Michael Jackson Tribute Thread - August 1958–June 25-2009

[Trader54]

Originally Posted by MichaelHiles

Trader54, stop trying to ruin their desperate emotional need for hero worship with pesky things like rational thought processes.

This sums it well.

[ptone]

Originally Posted by Trader54

This sums it well.

Nice try, but your desperate emotional need for MJ to be a bad guy is being ruined with pesky things like truth and justice.

Rational thought process requires looking at things from ALL sides. You refuse to do this. I think narrow-minded was the term I used earlier.

[Michael Motley]

Originally Posted by ptone

Nice try, but your desperate emotional need for MJ to be a bad guy is being ruined with pesky things like truth and justice.

Rational thought process requires looking at things from ALL sides. You refuse to do this. I think narrow-minded was the term I used earlier.

Its not a need for him to be a bad guy...he did that all by himself.

[Steven Wagenheim]

I can't believe some of the comments in this thread.

Looks like my list of "never gonna do a JV with these jerks" is going to grow
quite considerably today.

Michael...RIP.

Your music will live on for a long time.

[ptone]

Originally Posted by Michael Motley

Its not a need for him to be a bad guy

Sure it is...you don't like him so he's guilty. You even made up stuff earlier to prove your case. And you refuse to comment on the cases that were brought before him. If you are so confident he's guilty, then tell us how "credible" his accusers were. They weren't...you know it...and you don't want to talk about it...that simple.

Furthermore, I don't have a need for hero worship either as was mentioned before. I'm just a really big fan of justice.

I am still absolutely FASCINATED by the fact that NOBODY that has convicted MJ in their mind (because he wasn't in a court of law) will discuss the merits of each case. It really is quite fascinating that he is guilty simply because you don't like him.

[jonnoryan]

Originally Posted by Marian Berghes

Stop it with the molested sht already...how do you know he was guilty? do you have some special powers or something that the rest of us don;t know about?

Just because the man went to court for something it doesn't mean that he did it, he was found innocent and thats that...maybe he did it maybe he didn't, you don;t know for sure...your only thinking what the media put in your head.

Most you that say that probably seen 1 or 2 videos or read 2-3 articles about it and now your yelling "he's guilty",

im just sick of you people that even when a man dies you can only look at the bad things of the story.

Well Said . I guess you guys over in the USA should do away with the court rooms altogether becuase it seems to me that when someone is put on trial , most of you actually presume he is guilty. So, why bother with the expense of the court room , just send them down for life.

Seriously, just think for a minute. The child molesting crap was highlighted in a big way when he did that infamous interview with Martin Bashir . He appeared on screen holding that con artist, sorry I meant boy's hand . Now, if you were a molestor, the VERY LAST thing you would do is been seen been affectionate (when I say been affectionate, I mean holding hands ) with a boy on live tv in front of millions of people. If you were a cold blooded murderer would you been seen on TV with a gun and blood on your hands ?

The man was a musical genuis but a child at heart . He had a the mind of a child, that was his only crime and I guess newspapers and many others made millions by exploting this and turning it into something very sorid .

RIP MJ

[Michael Motley]

Originally Posted by ptone

Sure it is...you don't like him so he's guilty. You even made up stuff earlier to prove your case. And you refuse to comment on the cases that were brought before him. If you are so confident he's guilty, then tell us how "credible" his accusers were. They weren't...you know it...and you don't want to talk about it...that simple.

Furthermore, I don't have a need for hero worship either as was mentioned before. I'm just a really big fan of justice.

I am still absolutely FASCINATED by the fact that NOBODY that has convicted MJ in their mind (because he wasn't in a court of law) will discuss the merits of each case. It really is quite fascinating that he is guilty simply because you don't like him.

I dont have to prove my case of him being accused of molesting children. The courts have done that already. Why did they do that? because he's got children in his bed.

hey, how old are you? Are you over 40ish? do you have sleep overs with the neighborhood children in your bed? No? Why not?

How about your parents...do they have sleepovers with the neighborhood kids in their bed? No? Well why not? I mean theres nothing wrong with it right?

You dont pay people to go away when you aren't guilty. You dont get accused of something not once, but twice, and by multiple people when you're not doing anything

And if you are someone that is as high profile as mj, with no doubt an army of handlers around him telling him what to do, and you get accused of something like that, then have that army of handlers probably telling you 'hey, dont do that again or there will be trouble', yet you do it again AND tell it to the world on international TV and can't fathom why people have an issue with it, there's a good possibility you probably have a problem.

