Some Of The Members Here Leave A Bad Taste In My Mouth

15 years ago

Well, I'm getting nothing but flaks in my thread about Michael
Jackson. And the goal was to find other videos on him.

With how people are treating MJ and not giving him the least
bit of respect despite what he has done and contributed to the
world and to the music industry, I'm not surprised to see why
MJ turned away from the "normal" human life.

If I were MJ, I'd turn away from these "people" too.

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Patrician

15 years ago

Not to mention that millions of people are mourning, including his family and the HATERS have no respect for that either. IT WAS A SHOCK in any case.

Michael was a fallible human being - most artists are 'eccentric' and 'mad geniuses' are quite common.

He wasn't perfect and in fact he was pretty sick. I wonder if these haters take ugly pills or they are just ugly naturally.

Of course nothing excuses child molestation if there was any in fact. However this is really not the time to throw stones.

'let he who is without sin cast the first stone'

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KimW

15 years ago

Steven,
What your seeing here is a microscopic version of what this country has become.
While he has made some good music and I do like a few,note I said a few, of his songs,I have never really been a MJ fan.
But I would never disrespect someone so soon after their death.
There are some people posting that are very ugly on the inside.
RIP MJ.

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MichaelHiles

15 years ago

You know what's REALLY ironic?

All the things that have been said about Michael Jackson by other iconic celebs like Dennis Miller, Jay Leno, David Letterman, etc...

Nary a bitch or whine.

This guy has a blog that tracks the MJ jokes. Michael Jackson Jokes

He keeps a running list of the intelligent hate mail Michael Jackson Fan Mail

People hate him for posting the jokes other celebs said.

Deja vu.

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Imran Naseem

Banned 15 years ago

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MichaelHiles

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Imran Naseem

Why are you so obsessed with him in picking out his band points?

Are you having a bad turbulent time in your life?

Not in the least! My life is spectacular!

I happen to subscribe to this thing called "a balanced viewpoint".

The kinds of people swarming into the streets over the news of his death would be anything but... "balanced". That's just stupidity.

I've stated over and over, I don't hate MJ. He's pitiful... like an insane bagperson in an alley sort of pitiful. A life of pure tragedy... probably most blamed on Ol' Daddy Joe.

But all this fawning love for him glosses over the darker side, which most certainly existed. He didn't earn the name "Wacko Jacko" for nothing - and I didn't give it to him either.

People want to love him like some messiah, fine. He was indeed talented, but there was a reality beyond the media-constructed persona. And that reality was dark, and maybe VERY dark if he really did molest those kids.

I'm just of the mind that it's not all unicorns, rainbows, flower petals, and lovey dovey. He was a disturbed man.

But for pointing these things out... there exists a contingency that loses their mind over it.

I'd suggest that those who hold such hero worship over anyone... Michael Jackson, Barak Obama, whomever... it doesn't matter, has the deep seeded issues. These are just human men... fallible in every way. Reality check.

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KimW

15 years ago

Originally Posted by MichaelHiles

...I happen to subscribe to this thing called "a balanced viewpoint"...

Actually ,you don't.

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MichaelHiles

15 years ago

Originally Posted by KimW

Actually ,you don't.

Well golly, thanks for clearing it all up for me. How did I make it this far without you?

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MikeAmbrosio

15 years ago

Originally Posted by MichaelHiles

Well golly, thanks for clearing it all up for me. How did I make it this far without you?

Actually, she's right...you don't.

But don't feel bad - most of us don't.

As much as we try to say we aren't basing our opinions on media, I would point out that in THIS case, EVERYONE'S opinion is based on the media - it HAS to be because you, me, and probably everyone on this forum was not THERE during all of this.

YOU don't know the facts.

I don't know the facts.

The worshipers don't know the facts.

All we know is what we hear/read/see in the media and then we base our opinion on that which we CHOOSE to believe as the truth.

I had an English teacher in the 9th grade who used to say:

"Believe HALF of what you see and NONE of what you hear"

It is a credo I have (more or less) lived by since that day (I am 45 now). I have learned that judging people at ALL, much less based only on what we get from our "oh-so-accurate" news lemmings, is not all that wise. Some day someone will judge you (or me) based only on what they HEARD, not on facts, and we will learn how painful that really is.

