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Interesting Observation

by SteveJohnson
51 replies
  • OFF TOPIC
    • |
During the 3-1/2 years of World War 2 that started with the Japanese bombing of Pearl Harbor in December 1941 and ended with the surrenders of Germany and Japan in 1945, the U.S. produced
  • 22 aircraft carriers
  • 147 merchant ships converted to carriers
  • 8 battleships
  • 48 cruisers
  • 349 destroyers
  • 420 destroyer escorts
  • 203 submarines
  • 35,000 landing craft
  • 34 million tons of merchant ships
  • 99,000 fighter aircraft
  • 97,000 bombers
  • 23,000 transport aircraft
  • 57,000 training aircraft
  • 173,477 tanks and self-propelled guns
  • 257,390 artillery pieces
  • 105,055 mortars
  • 2,679,840 machine guns
  • 2,382,311 military trucks
We put 16.1 million men in uniform in the various armed services, invaded Africa, invaded Sicily and Italy, won the battle for the Atlantic, planned and executed D-Day, marched across the Pacific and Europe, developed the atomic bomb, and ultimately conquered Japan and Germany.

During the almost exact amount of time, we couldn't even get a healthcare web site built.
  • Profile picture of the author Joe Mobley
    Steve,

    Might I suggest there is a quality-of-leadership difference involved.

    Joe Mobley
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    • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
      Originally Posted by Joe Mobley View Post

      Steve,

      Might I suggest there is a quality-of-leadership difference involved.

      Joe Mobley
      Well, If you are talking about Obama compared to Roosevelt, Roosevelt is consistantly ranked in the top three of our Presidents, so not that many Presidents compare well to him, however Obama has been ranked in the top 15.

      "A 2010 Siena poll of 238 Presidential scholars found that former president George W. Bush was ranked 39th out of 43, with poor ratings in handling of the economy, communication, ability to compromise, foreign policy accomplishments, and intelligence. Meanwhile, the current president, Barack Obama was ranked 15th out of 43, with high ratings for imagination, communication ability and intelligence and a low rating for background (family, education and experience)."

      Historical rankings of Presidents of the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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      • Profile picture of the author Joe Mobley
        Any individual or group that gives the current president "high ratings for intelligence" is displaying a huge lack of their own.

        Also, do not confuse my enthusiastic disdain for the current president with support for his immediate predecessor. Nothing could be further from the truth.

        Joe Mobley

        Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

        "... Meanwhile, the current president, Barack Obama was ranked 15th out of 43, with high ratings for imagination, communication ability and intelligence and a low rating for background (family, education and experience)."
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        • Profile picture of the author ThomM
          Originally Posted by Joe Mobley View Post

          Any individual or group that gives the current president "high ratings for intelligence" is displaying a huge lack of their own.

          Also, do not confuse my enthusiastic disdain for the current president with support for his immediate predecessor. Nothing could be further from the truth.

          Joe Mobley
          Joe as you probably already figured out neither side can except the fact that the majority of people in this country don't belong to either party.
          If you say the least little thing about their guy(s) you are automatically from the other side.
          Americans are increasingly declaring independence from the political parties. It is not uncommon for the percentage of independents to rise in a non-election year, as 2013 was. Still, the general trend in recent years, including the 2012 election year, has been toward greater percentages of Americans identifying with neither the Republican Party nor the Democratic Party, although most still admit to leaning toward one of the parties.Record-High 42% of Americans Identify as Independents
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        • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
          Originally Posted by Joe Mobley View Post

          Any individual or group that gives the current president "high ratings for intelligence" is displaying a huge lack of their own.

          Also, do not confuse my enthusiastic disdain for the current president with support for his immediate predecessor. Nothing could be further from the truth.

          Joe Mobley
          And any American individual who has an enthusiastic disdain for #44...

          - Doesn't understand American history and would constantly be on the wrong side of it no matter what time period they would have lived in.

          For example....

          They would have fought FDR tooth and nail, fought on the side of the south in the civil war - even though they were born and raised in the north, been one of the folks hoping the Americans lost the war for independence - a tory - and would have even helped the British during the war of 1812.

          - Doesn't understand the American economics/economy and what makes it tick.

          Chances are they were against the 2009 stimulus which prevented the great recession from turning into another great depression.

