How Did We Become An English Speaking World?

10 years ago

I took an entire class on the subject in college. Interesting stuff.

Amazon.com: The Adventure of English: The...

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WalkingCarpet

Banned 10 years ago

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Steven Wagenheim 10 years ago

Folks can we please try to keep politics out of this? Thank you.
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Rick Rodd

10 years ago

Originally Posted by WalkingCarpet

Brits did a fair job of conquering the world all them years back- that's how.

Somehow WalkingCarpet got a point. I just don't like the way he said it. It's misconstrued that the Great Roman Empire was the largest empire of all time, but actually the British conquered 22% of the world. (List of largest empires - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)

But truly, it paved way to a better understanding that the Great Roman Empire needed to unite the cluster of tribes they've conquered, and with that the birth of the Anglo-Saxon language. [I hope what I'm saying is making sense here]

So even though China has the world's largest speaking population, the implementation of the language to be taught and used as a medium of communication is a plus here.

Just a thought, the Mongol Empire came in second, yet they failed to establish their language. What if that became the dominant language?

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Richard Van

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Rick Rodd

But truly, it paved way to a better understanding that the Great Roman Empire needed to unite the cluster of tribes they've conquered, and with that the birth of the Anglo-Saxon language.

The Angles were here before the Saxons but both were Germanic tribes. Technically English is a dialect of two German tribes. The Anglo part of Anglo Saxon is often mistaken as being something to do with England.

This is an interesting video on the evolution of English.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=atI-JPGcF-k

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HN

Banned 10 years ago

Originally Posted by Richard Van

This is an interesting video on the evolution of English.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=atI-JPGcF-k

LOL 2:53 The word ATOM comes from Greek, meaning something that can't be devided any further. What a crock of nonsense! It's like saying the word Chameleon comes from Greek language. Seems this guy is a repeater and talking about the stuff he doesn't really know about.

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Richard Van

10 years ago

Originally Posted by HN

LOL 2:53 The word ATOM comes from Greek, meaning something that can't be devided any further. What a crock of nonsense! It's like saying the word Chameleon comes from Greek language. Seems this guy is a repeater and talking about the stuff he doesn't really know about.

Hi HN,

I hope you're feeling happy today and I apologise for the crock of shit of a video I linked to, please ignore it. Incidentally I just googled 'origin of the word atom' and it does appear to be of Greek origin (well, Google says it is so not necessarily true)

Forgive my small brain and it's futile ignorance but it says it comes from two Greek words a- (not) and temnein (to cut), this then became atmos (indivisible) which then became atome in old French then atom as we know it today.

Now that we know that's nonsense, can you at least educate us and tell us how it originated rather than just saying it's a crock of nonsense?

Excuse me being a repeater because I don't go around forums boasting about my intellect and don't actually know any of this but it appears Chameleon may be of Greek origin too - Khamai (on the ground) and leon (lion). It is when I search origin of chameleon on Google anyway.

If this is wrong then please contact Google as I suspect the crook of dog poo who presented this video may be doing the same.

Now don't call me a repeater, I already admitted I didn't know the true origin, I'm merely researching and asking you to show me the true etymology of the word so I can feel I've learned something today.

Many thanks

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Steven Wagenheim 10 years ago

Richard, don't feed the trolls. They grow like weeds and then we can never get rid of 'em.
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- Richard Van 10 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim
  
  Richard, don't feed the trolls. They grow like weeds and then we can never get rid of 'em.
  
  Sorry Steven, I'm not arguing with him either. I was just wondering where he thought the words came from originally.
  
  I find this all very interesting, both how English came about as a language and how it's spoken so widely today.
  
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HN

Banned 10 years ago

Originally Posted by Richard Van

Hi HN,

I hope you're feeling happy today and I apologise for the crock of shit of a video I linked to, please ignore it. Incidentally I just googled 'origin of the word atom' and it does appear to be of Greek origin (well, Google says it is so not necessarily true)

Forgive my small brain and it's futile ignorance but it says it comes from two Greek words a- (not) and temnein (to cut), this then became atmos (indivisible) which then became atome in old French then atom as we know it today.

Now that we know that's nonsense, can you at least educate us and tell us how it originated rather than just saying it's a crock of nonsense?

Excuse me being a repeater because I don't go around forums boasting about my intellect and don't actually know any of this but it appears Chameleon may be of Greek origin too - Khamai (on the ground) and leon (lion). It is when I search origin of chameleon on Google anyway.

