Obama Commits Murder!

by Thomas
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And on TV too. Shocking stuff!

  • Profile picture of the author derekwong28
    PETA is upset

    London Free Press - Canada & World- Obama PETA's latest target

    "He isn't the Buddha, he's a human being and human beings have a long way to go before they think before they act,"
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    • Profile picture of the author ThomM
      Originally Posted by derekwong28 View Post

      PETA is upset

      London Free Press - Canada & World- Obama PETA's latest target

      "He isn't the Buddha, he's a human being and human beings have a long way to go before they think before they act,"
      Any enemy of PETA is a friend of mine.

      The only thing I find news worthy about the fly thing is that he was fast enough to get it. Those little suckers are quick.
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    PETA. huh. They kill 90% of the animals they "save". They are kind of like green peace gone completely whacked. But it's for the animals own good you understand. And nobody else is qualified to kill but them. THey got the word straight from God I guess.
    Scary organization. I love animals but I won't let a PETA nut case near one when I can help it.
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    • Profile picture of the author Rich Struck
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      PETA. huh. They kill 90% of the animals they "save". They are kind of like green peace gone completely whacked. But it's for the animals own good you understand. And nobody else is qualified to kill but them. THey got the word straight from God I guess.
      Scary organization. I love animals but I won't let a PETA nut case near one when I can help it.
      Yeah, they have some nerve, don't they? They kill thousands of animals a year but somehow that is okay. Give me a break.
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  • Profile picture of the author scorpio7
    This is absurd. All this energy stirred up over a fly! Wow, with everything that's going on...families homeless, hungry, children confused and frighten by their families situation, etc. All this attention for a nasty fly that vomits on your food when you're not looking. Bye fly! I won't miss you.
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    • Profile picture of the author Jeff Henshaw
      Flies don't vote, bubba.
      How do you know that?

      As they are to small to be able to pick up a pen or pencil, they may have been granted a postal vote.

      Heck sorry - then they would have had to have picked up the heavy voting form to post it - I retract everything.

      Anyway, I doubt that that particular fly was even registered to vote. They only live for about 60 hours as I understand. :confused:

      Jeff.
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Ellis
    Finally! Now you know why some of us voted for the other guy.

    JK :p
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    • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
      Haha.

      OK, lets see how McCain handled a fly situation.


      Originally Posted by Michael Ellis View Post

      Finally! Now you know why some of us voted for the other guy.

      JK :p
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      • Profile picture of the author Mike Calvert
        Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

        Haha.

        OK, lets see how McCain handled a fly situation. (video)
        That's a good one. And, I thought that conservatives were supposed to be intolerant.
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      • Profile picture of the author Michael Ellis
        Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

        Haha.

        OK, lets see how McCain handled a fly situation.
        Pretty funny. That's the first time I've seen that video.


        Originally Posted by Michael Motley View Post

        does it make anyone else sad that this is actually newsworthy?
        Yes, it is sad. But Obama is a media rock star. There will be a whole lot more of this type of "news" coming our way.
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        • Profile picture of the author Ken Strong
          Originally Posted by Michael Ellis View Post

          Yes, it is sad. But Obama is a media rock star. There will be a whole lot more of this type of "news" coming our way.
          Every President of the U.S. is a "media rock star" by default -- got nothing to do with Obama personally.
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          • Profile picture of the author Ken Strong
            Speaking of PETA, they're involved in another silly stunt here in Seattle -- the Pike Place Market is a big tourist attraction, and one of the biggest deals in the Market is this fish stand where the workers always put on a big show for the tourists involving throwing these big fish at each other while yelling, singing, telling jokes, etc.

            PETA is protesting the inhumane treatment of the fish (even though they're long dead when they're being thrown around).

            Local News | Peta vs. Pike Place fish-throwers | Seattle Times Newspaper
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            • Profile picture of the author fypnlp
              PETA make me laugh...in the UK they are called People Eat Tasty Animals (yum!)
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            • Profile picture of the author ThomM
              Originally Posted by KenStrong View Post

              Speaking of PETA, they're involved in another silly stunt here in Seattle -- the Pike Place Market is a big tourist attraction, and one of the biggest deals in the Market is this fish stand where the workers always put on a big show for the tourists involving throwing these big fish at each other while yelling, singing, telling jokes, etc.

              PETA is protesting the inhumane treatment of the fish (even though they're long dead when they're being thrown around).

              Local News | Peta vs. Pike Place fish-throwers | Seattle Times Newspaper
              I remember reading about that, well it was just yesterday so there goes the short term memory lose theory:rolleyes:
              Funny when I'm riding my metal ass in my leather jacket, boots, and gloves, I can't get any PETA members to mess with me

              So how many fish have those guys thrown at the protesters?
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          • Profile picture of the author Michael Ellis
            Originally Posted by KenStrong View Post

            Every President of the U.S. is a "media rock star" by default -- got nothing to do with Obama personally.
            The difference is how he's covered in the media.
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            • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
              Originally Posted by Michael Ellis View Post

              The difference is how he's covered in the media.
              Oh, you believe he's getting a pass right?

              TL
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              • Profile picture of the author Michael Ellis
                Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

                Oh, you believe he's getting a pass right?

                TL
                If your definition of "pass" means they ignore mostly anything negative about him (and his policies) and throw a positive spin on anything else he does, then yes, I do believe the majority of the media acts this way.
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                • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
                  Originally Posted by Michael Ellis View Post

                  If your definition of "pass" means they ignore mostly anything negative about him (and his policies) and throw a positive spin on anything else he does, then yes, I do believe the majority of the media acts this way.

                  Perception is really something because as far as I can tell they always have to take a "devil's advocate" position and also have to have someone on that's against whatever he's doing.

                  You haven't noticed the devil's advocate stuff??

                  TL
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                  • Profile picture of the author Michael Ellis
                    Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

                    Perception is really something because as far as I can tell they always have to take a "devil's advocate" position and also have to have someone on that's against whatever he's doing.

                    You haven't noticed the devil's advocate stuff??

                    TL
                    They don't always have to do anything. They (and I mean the news media) do what they want...

                    There are the CNNs and MSNBCs of the world that obviously cater to Obama and spin him in the utmost positive light every chance they get. Heck, MSNBC was even turning away paid ads that were against Obama's health care plan. That's nuts.

