StrategicMarketingTN

I've been reading discussions on creating lead gen sites for local businesses that function like the lead gen sites in the IM world. These are basically a squeeze page with some sales message, maybe a video or some other content that is generic to the industry. The sole purpose is to generate leads for a business that you can either sell the leads or lease out the lead site.

Now, I've got dozens of lead gen sites for my information products so I know they work... in the IM world.

What I'm wondering is whether they really work in the local business world. And I don't mean whether some guru sells a product from the stage saying they work. I'd love to hear from people who actually have these sites that generate steady leads.

My question comes from my own perspective - if I want to hire a roofer, I'm going to search on Google for a roofer in my city and compare the ones I find, look at their reviews and such. But I'm not going to optin to a free reports about 10 tips on finding a roofer (and that's considering that I'm an info junkie). When I'm looking for a hair or nail salon, I want to find one that I can call right now and make an appointment, not get an ebook about great hair and nails...

You see where I'm going?

Notice, I'm not talking about a website for an actual business - I work with many local businesses, build sites for them and do SEO, PPC, GP and all kinds of marketing. I know THAT generates them business.

This question relates to purely squeeze page/optin style sites.

Anybody can share from actual experience?

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jeffrey73

I see precisely where you are going with that question. I've had exactly the same thought in my head for the past month now, trying to figure out how to get into the local lead generation game. And your thinking is directly on par with mine.

I would love to see just 1 example of a system set in place, just to get an idea.

GrowConnect

I used to be a Lead Gen agent. We called business establishments to send them an email regarding the services we offered. Some were hesitant but some were interested. It took a while before we got a few good response. But eventually the Lead Gen business stopped because of the very slow process. And perhaps the services we offered were too expensive compared to the competitors that's why we didn't get much clients. :-)

zoro

I currently have lead gen sites and sell the leads to business on a CPL basis.
However, it is not easy getting new clients, as they either don't get it, or don't want to pay for leads.
If anyone has any ideas or has personal experience in getting clients to signup for this type of service I would be very interested.

MRomeo09

It's not easy to get done to be honest which is why so many try and fail. Not every niche works the same, some are better than others, and no I'm not going to tell you my golden ones, sorry.

Here are some examples this is a niche that I charge $26 for the phone to ring.



There were 740 calls generated during that time period. I'm sure you can do the math. Although the number ramped up quite a bit in the last two weeks due to SEO efforts.

************************************************** *****

Here's another niche that is a pretty good producer. I charge $50 for the phone to ring in this niche, this is a typical day around 26 calls. Plus we get a handful of email leads generated that sadly I don't have pretty graphs on.



************************************************** ********

Here's a different one. The bar on the left side is Organic SEO and the other bars are different PPC campaigns for the same client, they currently pay $16 per phone call. It costs me roughly $4 to get the phone to ring with PPC. Total of 305 calls generated in the month of February, about almost perfectly split SEO/PPC.



************************************************** ********

So, yeah it works. The pain is finding reliable people who can handle the calls, and will answer them, and will do what they say they will do. You get the right person though and they will do whatever they must to pay you more money because the ROI is there.

These are big cities that I play in, think 1.5 Million people or above. I think you have to have a certain call velocity to do lead gen. If you're not causing the phone to ring at least twice a day, you're probably better off just renting the site in my opinion. When the phone rings more you get a client who understands your value. They NOTICE that you're causing their business to increase. Harder to do when the calls are very sporadic. I've tried, very difficult.

The nice thing is that many of these are fairly passive. I mean once you have a client signed up they never want to leave as long as the ROI is there. My lead gen sites look like their sites, not these crappy sites that are quite obviously not the owners sites. I'm sure you've seen them. If you saw my websites you'd hardly know it was a lead gen site you'd think it was a real companies website(and it is).

HTH,

Marcos

P.S.- Sorry I know it's a little confusing to figure out what graphic goes with what description. I tried to separate it out by the astericks, but I just can't figure out how to make it look logical. Sorry.

WillDL

GAH! Free reports? Don't do that!