          - Wouldn't know a decent POTUS if they slapped him/her in the face and/or the founders appeared in ghostly form and tried to reason with him.

          - Unless they're already independently wealthy ain't doing family members & friends who are not already independently wealthy any favors.

          - Lost in a web of misunderstanding and should start yelling at the top of their lungs "help me!, help me!" ala The Fly.

          - Is carrying water for power financial forces that would love to keep the USA economy in the current state it is in for the foreseeable future - especially the tax code.

          - Awfully "hungry for knowledge" - especially economic knowledge.

          - Doesn't understand the effect of policies on the society.

          - Probably styles their self as some sort of super rugged individual who believes people can stand up to the power of large financial concerns without any type of help from any government.

          - Styles themselves as some sort of independent but their economic philosophy is in tune with modern day GOP policies and attitudes.

          - Is listening to and egged on by the wrong people.

          - Would have had an enthusiastic disdain for FDR also - which would also make them about as wrong for the American standard of living as Roy Riegels and Jim Marshall.


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          • Profile picture of the author ThomM
            Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

            And any American individual who has an enthusiastic disdain for #44...

            - Doesn't understand American history and would constantly be on the wrong side of it no matter what time period they would have lived in.

            For example....

            They would have fought FDR tooth and nail, fought on the side of the south in the civil war - even though they were born and raised in the north, been one of the folks hoping the Americans lost the war for independence - a tory - and would have even helped the British during the war of 1812.

            - Doesn't understand the American economics/economy and what makes it tick.

            Chances are they were against the 2009 stimulus which prevented the great recession from turning into another great depression.

            - Wouldn't know a decent POTUS if they slapped him/her in the face and/or the founders appeared in ghostly form and tried to reason with him.

            - Unless they're already independently wealthy ain't doing family members & friends who are not already independently wealthy any favors.

            - Lost in a web of misunderstanding and should start yelling at the top of their lungs "help me!, help me!" ala The Fly.

            - Is carrying water for power financial forces that would love to keep the USA economy in the current state it is in for the foreseeable future - especially the tax code.

            - Awfully "hungry for knowledge" - especially economic knowledge.

            - Doesn't understand the effect of policies on the society.

            - Probably styles their self as some sort of super rugged individual who believes people can stand up to the power of large financial concerns without any type of help from any government.

            - Styles themselves as some sort of independent but their economic philosophy is in tune with modern day GOP policies and attitudes.

            - Is listening to and egged on by the wrong people.

            - Would have had an enthusiastic disdain for FDR also - which would also make them about as wrong for the American standard of living as Roy Riegels and Jim Marshall.


            Roy Riegels wrong way run in the Rose Bowl - YouTube
            I don't know what's funnier. That you say that stuff or that you believe it.
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            • Profile picture of the author ThomM
              Doesn't understand American history
              They would have fought FDR tooth and nail,
              I certainly would have, but then I understand American History.
              There was no relief from the liberal Roosevelt administration, whose National Recovery Act (NRA) of 1933 was soon referred to by Blacks as the Negro Removal Act. Although its stated goal was nondiscriminatory hiring and an equal minimum wage for whites and Blacks, NRA public works projects rarely employed Blacks and maintained racist wage differentials when they did.Blacks and the Great Depression | SocialistWorker.org
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              • Profile picture of the author Ron Lafuddy
                Here's a short BBC series on WWII that some of you "history nuts" might enjoy.
                One things for sure. The lines are sometimes blurry and not as straight as we'd
                like to think.

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                • Profile picture of the author ThomM
                  Here's an article from the CATO Institute about the real effects of FDR's programs.
                  Why Did FDR's New Deal Harm Blacks? | Cato Institute
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              • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
                Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

                I certainly would have, but then I understand American History.

                And most Americans back in 1932 were savvy enough to reject and to not embrace the same attitudes/policies that got the nation into the mess it was in - but not you.

                Am I supposed to have a real problem with FDR because of the racism of the American people in the 1930's? I guess I would - using your stellar logic.

                How far back are you going to go?

                Since there's still plenty of racism going on today, so I guess I should have a real problem with #44 also?

                During FDR's terms and until 1952 you folks were loud and still wrong as a $3 bill but you had no power to F things up/slow things down as you do today.