If this is wrong then please contact Google as I suspect the crook of dog poo who presented this video may be doing the same.

Now don't call me a repeater, I already admitted I didn't know the true origin, I'm merely researching and asking you to show me the true etymology of the word so I can feel I've learned something today.

Many thanks

Richard, you have done no research. Googling for information is not doing a research. Have you looked any further than Greek and Latin languages for the origin? Perhaps you haven't even looked in any language yourself and referring to what others have done?
There's is no need to contact google. It's all over the place and every dictionary has got it wrong. When you question this repeated nonsense, they may even try to find an explanation but only come up with another nonsense like "maybe because of the creature’s somewhat scary face, or maybe because the ridge around the creature’s head looks something like a lion’s mane". No.

For example in Chinese the word chameleon is Biànsèlóng (Biàn = change, sè = color, lóng = dragon). Change color dragon. Does it make more sense than ground lion? And why ground? Why not tree lion? Since chameleons live in the trees. Or why not flying lion or water lion? Perhaps sea lion? No, this word doesn't originate from Chinese language, it's just an example to give a clue how to find the correct answer. Look for the source that actually makes sense.

In order to find the origin of this word you would need to find a language in which "khame leon" would have to do something with changing color. The ancient people were not dumb, they wouldn't call chameleon a ground lion. They knew a bit more than that about the nature that was surrounding them.

We do have a few linguists here. Perhaps they can tell you where the word chameleon actually comes from. It's not going to help, if there have learned from the books or professors that had this wrong in the first place, though.

The word ATOM.
Do you know why we call dark matter and dark energy dark? It's not that they are dark in color or opposite to light. Just like the dark ages were not dark because of absense of the light. People were dark. So are we too dark, or dumb to understand the dark matter. The word ATOM means dark in Old Egyptian. People knew there are tiny particles, but they could not look inside them back then, so they called them dark particles. ATOM can be divided. Atoms are composed of particles called protons, electrons and neutrons. Atoms give away and gain electrons. So they are not indivisible.

P.S. Imagine you have a crock of shit and a crock of honey, but someone has switched the labels. When you refer to Google or any dictionary it seems as is you are telling me that I am stupid, because I can't even read the labels. The fact that it doesn't smell like honey doesn't seem to bother you. After all the labels seem authentic.

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Dan Riffle

10 years ago

Originally Posted by HN

In order to find the origin of this word you would need to find a language in which "khame leon" would have to do something with changing color.

So, what you're saying is that the word "chameleon" was originated by Mortal Combat?

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HN

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Dan Riffle

10 years ago

Originally Posted by HN

If you are convinced that the wind blows because the leaves on the tree are moving then the answer is a definite yes.

That sounds like a yes.

You talk like Mr. Miyagi. That's kinda cool.

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HN

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Dan Riffle

10 years ago

Originally Posted by HN

Do you also prefer to believe that the origin of the word Chameleon is Lion on the Ground, rather than Color Protection (Protected by Color)?

Have you got anything else to add on topic? Otherwise I 'll have to do just what Steven suggested:

The topic of you disputing the origin of words by providing little in the way of supporting your point? No, I have nothing else to say.

Feeding trolls is like picking your nose in public: you know you shouldn't do it, but every once in a while you just have to.

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TimPhelan

10 years ago

Interesting thread. HM, you make a good point about the origin of chameleon. I agree that "ground lion" doesn't make sense.

However I think you are off base on the origin of atom. Yes, the atom can be divided. We know that now, but the Greek philosopher Democritus back in around 440 BC believed the opposite. He came up with a theory that all matter is made up of particles too small to see and that this matter could not be divided. Even though the original word was wrong about the indivisibility of the atom the name stuck. Democritus reportedly was the one who used the word atomos to describe his theory.

Originally Posted by HN

In order to find the origin of this word you would need to find a language in which "khame leon" would have to do something with changing color. The ancient people were not dumb, they wouldn't call chameleon a ground lion. They knew a bit more than that about the nature that was surrounding them...
The word ATOM.
Do you know why we call dark matter and dark energy dark? It's not that they are dark in color or opposite to light. Just like the dark ages were not dark because of absense of the light. People were dark. So are we too dark, or dumb to understand the dark matter. The word ATOM means dark in Old Egyptian. People knew there are tiny particles, but they could not look inside them back then, so they called them dark particles. ATOM can be divided. Atoms are composed of particles called protons, electrons and neutrons. Atoms give away and gain electrons. So they are not indivisible.