                    And yes, the Repubs have their news fans too, Foxnews. I enjoy Foxnews, but I'm certainly not blind to its heavily anti-Obama attitude.

                    The fact is, news doesn't seem to be too neutral anymore. Maybe it never was. But from a pure reach/numbers standpoint, Obama really does get pampered by most of the major news organizations... and let's not forget the great wisdom we seem to be getting bombarded with from the Hollywood folks, which I'm sure you'll agree is practically 100% pro-Obama.

                    And no, I haven't noticed all the Devil's advocate stuff.

                    I don't want to take over this thread with stuff we really aren't supposed to go into. In the end, you and I probably see it differently. I respect that.
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                    • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
                      Originally Posted by Michael Ellis View Post

                      They don't always have to do anything. They (and I mean the news media) do what they want...

                      There are the CNNs and MSNBCs of the world that obviously cater to Obama and spin him in the utmost positive light every chance they get. Heck, MSNBC was even turning away paid ads that were against Obama's health care plan. That's nuts.

                      And yes, the Repubs have their news fans too, Foxnews. I enjoy Foxnews, but I'm certainly not blind to its heavily anti-Obama attitude.

                      The fact is, news doesn't seem to be too neutral anymore. Maybe it never was. But from a pure reach/numbers standpoint, Obama really does get pampered by most of the major news organizations... and let's not forget the great wisdom we seem to be getting bombarded with from the Hollywood folks, which I'm sure you'll agree is practically 100% pro-Obama.

                      And no, I haven't noticed all the Devil's advocate stuff.

                      I don't want to take over this thread with stuff we really aren't supposed to go into. In the end, you and I probably see it differently. I respect that.
                      I respect your views also.

                      Here's my take on the coverage by the TV people...

                      MSNBC:

                      Morning Joe: May as well be Fox News lead by Joe Scars

                      Morning/Afternoon until 5pm:

                      Devil's advocate - fair with the opposition point of view:

                      Night time shows are all pro Obama:

                      CNN:

                      All day long devil's advocate - fair with the opposition point of view:

                      Night Time:
                      Lou Dobbs: May as well be FOX News

                      ( Lou lost me when he came on Bill Mahrs' show and blamed our probs in Irag on the commanders on the ground?????)

                      Rest of the evening lineup = Devil's advocate - fair with the opposition point of view:

                      Fox:

                      Forget it, 99.99% against Obama - all the time:

                      Chubby Checker has nothing on them. ( as in twisting the news )

                      Why wouldn't Hollywood be in the dems corner?

                      It's the repubs that tried to paint the wood as a bunch of commies during the red scare in the 1950's.

                      They also believe there's more money on the street with dems in power than repubs ( for the movies )...

                      ...and they were probably tired of getting flack from the international crowd about those mean, nasty repubs ( my way or the highway/ the ugly American personified ) being in power.

                      You do realize that all those Hollywood millionaires that supported Obama know that their taxes are going up and he's going to cost them money right?


                      Heck, even Andy Griffen was in Obama's corner and did a online commercial with Ron Howard.


                      As I said earlier, perception is really something.


                      All The Best To You & Yours!

                      TL
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                      • Profile picture of the author Michael Ellis
                        Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

                        As I said earlier, perception is really something.
                        Agree 100%.
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  • Profile picture of the author valerieSONORA
    And just when you thought PETA couldn't get anymore stupid. They won't have any credibility left with anyone after this. They are that upset over a fly? I'd like to put a bunch of mosquitos carrying malaria, fleas carrying the bubonic plague and flies carrying the tsetse virus in these PETA members homes. They wouldn't dare swat at them.
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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
      Valerie,
      And just when you thought PETA couldn't get anymore stupid.
      Ummm... I can't stand PETA, but they aren't making an issue out of it. The media contacted them for an "official response" to the incident, and PETA blew it off as no big deal.

      Not them that's being nuts this time.


      Paul
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      • Profile picture of the author valerieSONORA
        Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

        Valerie,Ummm... I can't stand PETA, but they aren't making an issue out of it. The media contacted them for an "official response" to the incident, and PETA blew it off as no big deal.

        Not them that's being nuts this time.


        Paul
        Really? Then I guess the humane fly catcher they sent Obama was just their version of a nice housewarming gift.
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  • Profile picture of the author artwebster
    All I can say is that the fly had very poor taste and lousy timing.
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    • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
      Originally Posted by artwebster View Post

      All I can say is that the fly had very poor taste and lousy timing.

      Meaning????



      TL
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  • Profile picture of the author clubvikram
    Banned
    I think Obama was leading by example.he showed how focus,concentration and determination could make you do the toughest of things and killing a flay at one shot is no joke. its easier to hunt a dreaded tiger or a leapord at one shot but to kill a fly at one shot you need to be exceptional.Americans made a right choice by selecting him and this fly act of this would add in his achievements.In the next presidential debate republican candidate will have a tough act to follow.so start practicing all the republican hopefuls!!!!!!!!
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Motley
    does it make anyone else sad that this is actually newsworthy?
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  • Profile picture of the author jgand
    He's quick, those reactions are off the chart. El presidente.
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Motley
    Just remember, meat is murder...tasty tasty murder...
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    • Profile picture of the author ThomM
      Originally Posted by Michael Motley View Post

      Just remember, meat is murder...tasty tasty murder...
      Well you know Mike, they say cow farts are responsible for our climate problems.
      So to protect our planet I am doing my part and eating every cow and calf I can, especially the calves, hmmmmm veal
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Motley
    other than gut and rework the automotive industry, shore up the banking industry, get us a$$ deep in debt until the planet ends, try to make amends with islamic nations, rework the healthcare industry, take on food label inconsistencies....not much, he's just hangin around taking pictures i guess
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  • Profile picture of the author Fernando Veloso
    Thanks warriors for those precious seconds of fun. I needed that.
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  • Profile picture of the author valerieSONORA
    Maybe he didn't have his humane bug catcher with him.
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    • Profile picture of the author Michael Ellis
      Originally Posted by valerieSONORA View Post

      Maybe he didn't have his humane bug catcher with him.
      You mean Joe Biden?

      Oops, sorry, I thought you said 'human' ... didn't see the 'e' on the end.

