Selling nutrition? Will Codex Alimentarius shut you down 2010?

[Michael Motley]

Thousands of people have put cancer into remission using traditional and non traditional means. Thats not overcoming cancer, thats just putting off the inevitable.

[ThomM]

Originally Posted by TelegramSam

I'm sorry, but if you are saying that we can't (most likely) live longer healthier lives, by following and adopting a healthier lifestyle, then you are talking absolute nonsense.

I'm not saying that at all. All I'm saying is when it is your time to die you will.
This ain't rocket science it's a simple fact.
Are you saying you won't die?

[Michael Motley]

Originally Posted by TelegramSam

I'm sorry, but if you are saying that we can't (most likely) live longer healthier lives, by following and adopting a healthier lifestyle, then you are talking absolute nonsense.

In some cases you can, in some cases you can't. There are plenty of examples of people who live great healthy lives but still die ridiculously young. My grandmother is a perfect example. Never drank, smoked, alwaysa in pretty decent shape, had a great diet, very active, died in her early 50's from colon cancer. Nature isnt a force that is stopped by bran muffins and walking an hour a day.

And on the other hand, my great grandfather drank heavily, smoked cigars, lived to 85.

We like to think we know how to manipulate nature with our fad diets and exercise programs. I'm sure that amuses nature to no end.

[ThomM]

Exactly Mike, I'm glad to see at least one person here understands this stupidly simple fact.

[TelegramSam]

You two guys need to team up and call yourself the "Pessmistic Twins".

For every unusual case who dies early even though they lived healthily, or who lived a long life but drank like a fish etc, there are thousands of others lying in hospital telling you the real facts about how your lifestyle affects your health.

I suggest you go and have a look together and when you have REALLY seen these facts you may change your minds.

Maybe you could even end up in a bed, in a ward next to each other. You can then tell each other just how right you were.

Obviously my words have whistled past your ears like a buzzing mosquito heading for a bright light.

[ThomM]

Originally Posted by TelegramSam

You two guys need to team up and call yourself the "Pessmistic Twins".

For every unusual case who dies early even though they lived healthily, or who lived a long life but drank like a fish etc, there are thousands of others lying in hospital telling you the real facts about how your lifestyle affects your health.

I suggest you go and have a look together and when you have REALLY seen these facts you may change your minds.

Maybe you could even end up in a bed, in a ward next to each other. You can then tell each other just how right you were.

Obviously my words have whistled past your ears like a buzzing mosquito heading for a bright light.

Obviously you don't have a clue as to what my statement means.
You seem to think I'm saying that you can do whatever you want and it doesn't matter.
When all I am saying is that we all at some time will die.
Stop trying to read more into that statement then what is there.

[TelegramSam]

Originally Posted by ThomM

Obviously you don't have a clue as to what my statement means.
You seem to think I'm saying that you can do whatever you want and it doesn't matter.
When all I am saying is that we all at some time will die.
Stop trying to read more into that statement then what is there.

Obviously not then...

[ThomM]

Originally Posted by TelegramSam

Obviously not then...

O.K. I'll try to make this so simple even you can understand it.

Do you think you will ever die?
Here's a hint to the answer, say yes.
That is the only point I was trying to make.

[TelegramSam]

Ahhhh, now I get it.

Sheesh. I knew I missed something at nursery school.

[ThomM]

I think you missed quit a bit.

[TelegramSam]

Now I know what I don't know, so that is progress :-)

[HeySal]

Originally Posted by MikeAmbrosio

Well, we're heading for socialized medicine, aren't we? We'll all be paying for everyone's health care before long.

That bothers me WAY more than this Codex debate...

What scares me is the combo of the two. Soon you won't be able to get real nutrition - and there is a clause in the social med that allows the gov to tell doctors who they are NOT allowed to treat. Conform or die, more or less.
Then we have the gardening laws coming in, too.

Within the next year we might take our place as the most controlled population ever in the history of the planet.


Now you people get off Mike......if you have followed him long enough you know he also laughed at every one of us who were predicting an economic crisis - I believe the word he used was "conspiracy nut case". He has laughed at the thought of a few things that have already transpired so if he wants to continue gaffawing, then let him continue to do so. No one is forced to listen to any opinion on here - even those which are based solidly in fact and grounded in actions already being taken. He is just as able to read as the rest of us and if he isn't concerned about what legislation is doing - then it will be his own problem very soon. If he didn't learn to humble his opinions from being wrong about the economic crash - just take some humor from his railings and get over it.