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seasoned

10 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

Interesting thread. HM, you make a good point about the origin of chameleon. I agree that "ground lion" doesn't make sense.

However I think you are off base on the origin of atom. Yes, the atom can be divided. We know that now, but the Greek philosopher Democritus back in around 440 BC believed the opposite. He came up with a theory that all matter is made up of particles too small to see and that this matter could not be divided. Even though the original word was wrong about the indivisibility of the atom the name stuck. Democritus reportedly was the one who used the word atomos to describe his theory.

In a way, the atom CAN'T be divided! If it is, the element becomes a different thing.

Steve

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HN

Banned 10 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

Interesting thread. HM, you make a good point about the origin of chameleon. I agree that "ground lion" doesn't make sense.

However I think you are off base on the origin of atom. Yes, the atom can be divided. We know that now, but the Greek philosopher Democritus back in around 440 BC believed the opposite. He came up with a theory that all matter is made up of particles too small to see and that this matter could not be divided. Even though the original word was wrong about the indivisibility of the atom the name stuck. Democritus reportedly was the one who used the word atomos to describe his theory.

He used the word, but where did the word come from? Again, in Arabic Atom means "dark, hidden, unseen, secret". We call dark matter something that we can't see.
Is it logical to assume that he called something too small to see an ATOM meaning 'hidden, dark, unseen'? The fact that he used the word ATOM in 440BC doesn't mean he came up with the word. Or that it originated from atomos indevisible. Why call something that you can't even see indivisible when you can call it what it is: hidden, unseen?

There are thousands of words which origin is falsely attributed to Greek or Latin, but which actually originated from Arabic.
Eg. CAMEL, Google says nothing about the origin except it comes from Greek kamelos.
https://www.google.ee/search?q=camel+etymology

In Arabic ملأ (mala) means to fill up, حمل (khamela) means to carry a load
https://translate.google.com/#ar/en/%D8%AD%D9%85%D9%84

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HN

Banned 10 years ago

Originally Posted by Richard Van

Forgive my small brain and it's futile ignorance but it says it comes from two Greek words a- (not) and temnein (to cut), this then became atmos (indivisible) which then became atome in old French then atom as we know it today.

And what do you think the word temnein means?
темный (temnei) means dark in Russian.

https://translate.google.com/#ru/en/...BD%D1%8B%D0%B9

So you are really insisting atoms are indivisible?

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Richard Van

10 years ago

Originally Posted by HN

And what do you think the word temnein means?
темный (temnei) means dark in Russian.

https://translate.google.com/#ru/en/...BD%D1%8B%D0%B9

So you are really insisting atoms are indivisible?

Learn Ancient Greek then come back to me. Did you just quote Google then?

You're such a yawn.

And fun. Trollololol.

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- Dan Riffle 10 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by HN
  
  You are fun to observe. It's like visiting a zoo.
  
  That was a well reasoned and clever comeback, HN. You likened Richard to a stupid animal. The way your mind makes connections is astounding!
  
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  Tom B Banned 10 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Dan Riffle
  
  That was a well reasoned and clever comeback, HN. You likened Richard to a stupid animal. The way your mind makes connections is astounding!
  
  Dan, I take it your zoo only has stupid animals. That is too bad because our zoos have animals that can do this.
  
  Just a bear walking upright like a human - YouTube
  
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- Richard Van 10 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by HN
  
  You are fun to observe. It's like visiting a zoo.
  
  You can't observe me silly man. We're on the binternets.
  
  Another word you don't understand.
  
  What a sad Friday you've had but I do appreciate the brief interludes from my pint you've provided me to have a laugh.
  
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  Karen Blundell 10 years ago
  
  language has always fascinated me but what is also fascinating is the influence of the media - because of the power of media, the whole world got introduced to Hollywood movies and the music industry - and therefore learning English was "cool" because you could understand the dialogue in the movies and the lyrics of songs.
  
  So I think the entertainment industry was and still is more than partly responsible for our English-speaking world.
  