I dont hate him one way or the other, I just hate seeing people get all teary eyed over him because he's dead and start talking about what a great person he was. 'Great' people dont have multiple allegations of child molestation. sorry.

[jonnoryan]

You dont pay people to go away when you aren't guilty.

You DO when you know that No matter how untrue the story is, it will still damage your career

You DO when you get people like you who say' hmmn, someone is pointing a finger at him, he must be guilty .

[Michael Motley]

Because paying people is better than finger pointing at proving your innocence?

[GarrieWilson]

Originally Posted by Michael Motley

Because paying people is better than finger pointing at proving your innocence?

Court doesn't prove innocence. It proves not guilty. We are all innocent until proven guilty.

To bad you can't grasp simple concepts because of your media biased beliefs.

[Michael Motley]

If we were all really innocent until proven guilty, you wouldnt wait for your court date behind bars.

[ptone]

Originally Posted by Michael Motley

I dont have to prove my case of him being accused of molesting children. The courts have done that already. Why did they do that? because he's got children in his bed.

This is the second time you have made up the facts to prove your case. He was charged twice with charges of child molestation. The first time he paid the family to drop the case (after the Dad asked him to). They did, so it never went to court. The second (and only other) time, the courts found him "not guilty." The courts never ever did what you just said they did.

Originally Posted by Michael Motley

hey, how old are you? Are you over 40ish? do you have sleep overs with the neighborhood children in your bed? No? Why not?

How about your parents...do they have sleepovers with the neighborhood kids in their bed? No? Well why not? I mean theres nothing wrong with it right?

I stated earlier that he was a weird person. As I mentioned earlier, he did not have a childhood...his Dad forced him to train and perform all the time instead of doing what normal children do. Because of this childhood deprivation, he continued to live his life as a child even after adulthood. Not normal, I know that, but that is what happened. Being that children do not molest other children, if he was living as a child, then it is unlikely that he molested other children.

Originally Posted by Michael Motley

You dont pay people to go away when you aren't guilty.

Yes you do if you are filthy rich and can afford it. Sometimes its better for the whole thing to go away than to fight.

Originally Posted by Michael Motley

You dont get accused of something not once, but twice, and by multiple people when you're not doing anything

You do if the accusers are money-hungry-willing-to-do-anything-for-millions-of-dollars kind of people.

Originally Posted by Michael Motley

And if you are someone that is as high profile as mj, with no doubt an army of handlers around him telling him what to do, and you get accused of something like that, then have that army of handlers probably telling you 'hey, dont do that again or there will be trouble', yet you do it again AND tell it to the world on international TV and can't fathom why people have an issue with it, there's a good possibility you probably have a problem.

Assuming he committed the crime...which has not been proven to be the case.

Originally Posted by Michael Motley

I dont hate him one way or the other, I just hate seeing people get all teary eyed over him because he's dead and start talking about what a great person he was. 'Great' people dont have multiple allegations of child molestation. sorry.

I think you do hate him. Otherwise you would look at the credibility of the accusers, which you still refuse to do, and see that maybe they were after something other than justice.

[jonnoryan]

Originally Posted by Michael Motley

Because paying people is better than finger pointing at proving your innocence?

You are winding us all up on this thread are you, or are you totally dumb . How can you prove your innocence with people like you

The courts proved him innocent but people like you believe he is guilty becuase the accusation was made . This is why people pay people . You have just proven than . As I mentioned earlier , drop the court cases. Its very simple, once a person is accused, just send them down. It seems an accusation is good enough for people like you !

[Michael Motley]

If it looks like a duck...acts like a duck...and people call it a duck....


its probably a......

[ptone]

Originally Posted by Michael Motley

If it looks like a duck...acts like a duck...and people call it a duck....


its probably a......

And that's EXACTLY why I don't believe the stories of those that accused MJ.

[GarrieWilson]

Originally Posted by Michael Motley

If we were all really innocent until proven guilty, you wouldnt wait for your court date behind bars.

Everyone doesn't.

Ive had friends/family w/ DUIs, spouse abuse, etc and they were released on their own recogonise.

Murders, rapists, etc. are released with bail. The bail it to help ensure they show up for court. Some are released on very low amounts.