CODEX has already been signed in -- they waited until 2010 to activate it because of their other little social engineering "adjustments" that needed to be worked first.
They are putting the polishing touches on everything now.

And - off topic health --
You do realize that pollution produces calories as well, yes? Any plant/animal derivative pollutant (petroleum/coal are the majors here and includes plastics, fibers - all sorts of crap) is recognizable as "nutrition" by the body and stored in the fat cells - where because of it's alterations, it does not act normally and it will shut down fat control systems at the cellular level -- which means suddenly it is completely impossible for a person to lose weight. It also screws with DNA and causes many syndromes and diseases.
The only way we can relieve ourselves of these pollutants is to go back to natural - and our population levels are too high to supply everyone with naturals. Make your own inferences from that statement - I have become severely bored with being labeled a "nut case".

Whoever it was in an early portion of this thread that told me spread the word -- if you read the other CODEX thread in the OT, you will find I was active in spreading the word in 2005 when the danger first arose. The gov got 50 mil letters (that's just letters, didn't include emails and phone calls) and still marched their self righteous little asses over to Italy and signed this proclamation. Here it is almost 5 years later and about 10 purposefully harmful acts to our freedoms uncovered and how many unconstitutional laws signed? People who are not awake now - aren't going to wake up. IF they are still that programmed and niave, let them suffer the consequences. I'm learning how to save my own behind and am not concerned with saving those so mentally dysfunctional that they can't read a bill yet can laugh at people who are concerned about it's possible and eventual reprecussions. I'm not going to waste my time busting slip programming.

[HeySal]

BTW - Thom -- you are absolutely correct. The fluoride that is purposely dumped into our water is extremely poisonous and is industrial waste. There is fluoride that naturally occurs in water, too. You would have to be an idiot to think you could have fluoride in surrounding rocks and they wouldn't leach into the water. One form of fluoride is sodium and the other is something else, I forget, and I can't remember which is the natural form but I think it's the soduim. I am not sure that either is actually good for you, but the natural form is not deadly - the dumped form requires hazmat suits for the people at the water plants working with it.

You remember that rock with the pretty light green crystals in it that I picked up at that mine in NH? THAT is fluoride in the crystalized state. Anyone drinking water from that area is going to have natural fluoride in their water because it's a natural mineral to that area. I would think that in your area if there is any natural fluoride it's a very minute quantity as the mineral isn't really indigenous where you are.

HTH.

[ThomM]

Originally Posted by TelegramSam

Now I know what I don't know, so that is progress :-)

It's all good Sam.
Hell if we where having this conversation in person we both would of been laughing at it a long time ago

[ThomM]

Originally Posted by HeySal

BTW - Thom -- you are absolutely correct. The fluoride that is purposely dumped into our water is extremely poisonous and is industrial waste. There is fluoride that naturally occurs in water, too. You would have to be an idiot to think you could have fluoride in surrounding rocks and they wouldn't leach into the water. One form of fluoride is sodium and the other is something else, I forget, and I can't remember which is the natural form but I think it's the soduim. I am not sure that either is actually good for you, but the natural form is not deadly - the dumped form requires hazmat suits for the people at the water plants working with it.

You remember that rock with the pretty light green crystals in it that I picked up at that mine in NH? THAT is fluoride in the crystalized state. Anyone drinking water from that area is going to have natural fluoride in their water because it's a natural mineral to that area. I would think that in your area if there is any natural fluoride it's a very minute quantity as the mineral isn't really indigenous where you are.

HTH.

And you thought I never listened when you talked here
Did you leave that rock here?
I know you left some pretty neat ones, but you also know I don't know rocks.

[HeySal]

No one gets agitated if they aren't listening, Thom,

Nope - I have it right here in my bookcase. I'm not in the areas with fluoride crystals any too often so I kept that one. I took my best fossils, too but left a few - some quartz crystals that needed cleaning (and I wish I had brought). If you soak those in
muratic acid it will clean them up - but make sure you know how to do it first. Just
drop me an email if you want to clean them and I'll tell you how. You got some of those grossulars (garnets), etc. AND - you have my rock that says HI. I can't believe I forgot that one, Hahahahahahahaha - it should be parked appropriately...at your doorstep.

