ryanmckinney

Offliners,

I see the random "rants" or people talking crap about WSOs. Usually they (WSOs) don't get to me, ever..this time.. this one did.

So, I received an e-mail from a well "respected" marketer, I even had a certain level of respect for the guy, because he turned his life around rather quickly and became very prosperous.

Who doesn't respect that?

Of course, he is a marketer, and affiliate products will get e-mailed, and his lists was one of the few I stayed on.

Well, I get an e-mail, directing me to "the best offline WSO ever" (or something to that effect, I got and check out the WSO, fully intending not to buy it (I seriously don't buy many these days anymore) and the sales page read similar to something I have been doing in my own business.

So I wanted to see what this guy was up to. Hit the buy button, accessed my purchase.

As soon as I get into the WSO, within minutes my stomach turned, why? The WSO was basically:

How to set up fake Google places, hide behind VPNs in order to get it done, and on top of that, not even paying for your commitment to your virtual address, JUST to keep your fake google places. (I did not get as far as to realize he was preaching not to pay for the virtual address, I was informed by someone on skype when I pm'ed ranting)

Wtf?

Really?

This was the best offline wso ever?

The next 3 minutes consisted of myself:

Getting a refund, and kindly letting the product creator know that this is not how you build a sustainable business, using black hat methods, and now we have hundreds if not thousands of "newbs" that are going to run out there and attempt this un-ethical method. This is just amazing, and I am BAFFLED that this even made it through any sort of screening process to go to the public.

And finally, unsubscribing to said marketer. (Are there any moral ones left these days?)

It is because of people like this, and the sheepish marketers that will surely follow, that is messes it up for the rest of us doing things the correct way -

Doesn't this seem to be outside of Google's Guidelines

Anyone who bought this WSO, and is reading this, knows what they bought. You may want to read the above information closely. I am not naming the marketer or the WSO.


The question: Could anyone here actually practice this method to make a quick buck? Could you knowingly do this?

I couldn't.

Or are you from the shool "If I don't get caught , it won't hurt" ..

Am I off base by letting something like this get to me? as little impact as it has on my self and my business, the chances are slim to none, but still..

/end rant / question

link82

Hey Ryan,

While I was going through the videos, something kept nagging me. There was that little voice saying, 'hey, what if Google catches on? Then what?'. I also didn't like the fact that I'd be using an address (virtual or what not) once and then cancel it. Sure, I only needed it for Google verification purposes but I'm still using it as my location on the internet.

There were little things that were bugging me yet the thread was void of any such concerns. I guess people are afraid to ask such questions and more than ever, the wso launch person is seen saying, 'hey don't ask any ?s in the thread, create a ticket'.

I still think this is a terrific forum. However, someone needs to (or does someone already?) check out/moderate these WSOs before they are approved. If we want internet marketing (for online or offline businesses) to be viewed as a real, legitimate business, these WSOs that promote unethical or shaky foundations need not clutter this place.

I gotta give it to Ryan to make a post here regarding the WSO. I bought the exact same one and didn't see anyone questioning it. I guess when this happens, everyone starts following the herd.

Kung Fu Backlinks

I was more concerned with the reviews this thing got. I'm not even convinced they were legit reviews, but I will remember to stay away from those people, too.

Great forum, yes, and I'm glad to see the thread closed.

If there are any newbies reading this, I hope you always always build your business ethically. It's the only way to live your life.

payoman

I think email lists are a complete joke. 99% of emails that hit my inbox from marketers are simply a few lines of sales rhetoric and a 'click this link for awesome/amazing/great affiliate product'.

What the hell happened to offering VALUE in emails? I used to be on a great list a couple of years back that was ACTUALLY a newsletter : it had a couple of stories, some updates in the niche community and THEN an affiliate link.

Do these marketers think people don't notice when you have 10 lines of text blabbing on in sales language and a blatant affiliate link down the bottom?