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Kurt

10 years ago

Do you have a flag? - Eddie Izzard - YouTube

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Gasen

10 years ago

Found this on BBC:

BBC News - How English evolved into a global language

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Tom B

Banned 10 years ago

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

I'm not a history buff or anything like that. I know nothing about the origins of language. But I do know this much. There are a lot of languages in the world and I'm sure some of them are at least as old if not older than English. So, with the United Kingdom and The United States being a relatively small part of this planet, how did we become a predominately English speaking world?

Does anybody know? Will any answers be just theory or are there any facts out there to support those theories?

Just curious.

** EDIT ** Please stick to the topic. I will report every post that tries to turn this political. What's going on in the world today has nothing to do with how we became an English speaking world which happened decades ago if not longer. Please, no politics. It is NOT relevant to this topic.

Sure, US and UK is small part of the world, but when you add in Canada and Australia you have some pretty big countries with big economies. I would think that was a major reason English became what is known as the "Business Language".

You also see many people rushing to learn Chinese for the same reasons.

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HeySal

10 years ago

How Did We Become An English Speaking World?

Wish you could convince the illegals here of that one.

Simply put - it was the expansion of the English Empire, and later the global status of the US that did it.

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Alex Blades

10 years ago

Originally Posted by HeySal

Wish you could convince the illegals here of that one.

Way to trash the thread and go off topic with that political b.s.

Re: How Did We Become An English Speaking World?

I guess who ever has the most influence at the time. I'm sure the Romans had the most dominate language at one time. Had the U.S not joined WW2, the dominate language would have been German, so who ever has the most influence in the world tends to have their language used the most.

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HeySal

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Alex Blades

Way to trash the thread and go off topic with that political b.s.

I guess who ever has the most influence at the time. I'm sure the Romans had the most dominate language at one time. Had the U.S not joined WW2, the dominate language would have been German, so who ever has the most influence in the world tends to have their language used the most.

Okay - I accept the lashing. I was out of line. Just having a very sore spot rubbed on the subject of diglossia rapidly becoming dysglossia. I'll stfu now.

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MissTerraK 10 years ago

Originally Posted by HeySal

Okay - I accept the lashing. I was out of line. Just having a very sore spot rubbed on the subject of diglossia rapidly becoming dysglossia. I'll stfu now.

Ha!

I guess I spoke too late, lol!

Terra
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Alex Blades 10 years ago

Originally Posted by HeySal

Okay - I accept the lashing. I was out of line. Just having a very sore spot rubbed on the subject of diglossia rapidly becoming dysglossia. I'll stfu now.

It seems like everything in this section of the forum, turns into political rants. I love discussing politics with friends, but some of you guys go just go on and on about the same stuff to the point where it's not even a discussion anymore, it's turns into a bitching match.

I wasn't trying to be mean, but man, that stuff gets annoying after a while. Can't we all just get along
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MissTerraK 10 years ago

Originally Posted by Alex Blades

Way to trash the thread and go off topic with that political b.s.

I think you misinterpreted her meaning. We are an English speaking nation, are we not? I mean, when we were founded, English was the language, correct?

So therefore, those that come into our nation to stay should speak English rather than having everyone else learn to speak, Spanish, French, German, Mandarin, Chinese, Hungarian, Greek...well, I'm sure you get my drift.

No political b.s. there, just common sense.

Terra
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Lance K

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Alex Blades

Way to trash the thread and go off topic with that political b.s.

Seems a bit hyper-sensitive to take Sal's comment as political. If you're tired of political b.s., that's fine. But you took a light-hearted comment and decided it was political.

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Alex Blades

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Lance K

Seems a bit hyper-sensitive to take Sal's comment as political. If you're tired of political b.s., that's fine. But you took a light-hearted comment and decided it was political.

So if wasn't a political comment, then what was it? Come on now

I've seen her use similar comments in other political threads. We get it, she doesn't like Illegals who don't speak English, what does it have to do with this thread.

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Steven Wagenheim

10 years ago

Leave a thread for a couple of hours and it all goes to heck in a hand cart.

All that good wine shot to hell.

Mods, lock it up. People here just don't know how to play nice and follow rules.

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Alex Blades

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

Leave a thread for a couple of hours and it all goes to heck in a hand cart.

All that good wine shot to hell.

Mods, lock it up. People here just don't know how to play nice and follow rules.

I apologize for wrecking your thread, it's just these political rants have become annoying. I should have contained myself.

