Offliner Fears and Holdups

9 years ago

I'll let you know right after I get back from warming up my coffee, tweaking my calling list, testing the sound on my headset, stretching to get the kinks out of my back....

And by that time, I need to go to lunch, then sip some more coffee to overcome the full tummy sleepiness, run to the bathroom, check my email....

Dang it! It is 4 o'clock, no business owners are going to answer the phone after 4...I guess I'll tidy up my desk, save my call list, and get ready to head to the other room to watch the news.

Those are the types of challenges I had to overcome, and still slip into that "don't get started" mode occasionally.

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mckennabrowny

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Barry Unruh

I'll let you know right after I get back from warming up my coffee, tweaking my calling list, testing the sound on my headset, stretching to get the kinks out of my back....

And by that time, I need to go to lunch, then sip some more coffee to overcome the full tummy sleepiness, run to the bathroom, check my email....

Dang it! It is 4 o'clock, no business owners are going to answer the phone after 4...I guess I'll tidy up my desk, save my call list, and get ready to head to the other room to watch the news.

Those are the types of challenges I had to overcome, and still slip into that "don't get started" mode occasionally.

So true Barry. I have seen it over and over again as to trying to get to it and then having excuse after excuse as to why they never picked up the phone. Thanks for the response!

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iAmNameLess

9 years ago

Originally Posted by mckennabrowny

So true Barry. I have seen it over and over again as to trying to get to it and then having excuse after excuse as to why they never picked up the phone. Thanks for the response!

I think the bigger issue is that they see people having success with one specific method, and that method may not suit them the best but they continue trying to force themselves to do something they don't want to do so they keep prolonging it.

I see it happen all the time... people think cold calling is the only way but they have so much anxiety about it, and they're not in a do or die situation so they're just not going to do it.

Other than that... I think a lot of people have a fear of failure, but also a fear of success.

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jamesfreddyc

9 years ago

Just going off personal experience and what i percieve the typical wf searcher i'd say the biggest barrier is time and energy.

Demographics: 30-40yr old employed fulltime in technology market, built a product and came here to figure out how to sell it.

The problem: 40hrs per week at job, 3hrs each week night with wife/kids. 8hrs spent with family on Saturday and Sunday each day. Add in another 10hrs per week to work on extra consulting gigs outside of regular job peformed via VPN/Remotely.

This leaves little time to learn marketing and sales then the actual task of doing the marketing and sales! It equates to a long term task and not something you can simply learn in a single course offering as well as finding the time and energy to implement what has been learned.

point is: there simply is no training or course offering that can help --- it HAS TO BE a culmination of a learning and implementation rocess over time.

Thanks

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tryinhere

9 years ago

Originally Posted by mckennabrowny

I am curious as I want to understand what people need as far as support and what type of training each person needs.

Are you saying that you are not an off liner / work as / work with off liners and want to understand what problems they have so you can write a guide / you want to release a wso ?

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TheBigBee

9 years ago

FEAR is a prison which prevents people from reaching their full potential.

But here's why most Warriors are stuck based on what I am seeing:

1. They require validation from others; "is this a good idea?" That's weak because no two people share one brain and we all connect the dots differently.

2. They lack any skill or confidence in a skill. I've been guilty of the latter in the past.

3. Society trains us that in order to be successful, you grow up, go to college or trade school, get a job, go on vacation from time to time, and retire. People who live in such a system partially understand that there is another way, they just were not exposed to people going down that path.

4. Unwillingness to put themselves in a "sink or swim" situation. I find that when I consistently put my back against the wall, it raises my level of execution. A gentleman mentioned having a full time job. If he wanted it badly enough he would quit his job especially since you can draw unemployment benefits while LEGALLY growing a business now. Yes, you can enroll in a program which earmarks you as a business owner while you draw unemployment checks. They DO NOT give you any money, rather, you get yourself out of any penalty of having to pay your initial earnings back.

Finally...

