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Anyone Else Noticing This?

by Kay King
43 replies
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I glanced at the "numbers" of people visiting the WF about a week ago and it didn't look right so I started looking closer.

Numbers are down - way down. It's a trend I saw in the summer but thought it might reverse in fall - but it isn't reversing. The number of active visitors overall in the main and WSO sections is far below what it has been in recent years.

It's not, as someone posted recently, due to experienced members not answering questions. Many of the questions are asked by those not wanting answers but needing exposure. The level of rude replies and nonsense answers is higher than I've ever seen.

I'm sure mods are working hard but don't seem able to quickly delete stupid threads or ban repeat offenders so I have to wonder if the mods are getting the support they need from admin.

I hope this trend can be reversed but it does seem to be a trend at the moment. I went to the wayback machine and looked at lots of numbers over the years...and this is clearly not a good time for the WF.
  • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
    Banned
    Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

    Anyone Else Noticing This?
    Yes; very much so.

    Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

    Numbers are down - way down.
    Indeed. The posting-volume is way less than I've ever seen it at any point during the last 6 years.

    Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

    It's not, as someone posted recently, due to experienced members not answering questions.
    In my opinion, it's slightly connected to that in that many experienced members are deserting, and some of those remaining have told me recently that they find themselves considerably less willing to answer questions than hitherto, partly/sometimes because they feel the "quality of questions" has deteriorated so much.

    Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

    Many of the questions are asked by those not wanting answers but needing exposure.
    Indeed.

    Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

    The level of rude replies and nonsense answers is higher than I've ever seen.
    I try to restrain myself ...

    Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

    I'm sure mods are working hard but don't seem able to quickly delete stupid threads or ban repeat offenders so I have to wonder if the mods are getting the support they need from admin.
    I also wonder. But, then again, it's Saturday and the forum seems to be almost entirely unmoderated at weekends, at the moment. I know it's a different and perhaps less important matter, but I just had a look at the front page of the Main Marketing Forum, and there's a very high number of threads there that don't belong there. I've reported all the ones I've noticed. It was the same last Saturday: I reported loads of these on Saturday morning (my time) and they were all still in situ on the Sunday evening. (I, or you, or anyone else here who knows the lie of the land, could of course easily have moved them all myself, if able to do so, and actually in far less time than it takes to report them, given the 1-minute flood-interval between reports.)

    Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

    this is clearly not a good time for the WF.
    I'm very sorry indeed to say that I agree.

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    • Profile picture of the author Karen Blundell
      I have noticed the trend too, Kay - even though I'm not on nearly as much - I still see that many experienced members are gone and the main marketing forum is painful to visit much of the time.

      I don't mean to sound negative, but I'm really not surprised - given that everything seems to be focused more about income generation rather than "community" or a healthy balance of both which this forum was before.

      thank goodness for the OT section - at least many of us are still around in here
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      • Profile picture of the author AnniePot
        I agree with everything so far written. I must admit that over recent months, my own post count has dropped significantly. On many occasions I've withheld from posting because many of those ahead of me have been utter claptrap, clearly written by newbies who are writing just about anything simply to give exposure to their self promoting signature.

        On a couple of occasions I pointed this out, only to have my own post deleted . . .
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  • Profile picture of the author garyv
    I think that some of it too has to do with the new layout and design of the forum. It's much harder now (for me anyway) to get on here and tell which threads I've looked at etc. It was much easier before to get on here and filter through the bad threads.

    And since the design change happened basically at the same time as the management change, it makes it hard to know which is causing the most damage. But from watching other large websites in the past, I do know that it's very hard to recover from a downward slide like this site is experiencing.

    The ones I've seen fail always seem hell bent on making their changes work, rather than swallowing pride and reverting back to old ways that they knew worked.
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  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
    Banned
    I've noticed the decline in coherent, interesting conversation and a huge influx of 2014 members who are mostly clueless spammers. I report plenty still and the mods nearly always act on my reports in a timely manner, even on the weekends, although slower on the weekends.