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Lance K 10 years ago

Originally Posted by Alex Blades

So if wasn't a political comment, then what was it? Come on now

Perhaps simply an observation or a joke. She went on to answer the question after that comment. I guess I just don't go around looking for political undertones in the comments of others. Probably because I don't discuss politics on here and don't pay much attention to those who do. I have no problem with you being fed up with political discussions on here. Like I said, it just seemed a tad hyper-sensitive to me to respond to a one liner in that manner. But you've obviously had more experience with the politics down here than I have.

I don't have a dog in that hunt, so I'll leave the discussion to the topic of the OP now.
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HeySal

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Alex Blades

So if wasn't a political comment, then what was it? Come on now

I've seen her use similar comments in other political threads. We get it, she doesn't like Illegals who don't speak English, what does it have to do with this thread.

I'm a sociolinguist, so actually, it was a language issue to me more than a political one. The fact is that people from almost every country in politics and high levels of business do speak English. Unfortunately, the lower classes in the US don't and it makes the nation dysfunctional. Diglossia is accepted in many countries - but not at the business and political levels. To deal with a country effectively, one must speak the "official" language when dealing in "official" capacity, and the language of the majority in all other matters.

English was adopted as a common denominator because of the standing of America as a superpower and trade dominating nation. Chinese never had a chance for that standing even though it would be apropos now in light of their trade status. Unfortunately, it's a tonal language, and those are only spoken in the East, and the written language is morbidly sinuous, and the spoken language is different enough from the mindset (worldview) of non-tonal languages that even if most could spit out a few words of it, the full semantics would never be fully understood by non-tonal first language speakers, just as most people can learn the native American languages, but can't fully understand the semantic tenure because they are verb-based.

A dominant language for international politics and trade has to be a language that has a semantic base understandable to the majority of nations in league with the system. The problem is much more sinuous than can be stated in a forum post.

Aren't ya just damned glad ya asked now?

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Joe Mobley

10 years ago

The reason that most of the influential world speaks English is because England has invaded every country on the planet except 22.

A new study has found that at various times the British have invaded almost 90 per cent of the countries around the globe. The analysis of the histories of the almost 200 countries in the world found only 22 which have never experienced an invasion by the British.

how many countries has England invaded

At the time of their "liberation" of other countries, England was (or dang near) the most powerful country in the world. To do business, big business or International business was to deal with England.

Just my opinion.

Joe Mobley

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MissTerraK 10 years ago

Well, I can't speak for the rest of the world, but as for me, I speak English because my parents, grandparents, well, my whole family spoke it and taught it to me.

It was a wonderful thing really, because the whole neighborhood spoke it as well as all my teachers, and classmates, all my doctors and the people in all of the stores, gas stations, and the ice cream lady that drove the ice cream truck! I can't imagine being taught a different language and then trying to order a Nutty Buddy Cone from her.

It's really quite convenient, actually.

Terra
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Richard Van 10 years ago

Originally Posted by Joe Mobley

The reason that most of the influential world speaks English is because England has invaded every country on the planet except 22.

Just my opinion.

Yes that's quite right.

When however anyone ever manages to forgive the generations after who had nothing to do with it will of course depend on human kinds ability to gather some intelligence for once in it's history.

Fascinates me how people, and I don't necessarily mean you Joe, carry so much hate for other countries when everyone that did anything to their long dead ancestors are also long dead themselves.
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Alex Blades

10 years ago

I think you misinterpreted her meaning. We are an English speaking nation, are we not? I mean, when we were founded, English was the language, correct?

The topic isn't even about a nation

How Did We Become An English Speaking World?

The OP went out of way to ask that people keep politics out of it, and stay on topic. Can we have one thread with someone turning it into a political rant

If you want everyone to speak English, then round them up, tie them down, and force them to watch Rosetta Stone videos, instead of whining about it on every other thread. I wish everyone in the world would speak English, so I can understand them when I call customer service, but this isn't burger, we can't have it our way.

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MissTerraK

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Alex Blades

The topic isn't even about a nation

The OP went out of way to ask that people keep politics out of it, and stay on topic. Can we have one thread with someone turning it into a political rant

Well to me, my nation is my world. =P

And it's always about me, don't you know, lol!

I wish we could, but what Sal just said wasn't as bad as some of the political b.s. that gets slung around here and quite frankly, I didn't see it as political. But hey, that's just me.

Yes, it would be a whole new world here if no political bashing ever took place. Right vs Left is what gets to me.

Terra

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Frank Donovan

10 years ago

Most estimates I've seen place English as the third most spoken language in the world (after Mandarin and Spanish) by number of native speakers.

