Fiverr Copyright Infringement Lawsuits?

Banned 10 years ago

Originally Posted by TLondon

Just curious.

How come nobody has filed a lawsuit against Fiverr? Half of the stuff in there is subject to copyright infringement, especially images. I've ordered stuff a while ago from there where I received images using photographs to which the seller clearly didn't have any rights.

Thoughts?

Yeah, it's a cesspool of pirated material in many categories over there. I have had at least 3 different sellers removed for selling pirated images but I guess Fiverr has avoided serious copyright litigation since it is the "independent sellers" that are violating copyrights.

If the deal seems too good to be true then usually it is.

I think Fiverr should be a bit more responsible for the sellers they allow on the site but that is another debate entirely. I guess until the laws change or someone with a whole bunch of money and/or power makes something happen we are stuck sorting through a bunch of pirated material on Fiverr (and similar sites) to find something legit.

I wish someone would get the ball rolling on stopping the sale of pirated material at sites like Fiverr but it's become so rampant these days unfortunately I figure we have little chance of that ever happening.

Cheers

-don

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Alexa Smith Banned 10 years ago

This ^^^. I agree completely with all of Don's post above.

The blatant breaches of copyright I've occasionally "reported" there, myself, have also all apparently been attended to by removing their sellers.

(I don't go there much, though, because I now employ VA's who can do all the things I ever used to outsource there.)
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TLondon

10 years ago

Good responses, I agree.

I went through their ToS and it seems that they're trying to shift the liability onto the sellers. I'm not a lawyer, but from the little search that I've done, I don't think that protects them from a serious lawsuit. So it's just a matter of somebody actually coming along, gathering all the data and throwing it at them. Maybe if there were singular cases this wouldn't be such a problem, but there's hundreds - if not thousands - of copyright infringement cases on the site.

Oh well, it doesn't really hurt me, just thought it's interesting how nobody still capitalized on the opportunity to make some cash with the US legal system.

@Alexa, speaking of VA's, if it's no secret, where do you hire yours? Elance and similar?

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Alexa Smith

Banned 10 years ago

Originally Posted by TLondon

@Alexa, speaking of VA's, if it's no secret, where do you hire yours? Elance and similar?

Looo-o-o-o-o-ooong story full of trial and error, accidents and mistakes, wit, invective, cauliflower soup, and eventual success.

But to give you only the highly abbreviated version, I found one through personal contacts, one by advertising (offline) in front of a Filipino audience (and putting up a one-page blog setting out a slightly complicated "application procedure" to check whether people could reliably follow instructions) and one through an agency in India. I didn't want three full-time VA's and didn't have enough for them to do, but that's how it ended up: I (wrongly) thought only two, or possibly even only one, of them would "last the course" with me, but I like and value them all, and once you have people you trust, you find additional things for them to do, and it all works out. I've had all three of them, full-time, for well over a year, now.

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Chris Worner

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Alexa Smith

Looo-o-o-o-o-ooong story full of trial and error, accidents and mistakes, wit, invective, cauliflower soup, and eventual success.

But to give you only the highly abbreviated version, I found one through personal contacts, one by advertising (offline) in front of a Filipino audience (and putting up a one-page blog setting out a slightly complicated "application procedure" to check whether people could reliably follow instructions) and one through an agency in India. I didn't want three full-time VA's and didn't have enough for them to do, but that's how it ended up: I (wrongly) thought only two, or possibly even only one, of them would "last the course" with me, but I like and value them all, and once you have people you trust, you find additional things for them to do, and it all works out. I've had all three of them, full-time, for well over a year, now.

Found any good writers?

-Chris

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Kay King

10 years ago

I have to laugh when people go to Fiverr and expect unique and original and "made for me" materials every time. Come on - this is the dollar store online. Full of knockoffs and plastic crap which online transmits to "stuff you don't have a right to use".

It is sad that someone not in the US has the opinion that finding someone to sue is "how to get money in the US". Too close to the truth there.