Sorry...........back to CODEX everyone.

[TimPhelan]

How are they different Thom? Is one more potent than the other?

I'm saying certain levels are safe.

Actually I didn't say the natural types of fluoride in water are safe. Just the opposite actually. I said sometimes they have to lower the levels. That's why they had those ugly looking brown teeth in Colorado.

Originally Posted by ThomM

My point with the fluoride that everyone here seems to be missing or passing over is that there are different types of fluoride and the types that are in water naturally and the types that are added by man are totally different.
You are basically saying that fluoride in water is safe, and the natural types of fluoride in water are. The others are saying that fluoride in water is dangerous and the types that are put in by man may well be.
Neither side is acknowledging that you are talking about different types of fluoride.

[HeySal]

Tim - very low levels are safe - but we're talking levels like .04ppm which is the amount in breast milk. Both industrial waste fluoride (which is the sodium) and natural will mottle teeth - it's call fluorosis, and about 1/3 of the population now shows signs of fluorosis. When you start seeing that you have toxic levels and your teeth are the last thing you need to worry about at that point - you can replace a tooth with a fake - but there's a lot of things that fluoride will do to you that you will never be able to fix -if you live long enough to fix it.

[TimPhelan]

So one third of the population has brown teeth? I guess I live in a different area. Where are these people?

Originally Posted by HeySal

Both industrial waste fluoride (which is the sodium) and natural will mottle teeth - it's call fluorosis, and about 1/3 of the population now shows signs of fluorosis.

[Vikuna2009+]

Originally Posted by Vikuna2009+
You live a very fortunate life Mike (I've been there many, many times myself) but some people do depend on their vitamins and now its going to be so much harder, not to mention expensive.

Originally Posted by Michael Motley

if you 'depend' on vitamins then you need to stop eating your food from a styrofoam box. Plus the supplement market has absolutely no regulation. You dont know if you're getting the right doseage or even the advertised dosage.

No, I do not depend on vitamins but what I do is UNDERSTAND the ramifications (both health-wise and money-wise) that implementing the Codex Alimentarius will have on the human race.

And NO, I do not eat my food from a styro foam box , far from it as a matter of fact, lol.

[Michael Motley]

Then you are cooking your foods to much or not eating the right foods. If you are eating the right foods and preparing them correctly, unless you have some specific issue that is making you extraordinarily vitamin deficient, you dont need vitamins.

[Vikuna2009+]

Originally Posted by Michael Motley

if you 'depend' on vitamins then you need to stop eating your food from a styrofoam box. Plus the supplement market has absolutely no regulation. You dont know if you're getting the right doseage or even the advertised dosage.

Originally Posted by Michael Motley

Then you are cooking your foods to much or not eating the right foods. If you are eating the right foods and preparing them correctly, unless you have some specific issue that is making you extraordinarily vitamin deficient, you dont need vitamins.

I don't get it, just because of the fact that I am alerting you about Codex, you think there is something WRONG with my cooking or that I am eating the WRONG food or that I have some SPECIFIC ISSUE? Quite hilarious, to say the least !

Quote: " You don't need vitamins. [quote]. I guess each of us has the right to our opinion, enough said.

[Michael Motley]

No, i think because you are worried about vitamins, that there is probably something wrong with your cooking or you're eating the wrong foods, or you have a specific issue that requires vitamins

Thats not my opinion, thats the opinion of medical professionals

[Michael Motley]

Also, from what i see, this is something that is suppsed to affect the EU, not the US. I doubt that you could just stop the multi-billion dollar supplement industry in this country without major upheavel. There are too many people like some in this thread that believe they NEED vitamins every single day or actually do need vitamins because for some reason their diet of cheezy puffs and gatorade just doesnt seem to fill their vitamin needs

[myob]

Everyone I know is showing signs of severe flouride deficiency - their teeth are white. Is there a supplement we should be taking to correct this?

