For the marketer of Internet marketing services to offliners

10 replies
Question: Are you building a saleable asset for yourself?

Would you know what a saleable business looks like?

Do you know what each client you bring on is worth to a buyer?

The interesting thing is the businesses you help build their success, is you are building
their assets.

I wonder how many of you think about all this beyond bringing in
the next client.

Best,
Doctor E. Vile
#internet #marketer #marketing #offliners #services
  • Profile picture of the author savidge4
    This is an interesting topic. what is your business worth...and what are your clients worth to buyers...

    The reality.. they are worth far less than you think. Business' without tangible assets are usually in for a rude surprise if they decide to sell their business. Clients will have a period in the transition to leave. Clients can have contracts that end and they simply will not renew. Clients will just request to stop using the service. Clients as a position for worth is weak at best. - and buyers of a service based business generally know this.

    You could be that guy in your moms basement doing SEO to the tune of 6 digits a year... and what is your "Business" worth? squat. You could be that guy that has a SEO Firm..nice office and employees cranking 7 digits a year... and what would this business be worth? In terms of business worth and after an accountant goes through it... the value could actually be a negative. ( ouch )

    So what does it take to get on the plus side of things in this type of business? My answer.. back end systems that save time and money. When someone is buying me out.. they are not buying my clients.. that's just cherries on top.. they are buying the system to produce for their clients of the future in a built and developed system that cranks through the work. - THATS value - THATS an Asset.

    I have had this exact discussion with a few here... Its a rough reality. The ideals of "Building for your future" with this type of business model just is not a reality. You are building for today, and MAYBE tomorrow... but not for much further than that.

    Assets are tangibles... and Myself included have taken a deep look at what and How I do things and have made the obvious decisions to work on developing assets. Yes I do affiliate marketing. Yes I sell products. Yes I even do MLM. but all of these things are assets.. and all of these things do not include the need to seek clients.

    I have taken my talents and actually started working for myself. its a concept. and I am sure they may be a few that may chime in here.. its not freakin easy. You go over to the main board and read about all that failure... I can tell you why.. its hard work building Assets.

    I would very much liken it to developing offline assets. we have all read about Oziboomers framing shop... that's work.. that's dedication.. Online assets... I wont say it may be more work... but I know there are a bunch of us up at stupid ridiculous hours every night of the week to build our assets. - and I would say many of us would say that we know what we are doing.. and its STILL a struggle.

    Business development is one thing... Asset development is a totally different animal!
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    • Profile picture of the author Ron Lafuddy
      Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

      This is an interesting topic. what is your business worth...and what are your clients worth to buyers...

      The reality.. they are worth far less than you think. Business' without tangible assets are usually in for a rude surprise if they decide to sell their business. Clients will have a period in the transition to leave. Clients can have contracts that end and they simply will not renew. Clients will just request to stop using the service. Clients as a position for worth is weak at best. - and buyers of a service based business generally know this.

      You could be that guy in your moms basement doing SEO to the tune of 6 digits a year... and what is your "Business" worth? squat. You could be that guy that has a SEO Firm..nice office and employees cranking 7 digits a year... and what would this business be worth? In terms of business worth and after an accountant goes through it... the value could actually be a negative. ( ouch )

      So what does it take to get on the plus side of things in this type of business? My answer.. back end systems that save time and money. When someone is buying me out.. they are not buying my clients.. that's just cherries on top.. they are buying the system to produce for their clients of the future in a built and developed system that cranks through the work. - THATS value - THATS an Asset.

      I have had this exact discussion with a few here... Its a rough reality. The ideals of "Building for your future" with this type of business model just is not a reality. You are building for today, and MAYBE tomorrow... but not for much further than that.

      Assets are tangibles... and Myself included have taken a deep look at what and How I do things and have made the obvious decisions to work on developing assets. Yes I do affiliate marketing. Yes I sell products. Yes I even do MLM. but all of these things are assets.. and all of these things do not include the need to seek clients.

      I have taken my talents and actually started working for myself. its a concept. and I am sure they may be a few that may chime in here.. its not freakin easy. You go over to the main board and read about all that failure... I can tell you why.. its hard work building Assets.

      I would very much liken it to developing offline assets. we have all read about Oziboomers framing shop... that's work.. that's dedication.. Online assets... I wont say it may be more work... but I know there are a bunch of us up at stupid ridiculous hours every night of the week to build our assets. - and I would say many of us would say that we know what we are doing.. and its STILL a struggle.

      Business development is one thing... Asset development is a totally different animal!
      Let me just ask this. If you don't have customers, do you have a business?

      You could have all the "tangible assets" in the world, but without customers
      what do you really have?

      Just some food for thought. And thanks for the discussion.
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      • Profile picture of the author savidge4
        Originally Posted by Ron Lafuddy View Post

        Let me just ask this. If you don't have customers, do you have a business?

