not sure how i feel about this ...

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My kid got in his first real fight at school yesterday. ( he is almost 5 )
It was with an older, bigger boy ... over a toy. The kid kept taking it
from my boy and my son just kept taking it back. Then the older boy
picked up a different large toy and whacked my kid in the face with it.

My kid jumped on him and kept punching him in the face until the
teachers pulled him off. From what I was told it was pretty brutal
especially since were talking about a 5 and 7 year old.

Part of me is proud he stood up for himself ... double proud because
he is so young and showing no fear.

The other half is ... o shit, this cant be good.

any way ... here is a look at baby rocky after his first bout.
Two black eyes and a semi fat lip.

  • Profile picture of the author MikeAmbrosio
    Ouch. Sorry he had to go through that.

    Unfortunately conflict is a part of life. On the one hand you can't shelter your kids against everything, but on the other you would hope they could be kept from this stuff a little longer.

    As I am sure you probably already did, a fatherly conversation would go a long way. You know - don't be a bully, but always stick up for yourself. Violence is a last resort if you need to defend yourself, etc. This could turn out to be a good lesson.
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  • Profile picture of the author Dan Riffle
    What Mike said. Just make sure that you don't make your son afraid to defend himself.

    That said, it sounds like you son has some pretty solid steel in him. Might be a good time for martial arts lessons from a quality instructor.
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  • Profile picture of the author jamespitt
    He is obviously very tough for his age and thats a good thing. Get your boy to learn some martial arts lessons: its very good discipline, the skills will help him to defend himself when need arises, it's a great sport in itself. Martial arts also teaches mental toughness and self control.
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Ken - your kid just earned a rep. He wailed on a bully. That's going to go a long way in keeping other bullies off him. If he hadn't defended himself, that kid might have tormented him throughout school......and maybe others would have joined in. I wouldn't worry about it. If he shows the tendency toward undue aggression, that's when you need to start worrying.
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  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
    Banned
    I don't know. I think I would throw in some lessons on what is self defense and when it is not, as in when enough is enough. It sounds like he continued maybe longer than was necessary. Just my thoughts.
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    • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
      Ken,

      I'm with Sal on this one.

      We taught my son to keep his hands to himself and never hit anyone.

      Then the bullying started and he was being tormented constantly. When his dad and I tried to deal with the bullying through the proper channels, we got nowhere, so his dad told him to haul off and deck him one and once he laid out a bully, the others of the pack would scatter.

      My son refused and told his dad that hitting was wrong and that he should keep his hands to himself. He had to tell him it was OK if he got in trouble at school, he wouldn't at home.

      Finally, his dad got through explaining that being an aggressor and self defense were two different things and my son decked a kid who pushed him and caused him to fall backwards. When the principal called, hubby just said, He did? Awesome! I told him to since you wouldn't do anything about it! Haha!

      As long as he knows the difference between self defense and being the aggressor, I think things will be fine.

      By the way, I'm proud of him too!

      Terra
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    • Profile picture of the author kenmichaels
      Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

      I don't know. I think I would throw in some lessons on what is self defense and when it is not, as in when enough is enough. It sounds like he continued maybe longer than was necessary. Just my thoughts.
      From the way the teachers described it ... that is exactly correct
      ... and that is the part that worried me. I'm kinda over it for now
      until I see the video ... Then I make a judgment on if its a real issue.
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      • Profile picture of the author kenmichaels
        Originally Posted by Dan Riffle View Post

        Might be a good time for martial arts lessons from a quality instructor.
        Originally Posted by jamespitt View Post

        Get your boy to learn some martial arts lessons: its very good discipline, the skills will help him to defend himself when need arises, it's a great sport in itself. Martial arts also teaches mental toughness and self control.
        You guys might be onto something ... For the last year he has said he wants
        to learn kung fu, instead for now hes getting swimming lessons, piano lessons
        and playing on a soccer league.

        Except for swimming those are his choices. Maybe its time for him to
        make another choice. Meaning drop soccer or piano for kung fu.
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        • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
          Originally Posted by kenmichaels View Post

          Except for swimming those are his choices. Maybe its time for him to
          make another choice. Meaning drop soccer or piano for kung fu.
          Good idea, but not for the self defense. It will teach him how to get along with a bully better, and avoid the confrontations in the first place.
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        • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
          Originally Posted by kenmichaels View Post

          Except for swimming those are his choices. Maybe its time for him to
          make another choice. Meaning drop soccer or piano for kung fu.
          Ken;

          If you're looking for a martial arts instructor (the actual art isn't important), make sure you watch a class or two. How the instructor teaches is far more important than the martial art he teaches.

          I had a long conversation with my second Kung Fu instructor. I had already been training for over 20 years. Here is the gist of that conversation;

          The best benefit of serious martial arts training, is that you avoid confrontation in the first place. Why don't you get into fights? Because the other person isn't a threat.