[Vikuna2009+]

Originally Posted by Michael Motley

Also, from what i see, this is something that is suppsed to affect the EU, not the US. I doubt that you could just stop the multi-billion dollar supplement industry in this country without major upheavel. There are too many people like some in this thread that believe they NEED vitamins every single day or actually do need vitamins because for some reason their diet of cheezy puffs and gatorade just doesnt seem to fill their vitamin needs

Seriously, you need to do some heavy research because it is actually set to take effect January 1, 2010. (in the U.S.).

Its not about the need, its about being able to have the opportunity to supplement if you so choose.

As far as myself, do not do c heezy puffs or gatorade, do not even drink any kind of soda, bc its BAD for you .

BTW, peaches are the MOST TOXIC of all fruit, DO NOT EAT THEM if they are not ORGANIC !

Have a great day!

[Michael Motley]

Ok, and here's what i found

What most folks don't understand is that 99 percent of the vitamins and supplements you see on store shelves contain ingredients that were made by chemical manufacturers and pharmaceutical companies. Most of these ingredients have little to no government oversight for safety. The version of Codex that we endorse includes wording that would provide government regulation of synthetic vitamins and supplements, while leaving 100 percent organic, naturally occurring herbs, vitamins and supplements outside of its scope. We are fighting to make sure the final version of Codex provides much needed enforcement of synthetic vitamins and supplements, while leaving 100 percent organic and naturally occurring herbs, vitamins and supplements outside of its scope."

http://www.organicconsumers.org/arti...ticle_4062.cfm

So the sky isnt falling on organics, just on crap that people think they need.

[Vikuna2009+]

Originally Posted by Michael Motley

Ok, and here's what i found

Will the WTO's Codex Alimentarius Take Away Your Right to Purchase Synthetic Vitamins & Supplements?

So the sky isnt falling on organics, just on crap that people think they need.

Quote: "we should ask who stands to profit the most from the implementation of CA before readily accepting it into our lives.

The version of Codex that we endorse includes wording that would provide government regulation of synthetic vitamins and supplements, while leaving 100 percent organic, naturally occurring herbs, vitamins and supplements outside of its scope.

We are FIGHTING to make sure the final version of Codex provides much needed enforcement of synthetic vitamins and supplements, while leaving 100 percent organic and naturally occurring herbs, vitamins and supplements outside of its scope."

Yes, they are FIGHTING!

Simple question: Why should they have to FIGHT?

[Michael Motley]

Seriously, get out of the bunker, take off the tinfoil hat. The government doesnt want to control your plants and herbs, but they are cracking down on the supplement sector because its pretty much unregulated.

I saw just last week that the obama admin. were coming down on Cheerios because of cheerios saying that if you eat their cereal for so many weeks, it will lower your cholesterol by so many points. Its not proven that cheerios does that, but whole grain oats, which is an ingredient of cheerios does and has been shown through actual testing to do so. Cheerios just sort of fudged the logic of the testing and the average consumer that doesnt know any better is thinking they can replace getting their cholesterol tested by eating cheerios. THATS what the entire vitamin industry is like, there's nobody checking to see if their claims are legit or not.

Should we sound the emergency claxon because the government is coming after our cheerios too?

A few years ago, there used to be a 'fitness program' called 'cybergenex' that was the greatest thing to get rid of a fat a$$ ever created. People spent millions on this program, and do you know what it was? Crap 'vitamins' that were never tested for accuracy and an exercise program that had you working out 8 hours a day. I could eat peanut butter and jelly sandwiches with marshmallow toppings and wash it down with chocolate syrup and get in shape if i'm working out 8 hours a day, but the people who are trying to lose weight or get in shape dont see any farther than what the box tells them. Weight loss is like IM. A good story about 'the good life' will make you a millionaire

To me, this sounds like its what is needed for that industry that is full of liars and thieves. At this point they are saying they aren't coming after organics, and why would they, but they are going after the 'vitamins' created from nothing but chemicals and binders. If people can't see why eating chemicals and binders and expecting a rise in personal health is a bad thing, then that right there explains to you why they are people who stuff vitamins in their face instead of just changing their diet and why they need to have choices made for them.

[HeySal]

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

So one third of the population has brown teeth? I guess I live in a different area. Where are these people?

Mottled isn't always brown - it's patchy but sometimes white - caused because too much fluoride (fluorisis) makes teeth Porous. Google pictures of fluorosis and you will see the different looks of the condition.