    It's hard to find conversations in the main forums that are really worth joining. I don't normally start threads myself much ... a lot of people that I really liked who used to post don't seem to be around.
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    • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
      Yes, the old guy, may have passed away, (he did the drunk thread a while ago) or he might have gone somewhere else?

      But true, some have disappeared.

      The damn evil smileys are to blame!

      Although l was on another forum, with nice smileys, and it has seemed to dry up; a couple of trolls going on a rampage may have been the cause.


      That is the trouble with updating software, is it might offer some pluses, but stuffs up a few good things alone the way!

      Fiverr updated their software recently, and it was more of a flash style, which l hated, but went alone with it.

      But when Fiverr's revenue started to dry up, (big boys noticed a 90% drop in gig profits) then the new format disappeared to be replaced with the old again, (nice surprise).

      So, yeah, updating for the sake of it, isn't a good idea, sometimes.


      Personally l wouldn't go to the main marketing part of the forum) sick to death of trying to steer a newbie on the work hard, (possibly for years) track, when they have the shiny object in their peripheral vision.


      And l have to admit, that a newbie starting a new age type thread down here, only to have stubborn, denial, isn't a good way to discuss a subject, or utter refusal to see certain facts, (same thing).

      Seeing a UFO in a field, and saying that it has to be a publicity stunt, or movie shoot, can be limiting especially if genuine.

      Someone open to accepting others opinions, instead of putting a large padlock on it, opens things up to more discussion.

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      • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
        Kay,
        It's not, as someone posted recently, due to experienced members not answering questions.
        If you're referring to my comments, those were about the nature of the conversations, not the numbers. As Alexa pointed out, though, they are connected.

        There are dozens of factors involved that I see, and probably a lot more that I don't. Many are "off page," to borrow a term from the SEO folks, but the most important are right here in the forum.

        It comes down to a simple idea. If it matters to you, do something about it. If not, discussing it is sort of like standing around at an accident scene.


        Paul
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        • Profile picture of the author travlinguy
          Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post


          It comes down to a simple idea. If it matters to you, do something about it.

          Paul
          What can we do? There have been numerous suggestions made. Not being easily able to identify posts where we've participated is a major flaw. This alone would have a significant positive impact on participation. They've got a new snazzy interface and sacrificed member participation for it. There're lots of issues though. When freelancer took over they appeared to be interested in input. What happened?

          One issue is the new mods. What sense does it make to hire people that don't even know the rules or where a thread truly belongs? Posts get shuffled all over creation here and often still don't end up in the right place. I've reported blatant infractions and the posts stay up.

          The main forum has become a third party help desk. And even when this stuff gets reported it doesn't get removed. Is management so concerned over losing customers that they're afraid to offend them with the sanctions we all remember? I saw a WSO the other day where someone was selling info on how to sell Twitter followers and Facebook likes on fiverr. Ugh. Freelancer would be on thin ice defending that.

          I've come to the point where I rarely bother reporting anything. I add what I can in the threads that seem serious and spend a lot more time getting my own work done. So it goes...
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          • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
            Banned
            Originally Posted by travlinguy View Post

            I saw a WSO the other day where someone was selling info on how to sell Twitter followers and Facebook likes on fiverr. Ugh. Freelancer would be on thin ice defending that.
            I'm in the WSO Forum quite rarely, these days, but I'd "report" that in a heartbeat, and it's worth doing, because the WSO moderator would still remove it. I think. WSO's that rest on circumventing third-party TOS aren't allowed (thankfully). At least, I've reported similar stuff in the past and it has been removed. "Just saying".

            .
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          • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
            What can we do?
            Well, that depends on the person. Just adding something constructive to threads, as you mentioned you do, is a big thing. If enough people did just that, the challenge would be gone.

            The problems with the design change have been pointed out to the management repeatedly. They tried to fix it. They don't seem to consider it a priority any more, or perhaps they don't quite understand it. (Designers should rarely have the last word in relation to function...)