                Thanks a million.
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                • Profile picture of the author ThomM
                  Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

                  Am I supposed to have a real problem with FDR because of the racism of the American people in the 1930's? I guess I would - using your stellar logic.

                  How far back are you going to go?

                  Since there's still plenty of racism going on today, so I guess I should have a real problem with #44 also?

                  During FDR's terms and until 1952 you folks were loud and still wrong as a $3 bill but you had no power to F things up/slow things down as you do today.

                  Thanks a million.
                  Like I said TL I understand history, something you truly lack.
                  Hell you can't even understand that it's not just D.&R. there really are people who don't belong to either party, in fact there are more of us then there are in either party.
                  Read the article from the CATO institute.

                  How far back are you going to go?
                  How far back do you want to go?
                  You're the one always going on about how great FDR's programs where, not me.
                  If you think programs that harmed minorities where great, that says way more about you then it does about me.
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                  • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
                    Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

                    Like I said TL I understand history, something you truly lack.
                    Hell you can't even understand that it's not just D.&R. there really are people who don't belong to either party, in fact there are more of us then there are in either party.
                    Read the article from the CATO institute.

                    How far back do you want to go?
                    You're the one always going on about how great FDR's programs where, not me.
                    If you think programs that harmed minorities where great, that says way more about you then it does about me.
                    There Thom goes talking about me again!


                    Terra
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                  • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
                    Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

                    Like I said TL I understand history, something you truly lack.
                    Hell you can't even understand that it's not just D.&R. there really are people who don't belong to either party, in fact there are more of us then there are in either party.
                    Read the article from the CATO institute.

                    How far back do you want to go?

                    You're the one always going on about how great FDR's programs where, not me.

                    If you think programs that harmed minorities where great, that says way more about you then it does about me.

                    Once again,

                    Am I supposed to dislike FDR because of what racist assholes on the ground did with some/all of his programs?

                    The article is interesting but its intents are clear - to knock FDR down a peg or two and the Cato Institute is entitled to their opinion.

                    The article is also quite sloppy when it mentions the Wagner Act of 1935 and claims Booker T. Washington, Marcus Garvy and W.E.B. Dubois spoke against it when in fact Booker T. Washington was dead in 1915 and Marcus Garvy was deported in 1927.

                    And lots of people especially around here who claim to be independent may be that...

                    ... when it comes to social or even environmental issues as they mix and match attitudes/policies according to their personal values, likes and dislikes - but they - ...

                    ...like yourself...

                    ...follow the GOP on economic issues almost point for point and especially on all the most important points - and I will repeat again...

                    This country will never regain its former lofty economic status as long as you and your economic philosophy are holding things up and slowing things down no matter how independent you claim you are.
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                    • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
                      Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

                      Once again,

                      Am I supposed to dislike FDR because of what racist assholes on the ground did with some/all of his programs?

                      The article is interesting but its intents are clear - to knock FDR down a peg or two and the Cato Institute is entitled to their opinion.

                      And lots of people especially around here who claim to be independent may be that...

                      ... when it comes to social or even environmental issues as they mix and match attitudes/policies according to their personal values, likes and dislikes - but they - ...

                      ...like yourself...

                      ...follow the GOP on economic issues almost point for point and especially on all the most important points - and I will repeat again...

                      This country will never regain its former lofty economic status as long as you and your economic philosophy are holding things up and slowing things down no matter how independent you claim you are.
                      I'm going to have to call you on that one, TL.

                      How on earth can you possibly know what my economic beliefs and preferences are and whether they line up with the GOP point for point?

                      Perhaps you should get involved in the psychic thread and say you are psychic so that I can boldly proclaim that I do not believe in them!!


                      Terra
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                      • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
                        Originally Posted by MissTerraK View Post

                        I'm going to have to call you on that one, TL.

                        How on earth can you possibly know what my economic beliefs and preferences are and whether they line up with the GOP point for point?

                        Perhaps you should get involved in the psychic thread and say you are psychic so that I can boldly proclaim that I do not believe in them!!


                        Terra
                        Did I mention you by name?

                        If not, what on Earth are you talking about?
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                        • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
                          Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

                          Did I mention you by name?