[TelegramSam]

Originally Posted by Michael Motley

Seriously, get out of the bunker, take off the tinfoil hat. The government doesnt want to control your plants and herbs, but they are cracking down on the supplement sector because its pretty much unregulated.

I have to jump in again on this thread as this guy is living in cloud cuckoo land.

I thought I had stamped his fire out but it looks like he has had a new spark catch again.

If you did your proper research before spewing garbage out of your ignorant mind, you would see that the government is trying to ban a number of herbs right now, has already done so many times in the past and is trying desperately to dumb down what can be classed as organic.

All to the benefit of large pharma, genetically modified food growers and seed suppliers and for all the other big money companies who finance/lobby the stooges.

Oh and by the way, as an example, it only needs a tiny bit of vitamin C to avoid scurvy, but if you want optimum health your body benefits from higher levels than the minimum recommended dosages. These were set up to act as a guideline for the various vitamin related diseases earlier last century.

There is a big difference between being fat and unhealthy at one end of the spectrum, being apparently "normal" in the middle and being super-healthy at the far end of the spectrum.

A big mac and fries has quite a lot of vitamins in it. But does that make it healthy if you eat it everyday washed down with a couple of litres of coke?

I hereby, request you eat the big mac now and pour the coke over what is left of your little flame.

I'm off to peel a banana, drink my juice and go for a little bicycle ride in the fresh air.

Bye.

[Michael Motley]

Tell the guys in the bunker I said hi and to keep an eye out for the black helicopters!

[TelegramSam]

Originally Posted by Michael Motley

Tell the guys in the bunker I said hi and to keep an eye out for the black helicopters!

Well you won't see any helicopters so long as you keep wearing those blinders on your head.

[ThomM]

you would see that the government is trying to ban a number of herbs right now, has already done so many times in the past and is trying desperately to dumb down what can be classed as organic.

This line reminded me of the prohibition we had in the 20's and the one we have now. You think they would learn, you can't prohibit something the people want and can easily make or grow themselves.

[Michael Motley]

Originally Posted by TelegramSam

Well you won't see any helicopters so long as you keep wearing those blinders on your head.

So you and the boys in the bunker are the only ones that know the truth about VeggieGate?

[Vikuna2009+]

Quote: "
"If Codex Alimentarius has its way, then herbs, vitamins, minerals, homeopathic remedies, amino acids and other natural remedies you have taken for granted most of your life will be gone.



The name of the game for Codex Alimentarius is to shift all remedies into the prescription category so they can be controlled exclusively by the medical monopoly and its bosses, the major pharmaceutical firms.



Predictably, this scenario has been denied by both the Canadian Health Food Association and the Health Protection Branch of Canada (HPB).
The Codex Alimentarius proposals already exist as law in Norway and Germany where the entire health food industry has literally been taken over by the drug companies. In these countries, vitamin C above 200 mg is illegal as is vitamin E above 45 IU, vitamin B1 over 2.4 mg and so on.



Shering-Plough, the Norway pharmaceutical giant, now controls an Echinacea tincture, which is being sold there as an over the counter drug at grossly inflated prices. The same is true of ginkgo and many other herbs, and only one government controlled pharmacy has the right to import supplements as medicines which they can sell to health food stores, convenience stores or pharmacies."


It is now a criminal offence in parts of Europe to sell herbs as foods. An agreement called EEC6565 equates selling herbs as foods to selling other illegal drugs. Action is being taken to accelerate other European countries into 'harmonization' as well.


Paul Hellyer in his book, "The Evil Empire," states: "Codex Alimentarius is supported by international banks and multinational corporations including some in Canada, and is in reality a bill of rights for these banks and the corporations they control.


It will hand over our sovereign rights concerning who may or may not invest in our countries to an unelected world organization run by big business. The treaty would make it impossible for Canadian legislators either federal or provincial to alter or improve environmental standards for fear of being sued by multinational corporations whether operating in Canada or not.


This will create a world without borders ruled by a virtual dictatorship of the world's most powerful central banks and multinational companies. This world is an absolute certainty if we all sit on our hands and do nothing."


This is the future the FDA and FTC are striving to bring us via Codex harmonization. Is this a future we are going to willingly accept or prevent? end Quote"


Yep, its coming...