            I don't see that getting fixed any time soon. I'd love to be wrong on that one.

            The new mods are doing what they've been asked and trained to do. If there's an issue there, it relates to vision, not the mods' work ethic or drive. One way we can help them is to be a bit more positive in how we report things. I read through reports occasionally, and some of them are downright hostile and condescending.

            That doesn't help.

            We can also be more specific. The old-timers knew the shorthand. The newer folks are still learning the ropes, so being clearer is probably a good idea for a while.

            Momentum is an interesting thing. It can be changed by a lot of little forces, a few medium ones, or a single big vector.


            Paul
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          • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
            Banned
            Originally Posted by travlinguy View Post

            One issue is the new mods. What sense does it make to hire people that don't even know the rules or where a thread truly belongs? Posts get shuffled all over creation here and often still don't end up in the right place. I've reported blatant infractions and the posts stay up. ...

            I've come to the point where I rarely bother reporting anything. I add what I can in the threads that seem serious and spend a lot more time getting my own work done. So it goes...
            I haven't noticed that at all. The mods are very responsive to my reports. What I notice more is the "800K kids standing on the field with nothing to do" thing Paul mentioned.

            There's a great thread in Main. Guy had allegedly made $150K/mnth in his online businesses (although now we find that was years ago) and is depressed because he allowed his girlfriend (use that term loosely) to blow through it all.

            We've got signature whores pretending to give him mental health advice and one who tells him to hire some hookers because sexual healing is what he needs.

            Hello ... this is a business forum.

            It isn't so much that I feel that there is a lack of direction as much as the direction is at odds with the ongoing health of this forum, at least as it was. I feel that the main focus of admins is to get as many members, whether they are spammers or not, and convert them to Freelancer members.

            Take the mysterious case of Freemarket. As soon as it opened, people started trying to make accounts with their preferred email addresses. It appears that an account had already been made with that email address, without their knowledge or permission. The user names are all wonky ... like no one would want them and they had to get their password, since they didn't even know the account existed. What it looks like is there is some kind of automated account creation going on with the WF members into the Freelancer site, whether they actually want the account or not.

            They've botched Warrior Payments and Freemarket is looking pretty dismal. I don't see serious effort going into these at all. It's like a clone script was installed to appear to be a working solution for both an affiliate platform and a site/domain flipping site.

            So, what if the primary goal of Freelancer is to take what they can from the WF and convert the membership to Freelancer membership, whether they are active members or not and move on. All you need to do is Google Matt Barrie and there are hundreds of interviews and quotes stating that his goal is to turn Freelancer into the Google or Facebook of Australia... that growth of Freelancer is the goal, and acquisitions are what initially fueled that growth.

            Some of us could start interesting threads for the spammers to drop their links in and then continue to part of the clean up crew. I still do report all the crap, but the fact is, there are few people posting in the main sections that I feel "engaged" with, and that was not the case before. So all these new people are pretty much "engaging" with themselves and the results is a whole lot of very shallow conversations going on, a lot of link dropping, a lot signature whoring, much less camaraderie and humor.
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            • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
              Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

              I saw an advertisement for Fiverr on TELEVISION this week. Truth!

              I keep remembering Suzanne's comments last spring asking "will this be another redirected site?"
              Yep, don't know if we got that in AU, (l don't watch ad's) but it looks like the typical "love and honey, Big Corporation advertisement!

              I got this great, blah, blah, on Fiverr, eventhough l paid slave wages to get it!

              That doesn't worry me, but l can see Fiverr being a slaughterhouse for desperate Graphic artists willing to go from a decent hourly wage to slave levels.

              $5 per hour is my limit, but as said before l am quickly getting away from that!

              Originally Posted by Gijsbertus View Post

              Totally agree with all the above.

              It's becoming more and more the ''take the money and run'' routine in stead of a real community helping each other, sharing advice, tips etc.

              I have seen advice given in one thread, and the exact advice transformed into a WSO the other day...not cool.

              It's me first and then all of you ... move over, so I can sit there...

