India Puts Spacecraft Into Mars Orbit

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India Puts Spacecraft Into Mars Orbit
  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Was Shane on it?
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    • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
      Hmmm, good to know, that the US, isn't the only country that will spout BS!



      I heard about the US one, also, figuring out where the atmosphere went, and finding traces of water.

      Or BS planet Earths population, to the hill!

      Doesn't matter if l have found water on Mars, and NASA itself has shown images with a blue sky in the background!!!!


      I watched this on the news, and just wanted to grab a bucket, or put my head out of a window, and do the "Mad as Hell" routine!

      Apparently NASA knows that we will know everything within the next 20 - 30 years or so, so are BS, til then or wring every cent out of the oil reserves til then!

      Ok, had my rant!
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      • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
        Originally Posted by tagiscom View Post

        Hmmm, good to know, that the US, isn't the only country that will spout BS!

        I heard about the US one, also, figuring out where the atmosphere went, and finding traces of water.

        Or BS planet Earths population, to the hill!

        Doesn't matter if l have found water on Mars, and NASA itself has shown images with a blue sky in the background!!!!


        I watched this on the news, and just wanted to grab a bucket, or put my head out of a window, and do the "Mad as Hell" routine!
        Shane; Think. Are all the scientists, science teachers, astronomers, astronauts, everyone in NASA...in fact everyone with a telescope....covering up the fact that Mars has liquid water, a population, and a thick atmosphere?

        Every government? And only you know the truth?

        Really? Does that really make sense to you?
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        • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
          Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

          Shane; Think. Are all the scientists, science teachers, astronomers, astronauts, everyone in NASA...in fact everyone with a telescope....covering up the fact that Mars has liquid water, a population, and a thick atmosphere?

          Every government? And only you know the truth?

          Really? Does that really make sense to you?
          Arrrrrggggg, let's not raise that one again!


          If there is 100 trillion in oil in the ground, and open discussion about all this will ultimately lead to open discussion on antigravity systems, (a reasonable threat to national security, but nothing too serious) and open discussion about free energy, (could cause a stock market crash and tens of thousands of misplaced jobs, as well as massive losses, then, no not really!

          Don't ask me why NASA is being such an A**, probably the reasons above, tick some boxes.

          Or reading the 1957 disclosure document, saying society would collapse, if we were told aliens are real! Then landing Viking on Mars, and realizing that organics were in the ground as well as blue skys, and green stuff on the rocks!

          Plenty of others have raised these inconsistencies, with them but they never give a straight answer!

          Some wrote books given conferences, etc, some were crap and others!

          The best info, l have heard from them is, some scientists believe liquid water is flowing on Mars now!

          In all honesty if you can explain everything l have found as rocks and illusions, then l am all ears or eyes!

          Certainly a lot of clear liquid that never makes front page news, (funny that) whatever it is, is a good sigh, that NASA is full of it!

          If it is water, then they are!

          (Furiously patting my squealing fluffy bunny)!

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          • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
            Originally Posted by tagiscom View Post


            The best info, l have heard from them is, some scientists believe liquid water is flowing on Mars now!
            Not scientists with telescopes. Shane. Just buy a telescope, and look for yourself. Shane; Have you ever looked up Mars in an encyclopedia? A recent one? Rocks. Rocks and shadows.


            Originally Posted by tagiscom View Post

            In all honesty if you can explain everything l have found as rocks and illusions,
            I've spent about an hour looking at all your Mars photos. Rocks. All rocks. Some blurry, some sharper. All rocks. No androids, no houses, no people walking around....Rocks.

            And no, Shane, I'm not trying to trick you. Just rocks.
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            • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
              Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

              Not scientists with telescopes. Shane. Just buy a telescope, and look for yourself. Shane; Have you ever looked up Mars in an encyclopedia? A recent one? Rocks. Rocks and shadows.




              I've spent about an hour looking at all your Mars photos. Rocks. All rocks. Some blurry, some sharper. All rocks. No androids, no houses, no people walking around....Rocks.

              And no, Shane, I'm not trying to trick you. Just rocks.
              I feel I have to comment here but not venture too far into conspiracy theories. Just to point out for me, unanswered questions.

              Being a keen amateur astronomer in my youth I looked at Mars many times through telescope. The truth is, unless you bought a very large one with a lot of light gathering power and supporting high magnification you would be sorely disappointed. The disk is very small compared with the likes of Jupiter and Saturn. You can hardly make out any markings on it either. The atmosphere of the Earth blurs it as well. A waste of time.

              Even the largest telescopes on earth shows a blurry image.

              When we got the Hubble up it was able to get much better views and consistently showed a blue tinge on the edges of the planets disk.. These photos for some reason are difficult to find now online. There are a few you-tube vids that still show them in slideshows. If someone could point me too some original pics?.

              Back in the seventies when the first Viking pics came back from the surface they printed one in the newspapers in the UK. Color pictures were rare in those days in our newspapers so it was memorable.

              I saw the red tinted photo and said no way. It was not sharp or accurate. It was not correct, it was a tinted job. And, there were a few earlier depictions I saw that did show a blue sky and rocks with tinges of green on them, were a lot more detailed and sharper.. This article along with some color corrected photographs I find interesting. They are using the flag as a reference. Viking Mars Lander Photo Color-Altering Revealed

              The photo I saw in that paper was more like a blurry polaroid. photo with false colors.

              In more recent times, due to some slipups at NASA press conferences and (mistake or intended) it finally became clear that the sky's were indeed blue and it was clearly shown. However, NASA for some reason, still seem to tint their pics red. Also, they did not seem to be very pro-active at releasing that many with great frequency. It actually prompted members of the government to say, for gods sake, give the public domain more pictures of the surface to look at. They are paying for it.

              Forty five percent of the earths atmosphere is Oxygen, coupled with nitrogen. and some others it makes the sunlight be filtered as blue. So, is their another reason the sky is blue on Mars?

              Aside from Shane's pictures and enhancements which I agree are rocks, shadows and reflections, their is out there, to view some interesting and much more sharper and startling anomalies on the surface.

              I'm just drawing your attention to all this to ask the question WHY, why tint the pictures and say the sky is red when it really is not. Why do this. It appears to be a deception but why was it done in the first place. If their is a reason, what is it. Perhaps their is none but it does not appear that way.

              Lets take just one thing! Why are all or most all the photographs of the Martain surface being tinted red and clearly, some of it's surface blurred?

              This has nothing to do with honest, open investigative science that we the tax payers are footing the bill for.