You will fail with free reports. The trick for lead gen is to target prospects trying to address an urgent need.

Don't target "business+area" searches or domains target "urgent need+area" Be the first results for "My toilet exploded" "back pain" or "water damage"

Which is a better lead for an plumbing company?

"AnytownPlumber.net" gives away free report for email submit. You send the e-mail address of people who wanted the report.

"AnytownBustedPipe.com" phone number prominently in the top right corner. Tells you exactly what to do to limit water damage to your home, furniture and electronics before we get there. Then guarantee arrival within 2 hours (I worked with a plumber who had that guarantee already) Follow that with a full contact form. Name Address, phone number, type of problem, extent of damage.

You send the completed form to them.

It is marginally harder to rank busted pipe than plumber, but it creates infinitely more qualified leads.

As for selling your service... Don't, it is a downsell.

When you target an industry, create your gen sites. Start sending the business to the prospects you want to target. Brand the bottom of each site with "powered by Yourbrand.com" just like web designers and word press do. Now go pitch your full services to your prospects. Use your sites as proof and "I'm already sending you clients" for your foot in the door. It is a good one.

Your intent is to sell your full package. Lead gen and site rental is an a la carte fallback if they can't afford your rates. They get a great deal, you get set and forget income as well as a hot prospect to try and upsell to a full client as you make them money.

I would never, ever in a bajillion years start a business that focused on lead gen or rental sites as its core.* I think that was lost in my post i the other "how to sell this thread". I was trying to answer his specific question, not comment on the viability of the market.

*Not entirely true. Before going in house my lead gen/site rental was conducted under a separate DBA name, to protect my brand. I did no advertising other than offering a la carte service through my cheapo brand (yes, I called it that to prospects) to people I couldn't close for full services.

Occasionally Relevant.

akazo

Exactly! This is not the way to go, but the model of building a site, ranking it, and putting a Google Voice number (or whatever) that is forwarded to a business that is willing to pay for the leads is profitable.

As was mentioned, the problem is getting people to see the benefit. It's amazing that people just don't "get" it. It's typically a pretty hard sell even when you have a proven track record, except when working off a referral.

Brite Future Marketing

ewenmack

Lexington Law went from 4% website orders to 45% paid client when they added their phone
number, in bold, at top right hand corner.

They also added a pop up window at the one minute mark to have a person on the phone answer their questions.

They knew they had great conversions with their phone people so they made it their priority to have people phone in on a 1800 number.

The website does have lots of information on it.

That lead generation method feeds a pay roll of 700 people.

Best,
Ewen

If you liked what you just read and want some personal input from me, then this is what I've got for you here,...Clients are people under my protection. "you are nothing but a &^$&#**# genius" "Yea if it wasn't for him I wouldn't be putting a down payment on a 48' yacht next month." "Nobody can beat him"

WillDL

I am split testing that pop up starting very soon.

Occasionally Relevant.

zoro

I agree, and that is my experience. I currently have 2 happy clients who have both written great testimonials about my service and how it has helped increase their business. They are both also willing to accept phone calls and talk to any of my potential new clients in reference to my service.
But, I still can't get new potentials interested. They just don't get it?

I'm not targeting pizza shops here, I'm targeting high end markets, like cosmetic surgeons, lawyers, etc.

JMB Marketing Group

If you want to know how to do lead generation, then I suggest you check out this WSO:

That Friday Funk! See How ONE Lead Capture Page Make $9K in 2 Weeks in the "Offline" Niche...

He will tell you which niches are the gold nuggets, how to get leads by setting up a lead generation site/squeeze page (he also provides you with software that directs the leads to your client's email account), how to price the leads, and how to sell the leads. He also tells you how to get out of dealing with your clients (if and when you decide to bow out of the lead generation business) without leaving your client(s) high and dry.

It's worth the price to check out. I look at it as an investment in your business.

Another resource, which is FREE, where you can find lead generation information is from Michael Senoff. His site is: Hardtofindseminars.com.

I hope this information helps.

Happy Lead Finding/Selling.