              It can be reversed but it will take a lot of effort from all members, admin and staff.

              Let's go for it!
              True, we have all seen content here that could be spun into a WSO!

              There must be someone with a WSO, telling newbies to go to main forums for info, to spin into WSO's?

              Been there done that, bought the T-shirt and put it away!

              Although l went the software path! I does work, but takes years!

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            • Profile picture of the author Joe Mobley
              Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post


              So, what if the primary goal of Freelancer is to take what they can from the WF and...
              I get the feeling that Freelancer's intent is not consistent with what most of us would like to see for the Warrior Forum.

              But that's just me.

              Joe Mobley
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              • Profile picture of the author Joe Mobley
                And while I'm thinking out loud...

                MyersForum.COM is available...

                I'd pay a monthly fee for that.

                Joe Mobley
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      • Profile picture of the author Kay King
        I saw an advertisement for Fiverr on TELEVISION this week. Truth!

        I keep remembering Suzanne's comments last spring asking "will this be another redirected site?"
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        January was long, February was iffy, March was a freaking dumpster fire.
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        • Profile picture of the author Kay King
          The comment was related to something posted by someone (don't remember who) yesterday or the day before.

          It might be like standing around at an accident scene - or it might be some in charge don't realize what is becoming visible recently. Or maybe it's a timing thing that will reverse itself.
          Signature
          Saving one dog will not change the world - but the world changes forever for that one dog
          ***
          Dear April: I don't want any trouble from you.
          January was long, February was iffy, March was a freaking dumpster fire.
          So sit down, be quiet, and don't touch anything.
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    • Profile picture of the author Gijsbertus
      Totally agree with all the above.

      It's becoming more and more the ''take the money and run'' routine in stead of a real community helping each other, sharing advice, tips etc.

      I have seen advice given in one thread, and the exact advice transformed into a WSO the other day...not cool.

      It's me first and then all of you ... move over, so I can sit there...

      It can be reversed but it will take a lot of effort from all members, admin and staff.

      Let's go for it!
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      • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
        Kay,

        I must have missed that one.

        This trend isn't going to reverse itself. It's not part of the normal cycle. It can be reversed, but it will take directed action.

        Gijsbertus made the point of community, and that's a big part of the trend. That's as much a function of the members as the owners.

        Personally, I think most of the problem is the lack of a clear view of where it's going. If you give this many people a vision, some will leave and the rest will organize around that. Those people will attract others who share the same goals and principles. The thing grows again.

        Without it, you've pretty much got 800,000 kids standing in an empty field with no direction and nothing to do.


        Paul
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  • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
    Banned
    Yeah, as noted on multiple threads...

    http://www.warriorforum.com/off-topi...ml#post9521640

    Cheers

    -don
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  • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
    Alexa,
    WSO's that rest on circumventing third-party TOS aren't allowed
    Jut as an FYI, that hasn't been a rule here for a long time. Some will get removed for other reasons, though, like the "no spamming" rule.


    Paul
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    • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

      Alexa,Jut as an FYI, that hasn't been a rule here for a long time.
      I see ... thanks, Paul.

      (I'm sorry to hear it, though: my own opinion is that that stuff belongs in black hat forums, if anywhere.)

      Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

      Some will get removed for other reasons, though, like the "no spamming" rule.
      Yes, I can see where "those things" can sometimes overlap.

      .
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      • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
        Alexa,
        (I'm sorry to hear it, though: my own opinion is that that stuff belongs in black hat forums, if anywhere.)
        I agree completely. Wasn't my call to make, though.

        Joe,
        MyersForum.COM is available...
        And will remain so, in all likelihood. (I suppose someone could buy it as a family chat place or something.)


        Paul
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        • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
          Banned
          In all fairness, after my comment in post #2 above, about the forum apparently having been largely unmoderated for the last few weekends, I really ought to mention that that turns out not to be the case today. It's clearly moderated right now, and I think everything I reported this morning has been cleared up.

          So that might have been a little bit of a "premature whine", there.