              I only hope India is more honest and open with what they find.
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              • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

                I'm just drawing your attention to all this to ask the question WHY, why tint the pictures and say the sky is red when it really is not. Why do this. It appears to be a deception but why was it done in the first place. If their is a reason, what is it. Perhaps their is none but it does not appear that way.
                Contrast in color adds clarity to the photo. It's very common in photos from space. Without the contrasting colors, everything pretty much looks grayish. Most photos you see of other planets have been filtered for color...so features can stand out clearer.

                That's the answer.
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                • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
                  Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                  Contrast in color adds clarity to the photo. It's very common in photos from space. Without the contrasting colors, everything pretty much looks grayish. Most photos you see of other planets have been filtered for color...so features can stand out clearer.

                  That's the answer.
                  I cannot speak 100 percent for the Hubble pics of Mars but the blue sky surface shots of Mars had a lot more clarity in the landscape than when tinted red. The question should be asked, was their enough light from the sun to take normal, unfiltered pictures in the daytime. The article I sited suggested that filtering and tinting were not required. If you had seen the picture in that newspaper compared to the better, perhaps color corrected picture you would have thought they were two different places.
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                  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
                    Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

                    I cannot speak 100 percent for the Hubble pics of Mars but the blue sky surface shots of Mars had a lot more clarity in the landscape than when tinted red. The question should be asked, was their enough light from the sun to take normal, unfiltered pictures in the daytime. The article I sited suggested that filtering and tinting were not required. If you had seen the picture in that newspaper compared to the better, perhaps color corrected picture you would have thought they were two different places.
                    You ever been in a dust storm? Dry dessicated ground and 60 mile an hour winds has a way to make the air hazy and tint it. Does the same thing right here on earth. NASA said that the winds are slowing down up there.......and it's getting colder.

                    I would not doubt that if the winds calm down we'll see more blue sky shots.
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                    • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
                      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

                      You ever been in a dust storm? Dry dessicated ground and 60 mile an hour winds has a way to make the air hazy and tint it. Does the same thing right here on earth. NASA said that the winds are slowing down up there.......and it's getting colder.

                      I would not doubt that if the winds calm down we'll see more blue sky shots.
                      I could be wrong but I understand although dust storms occur on Mars it's not that often. Of course when they do it would make the sky's reddish for a while, probably longer than desert storms on earth because of less gravity. When clear as in photos I have seen it will return to it's native blue.
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                  • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                    Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

                    I cannot speak 100 percent for the Hubble pics of Mars but the blue sky surface shots of Mars had a lot more clarity in the landscape than when tinted red. The question should be asked, was their enough light from the sun to take normal, unfiltered pictures in the daytime. The article I sited suggested that filtering and tinting were not required. If you had seen the picture in that newspaper compared to the better, perhaps color corrected picture you would have thought they were two different places.
                    I was speaking in general about photos taken of other planets and in space, not about a specific photo.


                    Added later; Mars is nearly twice as far away from the Sun as Earth. So it gets less light. But the atmosphere is so thin, that most of the light reaches the surface.

                    Why there is a certain color to the atmosphere, I don't know....but it's very easy to find out.
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          • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
            Originally Posted by tagiscom View Post


            Or reading the 1957 disclosure document, saying society would collapse, if we were told aliens are real! Then landing Viking on Mars, and realizing that organics were in the ground as well as blue skys, and green stuff on the rocks!

            Plenty of others have raised these inconsistencies, with them but they never give a straight answer!
            Shane; These 'questions" can't get a straight answer, because the question is nonsensical.

            If I ask you "Why is a rainbow coming out your ear?", what answer could you give, that would satisfy me? No answer. And so, because the people at NASA are representing NASA... they can't say "That question indicates that you are insane". So they have to be polite. And if they say "There are no aliens being held here on Earth", the people asking the questions will yell "Cover up".

            Shane; Have you met any of these people, that write this nonsense? They aren't real journalists. They are bloggers that are obsessive. Have you ever gone to one of these conferences? I have . Not a real scientist in attendance. In fact, there isn't any science there at all. Silly nonsense, that never works.
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      • Profile picture of the author Sarevok
        Originally Posted by tagiscom View Post

        Hmmm, good to know, that the US, isn't the only country that will spout BS!



        I heard about the US one, also, figuring out where the atmosphere went, and finding traces of water.

        Or BS planet Earths population, to the hill!

        Doesn't matter if l have found water on Mars, and NASA itself has shown images with a blue sky in the background!!!!


        I watched this on the news, and just wanted to grab a bucket, or put my head out of a window, and do the "Mad as Hell" routine!

        Apparently NASA knows that we will know everything within the next 20 - 30 years or so, so are BS, til then or wring every cent out of the oil reserves til then!

        Ok, had my rant!
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    • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      Was Shane on it?
      Well there went a perfectly good mouthful of coffee! LOL!


      Terra
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Uh...okay. So I guess you stayed on Earth this time.
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  • Profile picture of the author whateverpedia
    So I guess curried fluffy bunny is now on the menu.
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    • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      Uh...okay. So I guess you stayed on Earth this time.
      Yep!


      Originally Posted by MissTerraK View Post

      Well there went a perfectly good mouthful of coffee! LOL!


      Terra
      Yes, l think that the Mods need to issue health and safety warnings?

      Originally Posted by whateverpedia View Post

      So I guess curried fluffy bunny is now on the menu.
      Yes, after a hard day of slashing and selling to the local abboitar and restaurant, l wouldn't go past a fluffy bunny currie!

      It is the squealing, l have a hard time with!

      I suppose that l need to take a long, hard look at my despicable and evil actions, and get some earplugs! LOL!



      Disclaimer - no bunnies, fluffy or otherwise were hurt, during this thread, although, it wasn't easy putting the meat cleaver back into the cobard!
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  • Profile picture of the author WalkingCarpet
    Banned
    Curry Power.
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    I don't know what this discussion is all about. When I first found out about water on Mars - it was from NASA. Why does everyone keep saying they are hiding something that they distinctively said exists? They said "thin oxygen" - same as earth at 35 miles up. Not no atmosphere - never heard them say no clouds, although a lot of haze on the planet is due to dust blowing. What makes dust blow? Wind. So there is an atmosphere - there's just not a lot of oxygen. If we didn't have all the lush forestry we have - we wouldn't have much oxygen either - and didn't for millions of years. At one time when there was more volcanic action our atmosphere was mostly sulfur.

    So lets all get over it - Mars has water on it. Probably a fair amount underground, and some of the ice isn't H2O - but according to NASA, some of it is. So what is the damned argument about "suppressed" information about water on Mars? Stop it.
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    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      Not no atmosphere - never heard them say no clouds, although a lot of haze on the planet is due to dust blowing. What makes dust blow? Wind. So there is an atmosphere - there's just not a lot of oxygen..
      The atmosphere is about 1% as dense as Earth's is at sea level. So there is enough air to make a parachute slow down a descending probe. And there is enough air for there to be whispy clouds .....like you said, mostly dust clouds.
      And of course there is frozen water. Much of it at the south pole.