In this particular case - how would Fiverr (or any provider) KNOW the seller was "going to" send you an image in violation of copyright? Chances are you report it - with documentation - and that seller would be removed.

In Fiverr's favor - few people losing $5 will spend the time necessary to provide documentation and followup.

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ForumGuru

Banned 10 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

I have to laugh when people go to Fiverr and expect unique and original and "made for me" materials every time. Come on - this is the dollar store online. Full of knockoffs and plastic crap which online transmits to "stuff you don't have a right to use".

It is sad that someone not in the US has the opinion that finding someone to sue is "how to get money in the US". Too close to the truth there.

In this particular case - how would Fiverr (or any provider) KNOW the seller was "going to" send you an image in violation of copyright? Chances are you report it - with documentation - and that seller would be removed.

In Fiverr's favor - few people losing $5 will spend the time necessary to provide documentation and followup.

The problem is Fiverr allows a tremendous amount of gigs that are too good to be true (stolen material) and that is a fine enough reason for me for them to be sued. They allow sellers to post outrageous gigs with no documentation that include up to 750 or 1000 or more stolen stock photos to be sold for $5. Good grief...no real photographer sells images without proper documentation and licensing.

The stock image company (or freelance photographer) that has been pilfered is loosing potentially thousands of dollars as the watermark free photos get sold to a bunch of cheapskates that don't mind using stolen photos. Sure a few people that get sold are the unsuspecting...but once you see the photos many soon realize they received much more than what they paid for.

This devalues the photos big-time as people that could have never afforded the photos in the first place (or would not have licensed them) spread them across the internet on Pinterest, Facebook and worse.

To be honest I have never purchased a gig on Fiverr that was not for the sole purpose of busting the gig to eliminate the illegal completion. With the gigs that I have busted a simple reverse image search on the displayed images told me the images were stolen.

While I am not in-favor of a lawsuit society I would love for someone to drop some serious litigation On Fiverr, Pinterest etc. etc. because it is sites like these have helped turn US copyright law into an almost unenforceable joke.

Many of the people advocating a free internet are the same people that steal photos, images, videos, music, and other copyrighted material on a daily basis and as someone that owns close to a million photos I have seen enough of this nonsense.

IMO sites like FIverr are too "loose" with their standards and they are allowing thieves and pirates to run rampant --> it is not a business model that I am a big fan of. Why would I want to compete with thieves and crooks? The fact is I don't...

To make matters worse Fiverr protects their users identity so it's difficult to go after the infringers.

Cheers

-don

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tagiscom

10 years ago

Originally Posted by ForumGuru

The products I have checked are straight stock photos, images and graphics.This is where I have seen top quality high resolution photos and images that would license for tens of thousands of dollars sold for $5. I have not purchased any flyers or similar from Fiverr my biggest concern is people selling the pirated raw stock material.

On another note I have twice purchased software from other Fiverr like sites and on both purchases I received pirated software and had to go to PayPal top get my money back.

Cheers

-don

Ok, haven't checked their stock photos?

Licence for tens of thousands!!!

You must be talking about full resell rights, although l have never seen a stock photo go for that much!

I think that full rights to a Shutterstock photo, is a few hundred?

But that is large poster size, not a wall size, so?

I always say that there is a limit to how many times my flyers can be reproduced, since most of the material is from a third party site. And provide the link with the product.

And l can't sell any of their images outright, or l would get into trouble.

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ForumGuru

Banned 10 years ago

Originally Posted by tagiscom

Ok, haven't checked their stock photos?

Licence for tens of thousands!!!

Many photos are sold as rights managed photos and those licenses can run into the thousands depending on the uniqueness of the photo, the size of the photo, and the end use. I myself have licensed single photos that have paid me a grand. Alamy, Getty and many other big boys in the business sell these licenses on a daily basis.

Originally Posted by tagiscom

You must be talking about full resell rights, although l have never seen a stock photo go for that much!

