don't you see? You are arguing why it shouldn't be ILlegal! OK, maybe it is semantics, but it gets my point across.

Steve

Yeah that
I look at drug use the same as alcohol use.
An adult is free to decide if they want to drink or not.
If they commit a crime while drunk, it's still a crime.
If they can't control their alcohol there are programs and treatment centers where they can get help.
Even with tobacco, as an adult it's still your choice if you smoke or not.
If you decide to quit there are programs available to help you quit, some are even sponsored and funded by the state.
Why should it be different for other drugs?
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whateverpedia

10 years ago

A similar thing is happening Down Under:

Australia's richest could be hiding billions from tax office

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HeySal

10 years ago

The only thing that is going to fix the global economy is when all other countries wake up, get smart and kick World Bank to the curb. That would solve 99% of the wars, too. This whole globe is in turmoil for which the blame lays solely on the shoulders of that bank - mob rules.

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Floyd Fisher

10 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

I wonder what effect it'll have on U.S. tax receipts?

Over 77,000 separate foreign banks and financial firms will start sharing information on their American accountholders with the Internal Revenue Service (IRS) in cooperation with a major crackdown on offshore tax evasion, the Associated Press reports.

Full story here...

The Government Crackdown On Offshore Tax Dodging Just Got Real

People don't put money in foreign banks to evade taxes, they do it to lawsuit proof themselves, hence they already report said money to the IRS. So this won't do much for US tax receipts.

Here's something for you to think about...what if foreign banks instead decided to simply not do business in US dollars, and kicked US customers to the curb?

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TLTheLiberator

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Floyd Fisher

People don't put money in foreign banks to evade taxes, they do it to lawsuit proof themselves, hence they already report said money to the IRS. So this won't do much for US tax receipts.

Here's something for you to think about...what if foreign banks instead decided to simply not do business in US dollars, and kicked US customers to the curb?

That would be quite interesting.

As long this action brings in more money than we spend to get it - I'm all for it.

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seasoned

10 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

That would be quite interesting.

As long this action brings in more money than we spend to get it - I'm all for it.

YOU WOULD! You didn't even look at the law. Suppose, just suppose, and this HAS been happening, just SUPPOSE a large company decides to move offshore because of this? HECK, suppose FIFTY of the largest move! SUPPOSE WALMART moves its main offices and does something. Would that be worth it to you?

And this law isn't really about evasion anyway. They never do ANYTHING right! Like the time theybasically owed me, and claimed I owed THEM over $30,000! WHY? Because they felt I simply got it. YEAH RIGHT! Itwould defy ANY reasoning, but their lousy one sided bookkeeping said that. They changed at least THAT circumstance soon after. I wonder if my letter had anything to do with it.

Steve

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TLTheLiberator

10 years ago

Originally Posted by seasoned

YOU WOULD! You didn't even look at the law. Suppose, just suppose, and this HAS been happening, just SUPPOSE a large company decides to move offshore because of this? HECK, suppose FIFTY of the largest move! SUPPOSE WALMART moves its main offices and does something. Would that be worth it to you?

And this law isn't really about evasion anyway. They never do ANYTHING right! Like the time they basically owed me, and claimed I owed THEM over $30,000! WHY? Because they felt I simply got it. YEAH RIGHT! Itwould defy ANY reasoning, but their lousy one sided bookkeeping said that. They changed at least THAT circumstance soon after. I wonder if my letter had anything to do with it.

Steve

Most of your "chicken little what ifs" never ever pan out.

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Kay King

10 years ago

What are you folks arguing about?

The title is "shocking - tax dodging...crackdown.."

Because the story is on thinkprogress and that suits their audience perfectly.

The big guys are hiding money and all of the rest of us are being victimized....that's the story they want.

But despite having received a raft of accountholder records from Swiss banks under these various agreements and prosecutions, DOJ and IRS investigators “have bogged down” in their efforts to hold Americans accountable for tax cheating, according to Senate investigators. Fewer than 100 of the nearly 5,000 UBS accountholders identified to the DOJ have been prosecuted, subpoenas against other banks have gone unenforced, and the IRS has relied on voluntary disclosure from tax evaders to recoup back taxes rather than taking a more aggressive approach.