          .

          .
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          • Profile picture of the author whateverpedia
            Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

            So that might have been a little bit of a "premature whine", there. .
            A good whine needs time to age.
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  • Profile picture of the author Joe Mobley
    Yep. I noticed last night, "Friday night and less than 200 in OT." That's pretty low.

    Joe Mobley


    Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

    I glanced at the "numbers" of people visiting the WF about a week ago and it didn't look right so I started looking closer.

    Numbers are down - way down. It's a trend I saw in the summer but thought it might reverse in fall - but it isn't reversing. The number of active visitors overall in the main and WSO sections is far below what it has been in recent years.
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  • Profile picture of the author laurencewins
    In my opinion, the forum has gone through a LOT of changes since it was taken over. In any case of new management, I believe the new managers should first take the time to ask and learn what works BEFORE making radical changes that may alienate many of the members, especially the long-term ones.

    I have seen a lot of problems here and not a lot of solutions that actually have worked in some cases.

    I would think that if the membership fee was reintroduced it wold greatly reduce the number of spammers which, at times, is more that the mods can handle and gets frustrating for us when we browse.

    I could probably think of more to say but I think that's about all for now.
    I will watch this thread with great interest.
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    • Profile picture of the author ewikk055
      well...that major blackhat forum sucks ....they have more rtards asking terrible questions than we do here...so I'm here more than anywhere else during my off grind times.
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      • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
        Originally Posted by whateverpedia View Post

        A good whine needs time to age.
        A good whine, bowel of cornflakes while watching a loin tamer,....perfection!

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        • Profile picture of the author Kay King
          watching a loin tamer
          Sounds a bit twisted but each to his own perversion
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          Dear April: I don't want any trouble from you.
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          So sit down, be quiet, and don't touch anything.
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        • Profile picture of the author positivenegative
          Originally Posted by tagiscom View Post


          A good whine, bowel of cornflakes while watching a loin tamer,....perfection!

          Charming! Oz eccentricity at it's finest, methinks.

          Urban Dictionary: cornflake blast

          Urban Dictionary: loin tamer
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          • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
            Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

            Sounds a bit twisted but each to his own perversion
            Originally Posted by positivenegative View Post

            Charming! Oz eccentricity at it's finest, methinks.

            Urban Dictionary: cornflake blast

            Urban Dictionary: loin tamer
            They were pretty funny, didn't know about that!

            Yes, what can l say, Claude and Dan have been a negative influence on me!

            But the Late Night YT video's have been a contributing factor!

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            • Profile picture of the author ewikk055
              Ive actually taken an hour out of my day every day to send people here from FB...so ...uh...wheres the WF lead gen. affiliate program?
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  • Profile picture of the author Joe Stewart
    Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

    Many of the questions are asked by those not wanting answers but needing exposure. The level of rude replies and nonsense answers is higher than I've ever seen.
    Agreed. Also, many of the questions being answered are by people with low post counts trying to position themselves as experts, which makes it even more confusing for those in need of an answer.

    Most people don't know who's really trustworthy anymore. Actually, a high post count doesn't even prove anything because the internet changes in dog years. What worked 6 months ago may or may not still work today, etc.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mark Singletary
    I love the irony of complaining about the quality of this site going down while at the same time this site condones/supports/allows discussion, products, and services that bring the quality of other sites down with fake likes, followers, etc.

    Mark
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  • Profile picture of the author laurencewins
    Hey boss, with more than 800000 members, I don't think you can say "not a lot of people know about this forum."
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      bring the quality of other sites down with fake
      You mean like this:

      I am hiring Amazon reviewers for $1 a review.

      ..60 word+ 5 star reviews (takes two minutes)
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      Saving one dog will not change the world - but the world changes forever for that one dog
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      Dear April: I don't want any trouble from you.
      January was long, February was iffy, March was a freaking dumpster fire.
      So sit down, be quiet, and don't touch anything.
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  • Profile picture of the author salegurus
    Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

    The level of rude replies
    OK, but i see my replies as being straight forward and honest, some people need a dose of reality now and then.....
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      I'm sitting here quietly drinking my tea and finishing up my breakfast before going back to work. I'm also reading this and don't even know what to say.