Unsubscribed.

umc

I'm pretty sure that I bought the same one and know what you're talking about. I wondered about the things that have been mentioned here, as in what happens if Google catches you using these black hat techniques. So, I did some searches online because I'm pretty new to this realm myself, and what I noted was that while the technique may be technically frowned upon, nothing is usually done about it. In fact, I did a little digging locally and found that a number of local service companies employ similar tactics for their own places page. It seems like something that is often reported, and not often acted upon by Google. I'm not saying that makes it right, but so many people are working for an advantage and marketing methods often involved slippery slopes.

Eddie Spangler

The lure is just too great in the WSO market. The crowd is hungry and ready to spend money on chasing the pipe dream.

I can tell that even honest guys are getting sucked in. Blast my list and make hundreds or even thousands each time, to hell with value, they are too busy making money to give value.

And here is the kicker, the vast majority dont care because they are not in it for the long run anyway, just getttin while the getting is good.

Tina Golden

So how many of you that found this WSO reprehensible actually went in and posted your feedback in the WSO thread?

You may never look at EBR, Sam England or Brian McLeod the same after this...

ryanmckinney

I tried, it was closed (the thread not the product). I posted this about 30 minutes after I bought it.

ryanmckinney

I would have , but the thread was closed.

At least your alarm bells went off, you have some what of a moral compass, and I know you have been hittin' it hard, your day is coming link.

Preeti

Ryan, I know what WSO you're talking about and I have to TOTALLY agree with you! I'm not sure why people feel that unethical and sneaky tactics have to be used to build a business. Don't people have a conscience compass anymore?

Even more so, why would you want your name and reputation to be mixed up in something that promotes shady practices? I don't know..maybe it's just different types of people and schools of thoughts but I believe in karma..it will eventually come back to you in some shape or form.

@Tina, you're right, people should be leaving their honest reviews on WSO threads. In this case, I know I didn't like the product but didn't go back to post. However, I had a bad experience with a WSO that promoted a "mastermind" group that did not fit with my needs, they offered a refund policy but the WSO seller took 6 weeks to finally refund my purchase (even then he only gave 50% so now I'm tracking down the other 50%) and has ignored my COUNTLESS emails, support tickets, PMs, posts on the thread, paypal dispute cases, etc.

I finally got so frustrated (I'm Canadian..it takes alot to push me over the edge lol), I finally left my honest review on their sales page when a potential buyer was asking why so many people were asking for refunds.

It wasn't an easy thing to do. To alienate yourself and step out from the "pack" and leave a reply that is less than positive. It's not a very comfortable thing to do--especially when your personality is non-confrontational AND you know the seller is going to come back and find holes in your honest review.

The truth is hard. But worth it. As long as you know in your conscience that you're doing the right, honest thing and your intention is not malicious or mean-spirited you shouldn't feel guilty about leaving a less than positive review of a WSO.

I'd rather help a fellow Warrior out and save their money/time/energy than be hated on by WSO sellers who break refund promises/promote unethical behaviour/lie.

Okay sorry this became my own rant LOL

/end rant

vndnbrgj

Because it's not always that easy.
Last time I did that, I got banned for a week.

I got a wso, from whom I now consider a serial garbage wso creator, left a negative review, and got an infraction

Ok, fine... It got wso of the day, but the product was garbage. Similar to what is posted above.

I also purchased an article writing service from the warrior for hire section. They didn't do anything they were supposed to. So, I went to leave a review... Only I took a screenshot of my Skype conversation with them... Showing, how unethical and unprofessional this company was.....
Result? Post deleted, banned for a week.

Want to leave a negative review? Go for it.... Just don't expect too much.

I now just delete the garbage from my hard drive, request a refund, and move on with life.

Preeti

That really sucks..especially when you know you're coming from a honest place and are trying to stop others from making a bad purchase.

iAmNameLess

Yeah.. they make it a little difficult to really give a negative review.

Glad I don't ever go into the WSO section of the board LOL.

ryanmckinney

Looks like I would have been banned for a week because I was about to go bananas on that thread.