FOLKS - EVERY IDEA IS A BAD IDEA OTHERWISE EVERYONE WOULD BE DOING IT. TAKING A BAD IDEA TO PROFITABLE IS EASIER AND EASIER IN TODAY'S WORLD. YOU CAN QUICKLY VALIDATE ANY IDEA YOU HAVE BY DRAWING UP A ONE SHEET THAT PRETENDS THE PRODUCT IS REAL (WHEN IT'S STILL IN YOUR HEAD) AND GO OUT AND SELL AIR. IF THE AIR SELLS, THEN YOU HAVE ENOUGH VALIDATION TO TRANSFORM WHAT SEEMED TO BE A "BAD IDEA" INTO A MONEY MAKER.

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savidge4

9 years ago

Originally Posted by TheBigBee

FEAR is a prison which prevents people from reaching their full potential.

But here's why most Warriors are stuck based on what I am seeing:

1. They require validation from others; "is this a good idea?" That's weak because no two people share one brain and we all connect the dots differently.

2. They lack any skill or confidence in a skill. I've been guilty of the latter in the past.

3. Society trains us that in order to be successful, you grow up, go to college or trade school, get a job, go on vacation from time to time, and retire. People who live in such a system partially understand that there is another way, they just were not exposed to people going down that path.

4. Unwillingness to put themselves in a "sink or swim" situation. I find that when I consistently put my back against the wall, it raises my level of execution. A gentleman mentioned having a full time job. If he wanted it badly enough he would quit his job especially since you can draw unemployment benefits while LEGALLY growing a business now. Yes, you can enroll in a program which earmarks you as a business owner while you draw unemployment checks. They DO NOT give you any money, rather, you get yourself out of any penalty of having to pay your initial earnings back.

Finally...

FOLKS - EVERY IDEA IS A BAD IDEA OTHERWISE EVERYONE WOULD BE DOING IT. TAKING A BAD IDEA TO PROFITABLE IS EASIER AND EASIER IN TODAY'S WORLD. YOU CAN QUICKLY VALIDATE ANY IDEA YOU HAVE BY DRAWING UP A ONE SHEET THAT PRETENDS THE PRODUCT IS REAL (WHEN IT'S STILL IN YOUR HEAD) AND GO OUT AND SELL AIR. IF THE AIR SELLS, THEN YOU HAVE ENOUGH VALIDATION TO TRANSFORM WHAT SEEMED TO BE A "BAD IDEA" INTO A MONEY MAKER.

So good it needs to be read at least twice

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mckennabrowny

9 years ago

Originally Posted by TheBigBee

FEAR is a prison which prevents people from reaching their full potential.

But here's why most Warriors are stuck based on what I am seeing:

1. They require validation from others; "is this a good idea?" That's weak because no two people share one brain and we all connect the dots differently.

2. They lack any skill or confidence in a skill. I've been guilty of the latter in the past.

3. Society trains us that in order to be successful, you grow up, go to college or trade school, get a job, go on vacation from time to time, and retire. People who live in such a system partially understand that there is another way, they just were not exposed to people going down that path.

4. Unwillingness to put themselves in a "sink or swim" situation. I find that when I consistently put my back against the wall, it raises my level of execution. A gentleman mentioned having a full time job. If he wanted it badly enough he would quit his job especially since you can draw unemployment benefits while LEGALLY growing a business now. Yes, you can enroll in a program which earmarks you as a business owner while you draw unemployment checks. They DO NOT give you any money, rather, you get yourself out of any penalty of having to pay your initial earnings back.

Finally...

FOLKS - EVERY IDEA IS A BAD IDEA OTHERWISE EVERYONE WOULD BE DOING IT. TAKING A BAD IDEA TO PROFITABLE IS EASIER AND EASIER IN TODAY'S WORLD. YOU CAN QUICKLY VALIDATE ANY IDEA YOU HAVE BY DRAWING UP A ONE SHEET THAT PRETENDS THE PRODUCT IS REAL (WHEN IT'S STILL IN YOUR HEAD) AND GO OUT AND SELL AIR. IF THE AIR SELLS, THEN YOU HAVE ENOUGH VALIDATION TO TRANSFORM WHAT SEEMED TO BE A "BAD IDEA" INTO A MONEY MAKER.

Wow man, great stuff! Really appreciate you putting this out there with the feedback.

Thanks

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jamesfreddyc

9 years ago

Originally Posted by TheBigBee

FEAR is a prison which prevents people from reaching their full potential.