When you make a logical statement, please PM me. I'd hate to miss it.

[Asher]

Duck!



I'm trying to be intelligent but apparently, I don't have the
capability to do so.

I only know I like MJ and I don't believe in whatever the
world says about him.

Asher

[Trader54]

Originally Posted by Michael Motley

If it looks like a duck...acts like a duck...and people call it a duck....


its probably a......

Hey I have a son, I don't let him go over for a sleep over with some 40 yr old guy.

Some people just don't get it and probably never will, your wasting your time.

[Richard A.Cox]

Briefly looking at this thread, I can see why 99% of you aren't making any money online.

[MichaelHiles]

Originally Posted by ptone

Nice try, but your desperate emotional need for MJ to be a bad guy is being ruined with pesky things like truth and justice.

Rational thought process requires looking at things from ALL sides. You refuse to do this. I think narrow-minded was the term I used earlier.

I don't "need" for MJ to be a bad guy.

I already stated earlier that I believe that he's a tragedy really.

But he's certainly also not worthy of all the sycophant fawning hero worship by the masses either.

But people need heros to worship, and have become less and less critical in their choices of idols.

[jonnoryan]

Ptone says it all

I think you do hate him. Otherwise you would look at the credibility of the accusers, which you still refuse to do, and see that maybe they were after something other than justice.

Looks like a duck - is there a special way a molestor looks ?
acts like a duck - He acted the very opposite, a molestor would be concealing their friendships with children in public
people call it a duck- the only people that were calling him a molestor were people who were trying to extract millions of dollars from him . If you thought your neighbour was a molestor, would you send your kid over to his house ???

[Michael Motley]

Originally Posted by jonnoryan

Ptone says it all

I think you do hate him. Otherwise you would look at the credibility of the accusers, which you still refuse to do, and see that maybe they were after something other than justice.

Yes yes...the credibitility of someone who admits to sharing his bed with children while being accused of molesting children is obviously the word the be heeded.

Looks like a duck - is there a special way a molestor looks ?

yeah..they look like a 'friend of the children of the world'

acts like a duck - He acted the very opposite, a molestor would be concealing their friendships with children in public

you mean like by having a huge ranch closed to the public, and inviting them into his bedroom for sleepovers away from mom and dad?

people call it a duck- the only people that were calling him a molestor were people who were trying to extract millions of dollars from him . If you thought your neighbour was a molestor, would you send your kid over to his house ???

No, but look at people in this thread who dont believe the charges, what makes you think people living by him are any less deluded?

[Michael Motley]

Originally Posted by GarrieWilson

Everyone doesn't.

Ive had friends/family w/ DUIs, spouse abuse, etc and they were released on their own recogonise.

Murders, rapists, etc. are released with bail. The bail it to help ensure they show up for court. Some are released on very low amounts.

When you make a logical statement, please PM me. I'd hate to miss it.

read that bolded part.

where were they released from if they were presumed innocent

[ptone]

Originally Posted by Trader54

Hey I have a son, I don't let him go over for a sleep over with some 40 yr old guy.

Some people just don't get it and probably never will, your wasting your time.

That's fine...I wouldn't either! But, the parents of the two accusers sure did, didn't they?

Now that you've admitted that letting your child sleep over with a 40 year old man isn't the wisest thing to do, why don't you elaborate on the behavior of those parents?

[Michael Motley]

Originally Posted by ptone

That's fine...I wouldn't either! But, the parents of the two accusers sure did, didn't they?

Now that you've admitted that letting your child sleep over with a 40 year old man isn't the wisest thing to do, why don't you elaborate on the behavior of those parents?

me! me!..pick me!


i'll take 'deluded fans' for 100 alex!!

[jonnoryan]

Michael .

When you make a logical statement, please PM me. I'd hate to miss it.

Please pm also .

I have work to do.

[MichaelHiles]

Originally Posted by Michael Motley

me! me!..pick me!


i'll take 'deluded fans' for 100 alex!!

Bing... winner.

And there are a hell of a lot of those.

[Michael Motley]

Originally Posted by jonnoryan

yer pickin on my childhood hero. i dont care if he's a kid toucher....yer stupid haw haw

that about cover it?

[ptone]

Originally Posted by Michael Motley

me! me!..pick me!


i'll take 'deluded fans' for 100 alex!!