But - and here's the one thing I can't figure out - why does anyone even care so much, one way or the other? He was human, now he's passed on. Let him rest in peace.

And like him or not, his music means many things to many people. Music defines portions of our lives (at least most people). He is also credited as the most charitable entertainer in history (so the news media says - I have not researched this).

I am not 100% convinced he was guilty. I am not 100% convinced he did nothing. But, it's not for me to say. His maker and he have a date, and he will get to explain himself there. That's all I need to know.

So, can we LL just stop the madness now? As entertaining as these MJ threads have been, they're now getting ugly. That's not what being a Warrior is supposed to be about. To me anyway.

Peace to you all.

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Steven Wagenheim

15 years ago

Originally Posted by MikeAmbrosio

So, can we LL just stop the madness now? As entertaining as these MJ threads have been, they're now getting ugly. That's not what being a Warrior is supposed to be about. To me anyway.

Peace to you all.

Michael, I love your philosophy on life.

You have a good head on your shoulders. And you're right, nobody knows
what happened...not you, not me, nobody except for those who were
directly involved.

He's gone and now is not the time to throw dirt all over him.

At least that's not the way I was brought up.

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MikeAmbrosio

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

Michael, I love your philosophy on life.

You have a good head on your shoulders. And you're right, nobody knows
what happened...not you, not me, nobody except for those who were
directly involved.

He's gone and now is not the time to throw dirt all over him.

At least that's not the way I was brought up.

Like many, I have gone through a lot in my life starting at a very young age. There was a time I had so much repressed anger that I suffered debilitating chest pains.

If not for a fantastic psychologist who helped me find the root of the issues, then help me get through them, there's no telling where I would be now.

And of course, my mother's sage advice my entire life until she passed 2 years ago.

But, I learned life is too short to take all of this crap so personal. It shouldn't be personal in this case - none of us knew MJ.

My little sister WAS molested when she was about 8 by a man who lived up the block. He lured her and one of her friends into his apartment on several occasions and there was nothing I could do about it then (I was 12).

Well, my brother and I constantly damaged his tow truck for like a year.

So I have a deep hatred for PROVEN molesters. Not ones "convicted" by the media. Especially ones who will never be near my children.

I would rather focus on what I do have the power to confront and/or change. All the crap in this forum regarding this is a complete time waster.

But, again, that's simply MY viewpoint. Everyone else can think what they want.

Mike

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ThomM 15 years ago

Actually, she's right...you don't.

Actually Mike that should say he's right.
Kim is a male
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- MikeAmbrosio 15 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by ThomM
  
  Actually Mike that should say he's right.
  Kim is a male
  
  LOL!
  
  Then my apologies. I did not know. No offense intended.
  
  Mike
  
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  ThomM 15 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by MikeAmbrosio
  
  LOL!
  
  Then my apologies. I did not know. No offense intended.
  
  Mike
  
  He get's that all the time Mike.
  I just noticed he wasn't online now and figured I'd clear it up for him.
  It's like when I was a kid, I thought I spelt my last name
  M-e-y-e-r-there's-no-s
  because everybody said Meyers instead of Meyer and I always had to say it's Meyer there's no s.
  OK I must be getting tired if I'm telling that story
  
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  KimW 15 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by MikeAmbrosio
  
  LOL!
  
  Then my apologies. I did not know. No offense intended.
  
  Mike
  
  None taken!
  
  Like ThomM said, I'm used to it.
  And like you, I've been through way too much in my 55 years to let the little things bother me.
  
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  MikeAmbrosio 15 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by KimW
  
  None taken!
  
  Like ThomM said, I used to it.
  And like you, I've been through way too much in my 55 years to let the little things bother me.
  
  Cool. But I suppose the "Cranky Old Man" should have been a hint.
  
  That's what I get for skimming instead of reading.
  