They "bogged down" because most of those offshore accounts aren't cheating in the first place. They are taking advantage of tax rules and loopholes the IRS ALLOWS BECAUSE CONGRESS PASSED THOSE LAWS.

Now we are striking deals with other countries to allow the IRS and DOJ full financial information about accounts of American citizens in foreign banks.
Add that to the information released by Snowden and the new data center in the west....where do US citizens find any level of privacy now?

Why More Americans Are Renouncing U.S. Citizenship : Parallels : NPR

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Patrician 10 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

What are you folks arguing about?

They are taking advantage of tax rules and loopholes the IRS ALLOWS BECAUSE CONGRESS PASSED THOSE LAWS.

6. Hiding income offshore

Throughout the years, numerous individuals have been identified as evading U.S. taxes by hiding income in offshore banks, brokerage accounts or nominee entities and then using debit cards, credit cards or wire transfers to access the funds. Others have employed foreign trusts, employee-leasing schemes, private annuities or insurance plans for the same purpose.

The IRS uses information gained from its investigations to pursue taxpayers with undeclared accounts, as well as the banks and bankers suspected of helping clients hide their assets overseas. The IRS works closely with the Department of Justice (DOJ) to prosecute tax evasion cases. While there are legitimate reasons for maintaining financial accounts abroad, there are reporting requirements that need to be fulfilled. U.S. taxpayers who maintain such accounts and who do not comply with reporting requirements are breaking the law and risk significant penalties and fines, as well as the possibility of criminal prosecution.

Since 2009, tens of thousands of individuals have come forward voluntarily to disclose their foreign financial accounts, taking advantage of special opportunities to comply with the U.S. tax system and resolve their tax obligations. And, with new foreign account reporting requirements being phased in over the next few years, hiding income offshore is increasingly more difficult. At the beginning of 2012, the IRS reopened the Offshore Voluntary Disclosure Program (OVDP) following continued strong interest from taxpayers and tax practitioners after the closure of the 2011 and 2009 programs. The IRS works on a wide range of international tax issues with DOJ to pursue criminal prosecution of international tax evasion.

This program will be open for an indefinite period until otherwise announced. The IRS has collected billions of dollars in back taxes, interest and penalties so far from people who participated in offshore voluntary disclosure programs since 2009. It is in the best long-term interest of taxpayers to come forward, catch up on their filing requirements and pay their fair share.
x
IRS]IRS:
IRS:
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seasoned 10 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

Most of your "chicken little what ifs" never ever pan out.

ACTUALLY, most HAVE! Even some where I gave myself another 5 years for them to pan out.

As for HERE? Some left a while ago. Pfizer recently came close to leaving!!!!!!!!

Last tuesday, they were STILL reporting about it:

AstraZeneca CEO On His Predecessors, Rivals, And Pfizer - Forbes

HERE is what they said about it a week ago:

U.S. Treasury Seen Loser in Tax-Avoiding Pfizer Move to U.K. (1) - Businessweek

Steve
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Floyd Fisher

10 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

That would be quite interesting.

As long this action brings in more money than we spend to get it - I'm all for it.

Except if all those dollars start flooding the US, you will have inflation a gogo.

That plus the real possibility of a worldwide depression as well as that money is pulled out of the world economy.

Not very good, now is it?

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seasoned

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Floyd Fisher

Except if all those dollars start flooding the US, you will have inflation a gogo.

That plus the real possibility of a worldwide depression as well as that money is pulled out of the world economy.

Not very good, now is it?

At the rate it is going, the world will likely become isolated from the US at some point. Of course this is a moving target. It could happen tomorrow, or take decades, but this decade has NOT been good! They have ALREADY started taking steps, and are continuing. OIL may now be purchased in more currencies, the YUAN is now open, and the EURO is unpegged from the dollar, for example. Great britain IS threatening to leave the EU soon BUT, even if they do, as I understand it, they are STILL on the pound! If britain DOES leave, it may not affect the EURO.