No one is more deluded than you. You've already made up two different stories that were flat out false. Furthermore, you absolutely refuse to discuss the merits of the case. There is a reason for this...you know the merits of the case cast serious doubt about MJ's guilt.

You want MJ to be guilty and you refuse to see it any other way, no matter the facts. That would be deluded, dude.

[Trader54]

Originally Posted by Richard A.Cox

Briefly looking at this thread, I can see why 99% of you aren't making any money online.

Check this out, and no its not a affiliate link.

The 4-Hour Workweek and Timothy Ferriss

[Michael Motley]

Originally Posted by ptone

No one is more deluded than you. You've already made up two different stories that were flat out false. Furthermore, you absolutely refuse to discuss the merits of the case. There is a reason for this...you know the merits of the case cast serious doubt about MJ's guilt.

You want MJ to be guilty and you refuse to see it any other way, no matter the facts. That would be deluded, dude.

Why would i want mj to be guilty? It doesnt matter to me one way or the other. He's guilty whether i 'want' it or not.

Don't get mad because you've just found out your hero is a kid toucher.

[ptone]

Originally Posted by Michael Motley

Why would i want mj to be guilty?

Ummm...I don't know...maybe you should answer that question.

Originally Posted by Michael Motley

It doesnt matter to me one way or the other. He's guilty whether i 'want' it or not.

Actually he is only guilty in your mind...that does not necessarily mean he is actually guilty.

Originally Posted by Michael Motley

Don't get mad because you've just found out your hero is a kid toucher.

He's not my hero. As I stated before, I am a big fan of justice, though. Besides this is schoolyard rhetoric...and despite our disagreement, I thought you were better than that.

[GarrieWilson]

Originally Posted by Michael Motley

[/I]
No, but look at people in this thread who dont believe the charges, what makes you think people living by him are any less deluded?

I believe the charges. I don't believe the guilt.

If I was a parent, I wouldn't let my kids visit or stay the night w/ him. Not because of the chages but because of the overall environment. Kinds have enough trouble w/ reality as it is.

I also wouldnt let them visit rich kids who act in the same manor.

[Michael Motley]

Originally Posted by ptone

Ummm...I don't know...maybe you should answer that question.

I have...I dont hate him, just dont think he's a saint.

Actually he is only guilty in your mind...that does not necessarily mean he is actually guilty.

and in the minds of the children, and any adult with half a brain.

He's not my hero. As I stated before, I am a big fan of justice, though. Besides this is schoolyard rhetoric...and despite our disagreement, I thought you were better than that.

And being a big fan of 'justice' you really dont think there is anything wrong with a fully grown man sleeping with children (not his) in his bed? And if one of them said that they had been molested, obviously the child is lying...not the adult who's thought process is so jacked up that he thinks letting neighborhood children sleep in his bed AFTER he's already been accused of molestation once is a good idea?

[Michael Motley]

Originally Posted by GarrieWilson

I believe the charges. I don't believe the guilt.

If I was a parent, I wouldn't let my kids visit or stay the night w/ him. Not because of the chages but because of the overall environment. Kinds have enough trouble w/ reality as it is.

I also wouldnt let them visit rich kids who act in the same manor.

You wouldnt let them sleep over with a grown man, who at the time had no children? But why not?? ITS MJ...he's a saint...really. (a saint that sleeps with children and dresses like a 10 year old...but a saint)

[GarrieWilson]

Originally Posted by Michael Motley

You wouldnt let them sleep over with a grown man, who at the time had no children? But why not?? ITS MJ...he's a saint...really. (a saint that sleeps with children and dresses like a 10 year old...but a saint)

When I was 13/14, I stayed an entire summer w/ a man who had no kids, not married, etc. He was in his mid 20s.

Between 24 & 21 or so, I would stay 2-3 weeks a year w/ him and he would come to visit me on weekends. I lived 4 hours away from him.

He still always has kids at his house on weekends. Some weekends he has had as many as 10.

I met him at a summer camp for the disabled. He was a volunteer.

Of course I'm sure you think something is wrong w/ that too.

EDIT: This person was like a big brother to me.

[ptone]

Originally Posted by Michael Motley

and any adult with half a brain.

There you go again with the schoolyard rhetoric. That's OK...I only need half a brain for this discussion.