      The problem is that someone hears "No atmosphere" and they say "Yes there is" and now it's a silly debate.

      It's a very thin atmosphere, with little oxygen, because the atmosphere is so thin. And the atmosphere is also nearly all carbon dioxide. Like Venus'....except way thinner.
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      • Profile picture of the author HeySal
        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

        The atmosphere is about 1% as dense as Earth's is at sea level. So there is enough air to make a parachute slow down a descending probe. And there is enough air for there to be whispy clouds .....like you said, mostly dust clouds.
        And of course there is frozen water. Much of it at the south pole.

        The problem is that someone hears "No atmosphere" and they say "Yes there is" and now it's a silly debate.

        It's a very thin atmosphere, with little oxygen, because the atmosphere is so thin. And the atmosphere is also nearly all carbon dioxide. Like Venus'....except way thinner.
        It varies seasonally, too - remember that atmosphere is thinner during cold weather. On Mars it varies between 4% and 8% depending on season. How thick would it be if it got warmer up there?

        Here's the composition - notice that there is H2O in the air even at the low temps? Hmmmmm.

        Atmospheric composition (by volume):
        Major : Carbon Dioxide (CO2) - 95.32% ; Nitrogen (N2) - 2.7%
        Argon (Ar) - 1.6%; Oxygen (O2) - 0.13%; Carbon Monoxide (CO) - 0.08%
        Minor (ppm): Water (H2O) - 210; Nitrogen Oxide (NO) - 100; Neon (Ne) - 2.5;
        Hydrogen-Deuterium-Oxygen (HDO) - 0.85; Krypton (Kr) - 0.3;
        Xenon (Xe) - 0.08
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        • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
          Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

          Not scientists with telescopes. Shane. Just buy a telescope, and look for yourself. Shane; Have you ever looked up Mars in an encyclopedia? A recent one? Rocks. Rocks and shadows.




          I've spent about an hour looking at all your Mars photos. Rocks. All rocks. Some blurry, some sharper. All rocks. No androids, no houses, no people walking around....Rocks.

          And no, Shane, I'm not trying to trick you. Just rocks.
          I have seen plenty of Hubble 1997 images, with a thick blue sky!!!!


          Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

          Shane; These 'questions" can't get a straight answer, because the question is nonsensical.

          If I ask you "Why is a rainbow coming out your ear?", what answer could you give, that would satisfy me? No answer. And so, because the people at NASA are representing NASA... they can't say "That question indicates that you are insane". So they have to be polite. And if they say "There are no aliens being held here on Earth", the people asking the questions will yell "Cover up".

          Shane; Have you met any of these people, that write this nonsense? They aren't real journalists. They are bloggers that are obsessive. Have you ever gone to one of these conferences? I have . Not a real scientist in attendance. In fact, there isn't any science there at all. Silly nonsense, that never works.
          Some are noted scientists!

          Ok, if you can look at the house l found on Mars and somehow dismiss it as a pile of rocks, then nothing short of an alien tea-bagging you will get you to change your mind!

          I suppose the thing out the front of this, that looks like torn fabric is a rock as well?



          But putting that aside, the question sill remains, if l am the only one believing in this, then why doesn't NASA or the media say anything about the liquid?????

          NASA and/or the media are either seriously dumb, or are covering up!

          And for all it was worth, l did, (or NASA) did prove that Mars does have a blue sky!


          Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

          I don't know what this discussion is all about. When I first found out about water on Mars - it was from NASA. Why does everyone keep saying they are hiding something that they distinctively said exists? They said "thin oxygen" - same as earth at 35 miles up. Not no atmosphere - never heard them say no clouds, although a lot of haze on the planet is due to dust blowing. What makes dust blow? Wind. So there is an atmosphere - there's just not a lot of oxygen. If we didn't have all the lush forestry we have - we wouldn't have much oxygen either - and didn't for millions of years. At one time when there was more volcanic action our atmosphere was mostly sulfur.

          So lets all get over it - Mars has water on it. Probably a fair amount underground, and some of the ice isn't H2O - but according to NASA, some of it is. So what is the damned argument about "suppressed" information about water on Mars? Stop it.
          Yes, but NASA never shows water flows, eventhough their Curiosity images show that!

          If Claude is right, then NASA officials must be paranoid and delusional not to have a press release on that one?


          Clearly some, will never accept the conspiracy idea, so they will have to accept that some in NASA are seriously insane!

          I'd better end it there, l don't particularly want to go through bringing up obvious evidence again, and have it ignored by some who don't believe in any of it!


          The Mars Curiosity thread has, 43k, and counting, glad l am not the only one here, with an open mind!

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          • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
            Originally Posted by tagiscom View Post


            Ok, if you can look at the house l found on Mars and somehow dismiss it as a pile of rocks, then nothing short of an alien tea-bagging you will get you to change your mind!
            Shane; You have to understand, that when you make statements like this....it's just about impossible to reply. This is why NASA doesn't give serious answers to these claims. It's impossible to give a real answer to nonsensical claims.

            And of course, the fact that they ignore such statements...means that they are hiding something.
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        • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
          Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

          It varies seasonally, too - remember that atmosphere is thinner during cold weather. On Mars it varies between 4% and 8% depending on season. How thick would it be if it got warmer up there?
          Sal; Where do you get the 4-8%? 4-8% of what? Do you mean that there is a 4-8% variance in the thickness of the atmosphere...depending on the temperature?

          The air pressure is about 6 tenths of one percent of the air pressure on Earth (at sea level)

          Even if the air pressure tripled, it would still be 2% that of Earth.

          We could conceivably create an atmosphere, but the natural forces that stripped the atmosphere away in the past, still exist. Lack of gravity, low internal heat, lack of geological activity, no magnetic shield holding back solar radiation.
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          • Profile picture of the author HeySal
            Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

            Sal; Where do you get the 4-8%? 4-8% of what? Do you mean that there is a 4-8% variance in the thickness of the atmosphere...depending on the temperature?

            The air pressure is about 6 tenths of one percent of the air pressure on Earth (at sea level)

            Even if the air pressure tripled, it would still be 2% that of Earth.

            We could conceivably create an atmosphere, but the natural forces that stripped the atmosphere away in the past, still exist. Lack of gravity, low internal heat, lack of geological activity, no magnetic shield holding back solar radiation.
            First off, I just read my post and I typed it backward -- air pressure is greater when it's cold - not visa versa.