Steve

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TLTheLiberator

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Floyd Fisher

Except if all those dollars start flooding the US, you will have inflation a gogo.

That plus the real possibility of a worldwide depression as well as that money is pulled out of the world economy.

Not very good, now is it?

That type of money if it comes back or stays in the U.S. in the future, it'll be invested in the markets and not anywhere near the general economy.

So IMHO, your fears about inflation would be unfounded but it would probably help push up market values - until the market adjusts.

It sounds a lot like the myth of...

...if you tax the "job creators" a little more - it'll ruin the economy.

That money is not invested into the general economy anyways.

It's invested in the markets which nowadays is a world of its own and almost completely divorced from the general economy.

Same thing about the world economy because that type of money is not put into the general economies of the world.

All The Best!!

TL

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seasoned

10 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

That type of money if it comes back or stays in the U.S. in the future, it'll be invested in the markets and not anywhere near the general economy.

So IMHO, your fears about inflation would be unfounded but it would probably help push up market values - until the market adjusts.

It sounds a lot like the myth of...

...if you tax the "job creators" a little more - it'll ruin the economy.

That money is not invested into the general economy anyways.

It's invested in the markets which nowadays is a world of its own and almost completely divorced from the general economy.

Same thing about the world economy because that type of money is not put into the general economies of the world.

All The Best!!

TL

Which markets are those?
NOT STOCK
NOT BONDS
NOT DERIVATIVES
NOT FUTURES
NOT OPTIONS
NOT COMMODITIES

And certainly any others are in the general economy, so I give up, WHAT markets?

The deal is this! If OTHER countries don't want US money, the value of dollars will DROP! If we want something from CHINA, we will have to buy ANOTHER currency they will accept! Have you EVER tried to buy another currency? You lose on DEMAND, but that means the other side only breaks even! THEY take risk and break even? WHY would they do that? Often they WON'T, so they charge a PREMIUM!

EXAMPLE?

Right NOW, a YUAN costs 0.16196!

SO 100000CNY costs $16196USD!

At the MOMENT, FOXCONN likely pays suppliers, like INTEL, SAMSUNG, etc... in DOLLARS, so
$16196 may cost $16196! WHY? Because all will accept it generally for a set amount. Say the dollar loses favor! The risk goes UP! If it is HYPER inflation, like germany had just after WWI, there is NO way they will accept dollars. Dream on, NO WAY! So you may have to buy the yuan!

The 100000CNY may now cost $99000USD!

You HAVE to buy a currency your vendor considers stable, so YUAN may be ok here, but WHO would sell it at spot? OK, they decide they want a 10% premium. BANG, the cost is now $101970! China will NOT care where the money was.

You might say that apple will move it to the US, but they really couldn't in such a climate, and why would they want to? And it is easier said than done.

You have a great way of thinking! YOUR idea is the rich have an ENDLESS supply of money, so tax them into poverty! THEY will get poorer but prices won't go up and NO jobs will be lost! If jobs are lost, or prices go up, IGNORE IT! If you can't ignore it, say it is magic inflation, and offer NO explanation. If you get tired doing that, blame the now formerly rich for being GREEDY!

Steve

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Joe Mobley 10 years ago

I am a simple man...

As I see it right now, the current system of US law punishes individuals and businesses when they bring their foreign money back to America.

These same individuals and businesses are rewarded, again by current US law, by leaving their money off-shore.

I am not passing judgement on what is right, wrong, fair, unfair, etc. That's another thread for Paul to close.

Right now, if you have foreign income, there are legal opportunities to reduce you taxes and to protect your off-shore income.

Of course that could change at any time.

Joe Mobley
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seasoned

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Floyd Fisher

Here's something for you to think about...what if foreign banks instead decided to simply not do business in US dollars, and kicked US customers to the curb?

They ALREADY started doing that!

Steve

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The U.S. Government Crackdown On Offshore Tax Dodging Just Got Real:

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