I seen "crap" WSOs.

This took the cake, it was just crazy, and nummerrouusss pages of comments and sales.

Ridiculous.

IAN , I know you don't bite your tongue, it is prob for the better you don't go in the WSO section lol.

Tina Golden

You have to post your feedback once you have the anger under control as you must focus on the product, not the creator. It is hard to post like that when you're pissed. But if you post feedback only saying what is wrong with the actual product you would not be banned or get in trouble. Infractions don't mean squat so ignore them.

I disagree. I've posted negative reviews and never had an issue. You just have to focus on the product, not the creator, even when you think the creator is the scum of the earth... lol.

You may never look at EBR, Sam England or Brian McLeod the same after this...

iAmNameLess

That's because the product creator didn't report your post.

Rus Sells

Truth be told there are only so many ways and methods you can ethically use when it comes to SEO/Google Places and web sites.

You can be sure of one thing...

The next Offline line WSO that comes out that claims an unheard of never before seen method is completely full of it.

As I mentioned in another thread last month, I purchase "some" offline wso's to see what my peers are putting out. In all honesty I've lost respect for a few people. I've even had one of them insinuate on Skype that the buyers are stupid enough to buy it and I don't care because I make money. If I said who this person is most of you would be amazed.

ryanmckinney

I am not surprised by this. I couldn't create and write something and sell it if I didn't think it would help, but that's just me, I like helping people.

Of course, remind me I said this after I release my 6th WSO that is utter garbage, gettin' on the money train baby.

Ryan

kirbymarketingconcierge

1. People in sales and marketing in the business of providing help to others (like small business), And make a good living.

2. Scammers, con artists, and those desperate financiallly willing to take money from others.

3. People in this industry that want to "seperate people from their money" as the main objective.

3# has a alot of people, so buyer beware.

rhab

I wouldn't let it get to you personally, but I totally get where you're coming from. Like you, I recently requested a refund on a wso myself. This was the first wso refund I've ever requested. There have been plenty wso's that are crap and although I wanted a refund, I never request them because you're buying a pdf and I just don't like the idea of getting lumped into the buy and return type people. But wso's have become so bad these days that I'm starting to not feel any issues in requesting refunds.

Wso's are making people big money now. Money talks and that's why, in my opinion, there is very little true monitoring or reviews of wso's prior to them being released. Everyone has their little wso inner circle promoting each other...

Anyway, you handled it the proper way. I wouldn't follow any such advice or lessons like in this wso because if you take your business serious, you want to maintain your integrity and do things the right way.

http://about.me/davidmiranda

sandalwood

Rus,

When you said

"If I said who this person is most of you would be amazed"

I don't think so. We all have been the victim of people like this so, in my experience at least, I will add it isn't just one guy. I could name three off the top of my head and I don't think anyone would be surprised. How the hell these people look their kids in the eye is beyond me but I guess being a low life is indeed a way of life.

Just my 2¢...

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sandalwood

I just saw this story a few minutes ago as I was perusing my yahoo email. Guess being a low life is epidemic especially if true. Of course you do make a ton of money...

start ---

US accuses Apple, publishers of e-book price fixing


REUTERS - Apple Inc and several major publishers were accused by the U.S. government of conspiring to fix prices of e-books and limit retail price competition, according to a lawsuit filed on Wednesday.

"Apple facilitated the publisher defendants' collective effort to end retail price competition by coordinating their transition to an agency model across all retailers," according to the complaint, filed in Manhattan federal court by the anti-trust division of the U.S. Department of Justice.

The publishers include Hachette Book Group, HarperCollins, MacMillan, Penguin Group, Pearson Plc and Simon & Schuster, a unit of CBS Corp.

(Reporting By Grant McCool; editing by John Wallace)

end---

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ryanmckinney

From hitting buy button to my post, was 30 minutes or less. That was a first for me. I didn't even get through the whole intro video.

I try to surround my self with people who know what they are talking about and want o build an actual business.