NO, I am not talking any resell rights at all. I am talking about rights managed images for commercial and other uses as well as royalty free images. Resell rights are not standard practice in the image business...in-fact they are quite rare.

Originally Posted by tagiscom

I think that full rights to a Shutterstock photo, is a few hundred?

Do the math on a $200 image.

1 image = $200
100 images = $20,000
1000 images = $200,0000

So when someone on Fiverr sells a buyer 500 stolen high-res images for $5 those images could have been worth $100,000 even at just $200 per image.

The math on a cheap $15 high resolution royalty free image.

1 image = $15
100 images = $1500
500 images = $7500
1000 images = $15,0000

Originally Posted by tagiscom

But that is large poster size, not a wall size, so?

No, I am just talking about traditional high resolution images that could be printed between 300-600 DPI which is basically the standard for making quality prints in books, magazines, flyers etc.

Originally Posted by tagiscom

I always say that there is a limit to how many times my flyers can be reproduced, since most of the material is from a third party site. And provide the link with the product.

And l can't sell any of their images outright, or l would get into trouble.

Exactly. The problem is I have caught people selling packages as large as 1000 stolen images high resolution for $5. If you licensed the same photos from the company that actually legally licenses those images you would have paid tens of thousands or more and you would have had to follow strict licensing conditions.

Cheers

-don

Thanks
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tagiscom

10 years ago

Originally Posted by ForumGuru

Many photos are sold as rights managed photos and those licenses can run into the thousands depending on the uniqueness of the photo, the size of the photo, and the end use. I myself have licensed a single photos that have paid me a grand. Alamy, Getty and many other big boys in the business sell these licenses on a daily basis.

NO, I am not talking any resell rights at all. I am talking about rights managed images for commercial and other uses as well as royalty free images. Resell rights are not standard practice in the image business...in-fact they are quite rare.

Do the math on a $200 image.

1 image = $200
100 images = $20,000
1000 images = $200,0000

So when someone on Fiverr sells a buyer 500 stolen high-res images for $5 those images could have been worth $100,000 even at just $200 per image.

The math on a cheap $15 high resolution royalty free image.

1 image = $15
100 images = $1500
500 images = $7500
1000 images = $15,0000

No, I am just talking about traditional high resolution images that could be printed between 300-600 DPI which is basically the standard for making quality prints in books, magazines, flyers etc.

Exactly. The problem is I have caught people selling packages as large as 1000 stolen images high resolution for $5. If you licensed the same photos from the company that actually legally licenses those images you would have paid tens of thousands or more and you would have had to follow strict licensing conditions.

Cheers

-don

Ok, makes sense now!

Yes, l bought 750 images from Shutterstock for about $200! But that doesn't include resell rights, in the resell the image sense.

This was from 1500 that l originally found and sifted down to 750. I also got a coupon code that knocked it down from $250 to $200.

And it took, a month to download them all.

A pain, but at least it is a hard path for the customer to follow. Well legally anyway!

Most images were about 5000 by 5000 pixels wide!

Although vector images were included.

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XenG

10 years ago

Perhaps people don't really believe in most of what the sellers can offer and doesn't bother filling a case that would cost them more than $5. I think buyers usually take a risks on things like this.

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ForumGuru

Banned 10 years ago

Originally Posted by XenG

Perhaps people don't really believe in most of what the sellers can offer and doesn't bother filling a case that would cost them more than $5. I think buyers usually take a risks on things like this.

Some of the industry giants (and countless others) are having their photos (and other stuff) pirated and then sold on Fiverr by the pirates. I have caught sellers pirating some of the best images from the biggest stock houses in the business and then selling hundreds and hundreds of of them for just $5 for the entire bundle on Fiverr. Photos that cost tens of thousands of dollars or more to license! Yeah, if someone stole that much merchandise from a store and tried to resell it and got caught it would be a couple of felony charges (or more) and the thief would be doing some time.

It's not just the buyer that is getting harmed...it's the photographers, agencies and product creators etc. that are getting ripped off big time.