4. Unwillingness to put themselves in a "sink or swim" situation. I find that when I consistently put my back against the wall, it raises my level of execution. A gentleman mentioned having a full time job. If he wanted it badly enough he would quit his job especially since you can draw unemployment benefits while LEGALLY growing a business now. Yes, you can enroll in a program which earmarks you as a business owner while you draw unemployment checks. They DO NOT give you any money, rather, you get yourself out of any penalty of having to pay your initial earnings back.

You would not be putting yourself at risk. You would be putting yourself, your dependents and all of the necessities that those dependents require at risk. It would be absolutely silly for a responsible person to put themself and their dependents in a sink or swim situation then rely on assistance services to attempt to float you, especially when those requirements come with health and physical challenges that might be present. The burdens you would be passing on to others are perhaps far larger in scope and scale than what you might be considering in your narrow perspective.

This truly does not belong in the "unwillingness" category. It's much more relevant to personal responsibility and simply extending the time period it might take to achieve success. I took the OP to come here asking about what course or material he could develop to sell to struggling WF members, which to my experience, the solution is not found in a course/material because it's situational.

Also, we need to clarify this because you are conflating two separate things:

Yes, you can enroll in a program which earmarks you as a business owner while you draw unemployment checks. They DO NOT give you any money

"They" are tax payers. And the "program" for collecting unemployment checks means "they" (the tax payers, NOT the Federal Government) are giving you money, which is separate from being earmarked as a business owner.

And all of my WF member friends that liked his post.. you should be ashamed of yourselves!

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iAmNameLess

9 years ago

Originally Posted by jamesfreddyc

"They" are tax payers. And the "program" for collecting unemployment checks means "they" (the tax payers, NOT the Federal Government) are giving you money, which is separate from being earmarked as a business owner.

And all of my WF member friends that liked his post.. you should be ashamed of yourselves!

The reason I liked his post is because I agree with it for the most part. The part you had issue with, I have had issues with before as well.

What he posted, remains true though. Most people simply won't ever get anywhere because they don't have to.

You know that's true lol. I wouldn't recommend anyone taking such a life threatening risk when it comes to the people that depend on you.

I don't think of sink or swim in the manner of putting yourself in a bad position so you can see if your plan will work. I think of sink or swim in a different way, simply making the decision to put yourself out there and try to see what happens. You don't have to quit your job, risk losing your home.

As you probably know, I was in a situation where my back was against the wall and just had to do something. I was forced to try. Most people never will start unless they're forced to. I think that's what he's saying, not necessarily putting themselves in an awful situation, but just diving in, sink or swim.

As for the tax issue, I disagree... it's the businesses paying unemployment taxes in the first place, and if someone is starting as a sole prop, they're going to get raped on self employment taxes anyway, might as well get any break you can. Is it unethical? I don't think so... Is it burdening tax payers? I can think of 500 other things that are more of a burden to taxpayers than someone wanting to create a business that creates jobs.

When it comes to taxpayer burden, whether BigBee (just an example) did collect unemployment while starting his own business and getting earmarked to avoid penalties, let's pretend he didn't do that... do you think the US Government is trusted to spend tax payer money wisely?

Maybe if enough BigBee's didn't do that, they can do more studies on duck penises. lmao. Government’s wasteful spending includes $385G duck penis study | New York Post

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jamesfreddyc

9 years ago

Originally Posted by iAmNameLess

I don't think of sink or swim in the manner of putting yourself in a bad position so you can see if your plan will work. I think of sink or swim in a different way, simply making the decision to put yourself out there and try to see what happens. You don't have to quit your job, risk losing your home.

I hear ya and I actually fit that scenario in the sense that I give up a lot of things in order to build a business while maintaining regular income and earned benefits from other sources. It's just as difficult and challenging as sink or swim.

But the OP posited the idea to actually quit the regular income in order to be in a sink or swim position.

It's a 100% absurd idea unless you are an 21 year old with no responsibilities other than yourself. That's not the case with most however, the reality is most of us have a big role in being the 1 supporting pillar (financial and a multitude of other roles) in the lives of those that depend upon us. Add in some with special needs of those dependents and the must have financial base to maintain that support....