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MichaelHiles

15 years ago

It's all good Mike. You make very valid points on multiple fronts. I should have been a little more tempered with my approach... I was simply reacting to the "over the top" outpouring of all this groupie nonsense and it was starting to be a bit much for me... I was the cranky one. I was (at to a degree still am) taken aback at the sheer quantity of people who I thought had good heads on their shoulders, turning into what appears to be media led zombies. People pouring into the streets? Mobbing the hospital where he died? geesh

I mean... people are certainly free to react outwardly in whatever fashion they choose. But I was also exercising my nausea over a full day's worth. I have adult friends in their 40s & 50s actually openly crying over this. WHISKY TANGO FOXTROT?!?!??!!??!?!

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Kay King 15 years ago

I saw last night what type of outpouring there would be today - so TV stayed off, haven't been on the forum or anywhere else people were discussing this. No one gains anything from this behavior.

There is a sleaze factor in some comments here and on other sites that says more about the people making the comments than about Jackson.

kay
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Ken Strong

15 years ago

Originally Posted by MichaelHiles

I was (at to a degree still am) taken aback at the sheer quantity of people who I thought had good heads on their shoulders, turning into what appears to be media led zombies. People pouring into the streets? Mobbing the hospital where he died? geesh

Happens every time a huge celebrity dies... remember when Princess Di died? Same type of thing. I don't get it either.

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MikeAmbrosio 15 years ago

Originally Posted by KenStrong

Happens every time a huge celebrity dies... remember when Princess Di died? Same type of thing. I don't get it either.

People are star-struck. I don't understand it either. I have met more than my fair share of "celebrities" in my life living in the greater NY area. Most are regular people, some are a-holes. But none of them make me want to fall to my knees in worship. The only one that comes close is Clint Eastwood. I love that guy!

But, it happens. I giggle. People are people.

Tonight I tuned in to VH1 Classic because there was supposed to be an Iron Maiden segment. But it was pre-empted for (wait for it) a MJ tribute.

The masses want this, so the media feeds it. Then the media feeds it more and more and the masses love it and want more.

It's a vicious cycle...
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Patrician

15 years ago

"The Love You Make Is Equal to the Love You Take"

I have to say that aside from Michael being a great dancer and singer, that the thing that he exuded to me was lovingness and kindness. He had a real humility.

After two days now of listening to people who met or knew him I have not heard one person say he was other than what he projected to me.

I am usually one who is sick to death of a news story after the first 2 times and will mutter and change the channel. However I am taking comfort in listening to the story of his life, his last TV appearance, last everythings.

He was one cool little cat, but like so many stars that burn so bright, they just burn out too soon. (and usually push it forward abusing themselves) - As if it is more pressure than a person can bear to be so famous. He also had the added burden of all the wrong decisions he made as do we all.

So for this reason, hysterical groupies and horrible allegations aside, there are millions of people who are feeling sad right now and I really took offense at the ugliness that was interjected here. Every where else all i saw was love.

It is such a paradox how someone whose life is so huge, can have such a sad story and sudden death.

We all end up in the same place. Dead.

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derekwong28

15 years ago

If MJ had died in his nineties after a long chronic disease, I am sure the reaction would be very different.

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TimPhelan 15 years ago

Very good interview with Deepak Chopra, who was a close friend of MJ:

Countdown with Keith OlbermannCountdown with Keith Olbermann
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- 50calray 15 years ago
  
  Well I'm not a huge fan of the man, can't really think of anything good to say ATM either other than R.I.P.
  
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Joseph Then

15 years ago

My view is that you can judge and comment on a person's work, let God be the judge of the person.

People trying to play God is going to be pretty miserable, failure and loser. You got that list of losers after that MJ thread right, Steven?

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valerieSONORA

15 years ago

Some members left a bad taste in my mouth waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay before this

Therefore the ignore button comes in handy

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derekwong28

15 years ago

This just shows that we don't need political and religious topics to get into an unpleasant and nasty row. What next shall we suggest Allen to ban then?

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Steven Wagenheim

15 years ago

All I know is that it's a shame that a thread that was started simply to pay
tribute to a person who, if nothing else, was a big part of pop music culture
had to be closed because some people have to act like a bunch of dicks.

That's right, you're a bunch of dicks.

And if you want to give me some sh*t for that remark, bring it on because
you ain't seen nothing yet.