JMB

Huskerdarren

With your experience, I think you should test it, especially in a highly competitive market where a lead is worth money. I would get the Google voice number as mentioned for tracking purposes/proof.

Instead of a free report, I would offer something video based and educational in nature. I'd probably do Mike Koenigs 10x10x4 method to get my 'leads' to know, like and trust me from the comfort of their office chair.

For example, where I live there are at least 3 lasik doctors that advertise like CRAZY on radio and on many formats of it. There are also 3 RV dealerships that do the same. On one of them, I think I"ve heard his commercials on at least 10 stations. They are relentless in their marketing. Should he be growing a list and then emailing video links showing off his new RV's in stock and cool accessories? ABSOLUTELY. I am quite sure he'd pay $50 a lead for a vehicle that goes for $200,000 and UP.

A friend of mine told me he'd pay me $50 a lead. He's in the construction services. Pay per click was not worth it to him. I think he gets $1000 for a job, so $50 is a small price to pay.

To the guy with the graphs in his posts. He knows which businesses will accept this business model and which won't. That matters. The method works, we just have to crack the code.

JMB Marketing Group

Welcome to the WF Huskerdarren,

However, it is POLITE, here in THIS FORUM, to mention the person's name who made the helpful post, which was: MRomeo09, rather than saying "To the guy with the graphs in his posts"!

It's a small thing, but an honourable mention at the same time. Just saying.

Anyway, thanks for posting. You've provided some positive and valuable information.

Cheers,

JMB

P.S. When you have more posts under belt, you can also hit the THANKS button as well. I have no doubt that you will be providing more informative and useful posts here in the near future. Therefore, I know that I will be looking out for more of these posts from you!

IrisEyes

This post helps! Thanks

StrategicMarketingTN

See, that's another point I'm wondering about. In the IM world, that makes a lot of sense. However, in the local business world, if you look at GK tool "New York Plumbers" - 6,600 local searches, but "New York Busted Pipe" - nothing. I'm not saying that some people won't type that in, but wouldn't most just try to find a plumber in their city when they have a busted pipe or clogged toilet? I'm just trying to get in the head of potential client for that service by thinking what would I do.

This is a very important point. The reason being is that there are many WSOs sold on how EASY it is to put up a quick 1 page lead gen site and that the local owners are going to fight for it. I have no problem ranking a site on #1 on Google for any of my local area (city of 600K) but I just don't want to put in the work if it's going to be impossible to rent it out or sell the leads.

I like your idea about using it as an front end to sell additional services - I was thinking about the same lines - offer them a custom program and throw this site in or if they can't afford the bigger package, just sell the leads.

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StrategicMarketingTN

Hey Marcos, thanks for that detailed info.

Do you care to share the ones that do not work? Everybody is referring to plastic surgeons and lawyers... They must be bombarded by these types of offers...

So are you doing the phone answering on your end (by hiring somebody or outsourcing to a call center) or are the phone calls going to the actual business?

This is exactly what I thought about doing - building a regular business website for that niche and when I get a client to pay for the leads or rent the site, place their info on it as if it's their website. Is that how you do it?

Thanks a bunch.

Katerina

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WillDL

Rank newyorkbustedpipe.com for " new york plumbers". I was trying to tell you to go for a domain name that is a match to the need, not a match to the search term. It isn't that much harder to do, and creates more qualified leads. People going to busted pipe, probably have a busted pipe. If they click on your site it will solve their problem quickly and conveniently.

Please ignore most of the overhyped bs about lead gen. I ignore of two dozen different lead brokers a week at work. It isn't easy to sell on its own. It is a much easier down sell once you've established your credentials.

Occasionally Relevant.

Mike Grant

Then you're doing it wrong.

With my methods, I'm able to close about 80% of businesses I contact.

Speed Kills Manifesto - The Single Most Overlooked Tactic - Proven to Increase Conversions 100% Overnight, Traffic 240% in 3 Days

WillDL

Then keep on rocking it, and maybe share with everyone else.

Everybody has different styles, and I freely admit I am not the best salesman.

Occasionally Relevant.

Mike Grant

I've several methods, pending on the business and what info I can gather about the owner.