                          If not, what on Earth are you talking about?
                          Okay, concentrate on the flow of conversation here, Okay?

                          Thom said:

                          there really are people who don't belong to either party, in fact there are more of us then there are in either party.
                          In which I replied with the above quoted portion bolded:

                          There Thom goes talking about me again!
                          To which you responded:

                          And lots of people especially around here who claim to be independent may be that...

                          ... when it comes to social or even environmental issues as they mix and match attitudes/policies according to their personal values, likes and dislikes - but they - ...

                          ...like yourself...

                          ...follow the GOP on economic issues almost point for point and especially on all the most important points - and I will repeat again...
                          See how easy it was to follow that? I'm not some cute little bimbo with half a brain, you know. I do know how to read, follow chains of thought and progress of conversations as well as read in between the lines.

                          Back stepping and playing the confusion card never works with me.


                          Terra
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                          • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
                            Originally Posted by MissTerraK View Post

                            Okay, concentrate on the flow of conversation here, Okay?

                            Thom said:



                            In which I replied with the above quoted portion bolded:



                            To which you responded:



                            See how easy it was to follow that? I'm not some cute little bimbo with half a brain, you know. I do know how to read, follow chains of thought and progress of conversations as well as read in between the lines.

                            Back stepping and playing the confusion card never works with me.


                            Terra
                            I challenge you to take my little economic position test. Let's see just how independent you are on economic issues OK?
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                            • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
                              Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

                              I challenge you to take my little economic position test. Let's see just how independent you are on economic issues OK?
                              Ha! Hand it over, Baby!


                              Terra
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                              • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
                                Originally Posted by MissTerraK View Post

                                Ha! Hand it over, Baby!


                                Terra
                                Ok, give me some time to locate it. It has about 10-11 positions.

                                Please check back soon.
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                      • Profile picture of the author ThomM
                        Originally Posted by MissTerraK View Post

                        I'm going to have to call you on that one, TL.

                        How on earth can you possibly know what my economic beliefs and preferences are and whether they line up with the GOP point for point?

                        Perhaps you should get involved in the psychic thread and say you are psychic so that I can boldly proclaim that I do not believe in them!!


                        Terra
                        He's got a little quiz he gives you and if you don't answer all the questions the way he wants he says you are in bootstep with the GOP.
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                        • Profile picture of the author ThomM
                          The article is also quite sloppy when it mentions the Wagner Act of 1935 and claims Booker T. Washington, Marcus Garvy and W.E.B. Dubois spoke against it when in fact Booker T. Washington was dead in 1915 and Marcus Garvy was deported in 1927.
                          Actually it's more like your reading and comprehension skills are a little sloppy.
                          From the article.
                          By giving labor unions the monopoly power to exclusively represent employees in a workplace, the Wagner Act had the effect of excluding blacks, since the dominant unions discriminated against blacks. The Wagner Act had originally been drafted with a provision prohibiting racial discrimination. But the American Federation of Labor successfully lobbied against it, and it was dropped. AFL unions used their new power, granted by the Wagner Act, to exclude blacks on a large scale. Booker T. Washington, W.E.B. DuBois, and Marcus Garvey were all critical of compulsory unionism.
                          It doesn't say Booker T. was against the Wagner Act, it says he was critical of compulsory unionism.
                          Maybe you should read up on Mr. Washington.
                          There's a glitch in the system that won't let me copy and paste so read the article, His views on unions is in the 11th paragraph.
                          By the way his views are very, very similar to mine. I also believe that economic self-determination is a road to racial equality. In fact every bold sentence on that page I agree with.
                          Profiles in Greatness: Booker T. Washington | SUCCESS Magazine | What Achievers Read
                          He was easily one of the most powerful African-American men of the late 19th century, demonstrating the ability to bring money to causes and people he cared about as well as jobs to blacks who might otherwise remain insufficiently employed. While many black leaders of the time urged African-American workers to join trade unions, Washington demurred. He felt the trade unions were often more racist than the employers themselves and urged black workers to garner the respect of their bosses first. - See more at: Profiles in Greatness: Booker T. Washington | SUCCESS Magazine | What Achievers Read
                          I guess C&P did work.
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                        • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
                          Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

                          He's got a little quiz he gives you and if you don't answer all the questions the way he wants he says you are in bootstep with the GOP.
                          Actually I don't care how the questions are answered.