Cheers

-don

Thanks
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tagiscom

10 years ago

Originally Posted by ForumGuru

Some of the industry giants (and countless others) are having their photos (and other stuff) pirated and then sold on Fiverr by the pirates. I have caught sellers pirating some of the best images from the biggest stock houses in the business and then selling hundreds and hundreds of of them for just $5 for the entire bundle on Fiverr. Photos that cost tens of thousands of dollars or more to license! Yeah, if someone stole that much merchandise from a store and tried to resell it and got caught it would be a couple of felony charges (or more) and the thief would be doing some time.

It's not just the buyer that is getting harmed...it's the photographers, agencies and product creators etc. that are getting ripped off big time.

Cheers

-don

True, l did see one image or flyer l saw at Graphicriver, but since l don't know whether she originally created it, l can't really kick up a stink about it!

She was a graphic artist, so....

But virtually all the other high quality flyers over there, look good but are crap when you get them.

Small image, low quality, and all the graphic layers are flattened, about all you can do is change the text, before asking for a refund.

I paid out $10 for one, and got the above, with the original PSD file, (which costed the other $5).

I ordered one and took it on the chin, but asked for a refund for the other one he also did.

So, there are some high quality ones over there, including mine, but most are garbage, so l don't think that at least for flyers, that Photographers, etc need to be worried.

Shutterstock, do take audits now and then, or is it graphicriver? To make sure you own the rights to the images you use.

A good idea, which Fiverr could consider, in the legal terms page!

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ForumGuru

Banned 10 years ago

Originally Posted by tagiscom

So, there are some high quality ones over there, including mine, but most are garbage, so l don't think that at least for flyers, that Photographers, etc need to be worried.

The products I have checked are straight stock photos, images and graphics.This is where I have seen top quality high resolution photos and images that would license for tens of thousands of dollars sold for $5. I have not purchased any flyers or similar from Fiverr my biggest concern is people selling the pirated raw stock material.

On another note I have twice purchased software from other Fiverr like sites and on both purchases I received pirated software and had to go to PayPal top get my money back.

Cheers

-don

Thanks

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TLondon

10 years ago

Originally Posted by XenG

Perhaps people don't really believe in most of what the sellers can offer and doesn't bother filling a case that would cost them more than $5. I think buyers usually take a risks on things like this.

I believe Fiverr would be responsible if a lawsuit would be filed, not the seller. There's nothing they can do to sellers except for banning. Nobody's going to chase anybody in India or Bangladesh. Fiverr, on the other hand, is based in NY and is an easy target, because saying that a website is "user generated" in the ToS doesn't shift the liability from the website onto the user.

I think it's just a matter of time, unless Fiverr hit their sellers hard, which would also affect their sales.

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ForumGuru

Banned 10 years ago

Originally Posted by TLondon

I believe Fiverr would be responsible if a lawsuit would be filed, not the seller.

I wish it were so --> but I don't think it's that clear-cut as they do try to hide behind the legal jargon...

Posting or sending adult, illegal, rude, abusive, improper, copyright protected, promotional, spam, violent, nonsense or any uncool stuff is strictly prohibited. Doing so will get your account disabled permanently.

We wish to remind that Fiverr.com's content is based on User Generated Content (UGC). Fiverr does not check user uploaded/created content for violations of copyright, trademarks or other rights. We invite everyone to report violations together with proof of ownership. Reported violating content may be removed or disabled. Furthermore, Fiverr is not responsible for the content, quality or the level of service provided by the Sellers. We provide no warranty with respect to the Gigs, their delivery, and any communications between buyers and sellers. We encourage users to take advantage of our rating system, our community and common sense in choosing appropriate GIGS® service offers.
By offering a service, the seller undertakes that he has sufficient permissions, rights and/or licenses to provide, sell or resell the service that they offer on Fiverr.