          Have you ever seen two animals fight? They see each other as a threat. Do you see lions fight with foxes? No. Why? Because the fox isn't a threat to the lion.

          With advanced training, you gain the confidence that a confrontation isn't necessary. You have nothing to prove. You don't raise your voice in anger, because the other person isn't a threat to you.

          And the most profitable thing a martial arts instructor can teach you, is how to avoid confrontations in the first place. Don't go where they occur. Never threaten another person. Never talk louder than they do (you'll be perceived as the aggressor) .
          Learn to talk your way out of fights. Nobody ever wins a fight. The winner is the one less damaged. And later in life, the one who goes to jail. Yea.

          This may all be too sophisticated for a little kid. But one way to guarantee that you'll get beat up, is ...after 4 lessons in karate....showing other kids what you can do.

          Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

          I felt very sorry for her. She had a terrible life ... and I mean really terrible.
          A lot of bullies do. And their dad is usually a bully. It is sad.
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      • Profile picture of the author travlinguy
        Originally Posted by kenmichaels View Post

        From the way the teachers described it ... that is exactly correct
        ... and that is the part that worried me. I'm kinda over it for now
        until I see the video ... Then I make a judgment on if its a real issue.
        Even if the video shows your little guy went overboard, only he knows how much shit he tolerated before letting loose. And when he got the chance, he let the bully know enough was enough. I'm a pretty mild mannered guy and was pretty mellow as a kid too.

        I took a lot of crap from a bully when I was 8 or so. I was telling my friends (talking out my ass, actually) what I was going to do the next time the bully started up with me. Well, I got my chance about 10 minutes later when he showed up and one of my friends mentioned how I was just talking about fighting back.

        So the kid started pushing me and I just ripped him up. Didn't know I had it in me. Three kids had to pull me off of him. Even the bully's big brother came up to me and gave me a slap on the back saying I'd taken crap from his little punk (his words) brother too long. I think that was one of the most important days in my young life.

        People can only take so much and then sometimes they snap.
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      • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
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        Originally Posted by kenmichaels View Post

        From the way the teachers described it ... that is exactly correct
        ... and that is the part that worried me. I'm kinda over it for now
        until I see the video ... Then I make a judgment on if its a real issue.
        You should be able to tell after you see the video for yourself. It's an important lesson to learn, when enough is enough. Could save a person from manslaughter charges later in life if they learn what is self defense and what is more than needed.

        I was harassed by two bullies in high school who used to follow me from school every day and terrorize me by throwing rocks at me until I finally made it into my home. It was a rough end of town and these two were rough kids. One day, I finally blew. I threw my books down, twirled around, grabbed the weakest of the two (who was the follower really and not the leader) by the hair and swung her head down to the ground and her skull hit the bottom cement step of a doorway.

        I was really afraid that I had seriously hurt her. I hadn't intended for her head to hit the cement step. I just wanted the crap to stop. Fortunately, she was alright.

        As it turns out with this particular group, what I did was a badge of honor. The leader, Judy, who was feared by all at the school, told all the bullies at school to leave me alone or deal with her. We became friends ... sort of. I felt very sorry for her. She had a terrible life ... and I mean really terrible.
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  • Profile picture of the author hardraysnight
    just part of growing up

    i would be more worried if it didnt happen

    the next lesson is how to lose
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      Ken -

      I wouldn't worry about it at all. You don't want your kid to be aggressive - but kids need to stand up for themselves sometimes. Be glad he had the guts to do it.
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  • Profile picture of the author travlinguy
    Good for your boy. I think, as others have said, that the only thing you need to do is make it clear that there's a time and place for everything and fighting is almost always the last resort.
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  • Profile picture of the author Joe Mobley
    Ken,

    Originally Posted by kenmichaels View Post


    Part of me is proud he stood up for himself ... double proud because
    he is so young and showing no fear.
    As you should be. I'm proud of him and for you!


    Originally Posted by kenmichaels View Post


    The other half is ... o shit, this cant be good.
    Your other half is wrong. Knock that off. (In all respectfulness.)

    Originally Posted by kenmichaels View Post

    any way ... here is a look at baby rocky after his first bout.
    Two black eyes and a semi fat lip.

    Joe Mobley
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    • Profile picture of the author AprilCT
      Send the other parents the bill for the doctor visit. If they get pi$$y about it, maybe take it further consulting an attorney. Obviously, your little guy wasn't being protected where he was, and the other innocent kids aren't either. Your son might have saved some other kids from being hurt by this bully.

      I'm very glad to hear your son is a very tough little guy against an older and obviously larger bully. I remember being a fighter when I was little as well. It only gets worse if you are afraid.

      I agree with Sal that is time to take him to training so he can defend himself. My husband saw to it that our boys got trained young. The older one had a rep in elementary school he was the wrong one to bully.