                          I don't even ask a question except to ask folks to point out which economic positions they disagree with.
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                          • Profile picture of the author ThomM
                            Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

                            Actually I don't care how the questions are answered.

                            I don't even ask a question except to ask folks to point out which economic positions they disagree with.
                            Here's why I find that amusing.
                            You can believe this or not, but I've never put a whole lot of thought into economic positions for the country. I really have no reason to.
                            I'll read about what's going on and briefly think of pros and cons and that's about it.
                            If a politician says something that sounds good, I do the same.
                            The truth is I know that what I think about policies doesn't matter until election day. Then I research all the candidates from all the parties that I can vote for and based on what I can learn I make my choices.
                            In local elections I'm probably evenly split between D and R, the independent guy is usually one of them.
                            On the federal level I usually look for an independent or third party for legislators. In 10 presidential elections I voted D for the first 7 and third party for the last three.
                            I'm telling you all that to clear up a couple things. 1. You don't really know my economics on a country level, because I really don't have any/ I think I have some good ideas, but that's about as far as it goes.
                            2. I really am an independent voter. I always look at the person and not the party. If the D is someone I like I vote for them if it's an R, well I don't know what I'd do I never voted for one for president before
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              • Profile picture of the author Hopeless Bromantic
                Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

                I certainly would have, but then I understand American History.
                You may understand it analytically, but what you're overlooking is that without the success of FDR's agenda, there would have been a real chance for a communist revolution. People truly did feel that desperate. Today's average redneck isn't even close to as badly off economically.
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                • Profile picture of the author ThomM
                  Originally Posted by Hopeless Bromantic View Post

                  You may understand it analytically, but what you're overlooking is that without the success of FDR's agenda, there would have been a real chance for a communist revolution. People truly did feel that desperate. Today's average redneck isn't even close to as badly off economically.
                  No but many minorities still are. His programs only helped the economy and even that is debatable. In reality WWII did more to end the depression then anything FDR did.
                  If by success you mean putting minorities out of work and displacing them, then yes his policies where a great success.
                  Only when the federal government imposed rationing, recruited 6 million defense workers (including women and African Americans), drafted 6 million soldiers, and ran massive deficits to fight World War II did the Great Depression finally end.The Great Depression (1929-1939)
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                  • Profile picture of the author Hopeless Bromantic
                    Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

                    No but many minorities still are. His programs only helped the economy and even that is debatable. In reality WWII did more to end the depression then anything FDR did.
                    Given that another WWII is not a possibility, the U.S. had better come up with another proactive economic plan, instead of the "invisible hand" nonsense that the Cato Institute and other, um, independents espouse.
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                    • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
                      Originally Posted by Hopeless Bromantic View Post

                      Given that another WWII is not a possibility, the U.S. had better come up with another proactive economic plan, instead of the "invisible hand" nonsense that the Cato Institute and other, um, independents espouse.
                      Unfortunately Thom's economic philosophy will never help the nation recover to its former middle class glory - never.
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                    • Profile picture of the author ThomM
                      Originally Posted by Hopeless Bromantic View Post

                      Given that another WWII is not a possibility, the U.S. had better come up with another proactive economic plan, instead of the "invisible hand" nonsense that the Cato Institute and other, um, independents espouse.
                      I agree. Despite what TL thinks, I don't really have an economic plan. What makes things even harder these days is both sides say one thing, do another, and then blame the other side when it doesn't work.
                      I will say this. If I did have a plan and it was used I would have two stipulations in it. First it should be looked at with a critical eye and if it works fine. Second. If it isn't working, then change it.
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                      • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
                        Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

                        I agree. Despite what TL thinks, I don't really have an economic plan. What makes things even harder these days is both sides say one thing, do another, and then blame the other side when it doesn't work.

                        I will say this. If I did have a plan and it was used I would have two stipulations in it. First it should be looked at with a critical eye and if it works fine. Second. If it isn't working, then change it.
                        You may not have a plan but you do agree with the GOP on a bunch economic positions that are harmful to the creation and maintenance of a large prosperous American middle class.