            The % mean air pressure. It's from 4% to 8% -- or basically a barometer of 7.5 millibars. Earth averages around 1000 millibars. We're in our atmosphere about like fish are in water pressure - tons of air pressing on us, but we don't notice it. Mars air pressure varies by 50%, while ours only varies around 10% -- at ground level.

            Another interesting factor is the Mars air is mostly composed of C02 - yet it is cold there. Why? Because there isn't much H20 in the air. H20 is the most powerful greenhouse gas.

            The reason I posted the figures was because people mistake the fact that the atmosphere there is not 1% -- it's 1% of EARTH'S. Mars has enough atmosphere to create wind - thus dust storms - and where there are dust storms the planet is warmer due to the dust being big enough particles to create the greenhouse effect. Those storms also account for more of a muddy or red atmosphere than the sky would show where there are no storms. It can takes weeks or months for dust to settle after a storm.

            There's no plate tectonics so carbon isn't being recycled into the air like it is here - and that is one of the reasons the atmosphere has become so thin. The carbon is forming rocks instead of being pushed back into the air.

            What torks me is the talk about "surpressed" info about clouds. Here's a few lines from the University of Chicago. Sure doesn't sound like "surpressed" information to me. That's basically why I'm having rants over this subject. Just because it's not up on a billboard doesn't mean info is "suppressed" or the person that knows it is a nut job. I just think people need to chill on this subject because we don't know everything yet, but someone studying the issue might know more than someone who reads the news now and then about it.

            .......Today, however, the atmosphere on Mars contains very little water and the conditions on Mars are far too dry for extensive water clouds to form, but even this little amount can condense, forming high, thin, wispy clouds. Early morning fog may collect in valleys and frost may form on the ground, but these rapidly dissipate as the morning temperature rises. Since Mars is so cold, the water is in the form of ice crystals in the clouds, fog and frost........


            They've found something else, too, and have indicated they might have something exciting to tell us, but weren't sure enough yet to make a public statement. At one point they found methane, but were not able to find more so figured it was methane from our atmosphere that the instrument was measuring. I'm thinking that maybe they found more. If so - that means life. Methane comes from organic matter.

            There is a tremendous amount of suppression in science -- however, it's not always "suppression". Sometimes it's just held back because they aren't completely sure yet and have to run more tests. Making announcements then having to say "oops" later is pretty embarrassing for a scientist, so they really like to be completely sure before they make public announcements about anything.
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          • Profile picture of the author HeySal
            Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

            Sal; Where do you get the 4-8%? 4-8% of what? Do you mean that there is a 4-8% variance in the thickness of the atmosphere...depending on the temperature?

            The air pressure is about 6 tenths of one percent of the air pressure on Earth (at sea level)

            Even if the air pressure tripled, it would still be 2% that of Earth.

            We could conceivably create an atmosphere, but the natural forces that stripped the atmosphere away in the past, still exist. Lack of gravity, low internal heat, lack of geological activity, no magnetic shield holding back solar radiation.
            First off, I just read my post and I typed it backward -- air pressure is greater when it's cold - not visa versa.

            The % means air pressure. It's from 4% to 8% -- or basically a barometer of 7.5 millibars. Earth averages around 1000 millibars. We're in our atmosphere about like fish are in water pressure - tons of air pressing on us, but we don't notice it. Mars air pressure varies by 50%, while ours only varies around 10% -- at ground level.

            Another interesting factor is the Mars air is mostly composed of C02 - yet it is cold there. Why? Because there isn't much H20 in the air. H20 is the most powerful greenhouse gas.

            The reason I posted the figures was because people mistake the fact that the atmosphere there is not 1% -- it's 1% of EARTH'S. Mars has enough atmosphere to create wind - thus dust storms - and where there are dust storms the planet is warmer due to the dust being big enough particles to create the greenhouse effect. Those storms also account for more of a muddy or red atmosphere than the sky would show where there are no storms. It can takes weeks or months for dust to settle after a storm.

            There's no plate tectonics so carbon isn't being recycled into the air like it is here - and that is one of the reasons the atmosphere has become so thin. The carbon is forming rocks instead of being pushed back into the air.

            What torks me is the talk about "surpressed" info about clouds. Here's a few lines from the University of Chicago. Sure doesn't sound like "surpressed" information to me. That's basically why I'm having rants over this subject. Just because it's not up on a billboard doesn't mean info is "suppressed" or the person that knows it is a nut job. I just think people need to chill on this subject because we don't know everything yet, but someone studying the issue might know more than someone who reads the news now and then about it.

            .......Today, however, the atmosphere on Mars contains very little water and the conditions on Mars are far too dry for extensive water clouds to form, but even this little amount can condense, forming high, thin, wispy clouds. Early morning fog may collect in valleys and frost may form on the ground, but these rapidly dissipate as the morning temperature rises. Since Mars is so cold, the water is in the form of ice crystals in the clouds, fog and frost........


            They've found something else, too, and have indicated they might have something exciting to tell us, but weren't sure enough yet to make a public statement. At one point they found methane, but were not able to find more so figured it was methane from our atmosphere that the instrument was measuring. I'm thinking that maybe they found more. If so - that means life. Methane comes from organic matter.

            There is a tremendous amount of suppression in science -- however, it's not always "suppression". Sometimes it's just held back because they aren't completely sure yet and have to run more tests. Making announcements then having to say "oops" later is pretty embarrassing for a scientist, so they really like to be completely sure before they make public announcements about anything.

            We live in a whole universe - or multi-universes of very bizarre possibilities. I'm not ruling out anything anyone wants to think.
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            • Profile picture of the author Kurt
              Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

              First off, I just read my post and I typed it backward -- air pressure is greater when it's cold - not visa versa.
              This is incorrect. Thermodynamics 101: The higher the pressure, the higher the temperature. The lower the pressure, the lower the temperature. And vice versa.

              A good example of this is a pressure cooker. Because the pressure cooker allows for higher pressure, it cooks at a higher temperature than just boiling water can.

              The opposite is boiling water at altitude, where the air pressure is lower. Since the pressure is lower, the boiling point of water is also lower.

              Pressure and temperature have a direct correlation.
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              • Profile picture of the author HeySal
                Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

                This is incorrect. Thermodynamics 101: The higher the pressure, the higher the temperature. The lower the pressure, the lower the temperature. And vice versa.

                A good example of this is a pressure cooker. Because the pressure cooker allows for higher pressure, it cooks at a higher temperature than just boiling water can.

                The opposite is boiling water at altitude, where the air pressure is lower. Since the pressure is lower, the boiling point of water is also lower.