      Good for your hubby Terra, for telling off the school. Sometimes it pays to be tough with these idiots and their stupid, illogical rules.

      I assume your kid's troubles were a long time ago, too. But even with my kids, the schools had a no holds barred butthole agenda that any participants, whether the bully or the one being bullied were all in trouble. The lunacy in the school admin is even worse now, and that is so aggravating.
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  • Profile picture of the author seomaster5
    Awwww it could have been serious injury but thanks to almighty Allah he is safe and yes you are right parents must be proud when their kids takes a stand for themselves
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  • You're lucky to have such a brave boy. And he's so cute, despite the black eye.

    Just curious, what happened to the other kid and his parents? Did they talk to you? Did you tell them about their son's behavior? If their son does this to your boy, maybe he also does this to other kids. Aren't his parents doing something about their son's behavior?
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    • Profile picture of the author Joe Mobley
      Good points John.

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    • Profile picture of the author kenmichaels
      Originally Posted by John Jonas Phil VA View Post

      You're lucky to have such a brave boy. And he's so cute, despite the black eye.

      Just curious, what happened to the other kid and his parents? Did they talk to you? Did you tell them about their son's behavior? If their son does this to your boy, maybe he also does this to other kids. Aren't his parents doing something about their son's behavior?

      Originally Posted by AprilCT View Post

      Send the other parents the bill for the doctor visit. If they get pi$ about it, maybe take it further consulting an attorney. Obviously, your little guy wasn't being protected where he was, and the other innocent kids aren't either. Your son might have saved some other kids from being hurt by this bully.

      On Friday there will be a meeting at the school with the teachers
      involved and both sets of parents.

      We also get to watch a video of exactly what happened.
      I am guessing at that time we will find out about consequences, if any.

      This is a private school and one of the reasons we chose it in addition
      to academics is the some of the safety features ... including multiple
      cameras in every area, except of course the bathrooms.

      I did not really think i would ever need to see anything on them.

      Also, I don't think the school did any wrong, I don't think any legal
      action needs to be taken with the parents ... kids fight ...
      I am just surprised mine got into it so dang early. If this happened
      when he was ... I dunno maybe 10 or so, I would not have blinked twice.
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      • Profile picture of the author Kay King
        I wish more parents had your level of common sense, Ken.

        I wonder where we, as adults, decided kids should never have fights. It happens - they don't always get along. As long as it's not a bullying situation - it's not a big problem unless parents and schools make it one.
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    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      Originally Posted by John Jonas Phil VA View Post

      You're lucky to have such a brave boy. And he's so cute, despite the black eye.

      Just curious, what happened to the other kid and his parents? Did they talk to you? Did you tell them about their son's behavior? If their son does this to your boy, maybe he also does this to other kids. Aren't his parents doing something about their son's behavior?
      I don't know if there is a parent in the world that will admit that their kid is a bully.

      I have a friend who is a martial arts instructor. He decided to run a seminar on what to do if your child is a bully. He couldn't get anyone to sign up, because he said that he couldn't get anyone to say that their kid was a bully.

      It's like saying your own kid is ugly.

      And, being a kid that got picked on in school, I can promise you that getting the parents involved...is the last thing you want. A bully, that gets reprimanded by his parent, for being a bully....only has one way to vent that anger. Guess what it is.
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      • Profile picture of the author garyv
        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

        I don't know if there is a parent in the world that will admit that their kid is a bully.
        I think that sometimes parents just don't recognize it. And other times it's simply a matter of perspective. In our world of over political correctness, every normal childhood spat turns into someone having to be the bully.

        For instance, who would be the bully in the OP's story?

        The other kid: "Dad a mean boy kept taking a car I was playing with. I tried to stick up for myself like you taught me, but the boy jumped on me and started punching me in the face until the teacher dragged him off".

        If you are this kid's parent - who would you assume is the bully?

        Personally I think the term is way over-used.
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        • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
          Originally Posted by garyv View Post

          I think that sometimes parents just don't recognize it. And other times it's simply a matter of perspective. In our world of over political correctness, every normal childhood spat turns into someone having to be the bully.

          For instance, who would be the bully in the OP's story?

          The other kid: "Dad a mean boy kept taking a car I was playing with. I tried to stick up for myself like you taught me, but the boy jumped on me and started punching me in the face until the teacher dragged him off".

          If you are this kid's parent - who would you assume is the bully?

          Personally I think the term is way over-used.
          I hadn't thought of that. Yeah, what kid is going to tell his parent "I was threatening this little kid, if he didn't give me his lunch money, and he just hauled off and hit me"?

          Every kid is going to be the victim when he tells the story. Or the Hero.
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          • Profile picture of the author Karen Blundell
            Maybe your son went a little too far, however, I think it is absolutely crucial that kids learn how to defend themselves so I too recommend martial arts instruction for the discipline it teaches.
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