                        That both sides stuff you dish out from time to time is cute as a diversion.
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          • Profile picture of the author SteveJohnson
            Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

            ...nonsensical yada yada
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      • Profile picture of the author SteveJohnson
        Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

        Well, If you are talking about Obama compared to Roosevelt, Roosevelt is consistantly ranked in the top three of our Presidents, so not that many Presidents compare well to him, however Obama has been ranked in the top 15.

        "A 2010 Siena poll of 238 Presidential scholars found that former president George W. Bush was ranked 39th out of 43, with poor ratings in handling of the economy, communication, ability to compromise, foreign policy accomplishments, and intelligence. Meanwhile, the current president, Barack Obama was ranked 15th out of 43, with high ratings for imagination, communication ability and intelligence and a low rating for background (family, education and experience)."

        Historical rankings of Presidents of the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
        ROFLMAO! That's a true coffee-spitter, thanks
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        • Profile picture of the author ThomM
          Originally Posted by SteveJohnson View Post

          ROFLMAO! That's a true coffee-spitter, thanks
          Steve Siena is just across the river from me. It's basically a liberal college in a liberal state that conducts liberal polls.
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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    That "healthcare website" was POORLY designed from the getgo! Let's forget about how the front end had NO logic to speak of. Let's FORGET about how the spanish site wasn't even done by people knowing the language. Let's FORGET about the "ipsom lorem, etc..." garbage! HECK, let's even forget that they supposedly didn't know about these problems until october, And used a FOREIGN company with a RECORD of failure for similar sites.

    They could EASILY have had someone work with the IRS and create an API to handle verification, registration, and subsidies, before they even decided how the front end would LOOK! Last I heard, they STILL didn't have that part done!!!!!!!

    But I think they are really trying the cloward piven strategy.

    But YEAH! The wars the US WON were NOT fought by government plans, etc... They were fought by ideas and resources created by PRIVATE industry. And the country saw a reason and SACRIFICED!!!! WWII is probably a great example. SO MANY men were fighting the war that they had WOMEN building the weapons! Rosie the Riveter - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    STILL, regarding that website you spoke of? It is NOT the only one, simply the most famous!

    State health care websites are failures too | American Commitment
    vermont
    delaware
    colorado
    oregon
    maryland

    Maryland to Scrap Health Insurance Website - WSJ

    ALL scrapped their websites, or had similar problems!

    GEE! It should have:

    1. A basic registration, which MOST here have done, or have had done!
    2. An API to the IRS to work as the bill specified. This SHOULD be simple.
    3. A vender setup, akin to RSS! AGAIN, MOST here have that! This would work like the google froogle interface.
    4. An HL7 bidirectional interface. v3.x is similar to RSS in that it is XML. This is a standard in the healthcare industry, Medicare and Medicaid SHOULD, and likely DO, use HL7 ALSO! They can be implemented as other vendors.
    5. The insurance company could take it from there, or they could implement one of MANY gateways! AGAIN, people have done that HERE!

    Frankly, I don't see what is so hard. They had, at WORST, about 4 years to do it!!!! It shouldn't even have taken ONE!

    Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author sevemichaelml3
    Good point, politicians back then were probably not worried about receiving stock options like nancy Pollossi, therefore they have more time to get things done.
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  • Profile picture of the author Ron Lafuddy
    Originally Posted by SteveJohnson View Post

    During the 3-1/2 years of World War 2 that started with the Japanese bombing of Pearl Harbor in December 1941 and ended with the surrenders of Germany and Japan in 1945, the U.S. produced
    • 22 aircraft carriers
    • 147 merchant ships converted to carriers
    • 8 battleships
    • 48 cruisers
    • 349 destroyers
    • 420 destroyer escorts
    • 203 submarines
    • 35,000 landing craft
    • 34 million tons of merchant ships
    • 99,000 fighter aircraft
    • 97,000 bombers
    • 23,000 transport aircraft
    • 57,000 training aircraft
    • 173,477 tanks and self-propelled guns
    • 257,390 artillery pieces
    • 105,055 mortars
    • 2,679,840 machine guns
    • 2,382,311 military trucks
    We put 16.1 million men in uniform in the various armed services, invaded Africa, invaded Sicily and Italy, won the battle for the Atlantic, planned and executed D-Day, marched across the Pacific and Europe, developed the atomic bomb, and ultimately conquered Japan and Germany.