If second languages are taken into account, English might just overtake Spanish, but Mandarin would still be far out front.

Infographic: The Most Widely Spoken Languages in the World | RedLine

List of languages by total number of speakers - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

List of languages by number of native speakers - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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Alex Blades

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Frank Donovan

Most estimates I've seen place English as the third most spoken language in the world (after Mandarin and Spanish) by number of native speakers.

If second languages are taken into account, English might just overtake Spanish, but Mandarin would still be far out front.

Infographic: The Most Widely Spoken Languages in the World | RedLine

List of languages by total number of speakers - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

List of languages by number of native speakers - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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I've always suspected Spanish, but wasn't sure, speaking English has it's advantages though. I wouldn't be surprised if English overtakes Spanish and Mandarin in the near future.

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David Neale

10 years ago

True Frank but I believe you can make a strong argument that English is far more influential throughout the world and if you looked at the number of countries that speak English versus Spanish or Mandarin that English is THE global language.

Just counting the number of speakers doesn't address the dominance of a language globally.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...r_of_countries)

PS: Don't forget that English is one of the official languages of India as well (1.25 billion people)

Originally Posted by Frank Donovan

Most estimates I've seen place English as the third most spoken language in the world (after Mandarin and Spanish) by number of native speakers.

If second languages are taken into account, English might just overtake Spanish, but Mandarin would still be far out front.

Infographic: The Most Widely Spoken Languages in the World | RedLine

List of languages by total number of speakers - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

List of languages by number of native speakers - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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TimPhelan

10 years ago

Frank, English is behind as far as native spoken, however that second link you posted does say "Totaling about 1.5 billion or 1.8 billion speakers, English... is the most widely spoken language in the world, and the most widely taught foreign language"

Originally Posted by Frank Donovan

Most estimates I've seen place English as the third most spoken language in the world (after Mandarin and Spanish) by number of native speakers.

If second languages are taken into account, English might just overtake Spanish, but Mandarin would still be far out front.

Infographic: The Most Widely Spoken Languages in the World | RedLine

List of languages by total number of speakers - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

List of languages by number of native speakers - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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Frank Donovan

10 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

Frank, English is behind as far as native spoken, however that second link you posted does say "Totaling about 1.5 billion or 1.8 billion speakers, English... is the most widely spoken language in the world, and the most widely taught foreign language"

That's true, Tim. It also warns: "...because of large uncertainties in estimating the number of secondary speakers, all such lists should be used with caution. In particular, the lists below should be seen as tentative."

I was simply hoping to offer a degree of perspective to the notion that it's an English-speaking world. And I didn't even include dolphins, whales or other mammals as further support.

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TimPhelan 10 years ago

Originally Posted by Frank Donovan

And I didn't even include dolphins, whales or other mammals as further support.

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Don't forget the dogs:

Ultimate Dog Tease - YouTube
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yukon

Banned 10 years ago

Originally Posted by Alex Blades

The topic isn't even about a nation

The OP went out of way to ask that people keep politics out of it, and stay on topic. Can we have one thread with someone turning it into a political rant

If you want everyone to speak English, then round them up, tie them down, and force them to watch Rosetta Stone videos, instead of whining about it on every other thread. I wish everyone in the world would speak English, so I can understand them when I call customer service, but this isn't burger, we can't have it our way.

Your late to the game, US public schools have been forcing kids to learn a 2nd language for years.

Force someone to learn English in the US & it suddenly becomes a violation of their rights.

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Alex Blades 10 years ago

Originally Posted by yukon

Your late to the game, public schools have been forcing kids to learn a 2nd language for years.

Here in the U.S? My kids were never forced to learn any other languages in school, although I wouldn't mind if they spoke more than one language. I am of Spanish descent and my kids can't speak a lick of Spanish

Force someone to learn English in the US & it suddenly becomes a violation of their rights.

That is not true, school don't force kids to speak other languages.
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Alex Blades

10 years ago

Yes, it would be a whole new world here if no political bashing ever took place. Right vs Left is what gets to me

I shake my head, every time I see Republicans and Democrats bashing each other. I mean when did America become a two state country? We have enough problems to worry about, and need every American on board.

" A house divided against itself cannot stand " ~ Abraham Lincoln

A person who can't speak English is the least of our problems. The people we have to worry about don't even speak English, they speak Russian, Chinese and other non English languages.