        You could have all the "tangible assets" in the world, but without customers
        what do you really have?

        Just some food for thought. And thanks for the discussion.
        An awesome question... and under the right circumstances the answer could be mind boggling! Lets start with Pinterest. Do they have customers? what is that business worth? Why Pinterest Is Worth $5 Billion - Business Insider FIVE BILLION DOLLARS. and not a customer 1, no incoming cash flow, and only speculation of monetization. - mind boggling!

        Another interesting look at this.. would be the "Value" of social footprint, and how this plays into the hands of a business' value as a whole. this article http://www.inc.com/john-warrillow/ho...wer-worth.html Now all of the sudden we see the term "Strategic Assets" as the article states GoPro falls in this category.... and obviously so does Pinterest.

        The separation between the 2.. GoPro actually has "customers" and when you look at the value and the equation of "multipliers" that determine value.. GoPro falls to a disadvantage, because there are cold hard numbers.

        Twitter... once worth a lot of money... once they started with the "Advertising" and making money.. hence concreting "Value" lost value along the way.

        Looking at these 3 examples in particular... the one ( GoPro ) that actually has customers.. and has physical assets and all of the things that we would consider a business "needs" to be a business is worth the least.

        I would say since the mid 90's business models have been tossed on their ears. As I understand it, and what I believe, its no longer about what you make, and more about the speculation and the possibility to make revenue that can drive a value of a business upward.

        Again I will say.. the VALUE of business today is in the backend systems. The POTENTIAL to make income that carries the greatest value and business multiplier.

        So do you have to have a "Customer(s)" to have a business? and as half cocked an answer as this may be, I think the answer is no.
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    • Profile picture of the author DABK
      I had this discussion with myself back in 2003.

      I read a book about business appraisal that said one way of figuring out the value of a business is to multiply 1 year's gross revenue by 4.

      I multiplied. And jumped up with joy and singing, I'm rich, I'm rich.

      A couple of months later, I went on my first vacation since I had opened the business.

      I put my best guy in charge and went to Florida for 4 days.

      When I got back, I found out that, on day 2, my best guy stopped answering the phones: he couldn't handle the stress.

      I was getting dozens of phone calls a day, and could handle it. But I did not have a system, anything written down, did not have a way to transfer the knowledge.

      And, of course, nothing was automated, nothing was written down. Everything was in my head, if it was something I did. What my assistant did was, mostly, in her head.

      And that got me thinking: my business was worth a few desks, computers, phones after 3 years' worth of depreciation.

      And I was sad.

      But didn't do nothing.

      With hindsight, I should have bought a condo office. I saw a couple listed as sold this year close by where my office used to be.

      For $135,000. In 2003, they were going for 30-35k, depending on condition.

      The very same ones.

      All the office rent would have gone towards paying off my office! In 5 years, my office would have been paid off, practically. And I could have traded up, or taken out equity to buy another property (self-paying, property, that is).

      Hindsight says I should have collected all the house photos and information my business had acquired in years and converted it into some kind of automated home valuation system (I has a real estate appraising business) and sold it to a bank.

      Oh, how I wish I get the hindsight in the beginning!

      Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

      This is an interesting topic. what is your business worth...and what are your clients worth to buyers...

      The reality.. they are worth far less than you think. Business' without tangible assets are usually in for a rude surprise if they decide to sell their business. Clients will have a period in the transition to leave. Clients can have contracts that end and they simply will not renew. Clients will just request to stop using the service. Clients as a position for worth is weak at best. - and buyers of a service based business generally know this.

      You could be that guy in your moms basement doing SEO to the tune of 6 digits a year... and what is your "Business" worth? squat. You could be that guy that has a SEO Firm..nice office and employees cranking 7 digits a year... and what would this business be worth? In terms of business worth and after an accountant goes through it... the value could actually be a negative. ( ouch )

      So what does it take to get on the plus side of things in this type of business? My answer.. back end systems that save time and money. When someone is buying me out.. they are not buying my clients.. that's just cherries on top.. they are buying the system to produce for their clients of the future in a built and developed system that cranks through the work. - THATS value - THATS an Asset.

      I have had this exact discussion with a few here... Its a rough reality. The ideals of "Building for your future" with this type of business model just is not a reality. You are building for today, and MAYBE tomorrow... but not for much further than that.

      Assets are tangibles... and Myself included have taken a deep look at what and How I do things and have made the obvious decisions to work on developing assets. Yes I do affiliate marketing. Yes I sell products. Yes I even do MLM. but all of these things are assets.. and all of these things do not include the need to seek clients.