Originally Posted by Michael Motley

And being a big fan of 'justice' you really dont think there is anything wrong with a fully grown man sleeping with children (not his) in his bed?

Actually, I do think there is something wrong with that (thought I addressed this earlier). But that all by itself is not against the law and its not what he was charged with.

Originally Posted by Michael Motley

And if one of them said that they had been molested, obviously the child is lying...not the adult who's thought process is so jacked up that he thinks letting neighborhood children sleep in his bed AFTER he's already been accused of molestation once is a good idea?

And what about the thought process of the second accuser's Mom allowing her child to sleep over with MJ after the first accusation?

The first accuser's Dad wanted money...everything else be damned...is this OK with you? That same accuser's Mom said nothing wrong was done by MJ.

The second accuser's brother had already admitted that his Mom asked him to lie in a court case where she sued JC Penney. What makes you think she did not also ask this child to do the same? Oh by the way, that same Mother was also found guilty of welfare fraud.

I really don't expect you to address the issues I just brought up since you are avoiding them like the plague...thought I would try though...maybe you don't have enough brain?

[Michael Motley]

Originally Posted by ptone

There you go again with the schoolyard rhetoric. That's OK...I only need half a brain for this discussion.

Actually, I do think there is something wrong with that (thought I addressed this earlier). But that all by itself is not against the law and its not what he was charged with.

And what about the thought process of the second accuser's Mom allowing her child to sleep over with MJ after the first accusation?

You're sitting here defending him after you know he's been accused twice, paid people off twice. You dont see any similarities between the way you're defending him and why a starstruck mother would dismiss everyone around her telling her the guy is a perv much as you are right now?

The first accuser's Dad wanted money...everything else be damned...is this OK with you? That same accuser's Mom said nothing wrong was done by MJ.

The second accuser's brother had already admitted that his Mom asked him to lie in a court case where she sued JC Penney. What makes you think she did not also ask this child to do the same? Oh by the way, that same Mother was also found guilty of welfare fraud.

I really don't expect you to address the issues I just brought up since you are avoiding them like the plague...thought I would try though...maybe you don't have enough brain?

I'm not the one defending and accused pedo.

[ptone]

Originally Posted by Michael Motley

You're sitting here defending him after you know he's been accused twice, paid people off twice.

There you go again...another made up fact...this is the third time for you. Are you making these facts up to help your argument, or do you really not know what these cases are about?

He paid off one, not two.

Originally Posted by Michael Motley

You dont see any similarities between the way you're defending him and why a starstruck mother would dismiss everyone around her telling her the guy is a perv much as you are right now?

Are you talking about the Mom that admits MJ did nothing wrong with her son? Or are you talking about the Mom that was convicted of welfare fraud and asked one of her sons to commit perjury so she could win an award against JCPenney?

Originally Posted by Michael Motley

I'm not the one defending and accused pedo.

No, you are the one intentionally ignoring the facts and making up your own in order to prove your case.

[Michael Motley]

Originally Posted by ptone

There you go again...another made up fact...this is the third time for you. Are you making these facts up to help your argument, or do you really not know what these cases are about?

He paid off one, not two.

oh, so you agree he has been accused twice and paid people off.

Are you talking about the Mom that admits MJ did nothing wrong with her son? Or are you talking about the Mom that was convicted of welfare fraud and asked one of her sons to commit perjury so she could win an award against JCPenney?

No, you are the one intentionally ignoring the facts and making up your own in order to prove your case.

hmm..i wonder if mom went against the story due to some kind of financial 'nudge' from mj....nah...never happen. an innocent man wouldnt need to take money out of his pock.....doh!

[ptone]

Originally Posted by Michael Motley

oh, so you agree he has been accused twice and paid people off.

Yes...he was accused twice and he paid the first accuser to drop charges and leave him alone...not because he was guilty. I'm really surprised you've never heard of this. Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton have been making companies do this for years (forcing them to pay up or they make noise even though the allegations were false). Its called a shakedown. Really, you've never heard of this happening?

Originally Posted by Michael Motley

hmm..i wonder if mom went against the story due to some kind of financial 'nudge' from mj....nah...never happen. an innocent man wouldnt need to take money out of his pock.....doh!

No, dude, your made up facts aren't even making sense any more. You think that the Mom would take the money, then say MJ did nothing wrong? Guess who goes to jail then? That's simply admitting to extortion.