Sometimes I'll tell them to expect an influx of calls and I'll call in a week to gauge their reaction. I'll be using SEO, G PPC, and Facebook PPC to drive leads. If it's a huge client, I'll even do a direct mail campaign, but it also depends on the niche.

Sometimes I won't tell them at all. They'll just be confused as to why they're getting so many calls until I call them and tell them why.

Direct mail certainly works getting past the gate keeper.

There's no limits, really.

Speed Kills Manifesto - The Single Most Overlooked Tactic - Proven to Increase Conversions 100% Overnight, Traffic 240% in 3 Days

WildGale

If you have actual hot leads, they shouldn't be able to sell, but they won't sell by themselves either. I see a lot of sites set up obviously for leasing, with pretty weak lead-capture systems in place, and a note that says "this space is for lease for one business exclusively." I wonder in those cases if the consultant is simply taking a "if you build it, they will come" approach. That approach can't be all that lucrative.

kenmichaels

I know that lead gen works, it's 1 model that I use. But, every market and business is different so it's not a one size fits all.

For example… I agree with WillDL when he mentions listing a phone number if you're going to target a service business like plumbing. Usually people doing a search for a local plumber don't want to read a free report, receive an email or watch a video on a blog. They want to call someone right NOW and have someone answer the phone or they are going some place else. But you can do additional work with the plumber that includes setting up video's and help make them the go to expert in that area by branding.

In other businesses I would disagree with WillDL that you shouldn't do a free report. Free reports can and do work with the right business and the right model.

Your on the right track when your thinking about what will their potential client or customer be wanting when typing in their search.

One mistake I made when starting out was just wanting to follow a simple path, then I tried to fit every business in to what I was offering. When I did that I might make a $500 sale and some times just $200 because the market was small and I needed to get someone renting the site. I would also charge a smaller monthly fee. The responses from my clients were usually luke warm after a couple of months and they didn't see the true value. When I changed my model and got away from the cookie cutter template. I started to treat every business different and tailor a more complete short term and long term SEO and marketing strategy for them I was able to add services and increase my value to that business.

I still use the lead gen model and google places listing as a door opener, but from there I try and see what services does that business really need to get the full value of what I have to offer.

Hope that sorta kinda helped,
Ken

fgrimes

I like the idea of selling or renting the site, seems more lucrative in the long-term.

O0o0O

Live chat during weekday business hours also increases conversions. Have your live chat button located in the top right corner along with your phone number, and your signup conversion rates will skyrocket.

patadeperro

WillDl have explained some important points what nobody is explaining you is the marketing behind a lead generation website because you need to understand the following points:

a) The industry you are going to be selling the leads. (Do they know what is a lead?, do they use them?)

b) The purchase cycle (example: the purchase cycle on a home it is longer than with a plumber, there are unexpected purchases with zero purchase cycle example: cemeteries)

c) and most important What key phrase you are going to be targeting, people are looking for solution to specific problem furthermore what problem is the one you are going to solve and how example: if somebody needs money you can solve the problem by creating extra income or by decreasing their debt.

I have applied this method several times and I can tell you it works, but first you need to work more in your marketing and less on your SEO.

From my perspective the BEST industry to work with this type of model is the FINANCIAL INDUSTRY why? because they already know what is a lead, so you dont have to work on the part of educating the client.

Feel free to PM any doubts you may have I will be happy to help you.

Who else wants a Free SEO Course?"

Learn To Sell First, Then Sell On line

StrategicMarketingTN

Ok, that makes sense. I misunderstood earlier. Good advice.

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Jimian

I just build the site as pure lead-gen and either lease it to the owner or sell the leads..

bestrhodeislandroofer dot com
flooringkennesaw dot com (for my own brother who said this has done more
than any other thing online he's tried)

OFFLINE Marketing Strategies For The OFFLINE Warrior

StrategicMarketingTN

So you are going beyond just ranking the website and letting it bring the leads. You're in the whole lead generation business. That opens up a lot more possibilities (and a lot more work, I guess).