....that whole sink or swim notion is downright stupid.

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mckennabrowny

9 years ago

Originally Posted by tryinhere

Are you saying that you are not an off liner / work as / work with off liners and want to understand what problems they have so you can write a guide / you want to release a wso ?

Not at all. I've been offline since 2008 and in sales a lot longer than that. Just gathering ideas and hurdles people face.

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Freebiequeen1999

9 years ago

I have worked "offline" for years. One thing would hold me back from most of the so called "training" is ...what qualifications does the so called trainer have?

I have stated the truth here (yeah it hurts)..but if people want to learn how to "cold call">> get a Job in a telemarketing room

if they want to learn how to do sales presentations, get a job - draw plus salary or commission with a reputable company and go out with pros

much better than the generic rehash online "courses"

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Freebiequeen1999

9 years ago

I maintain that getting real experience in sales (phone or biz to biz ..or even door to door) is much better

Also potential offliners should have some skill to sell otherwise just hook up with a good company to sell their products. Many want to be "offliners" come to this when they fail at "online" IM....
fact is they probably lack salable skills...they probably should invest in real course to teach them skills.

Take a course in photoshop, web design, or whatever. IMHO most offline stuff can be learned offline.
Get an entry level job in a digital agency, seo shop.

I don't think many "course" in "offline" could fit all the different things people do or sell offline. Some people may want to do EDDM.....you can find a good wholesale printer in your area and talk to them about doing commission based sales as a sideline. Along the way you learn about sizes, how to fit graphics, etc, paper weights, so many different things.

Thanks

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Freebiequeen1999

9 years ago

I agree with JamescFreddy...telling people to go on unemployment and start biz is simply ridiculous

First of all, if you just quit a job you will be denied unemployment
second....you have to be out looking for job , available to work...and you have to "verify" that you did not work or earn money each period, weeks or whatever....

if you earned money....you could be made to pay it back and be fined

<sign> now there is some real fear LOL>> not to mention the precarious position this would put you in

Frankly it is not "fear" that stops people I do not think. If they need some "perk up" they can get self help books at library, or kindle, or read free inspirational blogs...they don't need to buy another "report" or pay a guru

Not fear....just....

many have nothing of value to sell...
and many have no skills to sell anything

take a "geeky" one who can design a site, knows seo ...but lacks sales skills

or take "cheeky" one who can talk and is not afraid to try sales but really has nothing to sell

maybe they can get together...maybe both can learn what they lack
maybe (big if) they can get to the point where they can team up or hire others to do what they can't

but what we also see are people who 1) have nothing to offer to sell, no skills, no product
and 2) don't know how to sell anything if they did have something to sell...no phone or person skills

so then what? they tell themselves it is "fear"...they ultimately come here and want to know how they can "sell" some service and hope to find "some" guy in India or Philippines to full fill it

DON'T QUIT YOUR DAY JOB FOR THAT...AND DON'T TRY TO SCHEME THE UNEMPLOYMENT lol

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Chris Grable 9 years ago

Vision and time.... maybe money.

My sense is that a lot of folks have all the tools available... if not, those tools are well within reach... but they lack the vision to put all the pieces together or maybe the time.

I see a lot of discussion about the training or process related products that are available. Yes, some of them are poor and some of them are great and most of them are just ok... The key to using them effectively is whether or not they are actionable. For you product developers out there,,, I know that mist of you try to make your products actionable and yes, they likely are. The problem is with the consumer. Do they recognize the action requirement? How is the material presented? In a narrative? checklist? slide show? video? online? downloadable? Do you offer some sort of automated interactive assistance (not coaching but an automated drip of some sort)

I know this sounds like a lot of work but if your goal is to help more folks while making more money... this might be necessary. We have all heard the discussions about visual learners compared to auditory learners. The issue goes well beyond visual and auditory. It also goes well beyond learning. Sit any of these folks down and give them a short teast and you will find they do pretty well ast one time through the material. The issue though is more vision and motivation.

You have to engage them, excite them and convince them that they can be successful.

At the risk of generating a firestorm here... I don't care what process or method you are teaching them.... as long as it is workable. We will worry about better processes later. For now... some success with any process or method should be their goal. I don't care whether you, the author, have ever applied the system or not.... as long as the system can work and is actionable.