Sellers advertising their Gig online must comply with laws and terms of service of the advertising platform or relevant website used to advertise. Failing to do so may result in removal of the Gig and may lead to the suspension of seller's account.
For specific terms related to Intellectual Property rights and for reporting claims of copyright infringement (DMCA notices) or trademark infringement please see our Intellectual Property Claims Policy here which forms an integral part of these Terms of Service. Note that It is our policy in appropriate circumstances to disable and/or terminate the accounts of users who are repeat infringers.

Disclaimer of Warranties

YOUR USE OF THE SITE, ITS CONTENT AND ANY SERVICES OR ITEMS OBTAINED THROUGH THE WEBSITE IS AT YOUR OWN RISK. THE SITE, ITS CONTENT AND ANY SERVICES OR ITEMS OBTAINED THROUGH THE WEBSITE ARE PROVIDED ON AN "AS IS" AND "AS AVAILABLE" BASIS, WITHOUT ANY WARRANTIES OF ANY KIND, EITHER EXPRESS OR IMPLIED. NEITHER FIVERR NOR ANY PERSON ASSOCIATED WITH FIVERR MAKES ANY WARRANTY OR REPRESENTATION WITH RESPECT TO THE COMPLETENESS, SECURITY, RELIABILITY, QUALITY, ACCURACY OR AVAILABILITY OF THE WEBSITE.
THE FOREGOING DOES NOT AFFECT ANY WARRANTIES WHICH CANNOT BE EXCLUDED OR LIMITED UNDER APPLICABLE LAW.

Limitation on Liability

IN NO EVENT WILL FIVERR, ITS AFFILIATES OR THEIR LICENSORS, SERVICE PROVIDERS, EMPLOYEES, AGENTS, OFFICERS OR DIRECTORS BE LIABLE FOR DAMAGES OF ANY KIND, UNDER ANY LEGAL THEORY, ARISING OUT OF OR IN CONNECTION WITH YOUR USE, OR INABILITY TO USE, THE WEBSITE, ANY WEBSITES LINKED TO IT, ANY CONTENT ON THE WEBSITE OR SUCH OTHER WEBSITES OR ANY SERVICES OR ITEMS OBTAINED THROUGH THE WEBSITE OR SUCH OTHER WEBSITES, INCLUDING ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, SPECIAL, INCIDENTAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR PUNITIVE DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, PERSONAL INJURY, PAIN AND SUFFERING, EMOTIONAL DISTRESS, LOSS OF REVENUE, LOSS OF PROFITS, LOSS OF BUSINESS OR ANTICIPATED SAVINGS, LOSS OF USE, LOSS OF GOODWILL, LOSS OF DATA, AND WHETHER CAUSED BY TORT (INCLUDING NEGLIGENCE), BREACH OF CONTRACT OR OTHERWISE, EVEN IF FORESEEABLE.
THE FOREGOING DOES NOT AFFECT ANY LIABILITY WHICH CANNOT BE EXCLUDED OR LIMITED UNDER APPLICABLE LAW.

And of course the have their DMCA page...

Fiverr's Intellectual Property Claims

It's a bit like Warrior Forum to the extent that Warrior Forum may delete or close an offer but you take your beef up with the seller, not the platform. Of course one of major differences being is it can be a bit more difficult to "communicate" with the seller on Fiverr as they "protect" the identity of users. They say this is for privacy purposes but I am not so sure about that.

I would love to see someone take them on in a major legal battle but so far Fiverr (and countless others) seem to have operated virtually unscathed without having to assume much liability.

Cheers

-don

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ForumGuru

Banned 10 years ago

I should have known...the Fiverr founder was a lawyer.

Once upon a time Micha Kaufman was a lawyer, and he looks the part. He has salt and pepper hair and no nonsense cheekbones. When we met in a coffee shop, the hoodie and converse shoes he wore reminded me of a Mark Zuckerberg Halloween costume. They fit him strangely, as though he ought to be wearing a suit instead.