      :p
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  • Profile picture of the author blalock61
    B. Hussein killed a fly. Well, he found something that he can finally do other than being a Marxist.
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    • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
      So, now it's only B. Hussein?

      Originally Posted by blalock61 View Post

      B. Hussein killed a fly. Well, he found something that he can finally do other than being a Marxist.
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    • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
      Originally Posted by blalock61 View Post

      B. Hussein killed a fly. Well, he found something that he can finally do other than being a Marxist.
      Why do I get the feeling that you voted for the worst president in American history- twice??

      ( that was Bush in 2000 )

      And if you were too young to do it in 2000, why do it get the feeling that you voted against the country changing away the worst set of attitudes ( that lead to horrible policies )
      in American history?

      TL
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      • Profile picture of the author HeySal
        Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

        Why do I get the feeling that you voted for the worst president in American history- twice??

        ( that was Bush in 2000 )

        And if you were too young to do it in 2000, why do it get the feeling that you voted against the country changing away the worst set of attitudes ( that lead to horrible policies )
        in American history?

        TL
        Uh...Bush did NOT win the public vote - Twice. There are ways you can improve your memory. Right now there is a major lawsuit going on against our voting machines - which are actually owned by pro-bushies. We don't know who the public actually elected since we've been doing our voting electronically -- but enough evidence of tampering has finally been gathered to see them illegalized for good.

        Now all we need to do is convince humans that when someone stands there and makes promises for a year based in information that can shown to be false in the first place it's really not a great idea to elect them. We had a chance - there were third party candidates, but our cud chewers decided "we don't need no third parties." Go figure. I have no sympathy for people who refuse to vote third party when both of the main two are nothing but promises of different forms of destruction.
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        • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
          Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

          Uh...Bush did NOT win the public vote - Twice. There are ways you can improve your memory. Right now there is a major lawsuit going on against our voting machines - which are actually owned by pro-bushies. We don't know who the public actually elected since we've been doing our voting electronically -- but enough evidence of tampering has finally been gathered to see them illegalized for good.

          Now all we need to do is convince humans that when someone stands there and makes promises for a year based in information that can shown to be false in the first place it's really not a great idea to elect them. We had a chance - there were third party candidates, but our cud chewers decided "we don't need no third parties." Go figure. I have no sympathy for people who refuse to vote third party when both of the main two are nothing but promises of different forms of destruction.
          Something definitely needs to be done about those voting machines.

          At least the dems have a very powerful progressive wing of the party that has held them back in the past from acting like total repubs and now the progressive wing has taken over the party and the presidency.

          But that 2000 vote should not have even been close.

          Al Gore overestimated the political wisdom of the American people.

          The was no good reason to change parties after 8 decent years with Clinton but the dems did not make that clear to voters and it was close enough for the repubs to steal it.


          It should not have been close.


          TL

          Ps. I voted for Nader in 2000 because I knew he would not affect the vote in Maryland but I wanted his party to be eligible for federal funding.
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    News used to be objective. Remember Watergate? That was before news media was owned corporately. When you are owned by a corp - you do as the corp allows you to do.......and when you figure how dependent the Gov has made corps on government and how much money Gov gets from them - you aren't going to hear real news from any of the major media. There were even moves recently by one of Bushes pals that owns many of the news media to make a further grab. Not sure what happened to the bill prohibiting further consolidation or whether it passed or not.

    That's why I read 3rd party news. Some of them go further in the other direction than is honest, too - but there's a lot more going down behind the scenes than the average person is willing to look at yet. And there is so much of it, that its just hard to keep up and research everything.
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    • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      News used to be objective. Remember Watergate? That was before news media was owned corporately. When you are owned by a corp - you do as the corp allows you to do.......and when you figure how dependent the Gov has made corps on government and how much money Gov gets from them - you aren't going to hear real news from any of the major media. There were even moves recently by one of Bushes pals that owns many of the news media to make a further grab. Not sure what happened to the bill prohibiting further consolidation or whether it passed or not.

      That's why I read 3rd party news. Some of them go further in the other direction than is honest, too - but there's a lot more going down behind the scenes than the average person is willing to look at yet. And there is so much of it, that its just hard to keep up and research everything.
      I hear your 3rd party stuff, but I think the progressive wing of the dem party can take back control of the policies of the party.

      It won't be easy but it can be done.

      TL
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  • Profile picture of the author russellprisco
    OK.. I'm a Vegan....

    My first thought when I saw the title of this post was.. OK.. I HAVE to check this out. And when I saw the video I thought... THAT WAS A FREAKING AWESOME TITLE! There's got to be a way to capitalize on this!

    I won't get into the meat/ veggie issue.... But in regards to PETA....

    I absolutely agree that some people in the group, and even the organization as a whole, can take things too far sometimes.

    And I know that PETA does kill animals... But hello people....

    It's called People for the ETHICAL Treatment of Animals...

    ETHICAL....

    They know that they're not going to get everyone to stop eating meat. But what they do want to see happen is if you're going to kill an animal.... JUST freaking kill it. Don't torture them.

    Real quick, let me get MY opinion out of the way so I can get back to the issue at hand...

    I'm not one to push my ways on anyone. I understand ignorance is bliss. My belief is that if you want to eat meat, you should have to kill it yourself. There's plenty of people (men and women) that would be fine with that because that's how they were raised. But I believe that 90% of the people would not kill their own meat.

    People often ask me why I don't eat meat, and it's funny because most meat eaters that encounter vegetarians are annoyed at them trying to push vegetarianism on them (which I don't do... But if you WANT to know the advantages feel free to contact me, or even pick up a book called "Sknny Bitch"), but I have meat eaters trying to push meat on me all the time and make me "understand" why "it's OK to eat meat" or why I should.

    KFC is a perfect example. They're HORRIBLE when it comes to the treatment of animals.

    I just read on the online news (I almost NEVER read the news and here's a perfect example why) There was a story about a 26 year old guy that beat a puppy to death with a shovel and a board with nails...

    Let me ask you... Is that cool, or even OK?

    ... No?

    Is it just because it's a puppy? Would that have been OK if it were a cow?

    It's one thing to have a farm and raise animals for milk and slaughter so that you can eat to live. The reason I don't eat meat is because I love animals, and I don't have to. It's freaking 2009... The days of just tofu and beans is way past. There's just so many choices, I'd rather not have an innocent being have their life taken.