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StrategicMarketingTN

Thank you for the examples. I know many people are afraid to share their sites, but it does help a lot to see what's working.

When I posted this thread, I was inquiring about the general concept of lead generating sites that are generic and not describing any particular business. So seems like that idea is not really a good one (despite quite a few info products promoting it).

It seems that the answer is to make the lead gen site look like a website of an actual business for it to be effective, which makes sense.

As far as monetizing then, what is better - selling the leads or leasing the site? My gut feeling tells me that the answer may vary based on the industry - it seems that for some selling the leads would be better and for others, leasing the website. I'm not really sure how to determine that though.

Any suggestions?

Thanks

Katerina

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Jimian

Yeah...that's got Jack Mize written all over it. It works though.

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Jimian

I think people kinda want to see (something) they're getting... not just "leads" ...it gets them to say the "Oh, I see"


This is my fourth one I'm leasing...they're all different in how I promote them...postcards, calls, emails, sending videos...

OFFLINE Marketing Strategies For The OFFLINE Warrior

HTNMedia

My tactics is,

I use the newspaper in this way, find some ads and contact the owner and ask him how many calls he received with the ads, for sure it's not a big number and it cost around 500$.

So just tell him you can send him 200 calls for the same price and now he understand, so it's work very well for me.

Enjoy !

PS Sorry for my english ;-)

Martin

==> ►25 FREE Lifetime Text Links ►► Go Grab Now...

mr2monster

Yes, they work. Plain and simple.

They're a little different from the "Free Report" type lead sites that IMers use to bribe people into giving their contact info.

I work with several clients, and sometimes a type of business just isn't worth the effort in producing leads for. i.e a nail salon...

I tend only to work with high profit companies that can afford to pay me well on a per lead basis.

Most times these types of companies are longer transaction type of companies (i.e. loan modification, real estate, bankruptcy, etc) so you can get away with giving information for contact information.

I also work with a dentist, and the "free report" for your contact info doesnt' really work in that niche... So we give a free cleaning away.

I worked with a CPA for a while, and we gave a free consult away to help capture the lead...


A lot of times, I position my lead sites as "applications" more than "get more information". For example, in the loan modification niche, I simply say "Apply Online" and collect a slew of information from the prospect (nothing like social security # or anything) and then on the thank you page just say "Thank you for applying, one of our representatives will contact you to discuss your preliminary qualification" or something like that.


There are tons of ways to get someone to fill out a form... As a lead generator, you have to pick your clients well in order to make it "worth the trouble" for you to generate leads.

Hope that helps.

mr2monster

Search "Phoenix Auto Insurance" and click any of the paid ads (and majority of organic ones) and you'll see that the first thing they ask for is contact info and "apply online" type information.

mr2monster

It's all about the "right" clients..

I have clients beating my door down to buy leads from me because I choose the right niches.

It took a bit for my dentist to understand "performance marketing" but other industries that have higher profit margins understand it perfectly, and actually prefer it very much to paying someone for "SEO services".

I basically pitch it to them as performance marketing. You pay when you get contact information. When you break it down like that, it makes better sense to them.. especially if you're talking to a business owner that knows how much it costs him to generate a new client.

jsherloc

Also, brief related side-note to this thread topic: CHECK YOUR STATE LAWS AND INDUSTRY REGULATIONS regarding lead generation/performance marketing/getting commissions/testimonials/etc. Certain industries that work AMAZING for online lead generation are also sometimes the most regulated and "strict" industries with a lot of evolving "do's" and "don'ts" that are easy to miss.

A lot of these regulations have to do with taking commissions and specific CPL business models, in some States/industries it gets a bit "grey-area". This is really only so for the some of the "higher-end" professions I've found though. Also, if you do encounter some "strictness", you can be flexible and opt for "monthly marketing payments" rather than percentage of sales and what not.

Hope that helps,

- Jim

http://www.ConfidentBrand.com
Confident Brand. Confident You.

Huskerdarren

Quoted for Truth. My friend tells me SEO guys and Yellow Pages salespeople approach him all of the time. He asks if they can prove what they are selling works. So far they can only offer vague theories. He tells them he'll happily pay for performance (leads). Put wood in the fireplace before then enjoying the fire.