    During the almost exact amount of time, we couldn't even get a healthcare web site built.
    Steve,

    The Healthcare deal is pure government. A complete boondoggle.

    Regarding WWII, the armament listed was built by private industry. The invasion and war efforts were conducted by the military. Both of these groups have a history of success in their respective fields.

    Can't say the same for the government, and the despicable cretins we have for representatives.
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    • Profile picture of the author SteveJohnson
      Originally Posted by Ron Lafuddy View Post

      Steve,

      The Healthcare deal is pure government. A complete boondoggle.

      Regarding WWII, the armament listed was built by private industry. The invasion and war efforts were conducted by the military. Both of these groups have a history of success in their respective fields.

      Can't say the same for the government, and the despicable cretins we have for representatives.
      Exactly.

      A bit of a lesson there, if people would open their eyes and see it.
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      • Profile picture of the author Ron Lafuddy
        Originally Posted by SteveJohnson View Post

        Exactly.

        A bit of a lesson there, if people would open their eyes and see it.
        Their eyes are opening more each day. We're seeing pushback with regards to drones, illegal checkpoints, searches and the like. The internet is helping, as people discuss standing up for themselves and not rolling over

        The weapon of choice, is video. The goons can't keep up with the quantity of videos being posted online by law abiding citizens. Video is leveling the playing field.

        We have a long ways to go. The administration before this one did severe damage to our personal rights and freedoms. I'd like to think we've turned a corner though.
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    • Profile picture of the author hardraysnight
      Originally Posted by Ron Lafuddy View Post

      Steve,

      The Healthcare deal is pure government. A complete boondoggle.

      Regarding WWII, the armament listed was built by private industry. The invasion and war efforts were conducted by the military. Both of these groups have a history of success in their respective fields.

      Can't say the same for the government, and the despicable cretins we have for representatives.
      vietnam, somalia, afghanistan, iraq
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      • Profile picture of the author ThomM
        Originally Posted by hardraysnight View Post

        vietnam, somalia, afghanistan, iraq
        None of those where declared wars as defined by the constitution
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        • Profile picture of the author Hopeless Bromantic
          Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

          None of those where declared wars as defined by the constitution
          And all of that was just fine with the Bush family.
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          • Profile picture of the author SteveJohnson
            Originally Posted by Hopeless Bromantic View Post

            And all of that was just fine with the Bush family.
            And Clinton, and especially Obama.

            Your point was?

            Oh - you had no point. Just more of the same.
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            • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
              Originally Posted by SteveJohnson View Post

              Your point was?
              Oh and what was your point? Do you really find the so called observation interesting? I find it hard to believe anyone would. I mean, comparing a world war to making a website. Only wing nut Obama haters would find that remotely interesting. By the way, the web site is working fine now.
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              • Profile picture of the author SteveJohnson
                Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

                Oh and what was your point? Do you really find the so called observation interesting? I find it hard to believe anyone would. I mean, comparing a world war to making a website. Only wing nut Obama haters would find that remotely interesting. By the way, the web site is working fine now.
                Yes, I really do find it interesting, and it has nothing to do with Big O, but present-day governmental incompetence in general, no matter who is in charge.

                You may find it hard to believe that anyone would be interested in knowing how well our government actually works - or doesn't - but a lot of people are. Other people, the head-up-their-butt Big O lovers who think he craps roses, don't care.

                The website is not 'working fine now'. There are still massive data sharing issues that are plaguing providers. There is still no mechanism for enrollees to correct essential data. The whole endeavor was, and still is, fodder for a modern Keystone Cops movie.
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              • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
                Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

                Oh and what was your point? Do you really find the so called observation interesting? I find it hard to believe anyone would. I mean, comparing a world war to making a website.

                Only wing nut Obama haters would find that remotely interesting. By the way, the web site is working fine now.

                Tim,

                On top of that...

                ... Steve Johnson's economic philosophy stinks for America - ...

                ...that is...

                ... if you're interested in generating a society in which opportunity flourishes along with a large prosperous middle class - ...

                ... it logistically can't happen with Steve's economic philosophy.


                But...