                Pressure and temperature have a direct correlation.
                Okay - maybe I"m confusing myself here today and had it right before. At cold temps air condenses - at warm temperatures the particles aren't as close together - the particles collide and are pushed apart so the air expands. However, thinking about it, the air in my tires condenses when it's cold and the pressure goes down. I had it right the first time. Not sure why I got confused about that today. Guess I need some vitamin B6.
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                • Profile picture of the author Kurt
                  Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

                  Okay - maybe I"m confusing myself here today and had it right before. At cold temps air condenses - at warm temperatures the particles aren't as close together - the particles collide and are pushed apart so the air expands. However, thinking about it, the air in my tires condenses when it's cold and the pressure goes down. I had it right the first time. Not sure why I got confused about that today. Guess I need some vitamin B6.
                  Yep, this is correct. Hot air expands and cold air contracts, which raises and lowers the pressure in tires, which is diretly correlated with the temperature of the air.

                  An exception is water, which expands as it cools and turns into ice. However, this is really a case of it crystalizing and why ice is less dense than water.
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    • Profile picture of the author mattschymanga
      Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

      They had to, considering the population control problems.

      They were running out of space fast.


      Originally Posted by Aussie_Al View Post

      It's called "Indian Jugaad". Google it and you'll know what it means.
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  • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
    Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

    I wonder who does Tech Support?
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  • Profile picture of the author yukon
    Banned
    India Puts Spacecraft Into Mars Orbit
    Was it outsourced?
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    • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
      I was reading up on the technology they used to fly there.

      They first made the innovative "Turban Engine". Vindaloo curry sauce is pumped in to a chamber and sensors would say sheeze that's hot and pump water in to cool themselves down causing a lot of heat which would boil the water, turning into steam to drive the Turban's. This was helped by exhaust flatulence that you get from curry.

      However, it proved dangerous and often exploded.

      So, they turned to the "Yogic Flying Engine" Software written on an ancient operating system that has Guru Meditation. This would allow the onboard computer to center it's virtual Chakras, unleashing yogic levitation. Very clever.

      The eventual goal is to open the first Indian restaurant/takeaway on Olympus Mons, and the first to start selling Bombay Duck again ( Strips of dried fish). This was banned in most countries because they dried it outside which attracted flies and insects who laid their eggs in it. On Mars of course, no flies and you could get perfect Bombay Duck again. Plans for a factory there were underway.

      A recent development though which could cause problems, they have photographed Turban wearing ducks on the surface and some people wish to name them Bombay Ducks.
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  • Profile picture of the author yukon
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    I find it odd that multiple countries are so focused on having people on Mars but none of them have anyone on Earths moon for testing. If they can't live on our moon for years they sure as heck can't do it on Mars.
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    • Profile picture of the author HeySal
      Originally Posted by yukon View Post

      I find it odd that multiple countries are so focused on having people on Mars but none of them have anyone on Earths moon for testing. If they can't live on our moon for years they sure as heck can't do it on Mars.
      The moon is a totally different composition than Mars. There is no water on the moon - no oxygen. There is on Mars. There's minerals of interest, too. Mars would probably be easier to inhabit. There's a lot of C02 for plant life, and cultivating would be easier - building a sustainable breathable atmosphere would be easier. It's cold - about like Alaska in the cold part of the winter, but a thicker atmosphere that would warm it up a little bit. We have geoengineering here now that might solve the issue to bring temps up there enough to grow plants outside. If they can do that, Mars will be livable again.

      The Moon can't be as easily structured to be sustainable - and it's small. No real use of migration to somewhere that small if it's going to take so much work to make it livable. Our next best option is one of the moons of Jupitor. It would be warmer from the get on the one (Europa or IO, can't remember which) because Jupiter puts off a remedial amount of heat itself. I just missed having enough mass to be a star. Actually - that might even be a better place, but it's far enough out that we'd have problems getting back and forth to it to do any fixing that was needed to become sustainable.
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      • Profile picture of the author Kurt
        Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

        The moon is a totally different composition than Mars. There is no water on the moon - no oxygen. There is on Mars. There's minerals of interest, too. Mars would probably be easier to inhabit. There's a lot of C02 for plant life, and cultivating would be easier - building a sustainable breathable atmosphere would be easier. It's cold - about like Alaska in the cold part of the winter, but a thicker atmosphere that would warm it up a little bit. We have geoengineering here now that might solve the issue to bring temps up there enough to grow plants outside. If they can do that, Mars will be livable again.

        The Moon can't be as easily structured to be sustainable - and it's small. No real use of migration to somewhere that small if it's going to take so much work to make it livable. Our next best option is one of the moons of Jupitor. It would be warmer from the get on the one (Europa or IO, can't remember which) because Jupiter puts off a remedial amount of heat itself. I just missed having enough mass to be a star. Actually - that might even be a better place, but it's far enough out that we'd have problems getting back and forth to it to do any fixing that was needed to become sustainable.
        Researchers find water on the moon:
        http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/14/sc...moon.html?_r=0

        NASA is planning to make water and oxygen on the Moon and Mars by 2020 | ExtremeTech


        As of now, science has led space exploration. Soon, it will be private enterprise.

        From what I've read, a possible profitable plan will be using unmanned space ships to capture asteroids with valuable metals and ores, then transport them to the moon to be processed. Since the moon has 1/6th (?) the graivity and no atmosphere, landing and taking off from the moon is much easier and requires less energy than to and from Earth.

        Once processed on the moon, it would be transported to Earth.

        Solar power is much better on the moon than Earth and some type of thermal electric may be used as well.

        One good sized chunk of space gold, diamond or platinum will probably soon be the motivation to push and develop space tech and take exploration to the next level.
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      • Profile picture of the author yukon
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        Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

        The moon is a totally different composition than Mars. There is no water on the moon - no oxygen. There is on Mars. There's minerals of interest, too. Mars would probably be easier to inhabit. There's a lot of C02 for plant life, and cultivating would be easier - building a sustainable breathable atmosphere would be easier. It's cold - about like Alaska in the cold part of the winter, but a thicker atmosphere that would warm it up a little bit. We have geoengineering here now that might solve the issue to bring temps up there enough to grow plants outside. If they can do that, Mars will be livable again.

        The Moon can't be as easily structured to be sustainable - and it's small. No real use of migration to somewhere that small if it's going to take so much work to make it livable. Our next best option is one of the moons of Jupitor. It would be warmer from the get on the one (Europa or IO, can't remember which) because Jupiter puts off a remedial amount of heat itself. I just missed having enough mass to be a star. Actually - that might even be a better place, but it's far enough out that we'd have problems getting back and forth to it to do any fixing that was needed to become sustainable.
        Yet they'll never breathe a breath of fresh air inside those space suits, the same space suits used anywhere else in space.