    NOW... With that said... I used to eat meat growing up... and it is delicious! The 2 things I think I miss the most are:

    1 - Corn Beef Hash
    2 - Taylor Ham Egg & Cheeses (If you don't know what I'm talking about, It's a Jersey Thing!)

    It tastes great...It's just disgusting.... But don't get me wrong. If I was stranded on a desert island and there was nothing to eat but animals... Sorry mister floppy... We're having rabbit stew tonight.

    The whole point is that it doesn't matter if your a scumbag to people or animals.... IF you're a scumbag... you're a scumbag...

    OH... And flies bring disease... so down with the flies! ( I only kill things that may bring harm to me and my family... flies, mosquitoes, ticks, fleas etc....)

    And as far as the voting machines...

    "He who votes counts for nothing but he who counts the votes counts for everything"

    - Russian dictator Josef Stalin

    Voting Machines Should Be ILLEGAL.

    (I know I may catch a lot of flack for this post from all the warrior meat eaters, but I think it's important to stand up for what you believe in)

    Oh and one more thing.. I think that was just a way to spin an article (and well done too obviously)... PETA didn't even say anything other than Obama wasn't Buddha...

    ~Russell Prisco =)
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    • Profile picture of the author ThomM
      My belief is that if you want to eat meat, you should have to kill it yourself.
      So you're saying that if a person in New York City wants a hamburger they should raise a cow in their apartment?
      Or you're saying every person in every city should be a vegan?
      And I know that PETA does kill animals... But hello people....

      It's called People for the ETHICAL Treatment of Animals...

      ETHICAL....
      So because they have Ethical in their name, only they are deemed wise enough to determine what animals shall live or die?
      I'm not one to push my ways on anyone. I understand ignorance is bliss.
      So everyone who isn't a vegan is ignorant?
      I just read on the online news (I almost NEVER read the news and here's a perfect example why) There was a story about a 26 year old guy that beat a puppy to death with a shovel and a board with nails...

      Let me ask you... Is that cool, or even OK?

      ... No?

      Is it just because it's a puppy? Would that have been OK if it were a cow?
      Typical, pull an example of cruel treatment on one animal and try to make like that is how all animals are killed for meat.
      It's one thing to have a farm and raise animals for milk and slaughter so that you can eat to live. The reason I don't eat meat is because I love animals, and I don't have to. It's freaking 2009... The days of just tofu and beans is way past. There's just so many choices, I'd rather not have an innocent being have their life taken.
      It seems you think that farmers who raise livestock don't love animals and aren't smart enough to figure out how to eat if they don't like meat.
      As soon as man encroached any wildlife's environment, man became responsible for the wildlife in that environment. As we take up more space we have to control the populations of the wildlife left in the space we have left them. It may not be right in your mind, but that is the way it is. If we don't control their populations then disease and starvation will. If all mankind stopped eating meat, then you have all the domestic animals that where raised for meat running wild and dieing from starvation and disease also, or you have the extinction of the domestic animals.
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  • Profile picture of the author valerieSONORA
    This turned from Obama to vegatarianism.

    Thom how could all the animals die of starvation and disease is ppl fed em and petted em and cuddled em? They would be like puppies n kitties.
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    • Profile picture of the author ThomM
      Originally Posted by valerieSONORA View Post

      This turned from Obama to vegatarianism.

      Thom how could all the animals die of starvation and disease is ppl fed em and petted em and cuddled em? They would be like puppies n kitties.
      Maybe in Wonderland Val, but reality is a different place
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    • Profile picture of the author russellprisco
      Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

      So you're saying that if a person in New York City wants a hamburger they should raise a cow in their apartment?
      Or you're saying every person in every city should be a vegan?
      I'm saying that people just eat meat because they were conditioned to do so because that's what their parents fed them as young children. If they fed them cow, dog or human, is irrelevant. That's what they've been conditioned to do... whether someone else thinks it's right or wrong. That's why we as Americans (as a whole) think it's disgusting to eat dogs.

      So because they have Ethical in their name, only they are deemed wise enough to determine what animals shall live or die?
      I'm not saying I condone what PETA does anymore than I support what a butcher does, but do are you really against them not wanting animals to be tortured?

      So everyone who isn't a vegan is ignorant?
      Boy you sure have a way to try and twist things....

      No. that would be ignorant of ME to think so.

      What I am simply saying is that it's EASIER for most people not to question things like this because it doens't "FEEL GOOD" to know the horrible things that go on in slaughter houses like how many cows don't actually die before they get dropped into boiling water. It's easier for someone to go to WalMart and pick up a package of "food" than it is to slaughter an animal themselves.

      Typical, pull an example of cruel treatment on one animal and try to make like that is how all animals are killed for meat.
      Typical? what are you talking about....

      Like I said before... ignorance is bliss...

      I never said that's how all animals are killed for meat. Just an example of how it's not OK to torture animals... sorry if you disagree with that.

      I didn't intend for this to be a back and forth meaty vs veggie conflict, but if it's ok for meat eaters to give their meaty thoughts there's no reason I can't share my veggie thoughts =)


      It seems you think that farmers who raise livestock don't love animals and aren't smart enough to figure out how to eat if they don't like meat.
      To say you love animals and eat them is ridiculous. Sure you can be carnivorous and love your dog... but then you don't love animals, you love dogs. And I'm not saying that they're not smart enough, they've just been conditioned to think it's Ok. Just like you apparently have, and just like I was when I was growing up.

      As soon as man encroached any wildlife's environment, man became responsible for the wildlife in that environment. As we take up more space we have to control the populations of the wildlife left in the space we have left them. It may not be right in your mind, but that is the way it is. If we don't control their populations then disease and starvation will. If all mankind stopped eating meat, then you have all the domestic animals that where raised for meat running wild and dieing from starvation and disease also, or you have the extinction of the domestic animals.
      Controlling the population is different from Factory Farms like McDonalds Wiping out huge chunks of the rain forest so they can mass breed animals for slaughter.

      So... the only way we can save animals from dying..... is to eat them.... hmmm.. yeah...

      I'll make sure not to be around your neck of the woods if I'm ever starving....