StrategicMarketingTN

That's exactly what I am seeing over and over - many local business owners just don't get the importance of SEO and can't translate being on 1st page into money (no matter how many statistics about local search they see). Which is the reason I started considering lead gen sites - you can show them exactly how many leads they are getting. And now, with everybody and their brother marketing "SEO work" it's getting tougher and tougher to stand out in the SEO world.

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mr2monster

That's the problem... No one can really translate a page one ranking into how much money it means for the business owner (in a way that's easy to understand).

I can rank number one all day long for "My teeth hurt in Mesa" and it matters not since no one searches for that term... but it sure looks pretty in google at the number one spot.

That's where I think SEOo consultants are providing a disservice to their clients. Part of doing proper SEO is making sure you're optimizing for the correct terms, and that those terms are equating into more sales...

And even at that point, it's just too damn tough to boil it down in simple to understand language for someone without the experience online to understand what that means... They don't "get" that their website isn't the reason for the traffic... and so you have to fight to prove that what YOU'RE doing is what's generating those results.

That's why I do lead sites.. It's simple to boil down for the business owner. It keeps the understanding barrier super low, keeps the math simple, gives the client true value (as long as they're actually cultivating the leads), and gives you ground to stand on when they start questioning their monthly expenses.

Generally (for some odd reason) things like marketing and advertising are the first to go when business owners start cutting costs... I've found that when they have something tangible like a lead sheet that they look at... it triggers less as "advertising" and falls more into the "necessity" pile in their mind.

Mike Grant

Could be a lot more work, but my "a lot more work" = "a lot more $$".

Speed Kills Manifesto - The Single Most Overlooked Tactic - Proven to Increase Conversions 100% Overnight, Traffic 240% in 3 Days

mlcmartin

I've had several such "lead gen" sites contact me and offer their services. But personally I don't believe in the idea of buying leads. I would gladly pay them a commission for signing up new clients for me but leads?? Honestly. It's not worth paying for.

I've actually had one call me recently offering to sell me leads for $15 a piece. I offered him a $150 commission if he could sign up a good web development project for me and he declined.. oh well..

patchou

Hi mlcmartin,

They're is few different way to look at this.

What's the value of a lead for you?
You're the owner of your business and you'll kept all the profit so If you don't think the value of your offer worth 15$ per lead and that you're convince that you won't make more than 150$ with 10 leads, why someone should agree to work for you at that price?

Now don't get me wrong here,

I'm a salesman and during the last 25 years, I've work for different kind of business selling products or services and I've also sell leads. One thing that some business owner don't realise it's, there's always a cost to get a new customer. I agree that leads are not good for everyone because if you received some, you'll have to call the customer and "make the sales" and that's not the easy parts. Most business owner are not salesman, they just have some knowledge on how to fix customer problems so in thoses cases, it's easier for them to answered the phone and do what I will call a passive sale. So for that reason, I will concentrate on niche where my customer have to SELL his is product or services to his customer and with my leads, I will help him pass trough the "cold call" part of the job.

Now, to price your leads so it will be a win/win for you and your customer, you'll need to know some of their financial figures.

1- Average amount per sale
2- How many appointments they need to get 1 sale
3- How many calls they "do" to get 1 appoinments
4- How many calls they "received" to get 1 appointment
4- Average profit per sale
5- how much time they spend on "cold calling" per week

2 hour = 20 calls
20 calls = 5 appointments
5 app = 1 sale
1 sale = 500$
500$ = 350$ profit


A good lead can be compare to a "referal" because the client already looking for the kind of product or service your customer supplied. So It'll take them less leads to get 1 appointment. They will save a lot of time and "frustration" and, at the end, they make more sales and that will increase their value/lead figure.

2 hour = 20 calls (leads)
20 calls = 15 appointments
15 app = 3 sale
3 sales = 1500$
1500$ = 1050$ profit

Lead value = 52.50$


I am sorry for the form of my sentences in English, I hope to have been able to help someone