        I'm all for space travel but those folks that are planning on going to Mars are suicidal considering they can't figure out how to live on the moon first. Remember, there's no return trip from Mars, but there's a return trip from the moon If all else fails.
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      • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
        Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

        The Moon can't be as easily structured to be sustainable - and it's small. No real use of migration to somewhere that small if it's going to take so much work to make it livable. Our next best option is one of the moons of Jupitor. It would be warmer from the get on the one (Europa or IO, can't remember which) because Jupiter puts off a remedial amount of heat itself. I just missed having enough mass to be a star. Actually - that might even be a better place, but it's far enough out that we'd have problems getting back and forth to it to do any fixing that was needed to become sustainable.
        Jupiter puts out lots of internally generated heat. But that heat is in the form of radiation.

        We would never even be able to land on any of the inner moons, let alone live there.

        And the heat from the moons is generated from massive geological activity, because of the pull from Jupiter and the other moons. As well as elliptical orbits. I don't know exactly what problems that presents.

        There is only one reason to try to live on another planet...this one is too close to an expanding Sun. In every other case, it's easier to fix the Earths environment, than create a new one on another planet.

        Neil deGrasse Tyson gave a great talk on that very subject. I wish I could find the right video.
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        • Profile picture of the author HeySal
          Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

          Jupiter puts out lots of internally generated heat. But that heat is in the form of radiation.

          We would never even be able to land on any of the inner moons, let alone live there.

          And the heat from the moons is generated from massive geological activity, because of the pull from Jupiter and the other moons. As well as elliptical orbits. I don't know exactly what problems that presents.

          There is only one reason to try to live on another planet...this one is too close to an expanding Sun. In every other case, it's easier to fix the Earths environment, than create a new one on another planet.

          Neil deGrasse Tyson gave a great talk on that very subject. I wish I could find the right video.
          The sun's heat is radiation, too. If you were up in a spacecraft during some of the flares, that radiation could go right through the craft and kill you. Our atmosphere and magnetic field are a lot more protection than some realize.

          Geological activity is good at some points. One of the moons has volcanoes. I would think that indicates plate tectonics - in which case the atmosphere would be self replenishing. The problem is - lots of volcanoes, lots of sulfur in the air. Would have to wait for the volcanoes to slow down a tad. On earth, that only took millions of years.

          I'm glad Neil said the sun is expanding, anyhow. If it starts to shrink and we don't know how to live off of this berg - in fact, out of the solar system, we're kinda screwed anyhow.
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        • Profile picture of the author Kurt
          Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

          The sun's heat is radiation, too.
          A good part of the Sun's heat is infrared light, at least as far as what gives heat to planets and moons in our solar system. Infrared is the main factor in green house warming.


          Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

          There is only one reason to try to live on another planet...this one is too close to an expanding Sun. In every other case, it's easier to fix the Earths environment, than create a new one on another planet.
          I posted two additional reasons above: Mining (profit) and scientific curiousity.

          Plus, I'll see your Degrasse Tyson and raise you a Stephen Hawking. Hawking has suggested we need to colonize Space in order to ensure the preservation of our species. That would make 3 additional reasons to inhabit other planets/moons. And there's probably more we haven't thought of yet.

          We choose to go to the moon in this decade and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard...
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          • Profile picture of the author HeySal
            Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

            A good part of the Sun's heat is infrared light, at least as far as what gives heat to planets and moons in our solar system. Infrared is the main factor in green house warming.




            I posted two additional reasons above: Mining (profit) and scientific curiousity.

            Plus, I'll see your Degrasse Tyson and raise you a Stephen Hawking. Hawking has suggested we need to colonize Space in order to ensure the preservation of our species. That would make 3 additional reasons to inhabit other planets/moons. And there's probably more we haven't thought of yet.
            Yeah I know. I'm just saying - we have a lot of radiant heat coming at us here, too. And I agree - I'll take Hawking over Tyson any day. Not that I don't like Tyson - it's just hard to reach Hawking's level. I also kinda was bummed out when I saw Tyson got paid off to support GMOs. I heard his little spiel on them and was disgusted. He made it sound that there's no difference between how we used to develop new strands than what they're doing now. I"m wondering how much he got paid for that. He blew a lot of my respect in that one video.
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          • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
            Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

            A good part of the Sun's heat is infrared light.

            I posted two additional reasons above: Mining (profit) and scientific curiousity.

            Plus, I'll see your Degrasse Tyson and raise you a Stephen Hawking. Hawking has suggested we need to colonize Space in order to ensure the preservation of our species.

            Yeah, I think that eventually we will have permanent bases on some Earth like planets. But that is way..way in the future.

            The problem with other planets in our solar system, is that no matter what we do...the basic planet will be the same. If Earth were to travel into a Mars orbit...we would die. Not enough sun...not warm enough. The moons of Jupiter, Saturn...and outward, are very very inhospitable. Really, the only one that shows any hope of there being life is the moon Europa. There is water under miles of ice. But on the surface? The radiation (not heat) from Jupiter is deadly. All the planets and moons have major problems for us to colonize.

            And to the nearest star with an Earthlike planet? At least thousands of years to get there. Unless we invent a real way to travel that isn't known yet.

            Kurt; Scientific curiosity? Absolutely. Mining? Eventually, it may be profitable, especially for asteroids and comets.

            But as Neil deGrasse Tyson says, The space program is a flywheel that spins off lots of new technologies, that benefit us all...even without them being used for the purpose of space travel.

            Neil deGrasse Tyson could kick Stephen Hawking's butt. Hell, even Riffle could take Hawking. It would take some training...but I bet he could.
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            • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
              Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

              Yeah, I think that eventually we will have permanent bases on some Earth like planets. But that is way..way in the future.

              The problem with other planets in our solar system, is that no matter what we do...the basic planet will be the same. If Earth were to travel into a Mars orbit...we would die. Not enough sun...not warm enough. The moons of Jupiter, Saturn...and outward, are very very inhospitable. Really, the only one that shows any hope of there being life is the moon Europa. There is water under miles of ice. But on the surface? The radiation (not heat) from Jupiter is deadly. All the planets and moons have major problems for us to colonize.

              And to the nearest star with an Earthlike planet? At least thousands of years to get there. Unless we invent a real way to travel that isn't known yet.

              Kurt; Scientific curiosity? Absolutely. Mining? Eventually, it may be profitable, especially for asteroids and comets.

              But as Neil deGrasse Tyson says, The space program is a flywheel that spins off lots of new technologies, that benefit us all...even without them being used for the purpose of space travel.

              Neil deGrasse Tyson could kick Stephen Hawking's butt. Hell, even Riffle could take Hawking. It would take some training...but I bet he could.
              Hawking could not raise a leg to kick Riffles butt back. Riffle wins, except for the goatee, Hawking could grow a really good one.
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            • Profile picture of the author Kurt
              Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

              Yeah, I think that eventually we will have permanent bases on some Earth like planets. But that is way..way in the future.
              I think we'll have outposts on the Moon, Mars and space stations first.