      I just went to the Main Discussion just for the heck of it and the first thread was a question PPC or SEO, neither of those topics belonging there. I didn't even bother to read further.

      As for the suggestion that the "older" members try to make change by helping out with posting good threads, etc., I am no position to help anybody as I'm just trying to put my own life together, which I am starting to do thanks to the good people here who cared enough to kick my ass.

      I don't know what the answer is. I guess if enough people care and don't just stand around, as Paul says, watching the car wreck, something will get done. I care but have too much to do to really do anything about it.

      Realizing all of this, it made me realize something else. I guess it's kind of like a family member who you fight with constantly, but then all of a sudden they become ill and are maybe even at death's door, and you suddenly realize that they're still family and you genuinely want them to get better.

      The Warrior Forum over the years has made a huge difference in my life. I couldn't deny that even if I wanted to. And because of that, I'd hate to see this place turn into another Freelancer redirect. If there was something I could do to help, I would. But right now I have to get to work and try to make some money so I can pay some bills. That's how concentrated my own world is right now. There is just no time for anything else, which is why this is like my first post here in about a week. But I needed to get this off my chest. In spite of everything, I truly do care about this place and all the people I have known these last 8 years.

      I hope Freelancer figures this out and turns this trend around, because I want to be able to come back here a year from now to tell everybody how well I'm doing.
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      • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
        Banned
        Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

        I just went to the Main Discussion just for the heck of it and the first thread was a question PPC or SEO, neither of those topics belonging there. I didn't even bother to read further.
        I looked at that thread, too, and my initial instinct was the same as yours.

        I decided, though, to "give it the benefit of the doubt". To be honest, if I were starting a thread comparing PPC to SEO, I wouldn't know whether to put it in the PPC Forum or in the SEO Forum, and might just put it in the Main Marketing Forum, thinking to myself "Well, let the moderators decide, if they want it somewhere else"? So - rightly or wrongly - I decided to reply to the question, anyway.

        Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

        As for the suggestion that the "older" members try to make change by helping out with posting good threads, etc., I am no position to help anybody as I'm just trying to put my own life together, which I am starting to do thanks to the good people here who cared enough to kick my ass.
        Well, there you go: those were "older members trying to help out"?

        Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

        I guess if enough people care and don't just stand around, as Paul says, watching the car wreck, something will get done.
        Paul's comment there took me aback, a little, when I first read it but (as is often the case with his comments) the more I thought about it, the more reasonable and helpful I found it. For some reason, it often takes me time to digest his comments.

        Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

        I hope Freelancer figures this out and turns this trend around, because I want to be able to come back here a year from now to tell everybody how well I'm doing.
        I'll certainly drink to that.

        .
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        • Profile picture of the author salegurus
          Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

          I'll certainly drink to that.

          .
          I suppose it was lunch time in the UK at the time you posted that...... (LOL)
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          Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.

          ― George Carlin
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      • Profile picture of the author lgibbon
        Banned
        Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post


        I want to be able to come back here a year from now to tell everybody how well I'm doing.
        Um...................
        A year?
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        • Profile picture of the author Kay King
          Les - stop poking the Steven
          Signature
          Saving one dog will not change the world - but the world changes forever for that one dog
          ***
          Dear April: I don't want any trouble from you.
          January was long, February was iffy, March was a freaking dumpster fire.
          So sit down, be quiet, and don't touch anything.
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          • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
            Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

            Les - stop poking the Steven
            It's all right Kay. I just picked up my daughter for a visit from Long Island and we're about to sit down for dinner. Had a nice day and I don't let Les bother me anymore.

            Funny how when you're finally in a good place things that used to drive you crazy don't even register anymore.

            Anyway, I like that one. Stop poking the Steven. LOL

            Maybe somebody should make a banner and market it.
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