      Let's just agree to disagree and get back on topic. =)
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      • Profile picture of the author ThomM
        Originally Posted by russellprisco View Post

        I'm saying that people just eat meat because they were conditioned to do so because that's what their parents fed them as young children. If they fed them cow, dog or human, is irrelevant. That's what they've been conditioned to do... whether someone else thinks it's right or wrong. That's why we as Americans (as a whole) think it's disgusting to eat dogs.

        I'm not saying I condone what PETA does anymore than I support what a butcher does, but do are you really against them not wanting animals to be tortured?

        Boy you sure have a way to try and twist things....

        No. that would be ignorant of ME to think so.

        What I am simply saying is that it's EASIER for most people not to question things like this because it doens't "FEEL GOOD" to know the horrible things that go on in slaughter houses like how many cows don't actually die before they get dropped into boiling water. It's easier for someone to go to WalMart and pick up a package of "food" than it is to slaughter an animal themselves.

        Typical? what are you talking about....

        Like I said before... ignorance is bliss...

        I never said that's how all animals are killed for meat. Just an example of how it's not OK to torture animals... sorry if you disagree with that.

        I didn't intend for this to be a back and forth meaty vs veggie conflict, but if it's ok for meat eaters to give their meaty thoughts there's no reason I can't share my veggie thoughts =)


        To say you love animals and eat them is ridiculous. Sure you can be carnivorous and love your dog... but then you don't love animals, you love dogs. And I'm not saying that they're not smart enough, they've just been conditioned to think it's Ok. Just like you apparently have, and just like I was when I was growing up.

        Controlling the population is different from Factory Farms like McDonalds Wiping out huge chunks of the rain forest so they can mass breed animals for slaughter.

        So... the only way we can save animals from dying..... is to eat them.... hmmm.. yeah...

        I'll make sure not to be around your neck of the woods if I'm ever starving....

        Let's just agree to disagree and get back on topic. =)
        I agree we do disagree and that's fine.
        But some of your statements are so far off base that they have to be addressed.
        To say you love animals and eat them is ridiculous. Sure you can be carnivorous and love your dog... but then you don't love animals, you love dogs.
        What you are telling me is I hate any animal I eat and that is so ridiculous that it almost doesn't deserve a comment. I grew up on farms and have cared for cows, pigs, chickens, etc. I've spent more nights then I can count helping cows give birth. I also have worked 7 days a week keeping stalls clean and feeding those animals. I wouldn't nor would any farmer that I know spend that much time caring for animals I hate.
        So... the only way we can save animals from dying..... is to eat them.... hmmm.. yeah...
        WHen we build houses and communities where the wildlife population is high we take away their food sources and confine them to smaller areas that won't support their population, that's a simple fact. If we don't thin their population to a size that will survive in the area they have to live in starvation and disease will do it, again a simple fact. So what is more humane to quickly kill a portion of the population or to let them suffer and die a slow painful death?
        Controlling the population is different from Factory Farms like McDonalds Wiping out huge chunks of the rain forest so they can mass breed animals for slaughter.
        Absolutly, never said I was for those factory farms that mistreat the animals, neither is the farmer down the road who raises Angus cows for beef.
        Some me the proof that McD's is wiping out the rain forest for mass breeding. McD's has supplier's and isn't in the farming or breeding business.
        that go on in slaughter houses like how many cows don't actually die before they get dropped into boiling water.
        Yes some of the larger slaughter house's suck. But you are accusing a whole industry on the practice's of a few.
        I never said that's how all animals are killed for meat. Just an example of how it's not OK to torture animals... sorry if you disagree with that.
        No it's not ok to torture animals just like it's not ok to use one example and then imply that is what it is like to kill any animal.
        I didn't intend for this to be a back and forth meaty vs veggie conflict, but if it's ok for meat eaters to give their meaty thoughts there's no reason I can't share my veggie thoughts =)
        That I agree with 100%
        I'm saying that people just eat meat because they were conditioned to do so because that's what their parents fed them as young children.
        I eat meat because I like it same reason I eat vegatables.
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    • Profile picture of the author russellprisco
      Originally Posted by valerieSONORA View Post

      This turned from Obama to vegatarianism.

      Thom how could all the animals die of starvation and disease is ppl fed em and petted em and cuddled em? They would be like puppies n kitties.
      lol...agreed. I just posted my thoughts after seeing all the meat posts.

      Anyways, let's get things back on topic....

      I still think the title of this post was awesome =)

      OK.. who's next? =)

      ~Russell Prisco =)
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  • Profile picture of the author opportunity_kno
    Has anyone seen the comments on youtube like this "did he died" ... for some reason, I can see that being said here as well....and does anyone else think that is the most stupid thing ever!? especially on videos like failblog or other videos "did he died"... sheesh!
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Motley
    actually, people eat meat because of a lot of reasons. mostly because its goooooooood.

    and exactly how does mcdonalds wipe out huge chunks of the rain forest to mass bread?

    cows not dead before they are dropped in boiling water in a slaughter house? I worked in a slaughterhouse as a teen...being the guy in charge of putting out bessies lights..i can tell you without a doubt, they are dead before they hit the floor in most slaughterhouses.

    domesticated animals have one purpose...to feed the population. People dont have pet turkeys, chickens, cows and pigs for a reason...they arent pets.
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  • Profile picture of the author valerieSONORA
    Thom I'm getting you a herd of cute goats and sheep. You can't kill em but you can milk the goats and make goat cheese pizza

    And you can pet em and cuddle with em and baby talk em.
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    • Profile picture of the author ThomM
      Originally Posted by valerieSONORA View Post

      Thom I'm getting you a herd of cute goats and sheep. You can't kill em but you can milk the goats and make goat cheese pizza

      And you can pet em and cuddle with em and baby talk em.
      That's ok VAl.
      My friend has goats (and chickens, guinea hens,rabbits, and geese) and just down from him is a small sheep farm. Down the road from me is a small cattle farm where they raise Angus beef. Then there is all the wildlife around me like deer, rabbits (I have a small family living in my yard) Turkey, and my personal favorite a Pileated Woodpecker.
      Growing up on farms and having killed and butchered many animals I can tell you that unless you have lived that life you can't understand how someone can raise and care for an animal and still use it for food. I can tell you that there isn't any hate towards the animals, they have a purpose and play a vary important role in the cycle of life.
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      • Profile picture of the author russellprisco
        Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

        I agree we do disagree and that's fine.
        But some of your statements are so far off base that they have to be addressed.
        Well at least we're getting somewhere now... =)

        What you are telling me is I hate any animal I eat and that is so ridiculous that it almost doesn't deserve a comment. I grew up on farms and have cared for cows, pigs, chickens, etc. I've spent more nights then I can count helping cows give birth. I also have worked 7 days a week keeping stalls clean and feeding those animals. I wouldn't nor would any farmer that I know spend that much time caring for animals I hate.
        There's a difference between appreciation and love. I love my children, and I would never eat them. I love my dogs, and would never eat them either. You don't LOVE things and then eat them. You may love to eat them, but that's entirely different. You may appreciate and even honor them... but no.. you did not love them. Or else that's just really messed up.