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travlinguy

10 years ago

History tells the story. The Romans and Spaniards were the first Europeans that plundered and pillaged worldwide. And during their relatively short reigns, much of the world adopted their languages, which, by the way, has many similarities.

After Spain fell from favor the British took their turn. And they were very efficient conquerors. "The sun never sets on the British empire" was the word for many years. And if that wasn't enough, there were those American upstarts that continued the imperialistic tradition as British influence waned. And while all this was happening English emerged as a dominant language worldwide.

And then we had the post WWII boom, which sort of by default, showcased American culture. Though most won't admit it today, lots of countries and their people wanted to be like Americans. Huge segments of the global population began to offer English as their second language in schools and universities. American celebrities were worshiped. English was in. And it stuck for a long time.

All that's changing now. But to go into that properly it would be necessary to bring politics into the discussion. And dat ain't allowed here.

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Alex Blades

10 years ago

The reason that most of the influential world speaks English is because England has invaded every country on the planet except 22.

I think that has alot to do with it, that was the first thing that came to mind

They are the reason we speak English here. I guess you can say the U.S was still swimming in the England's nuts, when the English ruled the world

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seasoned

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

I'm not a history buff or anything like that. I know nothing about the origins of language. But I do know this much. There are a lot of languages in the world and I'm sure some of them are at least as old if not older than English. So, with the United Kingdom and The United States being a relatively small part of this planet, how did we become a predominately English speaking world?

Does anybody know? Will any answers be just theory or are there any facts out there to support those theories?

Just curious.

** EDIT ** Please stick to the topic. I will report every post that tries to turn this political. What's going on in the world today has nothing to do with how we became an English speaking world which happened decades ago if not longer. Please, no politics. It is NOT relevant to this topic.

Frankly, I think it is because of WWII, and how things evolved after that. I don't think that, before that, many spoke english. Japan, even when I was a kid, didn't seem to be adept with english.

And the US and UK were considered the 2 main superpowers of the free world.

Of course, with the UK colonizing everywhere, and the US being such a HUGE market and supplier, learning English was just the smart thing to do. This is meant as NO insult to other nations. HECK, there were parts of the world prior to WWII which learned German for similar reasons, and plenty that learned french for similar reasons. And those languages adopted from other languages.

As for the age of languages? English is considered a GERMANIC language! So German is like a great grandfather to English. I guess you could say that Danish is like its grandmother. And GERMAN is certainly not the oldest. We may never know what the first language was,or how it looked.

Steve

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hardraysnight 10 years ago

it became an english speaking world because everyone wants to talk to me, politics be damned
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bigborker

10 years ago

A few thoughts on this coming from an American living on a small island to the South of China (Chinese with lots of Russians and Filipinos):

1. MTV, NBA, KFC, McDonald's, Coca-Cola, iPhone: American branding has established itself as a global phenomenon.

2. China has embraced English as THE secondary language to learn. Chinese itself is a very difficult language to learn to speak, and requires learning 2-3,000 characters to read and write at a minimal level: English requires 26.

3. The popularity of computers and the Internet largely flourished in America - English is the underlying language of most popular coding languages.

The island I live on has people from many nationalities, yet even Chinese and Russians who cannot communicate in their native languages with each other can use English to have a simple conversation.

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seasoned

10 years ago

Originally Posted by bigborker

A few thoughts on this coming from an American living on a small island to the South of China (Chinese with lots of Russians and Filipinos):

1. MTV, NBA, KFC, McDonald's, Coca-Cola, iPhone: American branding has established itself as a global phenomenon.

2. China has embraced English as THE secondary language to learn. Chinese itself is a very difficult language to learn to speak, and requires learning 2-3,000 characters to read and write at a minimal level: English requires 26.

3. The popularity of computers and the Internet largely flourished in America - English is the underlying language of most popular coding languages.

The island I live on has people from many nationalities, yet even Chinese and Russians who cannot communicate in their native languages with each other can use English to have a simple conversation.

As I recall, Russians actually LEARN English in school. Chinese may also. Frankly, if I were chinese or russian I would want to learn english as it would seem, on the surface, easier, and it is a major power often perceived as a threat. My SECOND foreign language would be the one of the three I was lacking.

The spread of english, even in russia and china, predates computers as they are known today.