              The problem with other planets in our solar system, is that no matter what we do...the basic planet will be the same. If Earth were to travel into a Mars orbit...we would die. Not enough sun...not warm enough. The moons of Jupiter, Saturn...and outward, are very very inhospitable. Really, the only one that shows any hope of there being life is the moon Europa. There is water under miles of ice. But on the surface? The radiation (not heat) from Jupiter is deadly. All the planets and moons have major problems for us to colonize.
              I read where a group of scientists believe that Mars could be terraformed (no relation) in about 10,000 years. If true, maybe this could be improved on?

              Also, we need to differentiate between "inhabiting" and "settling".


              Kurt; Scientific curiosity? Absolutely. Mining? Eventually, it may be profitable, especially for asteroids and comets.
              Mining will be profitable, it's only a matter of time. I believe we have the technology now to capture and bring back a small asteroid using unmanned space craft.

              I "think" the issue is more financial. The video I posted earlier is Musk's attempt to lower costs by developing resuable rockets.

              But as Neil deGrasse Tyson says, The space program is a flywheel that spins off lots of new technologies, that benefit us all...even without them being used for the purpose of space travel.
              I think this was fall in the "things we haven't thought of yet" category.

              And I can add another reason for inhabiting the Moon and possible space stations and Mars: Tourism. I bet there's plenty of rich people that would pay a small fortune to spend a week on the Moon.

              Neil deGrasse Tyson could kick Stephen Hawking's butt. Hell, even Riffle could take Hawking. It would take some training...but I bet he could.
              But Mike Tyson could kick Neil deGrasse Tyson's butt. Not to mention, I'd make Cicely Tyson the favorite over a tag team including both you and Riffle.
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              • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

                I think we'll have outposts on the Moon, Mars and space stations first.

                I read where a group of scientists believe that Mars could be terraformed (no relation) in about 10,000 years. If true, maybe this could be improved on?
                .
                Think about terraforming Mars. It has a third the gravity of Earth, and is almost twice as far away from the Sun.

                Assuming it could be done. We don't know if there is enough water for the atmosphere, or to create lakes. With a thick enough atmosphere to breath, how much sunlight would get through? Maybe enough.

                But, what keeps sticking in my mind, if we have the ability to terraform Mars, it's still much cheaper to terraform Earth. And we are already acclimated to the day cycle, gravity, air pressure.

                Now, settlements? Outposts? Sure. But not walking around outside in gym shorts.

                And I think that's what some people are thinking.
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                • Profile picture of the author Kurt
                  Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                  Think about terraforming Mars. It has a third the gravity of Earth, and is almost twice as far away from the Sun.
                  I have thought about it. I even read a study by experts on the topic.

                  Terraforming of Mars - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


                  Assuming it could be done. We don't know if there is enough water for the atmosphere, or to create lakes. With a thick enough atmosphere to breath, how much sunlight would get through? Maybe enough.
                  Since Mars at one time did have an atmosphere, it may be possible to recreate another. The size of the planet nor it's gravity has changed.


                  But, what keeps sticking in my mind, if we have the ability to terraform Mars, it's still much cheaper to terraform Earth. And we are already acclimated to the day cycle, gravity, air pressure.
                  The point I was commenting on was your statement that there was only one reason to live on other planets. I showed there are a number of reasons to live on other plantets/moons.

                  But yes, I agree. We need to take care of this planet as a first priority, and it is cheaper. However, it isn't an "either/or" proposition and the reality is, it can be both. We can keep Earth clean AND inhabit other places.

                  While thinking about finding other Earth-like planets is interesting, I believe we should explore our own solar system first.

                  And IMO, we will inhabit other places when it is profitable to do so. We can talk about it being expensive to inhabit Mars or the Moon. But there will be a time when the cost of living in space will be less than than the profit from what someone can mine in space.
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                  • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                    Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

                    Since Mars at one time did have an atmosphere, it may be possible to recreate another. The size of the planet nor it's gravity has changed.
                    My dearest Kurt; True. But since the gravity and the planet hasn't changed, the forces that stripped away the atmosphere already...would still be a major hurtle to overcome. The solar winds would still keep stripping away the atmosphere. Unless we could restart a magnetic field. But, as of now, we do not posess those god-like abilities.
                    That's all I'm saying.



                    Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

                    The point I was commenting on was your statement that there was only one reason to live on other planets. I showed there are a number of reasons to live on other plantets/moons.
                    You misunderstood (or I wasn't clear).

                    I meant the only reason we would have to move, would be th Sun expanding, and superheating the Earth.. Every other problem, we could solve. If we could terraform Mars, we could also resurface the Earth, no matter how bad it was. The possible exception is a collision with a moon large enough to liquefy our planet's surface. I guess there wouldn't be any coming back from that.

                    Sure, there are other reasons to settle on other planets and their moons. And it isn't an either/or thing.

                    One thing that hasn't been brought up is Venus. It's a study in how runaway greenhouse gasses actually do have a point of no return. There is no coming back from the hellish atmosphere there. So, it is conceivable that we could do the same thing here...or it could happen naturally...or due to a collision with a huge asteroid.

                    You and I keep bouncing this ball back and forth, but so far..I haven't seen any disagreement here.

                    Of course, that doesn't mean we are both right.
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                    • Profile picture of the author Kurt
                      Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                      You misunderstood (or I wasn't clear).
                      Based on what you first posted (see below), I'll choose the latter...

                      There is only one reason to try to live on another planet...this one is too close to an expanding Sun. In every other case, it's easier to fix the Earths environment, than create a new one

                      I meant the only reason we would have to move, would be th Sun expanding, and superheating the Earth.. Every other problem, we could solve. If we could terraform Mars, we could also resurface the Earth, no matter how bad it was. The possible exception is a collision with a moon large enough to liquefy our planet's surface. I guess there wouldn't be any coming back from that.

                      Of course, that doesn't mean we are both right.
                      I hope you can see where the confusion may have started?

                      BTW, I brought up terraforming only for discussion. It's likely neither of us are qualified to say if it is possible or not. I doubt anyone knows for sure.

                      I see the biggest problem with terraforming being that even if it could work, it will take 10,000 years.
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                      • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                        Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

                        I see the biggest problem with terraforming being that even if it could work, it will take 10,000 years.
                        Sure, 10,000 years part time. But what if we could work on it full time?

                        I'm joking. Back to work on my perpetual motion machine.
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                      • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
                        Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

                        Based on what you first posted (see below), I'll choose the latter...






                        I hope you can see where the confusion may have started?