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MikeAmbrosio

15 years ago

Originally Posted by billyboy

Sorry Mike that has to be the biggest contradiction I have read in a while:

(bye the way i agree. He's a great actor. Watched all the Westerns last month...classic)

LOL - then you don't read much

I love his acting - but that doesn't mean I would walk the streets crying, hold a public candle light vigil or anything else when he passes.

I simply don't consider myself starstruck (by my definition). So in my view, there's no contradiction.

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Kay King 15 years ago

You're right - no contradiction.

If someone provided something of quality to your life - through their music, their acting or entertaining you with their antics - you can respect their passing without going to the extremes of mourning or bashing.

Your opinion on any celebrity's personal life is irrelevant to others unless you knew them as a person. Taking an emotional stand on any issue without knowing all the facts is a waste of emotional energy to me.

kay
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Steven Wagenheim

15 years ago

Originally Posted by dlwebb610

Steve: No wonder this world is so f*cked up.

The world is so f*cked up because people like you want to defend people like this. The man was a child molester and abuser, (that's his own son he's endangering) get a grip.

I'm not defending anyone. I don't know all the facts of what Michael
did or didn't do. I wasn't there.

All I am saying is that this isn't the time and place to throw dirt on the
man. He's dead. Have a little respect. You don't like him? Fine. But let
those who want to pay their respects do so without you throwing your
hatred all over it.

That's all I'm saying. This is not the place to do what's been done.

And I have no respect for people who kick a man in the groin who has
just died...especially when nothing has been proven.

So don't you tell me to go get a grip. I'll do whatever the hell I please.

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MichaelHiles

15 years ago

There's one, very remarkable difference here that can be easily observed.

Some people got so emotionally twisted over this issue that they made it personal and launched direct, personal attacks right out of the gate in defense of their idol.

It's pretty easy to see who this is and isn't.

I might offer that up as a basis to anyone considering business partnerships as well. You'll know what to expect when things don't go their way, as can be demonstrated here by people who can talk about their position on an issue without getting personal vs. those who are so emotionally fractious that they fly off the handle in the face of someone who has a different opinion than themselves.

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Steven Wagenheim 15 years ago

Know what? I'm fed up with this whole topic.

No wonder I stay away from the OT forum.

Enjoy folks...I'm going back to Main Discussion where at least the only
thing people bitch about is whether marketing method A or B is better.

I'm outta here.
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MichaelHiles

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

Know what? I'm fed up with this whole topic.

No wonder I stay away from the OT forum.

Enjoy folks...I'm going back to Main Discussion where at least the only
thing people bitch about is whether marketing method A or B is better.

I'm outta here.

I rest my case.

The difference between a guy like Steve and I is that I might disagree with Steve, I might think he's being really irrational and emotional over this issue, but I'd still buy him a beer and go on to the next topic.

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Marian Berghes

15 years ago

You talk about not getting personal and stuff, yet you are the one that quickly jumps in the fight in both threads.

If you were so "non-personal" in your debates, why do you keep contradicting everybody?

Do you feel the need to convince us that he was a child molester or something?

Cus it certainly seems that way...

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MichaelHiles

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Marian Berghes

You talk about not getting personal and stuff, yet you are the one that quickly jumps in the fight in both threads.

If you were so "non-personal" in your debates, why do you keep contradicting everybody?

Do you feel the need to convince us that he was a child molester or something?

Cus it certainly seems that way...

You must not have read all my posts where I repeatedly said I thought he was a tragedy, probably at the hands of his upbringing of his father, and that the other crazy things he did (like dangling his kid over a balcony) were as much a part of this. But there are those who call people dicks and haters merely for pointing out the opposing viewpoint... even though some of the viewpoint involves photographic evidence... see above.

The other Michael (Motley) was arguing the molestation issue a lot harder.

There's a huge difference between debating an issue and getting personal over it. Then again, a very large segment of the population interprets anyone who simply disagrees with them as being personal.

IMHO, It's usually impossible to carry on a rational discussion with those kinds of people because they believe everything they say to be gospel instead of adopting more of a Socratic method of discussion.

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Some Of The Members Here Leave A Bad Taste In My Mouth

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