[TimPhelan]

Totally agree with you Michael. The supplements are unregulated and they should be regulated. Orrin Hatch was the main guy behind the 1994 bill which deregulated the supplement industry. I was made aware of this by listening to Dr. Dean Adell for many years. One of his pet peeves was the DSHEA act of 1994. It basically deregulated the supplement industry just as Michael is describing.

Here's an article which describes this bill as being responsible for the "golden age of quackery":

Utah, a supplement abuse hatchery. (01-NOV-01) NCAHF Newsletter

Originally Posted by Michael Motley

Seriously, get out of the bunker, take off the tinfoil hat. The government doesnt want to control your plants and herbs, but they are cracking down on the supplement sector because its pretty much unregulated.

I saw just last week that the obama admin. were coming down on Cheerios because of cheerios saying that if you eat their cereal for so many weeks, it will lower your cholesterol by so many points. Its not proven that cheerios does that, but whole grain oats, which is an ingredient of cheerios does and has been shown through actual testing to do so. Cheerios just sort of fudged the logic of the testing and the average consumer that doesnt know any better is thinking they can replace getting their cholesterol tested by eating cheerios. THATS what the entire vitamin industry is like, there's nobody checking to see if their claims are legit or not.

Should we sound the emergency claxon because the government is coming after our cheerios too?

A few years ago, there used to be a 'fitness program' called 'cybergenex' that was the greatest thing to get rid of a fat a$$ ever created. People spent millions on this program, and do you know what it was? Crap 'vitamins' that were never tested for accuracy and an exercise program that had you working out 8 hours a day. I could eat peanut butter and jelly sandwiches with marshmallow toppings and wash it down with chocolate syrup and get in shape if i'm working out 8 hours a day, but the people who are trying to lose weight or get in shape dont see any farther than what the box tells them. Weight loss is like IM. A good story about 'the good life' will make you a millionaire

To me, this sounds like its what is needed for that industry that is full of liars and thieves. At this point they are saying they aren't coming after organics, and why would they, but they are going after the 'vitamins' created from nothing but chemicals and binders. If people can't see why eating chemicals and binders and expecting a rise in personal health is a bad thing, then that right there explains to you why they are people who stuff vitamins in their face instead of just changing their diet and why they need to have choices made for them.

[TelegramSam]

Hey Tim,

You are an idiot.

What is your vested interest?

Sam

[HeySal]

Originally Posted by Michael Motley

Thats not my opinion, thats the opinion of medical professionals

Ah yes - medical professionals. You mean the guys that take the classes written by pharmaceutical companies - the ones who usually have less background in nutrition than nurses receive. The guys that want us to believe that cholesterol is bad for your heart and can cause heart attacks (and yes I do know that there are two types). The guys that tell us low fat diets are good for us instead of certain kinds of fats are dangerous. The guys that make us ask for ascorbic acid infusions before they give them to us if we are in the hospital dying of flu.

CODEX will make it almost impossible to get concentrations of ascorbic acid in a form in which you can get fast doses high enough to kill flu viruses.

It also labels garlic and B6 and other nutrients as toxins. Toxins? Okay.

Yet it does not stop the addition of MSG or trans-fatty acids to our foods. It doesn't take aspertime out of our food.

It is pretty likely to bring the population down to carrying capacity level, though.


Paul - yes - you Californians have some pretty white teeth - those tooth whiteners aren't all that safe either though. LOL.
Of course - you might live in one of the areas that has successfully gotten fluoridation taken out of their water. Last time I looked there were now 1.700 Dentists and dental associations fighting fluoride. A lot of areas are successfully taken out of their water. Many areas here in WA are now fluoride additive free, there are a few areas in which it occurs in natural form, though. Most, if not all, of Europe is now fluoride free, too. I think many areas in Canada have successfully banned it as well. They had the World Fluoride Convention up there last fall and it was looking good for bans.

If anyone wants to see the professional's opinions - dentists, doctors, medical associations, and environmental agencies research and action on the subject of fluoride instead of just hearing what I have to say about it, it's right here - and you can find here if your area fluoridates or not, too:
Fluoride Action Network

And no remarks about tinfoil.....tinfoil is very passee - the latest craze is electrostatic bags.

[TimPhelan]

Hey Sam.

My vested interest is the truth. Not BS.

Originally Posted by TelegramSam

Hey Tim,

You are an idiot.