As for the brands, IMAGINE how much more they could put out, and at a lower cost, if they could use a SIMPLE language(like english), and had no special laws to abide by! I mean it may cost them HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of dollars USD, to get a staff to determine advertising, labeling, and get equipment to produce just ONE regions products. Even doing EUROPEAN languages, for an american company, is a chore. They only relatively recently started switching to unicode.

Steve

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HN

Banned 10 years ago

Originally Posted by bigborker

2. China has embraced English as THE secondary language to learn. Chinese itself is a very difficult language to learn to speak, and requires learning 2-3,000 characters to read and write at a minimal level: English requires 26.

Chinese is a difficult language to learn?
Chinese has no verbal inflections, no gender, number and case endings for nouns, no tense, in short, none of the features we normally associate with grammar

In other words in Chinese you would say
I be boy.
We be boy. (no plural)
I be young yesterday.
He be dumb today.
You be old tomorrow.

That is a difficult language to learn? Most of the words consist of just 2 syllables. How difficult is that to memorize? There are total 1640 different syllables with tone, but only about 410 usable ones.

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seasoned

10 years ago

Originally Posted by HN

Chinese is a difficult language to learn?
Chinese has no verbal inflections, no gender, number and case endings for nouns, no tense, in short, none of the features we normally associate with grammar

In other words in Chinese you would say
I be boy.
We be boy. (no plural)
I be young yesterday.
He be dumb today.
You be old tomorrow.

That is a difficult language to learn? Most of the words consist of just 2 syllables. How difficult is that to memorize? There are total 1640 different syllables with tone, but only about 410 usable ones.

If only it were that simple. An incorrect pitch change can cause a lot of problems. The symbols can be daunting. YEAH, by your reasoning, russian and danish would be easy. As I recall, chinese have trouble with danish. I have a danish aunt that used to help with such things. I have heard of some people having trouble with russian.

BTW

DANISH ENGLISH
Jeg skriver I write
Du/De skriver You write
Han skriver He writes
Hun skriver She writes
Det skriver They write
Vi skriver we write

Jeg/du/han/hun/Det/Vi er I am/you are/he is/she is/they are/we are

They DO have interesting articles though!

skibet The ship
et skib a ship

Steve

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HN

Banned 10 years ago

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Richard Van

10 years ago

Hi HN,

I'm at the pub now. Friday night, I enjoy myself then. I may read your response later when I'm bored, if I can get bored on a Friday, if not perhaps tomorrow.

I know it'll be your usual brand of argumental nonsense though. I just logged on and saw you'd answered in great lengths so I ignored it in favour of my beer, good friends and a fun weekend.

Try and enjoy yours too and I'll read you little comeback tomorrow. It was fun watching Dan toy with you too. You're almost becoming fun but not now, not when I've a nice cold beer on a barmy sunny evening.

Let's play the trollololol song.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2Z4m4lnjxkY

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Alexa Smith

Banned 10 years ago

Originally Posted by Richard Van

I'm at the pub now. Friday night, I enjoy myself then. I may read your response later when I'm bored, if I can get bored on a Friday, if not perhaps tomorrow.

I'd give it a miss, if I were you. Unless you decide it's worth it just for the amusement value of seeing how you were yourself rather patronisingly attacked for using and quoting from Google by someone who then linked to Google himself, not long afterwards, to justfy his own perspective: I'd grant you that that aspect of it's quite amusing.

And have a good weekend ...

Originally Posted by Dan Riffle

Feeding trolls is like picking your nose in public: you know you shouldn't do it, but every once in a while you just have to.

Oops

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paulsavola

10 years ago

that is because the English speaking people don't want learn the other languages. They think English speaking have more power over the world than the rest of the world.

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Richard Van

10 years ago

Originally Posted by paulsavola

that is because the English speaking people don't want learn the other languages. They think English speaking have more power over the world than the rest of the world.

Now here's a wonderfully unintelligent comment.

So, in your 'opinion', all English speaking people, which could include all people with English as a second language and considering in England alone you have to to learn French and German at school, you think (and I use that word very loosely in your particular case) that all English speaking people think they have more power over the rest of the world?

Good grief. I've read some generalisation nonsense on this forum before but you've just topped it.

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socialentry

Banned 10 years ago

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

** EDIT ** Please stick to the topic. I will report every post that tries to turn this political. What's going on in the world today has nothing to do with how we became an English speaking world which happened decades ago if not longer. Please, no politics. It is NOT relevant to this topic.