        WHen we build houses and communities where the wildlife population is high we take away their food sources and confine them to smaller areas that won't support their population, that's a simple fact. If we don't thin their population to a size that will survive in the area they have to live in starvation and disease will do it, again a simple fact. So what is more humane to quickly kill a portion of the population or to let them suffer and die a slow painful death?
        Hey, I wouldn't be the one to do it, but such logic does make "some" sense to me. If there is an overpopulation of deer in a frigid area in the winter time, I can kind of get the "thinning down the numbers" logic. But that has nothing to do with eating them. It's like saying, my dog is in pain so I'm going to put him down.... and then eat him.

        Absolutly, never said I was for those factory farms that mistreat the animals, neither is the farmer down the road who raises Angus cows for beef.
        I'm glad to hear it. =)

        And I'm not saying that farmers are bad people. Most likely, that is how there parents made a living and fed their family, and I get that.

        Some me the proof that McD's is wiping out the rain forest for mass breeding. McD's has supplier's and isn't in the farming or breeding business.
        They are in the business to make money period. I once heard that McDonalds wants to become the PRIMARY supplier of Beef. GOd help everyone if that's true.

        McDonald's Linked to Rainforest Destruction
        FOXNews.com - Greenpeace: McDonald's Fueling Rainforest Destruction - Business And Money | Business News | Financial News
        McLibel Verdict

        Yes some of the larger slaughter house's suck. But you are accusing a whole industry on the practice's of a few.
        Yes, it might be the "few"... but unfortunately those "few" account for the majority of slaughters.

        No it's not ok to torture animals just like it's not ok to use one example and then imply that is what it is like to kill any animal.
        Would it be better if I listed many then?

        Like I said before, I didn't list this as an example to imply that that's what it's like to kill any animal, I used the example to say that it's not OK to torture ANY animal, whether it be a pig, a cow, a chicken, OR a dog etc...

        That I agree with 100%
        Glad we're making headway =)

        I eat meat because I like it same reason I eat vegatables.
        Totally agree.. both very tasty. (side note, you may be surprised to know that I really don't eat many vegetables ( I know that sounds funny, and I also know I should eat more of them....lol..))

        Originally Posted by Michael Motley View Post

        actually, people eat meat because of a lot of reasons. mostly because its goooooooood.

        and exactly how does mcdonalds wipe out huge chunks of the rain forest to mass bread?

        cows not dead before they are dropped in boiling water in a slaughter house? I worked in a slaughterhouse as a teen...being the guy in charge of putting out bessies lights..i can tell you without a doubt, they are dead before they hit the floor in most slaughterhouses.

        domesticated animals have one purpose...to feed the population. People dont have pet turkeys, chickens, cows and pigs for a reason...they arent pets.
        Totally agreeed... meat is very tasty. I just find it repulsive now to eat carcus.

        I'm glad that the slaughterhouse you worked in didn't have that happen, but in the bigger slaughterhosues, it is unfortunately something that does happen. By the way, after you "killed" the cattle, were you there to see whether or not that was the case? Not being a jerk, just really wondering if you were at 2 places at once.

        Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

        That's ok VAl.
        My friend has goats (and chickens, guinea hens,rabbits, and geese) and just down from him is a small sheep farm. Down the road from me is a small cattle farm where they raise Angus beef. Then there is all the wildlife around me like deer, rabbits (I have a small family living in my yard) Turkey, and my personal favorite a Pileated Woodpecker.
        Growing up on farms and having killed and butchered many animals I can tell you that unless you have lived that life you can't understand how someone can raise and care for an animal and still use it for food. I can tell you that there isn't any hate towards the animals, they have a purpose and play a vary important role in the cycle of life.
        Again, I do believe that there is a big difference (for the most part) between the farmer down the road, and where the 5,700+ Wal-Marts and other grocery stores get their meat from. (God, I can even tell that the produce at Walmart Sucks... you can tell it's been forced to grow so that they can make as much of it as possle.... anyone else thinks Walmart has the WORST produce???)
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        • Profile picture of the author ThomM
          There's a difference between appreciation and love. I love my children, and I would never eat them. I love my dogs, and would never eat them either. You don't LOVE things and then eat them. You may love to eat them, but that's entirely different. You may appreciate and even honor them... but no.. you did not love them. Or else that's just really messed up.
          I think the Angus farmer down the road would disagree with that.
          I can tell you never lived or worked on a farm. His father was a hay and dairy farmer by the way.
          He got into raising Angus as a child raising them to show at 4 H.
          When you are raised on a farm you understand what will become of the animals you raise if they are for food. Trust me here, but you don't put in 18 hour days 6 and 7 days a week for the money because you can make alot more at a day job. You love the land and you love the animals you raise, but you also know the purpose, again I can understand you not understanding that as it takes a special person for that kind of life. I've seen farmers in tears because one of their animals was sick or hurt, not because they where losing money but because the animal was suffering.
          Hey, I wouldn't be the one to do it, but such logic does make "some" sense to me. If there is an overpopulation of deer in a frigid area in the winter time, I can kind of get the "thinning down the numbers" logic. But that has nothing to do with eating them. It's like saying, my dog is in pain so I'm going to put him down.... and then eat him.
          It's not even close to the same as killing your dog and eating it.
          I'd say it makes sense to eat what you kill so that life isn't wasted in death.
          Again that applies to population control. When the dust storms wiped out all the farms in the mid west years ago one of the side effects was the jack rabbit population exploded. They corraled the rabbits in fenced in areas and beat them to death leaving the carcases their to rot. That to me is unexceptable and not what we would even concider as conservationilest.
          Here in NY and I'm pretty sure most all the other states the number of deer, turkey, and other game animals you can take is determined by the animals population, area it has for habitat, and number of applicants for licenses to hunt them. If the habitat is determined to be able to support the population and number of new births that year there is no hunting allowed there. For many people this is the only meat they get. To just kill the animals and not use them for food is a waste which is why I don't condone trophy hunting where you are killing an animal just for it's antlers or beards, etc. I love to fish but don't eat fish, so I always fish with worms (feed the fish) and always use barbless hooks which don't damage the fish like barbed hooks do and because of the area the hook is set in is normally painless to the fish according to the reports by wildlife biologist that I have read. I also release the fish as soon as they are caught sometimes catching the same fish again.
          Greenpeace on Thursday said McDonald's Corp. (MCD) was fueling the destruction of the Amazon rainforest by using soybeans grown in the region as feed for chickens that end up served in the fast-food chain's European restaurants.
          So the reality there is the farmers and timber companies are distroying the rain forest. Not that that makes it right. If you have any furniture in your house made from wood from the rain forest you are as much to blame as McDonalds.
          Like I said before, I didn't list this as an example to imply that that's what it's like to kill any animal, I used the example to say that it's not OK to torture ANY animal, whether it be a pig, a cow, a chicken, OR a dog etc...
          There is a big difference between torturing an animal and killing an animal for food. again I'll use the Angus farmer as an example, he knows hoew to kill his cows so they die instantly, no suffering, no torturing.
          Again, I do believe that there is a big difference (for the most part) between the farmer down the road, and where the 5,700+ Wal-Marts and other grocery stores get their meat from. (God, I can even tell that the produce at Walmart Sucks... you can tell it's been forced to grow so that they can make as much of it as possle.... anyone else thinks Walmart has the WORST produce???)
          I agree those large corprate farms are as bad as the puppy mills you read about.