The key is to get them moving. For them to start moving though... don't forget about engaging them, exciting them and convincing them...
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TheBigBee

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Freebiequeen1999

I agree with JamescFreddy...telling people to go on unemployment and start biz is simply ridiculous

DON'T QUIT YOUR DAY JOB FOR THAT...AND DON'T TRY TO SCHEME THE UNEMPLOYMENT lol

I think we are getting a bit ahead of ourselves. I was making an illustration. However, because it's me, and because you are you, any illustration I made will be under attack. If the guy wanted it bad enough he would figure it out...

Taking a second job to save.
Going door to door offering up his services for free to build a portfolio...
Etc.

These are all things someone could do if he or she wanted it badly enough. I am also disappointed that you would suggest I am telling him to scheme unemployment.

I have become aware of the program because my own little sister is taking advantage of it. A program sponsored and "OK'd" by the government. You fill out a form to say HEY, I AM TRYING TO DO THINGS ON THE UP AND UP.

If you start a business and not fill out that form, then you are scheming.

To be fair, my sister (a mother) did not quit her job. When she was let go it never occurred to her to go search for another. But seeing as how SHE HAD PAID into the unemployment program, it's her right (and completely American) for her to start a business without fear of losing those benefits while she gets her feet under her. She doesn't want to be the "freebenefitsqueen." One barrier has been lifted by the government to her achieving her success.

Finally, the people that got what I am saying - got it. I surmise that you think differently, and that's ok. As long as you're happy in life you should live it how you want.

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Ron Lafuddy

9 years ago

Nothing like the high stress and pressure of jumping into a biz start-up without a solid foundation. Here's a thread that discusses how to build that foundation.

http://www.warriorforum.com/offline-...l-company.html

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jamesfreddyc

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Ron Lafuddy

Nothing like the high stress and pressure of jumping into a biz start-up without a solid foundation. Here's a thread that discusses how to build that foundation.

http://www.warriorforum.com/offline-...l-company.html

I am always paying attention to and reading each of those WF members that posted in that thread.

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Ron Lafuddy 9 years ago

Originally Posted by jamesfreddyc

I am always paying attention to and reading each of those WF members that posted in that thread.

Yes, and while they all have different approaches, the consistent
underlying theme is "don't quit your job".
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- TheBigBee 9 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Ron Lafuddy
  
  Yes, and while they all have different approaches, the consistent
  underlying theme is "don't quit your job".
  
  There's only one me... I got up and quit my job with no notice as a retail manager almost 10 years ago. I just quit because I was miserable, not to start a business. I also made sure there was no way I'd be hired in retail again as an asst mgr doesn't just walk in; punch in, and leave in 30 seconds to never be seen again.
  
  The mental toll was so grinding that I was becoming physically sick at times. If your job is a detriment to your mental and physical health; quit.
  
  It was not all lolly pops and gum drops after I quit, but if I did not, I'd be an alcoholic district or general manager instead of where I am today.
  
  Thanks
  
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  FILL IN THE BLANKS!
  
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dgmufasa

9 years ago

With regards to responsibilities, it seems as though people think their jobs will be around forever. That is not the way the companies in the US work. They morph for their own interests.

I have an IT background (a strong one at that). My colleagues thought their jobs were safe at a rather large company (similar to Microsoft) until said company ~asked~ them to leave due to age, outsourcing or both. Not good news to hear at 45, 50, 55 and 60. Because most have homes and families (some with kids in school), chances are they will exhaust the 401K and savings in the near future.

Managers I have seen also thought they were safe. I saw one (from a large company) who was a high-up on the totem pole with very little tech knowledge. The worker-bees were from overseas (an initiative she started). Last year, she was laid off after 25+ years of being with one *very* large company. Again, she thought she was immune - but now she can start participating in the job-market environment she had a hand in creating.

That's the way the companies work in the United States. The only place where a job is relatively "safe" is in Europe. To depend upon the corporation for infinite support - to me - is tantamount to suicide. Companies are mostly compartmentalized. You will learn *one part* of it but not the whole.

I remember having ideas when I was working full-time. I never had time to develop them because of work - especially the additional hours I put in after work in order to "stay on top of" or just "stay in" the game.