                        BTW, I brought up terraforming only for discussion. It's likely neither of us are qualified to say if it is possible or not. I doubt anyone knows for sure.

                        I see the biggest problem with terraforming being that even if it could work, it will take 10,000 years.
                        We have already got Terra, fully formed. You should ask her.

                        If global warming does not get us, we have 1.75 billion years to move out of the Earth, that's when the Earth is no longer in the habitable zone due to the suns expansion, otherwise, we boil. Mars will actually be warmed up by this.
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                        • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                          Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

                          We have already got Terra, fully formed. You should ask her.

                          If global warming does not get us, we have 1.75 billion years to move out of the Earth, that's when the Earth is no longer in the habitable zone due to the suns expansion, otherwise, we boil. Mars will actually be warmed up by this.
                          Yes, and that's something to consider. Of course, it's still Mars.....

                          And the warming would only last a few million years (wild guess on an expanding...then a dwarf Sun)

                          "We have Terra, fully formed." That's pretty funny, right there.
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Wow. Interesting find, Kurt. I guess I need to keep up. Had no idea they found water up there. Surprising, since I had never heard that any of the rock was silica - they already know that some of the rock on Mars is silica.

    I guess if you are talking using the moon as a processing or other commercialized stop, it might be practical. When I think of geoengineering a planet, though, I'm looking at it for general settlement purposes and not just commercial exploitation, in which case, size would be a major deterrent in bothering with the moon.

    As far as commercialized space exploration, etc. I thought we were already there. I thought the time lag was just that companies were building their equipment. I heard a few years back some corps had already had permits or whatever they needed to be allowed to go - can't remember who it was.
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    • Profile picture of the author Kurt
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      Wow. Interesting find, Kurt. I guess I need to keep up. Had no idea they found water up there. Surprising, since I had never heard that any of the rock was silica - they already know that some of the rock on Mars is silica.

      I guess if you are talking using the moon as a processing or other commercialized stop, it might be practical. When I think of geoengineering a planet, though, I'm looking at it for general settlement purposes and not just commercial exploitation, in which case, size would be a major deterrent in bothering with the moon.

      As far as commercialized space exploration, etc. I thought we were already there. I thought the time lag was just that companies were building their equipment. I heard a few years back some corps had already had permits or whatever they needed to be allowed to go - can't remember who it was.
      My guess is that space mining will come first, then permanent settlements on the moon and Mars. Treasure and curiousity will probably drive human exploration in space just as it did through out our history on Earth.

      Be sure to keep an eye on Elon Musk. He started Paypal, Tesla Motors and SpaceX. He's donated a bunch of technology to the public domain and his SpaceX is doing some amazing things.

      Elon Musk - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
      SpaceX - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

      Watch this video of a reusable rocket from Musk's SpaceX:
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      • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

        Shane; You have to understand, that when you make statements like this....it's just about impossible to reply. This is why NASA doesn't give serious answers to these claims. It's impossible to give a real answer to nonsensical claims.

        And of course, the fact that they ignore such statements...means that they are hiding something.
        Ok, so the clear liquid on Mars must be a rock as well?
        I will rest my case there!


        Yea, l know Sal and Terra, unfortunately, a classic example! I don't know what spooked you Claude, but it only stirs up a pot here, and on the Physic thread, it doesn't really resolve anything?

        Take care.

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        • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
          Originally Posted by tagiscom View Post

          Yea, l know Sal and Terra, unfortunately, a classic example! I don't know what spooked you Claude, but it only stirs up a pot here, and on the Physic thread, it doesn't really resolve anything?
          ]
          What spooked me? I don't know how to reply to that.

          Good luck to you.
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  • Profile picture of the author Rick Rodd
    And that's what they're keeping all those dung for. Very rocket science I tell you. Those cows should be given medals or somethin'
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    But earth's human population just continues to rise and resources are continuing to run lower. Terraforming will NOT bring back those resources. I always figured that one of the reasons they are so hot on finding water is two-fold. 1. Excodus 2. Commercial - replace this crap we've completely destroyed with something still pristine.

    However - the sun is a dying star and anywhere we go in this solar system can't be considered a permanent fix for re-settlement. It can teach us how to do it and buy us time to create means of propulsion and transport that will bring great distances into feesible travel times. To really be able to indefinitely survive as a species, we will eventually have to find a way to move out of the solar system to one with a younger star -- and eventually, after millions or billions of years, we'll have to do it all over again when that start starts to poop out on us.
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  • Profile picture of the author WalkingCarpet
    Banned
    Mars does look like a big pot of curry.
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  • Profile picture of the author WalkingCarpet
    Banned
    At the rate we are progressing we'll have long left our physical manifestations and become pure energy long before the sun sheds its skin.
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    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      Originally Posted by WalkingCarpet View Post

      At the rate we are progressing we'll have long left our physical manifestations and become pure energy long before the sun sheds its skin.
      Yes...........I don't know how I forgot to mention that.
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      • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
        Originally Posted by WalkingCarpet View Post

        At the rate we are progressing we'll have long left our physical manifestations and become pure energy long before the sun sheds its skin.
        Unless you watch Doctor Who, or Horror Who, which says that we will stay the way we are, for the next few billion years, and end up psychotic, shrunken heads, with sharp knives!

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      • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

        Yes...........I don't know how I forgot to mention that.
        I got a bulge in my pants thinking about it.

        One problem though. If we did Terra forming, Mars would end up pink.
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        • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
          Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

          I got a bulge in my pants thinking about it.

          One problem though. If we did Terra forming, Mars would end up pink.
          Maybe pink. But I know there would be a huge sign saying "No Riffles allowed on this planet"
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          • Profile picture of the author Kurt
            Originally Posted by Kurt View Post


            I read where a group of scientists believe that Mars could be terraformed (no relation) in about 10,000 years. If true, maybe this could be improved on?
            Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

            We have already got Terra, fully formed. You should ask her.
            Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post


            "We have Terra, fully formed." That's pretty funny, right there.
            In post #51, I anticipated the possible confusion, which is why is added the "(no relation)" when I brought up terraforming for the first time.

            I didn't used to know what a psychic was. Now I am one!
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            • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
              Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

              In post #51, I anticipated the possible confusion, which is why is added the "(no relation)" when I brought up terraforming for the first time.

              I didn't used to know what a psychic was. Now I am one!
              Three months ago, I said the words Terraforming, and Terrable. I also said "I know this may sound kind of kurt, but..."

              Because I knew this day would come. Prepare for psychic battle.
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            • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
              Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

              In post #51, I anticipated the possible confusion, which is why is added the "(no relation)" when I brought up terraforming for the first time.

              I didn't used to know what a psychic was. Now I am one!
              I failed to read that so kudos to you, Master Joke Anticipator
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