          Here's my take on this vegan vs. meat eater's thing.
          I don't care what you choose to eat and why you choose it. If you believe what you are doing is right fine, so do I. But don't (and I don't mean you personally) belittle my beliefs and act all superior, and don't try to shame me into thinking I'm a murderer because I enjoy a good stake.
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        • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
          How do you know? This is a statement that sounds good to vegetarians, who I have nothing against really, but in reality makes no sense. I have seen people pray before and after killing an animal knowing that the food is a gift from mother nature, or god, or whatever. Does that mean the people killing/eating the animal couldn't love the animal? No.

          You also mention that we are "conditioned" to eat meat. Yeh, if you mean by thousands of years of doing so. Face it, we as humans are natural meat eaters. That's one of the reasons it tastes good to us. We also like vegetables and fruits.

          You know, plants are living things also. Why do you eat them? Do you think they don't suffer when they are picked? Do you not "love" plants? If you do love them, why do you eat them? See how your arguement falls apart?

          Originally Posted by russellprisco View Post

          You don't LOVE things and then eat them.
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        • Profile picture of the author Michael Motley
          Originally Posted by russellprisco View Post

          There's a difference between appreciation and love. I love my children, and I would never eat them. I love my dogs, and would never eat them either. You don't LOVE things and then eat them. You may love to eat them, but that's entirely different. You may appreciate and even honor them... but no.. you did not love them. Or else that's just really messed up.
          ?)
          Thats not always true. I raised a baby calf when i was about 15 named Fred. His mother died in winter, so I raised him.. I loved that calf. I worked for its food, I hand fed that calf every single night via bottle, similar to you and your children. When it stormed out I worried for his safety, similar to you and your children. I was concerned with his health, what he ate, how much he exerted himself..same as you and your children. He knew me on site, cried when I was gone, was happy when i showed up, same as you and your children. I loved the little fuzzball.

          But when his little furry butt hit market weight, not only was he drawn and quartered...but I helped.

          'Fred' made a fine burger indeed.
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          • Profile picture of the author ThomM
            Russell this little 'debate' we have been having has by far been the most enjoyable one I have ever had with a vegan, thank you.
            Even though I enjoy meat I have been known to go weeks eating just fruits, vegetables, and grains because I like them also. In fact during the summer heat I actually eat less meat then I do in the winter, I don't know why but I do. When I lived in Tampa there was a vegetarian restaurant called 'The Natural Kitchen' right across the street (I forget which street) from Bush Gardens where I ate lunch every day. They had a dish that was steamed vegetables on rice with a cheese(Tofu?) and mushroom sauce that was incredible.
            My problem is the way most vegans have that superior attitude and the need to lecture you if you are a meat eater.
            When I have some people over for dinner or BBQ there always seems to be one or two that are vegans. If they come up to me and politely explain they don't eat meat I will go out of my way to provide them a meal they will eat. If they start with the lectures they get my foot up their ass as I'm kicking them out the door.
            Again thanks for the good debate.
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          • Profile picture of the author Michael Ellis
            Originally Posted by Michael Motley View Post

            Thats not always true. I raised a baby calf when i was about 15 named Fred. His mother died in winter, so I raised him.. I loved that calf. I worked for its food, I hand fed that calf every single night via bottle, similar to you and your children. When it stormed out I worried for his safety, similar to you and your children. I was concerned with his health, what he ate, how much he exerted himself..same as you and your children. He knew me on site, cried when I was gone, was happy when i showed up, same as you and your children. I loved the little fuzzball.

            But when his little furry butt hit market weight, not only was he drawn and quartered...but I helped.

            'Fred' made a fine burger indeed.
            Man, you are cold as ice!
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            • Profile picture of the author russellprisco
              Originally Posted by valerieSONORA View Post

              Gasp! How dare you not eat many vegetables. Tsk tsk. Don't you know how healthy they are and yummy! Shame on you, you're not one of those chocolate and chip vegetarians are you?

              If I lived on a farm I'd be a vegetarian for sure. I wouldn't be able to eat an animal that I once saw alive whether it was a pet or not or whether I cared for it or not.
              Sadly... Yes, I'm one of those Vegan Junkaholics... Oh.. don't forget to add the alcohol in there...

              Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

              Russell this little 'debate' we have been having has by far been the most enjoyable one I have ever had with a vegan, thank you.
              Much fun indeed. =)

              Even though I enjoy meat I have been known to go weeks eating just fruits, vegetables, and grains because I like them also. In fact during the summer heat I actually eat less meat then I do in the winter, I don't know why but I do. When I lived in Tampa there was a vegetarian restaurant called 'The Natural Kitchen' right across the street (I forget which street) from Bush Gardens where I ate lunch every day. They had a dish that was steamed vegetables on rice with a cheese(Tofu?) and mushroom sauce that was incredible.
              You still live in Florida? I'm in Cape Coral right near Ft Myers. (SW FL)

              My problem is the way most vegans have that superior attitude and the need to lecture you if you are a meat eater.
              I agree there are a lot of veggie heads that go overboard, but understand it's because it's something that those nut jobs believe in.

              Again, being a vegan, I can tell you on my side of the spectrum that 8 times out of 10 if someone offers me some meat and I tell them politely, "no thanks, I don't eat meat, I'm a vegan" that person will hem and haw like there's no tomorrow and try to convince me why it's ok, and why i should eat meat.

              What get's me is that if they were offering me a pickle, and I said no thanks, I really don't care for pickles, they would not do the same.

              If they start with the lectures they get my foot up their ass as I'm kicking them out the door.
              Again thanks for the good debate.
              lol... I agree.. no one likes to be lectured that they are doing something wrong (whether it really is or isn't)... Just remember to shine your shoes when your done.


              Originally Posted by Michael Ellis View Post

              Man, you are cold as ice!
              TOTALLY Agree... TOTALLY...

              NOW.... back to making money =)

              Thanks again,

              ~Russell Prisco =)
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              • Profile picture of the author ThomM
                You still live in Florida? I'm in Cape Coral right near Ft Myers. (SW FL)
                No I missed gardening in real soil instead of sand and I missed the mountains (Adirondacks).
                I still have many friends there though and try to get down when I can.
                Again, being a vegan, I can tell you on my side of the spectrum that 8 times out of 10 if someone offers me some meat and I tell them politely, "no thanks, I don't eat meat, I'm a vegan" that person will hem and haw like there's no tomorrow and try to convince me why it's ok, and why i should eat meat.
                Yep there are idiots on both sides of the fence. They would get my foot just as fast.
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  • Profile picture of the author russellprisco
    All right... well, let's wrap up this post, I've still got to spend some time marketing..lol..

    The majority of people are not going to stop eating meat, and I'm not trying to force anyone to. Once again, just a meat eater and vegetarian sharing their opinions...

    There are people that are so hard core that they will not eat a piece of fruit that did not naturally fall from the tree... way too much for me.

    Yes, it's scientifically proven that plants do feel pain. And no, I would not say that I "love" plants. If you read the previous posts you'd know 2 things...

    1, I don't eat that many vegetables lol.... although I suppose that you can count soybeans etc...

    I do however like them, and have a great appreciation for them, such as the people you speak of that pray before they kill an animal or before they eat it. Again, that is APPRECIATION.. not love.

    For your farmer down the road example, that may be true for him, but he is then BY FAR the exception, not the rule. And again, it's because how he was raised, just like the way you were raised also.

    You right, I don't understand and don't ever think I will. It sounds to me like you were raised on a farm, maybe you appreciated the animals you cared for, maybe you loved them, and then you did what your parents told you to do like any child does, which I do get. Again, your parents (all of our parents) teach you what is "OK", right and wrong.

    2. I said that if I had to, I would eat meat to survive. I eat "plants" because my body needs them to survive. If I didn't have to, I probably wouldn't. But that's the way it is. I'm not saying that we should turn lions into vegans, but we're humans and one would think that after eating meat for "thousands of years of doing so" that we could evolve into something greater. Lots of things have happened for thousands of years..... That doesn't make it right. Wars, rape, murder, holy wars etc...

    My "argument" is simply my opinion, which is fully in tact. There is so many options available for food without having an innocent animal Die.

    As for the farmer down the road, again, it's a matter of conditioning at a young age. That's just the way it is for all of us. I would agree from our conversation that farming is a different way of life, and one that that farmer adapted to. He may make more money at a day job and even work less, but he's most likely accustomed to that way of life. That's his identity. It's who he is.

    So again, we both agree that factory farms suck, I never mentioned anything about puppy mills (which also suck), we both agree that the whole rabbit incident was a sad and needless event, it's more than just Mickey D's destroying the rain forest (never said they were SOLEY responsible), there is a difference between torturing an animal and killing it for food indeed and it's a shame that with the bigger companies things like this do happen, intentionally and unintentionally. I could give you some examples, but I believe you'd try to justify it saying... Typical... take one event....

    My take. I'm not trying to get you to stop eating meat. This is my personal belief, I'm not belittling anyone, and I'm certainly not acting all superior.. I could turn that around with all your, you don't know what it's like because you weren't raised on a farm comments... but i don't believe you meant it like that either.

    So please know, that I do not feel I am superior, but do feel like I have made the superior choice for me, just as you feel you have made the superior choice for you.

    I apologize for this mixed, and somewhat sporadic post. I just didn't feel like putting quotes around everything.


    You like meat.. I like meat... you'd kill it yourself because you were raised on a farm, I wouldn't because I think it's unnecessary but would if I had to.... etc....


    Again, lets just agree to disagree and get back to making money.


    So, is there anything I can do to help you with your business (please don't take this as me thinking I'm superior (If I was just judging from the amounts of posts, I'd say you got me there!) just genuinely offering some assistance if there's anything I can do.)


    It's been fun,


    ~Russell Prisco =)
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    • Profile picture of the author valerieSONORA
      Originally Posted by russellprisco View Post


      1, I don't eat that many vegetables lol.... although I suppose that you can count soybeans etc...
      Gasp! How dare you not eat many vegetables. Tsk tsk. Don't you know how healthy they are and yummy! Shame on you, you're not one of those chocolate and chip vegetarians are you?

      If I lived on a farm I'd be a vegetarian for sure. I wouldn't be able to eat an animal that I once saw alive whether it was a pet or not or whether I cared for it or not.
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