Now, I am learning (since this is not my area) but I am picking things up. Ironically, my sibling says that I am pretty good at sales and just don't know it LOL I suppose she says this because I have been most successful at getting some kind of interest when I am just chatting or expressing ideas / knowledge. I am just getting over the idea that a "good salesperson" is not the one who can sell ice to an eskimo.

Thanks

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DaveTheSinister

9 years ago

Originally Posted by mckennabrowny

I am curious as I want to understand what people need as far as support and what type of training each person needs.

Bridge the gap between video courses and coaching. Unfortunately I have read many posts about students not taking action. The setbacks that these people allow to prevent them from pushing on are much more engrained and difficult to overcome.

Hands on interaction, an ability to read people, and a commitment to giving each person their own required push. Some need only a gentle nudge. Some need to be pushed flat on their @$$. While most probably fall in middle somewhere.

Dont worry about the specific hang ups, unless you are working on copy. Pay more attention to what might cause those obstacles in a person's mind to begin with. Focus more on the individual and how they respond to certain behaviors. When you can read people on that level its fairly easy to push them along.

Most pursue this because of misplaced goals and misunderstandings of the reality of off and online marketing. MAKING BIG BUCKS is most's motivation, and unfortunately that is just not a true motivator. How can a person make fiat currency their ultimate end goal? The stuff has no intrinsic value.

Maybe get your student or students to readjust their priorities, but really emphasize it.... I read a story on this forum a couple days ago. Someone was talking about a moment most dream about. He was sitting at his desk staring at a massive check (he had just sold his company). As he was sitting their looking at all the money he just made, and he started to feel a sense of anxiety. He felt had no purpose.

He had achieved the goal most who come here dream about. Yet, he couldnt handle it. He needed somethign else to keep him going. Its because money is not a real motivator. When the foundation of your "why" is built on something as weak and unstable as gaining money, you have no real reason to push through the hardships involved in any business/venture.

Hope this helps
D

Thanks
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Ron Lafuddy

9 years ago

Originally Posted by DaveTheSinister

Most pursue this because of misplaced goals and misunderstandings of the reality of off and online marketing. MAKING BIG BUCKS is most's motivation, and unfortunately that is just not a true motivator. How can a person make fiat currency their ultimate end goal? The stuff has no intrinsic value.

I agree with you. "MAKING BIG BUCKS" is just shameful.
Once you start down that destructive path...who knows where it will lead?

Out of the goodness of my heart...in an act of sheer kindness...I'm going to help you.

Please send ALL of that Nasty "fiat money, with no intrinsic value" to me, Ron Lafuddy.

I will dispose of it, in the proper fashion. You have my word as a card carrying member of
the Claude Whitacre Hair Regeneration Club.

You can also trust me completely and without hesitation on this, cause I'm Lafuddy.

I promise.

Ron

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Freebiequeen1999

9 years ago

Originally Posted by DaveTheSinister

SNIP

Most pursue this because of misplaced goals and misunderstandings of the reality of off and online marketing. MAKING BIG BUCKS is most's motivation, and unfortunately that is just not a true motivator. How can a person make fiat currency their ultimate end goal? The stuff has no intrinsic value.

Maybe get your student or students to readjust their priorities, but really emphasize it.... I read a story on this forum a couple days ago. Someone was talking about a moment most dream about. He was sitting at his desk staring at a massive check (he had just sold his company). As he was sitting their looking at all the money he just made, and he started to feel a sense of anxiety. He felt had no purpose.

He had achieved the goal most who come here dream about. Yet, he couldnt handle it. He needed somethign else to keep him going. Its because money is not a real motivator. When the foundation of your "why" is built on something as weak and unstable as gaining money, you have no real reason to push through the hardships involved in any business/venture.

Hope this helps
D

?? Then wouldn't it follow that the OP would offer this course for free...out of the goodness of his heart....to truly HELP newbies and those in "fear" of starting up a biz or whatever?

I mean if $$ is not the reason for the season or whatever....why not just follow through with that?

I , like Ron, am willing to take any of that nasty dirty currency stuff off your hands

OMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM

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Offliner Fears and Holdups

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