      I have taken my talents and actually started working for myself. its a concept. and I am sure they may be a few that may chime in here.. its not freakin easy. You go over to the main board and read about all that failure... I can tell you why.. its hard work building Assets.

      I would very much liken it to developing offline assets. we have all read about Oziboomers framing shop... that's work.. that's dedication.. Online assets... I wont say it may be more work... but I know there are a bunch of us up at stupid ridiculous hours every night of the week to build our assets. - and I would say many of us would say that we know what we are doing.. and its STILL a struggle.

      Business development is one thing... Asset development is a totally different animal!
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  • Profile picture of the author Oziboomer
    Originally Posted by ewenmack View Post

    Question: Are you building a saleable asset for yourself?

    Would you know what a saleable business looks like?....
    Thanks Ewen for another controversial topic that will be sure to peak some interest and divide opinion.

    I'm fortunate, as you are, to have tangible business interests outside of the marketing sphere.

    I'd like to think some of the things that add value to a traditional offline business can be transferred to one that sells marketing services to offliners....

    ...but maybe not.

    In most small businesses there would be the accumulation of assets and you would hope those assets exceed liabilities.

    You would also hope that there was some "goodwill"...that intangible value placed on the customer list and loyalty.

    In an offline sense if a business is easy to run and profitable then it could sell for 2-4 times annual net profit plus physical assets.

    If the business can get up and go public then multiples of 15 times earnings are usual.

    This is why some exit strategies for smaller businesses can include positioning the business to sell to a public company so they can increase their value and you can get a slightly higher multiple.

    I've noticed the acquisition of Dentists and Optometrists and no doubt other allied businesses by health funds...noticeably BUPA has been running around buying up the "larger" small businesses in the health space to shore up their insurance brand.

    Could marketers to offline be bought by bigger players...perhaps but only if they do have something of value to offer.

    Now for businesses selling marketing services to off-liners I'd think there may be little value accumulated in the business unless...

    ...you have a solid duplicatable system in place...much like successful offline or franchise models

    ...some proprietary branded solution that can be protected or is difficult to duplicate.

    ...some long-term legal agreements to supply clients

    ....some equity share in client's businesses

    ...perhaps some private blog network or directory business that has regular revenue from other advertisers or clients.

    Given the attention that Google has placed on eliminating PBN this model would only have a limited lifespan but maybe a legitimate content based network of authority sites much like how Digital marketer AKA Ryan Deiss has set up verticals in several markets like Survival, DIY, Make-up etc.

    If you are building your client's business but interweaving a solid content based network not designed to spam but to build value for visitors then you may be able to achieve a higher re-sale value.

    I don't know how much Bill Glazer and Dan Kennedy got out of, or still hold interests in, GKIC but I guess there could also be a model to look at and study as to building something that may have a tangible value to another prospective purchaser.

    One big thing to consider is "Does anyone buy small marketing firms?"

    Unless you can create a big enough "itch" or become a real "PIA" how can you attract that potential buyer?
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  • Profile picture of the author Freebiequeen1999
    Very interesting topic, thanks

    JMO - most "agencies" won't be worth too much IMHO....yes, could sell your client base, website...but most people buying it will realize that much of what YOU do is unique to YOU.

    Some of it does come down to "skills" - you can't sell your own "skills" - you can't sell your "sales ability" or technique....you can't sell your own graphic /design aesthetic, or your own "tricks of the trade" that you build up over the years.

    Now...IF you had a very good website, facebook, etc...I guess it would be worth a bit more.

    And...IF you developed something "tangible" - like a local coupon book, or a popular "directory" (yes, that is a hard niche to fill)....or a local deals/ad site connected to either or both of them....actually becoming an "ad agency" then I think you would have something more tangible to sell

    Ideally you would have some proprietary software you created or something and get bought out by Google or Amazon LOL

    But...just selling your "clients"? Even selling hosting clients would not get a real high price unless you found a true newbie/dreamer cause most would realize that people do jump ship and go with the latest deal.
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    • Profile picture of the author savidge4
      Originally Posted by Freebiequeen1999 View Post

      JMO - most "agencies" won't be worth too much IMHO....yes, could sell your client base, website...but most people buying it will realize that much of what YOU do is unique to YOU.
      THIS is where size matters. a 1 or 2 person "Agency" no.. not worth to much but as you develop in size, you lesson the "You" factor in the business overall. When everything stays in place and only the name on the owner plaque changes, the value of the business increases. The employees become an asset. The stability in the process' become of value ( that backend I speak of ) Not only maintaining current clients but maintaining the standing ability to bring in new clients. again, this is where the value is.

