Solid Marketing & Tracking Will Be Attacked By Clients Employees

12 replies
Veteran offline marketers will have experienced this and I encourage you to share your stories, but those new to turning around the marketing efforts of offline businesses may be in for a surprise so this serves as a bit of a warning.
This is more common if you are involved at a deeper level and not just selling some quick one off service.

Most of the businesses that need help are often not tracking and analyzing leads/sales conversions etc... If you put in a system that finds flaws you will likely end up being the target for those that feel they have been exposed.
Even if you have the best intentions and merely want to work with them to bring them up to speed there will be the odd character that simply feels they are being attacked. It is fair to say that implementing a great marketing/tracking plan is a quick way for crappy employees to get found out and eventually fired.

Here are two examples that really happened to me.

1. PI firm doing business in 3 states wanted to go national. They operated off the premise that their close rate was exceptional but just needed more leads. Got them ranked in maps and search in top 5 for [city] private investigators in 300+ cities. Their close rate had crazy fluctuations. I put a CRM in place and call recordings to find out what was happening. It became clear very quickly that one senior employee was dropping the ball constantly and had terrible close rates and was horrible at following up. He had not been called on it yet but the numbers and reports were speaking for themselves. He started to aggressively try to sabotage my relationship with the client.

Fortunately the client was no fool, I flew down and our goal was really just to try to train up the guy dropping the ball. At that point his job was not at risk, the boss was a great guy that really thought we would be going over some possible scripts and changes to approach. The employee however thought the board meeting was an audience to attack the quality of my leads etc... I will never forget his exact words when reports showed his 20% close rate compared to others at 70%.

He said "well as far as I'm concerned your seo isn't that great. Just because people call us doesn't mean they want to hire us. People on the internet aren't serious..." He went on a 20 minute plus tangent and we just let him talk. He talked himself out of a job. The client apologized to me later and thanked me for my patience in trying to work with him.

2. Local high ticket manufacturer/supplier wanting to significantly increase their retail business. They had no real internet presence, all old school marketing. Again their assumption was if they contact us we close them. Got them to 3 to 5 full leads daily, on track to add 1 million to their bottom line first year working together. Once again owner turned to me for advice on tracking sales conversions/employee performance. One very senior staff member fought the process every step of the way. Meanwhile others thrived and revenues increased. Eventually after not being able to get her to adopt any electronic tracking the owner put up a simple leads/sales board much like car dealerships use. It was now in black and white for everyone to see that her close rate week over week was 1 or 2 out of 10 compared to 5 or 7 for everyone else.

When the owner sat and explained that finances must dictate who he can and cannot keep and suggested that we all work together to bring her close rate inline with others her reaction was "maybe if you were not wasting X amount of dollars paying this Peter Lessard guy we would not be worrying about how many clients we close..." Apparently she went on a huge rant attacking me personally that he did not want to bother sharing. Once again this owner is an easy going guy that sincerely simply wanted to fix what was broken and could not believe that the employee would rather quit or be fired than try some new approaches.

Anyone had similar experiences of being attacked for putting in tracking that became the bearer of bad news?
#attacked #clients #employees #marketing #solid #tracking
  • Profile picture of the author Freebiequeen1999
    Amen

    This is one reason that the idea of "lead generation" is over simplified around here.

    You can deliver all the good leads you like but if the employees of the business screw it up, there goes your so called "lead"

    I did marketing for a guy and was bringing in leads...lots of leads...good leads....I was so disgusted that his employees would never ask "how did you hear about us"

    we put in a call track system..... i listened to every call from "my" numbers

    and it was enough to make you puke

    They put people on hold,....disconnected them.....gave stupid answers....were rude, did not ask for name number...not professional...it was ridiculous. One was - just rude. One was young, silly airhead.,,,one was a very frazzled lady with a lot of personal problems. None of them were qualified to work at a fast food place IMHO let alone an office but he is cheap (haha)

    Even with lead tracking it is not exact : a person would call for their parent who only spoke spanish...and they would have the latin sales guy call them back but different last names and no tracking. A person would call from their office phone but have the service at their home and so forth. It was a mess to track and his joke office staff and poor office organization made it even worse.

    Another thing : with fairly large home services, improvements, people often do NOT just buy on the spot. It can be weeks or a month later....a different salesperson may sell it, they may "buy" it for a different property than what they called in on...it is a nightmare to track.

    I learned that one of my leads hired them for a huge job at his business...a huge restaurant,
    when he had initially called about his home. It became too much for me to babysit my leads and deal with the contstant turnover of incompetant people who staff his office for ten bucks an hour. Revolving door of misfits LOL

    Once again : real world vs the world of "wso pipe dreams" LOL
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    • Profile picture of the author DABK
      Yes, it happens.

      The owner of a mortgage company insists that internet marketing doesn't work, even though half the calls they get are from the internet, even 2 of the best 3 clients, according to him, are from the internet. They're all 'fluke calls' or flakey borrowers. It's been going on for 8 months. I thought by now he'd reconcile his thinking.

      Another client I had, had people answering the phone with "Yeah?" And it takes a while for the caller to figure out he/she's called the right number. And some callers just hang up, thinking they got the wrong number.