What is you vested interest?

Sam

[HeySal]

Provided that for you re: fluoride in link in post just above yours, Tim. I think of anyone here, you will get the most from that one. At least you check things out before solidifying your opinions - although we don't always agree on interpretations, I have to respect you for that one.

[TelegramSam]

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

Hey Sam.

My vested interest is the truth. Not BS.

Well the truth is, you are an idiot.


Edit - Fair comment Mike (below). I retract the statement, but I do not apologise for my passionate stance on this subject. His apparent lack of appreciation for the seriousness of this issue and his blinkered thinking which does not benefit anyone except big pharma, government, etc. has really pissed me off.

When the good people stand by and do nothing, or believe nothing bad will happen: "it can't possibly be true" or "they wouldn't do that" etc., then that is the end as far as I am concerned.

In the old days if you didn't like the crap that was being shovelled in your face, you hitched up the wagon and moved on. These days you can't do that.

So when crap gets shovelled in your face constantly, you have to stand up for your rights, otherwise they simply get erroded one by one.

Sam

[MikeAmbrosio]

Originally Posted by TelegramSam

Well the truth is, you are an idiot.

Now, Sam, you see - this is exactly where you lose people who may be "on the fence" on this issue. This is where you make people think that maybe "tin foil hat" is appropriate for you.

You are getting pissy and name-calling because Tim doesn't agree with your viewpoint - nothing more. And I wouldn't be surprised to come back here later and find you calling me one.

I have known Tim on this board for several years. He believes what he believes based on the research he does. If you don't agree with him, then make your case. PROVE your case and he WILL listen (as will others).

But frankly, in your case, you lost me. Now I DO put you in the "tin foil hat" category. Not because I don't believe what people are saying about this CODEX thing - but because you name call when people don't believe.

Mike

[MikeAmbrosio]

Originally Posted by HeySal

Ah yes - medical professionals. You mean the guys that take the classes written by pharmaceutical companies - the ones who usually have less background in nutrition than nurses receive.

This is the one thing I have always wanted to know...

You guys are quick to beat down ANYthing put out by the government or scientists for the government as some sort of self-serving bunk, while at the same time, espousing all of your sources as 100% truth.

So, answer me this...why is the "proof" from your side irrefutable? Why should people who don't really know what to believe, believe those sources?

Do you REALLY believe that there is nothing "self-serving" about those people? And do you REALLY believe that ALL research coming from the other side is B.S.?

I am genuinely curious...

I ask because people point out certain things from the codex, but your response has always been the same: It's BS designed to mislead the public - do more research", yet I have yet to see you point to anything specific in the codex that supports what you are saying.

For the record, I don't know WHERE I stand or WHAT I believe. I only know this... I DO NOT swallow everything from EITHER side simply because I am told. Because whether people want to hear this or not, BOTH sides are self serving in some way.

Don't keep TELLING me what laws have been enacted - show me where and tell my why the law makes these things being mentioned are illegal. You want to convince people - dig up the proof and link to it - highlight the parts that support your argument. THEN you will get people listening.

To say things like "I have spent bah blah time on this and don't want to go dig it all up again..." merely suggests to those "late to the argument" that maybe you don't really HAVE any "proof".

Not being critical - just seems to me there is an awful lot of "truth-slinging" without any real verifiable truth being pointed to, except to say "Dr. So and So says..."

Yeah, well who is Dr. So and So and WHY should we believe him?

Quite frankly, I don't typically swallow ANY type of research as gospel considering for every "study" proving ONE thing there is one to "prove" the opposite. It comes down more to who you CHOOSE to believe. And not surprisingly, the people who are most likely to disbelieve government studies, if you dig deep enough, you will find they are to a large degree ANTI government. At least in the cases of the people I have spoken to.

I have stated before - I don't swallow what either side tells me "just because". I take in arguments from both sides and make my decisions after.

Mike

[nightwriter46]

I think everyone is missing the main point on this issue.

Whether or not you believe vitamins and natural supplements are necessary or not, you cannot deny people's right to choose to take them or not.

Or force them into buying versions that are controlled by the pharmaceutical companies. Which is what the Codex Alimentarius will do if its wording is not altered to allow people the freedom of choice.