                ... if you're looking to create an America in which the middle class is a shadow of it's former self, retirements will be shittier than they are now, mobility depends on your birth, a large pool of unemployed people in the society, a next generation who doesn't expect to do better than their parents and of course the wealthy and large corporations doing whatever they want, whenever they want - at the expense of the average American standard of living...

                ...Steve's economic philosophy would be perfect to accomplish that task.


                Some People...

                While some people are trying to turn the economic orientation of the society back towards the middle class - as it was in America's economic glory days, people like Steve and his kindred sprits are fighting it tooth and nail and are simply slowing down the recovery.

                Tim,

                A majority of Americans during the 1930's were savvy enough to understand...

                ... that you don't latch on to the party and/or especially the economic philosophy and attitudes that got the country into the mess in the first place because they're not going to get you out of the mess.

                Steve and his friends would have fought FDR tooth and nail also - if they had been living in those days and times because other than the severity of the downturn there is no real difference in what #44 is trying to do and what FDR was trying to do.

                Say Tim...

                I wish Steve and his friends were in the same political position as their kindred spirits were during the 1930s & 1940s.

                They were oh so loud and as wrong as a $3 bill back then also - but had no real power to F things up and slow progress down as they are doing today.


                Bottom Line:

                America will never return to its former middle class economic glory with Steve's economic philosophy - logistically it can not happen.


                Another Very Interesting Observation...

                Another very interesting observation is a bunch of small business people fighting for a economic society in which the amount of money/assets floating around within non wealthy part of the society - slowly but surely diminishes.

                That's basically what you have going on from some quarters here at the WF and that's what we'll get with Steve's economic philosophy for America.

                You would think most small business people would be all for a bustling, thriving huge middle class with lots of excess money to spend - in order to be able to get some of that money coming their way.

                But instead they have opted to fight for the opposite which lends me to believe they really don't understand American economics or the end result of the philosophy they embrace and fight for.

                Way to get on the right side of American history Steve & friends.

                Thanks Steve and friends!
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          • Profile picture of the author ThomM
            Originally Posted by Hopeless Bromantic View Post

            And all of that was just fine with the Bush family.
            So what's your point. None of them where fine with me.
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            • Profile picture of the author Hopeless Bromantic
              Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

              So what's your point. None of them where fine with me.
              Good for you. I've seen too many Bush apologists hiding behind the doctrine of less government (how's that for ironic?), so forgive me if I'm a trifle suspicious.
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              • Profile picture of the author ThomM
                Originally Posted by Hopeless Bromantic View Post

                Good for you. I've seen too many Bush apologists hiding behind the doctrine of less government (how's that for ironic?), so forgive me if I'm a trifle suspicious.
                I can understand.
                It's nothing new with me.
                When Bush was president it was assumed I was a Liberal because I constantly disagreed with his policies.
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      • Profile picture of the author Ron Lafuddy
        Originally Posted by hardraysnight View Post

        vietnam, somalia, afghanistan, iraq
        You forgot one, Korea.

        All "political" conflicts, run by politicians, controlling the military effort.
        The U.S. military, when left to it's own devices, gets the job done.
        Unfortunately that wasn't the case in the conflicts mentioned.
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  • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
    Originally Posted by SteveJohnson View Post

    During the 3-1/2 years of World War 2 that started with the Japanese bombing of Pearl Harbor in December 1941 and ended with the surrenders of Germany and Japan in 1945
    I know this isn't your point but in case anyone else makes the same mistake I did when I saw that, I think everyone should know that Steve is well aware the second world war, which lasted for 6 years, began in 1939 when Hitler invaded Poland.

    I know what you mean Steve, you're pointing out what was achieved by America in production in such a short space of time, I just didn't want some smart arse to come along thinking you thought WW2 began with Pearl Harbour.

    Like I did, initially.

    Politics aside, it always astounds me the level of production they achieved in those days during a war.
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  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
    Banned
    Originally Posted by SteveJohnson View Post

    During the almost exact amount of time, we couldn't even get a healthcare web site built.
    Hurray! That means that the US is sooo much better at war mongering than building websites. Yawn.
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    • Profile picture of the author SteveJohnson
      Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

      Hurray! That means that the US is sooo much better at war mongering than building websites. Yawn.
      I don't completely disagree, but I don't know that I'd classify WWII as 'war mongering'.
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