“I’m a recovered lawyer, but I’ve been clean for more than 10 years,” Kaufman says sheepishly. His corporate roots may still infuse his mannerisms, but in the early 2000s, he chucked the boring world he didn’t want to be in, and reinvented himself as a startup man.

It’s fitting then that Kaufman is the co-founder and CEO of Fiverr, a company that aims to allow people to freelance their way to fiscal freedom. Fiverr’s user base has been steadily growing since its inception in 2010, and as of Monday they’ve hit 2 million gigs listed through the site...

Once upon a time the founder of freelancing site Fiverr was a lawyer | PandoDaily

Cheers

-don

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ForumGuru

Banned 10 years ago

Originally Posted by tagiscom

Ok, makes sense now!

Yup...

I could provide countless examples but here is just one example of one photo at one legit stock site with extended rights. Not image resale rights...but the rights to create products with the image and then sell those products.

Cheers

-don

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Kay King

10 years ago

Really - that's the image you choose for here? Whatever.

allows a tremendous amount of gigs that are too good to be true

Have you looked at the WSO section recently? Anywhere naive people are willing to believe the impossible is possible - there will be dream-sellers. The cheaper the offers - the harder it is to find good sellers in the mix.

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ForumGuru

Banned 10 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

Really - that's the image you choose for here? Whatever.

Yeah, and guess what, it's also the same image used by a WSO advertised on one of the big Warrior Forum banner ads the past two days. I could have picked from a million or more, but this one was quick and easy. In fact two "sexy image" WSOs were on the WSO section front page in the past few days. The one I spoke of, and another by Brad Gosse. I don't do these types of images myself, but I do shoot cheerleaders, dancers, performers etc.

Originally Posted by Kay King

Have you looked at the WSO section recently?

Yeah, and I'm with Paul....let's get rid of the stupid income claims and some of the other nonsense.

Originally Posted by Kay King

Anywhere naive people are willing to believe the impossible is possible - there will be dream-sellers. The cheaper the offers - the harder it is to find good sellers in the mix.

Yeah, I agree, but I am not quite as concerned with the dream-sellers as I am with people pirating and reselling the pirated photos since I have a huge library of stock images and art, and I have been selling professionally since 2002. I am in the business of selling photos, not dreams.

I have busted many sellers on here for using and selling pirated images so maybe it's time some of the dream-sellers start busting more of the bogus dream-sellers. I don't know if that's possible, but we can only hope.

I would love to see the WSO section "cleaned-up" but I am afraid that removing the War Room requirement and reducing the cost to just $20 to run a WSO seems to be having the opposite effect, IMO.

It would be nice if my non-dream offer of 5000 images for a dirt cheap price to stood out a little more...but competing in the sea of dreams with all of those offers built for specifically for the dreamers makes it a bit of a challenge.

Cheers

-don

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ForumGuru

Banned 10 years ago

@ Kay

Just try to ignore the other image pricing example that I posted.

Cheers

-don

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TLondon

10 years ago

@ForumGuru, I dug around a little deeper and while there are some contradictory articles, it seems like you're right - Fiverr should be within DMCA's safe harbors.

However, I think there's still a loophole since given the amount of actual content that's infringing copyrights (which is definitely in hundreds if not thousands), there has to be a way to attract attention to the mass of it rather than one specific case.

Regardless, after reading on DMCA's safe harbours, it sounds pretty stupid, as the major takeaway is this: "Put up DMCA page, and monitor users as LEAST as possible." The more you monitor, the more liable you will be.

Stupid, and obviously in the website's favor. I'd love to see somebody take a swing at them though.

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ForumGuru Banned 10 years ago

Originally Posted by TLondon

Stupid, and obviously in the website's favor. I'd love to see somebody take a swing at them though.

Amen!

When you find that high powered legal authority, group or organization ready to take a swing at them or other large players that seem to allow wholesale breach of copyright let me know. I would be willing to donate a few hours a week of my time for research or whatever else is necessary to make that swing count.

Cheers

-don
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Fiverr Copyright Infringement Lawsuits?

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