Each country, in their specific Charter of Rights, gives their citizens the Freedom of Choice in most areas of their lives...why should a law passed by a foreign body, whether public or private, be allowed to curtail your right to choose?

Read what the CA is really saying and you will realize that it is a very dangerous step against our freedoms.

Cheers
Diana

[MikeAmbrosio]

Originally Posted by nightwriter46

I think everyone is missing the main point on this issue.

Whether or not you believe vitamins and natural supplements are necessary or not, you cannot deny people's right to choose to take them or not.

Or force them into buying versions that are controlled by the pharmaceutical companies. Which is what the Codex Alimentarius will do if its wording is not altered to allow people the freedom of choice.

Each country, in their specific Charter of Rights, gives their citizens the Freedom of Choice in most areas of their lives...why should a law passed by a foreign body, whether public or private, be allowed to curtail your right to choose?

Read what the CA is really saying and you will realize that it is a very dangerous step against our freedoms.

Cheers
Diana

I actually agree with this 100%. Every day we lose more freedom and civil liberties.

And I DO realize that much legislation passes under the guise of protecting the public when really all it's for is to either:

- get a politician re-elected
- line more pockets

But that's not where my questions were coming from

Nice post.

Mike

[TimPhelan]

All I said was the supplement industry should be regulated and pointed to the bill authored by Orrin Hatch as the reason it isn't now. So, because I agree that supplements should be regulated I am an idiot? That doesn't make sense really. Why do you think products that people put into their bodies and can be harmful shouldn't be regulated? That's the real question IMO.

Originally Posted by TelegramSam

Well the truth is, you are an idiot.


Edit - Fair comment Mike (below). I retract the statement, but I do not apologise for my passionate stance on this subject. His apparent lack of appreciation for the seriousness of this issue and his blinkered thinking which does not benefit anyone except big pharma, government, etc. has really pissed me off.

When the good people stand by and do nothing, or believe nothing bad will happen: "it can't possibly be true" or "they wouldn't do that" etc., then that is the end as far as I am concerned.

In the old days if you didn't like the crap that was being shovelled in your face, you hitched up the wagon and moved on. These days you can't do that.

So when crap gets shovelled in your face constantly, you have to stand up for your rights, otherwise they simply get erroded one by one.

Sam

[TimPhelan]

Thanks for that Sal. I did check that site out and have seen that one before. I do think it is biased on the side of the anti flouridation people. Here's a site that is biased to the side of the pro flouidation people:

Vote NO on Measure W

I think having flouride in the drinking water regulated should be voted on in each local district. It's been done in some areas and it's a good way to get people interested in this debate and knowledgable about what is in their water. It was voted on in Fort Collins and 2/3rds of the people decided to keep flouridation.

By the way, that site above has a review of the Flouride Deception book and makes some good points:

Vote NO on W

Originally Posted by HeySal

Provided that for you re: fluoride in link in post just above yours, Tim. I think of anyone here, you will get the most from that one. At least you check things out before solidifying your opinions - although we don't always agree on interpretations, I have to respect you for that one.

[TimPhelan]

The DSHEA act deregulated the industry. You got it backwards.

Originally Posted by Katie Byrd

The Dr. in this video mentions DSHEA that was passed in 1994. That was another one that brought the quacks out of the woodwork. In the end, the regulations were very positive and gave the nutrition industry a much needed clean sweep to clear out all the garbage that was on the market.

[TelegramSam]

Hey Michael,

It certainly wasn't my intention to upset anyone deliberately.

This is an important subject, regardless of the opening video etc.

Everyone has the right to eat what they want, including good stuff and bad.

But that is the point. What right do the governent have to dictate how people should lead their lives, healthily or not.

Regulation is one thing, downright squashing of these rights is something else.

When people feel their rights are being eroded they get damned emotional. And quite right too. Too many people do nothing.

And when people become argumentative, when they don't even have much interest in taking health supplements and herbs etc., then that is like a red rag to a bull for a number of people in this thread who are interested in such. Me included.

If I have offended anyone, including you, then I do apologise for that. As I said it wasn't the intention.

A lot of the public at large don't realise what could happen if people don't look and take some action about this issue and many others.

If government as a whole was more honest, caring and intelligent and REALLY had the best interests of the masses at heart, and the people trusted it, then people wouldn't be so concerned.

Yours humbly,
Sam