      Originally Posted by DABK View Post

      With hindsight, I should have bought a condo office. I saw a couple listed as sold this year close by where my office used to be.
      I spoke of this not to long ago in another thread capitalizing on the decrease in expeditures.. and then the obvious value of the property over time is a given. I have a friend that about 2 years ago bought a small lot in a small town close by and placed a "jobsite trailer" ( like you would find on a construction site ) and worked out of that. This spring he broke ground on a decent sized building that will be his office and has an additional office space that he will rent out ( he already has a tenant lined up ) and the "loan" for the property improvements will be paid by the tenant basically.

      I was renting office space in town and ended up buying a piece of property outside of town and build a house and my office on the same property. It is doing nothing but saving me money and at the same time building equity. Your basic win win.

      Originally Posted by Oziboomer View Post

      If the business can get up and go public then multiples of 15 times earnings are usual.
      This is on my bucket list. this is seriously what drives me every day. Hind site.. I could have done this with my partners back in the late 90's with a project we ended up selling to a major player. We just didn't see it - we to this day talk about that often.

      It is a personal struggle for me to focus on my business - as my business, and also keep in mind of my ambitions and bigger goals and driving my current business in that direction. Choices and decisions become a bit counter intuitive when a goal for growth is in place. Sometimes the question of what can I do to grow this today regardless of the short term cost.. knowing it will pay off later.. those are hard choices. those are sleepless nights! LOL
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      • Profile picture of the author Oziboomer
        Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

        I could have done this with my partners back in the late 90's with a project we ended up selling to a major player. We just didn't see it - we to this day talk about that often.
        Back in the early internet days I formed a company with an accountant, a lawyer, a software developer, myself and another guy.

        We all had wives and partners involved and were aiming for big time.

        The software guy and accountant were also key to a dominant online niche with another lawyer and investor.

        The other partnership [separate startup] all met and went to US to sell supposed security system for credit processing using new encryption method and proprietary hardware...I can't share fully because of potential ramifications...

        ...still....The guys knocked back $106M buy-out from A@L at the time because they "thought" they would get "MORE"

        - GREED - the killer of all deals...

        Our small deal that had different lawyer and some other partners was seriously neglected whilst the other guys "dreamt" of the big deal.

        Technology advanced and deal fell through....software guy who had already burnt his bridges with us went into severe depression....lawyer bailed but he had other serious big interests....
        ...patents on a technology used in just about every mobile device...[big money]

        ...accountant called me up and we decided to wind up and we got out slightly ahead of even and my other guy jumped when I did saving his pants.

        Just as well because our "small deal"....like several 100K could have been brought down through breached copyright issues in relation to a "Bomb Shelter" trademark that we could have been close to breaching...

        ...the closest I came to making the "BIG-time"...

        and the closest I came to getting dragged over hot coals and potentially total ruin.

        ...fortunately I had adequate structures in place to avoid serious wounding.
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        • Profile picture of the author DABK
          I know a guy who, in the 80's formed a online forum/game playing program/software.

          He was young, loved to play Attari and such games and found a way to improve on things.

          After about 1 and a half year, he had a lot of subscribers, such that he was offered $1.5 million for his setup.

          He thought, Damn, if they're offering me $1.5 mil now, wait a couple of years when I'll have twice as many subscribers.

          A couple of years later, Attari was on its way out, had such strong, new competition that his little empire was worth $0.

          Originally Posted by Oziboomer View Post


          ...still....The guys knocked back $106M buy-out from A@L at the time because they "thought" they would get "MORE"

          - GREED - the killer of all deals...

          Our small deal that had different lawyer and some other partners was seriously neglected whilst the other guys "dreamt" of the big deal.

          Technology advanced and deal fell through....software guy who had already burnt his bridges with us went into severe depression....lawyer bailed but he had other serious big interests....
          ...patents on a technology used in just about every mobile device...[big money]

          ...accountant called me up and we decided to wind up and we got out slightly ahead of even and my other guy jumped when I did saving his pants.

          Just as well because our "small deal"....like several 100K could have been brought down through breached copyright issues in relation to a "Bomb Shelter" trademark that we could have been close to breaching...

          ...the closest I came to making the "BIG-time"...

          and the closest I came to getting dragged over hot coals and potentially total ruin.

          ...fortunately I had adequate structures in place to avoid serious wounding.
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  • Profile picture of the author Synnuh
    DABK, I held onto my empire WAY too long and watched it dwindle. I hit an income and budget ceiling and nobody wanted to invest in spam. Understandable.

    I learned a long time ago that I'm better at planning, building, scaling, and flipping than I am holding onto projects for too long.

    Someone with a bigger budget could have turned that empire around and made millions with it. (Not tooting my own horn, here. I made peanuts from it.)

    Cash in hand is worth a lot more to me than a monthly income. At least right now.

    Every business or project I launch has to have an exit strategy. It's taken me a while to finally realize that about myself, though.

    So many opportunities, so little time.

    Thanks, Ewen.
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