      I had him listened to a few recordings, and he was amazed. Apparently, when he's in, everybody answers the phone with "Hello. Company Name. This is (Person's Name). How can I help you?"

      Another one is owned by a guy who's brother is the office manager. The office manager brother doesn't believe in SEO. Therefore, he sees no need to track/record calls coming off the internet, follow up with them. And he answers the phone quite a lot.

      But his reason truly is that he does not 'believe in SEO.'

      If he is removed, the company's revenue would go up some 22% (based on phone answering performance alone) instantly.

      But his the owner's brother. It will take a while, if ever, the owner will put business above family.
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    • Profile picture of the author MichaelWinicki
      Originally Posted by Freebiequeen1999 View Post

      Amen

      This is one reason that the idea of "lead generation" is over simplified around here.

      You can deliver all the good leads you like but if the employees of the business screw it up, there goes your so called "lead"
      Agreed.

      I have a battle on my hands just getting retail store salespeople to track leads on a simple tracking form as they come through the door.

      I couldn't imagine the problems trying to get employees to track via the phone or Internet, and having to rely on those results to prove your value to a business.
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  • Profile picture of the author Talltom1
    This is a good thread Peter. Most legit corporate sales training programs that you and I have been exposed to over the years teach the obvious stuff like determining who the ultimate decision maker is. But in addition, you're also constantly evaluating who the different 'influencers' are - both the good ones and the bad ones, kinda like an ongoing scorecard. You definitely need to know who your enemies are, and what their agenda may be, and then attempt to neutralize it, or meet it head on.

    T/
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  • Profile picture of the author MichaelWinicki
    One way to handle the entire "The client is going to screw up the process we put in place" by following the Red Ventures business model:

    "Here’s a glimpse of how Red Ventures does marketing differently: An East Coast Internet provider wants to do a paid search campaign on Google to bring in new customers. Red Ventures will build its own website for that search campaign, which will appear very high in Google’s search results. It will be designed by Red Ventures developers and run by its sales team. All the links and phone numbers on this website all lead back to Red Ventures. So, the brand itself doesn’t interact with potential customers. Of course, Red Ventures’ website is built to the brand’s specifications, but the customer acquisition responsibility is placed entirely in Red Ventures hands."
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    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      I always make sure everyone involved is complimented for their contribution, no matter how small. Everything that has been done up to my visit, is praised, as much as I can..without sounding disingenuous.

      When I get a dissenting vote, I ask a few questions, and then amplify the person's contribution as essential.

      It doesn't always work, but it usually does.

      Only a few people can actually buy. But almost anyone can kill a sale. So you need everyone on your side.

      But if the person isn't with you, or it happens outside your influence, I don't know what to do, other than align what you are saying, with what they are saying. It can be done, even if they are knocking your idea. I praise their intent, and value to the company. "I wish I had more people like that in my company"...that sort of thing. Much of selling is theater.

      I've had employees fight the idea of tracking, because it's extra work, and will reveal weaknesses. But I've never been verbally attacked because of it. I couch it as "A way for the boss to really see everything you are doing for him".

      Maybe a contest where the person who tracks the most responses gets a prize or a bonus. Although I've never done that. It might stop the mutiny.
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      • Profile picture of the author kenmichaels
        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post


        But if the person isn't with you, or it happens outside your influence, I don't know what to do, other than align what you are saying, with what they are saying. It can be done, even if they are knocking your idea. I praise their intent, and value to the company. "I wish I had more people like that in my company"...that sort of thing. Much of selling is theater.
        or worse ... a day or so after the sale ...

        You bought WHAT? for HOW MUCH !!!! ... OMG you just got scammed! ...
        you better hurry up and call your card company.

        Handle enough of those yourself and you learn real quick, how valuable
        a saves department is ...

        Selling a person is one thing, reselling a person who has just
        been told you scammed them ... (and it has to be true because
        they are best friend / mom / dad / santa clause )

        is an art form unto itself.
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        • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
          Originally Posted by kenmichaels View Post

          or worse ... a day or so after the sale ...

          You bought WHAT? for HOW MUCH !!!! ... OMG you just got scammed! ...
          you better hurry up and call your card company.

          Handle enough of those yourself and you learn real quick, how valuable
          a saves department is ...

          Selling a person is one thing, reselling a person who has just
          been told you scammed them ... (and it has to be true because
          they are best friend / mom / dad / santa clause )

          is an art form unto itself.
          You ain't just whistling Dixie. I could write a whole book on just saving sales.
          One that I remember I couldn't save was "My Mom and Dad just told me that your company went bankrupt ten years ago. So I don't want to do business with you".

          What? It was one of only two times I was ever told to leave. The idea was so ridiculous, I kept laughing, and trying to explain that, "if they went bankrupt, how could I even be here?".

          I also had someone's mother tell them to cancel...their dead mother. Try to think quick on your feet then.

          I hate to say it this way, but people that cancel have weak wills. And if their Mom tells them to cancel, they have weak wills. I just have a stronger will. At the end, that's what it is.
          But, when I got a cancellation, after I listened to their made up...rehearsed story, I would always think of a reason they were cancelling, that they would agree with, and make it our fault. And then I would make some small concession, to relieve their stress.

          "Of course you called to cancel! Who wouldn't!". Most can be saved. Even if the evil destroyer of sales isn't there.

          One of us should write a book, just on saving sales. Bet I beat you to it!
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          • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
            Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

            "Of course you called to cancel! Who wouldn't!". Most can be saved. Even if the evil destroyer of sales isn't there.

            One of us should write a book, just on saving sales. Bet I beat you to it!
            And a book on turn arounds, and a book on starting in sales - selecting something good to sell and other criteria/watch out for these things... for someone at the beginning of their career.





            Back to OP:

            As someone said in another thread, "mediocre people don't think they are mediocre".

            And they get defensive when outed.

            It's probably not really a surprise to the owners that these employees acted the way
            they did.

            It's probably not a surprise to the other employees.

            There's probably a lot of relief that they are gone.

            I don't think anybody likes to fire or discipline people, and we all worry about
            what will happen to them personally and financially after they leave.

            But, I've come to the conclusion that it's not worth it to keep someone like that around.

            In fact, it's penalizing the good performing employees, and keeping an owner or manager
            from spending their time how they should.

            Possibly hurts a business's ability for retaining and gaining customers.

            Possibly hurts a business's ability for recruiting good to great employees.


            >>>

            Some people have a resistance to change and it can help to involve them in the process
            as much as possible, as far ahead as possible. "What do you guys think about his?"
            "What's a better way to track leads from this source?" Try to let it become their idea.

            Find ways reduce the stress and fear of change. The owner, ahead of time, could probably
            identify those who will resist change the most.

            I know you're talking about implementing changes to due to marketing and sales
            improvements, but it comes under the broader heading of organizational development,
            industrial psychology, and when you get more involved like you are, you're a change agent.

            Some people just are not going to be able to adapt. I interned on a consulting project at
            a hospital. Back then, radiology departments were often headed and staffed by people with
            military backgrounds because they had the necessary background and experience. In this case,
            the department head ended up having to leave because his military style of leadership
            did not fit with the newer radiology school graduates who did not have a military background
            and who were taking over the field. It was kind of ugly because he did not know any other way,
            would not change, and there were numerous complaints against him from all department
            employees. And a lot of complaints from other departments.
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            "If you think you're the smartest person in the room, then you're probably in the wrong room."

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          • Profile picture of the author kenmichaels
            Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

            One of us should write a book, just on saving sales.Bet I beat you to it!
            You will win that race hands down.

            Everything I know about saving deals comes from one man.
            Sure I have expounded on it a bit over the years, but not enough
            to consider it my own.

            How that room is set up, what is said, actions taken by the reps
            doing the saves, the push, pull, perception the "wanna cancels" are led to
            how the rewritten contracts are phrased, how the merchant accounts are
            dealt with over the issue, the package switching, split payments, lowered entry point...
            and occasional up-sell ( yup - i really did mean up-sell )

            Those are all his innovations - not mine.
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            • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
              Originally Posted by kenmichaels View Post

              You will win that race hands down.

              Everything I know about saving deals comes from one man.
              Sure I have expounded on it a bit over the years, but not enough
              to consider it my own.

              How that room is set up, what is said, actions taken by the reps
              doing the saves, the push, pull, perception the "wanna cancels" are led to
              how the rewritten contracts are phrased, how the merchant accounts are
              dealt with over the issue, the package switching, split payments, lowered entry point...
              and occasional up-sell ( yup - i really did mean up-sell )

              Those are all his innovations - not mine.
              Everyone had to learn somewhere. You think I created everything I know from scratch? I know you don't.

              I used to save sales for my own reps, and the reps of other distributors. One of the easiest people to sell is someone wanting to cancel. I would just apologize, give them attention, listen to their story, be on their side...play the higher authority....maybe give them some token item for free....and seal the deal.

              My secret was that most cancellations came from weak salespeople, that didn't take time after the sales, to get them comfortable with their purchase. Most weren't hard to save.

              Most salespeople don't think far enough ahead to consider cancellations. They think the sale is done, the moment they get an agreement and a signature.

              Actually, a book on saving sales wouldn't sell. Almost no salesperson thinks they need help in that area. At least, in my experience.
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  • Profile picture of the author joe golfer
    Amen. I remember getting tremendous pushback when I recommended a modern SAAS CRM for one sales office. You guessed it, it was from the senior people. They acted like you were taking their Geritol away.

    Hey, I'm 95 years old -- I was a stage hand on Sid Caesar's Show of Shows -- so I get the oldsters, but hello, PCs have been with us since the 80s and the Internet since the 90s. Wake up and smell the microchips -- things are just going to go faster and faster. Plus good people want to know their numbers, not just fake it until they can retire.

    These are the same people that when PCs starting infiltrating offices back in the 80s, they would say jokingly, "Hey, I don't even know how to turn that thing on." They gave up that chestnut when it became apparent it made them sound like they were writing sales proposals on stone tablets.
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